I don't think it's right to call Orion "selfish". He might be both reckless and naive, but he is also always trying to make a better world for EVERYONE, not just himself. He might not always make good choices, but he is always trying. Notably, he doesn't enter the Iacon race for personal glory, but to prove that even a lowly miner can be so much more, which is why he brings his brother along, so they can prove it together. A rather telling dialogue quirk is that when D-16 talks, he mostly uses the singular pronouns "I/me", but when Orion talks, he more often uses the plural pronouns "we/us". Megatron is an individualist, Optimus is a collectivist.
I can see your point, but I would also mention that Orion is selfish in his acts towards D-16 following their Transformation Cogs. Again, selfishness may not be inherently wrong, but he has to overcome it to grow into being selfless. What is one without the other? One cannot be selfless without first shedding selfishness
@@DeltaTrion: I'd be hard pressed to call anything Orion does after they get their cogs even remotely selfish. It's not selfish to see your best friend getting drunk on power and be worried that they are going down a dark path. Just because D-16 calls Orion selfish doesn't make it true, especially not when D-16 is the one who's entirely fixated on getting personal revenge on Sentinel, whereas Orion is the one who actually cares about liberating everyone else from Sentinel's tyranny.
Good point, but again, I think you’re taking my opinion of Orion growing from Selfish to Selfless as that being his only trait. Orion is not truly 100% selfish, but he does act selfishly in the film
@@DeltaTrion: I'm not trying to say he doesn't go through a character arc. I just don't think "selfish" is the right word for describing where that arc starts. Selfish would have been if his only concern was to get himself out of the mines, but right from the start his motivation is always the liberation of the entire mining caste. His methods might seem childishly naive and over simplistic, but that's also because he doesn't know the whole truth of why they are even an oppressed underclass to begin with. Orion absolutely matures throughout the film, both figuratively and literally, made all the more obvious when we see him with a cog towering over the still child-like miners. Sentinel steeling away their cogs before the came online didn't just rob them of the ability to transform, it stunted their growth and ability to fully actualize as adults. That's the character arc Orion goes through, he grows up.
@ gotcha. While I do understand your point better now, I do still think he has to start out being somewhat selfish in order to grow into Selflessness. He does act selflessly a lot throughout the movie, but his selfish actions cause problems for others. From those selfish actions, he learns that he must be more selfless in order to not harm those around him
When Orion gave his speech, he knelt on the same levels as his followers. In contrast to D16, when he gave his speech, he stood above everyone else. Simple visual storytelling but it’s a great foreshadowing what kind of leader each of them is gonna be.
Optimus Prime began life as a reckless rule-breaking troublemaker and turned into a selfless hero. While Megatron began life as an obedient rule-following model citizen and turned into a ruthless villain.
It's not just about their actions, but their motivations and goals. Yes, Orion is a reckless trouble makes, but he's always trying to help others and build a freer more equal Cybertron. Whereas D-16 is only obedient because he bought into Sentinel's lie that the only thing, he could ever be was lowly miner. Even before meeting the high guard, he's already fully indoctrinated into the belief that the weak serve while the strong rule, the only thing that changes for him is which of those two categories he considers himself part of.
@@EmeralBookwise Otion does drag D-16 in his problem while hoping to help others. Like continuely breaking into the archives to research where the matrix of leadership. D-16 does have a "me and mine" mindset. If it is not him or his friend apart of it then it not an issue to him and just follow the rules.
I like how all of Orion's “selfish” actions in the movie also stem from a selfless place - bro is constantly just trying to make things better for people and the miners, to beat the cogless racism; breaking into the archives, breaking protocol saving jazz, running the iacon race, tracking down the matrix - none of them are actions with selfish intentions
Orion breaking into the archives might be a little self-centered, insofar as it's a bit arrogantly presumptuous to think that he'd be uniquely capable of using the information stored there to find the matrix when no one else could... but that's not really the same as being selfish when the entire reason he's doing it is his strong desire to not just liberate himself from the mines, but every other cogless bot like him as well. Risking his own life to rescue Jazz is pretty much the least selfish thing anyone could ever do. It's not his fault that Darkwing was such an overbearing jerk that he demoted Elita for something that wasn't even her fault. Yeah, he did for D-16 into the race, but if D-16 really didn't want to participate he could have flown off the track at any time. Orion wasn't trying to hurt his friend, he was trying to help his inspire his friend, and it worked. When he thought they had a chance of winning, D-16 was so excited, and even after they lose, D-16 still admits it was fun just trying, and when D-16 is afraid they will be punished for it, Orion makes sure to try and take full responsibility when Sentinel show up. Even when Orion convinces D-16 to some with him to the surface by basically offering to let D-16 take all the credit if they find the Matrix. Orion was never in it for the fame or the glory, he only ever wanted to make life better for everyone.
I think he broke into the archive because he wanted to find out about Matrix of Leadership. Deep down he got sick of the bull of Sentinel not being able to track the matrix (well, what do you expect, revealing yourself to a horrible liar, fame-hungry prick and manipulator which you don't see worthy to be a leader?)
Orion's intentions weren't selfish, his narrow sight of how his actions would effect others was what made him selfish at the start. Breaking into the archives to gain knowledge to retrieve the matrix is noble, but he still broke a rule. Saving Jazz showed he is willing to risk his life to save others, but he brushed off the chance that Elita would be held responsible assuming only he would take the blame only for Elita to be (comedically timed) fired. He ran the Iacon race to inspire his miner peers, but he dragged D-16 with him and they were demoted to the lowest level of work (albeit by Sentinel lying through his grill about praising him). In short he's not cynical, self-centered or self absorbed. Orion's selfishness was only highlighted by if things go wrong, how it would effect only him. A slight tangent, when D-16 made the quote "That's the problem. You're only thinking about yourself." and "You just had to break protocol." It was him coming to frustration that his entire life, his devotions and civility was wasted on a big, fat lie.
The problem Optimus had back when he was Orion was lack of consideration for other people. That’s what partially turned D-16 into Megatron. Because Orion kept making plans involving other people without their input.
Yess exactly. Orion always had good intentions, but he's bad at respecting people's boundaries. Like, dragging D-16 to the race? I know people like to harp that "ooh but it worked out in the end, it led to good things, D-16 liked racing in the end", it doesn't detract from the fact it was a shitty thing to do. Imagine you've explicitly said you don't wanna do a thing, maybe bc it's too dangerous for you or you simply don't want to, and your friend STILL drags you into it - it's disrespectful at best and hurtful at worst. Heck, if a surgery is supposed to save your life, even doctors still has to respect your decision if you want to reject the surgery. Orion couldn't even respect Dee's No on minor things and it's little wonder why D-16 harbored resentment over time. And I did like that D-16 calling him out on his impetuous behavior led to Orion changing that later down the line - instead of dragging the miners into the fight, instead he talks to them properly and asks them for help. An earlier Orion wouldn't have done that.
@ajh22895 um...letting go and dropping him IS a betrayal of THE highest order. And killing Sentinel without THE PEOPLE'S permission was a betrayal because the people may not have wanted that at all. Everything was happening too fast, and then D-16 kills Sentinel.
@@ajh22895 It WAS betrayal, he dropped him off, "oh but he was trying to save sentinel", no he wasn't, he was trying to save D-16 from getting in a path that has no way back
Honestly just “Transformers Two” would be such a fire name for the sequel. I can’t write some massive essay about it, but it could symbolize how Optimus and Megatron are divided and infighting now-they’re split in “Two.”
I really liked how he contrasted d16 with regards to him being willing to give d16 the credit for finding the matrix for sentinel prime when it was his idea that he wanted for the good of his people
That was just a ploy to get D16 to do his thing. He spends the whole movie doing this. Flat out scamming him into doing the race. This culminates in a scene where he's ignoring D16's feelings on wanting to kill Sentinel and is willing to die to protect Sentinel just so things get done his way. He never stops being selfish, but his desires happen to align with Primus.
@@ajh22895Why is it that ppl villainize Orion stopping D-16 from killing Sentinel??? It’s so obvious it was never about Sentinel, it was about stopping D-16 from going to far
@@CoolMan12948 To be fair, this kind of problem happened to so many superheroes as well. They have no qualms killing nameless henchmen then start drawing the line of “killing is wrong” when it’s the main bad guy.
I like how Orion was flawed in this movie. We're already used to the seasoned hero we all know and love, but this is such a refreshing take on Optimus. Orion being a miner makes his origins more relatable and his road to Primacy more tragic, since Orion and D are in the same class. Orion can truly understand what D when through. This is not to disregard the previous interactions of OP. But I actually like his origins in this movie. Though Orion means well, he is so focused on what he wants that he fails to consider D's feelings (seen especially in their time in sub level 50 and when they discovered the truth). When D angerly told him that "he only thinks of himself". I didn't understand that sceen on my first watching. Thinking how Orion could be selfish when he's trying his best to find the matrix. Then I realized that D was actually more upset with the fact that his recklessness is what drags him into trouble. He got punched by Darkwing and got sent to sub level 50 because of Orion. Even if was unintentional on Orion's part. The cave scene is also significant because you can already see the contrast between D and Orion. Orion uses pronouns like 'we' and 'us'. He's less vengeful and he focused more on the bigger picture. Meanwhile D uses 'I' a lot and is more forecful and brutal. It's a subtle word choice, but it managed to make them stand out as characters. TF One makes you want to root for the both of them. I actually haven't finished watching your video as of writing, but after watching your D-16 video. I just had to gush about Orion lol. Keep up the good work!
You realize Pax was a dock worker back in G1, right? Pax's origins have always been from humble backgrounds that was raised up to Prime for his bravery and/or heroics.
In what way is him being a miner more relatable? Most people watching Transformers or buying the toys have never done that degree of hard labour in their lives.
My favorite character detail of Orion is that while he is reckless, he also shows that he is observant and quick on his feet when a plan changes. This is especially shown during the Iacon 5000, where he determines that the magnetic obstacle has the same pattern as the exhaust port. He's a very intelligent individual. He just needed to learn some self discipline.
Something I just noticed is that when D-16 fires his fusion cannon and mortally wounds Orion, his arm goes wildly upwards, as if he can't control the recoil of his weapon. It's such a small detail, but it has some vast implications for his character. He's not in control of his own power, he's not able to trust himself, he's not-- he's not as strong as he thinks he is. And that moment of realization is what sets his fall into Megatron in motion. For all of his life, D-16 has been concerned with the consequences of his actions. He constantly tries to figure out what will happen after something happens (i.e. "If we survive this, I will kill you", "We are going to be demoted", etc.) But the one thing I don't think he could ever predicting is that he might hurt his only real friend. He pleads and tries to understand how Orion could have done that, but he just... he just can't. And that, more than anything, breaks him. He's always been pulling Orion out of trouble, always thinking through what happens after "Another Orion Pax Master Plan", and seeing his friend not only throw himself in danger, but throw himself in danger at D-16 for someone as terrible as Sentinel Prime? That has to feel like the ultimate betrayal, but also the ultimate failure on D-16's part. He couldn't protect his friend from themselves. This, more than anything, cements his radicalization. "I'm done saving you" isn't just something he says to Orion, it's something he has to say to himself. He has tried his best to understand consequence, and he just can't anymore. So he gives up. He becomes reckless, because he has nothing to lose-- not his position in society, not his dead idol and the false Prime who killed him, and not his friend. Speaking of Orion, I appreciate that he is so selfish, so reckless, so impulsive, because that just makes the wisdom and humility of Optimus Prime understandable. Optimus Prime is everything D-16 would have wanted in a Prime, but D-16 is gone. Orion Pax may have looked up to Megatron with his incendiary and impulsive rhetoric, but Orion Pax is dormant. Orion was impulsive because he was tired of the system telling him what he could be and what he could do, but he never internalized the same level of self-hatred as D-16. Both were abused by the system, but one was able to grow past this, and the other was consumed by it. The two are perfect foils for each other in their character arcs.
Sentinel's cruelty created Megatron, who destroyed him. Megatron's rage created Optimus, who defeated him. Evil creates its own destruction, the only way anything can last is to break the cycle of revenge with optimism and kindness.
That's a much better way of putting it. Optimus didn't create Megatron, he was always trying to save his brother, at first from a life toiling in the mines, and later from going down the path of violent revenge. He always wanted a better life for everyone, including his brother. Even when circumstances drive them apart and Megatron becomes a danger to everyone else, Optimus only banishes him from Iacon, clearly still hoping his former brother can at least make a better life for himself on the surface.
I would say Optimus inadvertently and accidentally pushed d16 into the belief he was already headed towards but ultimately I would barely put Orion at fault
A really underrated aspect of Hemsworth’s Orion is that in the moments where he’s most acting most like the leader and hero we know, his performance shifts closer to Peter Cullen’s. It’s like that’s how he sounds when he’s projecting leadership. He sounds different one-on-one, but when he’s speaking as the leader of the autobots he has a different presence. It’s a great way to blend this Orion with classic Optimus.
