When Orion gave his speech, he knelt on the same levels as his followers. In contrast to D16, when he gave his speech, he stood above everyone else. Simple visual storytelling but it’s a great foreshadowing what kind of leader each of them is gonna be.
I really liked how he contrasted d16 with regards to him being willing to give d16 the credit for finding the matrix for sentinel prime when it was his idea that he wanted for the good of his people
That was just a ploy to get D16 to do his thing. He spends the whole movie doing this. Flat out scamming him into doing the race. This culminates in a scene where he's ignoring D16's feelings on wanting to kill Sentinel and is willing to die to protect Sentinel just so things get done his way. He never stops being selfish, but his desires happen to align with Primus.
@@ajh22895Why is it that ppl villainize Orion stopping D-16 from killing Sentinel??? It’s so obvious it was never about Sentinel, it was about stopping D-16 from going to far
@@CoolMan12948 To be fair, this kind of problem happened to so many superheroes as well. They have no qualms killing nameless henchmen then start drawing the line of “killing is wrong” when it’s the main bad guy.
Optimus Prime began life as a reckless rule-breaking troublemaker and turned into a selfless hero. While Megatron began life as an obedient rule-following model citizen and turned into a ruthless villain.
It's not just about their actions, but their motivations and goals. Yes, Orion is a reckless trouble makes, but he's always trying to help others and build a freer more equal Cybertron. Whereas D-16 is only obedient because he bought into Sentinel's lie that the only thing, he could ever be was lowly miner. Even before meeting the high guard, he's already fully indoctrinated into the belief that the weak serve while the strong rule, the only thing that changes for him is which of those two categories he considers himself part of.
@@EmeralBookwise Otion does drag D-16 in his problem while hoping to help others. Like continuely breaking into the archives to research where the matrix of leadership. D-16 does have a "me and mine" mindset. If it is not him or his friend apart of it then it not an issue to him and just follow the rules.
The problem Optimus had back when he was Orion was lack of consideration for other people. That’s what partially turned D-16 into Megatron. Because Orion kept making plans involving other people without their input.
Yess exactly. Orion always had good intentions, but he's bad at respecting people's boundaries. Like, dragging D-16 to the race? I know people like to harp that "ooh but it worked out in the end, it led to good things, D-16 liked racing in the end", it doesn't detract from the fact it was a shitty thing to do. Imagine you've explicitly said you don't wanna do a thing, maybe bc it's too dangerous for you or you simply don't want to, and your friend STILL drags you into it - it's disrespectful at best and hurtful at worst. Heck, if a surgery is supposed to save your life, even doctors still has to respect your decision if you want to reject the surgery. Orion couldn't even respect Dee's No on minor things and it's little wonder why D-16 harbored resentment over time. And I did like that D-16 calling him out on his impetuous behavior led to Orion changing that later down the line - instead of dragging the miners into the fight, instead he talks to them properly and asks them for help. An earlier Orion wouldn't have done that.
@ajh22895 um...letting go and dropping him IS a betrayal of THE highest order. And killing Sentinel without THE PEOPLE'S permission was a betrayal because the people may not have wanted that at all. Everything was happening too fast, and then D-16 kills Sentinel.
@@ajh22895 It WAS betrayal, he dropped him off, "oh but he was trying to save sentinel", no he wasn't, he was trying to save D-16 from getting in a path that has no way back
I like how Orion was flawed in this movie. We're already used to the seasoned hero we all know and love, but this is such a refreshing take on Optimus. Orion being a miner makes his origins more relatable and his road to Primacy more tragic, since Orion and D are in the same class. Orion can truly understand what D when through. This is not to disregard the previous interactions of OP. But I actually like his origins in this movie. Though Orion means well, he is so focused on what he wants that he fails to consider D's feelings (seen especially in their time in sub level 50 and when they discovered the truth). When D angerly told him that "he only thinks of himself". I didn't understand that sceen on my first watching. Thinking how Orion could be selfish when he's trying his best to find the matrix. Then I realized that D was actually more upset with the fact that his recklessness is what drags him into trouble. He got punched by Darkwing and got sent to sub level 50 because of Orion. Even if was unintentional on Orion's part. The cave scene is also significant because you can already see the contrast between D and Orion. Orion uses pronouns like 'we' and 'us'. He's less vengeful and he focused more on the bigger picture. Meanwhile D uses 'I' a lot and is more forecful and brutal. It's a subtle word choice, but it managed to make them stand out as characters. TF One makes you want to root for the both of them. I actually haven't finished watching your video as of writing, but after watching your D-16 video. I just had to gush about Orion lol. Keep up the good work!
You realize Pax was a dock worker back in G1, right? Pax's origins have always been from humble backgrounds that was raised up to Prime for his bravery and/or heroics.
While I agree Orion is a bit naive and impetuous, I wouldn’t go so far to call it selfishness. Yeah, he got D into some escapades, but part of the reason he dragged him along was because D never had any real aspirations. He, like a lot of people who believed in the system, were only content with their station because it was the only way to cope with the situations they were in; like being abused by Darkwing. They were brainwashed into thinking it’s all they were good for, and like many victims of abuse, tell themselves it’s fine to avoid facing the reality of it. Orion got D that Megatronus sticker because he knew how much D idolized the guy and wanted to support his individual interests. To your point about D blaming Orion, D was the one thinking about himself and how Sentinel betrayed HIM, not his friends or all of Cybertron. He chose to blindly believe in Sentinel and could not take responsibility for this mistake and would rather blame Orion for taking him out of his ignorance. D was actually happy to go on the surface trip with him. Also, when D started taking charge, Orion was more concerned with D getting more aggressive with him and the others. He was genuinely scared of what D was becoming and tried to help him.