18:05 In response to those "Megatron did nothing wrong" comments: I've been saying for a while now that it's a tad disturbing whenever someone says that a VILLAIN does nothing wrong and actually agrees with their methods. It makes me question their very character. Transformers One is a great example that just because you understand where a villain comes from does not mean they are right, especially when Orion came from the same background. D-16 had every right to feel upset about Sentinel's betrayal, but the way he went about it wrong, allowing rage to cloud his judgement and letting the darkness corrupt his soul, unlike Pax who was just as upset but still sought out justice, not vengeance. Just because you come from a terrible upbringing doesn't mean you don't have the choice to rise above and become something greater. That's why Primus gave Pax the Matrix, not D. Just a reminder of what differentiates a hero and a villain: a hero treats others the way he wishes to be treated; a villain treats others the way he was treated.
@@MrAwsomeness360 Said this twice and I will say it again. This is the danger that came from a sympathetic villain. Spending too much in their twisted mind can easily corrupt the audience’s minds to justify the villain’s actions simply because the audience feels “represented” by them. That’s why I love the Penguin. Just the villain being evil, not a sympathetic misunderstood guy with tragic life.
@@Kaijugan It means that if you cheer for a villain, I will question you as a person. I will question your character. I will question your entire personhood. It doesn't get any clearer than that.
I fear you missed the beauty of Orion's origins from the Aligned Continuity. The entire point was that he was basically an upper middle class bot (not the worst affected by the Caste system) but when confronted with the corruption and injustice plaguing society he didn't just accept it, he sought a way to fix it. He was just an average bot willing to take a stand because it's the right thing to do, and that's pretty inspiring. That's not to say the new origin in TFOne wasn't a good idea or that it wasn't executed well, it was, but your assessment of the Aligned origin (of which TFOne's is closest to) felt rather dismissive, more focused on the superficial appearance of it and not the actual substance behind it.
It's a simillar background to Batman's origin story, allthough not as extreme. Where someone of a higher position uses his resource to help those in the lower class because he doesn't want anyone to go through the pain that he experienced. The message being that you can take a stand against Injustice no matter what position you are in or the privilege you have.
While I can understand and appreciate the date clerk version of Optimus, I think TF1 does a better job of avoiding unfortunate implications that come with it. By making their origins the same, Megatron no longer really has any excuse for becoming a violent extremist. If Optimus endured all of the same indignities and was still able to rise above them, then it also demonstrates that Megatron has no one else to blame for becoming a monster except himself.
@EmeralBookwise there is a massive difference between excusing and giving reason to actions. Someone can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. I really enjoy the aligned continuity and the difference between prime and megatrons background as it does shape a lot of who they were. Prime got to live and learn, was able to see the bigger picture by spending all his time learning everything the data libraries giving him the belief that he can work through everything and may be able to fix everything, but he can't. While megatron was stuck in the mines later turned gladiator, seeing others die or having to kill them himself on the daily just to survive detached him from "cybermanity", disvalueing life in general. In many ways megatron is a tragic character as from his view he is entirely justified, he was robbed of optimism, he can't believe that things will get better by staying more or less the same, cybertronian society is a monument to his suffering and he can't handle it. The opposing view of people like Optimus don't matter to him as they don't know what it was like, they are all weak minded to him, unable to stray from what was before, and his has to might to make that change happen. He was a caged animal raised to be angry and strong and that's all he knows anymore, it's not surprising he went the way he did. In many ways megatron is more idealistic than Optimus just in a much more blunt way, he can't compromise, he can't work together, all he can do is fight until he is the last one standing, its been that way his whole life.
While I agree Orion is a bit naive and impetuous, I wouldn’t go so far to call it selfishness. Yeah, he got D into some escapades, but part of the reason he dragged him along was because D never had any real aspirations. He, like a lot of people who believed in the system, were only content with their station because it was the only way to cope with the situations they were in; like being abused by Darkwing. They were brainwashed into thinking it’s all they were good for, and like many victims of abuse, tell themselves it’s fine to avoid facing the reality of it. Orion got D that Megatronus sticker because he knew how much D idolized the guy and wanted to support his individual interests. To your point about D blaming Orion, D was the one thinking about himself and how Sentinel betrayed HIM, not his friends or all of Cybertron. He chose to blindly believe in Sentinel and could not take responsibility for this mistake and would rather blame Orion for taking him out of his ignorance. D was actually happy to go on the surface trip with him. Also, when D started taking charge, Orion was more concerned with D getting more aggressive with him and the others. He was genuinely scared of what D was becoming and tried to help him.
@@somdudewillson While I agree, and am not contesting Orion should have been more mindful of this, that is not what he was trying to do. D wanted to stay in line because that's what he was taught to do. Its all they knew and never questioned, so what they wanted was the same thing most people want: to stay in line and follow protocol in perceived comfort. If I were to offer a better way to describe Orion's flaws and arc: its the transition from impulsive naivety to responsible optimism. And lets not forget the truth is it was all a lie convincing them to be used by Sentinel. No matter how many times Darkwing abused them or left others to die, his only response was stay in line. Heck, when Jazz needed to be saved, Darkwing punished them for it even though Orion took responsibility for the incident. If everyone is just gonna accept that kind of treatment, then its very telling of society as a whole.
The message I take from Optimus' character arc is that overcoming naivety but still choosing to be an optimist afterwards is a valid (and often necessary) way to live. No matter how the world works and throws at us, we need to have ideals about how we want things to be. The medium of art is a reflection of that mentality. The idea that expressions of thoughts have a place in reality and must be encouraged. They don't need to have a materialistic form to have worth.
I think a better way to describe Orion Pax is "myopic" as opposed to selfish. A selfish person doesn't care how his actions affect others unless it can benefit him in some way, which most definitely does NOT describe Orion Pax. Rather, he has a certain naivete and impulsiveness that keeps him from seeing things from others' perspective, especially in the heat of the moment. He does legitimately mean well, but at this point in his life he still has a lot to learn about leadership, and unfortunately, sometimes the most effective way to learn an important lesson is through failure and suffering for that failure. He really began to take steps to correct this flaw by the time he returned to Iacon, and definitely seems to have grown beyond that by the end, albeit after unintentionally turning his best friend into his worst enemy.
Its funny that ironically Orion's own reasons of being selfish align into purely selfless motivations. He wants the other miners to be more respected and be seen as equal or deserving their rights of mutual respect and freedom, including himself and D. He wants to help find the Matrix not to be viewed as a hero, but to better help the people around him and all of Cybertron, to help Sentinel as he saw things back then. Hell he works his ass off in the mines enthusiastically to impress Elita and he's dedicated to his job despite it being a shitty and dangerous position. All of that and as others remark on the movie, goes on his life on a very optimistic view with others outside of D himself. Now that he didn't have to directly push his way through life as to earn the ability to transform, he immediately worried and went along with what Alpha Trion told him, because both knew everyone deserved to know what Sentinel had done. While Megatron's real goals and dreams aren't to just be respected, he wants to be at the top of Cybertron, to be next to Sentinel Prime and be just like him, to be just as strong and powerful as Megatronus was, that's exactly why he admired them, you don't ever hear someone speak of what kind of bot Megatronus was, only his strength thanks to Sentinel's change in society. And even funnier, he followed his life strictly to the system and rules wishing for one day he could reach that dream of looking below Cybetron, as I can interpret it. And because how else could he possibly get there without a cog or stirring commotion? He went on to achieve his goals on a very selfless ways, but now that he had the ability to transform and the power he previously wished for? He immediately stopped caring directly for others, he didn't really care about showing the rest of Cybertron what Sentinel had done, if anything he would've ditched Orion Elita and Bee and would've gone with the High Guard to kill Sentinel himself and potentially burn Iacon to the ground if not for Airachnid taking them to Sentinel.
Orion‘s recklessness isn’t selfishness. Selfishness would imply Orion’s actions are purely for self-gain whereas we know Orion isn’t that kind of person. Delta Trion consistently conflates recklessness and selfishness in this video.
@@tc3969Thank you for correcting me, at the start I kind of forgot the word so I had to use selfishness as both a replacement of the word and a way to gain the attention of those who do believe he was selfish to be explained otherwise.
That’s why I thought D-16 was the real selfish one. Or at least, more so than Orion in the respect that D put the blame almost completely on Orion when Sentinel and the Quintessons were the real epicenter of their problems. The fact that Jazz could have died in the mines was an immediate red flag of not only the societal corruption at hand, but also that D’s statement “nothing bad happens when you stay on protocol” is both very hypocritical and completely inaccurate.
@@SHaddad2377 Yeah. I found it strange that Elita was immediately blaming Orion for messing up when she was fired. Girl, one of your own men/subordinate almost died, lost a limb, and you're worried bout your promotion, not even acknowledging the fact that Orion did good (even tho he had to break protocol)?
Great video analysis my man. Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly excellent as Optimus Prime/Orion Pax, and it really shocked me how much range he has as an actor/voice actor since Im pretty sure this was one of Chris Hemsworth's first voice-acting roles (other than voicing Thor in the Disney+ Marvel What If animated series). Hemsworth really sounded like a young Peter Cullen, and Im glad he actually met with Peter to truly honour the character and what Peter has brought to the role by finding the best way to nail the voice but give his own spin on Optimus that feels original. I especially love his characterisation as it made more sense to make him a fellow miner than to make him a librarian, just like D-16 was. As you said, it makes their falling out more painful/meaningful and gives Orion/Optimus a better understanding to what it means to come from the lower class of society. I like how they made him this more rambunctious, hot-headed guy who's so ambitious to prove himself and make things better, albeit at the expense of getting himself and others like D-16 or Elita 1 into trouble. I liked how they chose to have him mature and grow up in the span of the movie to understand the weight of his moral responsibilities to make things better by exposing Sentinel's lies. This mission gives Orion a deeper understanding of how his reckless actions have consequences that he neglected to think about and how he's been unintentionally selfish, prioritising his ambitions over D-16's, which only added fuel to the ever-growing downfall of their friendship. Honestly, I just loved that they chose to make Orion the extroverted, reckless go-getter and make D-16 the introverted, simple, hard worker who believed in the system, two friends with juxtaposing values and beliefs, but both still cared for each other like brothers. That scene where Orion inspires the miners to fight back against Sentinel was so empowering and honestly my favourite scene of the movie because it really shows what kind of person Orion is I love the detail of Orion kneeling down at the miners' level because, unlike Sentinel, he was one of them and saw all of them as friends and family and inspiring all of them like a good father figure, which is everything Optimus Prime should be, a noble, hopeful, brave leader who's never afraid to be *strong enough to be gentle.* There's a great balance of Shakespearean tragedy and inspiring hope in Orion's ressurection as Optimus Prime. At the same time, Orion desperately tries to save D-16 from making a terrible mistake that he won't come back from, but is too late and has to pay the price. This only fuels D-16's mental breakdown, becoming Megatron as he lets go of the last shreds of his former self. Something I really hope they do in a potential sequel is that I hope they explore Optimus's feelings of unworthiness and his inner guilt over how he blames D-16 for driving him to become the tyrant he became. There's a lot of potential to really dive into how emotionally struggling and pressured Optimus is as the leader of Cybertron, guiding the Autobots to gain their independence from the Quintessons or have to come to terms with that Megatron will come for him. I can see them give Optimus this arc of having to face his feelings of imposter syndrome even though he's given everything to make Iacon better and gave Elita 1, Bee, and all the miners of Iacon a chance to have a purpose bigger than they ever could've dreamt. There is a lot of room to explore Optimus and give him a very compelling arc about the expectations of life and making sacrifices and choices that we can't control. Still, we must strive to do what is right, even choices that lead to a further drift from the people who we once knew as friends.
I’m honestly not surprised that Chris Hemsworth has a lot of range as an actor. Eapecially this year as he manage to play two different kinds of character types that is outside his usual acting range in brilliant made film that are sadly slept upon (the other being Furiosa).
That conclusion was so... rejuvenating to hear. Recently I made a huge mistake and broke the trust of one of my closest friends, and I fear that we're not going to be able to repair our friendship. Ever since, I've felt like such a fraud and the villain in our stories, but being reminded how Optimus grew from his own flaws and mistakes into a courageous and kind-hearted leader was exactly what I've needed to hear, to know that I'm not going down an irreparable path that I've wanted to avoid for so long. Thank you.
Sometimes I feel like Orion's development goes much more unnoticed than D-16's. When I saw the movie I immediately noticed D's development, but when I thought about the movie I couldn't help but think more about Orion. The character writing in this movie is amazing. 10:50 This was the scene that made me cry in the cinema (this video, for some reason, made me cry too).
That makes sense. D-16 underwent a major character change to become Megatron. Orion’s core character however didn’t change the same way D-16 did. His views, ideals and beliefs were challenged, but unlike D-16, Orion ends the film with his original character intact, albeit matured.
I mean, is there any reason that a live-action actor can't voice act just as well? Technically speaking it should be easier than live-action acting since you only need to use your voice instead of needing to alter your body language and expressions as required.
@@TheRedMan77 The latter. "During production on Transformers One, Cullen served as a consultant for Chris Hemsworth on getting the voice and mannerisms down.[7]" [7] "Transformers One News: Film is Testing Very Well and Peter Cullen Consulted Chris Hemsworth on Voice"
Decepticons: Betraying Starscream and following Megatron instead after he won the fight because they believe in “Strength of one bot over another”. Also Decepticons: Somehow are still loyal to Megatron after he got his ass kicked by Optimus. They kinda forgot about their own philosophy, huh?