@@somdudewillson While I agree, and am not contesting Orion should have been more mindful of this, that is not what he was trying to do. D wanted to stay in line because that's what he was taught to do. Its all they knew and never questioned, so what they wanted was the same thing most people want: to stay in line and follow protocol in perceived comfort. If I were to offer a better way to describe Orion's flaws and arc: its the transition from impulsive naivety to responsible optimism. And lets not forget the truth is it was all a lie convincing them to be used by Sentinel. No matter how many times Darkwing abused them or left others to die, his only response was stay in line. Heck, when Jazz needed to be saved, Darkwing punished them for it even though Orion took responsibility for the incident. If everyone is just gonna accept that kind of treatment, then its very telling of society as a whole.
The message I take from Optimus' character arc is that overcoming naivety but still choosing to be an optimist afterwards is a valid (and often necessary) way to live. No matter how the world works and throws at us, we need to have ideals about how we want things to be. The medium of art is a reflection of that mentality. The idea that expressions of thoughts have a place in reality and must be encouraged. They don't need to have a materialistic form to have worth.
I fear you missed the beauty of Orion's origins from the Aligned Continuity. The entire point was that he was basically an upper middle class bot (not the worst affected by the Caste system) but when confronted with the corruption and injustice plaguing society he didn't just accept it, he sought a way to fix it. He was just an average bot willing to take a stand because it's the right thing to do, and that's pretty inspiring. That's not to say the new origin in TFOne wasn't a good idea or that it wasn't executed well, it was, but your assessment of the Aligned origin (of which TFOne's is closest to) felt rather dismissive, more focused on the superficial appearance of it and not the actual substance behind it.
It's a simillar background to Batman's origin story, allthough not as extreme. Where someone of a higher position uses his resource to help those in the lower class because he doesn't want anyone to go through the pain that he experienced. The message being that you can take a stand against Injustice no matter what position you are in or the privilege you have.
18:05 In response to those "Megatron did nothing wrong" comments: I've been saying for a while now that it's a tad disturbing whenever someone says that a VILLAIN does nothing wrong and actually agrees with their methods. It makes me question their very personhood. Transformers One is a great example that just because you can understand where a villain comes from does not mean they are right, especially when Orion comes from the same background. D-16 had every right to feel upset about Sentinel's betrayal, but the way he went about it wrong, allowing rage to cloud his judgement and letting the darkness corrupt his soul, unlike Pax who was just as upset but still sought out justice, not vengeance. Just because you come from a bad background doesn't mean you can't rise above and become something better. That's why Primus gave Pax the Matrix, not D. Just a reminder of what differentiates a hero and a villain: a hero treats others the way he wishes to be treated; a villain treats others the way he was treated.
@@MrAwsomeness360 Said this twice and I will say it again. This is the danger that came from a sympathetic villain. Spending too much in their twisted mind can easily corrupt the audience’s minds to justify the villain’s actions simply because the audience feels “represented” by them. That’s why I love the Penguin. Just the villain being evil, not a sympathetic misunderstood guy with tragic life.
My favorite character detail of Orion is that while he is reckless, he also shows that he is observant and quick on his feet when a plan changes. This is especially shown during the Iacon 5000, where he determines that the magnetic obstacle has the same pattern as the exhaust port. He's a very intelligent individual. He just needed to learn some self discipline.
Sentinel's cruelty created Megatron, who destroyed him. Megatron's rage created Optimus, who defeated him. Evil creates its own destruction, the only way anything can last is to break the cycle of revenge with optimism and kindness.
That's a much better way of putting it. Optimus didn't create Megatron, he was always trying to save his brother, at first from a life toiling in the mines, and later from going down the path of violent revenge. He always wanted a better life for everyone, including his brother. Even when circumstances drive them apart and Megatron becomes a danger to everyone else, Optimus only banishes him from Iacon, clearly still hoping his former brother can at least make a better life for himself on the surface.
Honestly just “Transformers Two” would be such a fire name for the sequel. I can’t write some massive essay about it, but it could symbolize how Optimus and Megatron are divided and infighting now-they’re split in “Two.”
Decepticons: Betraying Starscream and following Megatron instead after he won the fight because they believe in “Strength of one bot over another”. Also Decepticons: Somehow are still loyal to Megatron after he got his ass kicked by Optimus. They kinda forgot about their own philosophy, huh?
This would make no sense with a surface-level reading, but the high guard wanted sentinal dead, and Megatron achieved that goal. To them, he is more of a leader than Optimus, because he actually got the job done.
The main reason is that, while Optimus beats Megatron, he doesn't do it to further the Decepticon cause and thus the conflict of interest makes him ineligible for usurping leadership. The Decepticon leader position is taken when another Cybertronian who wants to further the Decepticon cause defeats the previous leader as proof of strength to lead the cause better. So if you're not on board with the Deception agenda, the Deception rules don't apply to you.
Its funny that ironically Orion's own reasons of being selfish align into purely selfless motivations. He wants the other miners to be more respected and be seen as equal or deserving their rights of mutual respect and freedom, including himself and D. He wants to help find the Matrix not to be viewed as a hero, but to better help the people around him and all of Cybertron, to help Sentinel as he saw things back then. Hell he works his ass off in the mines enthusiastically to impress Elita and he's dedicated to his job despite it being a shitty and dangerous position. All of that and as others remark on the movie, goes on his life on a very optimistic view with others outside of D himself. Now that he didn't have to directly push his way through life as to earn the ability to transform, he immediately worried and went along with what Alpha Trion told him, because both knew everyone deserved to know what Sentinel had done. While Megatron's real goals and dreams aren't to just be respected, he wants to be at the top of Cybertron, to be next to Sentinel Prime and be just like him, to be just as strong and powerful as Megatronus was, that's exactly why he admired them, you don't ever hear someone speak of what kind of bot Megatronus was, only his strength thanks to Sentinel's change in society. And even funnier, he followed his life strictly to the system and rules wishing for one day he could reach that dream of looking below Cybetron, as I can interpret it. And because how else could he possibly get there without a cog or stirring commotion? He went on to achieve his goals on a very selfless ways, but now that he had the ability to transform and the power he previously wished for? He immediately stopped caring directly for others, he didn't really care about showing the rest of Cybertron what Sentinel had done, if anything he would've ditched Orion Elita and Bee and would've gone with the High Guard to kill Sentinel himself and potentially burn Iacon to the ground if not for Airachnid taking them to Sentinel.
14:31 an analysis of this scene I have seen on Tumblr that I agree with a lot is that Orion wasn’t actually expecting D to blast at Sentinel, or at least at himself, and was hoping to talk D down from killing Sentinel. You can really see the surprise in Orion’s face after he’s shot, as if he wasn’t expecting to be hit, that backs up this interpretation of Orion’s actions here.
Great video analysis my man. Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly excellent as Optimus Prime/Orion Pax, and it really shocked me how much range he has as an actor/voice actor since Im pretty sure this was one of Chris Hemsworth's first voice-acting roles (other than voicing Thor in the Disney+ Marvel What If animated series). Hemsworth really sounded like a young Peter Cullen, and Im glad he actually met with Peter to truly honour the character and what Peter has brought to the role by finding the best way to nail the voice but give his own spin on Optimus that feels original. I especially love his characterisation as it made more sense to make him a fellow miner than to make him a librarian, just like D-16 was. As you said, it makes their falling out more painful/meaningful and gives Orion/Optimus a better understanding to what it means to come from the lower class of society. I like how they made him this more rambunctious, hot-headed guy who's so ambitious to prove himself and make things better, albeit at the expense of getting himself and others like D-16 or Elita 1 into trouble. I liked how they chose to have him mature and grow up in the span of the movie to understand the weight of his moral responsibilities to make things better by exposing Sentinel's lies. This mission gives Orion a deeper understanding of how his reckless actions have consequences that he neglected to think about and how he's been unintentionally selfish, prioritising his ambitions over D-16's, which only added fuel to the ever-growing downfall of their friendship. Honestly, I just loved that they chose to make Orion the extroverted, reckless go-getter and make D-16 the introverted, simple, hard worker who believed in the system, two friends with juxtaposing values and beliefs, but both still cared for each other like brothers. That scene where Orion inspires the miners to fight back against Sentinel was so empowering and honestly my favourite scene of the movie because it really shows what kind of person Orion is I love the detail of Orion kneeling down at the miners' level because, unlike Sentinel, he was one of them and saw all of them as friends and family and inspiring all of them like a good father figure, which is everything Optimus Prime should be, a noble, hopeful, brave leader who's never afraid to be *strong enough to be gentle.* There's a great balance of Shakespearean tragedy and inspiring hope in Orion's ressurection as Optimus Prime. At the same time, Orion desperately tries to save D-16 from making a terrible mistake that he won't come back from, but is too late and has to pay the price. This only fuels D-16's mental breakdown, becoming Megatron as he lets go of the last shreds of his former self. Something I really hope they do in a potential sequel is that I hope they explore Optimus's feelings of unworthiness and his inner guilt over how he blames D-16 for driving him to become the tyrant he became. There's a lot of potential to really dive into how emotionally struggling and pressured Optimus is as the leader of Cybertron, guiding the Autobots to gain their independence from the Quintessons or have to come to terms with that Megatron will come for him. I can see them give Optimus this arc of having to face his feelings of imposter syndrome even though he's given everything to make Iacon better and gave Elita 1, Bee, and all the miners of Iacon a chance to have a purpose bigger than they ever could've dreamt. There is a lot of room to explore Optimus and give him a very compelling arc about the expectations of life and making sacrifices and choices that we can't control. Still, we must strive to do what is right, even choices that lead to a further drift from the people who we once knew as friends.
I mean, is there any reason that a live-action actor can't voice act just as well? Technically speaking it should be easier than live-action acting since you only need to use your voice instead of needing to alter your body language and expressions as required.
I honestly love Chris hemsworths take, most of the takes are good for me! Peter cullen will always be optimus, but honestly its good were getting more then just him, in the most respectful way cullen has earned a retirement, for inspiring childhoods with his prime voice
What I'm surprised that Orion Pax and Elita-1 didn't have inbuilt weapons to manifest compared with D-16 who have a Fusion Cannon and B-127 wielding knife hands and arm cannons. Of course Orion Pax got an Energon Axe arm through the Matrix of Leadership as Optimus Prime.