This would make no sense with a surface-level reading, but the high guard wanted sentinal dead, and Megatron achieved that goal. To them, he is more of a leader than Optimus, because he actually got the job done.
The main reason is that, while Optimus beats Megatron, he doesn't do it to further the Decepticon cause and thus the conflict of interest makes him ineligible for usurping leadership. The Decepticon leader position is taken when another Cybertronian who wants to further the Decepticon cause defeats the previous leader as proof of strength to lead the cause better. So if you're not on board with the Deception agenda, the Deception rules don't apply to you.
14:31 an analysis of this scene I have seen on Tumblr that I agree with a lot is that Orion wasn’t actually expecting D to blast at Sentinel, or at least at himself, and was hoping to talk D down from killing Sentinel. You can really see the surprise in Orion’s face after he’s shot, as if he wasn’t expecting to be hit, that backs up this interpretation of Orion’s actions here.
I honestly love Chris hemsworths take, most of the takes are good for me! Peter cullen will always be optimus, but honestly its good were getting more then just him, in the most respectful way cullen has earned a retirement, for inspiring childhoods with his prime voice
What I'm surprised that Orion Pax and Elita-1 didn't have inbuilt weapons to manifest compared with D-16 who have a Fusion Cannon and B-127 wielding knife hands and arm cannons. Of course Orion Pax got an Energon Axe arm through the Matrix of Leadership as Optimus Prime.
I think bee having knives is to reflect his journey in hopeful sequels. Assuming he'll have similarities to other Bees, he'll be a scout wanting to be a warrior. my guess is that in the next movies bee will struggle in his role but his knives will require him to focus and choose a path where he can excel or something along those lines.
Orion does have mini-blasters in his truck mode, and it does seem like the group's bodies are still developing, with the upgrades showing themselves as needed. Maybe Elita didn't suddenly develop anything because she was a skilled enough fighter to not need them, at least not yet.
Some have suggested this hints at their original 'functions' if their T-Cogs hadn't been stripped out before their protoforms came online. D-16 might have been slated as a military machine as a nod to the G1 continuities origins of the Decepticons, while the Autobots had more mundane vehicle modes meant for work or pleasure.
I forgot for a second that B got weponds, but unlike D. Even when B went ham in the controll room, he still listened to those around him. Wich is impressive since he been pushed around alot. This movie writing and directing really is amazing.
I actually like both origins for optimus as 1. Hes a dude seeing beyond his class to help other and change what it means to be an Autobot. 2. He just a lowly guy trying to show everyone he and the miners can be so much more.
It’s sad watching these studios come down hard on these content creators who are just simply trying to praise their movies and push them out to a wider audience. I hope you win.
I think Orion's character growth in the beginning from an impetuous but bright eyed and hopeful young bot into the strong, but gentle Autobot leader makes some of his choices as Optimus make more sense in some stories. Not that this was intentional (at least yet), but it makes passing the torch to young leaders like Ultra Magnus (and eventually Hot Rod) in the 86 film, as well as Smokescreen in Transformers Prime even more meaningful. He sees past their stubbornness and impulsiveness for their real qualities as good leaders and good autobots. He sees himself in them in a way, and wants to nurture that.
It's a wasted opportunity for Peter Cullen to voice Primus and say *"ARISE OPTIMUS PRIME!"* when ascending Orion Pax with the reformed Matrix of Leadership.
I mean, that was Alpha Trion saying that I'm pretty sure. Unless you mean you wished Primus spoke in that scene, in which case I agree that would have kicked ass.
What hit me in the emo-guts was when Orion got shot by D-16, harkening back to the days where G1 Orion got shot by Megatron. The montage thereafter kinda gave me this impression that you shouldn't mess with other people and that your undoing comes from the unlikeliest of places, since just as D-16 turned into Megatron because of Sentinel Prime's a-holery, Orion turned into Optimus because of Megatron's a-holery. Heck, G1 Orion was a simple dock worker who admired Megatron's ability to fly and his innate rizz. He got fooled, it cost him his life, and Primus decided he's had enough of Megatron's a-holery, and gave him his "worst nightmare".
I wonder if Optimus Prime can access the other weapons of the Thirteen through the Matrix of Leadership aside Zeta's Energon Axe such as Prima's Star Saber, Megatronus' Requiem Blaster, and Solus's Forge Hammer for example. That would make Optimus truly a stronger enemy to Megatron who would find any means of getting stronger and have new weapons to beat him.
If they follow the lore from which the 13 Primes were inspired from (IDW/Aligned continuity) then yea. He will probably be able to use the Forge or other weapons of the Primes.
I would like to point out somethings, like the time Elita was fired, Orion was willing to take the fall, or the time that Sentinel came to talk to Orion and D-16, Orion thinking that they were in trouble was willing to take the fall. Even though the writers made Orion selfish, the selfish bot was showing that he cares for the bots he call friends an willing to do anything to protect them, and was willing to stand in front and protect the one he called brother.
I feel Orion more impulsive/ "act first think later" kind of guy. Not really selfish, more like he didn't think how his action affect people around him
I never saw Orion Pax as 'selfish' in the movie since he always seemed to want to help all the miners and improve their station on Cybertron, just reckless. He focuses on the goal, but does not plan out his methods. Part of him going from Orion to Optimus is learning to think over going on pure impulse
Ngl, on my first watch I was seeing Orion through D-16's eyes, I didn't like how Orion was reckless, trying to prove smth with a big dumb idea, dragging Dee into his shenanigans and also having Dee save his bumper most of the time, basically being that one "bad influence" friend that always gets into trouble. But on my second watch, it was quite clearer, Orion just wanted to help his fellow miners, like trying to locate and get the matrix for energon to flow again and so the miners wouldn't die from working so much, getting into the Iacon 5000 to prove that the miners can be as good as the bigger bots, and always using "we/us" as in Miners in general or as in Orion and D-16. "Selfish" is indeed quite a strong word to use, and after understanding why he was doing all of that, I don't think he was being selfish at all, especially when he seems to be always thinking and caring about his fellow miners. (Maybe he was a bit selfish with Dee, cuz he wasn't really thinking about the consequences of his ideas not working, and even knowing that Dee cared about his job, Orion still drags Dee into things, like the Iacon 5000).
Another point about the celebrity casting. People forget that one of the biggest draws of the 86 transformers movie was that all the new characters were voiced by then big name stars, with the main villain of the film being voiced by one of the greatest actors to ever grace the silver screen, the late great Orsen Wells, and id dare say no actor to play Unicron since has come close the bringing the screen presence that Wells did.
I wouldn't say Orion was selfish at all. Sure, He was very headstrong and reckless, but he worked the hardest to create positive social change in cybertron. Everything he did was because he wanted what was best for his people and wanted them to see that they were more than what they were born to do.
Awesome video analysis. I really love this version of Optimus Prime. One of the best written iterations I've seen. Chris Hemsworth's voice acting was a pleasant surprise since I was quite skeptical of his role, but the movie proved me wrong. He was phenomenal.
One of my favorite traits of Orion in this movie is how, despite his reckless tendencies, his always trying (even if he fails) to take accountability and reach a middle ground. He tries to defend Elita from Drakwing, then later accepts her terms for tagging along. He tries to tell Sentinel that D had nothing to do with them getting in the race. It’s those early hints of a leader who knows how to recognize his faults even if he didn’t exactly know how to fix them yet
This movie made me very emotional. Optimus Prime is a very important character to me. As much as I love the bayverse movies for what they are I will admit over the years Prime's character has slowly started to bother me. I grew up looking up to him, I even applied a lot of his core beliefs to my own life growing up. It's really silly to say that a giant fictional alien robot that turns into a semi-truck has shaped my moral compass growing but it's the truth. Good or bad, right or wrong. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
This is well analyzed and presented. However, I disagree rather strongly with several of your assertions. Orion Pax does start off somewhat rash, which he does need to grow beyond to be a good leader, but I would not go so far as to call him "selfish" and I absolutely do not agree that being "trouble" in an oppressive, unjust society is somehow purely a flaw to be overcome when it's the troublemakers that drive positive systemic change. Just because D-16 claims that Orion only thinks about himself does not make it objectively true. Orion is the one who from the very beginning was seeking a solution that would improve the lot of all the miners, not just himself, where D-16 would've been content to be a cog in the system forever. And I find it somewhat disingenuous that on the one hand you blame society for Megatron's crimes while on the other hand, you blame Orion for not conforming to that very same society just because being heroic brings negative consequences from a corrupt regime. Also, you place rather undue emphasis on "fixing his mistakes" when it comes to Optimus receiving the Matrix and the ending of the film when I did not get that impression at all. Primus granting Orion the Matrix is him validating Orion's choices and convictions. I'm not sure where you're getting "Primus wants Optimus to right his own wrongs" from that. Optimus is successfully reforming society by bringing back the flow of energon and returning the miners' cogs, thereby eliminating the discriminatory caste system for good, and defending his people from Cybertron's true enemies the Quintessons. He's not thinking about fighting Megatron. You seem to be framing civil war as inevitable, but that's from a meta perspective, not an in-universe one. It's Megatron who is fixated on tearing down Optimus and for what? It's Megatron who chooses to start the war, not Optimus. This all skirts a little too closely to blaming Orion/Optimus for Megatron's own decisions. Yes, Megatron is partially a product of the system. Yes, Orion did have a hand in shaping him. But that does not at all erase Megatron's culpability or the fact that regardless of whatever "influences," Megatron's choices are his own responsibility, no one else's.
Very well laid out points. D is responsible for his own actions yes, but, I would say that Orion is partly responsible for them by proxy. I’ve noticed a lot of comments only talking about how I call Orion Selfish, but not that I point out that he grows to be Selfless. Selfishness is not Orions only characteristic, but it is the one I am focusing on
@@DeltaTrion I appreciate your perspective and the structure you were going for in your video essay. I still have to disagree that Orion's arc is as clear cut as "growth from selfish to selfless" because I would not characterize Orion as even starting out selfish. Selfishness is more than just actions, it's a mindset describing one's motivations. And Orion's motivations are never selfish, from seeking the Matrix for the betterment of all to saving Jazz to being willing to accept the consequences when his own choices go awry and even to refusing to leave D-16 behind both before and during the Iacon 5000. These are all things he does not for his own benefit but to make life better for others. Does that mean that he always makes the best choices or that his actions always have the best outcomes? No, but that's still a different matter from whether he's selfish or not. And I would say he's incredibly selfless already from the very beginning. I do agree that he grows and matures to becomes more selfless over the course of the film and I don't disagree that he is capable of being selfish at times, because everyone is, but to say that he is "selfish" implies that selfishness is a major defining trait of his at any point in the movie, which I very much disagree with. To me, his arc isn't one where he's humbled into becoming a better person, because he never needed humbling. He just needed tempering. The world and people around us influence who we are, yes. But I believe that how we respond to them is still an active choice that we alone make. In the end, the buck stops with us. So no, I don't agree that Orion is at all responsible for D's actions, but I can understand why you and others might think otherwise. Thanks for replying!
@@arielleh.1413 Orion is not about “selfish to selfless” but about “reckless to responsible” Also, the whole “righting the wrong” thing about Orion gaining the Matrix, I think it’s less about Optimus and more about Megatron. Because D16’s first mistake was shooting Orion’s arm off then he chose to deliberately drop Orion to die. Now Orion was revived as Optimus and returned to the surface. This was D16’s second chance to “right his wrong”. Optimus told him that they could have built the future together. He literally offered D16 peace and what did D16 do? He went full Megatron and chose to attack Optimus like an unhinged psychopath anyway. The primes gave D16 a test and he failed. He’s now fully responsible for the incoming war.
Everytime I hear that story it gives me chills. Honestly it will be so sad when peter and Frank's time comes. Him,Frank, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are truly irreplaceable. They all truly embody their characters.
This Might be the Best Optimus Prime Version we have in a Long While, sure Peter Collin’s is Fantastic but Chris did a Fantastic Job with the Role as a Young Orion Pax, he Rebels on Protocol Yes however unlike D-16 who even in the Start of the Film he only believes in Himself and even more so when he finds out the Truth, Pax was breaking the Rules for a Better Future for Cybertron and it’s People embracing their Potential, even though he’s different from his other incarnations he’s extremely Accurate as Pax always searches for Knowledge like how other Orion Pax Versions was a Liberian and shows how Intelligent and Clever he is like how he has Quick Thinking in Escape from Danger or Fighting Against It, who he Enters and solved Solutions in that Race, how he Save Jazz and Bee, and how he took the Idea to Expose Sentinel when Airachnid said “I Can See Everything” giving him the Advantage, hell Chris took Notes from Peter Himself to Understand the Tone and Character Better as Peter said he’s going to voice Prime in Live Action Movies but he’s giving his Blessings to Someone Else in Animated Projects and I’m ok with that, also I never knew Cullins used that Quote “Strong Enough to be Gentle” His Brother gave to Construct how Optimus Prime will later Become 40 Years Ago until a Month after this Movie’s Release and now that Quote is Forever Stuck in Me Forever as a Great Leader will need to be Strong Enough to be Gentle to Their People, that’s both True Leadership and a Righteous Soul that we Don’t Fight to Defeat Our Enemies, We Fight to Protect Our Love Ones, that’s why it Hit Us so Hard when We Fail.