I think bee having knives is to reflect his journey in hopeful sequels. Assuming he'll have similarities to other Bees, he'll be a scout wanting to be a warrior. my guess is that in the next movies bee will struggle in his role but his knives will require him to focus and choose a path where he can excel or something along those lines.
Orion does have mini-blasters in his truck mode, and it does seem like the group's bodies are still developing, with the upgrades showing themselves as needed. Maybe Elita didn't suddenly develop anything because she was a skilled enough fighter to not need them, at least not yet.
Some have suggested this hints at their original 'functions' if their T-Cogs hadn't been stripped out before their protoforms came online. D-16 might have been slated as a military machine as a nod to the G1 continuities origins of the Decepticons, while the Autobots had more mundane vehicle modes meant for work or pleasure.
I forgot for a second that B got weponds, but unlike D. Even when B went ham in the controll room, he still listened to those around him. Wich is impressive since he been pushed around alot. This movie writing and directing really is amazing.
I wonder if Optimus Prime can access the other weapons of the Thirteen through the Matrix of Leadership aside Zeta's Energon Axe such as Prima's Star Saber, Megatronus' Requiem Blaster, and Solus's Forge Hammer for example. That would make Optimus truly a stronger enemy to Megatron who would find any means of getting stronger and have new weapons to beat him.
It’s sad watching these studios come down hard on these content creators who are just simply trying to praise their movies and push them out to a wider audience. I hope you win.
I actually like both origins for optimus as 1. Hes a dude seeing beyond his class to help other and change what it means to be an Autobot. 2. He just a lowly guy trying to show everyone he and the miners can be so much more.
This Might be the Best Optimus Prime Version we have in a Long While, sure Peter Collin’s is Fantastic but Chris did a Fantastic Job with the Role as a Young Orion Pax, he Rebels on Protocol Yes however unlike D-16 who even in the Start of the Film he only believes in Himself and even more so when he finds out the Truth, Pax was breaking the Rules for a Better Future for Cybertron and it’s People embracing their Potential, even though he’s different from his other incarnations he’s extremely Accurate as Pax always searches for Knowledge like how other Orion Pax Versions was a Liberian and shows how Intelligent and Clever he is like how he has Quick Thinking in Escape from Danger or Fighting Against It, who he Enters and solved Solutions in that Race, how he Save Jazz and Bee, and how he took the Idea to Expose Sentinel when Airachnid said “I Can See Everything” giving him the Advantage, hell Chris took Notes from Peter Himself to Understand the Tone and Character Better as Peter said he’s going to voice Prime in Live Action Movies but he’s giving his Blessings to Someone Else in Animated Projects and I’m ok with that, also I never knew Cullins used that Quote “Strong Enough to be Gentle” His Brother gave to Construct how Optimus Prime will later Become 40 Years Ago until a Month after this Movie’s Release and now that Quote is Forever Stuck in Me Forever as a Great Leader will need to be Strong Enough to be Gentle to Their People, that’s both True Leadership and a Righteous Soul that we Don’t Fight to Defeat Our Enemies, We Fight to Protect Our Love Ones, that’s why it Hit Us so Hard when We Fail.
What hit me in the emo-guts was when Orion got shot by D-16, harkening back to the days where G1 Orion got shot by Megatron. The montage thereafter kinda gave me this impression that you shouldn't mess with other people and that your undoing comes from the unlikeliest of places, since just as D-16 turned into Megatron because of Sentinel Prime's a-holery, Orion turned into Optimus because of Megatron's a-holery. Heck, G1 Orion was a simple dock worker who admired Megatron's ability to fly and his innate rizz. He got fooled, it cost him his life, and Primus decided he's had enough of Megatron's a-holery, and gave him his "worst nightmare".
It's a wasted opportunity for Peter Cullen to voice Primus and say *"ARISE OPTIMUS PRIME!"* when ascending Orion Pax with the reformed Matrix of Leadership.
I mean, that was Alpha Trion saying that I'm pretty sure. Unless you mean you wished Primus spoke in that scene, in which case I agree that would have kicked ass.
orion was not selfish i mean he is he's trying to prove something but when him d elita and b found out about what sentinel prime did he's no longer that selfish bot that hope slowly making him into optimus prime
You can be selfless in motive and intention but selfish in mind and action. Orion initially never really took what other bots wanted into consideration. He wished only the best for everyone but was blinded by what he thought everyone needed that he didn't see how the consequences of his actions would affect those around him until, in D-16's case, it was too late. I think that's what Delta Trion meant when calling Orion selfish.
@@XionTyran It’s less of being selfish and more of being reckless. Plus Orion and everyone else were slaves so it’s normal for a slave like him to want freedom.
Orion drags D along to two things....the Iacon 5000, and then escaping sub-level 50. (And the latter D willingly went along with. It was only the race that he didn't know about ahead of time.) Orion snuck into the records building (to learn about the Matrix so he could help) alone. He didn't force anyone to help him save Jazz (who was in peril through no fault of Orion's). I'm sorry, but saying he was selfish goes beyond what we see.
I would like to point out somethings, like the time Elita was fired, Orion was willing to take the fall, or the time that Sentinel came to talk to Orion and D-16, Orion thinking that they were in trouble was willing to take the fall. Even though the writers made Orion selfish, the selfish bot was showing that he cares for the bots he call friends an willing to do anything to protect them, and was willing to stand in front and protect the one he called brother.
I feel Orion more impulsive/ "act first think later" kind of guy. Not really selfish, more like he didn't think how his action affect people around him
Sometimes I feel like Orion's development goes much more unnoticed than D-16's. When I saw the movie I immediately noticed D's development, but when I thought about the movie I couldn't help but think more about Orion. The character writing in this movie is amazing. 10:50 This was the scene that made me cry in the cinema (this video, for some reason, made me cry too).
It´s incredible how good this movie is. The central plot is a perfect distillation of their many origin comics, flashbacks and novels. Iacon and Cybertron look amazing. The screen is populated by so many transformers it´s insane, and you can recognize dozens of them. It´s fanservice in all the ways it can be.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Orion being selfish because you can look at him dragging D-16 into doing shenanigans as a way for him to save D from an abusive relationship with the system.
@@bradleyadams5252 Oreo Packs need the matrix of Sweetership in order to place order and freedom in all of Candytron, its alot more complicated than the feud you speak of. I'm sure along with his friend, Snicker 16 wouldn't make the situation worse.
This movie made me very emotional. Optimus Prime is a very important character to me. As much as I love the bayverse movies for what they are I will admit over the years Prime's character has slowly started to bother me. I grew up looking up to him, I even applied a lot of his core beliefs to my own life growing up. It's really silly to say that a giant fictional alien robot that turns into a semi-truck has shaped my moral compass growing but it's the truth. Good or bad, right or wrong. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
Everytime I hear that story it gives me chills. Honestly it will be so sad when peter and Frank's time comes. Him,Frank, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are truly irreplaceable. They all truly embody their characters.
I Personally didn't Mind Chris Hemsworth's Vocal Performance as Orion/Optimus, (He was Decent imo) But You Know what would've made This Version of Optimus Extra Peak? if He was Voiced by *Keith David.* Like Seriously, HOW TF has That Casting Not Happened Yet? Lol
This is well analyzed and presented. However, I disagree rather strongly with several of your assertions. Orion Pax does start off somewhat rash, which he does need to grow beyond to be a good leader, but I would not go so far as to call him "selfish" and I absolutely do not agree that being "trouble" in an oppressive, unjust society is somehow purely a flaw to be overcome when it's the troublemakers that drive positive systemic change. Just because D-16 claims that Orion only thinks about himself does not make it objectively true. Orion is the one who from the very beginning was seeking a solution that would improve the lot of all the miners, not just himself, where D-16 would've been content to be a cog in the system forever. And I find it somewhat disingenuous that on the one hand you blame society for Megatron's crimes while on the other hand, you blame Orion for not conforming to that very same society just because being heroic brings negative consequences from a corrupt regime. Also, you place rather undue emphasis on "fixing his mistakes" when it comes to Optimus receiving the Matrix and the ending of the film when I did not get that impression at all. Primus granting Orion the Matrix is him validating Orion's choices and convictions. I'm not sure where you're getting "Primus wants Optimus to right his own wrongs" from that. Optimus is successfully reforming society by bringing back the flow of energon and returning the miners' cogs, thereby eliminating the discriminatory caste system for good, and defending his people from Cybertron's true enemies the Quintessons. He's not thinking about fighting Megatron. You seem to be framing civil war as inevitable, but that's from a meta perspective, not an in-universe one. It's Megatron who is fixated on tearing down Optimus and for what? It's Megatron who chooses to start the war, not Optimus. This all skirts a little too closely to blaming Orion/Optimus for Megatron's own decisions. Yes, Megatron is partially a product of the system. Yes, Orion did have a hand in shaping him. But that does not at all erase Megatron's culpability or the fact that regardless of whatever "influences," Megatron's choices are his own responsibility, no one else's.
orion for me embodies the right for citizen who always question and thought deeply about the ruler of his kin while d16 is a gear in the system just blindly putting trust in things he think is good honestly if d16 didn't go with pax discovering the truth he would never question his existent in the mines but when he knows the truth he's a gear that broke off from the cycles and decided to no longer follow anybody but his own self desire and being right which compare to real life world leader who have the same mindset already said alot about what megs about to do in the future movies(crossing my finger on the trilogy happening)
Something I just noticed is that when D-16 fires his fusion cannon and mortally wounds Orion, his arm goes wildly upwards, as if he can't control the recoil of his weapon. It's such a small detail, but it has some vast implications for his character. He's not in control of his own power, he's not able to trust himself, he's not-- he's not as strong as he thinks he is. And that moment of realization is what sets his fall into Megatron in motion. For all of his life, D-16 has been concerned with the consequences of his actions. He constantly tries to figure out what will happen after something happens (i.e. "If we survive this, I will kill you", "We are going to be demoted", etc.) But the one thing I don't think he could ever predicting is that he might hurt his only real friend. He pleads and tries to understand how Orion could have done that, but he just... he just can't. And that, more than anything, breaks him. He's always been pulling Orion out of trouble, always thinking through what happens after "Another Orion Pax Master Plan", and seeing his friend not only throw himself in danger, but throw himself in danger at D-16 for someone as terrible as Sentinel Prime? That has to feel like the ultimate betrayal, but also the ultimate failure on D-16's part. He couldn't protect his friend from themselves. This, more than anything, cements his radicalization. "I'm done saving you" isn't just something he says to Orion, it's something he has to say to himself. He has tried his best to understand consequence, and he just can't anymore. So he gives up. He becomes reckless, because he has nothing to lose-- not his position in society, not his dead idol and the false Prime who killed him, and not his friend. Speaking of Orion, I appreciate that he is so selfish, so reckless, so impulsive, because that just makes the wisdom and humility of Optimus Prime understandable. Optimus Prime is everything D-16 would have wanted in a Prime, but D-16 is gone. Orion Pax may have looked up to Megatron with his incendiary and impulsive rhetoric, but Orion Pax is dormant. Orion was impulsive because he was tired of the system telling him what he could be and what he could do, but he never internalized the same level of self-hatred as D-16. Both were abused by the system, but one was able to grow past this, and the other was consumed by it. The two are perfect foils for each other in their character arcs.