While this video is well made, I'm gonna have to disagree with some of your points. 1. Orion does disregard D's wishes and is a bit reckless, but he is trying to help his friend have dreams of his own. He even gets him a Megatronus Prime decal because he knows about D's love of him. 2. Primus didn't grant Orion Pax the Matrix to "fix past mistakes". No, he was granted the Matrix to protect Cybertron from the Quintessons and D, who just betrayed him, and more importantly, was gonna KILL MILLIONS because he hates Sentinel so much that he genuinely thinks those who dont agree with him are supporters of Sentinel. 3. Like MrAwesomeness360 points out, Just because you can understand where D comes from doesn't mean hes right. Other than that, great video. I can get how you see things your way, but I just wanted to point out these for others who see it another way.
On point 1 we agree. He’s not 100% selfish. Perhaps I over used the word in the video, but Orion has many redeeming qualities. But he does also have selfish tendencies. For point 2, I would argue that healing Cybertron and righting the past wrongs are closely tied together. Both can work together. Point 3 is something a lot of people mention. I’m not saying Megatron is right. I’m just saying you can understand where he comes from and what he does. You should check out my D-16 video for more on that
@DeltaTrion I've watched this and the D-16 video. I get what you are saying. It's just the way you put emphasis on certain phrases could give off that idea.
It´s incredible how good this movie is. The central plot is a perfect distillation of their many origin comics, flashbacks and novels. Iacon and Cybertron look amazing. The screen is populated by so many transformers it´s insane, and you can recognize dozens of them. It´s fanservice in all the ways it can be.
Urge to re-watch TFOne rising... Great work, as always! I think you're right on the money, having Pax and D-16 start off as part of the same social class really enhances the story once they become Optimus and Megatron, because the divergence comes down to personal choices rather than being lucky enough to be an archivist rather than a miner.
@@bradleyadams5252 Oreo Packs need the matrix of Sweetership in order to place order and freedom in all of Candytron, its alot more complicated than the feud you speak of. I'm sure along with his friend, Snicker 16 wouldn't make the situation worse.
I'd like to note (might be wrong) but D-16 is still in there he nearly cried when Prime Banished him, sure he still clouded by rage but he still has his emotions
I'm realy happy I found your channel cuz your analysis on this simple but effective character was really well done! I loved how you tied Orions growth and D-16's as a kind of tragedy! Keep it up, I would love to see more transformer stuff too!
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Orion being selfish because you can look at him dragging D-16 into doing shenanigans as a way for him to save D from an abusive relationship with the system.
Like some people here, to say that Orion was completely selfish might be a bit harsh, though I can definitely see it when it came to some of the decisions he made, but ultimately he did what the thought was best and wanted to help everyone, and even when some of his decisions backfired like when saving Jazz or the race he immediately stepped up to take the fall and responsibility. But I think that was the point that Orion was always good and kind, but he definitely was naive and didn’t consider the potential consequences of his actions, especially with that “don’t be like Sentinal” part like I think we can all agree that was a facepalm moment there
i think this one is one of my favorites versions of orion pax/optimus prime, same with this version of d-16/megatron, two sides of the same corruption where one chooses to try to fix things after being naive while the others chooses to burn it all down (as someone from a country with know corrupted leaders this is something that many of the people of my country would agree with), orion is good he reminds me of a class clown at the start a class clown that question things and grow into themselves once they realize how things can be fixed though the love i have for this version of optimus also comes from the fact i also love tfa optimus prime, their so similar on terms of how they grow while tfa optimus didnt start as orion it can be argue that his season 1 self is orion a leader that is too new in a war that is complicated at best i love these versions of optimus prime because their unique but they also show how anyone can become a prime how anyone can be better and work to be better no matter the mistakes they made in the past
I think the difference with violence between Megatron and Optimus is that violence and destruction are always Megatron's/D-16's first choice. D didn't HAVE to destroy that tracker bot, but he relished in his first kill which is somewhat (understandably so) appalling to both the audience and Orion. He didn't HAVE to almost choke Starscream out and blow his head off, but he did anyways. Megatron even says that's the last time he'll ever show mercy, which is very telling of his ideologies and his personality "Tear it down! All of it!!!" Meanwhile, Optimus/Orion only default to violence when the moment calls for it, like stopping Sentinel's forces so they could expose him or fighting Megatron himself to stop him from destroying Iacon. It's all the differences underneath that make the characters so deep and well-written in this movie.
Watching this movie also made me appreciate the original 1986 one more. Knowing Orion Pax's backstory and personality before growing into the role of Optimus Prime, well, it makes Hot Rod more likable and more understandable why he was chosen to become the new leader of the Autobots.
Orion drags D along to two things....the Iacon 5000, and then escaping sub-level 50. (And the latter D willingly went along with. It was only the race that he didn't know about ahead of time.) Orion snuck into the records building (to learn about the Matrix so he could help) alone. He didn't force anyone to help him save Jazz (who was in peril through no fault of Orion's). I'm sorry, but saying he was selfish goes beyond what we see.
@@DeltaTrion “We” the audience. We’re all shown the same scenes, the same dialogue, but some of the conclusions you draw in this video just don’t line up with what we’re shown in the film.
@@tc3969 right but I am an audience member too. I interpreted the scenes differently. And some do agree with me. But let’s just stick to our own personal opinions rather than pushing a narrative of a “we” vs one person. Don’t neglect those that agree with me. Plenty of people on both sides
@ I respect your opinions and the work you’ve put into your TF One videos, but I can’t really get onboard with this one. You talk a lot about moments where Orion’s actions have negative consequences for other characters, and frame these moments as Orion being selfish. But this ignores the fact that Orion isn’t motivated by self-interest or personal gain. Sure, he can be reckless and inconsiderate, but he never displays the level of ego-centrism you would expect to see in somebody you would describe as selfish.
I love the line D-16 gives Optimus “you’re never thinking about anything else just yourself” because When D tells him this, it’s during a time when Orion was still a little selfish, but means well. When D goes to shoot Sentinel, Orion immediately thinks about what he’s going to do and at that moment decides to take the shot for Sentinel. He still thinks of what he’s going to do, but in a selfless way.
I also want to point out that Orion first checks on D after killing the Tracker once Orion starts laughing hysterically Also, funny enough, in G1 it is MEGATRON who ends up creating Optimus, versus Orion leading to the creation of Megatron and Optimus Prime by dragging D-16 into the Iacon 5000. Of course, G1 Megatron is basically Sentinel Prime in his character - an opportunistic, self serving despot who craves to be in charge of everything. He just also has greater ambition than Sentinel than being merely king of an underground city. D16 would despise this Megatron... but will he end up becoming just like him? We shall see.
I grew up with Optimus, but I've learned that it's those who broke rules and convention that are the most interesting, and can have the best perspective. So, I really like this version of Optimus. If makes his character more interesting.
orion for me embodies the right for citizen who always question and thought deeply about the ruler of his kin while d16 is a gear in the system just blindly putting trust in things he think is good honestly if d16 didn't go with pax discovering the truth he would never question his existent in the mines but when he knows the truth he's a gear that broke off from the cycles and decided to no longer follow anybody but his own self desire and being right which compare to real life world leader who have the same mindset already said alot about what megs about to do in the future movies(crossing my finger on the trilogy happening)
17 17 He shares his power with his friends whom he keeps next to him while Megatron keeps his subordinates at bay taking all the power for himself, afraid of being betrayed. It all had to happen like it did. They were the opposites. Always were. Always will be. 'Till all are 1.
megatron wanted revenge as a form of justice. Orion wanted sentinel to live as a form of judicial justice. TRUE justice. Murder is not justice. Sentinel cannot die until he has faced consequences for his actions. That is how I perceive the differences of their forms of justice
orion was not selfish i mean he is he's trying to prove something but when him d elita and b found out about what sentinel prime did he's no longer that selfish bot that hope slowly making him into optimus prime
You can be selfless in motive and intention but selfish in mind and action. Orion initially never really took what other bots wanted into consideration. He wished only the best for everyone but was blinded by what he thought everyone needed that he didn't see how the consequences of his actions would affect those around him until, in D-16's case, it was too late. I think that's what Delta Trion meant when calling Orion selfish.
@@XionTyran It’s less of being selfish and more of being reckless. Plus Orion and everyone else were slaves so it’s normal for a slave like him to want freedom.
2:57 TF Animated 100% needed a different voice for Optimus, because that version of Optimus is so different from the others. He's not the Autobot leader, nor is he as wise etc.
Animated Prime is probably my favorite iteration of Optimus next to the OG and Optimus Primal, Animated Optimus feels so relatable BECAUSE he's basically a space janitor forced into a position of leadership (I could go on for hours about why I love the character writing in Animated)
Another really great video on the Transformers One characters. I’ve got to say, I’m really looking forward to your Elita One video. I can’t say she was my favorite upon my first watching of the film. I saw her as too cocky and didn’t like the way she talked down to everyone even as they tried to help her or (especially) when she was trying to help them. But I still feel like there is more to her character and I’m interested to get another perspective on the character and see how she is more than meets the eye.
I Personally didn't Mind Chris Hemsworth's Vocal Performance as Orion/Optimus, (He was Decent imo) But You Know what would've made This Version of Optimus Extra Peak? if He was Voiced by *Keith David.* Like Seriously, HOW TF has That Casting Not Happened Yet? Lol
I don't think it's right to call Orion "selfish". He might be both reckless and naive, but he is also always trying to make a better world for EVERYONE, not just himself. He might not always make good choices, but he is always trying. Notably, he doesn't enter the Iacon race for personal glory, but to prove that even a lowly miner can be so much more, which is why he brings his brother along, so they can prove it together.
A rather telling dialogue quirk is that when D-16 talks, he mostly uses the singular pronouns "I/me", but when Orion talks, he more often uses the plural pronouns "we/us". Megatron is an individualist, Optimus is a collectivist.
I can see your point, but I would also mention that Orion is selfish in his acts towards D-16 following their Transformation Cogs. Again, selfishness may not be inherently wrong, but he has to overcome it to grow into being selfless. What is one without the other? One cannot be selfless without first shedding selfishness
@@DeltaTrion: I'd be hard pressed to call anything Orion does after they get their cogs even remotely selfish. It's not selfish to see your best friend getting drunk on power and be worried that they are going down a dark path.
Just because D-16 calls Orion selfish doesn't make it true, especially not when D-16 is the one who's entirely fixated on getting personal revenge on Sentinel, whereas Orion is the one who actually cares about liberating everyone else from Sentinel's tyranny.
Good point, but again, I think you’re taking my opinion of Orion growing from Selfish to Selfless as that being his only trait. Orion is not truly 100% selfish, but he does act selfishly in the film
@@DeltaTrion: I'm not trying to say he doesn't go through a character arc. I just don't think "selfish" is the right word for describing where that arc starts.
Selfish would have been if his only concern was to get himself out of the mines, but right from the start his motivation is always the liberation of the entire mining caste. His methods might seem childishly naive and over simplistic, but that's also because he doesn't know the whole truth of why they are even an oppressed underclass to begin with.
Orion absolutely matures throughout the film, both figuratively and literally, made all the more obvious when we see him with a cog towering over the still child-like miners. Sentinel steeling away their cogs before the came online didn't just rob them of the ability to transform, it stunted their growth and ability to fully actualize as adults.
That's the character arc Orion goes through, he grows up.
@ gotcha. While I do understand your point better now, I do still think he has to start out being somewhat selfish in order to grow into Selflessness. He does act selflessly a lot throughout the movie, but his selfish actions cause problems for others. From those selfish actions, he learns that he must be more selfless in order to not harm those around him
When Orion gave his speech, he knelt on the same levels as his followers.
In contrast to D16, when he gave his speech, he stood above everyone else.
Simple visual storytelling but it’s a great foreshadowing what kind of leader each of them is gonna be.
@@nont18411 wonderful observation.
@@DeltaTrion And when Sentinel kneel to the Quintessons, everyone (both Cogged and Cogless together) in Iacon turned against him.
@@TheWarmachine375to be fair, the Quintessons were the original reason why they were no longer on the surface, no?
@@leeseth Basically!
Orion was so genuine in that moment. That was one of his best inspirational speeches in the whole franchise and he’s not even a prime yet
Optimus Prime began life as a reckless rule-breaking troublemaker and turned into a selfless hero. While Megatron began life as an obedient rule-following model citizen and turned into a ruthless villain.
The Irony
He was anything BUT a slacker. He worked HARD to learn about his people and their history.
Fixed it.
It's not just about their actions, but their motivations and goals. Yes, Orion is a reckless trouble makes, but he's always trying to help others and build a freer more equal Cybertron.
Whereas D-16 is only obedient because he bought into Sentinel's lie that the only thing, he could ever be was lowly miner. Even before meeting the high guard, he's already fully indoctrinated into the belief that the weak serve while the strong rule, the only thing that changes for him is which of those two categories he considers himself part of.