While I agree that making both Orion Pax and D-16 part of the lower class makes the character transition from best friends to bitter enemies all the more impactful, It doesn't however feel right for a character like Orion to be born in the role of lower class name-wise. What I mean by that is Orion Pax is a proper name for someone, it's gives the idea of a person who if not from the social elite is still born from a higher ranking in society. D-16 in the other hand is more of a throw-away name, the kind of name used for the mass-produced lower class who's only purpose is to do menial labor.
Urge to re-watch TFOne rising... Great work, as always! I think you're right on the money, having Pax and D-16 start off as part of the same social class really enhances the story once they become Optimus and Megatron, because the divergence comes down to personal choices rather than being lucky enough to be an archivist rather than a miner.
Amazing job and interesting and orion pax (optimus prime) and d - 16 (megatron)is similar to splinter ( hamato yoshi) and oroku saki(shredder) from tmnt 2012 series both both are best friends or brothers become ach enemies
One critique I will say is that in the continuity of both Henry and Hemsworth's performance by the vocal direction given to them. Credit where credit is due, both actors can give spectacular performances. But in the direction, it tempers delivery to give cohesive entertainment to the audience.
There's a lot I felt like one might miss in the final fight scene and it only took me watching it a few times to really catch on. D-16, or Megatron, learns from all of his encounters FAST. With his fight vs Starscream, he gleams the notion of Might over All. Where the core principle of the decepticons and high guard would eventually manifest. Then, during his first fight with Sentinel, Sentinel uses his armcannon transformation to grapple D-16 and sling him. Megatron would then use his own blaster as a fighting move- Striking Optimus in the face, mirroring Sentinel's fight with him. There's room to argue that this is the power afforded to him by Megatronus' T-Cog, but Optimus displayed the same level of choreographical mastery, swapping between forms to his advantage. And speaking of the same fight, where he controls a sort of half-and-half form to use his Tank Mode cannon on his back, I'd argue that it's also reminescent of Megatronus' hologram in Alpha Trion's display when he got on the ground to launch his micro-missiles.
I'm realy happy I found your channel cuz your analysis on this simple but effective character was really well done! I loved how you tied Orions growth and D-16's as a kind of tragedy! Keep it up, I would love to see more transformer stuff too!
I think the difference with violence between Megatron and Optimus is that violence and destruction are always Megatron's/D-16's first choice. D didn't HAVE to destroy that tracker bot, but he relished in his first kill which is somewhat (understandably so) appalling to both the audience and Orion. He didn't HAVE to almost choke Starscream out and blow his head off, but he did anyways. Megatron even says that's the last time he'll ever show mercy, which is very telling of his ideologies and his personality "Tear it down! All of it!!!" Meanwhile, Optimus/Orion only default to violence when the moment calls for it, like stopping Sentinel's forces so they could expose him or fighting Megatron himself to stop him from destroying Iacon. It's all the differences underneath that make the characters so deep and well-written in this movie.
Another hit to my emo-guts is that Orion arguably was the best kind of leader the miners could've asked for. He still had that aura that he's still one of them despite his being a reckless citizen. With him in command, the miners had the confidence that things will be fine beyond Sentinel's rule. After all, if this guy can break protocol alone, they could break protocol together. Meanwhile, Megatron was the leader the High Guard needed to finally defeat Sentinel Prime. For all his talk about the strength of one bot over another, Starscream too felt cheated by the false Prime, and wanted so badly to at least see him die a brutal and immoral death, but simply saw too much that he just can't really turn that dream real. Megatron was blind to what the High Guard went through, but all he knew was he's pissed by the very person he once revered, and now that he had a T-Cog, he wouldn't stop at anything to get what he wished for - the death of Sentinel. He didn't just steal the High Guard from Starscream, he gave them hope that the High Guard wouldn't instantly get obliterated if they march to Iacon and settle some scores. The moment Megatron tore Sentinel apart was the moment everyone knew that the High Guard was solidly under his command. That hope turned into jubilation, then into perverse pride and the drive to conquer once again. This can easily harken back to his WFC days. WFC Megatron beat Omega Supreme with barely an aid, surely his followers would also step up.
Peter Cullen never voiced the original Orion Pax. Hemsworth said that he could've sounded more like Cullen, but the director said no, because his character hadn't *earned* the right to sound like Peter Cullen. This is a far cry from the Netflix War For Cybertron Trilogy which is chock full of unearned moments.
Delta trion:”You don’t scare me. You wanna know why?” Paramount:”Please.” Delta rune:”Because I don’t have anything left to lose…You, copyrighted it all.”
Chris Hemsworth's performance does mirror the character arc of Orion. In the first act all I heard was Thor, but as the movie went on Chris has "disolved" into the role and by the 3rd act he was 100% Optimus Prime, just as the character himself grew from Orion Pax into Optimus Prime. I would be floored if that was intentional, but it is an interesting parallel.
I would also add that Orion can take blame for breaking protocol/saving Jazz all he wants, Elita got fired because from the perspective of upper management, she cannot control her employee. So naturally she gets the boot.
The one thing I find slightly 'off' is the constant usage of 'selfish' with Orion Pax; mainly because yes he is, but it isn't a core defining trait with the bot. Yes in his optimism and exuberance, he can be selfish in not seeing the consequences of the downsides of his plans and actions have on others; absolutely agree there. However his very actions were born from a selfless desire, it was always to prove that ANY, and EVERY Cybertronain could be more than their 'station' in life, Cogless or equipped with one. He wanted to find the Matrix to restore the flow of Energon so they didn't need to mine for it anymore, and their needed energy source wasn't a rationed resource anymore. Some of the video's talking points seem to frame Orion as a glory seeker for himself; albeit with good intentions for everyone else; I feel this is erronous, and misunderstood due to the 'over-focus' on the 'selfish' aspect of Orion's persona which comes off as more of a surface thing. This version of Orion reminds me of Hot Rod, brash and immature, but with a good Spark; but even at his most 'selfish in the eyes of others' the intention is always in service to others more than himself. Now am I dismissing he doesn't have personally selfish moments or goals? No; I just feel the 'surface selfishness' is constantly harped on when there's a deeper level to his motives. Now let me be frank, yes good intention doesn't always result in good outcomes, nor should you still step on others. D-16 did suffer for Orion's hubris, and that is well documented and discussed in the video and is a good example of where Orion's good intentions were ill-thought out, and got someone else hurt alongside him. Also I wouldn't even throw in Elita's firing to Orion's actions; that was Dark Wing being a prick; despite the mine collapsing which was no fault of anyone; Dark Wing who could have critically surveyed the situation and realized it was a win because nobody died and thus they could have a full mining force get back to it despite the collapse. Instead Dark Wing does what he does best, putting 'miners' down despite he didn't need to. After all this guy instead of taking D-16 and Orion Pax to Sentinel's personal maintenance facility, dropped them into the Lvl 50 garbage chutes because he was pissed off they cost him a spot in the race. He literally disobied his leader's orders to fulfill his own bullying tendencies, so Elita's firing is just another sign of his being a prick than Orion's actions; Elita just blamed Orion because of the protocol break, instead of taking into account WHO dished out the order. Regarding how his actions resonate with D-16, I'm again torn because the video almost makes it sound like Orion's actions lead to the birth of Megatron directly; perhaps to some degree but very, VERY minor. D-16 is a repressed bot holding in a lot of rage against the system oppressing him, but when the truth is discovered, suddenly he lets out everything, his rage, as well as his own well-kept selfish behavior. Everything is 'I' and 'Me', showcasing how he views everything affecting him, without much thought on how others are affected, the fact he blames Orion for bringing them to the surface, and revealing the TRUTH... D-16 would have rathered rotted to scrap in servitude if it meant his 'peace' wasn't disturbed. Once he gets power through a T-Cog, his selfish behavior escalates. While Orion's words to him before the fusion shot are indeed BADLY worded, D-16's actions are still his own; because as badly worded as it was, Orion was right, if D-16 continued on his vengeful, *selfish* path he would become like Sentinel but just in a different coat of paint. D-16 was too enraptured of his own needs for revenge, he murdered his own brother, and doubled down on taking down EVERYONE in his way, innocent or not. Upon being given the power to choose their fate, D-16 gave into his rage, and worst traits, while Orion began to learn to correct his own bad traits and improve his better ones. D-16 is honestly the more 'selfish' of the two bots and just hid it better in the first act; but I do agree Orion Pax DOES indeed have selfish qualities that lessen as the movie goes on and he realizes he needs to think more long term than in the short-term, or let his excitment at the 'endgoal' oversee how he might be stepping on others to get to it. Great video overall despite my nitpick I probably went overboard goin on about. I do agree with the thematics of Orion Pax having a more meaningful 'growth' into the hero we know, which includes giving him more flaws to overcome. In a way they took Hot Rod's rushed journey in Transformers the Movie 1986 and perfected that journey here in Transformers: One.
Wait Chris and Tyree never met during the production? They're dynamic was just as good as the dialogue in Bojack and rhe reason why the dialogue was so good in Bojack was because they made the VAs meet with eachother and talk
That makes me remember that when they were making the TMNT: Mutant Mayhem movie, they had all four of the turtles' VAs in the same room doing their lines together. At least, I'm pretty sure they did that.
I grew up with Optimus, but I've learned that it's those who broke rules and convention that are the most interesting, and can have the best perspective. So, I really like this version of Optimus. If makes his character more interesting.
I wouldn't say that Orion was selfish, so much as Self-Centred. A selfish character, like Sentinel is knowingly self-serving at the expense of others. Knowingly ruining other people's lives for his own benefit. A self-centred character like Orion is mostly concerned with his own goals, but is simply oblivious as to how his actions will affect those around him. However, I think "selfish to selfless" angle does fit in Elita's character arc. When Orion and D-16 save Jazz, Elita seems less concerned with the safety of the workers under her supervision and more concerned with how it affects her career. A complete 180 to the final battle, where she tries to get Megatron to stop shooting.