@@EmeralBookwise Otion does drag D-16 in his problem while hoping to help others. Like continuely breaking into the archives to research where the matrix of leadership.
D-16 does have a "me and mine" mindset. If it is not him or his friend apart of it then it not an issue to him and just follow the rules.
I like how all of Orion's “selfish” actions in the movie also stem from a selfless place - bro is constantly just trying to make things better for people and the miners, to beat the cogless racism; breaking into the archives, breaking protocol saving jazz, running the iacon race, tracking down the matrix - none of them are actions with selfish intentions
I was gonna say bro wasn't even that selfish, only thinking about his intentions, but some of his actions were pretty much like that.
Orion breaking into the archives might be a little self-centered, insofar as it's a bit arrogantly presumptuous to think that he'd be uniquely capable of using the information stored there to find the matrix when no one else could... but that's not really the same as being selfish when the entire reason he's doing it is his strong desire to not just liberate himself from the mines, but every other cogless bot like him as well.
Risking his own life to rescue Jazz is pretty much the least selfish thing anyone could ever do. It's not his fault that Darkwing was such an overbearing jerk that he demoted Elita for something that wasn't even her fault.
Yeah, he did for D-16 into the race, but if D-16 really didn't want to participate he could have flown off the track at any time. Orion wasn't trying to hurt his friend, he was trying to help his inspire his friend, and it worked. When he thought they had a chance of winning, D-16 was so excited, and even after they lose, D-16 still admits it was fun just trying, and when D-16 is afraid they will be punished for it, Orion makes sure to try and take full responsibility when Sentinel show up.
Even when Orion convinces D-16 to some with him to the surface by basically offering to let D-16 take all the credit if they find the Matrix. Orion was never in it for the fame or the glory, he only ever wanted to make life better for everyone.
I think he broke into the archive because he wanted to find out about Matrix of Leadership. Deep down he got sick of the bull of Sentinel not being able to track the matrix (well, what do you expect, revealing yourself to a horrible liar, fame-hungry prick and manipulator which you don't see worthy to be a leader?)
Orion's intentions weren't selfish, his narrow sight of how his actions would effect others was what made him selfish at the start. Breaking into the archives to gain knowledge to retrieve the matrix is noble, but he still broke a rule. Saving Jazz showed he is willing to risk his life to save others, but he brushed off the chance that Elita would be held responsible assuming only he would take the blame only for Elita to be (comedically timed) fired. He ran the Iacon race to inspire his miner peers, but he dragged D-16 with him and they were demoted to the lowest level of work (albeit by Sentinel lying through his grill about praising him). In short he's not cynical, self-centered or self absorbed. Orion's selfishness was only highlighted by if things go wrong, how it would effect only him. A slight tangent, when D-16 made the quote "That's the problem. You're only thinking about yourself." and "You just had to break protocol." It was him coming to frustration that his entire life, his devotions and civility was wasted on a big, fat lie.
@@ajenecummings409his intentions were selfless but the way in which he implicated others in his plans certainly was selfish.
THE AGE OF WAITING IS OVER.
COME WITH ME, AND YOU WILL NEVER BE WITHOUT A DELTA TRION VIDEO AGAIN!
Goated pfp
@ Why thank you! It’s only logical, don’t you think?
@@Mr.G-0971 Only the most logical!
(It's my current PFP on discord so I got a bit of a start when I thought I saw myself commenting)
@@purplezekrom Really? Weird coincidence I guess!
WAAAKE UUUUP!!!!
The problem Optimus had back when he was Orion was lack of consideration for other people. That’s what partially turned D-16 into Megatron. Because Orion kept making plans involving other people without their input.
Yess exactly. Orion always had good intentions, but he's bad at respecting people's boundaries. Like, dragging D-16 to the race? I know people like to harp that "ooh but it worked out in the end, it led to good things, D-16 liked racing in the end", it doesn't detract from the fact it was a shitty thing to do. Imagine you've explicitly said you don't wanna do a thing, maybe bc it's too dangerous for you or you simply don't want to, and your friend STILL drags you into it - it's disrespectful at best and hurtful at worst. Heck, if a surgery is supposed to save your life, even doctors still has to respect your decision if you want to reject the surgery. Orion couldn't even respect Dee's No on minor things and it's little wonder why D-16 harbored resentment over time. And I did like that D-16 calling him out on his impetuous behavior led to Orion changing that later down the line - instead of dragging the miners into the fight, instead he talks to them properly and asks them for help. An earlier Orion wouldn't have done that.
Yeah, and he never stops doing this. Note when he defeats Megatron, he accuses him of betrayal. Because Megatron did not do things his way.
@ajh22895 um...letting go and dropping him IS a betrayal of THE highest order. And killing Sentinel without THE PEOPLE'S permission was a betrayal because the people may not have wanted that at all. Everything was happening too fast, and then D-16 kills Sentinel.
@@ajh22895 It WAS betrayal, he dropped him off, "oh but he was trying to save sentinel", no he wasn't, he was trying to save D-16 from getting in a path that has no way back
@@davidawilliams252 Oh right, he should have picked him up and given him another chance to save Sentinel.
Honestly just “Transformers Two” would be such a fire name for the sequel. I can’t write some massive essay about it, but it could symbolize how Optimus and Megatron are divided and infighting now-they’re split in “Two.”
Until all are one.
One shal rise. And and one shal fall.
so, like, from synced brothers as in "One" to enemies as in split in "Two."
Right In Two? TOOL???
One Shall stand... and *one* shall fall
Transformers One
Transformers One Shall Rise
Transformers One Shall Fall
It would make too much sense to do it like that
I really liked how he contrasted d16 with regards to him being willing to give d16 the credit for finding the matrix for sentinel prime when it was his idea that he wanted for the good of his people
That was just a ploy to get D16 to do his thing. He spends the whole movie doing this. Flat out scamming him into doing the race. This culminates in a scene where he's ignoring D16's feelings on wanting to kill Sentinel and is willing to die to protect Sentinel just so things get done his way. He never stops being selfish, but his desires happen to align with Primus.
@ajh22895 I don't think getting in between d and sentinel and getting killed in the process is selfish but okay 🤷
@@ajh22895Why is it that ppl villainize Orion stopping D-16 from killing Sentinel??? It’s so obvious it was never about Sentinel, it was about stopping D-16 from going to far
@@ajh22895pax only got in the way because he believes killing isn't right
@@CoolMan12948 To be fair, this kind of problem happened to so many superheroes as well. They have no qualms killing nameless henchmen then start drawing the line of “killing is wrong” when it’s the main bad guy.
I like how Orion was flawed in this movie. We're already used to the seasoned hero we all know and love, but this is such a refreshing take on Optimus.
Orion being a miner makes his origins more relatable and his road to Primacy more tragic, since Orion and D are in the same class. Orion can truly understand what D when through. This is not to disregard the previous interactions of OP. But I actually like his origins in this movie.
Though Orion means well, he is so focused on what he wants that he fails to consider D's feelings (seen especially in their time in sub level 50 and when they discovered the truth).
When D angerly told him that "he only thinks of himself". I didn't understand that sceen on my first watching. Thinking how Orion could be selfish when he's trying his best to find the matrix.
Then I realized that D was actually more upset with the fact that his recklessness is what drags him into trouble. He got punched by Darkwing and got sent to sub level 50 because of Orion. Even if was unintentional on Orion's part.
The cave scene is also significant because you can already see the contrast between D and Orion.
Orion uses pronouns like 'we' and 'us'. He's less vengeful and he focused more on the bigger picture. Meanwhile D uses 'I' a lot and is more forecful and brutal.
It's a subtle word choice, but it managed to make them stand out as characters. TF One makes you want to root for the both of them.
I actually haven't finished watching your video as of writing, but after watching your D-16 video. I just had to gush about Orion lol.
Keep up the good work!
You realize Pax was a dock worker back in G1, right? Pax's origins have always been from humble backgrounds that was raised up to Prime for his bravery and/or heroics.
@@leoncoben6983 I think in one comic Orion Pax was a police officer, but your point still stands.
In what way is him being a miner more relatable? Most people watching Transformers or buying the toys have never done that degree of hard labour in their lives.
My favorite character detail of Orion is that while he is reckless, he also shows that he is observant and quick on his feet when a plan changes. This is especially shown during the Iacon 5000, where he determines that the magnetic obstacle has the same pattern as the exhaust port. He's a very intelligent individual. He just needed to learn some self discipline.
He is just like me fr
Im literally optimus
Hey I remember you. You're the giy who makes those TFONE character compilations
Magnetic obstacle? What?
Something I just noticed is that when D-16 fires his fusion cannon and mortally wounds Orion, his arm goes wildly upwards, as if he can't control the recoil of his weapon. It's such a small detail, but it has some vast implications for his character. He's not in control of his own power, he's not able to trust himself, he's not-- he's not as strong as he thinks he is. And that moment of realization is what sets his fall into Megatron in motion.
For all of his life, D-16 has been concerned with the consequences of his actions. He constantly tries to figure out what will happen after something happens (i.e. "If we survive this, I will kill you", "We are going to be demoted", etc.)
But the one thing I don't think he could ever predicting is that he might hurt his only real friend. He pleads and tries to understand how Orion could have done that, but he just... he just can't.
And that, more than anything, breaks him. He's always been pulling Orion out of trouble, always thinking through what happens after "Another Orion Pax Master Plan", and seeing his friend not only throw himself in danger, but throw himself in danger at D-16 for someone as terrible as Sentinel Prime? That has to feel like the ultimate betrayal, but also the ultimate failure on D-16's part. He couldn't protect his friend from themselves. This, more than anything, cements his radicalization. "I'm done saving you" isn't just something he says to Orion, it's something he has to say to himself. He has tried his best to understand consequence, and he just can't anymore. So he gives up. He becomes reckless, because he has nothing to lose-- not his position in society, not his dead idol and the false Prime who killed him, and not his friend.
Speaking of Orion, I appreciate that he is so selfish, so reckless, so impulsive, because that just makes the wisdom and humility of Optimus Prime understandable. Optimus Prime is everything D-16 would have wanted in a Prime, but D-16 is gone. Orion Pax may have looked up to Megatron with his incendiary and impulsive rhetoric, but Orion Pax is dormant. Orion was impulsive because he was tired of the system telling him what he could be and what he could do, but he never internalized the same level of self-hatred as D-16. Both were abused by the system, but one was able to grow past this, and the other was consumed by it.
The two are perfect foils for each other in their character arcs.
Very insightful.
TEXAS
Sentinel's cruelty created Megatron, who destroyed him. Megatron's rage created Optimus, who defeated him. Evil creates its own destruction, the only way anything can last is to break the cycle of revenge with optimism and kindness.
That's a much better way of putting it. Optimus didn't create Megatron, he was always trying to save his brother, at first from a life toiling in the mines, and later from going down the path of violent revenge. He always wanted a better life for everyone, including his brother.
Even when circumstances drive them apart and Megatron becomes a danger to everyone else, Optimus only banishes him from Iacon, clearly still hoping his former brother can at least make a better life for himself on the surface.
Optimist Prime
I would say Optimus inadvertently and accidentally pushed d16 into the belief he was already headed towards but ultimately I would barely put Orion at fault
A really underrated aspect of Hemsworth’s Orion is that in the moments where he’s most acting most like the leader and hero we know, his performance shifts closer to Peter Cullen’s.
It’s like that’s how he sounds when he’s projecting leadership. He sounds different one-on-one, but when he’s speaking as the leader of the autobots he has a different presence. It’s a great way to blend this Orion with classic Optimus.
indeed.
18:05 In response to those "Megatron did nothing wrong" comments: I've been saying for a while now that it's a tad disturbing whenever someone says that a VILLAIN does nothing wrong and actually agrees with their methods. It makes me question their very character. Transformers One is a great example that just because you understand where a villain comes from does not mean they are right, especially when Orion came from the same background. D-16 had every right to feel upset about Sentinel's betrayal, but the way he went about it wrong, allowing rage to cloud his judgement and letting the darkness corrupt his soul, unlike Pax who was just as upset but still sought out justice, not vengeance. Just because you come from a terrible upbringing doesn't mean you don't have the choice to rise above and become something greater. That's why Primus gave Pax the Matrix, not D.
Just a reminder of what differentiates a hero and a villain: a hero treats others the way he wishes to be treated; a villain treats others the way he was treated.
@@MrAwsomeness360 Said this twice and I will say it again. This is the danger that came from a sympathetic villain. Spending too much in their twisted mind can easily corrupt the audience’s minds to justify the villain’s actions simply because the audience feels “represented” by them.
That’s why I love the Penguin. Just the villain being evil, not a sympathetic misunderstood guy with tragic life.
The penguin was a bit too sympathetic and Vic paid for it
Comment of the century. ❤️🤖💙
“Question their personhood” what kind of a phrase is that?
@@Kaijugan It means that if you cheer for a villain, I will question you as a person. I will question your character. I will question your entire personhood.
It doesn't get any clearer than that.
The tribute to Captain Larry Cullen is something that makes me smile with respect.❤
I fear you missed the beauty of Orion's origins from the Aligned Continuity.
The entire point was that he was basically an upper middle class bot (not the worst affected by the Caste system) but when confronted with the corruption and injustice plaguing society he didn't just accept it, he sought a way to fix it. He was just an average bot willing to take a stand because it's the right thing to do, and that's pretty inspiring.
That's not to say the new origin in TFOne wasn't a good idea or that it wasn't executed well, it was, but your assessment of the Aligned origin (of which TFOne's is closest to) felt rather dismissive, more focused on the superficial appearance of it and not the actual substance behind it.
It's a simillar background to Batman's origin story, allthough not as extreme. Where someone of a higher position uses his resource to help those in the lower class because he doesn't want anyone to go through the pain that he experienced.
The message being that you can take a stand against Injustice no matter what position you are in or the privilege you have.
While I can understand and appreciate the date clerk version of Optimus, I think TF1 does a better job of avoiding unfortunate implications that come with it.
By making their origins the same, Megatron no longer really has any excuse for becoming a violent extremist. If Optimus endured all of the same indignities and was still able to rise above them, then it also demonstrates that Megatron has no one else to blame for becoming a monster except himself.
@EmeralBookwise there is a massive difference between excusing and giving reason to actions. Someone can do the wrong thing for the right reasons. I really enjoy the aligned continuity and the difference between prime and megatrons background as it does shape a lot of who they were. Prime got to live and learn, was able to see the bigger picture by spending all his time learning everything the data libraries giving him the belief that he can work through everything and may be able to fix everything, but he can't. While megatron was stuck in the mines later turned gladiator, seeing others die or having to kill them himself on the daily just to survive detached him from "cybermanity", disvalueing life in general. In many ways megatron is a tragic character as from his view he is entirely justified, he was robbed of optimism, he can't believe that things will get better by staying more or less the same, cybertronian society is a monument to his suffering and he can't handle it. The opposing view of people like Optimus don't matter to him as they don't know what it was like, they are all weak minded to him, unable to stray from what was before, and his has to might to make that change happen. He was a caged animal raised to be angry and strong and that's all he knows anymore, it's not surprising he went the way he did. In many ways megatron is more idealistic than Optimus just in a much more blunt way, he can't compromise, he can't work together, all he can do is fight until he is the last one standing, its been that way his whole life.
The way Chris Hemsworth delivered “You betrayed… me.” was genuinely great.
While I agree Orion is a bit naive and impetuous, I wouldn’t go so far to call it selfishness. Yeah, he got D into some escapades, but part of the reason he dragged him along was because D never had any real aspirations. He, like a lot of people who believed in the system, were only content with their station because it was the only way to cope with the situations they were in; like being abused by Darkwing. They were brainwashed into thinking it’s all they were good for, and like many victims of abuse, tell themselves it’s fine to avoid facing the reality of it.
Orion got D that Megatronus sticker because he knew how much D idolized the guy and wanted to support his individual interests.
To your point about D blaming Orion, D was the one thinking about himself and how Sentinel betrayed HIM, not his friends or all of Cybertron. He chose to blindly believe in Sentinel and could not take responsibility for this mistake and would rather blame Orion for taking him out of his ignorance. D was actually happy to go on the surface trip with him.
Also, when D started taking charge, Orion was more concerned with D getting more aggressive with him and the others. He was genuinely scared of what D was becoming and tried to help him.
This!!! Your comment is THE ONE!!! So on point. Love it.
Insisting that your own idea of what others should want (or 'aspire to') is more important than their actual wants _is_ selfishness.
@@somdudewillson While I agree, and am not contesting Orion should have been more mindful of this, that is not what he was trying to do. D wanted to stay in line because that's what he was taught to do. Its all they knew and never questioned, so what they wanted was the same thing most people want: to stay in line and follow protocol in perceived comfort. If I were to offer a better way to describe Orion's flaws and arc: its the transition from impulsive naivety to responsible optimism.
And lets not forget the truth is it was all a lie convincing them to be used by Sentinel. No matter how many times Darkwing abused them or left others to die, his only response was stay in line. Heck, when Jazz needed to be saved, Darkwing punished them for it even though Orion took responsibility for the incident. If everyone is just gonna accept that kind of treatment, then its very telling of society as a whole.
The message I take from Optimus' character arc is that overcoming naivety but still choosing to be an optimist afterwards is a valid (and often necessary) way to live. No matter how the world works and throws at us, we need to have ideals about how we want things to be.
The medium of art is a reflection of that mentality. The idea that expressions of thoughts have a place in reality and must be encouraged. They don't need to have a materialistic form to have worth.
Literally put my thoughts into words! Absolutely brilliant!
When Ratchet said that Orion Pax was like Jack Darby, he wasn't kidding.
That's from a different continuity though
@@justalurker13 I think it still technically applies from a thematic standpoint.
@@astralboyo how? They are nothing alike at all.
@@davidawilliams252 Well, both characters got picked on and wished for something more in the beginning, didn't they?
@astralboyo Probably because Jack didn't want anything to do with the Autobots while Orion wanted to show everyone his potential
I think a better way to describe Orion Pax is "myopic" as opposed to selfish. A selfish person doesn't care how his actions affect others unless it can benefit him in some way, which most definitely does NOT describe Orion Pax. Rather, he has a certain naivete and impulsiveness that keeps him from seeing things from others' perspective, especially in the heat of the moment. He does legitimately mean well, but at this point in his life he still has a lot to learn about leadership, and unfortunately, sometimes the most effective way to learn an important lesson is through failure and suffering for that failure. He really began to take steps to correct this flaw by the time he returned to Iacon, and definitely seems to have grown beyond that by the end, albeit after unintentionally turning his best friend into his worst enemy.
Its funny that ironically Orion's own reasons of being selfish align into purely selfless motivations. He wants the other miners to be more respected and be seen as equal or deserving their rights of mutual respect and freedom, including himself and D. He wants to help find the Matrix not to be viewed as a hero, but to better help the people around him and all of Cybertron, to help Sentinel as he saw things back then. Hell he works his ass off in the mines enthusiastically to impress Elita and he's dedicated to his job despite it being a shitty and dangerous position. All of that and as others remark on the movie, goes on his life on a very optimistic view with others outside of D himself. Now that he didn't have to directly push his way through life as to earn the ability to transform, he immediately worried and went along with what Alpha Trion told him, because both knew everyone deserved to know what Sentinel had done.
While Megatron's real goals and dreams aren't to just be respected, he wants to be at the top of Cybertron, to be next to Sentinel Prime and be just like him, to be just as strong and powerful as Megatronus was, that's exactly why he admired them, you don't ever hear someone speak of what kind of bot Megatronus was, only his strength thanks to Sentinel's change in society. And even funnier, he followed his life strictly to the system and rules wishing for one day he could reach that dream of looking below Cybetron, as I can interpret it. And because how else could he possibly get there without a cog or stirring commotion? He went on to achieve his goals on a very selfless ways, but now that he had the ability to transform and the power he previously wished for? He immediately stopped caring directly for others, he didn't really care about showing the rest of Cybertron what Sentinel had done, if anything he would've ditched Orion Elita and Bee and would've gone with the High Guard to kill Sentinel himself and potentially burn Iacon to the ground if not for Airachnid taking them to Sentinel.
Orion‘s recklessness isn’t selfishness. Selfishness would imply Orion’s actions are purely for self-gain whereas we know Orion isn’t that kind of person. Delta Trion consistently conflates recklessness and selfishness in this video.
@@tc3969Thank you for correcting me, at the start I kind of forgot the word so I had to use selfishness as both a replacement of the word and a way to gain the attention of those who do believe he was selfish to be explained otherwise.
Great analisis.
That’s why I thought D-16 was the real selfish one. Or at least, more so than Orion in the respect that D put the blame almost completely on Orion when Sentinel and the Quintessons were the real epicenter of their problems. The fact that Jazz could have died in the mines was an immediate red flag of not only the societal corruption at hand, but also that D’s statement “nothing bad happens when you stay on protocol” is both very hypocritical and completely inaccurate.
@@SHaddad2377 Yeah.
I found it strange that Elita was immediately blaming Orion for messing up when she was fired.
Girl, one of your own men/subordinate almost died, lost a limb, and you're worried bout your promotion, not even acknowledging the fact that Orion did good (even tho he had to break protocol)?
0:47 the middle finger orion lmao
Yeah I saw that💀💀
Great video analysis my man.
Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly excellent as Optimus Prime/Orion Pax, and it really shocked me how much range he has as an actor/voice actor since Im pretty sure this was one of Chris Hemsworth's first voice-acting roles (other than voicing Thor in the Disney+ Marvel What If animated series). Hemsworth really sounded like a young Peter Cullen, and Im glad he actually met with Peter to truly honour the character and what Peter has brought to the role by finding the best way to nail the voice but give his own spin on Optimus that feels original.
I especially love his characterisation as it made more sense to make him a fellow miner than to make him a librarian, just like D-16 was. As you said, it makes their falling out more painful/meaningful and gives Orion/Optimus a better understanding to what it means to come from the lower class of society. I like how they made him this more rambunctious, hot-headed guy who's so ambitious to prove himself and make things better, albeit at the expense of getting himself and others like D-16 or Elita 1 into trouble. I liked how they chose to have him mature and grow up in the span of the movie to understand the weight of his moral responsibilities to make things better by exposing Sentinel's lies. This mission gives Orion a deeper understanding of how his reckless actions have consequences that he neglected to think about and how he's been unintentionally selfish, prioritising his ambitions over D-16's, which only added fuel to the ever-growing downfall of their friendship. Honestly, I just loved that they chose to make Orion the extroverted, reckless go-getter and make D-16 the introverted, simple, hard worker who believed in the system, two friends with juxtaposing values and beliefs, but both still cared for each other like brothers. That scene where Orion inspires the miners to fight back against Sentinel was so empowering and honestly my favourite scene of the movie because it really shows what kind of person Orion is I love the detail of Orion kneeling down at the miners' level because, unlike Sentinel, he was one of them and saw all of them as friends and family and inspiring all of them like a good father figure, which is everything Optimus Prime should be, a noble, hopeful, brave leader who's never afraid to be *strong enough to be gentle.*
There's a great balance of Shakespearean tragedy and inspiring hope in Orion's ressurection as Optimus Prime. At the same time, Orion desperately tries to save D-16 from making a terrible mistake that he won't come back from, but is too late and has to pay the price. This only fuels D-16's mental breakdown, becoming Megatron as he lets go of the last shreds of his former self.
Something I really hope they do in a potential sequel is that I hope they explore Optimus's feelings of unworthiness and his inner guilt over how he blames D-16 for driving him to become the tyrant he became. There's a lot of potential to really dive into how emotionally struggling and pressured Optimus is as the leader of Cybertron, guiding the Autobots to gain their independence from the Quintessons or have to come to terms with that Megatron will come for him. I can see them give Optimus this arc of having to face his feelings of imposter syndrome even though he's given everything to make Iacon better and gave Elita 1, Bee, and all the miners of Iacon a chance to have a purpose bigger than they ever could've dreamt. There is a lot of room to explore Optimus and give him a very compelling arc about the expectations of life and making sacrifices and choices that we can't control. Still, we must strive to do what is right, even choices that lead to a further drift from the people who we once knew as friends.
I’m honestly not surprised that Chris Hemsworth has a lot of range as an actor. Eapecially this year as he manage to play two different kinds of character types that is outside his usual acting range in brilliant made film that are sadly slept upon (the other being Furiosa).
That conclusion was so... rejuvenating to hear.
Recently I made a huge mistake and broke the trust of one of my closest friends, and I fear that we're not going to be able to repair our friendship. Ever since, I've felt like such a fraud and the villain in our stories, but being reminded how Optimus grew from his own flaws and mistakes into a courageous and kind-hearted leader was exactly what I've needed to hear, to know that I'm not going down an irreparable path that I've wanted to avoid for so long.
Thank you.
Sometimes I feel like Orion's development goes much more unnoticed than D-16's. When I saw the movie I immediately noticed D's development, but when I thought about the movie I couldn't help but think more about Orion. The character writing in this movie is amazing.
10:50 This was the scene that made me cry in the cinema (this video, for some reason, made me cry too).
That makes sense. D-16 underwent a major character change to become Megatron. Orion’s core character however didn’t change the same way D-16 did. His views, ideals and beliefs were challenged, but unlike D-16, Orion ends the film with his original character intact, albeit matured.
Honestly Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly good as a voice actor.
I mean, is there any reason that a live-action actor can't voice act just as well? Technically speaking it should be easier than live-action acting since you only need to use your voice instead of needing to alter your body language and expressions as required.
@@TheRedMan77 It does help that Peter Cullen helped out as a consultant to Chris Hemsworth on how to get the voice right.
@@TheWarmachine375 That too. By the way, did Hemsworth reach out to Cullen for help or did Cullen just offer to give some pointers?
@@TheRedMan77 The latter.
"During production on Transformers One, Cullen served as a consultant for Chris Hemsworth on getting the voice and mannerisms down.[7]"
[7] "Transformers One News: Film is Testing Very Well and Peter Cullen Consulted Chris Hemsworth on Voice"
@@TheWarmachine375 Thanks.
Decepticons: Betraying Starscream and following Megatron instead after he won the fight because they believe in “Strength of one bot over another”.
Also Decepticons: Somehow are still loyal to Megatron after he got his ass kicked by Optimus. They kinda forgot about their own philosophy, huh?
Probably pledged loyalty to Megatron after learning that what he planned to do aligned with their goals.
This would make no sense with a surface-level reading, but the high guard wanted sentinal dead, and Megatron achieved that goal. To them, he is more of a leader than Optimus, because he actually got the job done.
@@Deadlyspark Interesting point
@@Deadlyspark plus optimus rejects the highguard. He banished all of them anyways.
The main reason is that, while Optimus beats Megatron, he doesn't do it to further the Decepticon cause and thus the conflict of interest makes him ineligible for usurping leadership. The Decepticon leader position is taken when another Cybertronian who wants to further the Decepticon cause defeats the previous leader as proof of strength to lead the cause better. So if you're not on board with the Deception agenda, the Deception rules don't apply to you.
Honey wake up a new Delta Trion TFone video is releasing
"Orion is transforming from a selfish wanna-be. Into a selfless somebody."
That's a great quote. 😊
14:31 an analysis of this scene I have seen on Tumblr that I agree with a lot is that Orion wasn’t actually expecting D to blast at Sentinel, or at least at himself, and was hoping to talk D down from killing Sentinel. You can really see the surprise in Orion’s face after he’s shot, as if he wasn’t expecting to be hit, that backs up this interpretation of Orion’s actions here.
I honestly love Chris hemsworths take, most of the takes are good for me! Peter cullen will always be optimus, but honestly its good were getting more then just him, in the most respectful way cullen has earned a retirement, for inspiring childhoods with his prime voice
What I'm surprised that Orion Pax and Elita-1 didn't have inbuilt weapons to manifest compared with D-16 who have a Fusion Cannon and B-127 wielding knife hands and arm cannons.
Of course Orion Pax got an Energon Axe arm through the Matrix of Leadership as Optimus Prime.
I think bee having knives is to reflect his journey in hopeful sequels. Assuming he'll have similarities to other Bees, he'll be a scout wanting to be a warrior. my guess is that in the next movies bee will struggle in his role but his knives will require him to focus and choose a path where he can excel or something along those lines.
Orion does have mini-blasters in his truck mode, and it does seem like the group's bodies are still developing, with the upgrades showing themselves as needed. Maybe Elita didn't suddenly develop anything because she was a skilled enough fighter to not need them, at least not yet.
Some have suggested this hints at their original 'functions' if their T-Cogs hadn't been stripped out before their protoforms came online. D-16 might have been slated as a military machine as a nod to the G1 continuities origins of the Decepticons, while the Autobots had more mundane vehicle modes meant for work or pleasure.
I forgot for a second that B got weponds, but unlike D. Even when B went ham in the controll room, he still listened to those around him. Wich is impressive since he been pushed around alot.
This movie writing and directing really is amazing.
I actually like both origins for optimus as 1. Hes a dude seeing beyond his class to help other and change what it means to be an Autobot. 2. He just a lowly guy trying to show everyone he and the miners can be so much more.
He was never a BAD person but he was oblivious at point
It’s sad watching these studios come down hard on these content creators who are just simply trying to praise their movies and push them out to a wider audience. I hope you win.
I think Orion's character growth in the beginning from an impetuous but bright eyed and hopeful young bot into the strong, but gentle Autobot leader makes some of his choices as Optimus make more sense in some stories. Not that this was intentional (at least yet), but it makes passing the torch to young leaders like Ultra Magnus (and eventually Hot Rod) in the 86 film, as well as Smokescreen in Transformers Prime even more meaningful. He sees past their stubbornness and impulsiveness for their real qualities as good leaders and good autobots. He sees himself in them in a way, and wants to nurture that.
It's a wasted opportunity for Peter Cullen to voice Primus and say *"ARISE OPTIMUS PRIME!"* when ascending Orion Pax with the reformed Matrix of Leadership.
Maybe in the sequel. Where Prime seeks guidance in being the new leader from Primus.
I mean, that was Alpha Trion saying that I'm pretty sure. Unless you mean you wished Primus spoke in that scene, in which case I agree that would have kicked ass.
What hit me in the emo-guts was when Orion got shot by D-16, harkening back to the days where G1 Orion got shot by Megatron. The montage thereafter kinda gave me this impression that you shouldn't mess with other people and that your undoing comes from the unlikeliest of places, since just as D-16 turned into Megatron because of Sentinel Prime's a-holery, Orion turned into Optimus because of Megatron's a-holery. Heck, G1 Orion was a simple dock worker who admired Megatron's ability to fly and his innate rizz. He got fooled, it cost him his life, and Primus decided he's had enough of Megatron's a-holery, and gave him his "worst nightmare".
I wonder if Optimus Prime can access the other weapons of the Thirteen through the Matrix of Leadership aside Zeta's Energon Axe such as Prima's Star Saber, Megatronus' Requiem Blaster, and Solus's Forge Hammer for example.
That would make Optimus truly a stronger enemy to Megatron who would find any means of getting stronger and have new weapons to beat him.
If they follow the lore from which the 13 Primes were inspired from (IDW/Aligned continuity) then yea. He will probably be able to use the Forge or other weapons of the Primes.
I would like to point out somethings, like the time Elita was fired, Orion was willing to take the fall, or the time that Sentinel came to talk to Orion and D-16, Orion thinking that they were in trouble was willing to take the fall. Even though the writers made Orion selfish, the selfish bot was showing that he cares for the bots he call friends an willing to do anything to protect them, and was willing to stand in front and protect the one he called brother.
I feel Orion more impulsive/ "act first think later" kind of guy. Not really selfish, more like he didn't think how his action affect people around him
Correct! Again though, his selfish tendencies do not define his entire character.
@@DeltaTrion true
I never saw Orion Pax as 'selfish' in the movie since he always seemed to want to help all the miners and improve their station on Cybertron, just reckless. He focuses on the goal, but does not plan out his methods. Part of him going from Orion to Optimus is learning to think over going on pure impulse
Ngl, on my first watch I was seeing Orion through D-16's eyes, I didn't like how Orion was reckless, trying to prove smth with a big dumb idea, dragging Dee into his shenanigans and also having Dee save his bumper most of the time, basically being that one "bad influence" friend that always gets into trouble.
But on my second watch, it was quite clearer, Orion just wanted to help his fellow miners, like trying to locate and get the matrix for energon to flow again and so the miners wouldn't die from working so much, getting into the Iacon 5000 to prove that the miners can be as good as the bigger bots, and always using "we/us" as in Miners in general or as in Orion and D-16.
"Selfish" is indeed quite a strong word to use, and after understanding why he was doing all of that, I don't think he was being selfish at all, especially when he seems to be always thinking and caring about his fellow miners.
(Maybe he was a bit selfish with Dee, cuz he wasn't really thinking about the consequences of his ideas not working, and even knowing that Dee cared about his job, Orion still drags Dee into things, like the Iacon 5000).
Another point about the celebrity casting. People forget that one of the biggest draws of the 86 transformers movie was that all the new characters were voiced by then big name stars, with the main villain of the film being voiced by one of the greatest actors to ever grace the silver screen, the late great Orsen Wells, and id dare say no actor to play Unicron since has come close the bringing the screen presence that Wells did.
I wouldn't say Orion was selfish at all. Sure, He was very headstrong and reckless, but he worked the hardest to create positive social change in cybertron. Everything he did was because he wanted what was best for his people and wanted them to see that they were more than what they were born to do.
Orion Is unaware of how the "real world works" and yet it is exactly his actions which works out well and saves the day.
And now we all know why Optimus is great with speeches. Because he failed to save his brother from being swallowed up by his own darkness.
A 26-minute video on Orion Pax by Delta Trion? HELL YEAH!!
Dude, your content is phenomenal! Inspiring really. Keep up the great work! Love your breakdown of the characters
This is one of the best character analysis videos of Optimus/Orion that I've seen, and a cool retrospective, as well
Awesome video analysis. I really love this version of Optimus Prime. One of the best written iterations I've seen.
Chris Hemsworth's voice acting was a pleasant surprise since I was quite skeptical of his role, but the movie proved me wrong. He was phenomenal.
One of my favorite traits of Orion in this movie is how, despite his reckless tendencies, his always trying (even if he fails) to take accountability and reach a middle ground. He tries to defend Elita from Drakwing, then later accepts her terms for tagging along. He tries to tell Sentinel that D had nothing to do with them getting in the race. It’s those early hints of a leader who knows how to recognize his faults even if he didn’t exactly know how to fix them yet
This movie made me very emotional. Optimus Prime is a very important character to me. As much as I love the bayverse movies for what they are I will admit over the years Prime's character has slowly started to bother me. I grew up looking up to him, I even applied a lot of his core beliefs to my own life growing up. It's really silly to say that a giant fictional alien robot that turns into a semi-truck has shaped my moral compass growing but it's the truth. Good or bad, right or wrong. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
This is well analyzed and presented. However, I disagree rather strongly with several of your assertions. Orion Pax does start off somewhat rash, which he does need to grow beyond to be a good leader, but I would not go so far as to call him "selfish" and I absolutely do not agree that being "trouble" in an oppressive, unjust society is somehow purely a flaw to be overcome when it's the troublemakers that drive positive systemic change. Just because D-16 claims that Orion only thinks about himself does not make it objectively true. Orion is the one who from the very beginning was seeking a solution that would improve the lot of all the miners, not just himself, where D-16 would've been content to be a cog in the system forever. And I find it somewhat disingenuous that on the one hand you blame society for Megatron's crimes while on the other hand, you blame Orion for not conforming to that very same society just because being heroic brings negative consequences from a corrupt regime.
Also, you place rather undue emphasis on "fixing his mistakes" when it comes to Optimus receiving the Matrix and the ending of the film when I did not get that impression at all. Primus granting Orion the Matrix is him validating Orion's choices and convictions. I'm not sure where you're getting "Primus wants Optimus to right his own wrongs" from that. Optimus is successfully reforming society by bringing back the flow of energon and returning the miners' cogs, thereby eliminating the discriminatory caste system for good, and defending his people from Cybertron's true enemies the Quintessons. He's not thinking about fighting Megatron. You seem to be framing civil war as inevitable, but that's from a meta perspective, not an in-universe one. It's Megatron who is fixated on tearing down Optimus and for what? It's Megatron who chooses to start the war, not Optimus.
This all skirts a little too closely to blaming Orion/Optimus for Megatron's own decisions. Yes, Megatron is partially a product of the system. Yes, Orion did have a hand in shaping him. But that does not at all erase Megatron's culpability or the fact that regardless of whatever "influences," Megatron's choices are his own responsibility, no one else's.
Very well laid out points. D is responsible for his own actions yes, but, I would say that Orion is partly responsible for them by proxy. I’ve noticed a lot of comments only talking about how I call Orion Selfish, but not that I point out that he grows to be Selfless. Selfishness is not Orions only characteristic, but it is the one I am focusing on
@@DeltaTrion I appreciate your perspective and the structure you were going for in your video essay. I still have to disagree that Orion's arc is as clear cut as "growth from selfish to selfless" because I would not characterize Orion as even starting out selfish. Selfishness is more than just actions, it's a mindset describing one's motivations. And Orion's motivations are never selfish, from seeking the Matrix for the betterment of all to saving Jazz to being willing to accept the consequences when his own choices go awry and even to refusing to leave D-16 behind both before and during the Iacon 5000. These are all things he does not for his own benefit but to make life better for others.
Does that mean that he always makes the best choices or that his actions always have the best outcomes? No, but that's still a different matter from whether he's selfish or not. And I would say he's incredibly selfless already from the very beginning. I do agree that he grows and matures to becomes more selfless over the course of the film and I don't disagree that he is capable of being selfish at times, because everyone is, but to say that he is "selfish" implies that selfishness is a major defining trait of his at any point in the movie, which I very much disagree with. To me, his arc isn't one where he's humbled into becoming a better person, because he never needed humbling. He just needed tempering.
The world and people around us influence who we are, yes. But I believe that how we respond to them is still an active choice that we alone make. In the end, the buck stops with us. So no, I don't agree that Orion is at all responsible for D's actions, but I can understand why you and others might think otherwise.
Thanks for replying!
@@arielleh.1413 Orion is not about “selfish to selfless” but about “reckless to responsible”
Also, the whole “righting the wrong” thing about Orion gaining the Matrix, I think it’s less about Optimus and more about Megatron. Because D16’s first mistake was shooting Orion’s arm off then he chose to deliberately drop Orion to die. Now Orion was revived as Optimus and returned to the surface. This was D16’s second chance to “right his wrong”. Optimus told him that they could have built the future together. He literally offered D16 peace and what did D16 do? He went full Megatron and chose to attack Optimus like an unhinged psychopath anyway. The primes gave D16 a test and he failed. He’s now fully responsible for the incoming war.
Everytime I hear that story it gives me chills. Honestly it will be so sad when peter and Frank's time comes. Him,Frank, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are truly irreplaceable. They all truly embody their characters.
This Might be the Best Optimus Prime Version we have in a Long While, sure Peter Collin’s is Fantastic but Chris did a Fantastic Job with the Role as a Young Orion Pax, he Rebels on Protocol Yes however unlike D-16 who even in the Start of the Film he only believes in Himself and even more so when he finds out the Truth, Pax was breaking the Rules for a Better Future for Cybertron and it’s People embracing their Potential, even though he’s different from his other incarnations he’s extremely Accurate as Pax always searches for Knowledge like how other Orion Pax Versions was a Liberian and shows how Intelligent and Clever he is like how he has Quick Thinking in Escape from Danger or Fighting Against It, who he Enters and solved Solutions in that Race, how he Save Jazz and Bee, and how he took the Idea to Expose Sentinel when Airachnid said “I Can See Everything” giving him the Advantage, hell Chris took Notes from Peter Himself to Understand the Tone and Character Better as Peter said he’s going to voice Prime in Live Action Movies but he’s giving his Blessings to Someone Else in Animated Projects and I’m ok with that, also I never knew Cullins used that Quote “Strong Enough to be Gentle” His Brother gave to Construct how Optimus Prime will later Become 40 Years Ago until a Month after this Movie’s Release and now that Quote is Forever Stuck in Me Forever as a Great Leader will need to be Strong Enough to be Gentle to Their People, that’s both True Leadership and a Righteous Soul that we Don’t Fight to Defeat Our Enemies, We Fight to Protect Our Love Ones, that’s why it Hit Us so Hard when We Fail.
While this video is well made, I'm gonna have to disagree with some of your points.
1. Orion does disregard D's wishes and is a bit reckless, but he is trying to help his friend have dreams of his own. He even gets him a Megatronus Prime decal because he knows about D's love of him.
2. Primus didn't grant Orion Pax the Matrix to "fix past mistakes". No, he was granted the Matrix to protect Cybertron from the Quintessons and D, who just betrayed him, and more importantly, was gonna KILL MILLIONS because he hates Sentinel so much that he genuinely thinks those who dont agree with him are supporters of Sentinel.
3. Like MrAwesomeness360 points out, Just because you can understand where D comes from doesn't mean hes right.
Other than that, great video. I can get how you see things your way, but I just wanted to point out these for others who see it another way.
On point 1 we agree. He’s not 100% selfish. Perhaps I over used the word in the video, but Orion has many redeeming qualities. But he does also have selfish tendencies.
For point 2, I would argue that healing Cybertron and righting the past wrongs are closely tied together. Both can work together.
Point 3 is something a lot of people mention. I’m not saying Megatron is right. I’m just saying you can understand where he comes from and what he does. You should check out my D-16 video for more on that
@DeltaTrion I've watched this and the D-16 video. I get what you are saying. It's just the way you put emphasis on certain phrases could give off that idea.
It's actually quite fitting considering his personality as shown in War Dawn
This is perhaps the best look we ever had at Optimus Prime and Megatron’s past friendship.
It´s incredible how good this movie is. The central plot is a perfect distillation of their many origin comics, flashbacks and novels. Iacon and Cybertron look amazing. The screen is populated by so many transformers it´s insane, and you can recognize dozens of them. It´s fanservice in all the ways it can be.
Urge to re-watch TFOne rising...
Great work, as always! I think you're right on the money, having Pax and D-16 start off as part of the same social class really enhances the story once they become Optimus and Megatron, because the divergence comes down to personal choices rather than being lucky enough to be an archivist rather than a miner.
Oreo Pacts
MegaMunch
What pacts have the Oreos made? Is it political? Does it have anything to do with the feud between the M@Ms and Skittles?
@@bradleyadams5252 Oreo Packs need the matrix of Sweetership in order to place order and freedom in all of Candytron, its alot more complicated than the feud you speak of.
I'm sure along with his friend, Snicker 16 wouldn't make the situation worse.
@@machi7074 But KitKat prime is such a jerk, would it really be so bad to break off a few of his pieces?
@@machi7074
This is why I love the internet
Personally, I think Orion Pax’s arc to Optimus Prime was just as good as D-16’s arc to Megatron
I'd like to note (might be wrong) but D-16 is still in there he nearly cried when Prime Banished him, sure he still clouded by rage but he still has his emotions
I'm realy happy I found your channel cuz your analysis on this simple but effective character was really well done! I loved how you tied Orions growth and D-16's as a kind of tragedy! Keep it up, I would love to see more transformer stuff too!
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Orion being selfish because you can look at him dragging D-16 into doing shenanigans as a way for him to save D from an abusive relationship with the system.
Again, as stated with many comments here, I’m not saying that Orion is only selfish, rather I am focusing on his selfish moments
The scene with him talking to the miners is one of my favorite scenes in the movie.
Rest in peace and power Captain Larry Cullen ❤
Like some people here, to say that Orion was completely selfish might be a bit harsh, though I can definitely see it when it came to some of the decisions he made, but ultimately he did what the thought was best and wanted to help everyone, and even when some of his decisions backfired like when saving Jazz or the race he immediately stepped up to take the fall and responsibility. But I think that was the point that Orion was always good and kind, but he definitely was naive and didn’t consider the potential consequences of his actions, especially with that “don’t be like Sentinal” part like I think we can all agree that was a facepalm moment there
i think this one is one of my favorites versions of orion pax/optimus prime, same with this version of d-16/megatron, two sides of the same corruption where one chooses to try to fix things after being naive while the others chooses to burn it all down (as someone from a country with know corrupted leaders this is something that many of the people of my country would agree with), orion is good he reminds me of a class clown at the start a class clown that question things and grow into themselves once they realize how things can be fixed
though the love i have for this version of optimus also comes from the fact i also love tfa optimus prime, their so similar on terms of how they grow while tfa optimus didnt start as orion it can be argue that his season 1 self is orion a leader that is too new in a war that is complicated at best
i love these versions of optimus prime because their unique but they also show how anyone can become a prime how anyone can be better and work to be better no matter the mistakes they made in the past
I'm glad that you brought up Prince of Egypt. While watching T1, saw more than a few similarities between the two movies.
Remember guys, this reckless bot wasn't willing to have greater power, but still gained the Matrix of Leadership.
I think the difference with violence between Megatron and Optimus is that violence and destruction are always Megatron's/D-16's first choice. D didn't HAVE to destroy that tracker bot, but he relished in his first kill which is somewhat (understandably so) appalling to both the audience and Orion. He didn't HAVE to almost choke Starscream out and blow his head off, but he did anyways. Megatron even says that's the last time he'll ever show mercy, which is very telling of his ideologies and his personality "Tear it down! All of it!!!"
Meanwhile, Optimus/Orion only default to violence when the moment calls for it, like stopping Sentinel's forces so they could expose him or fighting Megatron himself to stop him from destroying Iacon. It's all the differences underneath that make the characters so deep and well-written in this movie.
Watching this movie also made me appreciate the original 1986 one more.
Knowing Orion Pax's backstory and personality before growing into the role of Optimus Prime, well, it makes Hot Rod more likable and more understandable why he was chosen to become the new leader of the Autobots.
Orion Pax's growth from selfish to selfless was so well portrayed-it's inspiring! 🔥
Orion drags D along to two things....the Iacon 5000, and then escaping sub-level 50. (And the latter D willingly went along with. It was only the race that he didn't know about ahead of time.)
Orion snuck into the records building (to learn about the Matrix so he could help) alone. He didn't force anyone to help him save Jazz (who was in peril through no fault of Orion's).
I'm sorry, but saying he was selfish goes beyond what we see.
Who is we?
is the "we" in the room with us?
@@DeltaTrion “We” the audience. We’re all shown the same scenes, the same dialogue, but some of the conclusions you draw in this video just don’t line up with what we’re shown in the film.
@@tc3969 right but I am an audience member too. I interpreted the scenes differently. And some do agree with me. But let’s just stick to our own personal opinions rather than pushing a narrative of a “we” vs one person. Don’t neglect those that agree with me. Plenty of people on both sides
@ I respect your opinions and the work you’ve put into your TF One videos, but I can’t really get onboard with this one. You talk a lot about moments where Orion’s actions have negative consequences for other characters, and frame these moments as Orion being selfish. But this ignores the fact that Orion isn’t motivated by self-interest or personal gain. Sure, he can be reckless and inconsiderate, but he never displays the level of ego-centrism you would expect to see in somebody you would describe as selfish.
In my opinion the best dinamic between hero and villain is when they're both creations of each other.
They cooked with this film it's easily in my top 3 of transformers film's
i just wanna say i've really been enjoying your videos!!!!! thank you so much for your work
I love the line D-16 gives Optimus “you’re never thinking about anything else just yourself” because When D tells him this, it’s during a time when Orion was still a little selfish, but means well. When D goes to shoot Sentinel, Orion immediately thinks about what he’s going to do and at that moment decides to take the shot for Sentinel. He still thinks of what he’s going to do, but in a selfless way.
I'm not convinced Orion was ever selfish in this movie. If anything, he'd rather ask for forgiveness than permission.
I Really like how orion's backstory in the movie emphasizes the meaning to "Anyone can be a hero".
I also want to point out that Orion first checks on D after killing the Tracker once Orion starts laughing hysterically
Also, funny enough, in G1 it is MEGATRON who ends up creating Optimus, versus Orion leading to the creation of Megatron and Optimus Prime by dragging D-16 into the Iacon 5000.
Of course, G1 Megatron is basically Sentinel Prime in his character - an opportunistic, self serving despot who craves to be in charge of everything. He just also has greater ambition than Sentinel than being merely king of an underground city. D16 would despise this Megatron... but will he end up becoming just like him? We shall see.
I grew up with Optimus, but I've learned that it's those who broke rules and convention that are the most interesting, and can have the best perspective. So, I really like this version of Optimus. If makes his character more interesting.
orion for me embodies the right for citizen who always question and thought deeply about the ruler of his kin
while d16 is a gear in the system just blindly putting trust in things he think is good
honestly if d16 didn't go with pax discovering the truth he would never question his existent in the mines
but when he knows the truth he's a gear that broke off from the cycles and decided to no longer follow anybody but his own self desire and being right which compare to real life world leader who have the same mindset
already said alot about what megs about to do in the future movies(crossing my finger on the trilogy happening)
This video, and Orion’s arc in this film, resonated with me on a personal level. Thank you for this amazing video.
17 17 He shares his power with his friends whom he keeps next to him while Megatron keeps his subordinates at bay taking all the power for himself, afraid of being betrayed.
It all had to happen like it did. They were the opposites. Always were. Always will be. 'Till all are 1.
This vid came out at just the right time, ya boys been going through it so it's nice to be reminded of the positivity out there
megatron wanted revenge as a form of justice. Orion wanted sentinel to live as a form of judicial justice. TRUE justice. Murder is not justice. Sentinel cannot die until he has faced consequences for his actions. That is how I perceive the differences of their forms of justice
orion was not selfish i mean he is he's trying to prove something but when him d elita and b found out about what sentinel prime did he's no longer that selfish bot that hope slowly making him into optimus prime
You can be selfless in motive and intention but selfish in mind and action. Orion initially never really took what other bots wanted into consideration. He wished only the best for everyone but was blinded by what he thought everyone needed that he didn't see how the consequences of his actions would affect those around him until, in D-16's case, it was too late.
I think that's what Delta Trion meant when calling Orion selfish.
@@XionTyran It’s less of being selfish and more of being reckless. Plus Orion and everyone else were slaves so it’s normal for a slave like him to want freedom.
Yeah, I feel Orion "act first, think later" kind of guy/robot, who never think how his action affect other people.
Yessss ive been waiting for this for these video essays about orion
2:57 TF Animated 100% needed a different voice for Optimus, because that version of Optimus is so different from the others. He's not the Autobot leader, nor is he as wise etc.
Animated Prime is probably my favorite iteration of Optimus next to the OG and Optimus Primal, Animated Optimus feels so relatable BECAUSE he's basically a space janitor forced into a position of leadership (I could go on for hours about why I love the character writing in Animated)
Another really great video on the Transformers One characters.
I’ve got to say, I’m really looking forward to your Elita One video. I can’t say she was my favorite upon my first watching of the film. I saw her as too cocky and didn’t like the way she talked down to everyone even as they tried to help her or (especially) when she was trying to help them. But I still feel like there is more to her character and I’m interested to get another perspective on the character and see how she is more than meets the eye.
I found your channel with the d-16 video. Your an amazing character analyst and I cannot wait to see what kind of content to make next
Chris said, "You think I'll blow it, oh boy I'm finna fix that real quick."
Transformers Two!!! Let’s go!
Also to me Optimus being a troublemaker before he became “Optimus Prime” makes Hot Rod getting the Matrix later make more sense in a way
wow, that was amazing. You did a great job! hope it preforms well!
I'm loving these transformer one reviews.
The best part is that the video you said that Paramount was trying to take down is the next to play after this one in the queue
I Personally didn't Mind Chris Hemsworth's Vocal Performance as Orion/Optimus, (He was Decent imo) But You Know what would've made This Version of Optimus Extra Peak? if He was Voiced by *Keith David.* Like Seriously, HOW TF has That Casting Not Happened Yet? Lol
Keith David should voice Megatronus in a flashback.
Nah, Keith David is barricade.