Looking back, it hits harder now when Hot Rod squared up with Galvatron in the 80s movie. If only TFO Orion became G1 Optimus, Galvatron would've seen Orion in Hot Rod.
I do not give the movie makers points for not making Orion and archives. Because in the episode, Wardon from the G1 cartoon series, Orion was not an archives. He was a doc worker who unloaded John and put it into warehouses. That was his job. Not too far off. I guess from the minor top job. However, the absolutely was not an academic in any way. Also, according to that episode, Orion and Megatron never were friends. People forget about the original origin for the transformers. We have a really pretty one that’s been built over the years from the Michael Bay movies and comics and other cartoons. That become sense. But this type of thing is never there. Original storyline. Now Transformers prime did refer to Megatron as a gladiator. Not a minor, however in the original G1 cartoon series that story is told that Cybertron was a manufacturing hub. They made domestic robots and military robots. Domestics became the auto bots and the military robots became the Deceptacon. That your real origin not this. As pretty as this movie is and don’t get me wrong. It was a pretty decent movie for what it was. But it is not the real origin of these characters. It’s just one that works well together. I suppose. For some reason we had to have that cane and Abel type of Relationship between Optimus and Megatron. Except in this one, Kane did not get the chance to kill Abel. To me, the origin of the Transformers was set out in episode like war and then later season three episodes you see flashbacks and you see their origins. Why we did not stick to that. I don’t know. There’s been a lot of reimagining a lot of changes. I think the original origin story could’ve been absolutely awesome. If done the right way. Instead, we go down a path that we’ve seen before time and time again brother against brother. How many times we seen that in TV shows and movies? If we had gone with the original origin, it would not have been a brother against brother. They weren’t even brothers. At best they might’ve been cousins. We were still probably seeing a trope we’ve seen before. Aggressive military trying to take down the citizen or the weaker. But at least that version isn’t as done to death as this brother against brother thing. They’re all tropes. And it would have been just as good if not better in many ways than what we get.
Actually, no. Orion wasn’t a selfish person who only thought of himself. He’s just free-spirited and reckless. That’s the reason why TF One also introduced another POV of Elita-1. Both her and D-16 got into trouble thanks to Orion’s reckless actions but unlike D-16, once Elita found out the truth, she understood that what Orion did wasn’t from malicious or “selfish” intent (because if he’s those two, why did he save Jazz in the first place?). It’s just from his blind optimism which is what is needed right now in a bleak world, hence his name of “Optimus Prime”. Plus, Elita didn’t go on a rampage trying to burn down the whole city like D-16. Elita exists to show that D-16 has a choice to do good but he chose to do evil anyway. Actually, it’s not just Elita. Orion as well. This movie bent over backwards to make Orion a slave just like D-16 to create a direct contrast of choices between these two. I think this is a peril of a sympathetic villain. It’s so easy for the audience to side with him and demonize the hero like Optimus just because Megatron is more “relatable”. Also, blaming Optimus for the creation of Megatron and putting Cybertron into chaos is so unfair, considering that what he did was just discovering the truth. The ones who actually created Megatron are Sentinel and Megatron himself, and Optimus even asked Megatron to cooperate (after Megatron shot his arm off and dropped him to die. Optimus was way too generous, if you ask me) and Megatron attacked him anyway.
@@nont18411 you can be selfish without malicious intent though. Orion means well by his actions that are selfish (being more than a miner) but his actions have consequences.
@@DeltaTrion Yes, but the point that I disagree with is when you said something like “Cybertron is now in ruined thanks to Orion’s selfish actions”. Cybertron has been in ruin since the beginning because Sentinel enslaved the entire planet and sold his own people out to the Quintessons. And it went to ruin even further because Megatron decided to create a terrorist group that is the Decepticons to wage war specifically against Optimus. What Optimus did was just exposing the truth. He’s an equivalent of a journalist who exposed the truth of war crimes committed by the government or a doctor who diagnosed a hidden cancer inside a patient. He’s only responsible for the discovery of the truth but he’s not responsible for Cybertron getting destroyed. And after all, once he took actions, he never lost the focus of the real enemy who enslaved them in the first place like the Quintessons. Meanwhile, Megatron never cares about Quintessons. It’s all about revenge against Optimus. This is what destroys Cybertron, not Orion’s recklessness.
@ I wouldn’t say the whole planet has been in ruin in full under Sentinels reign. In fact, the planet seems to be flourishing in some areas because of his class system, which makes it even that more evil. Orions actions, along with D’s, do cause the start of what will most likely be the war however that will ravage the planet. If we get that point in the continuity.
@@DeltaTrion And that’s how oppression works. Sentinel deliberately made the planet looks “peaceful and prosperous in some area” despite the truth being the opposite to keep people in line and himself stay in power. Just compare to the real life, the Nazi Germany might be one of the most evil regimes in world’s history but it also had a lot of scientific and economic development in some form. Still, it needed to be destroyed to free people from their oppression. It’s not the Allies’ fault for destroying them. Same as it’s not Orion’s fault for exposing the truth. Plus, Optimus didn’t start the war. He asked Megatron to build the future together. Megatron denied it anyway. The blame for the war is certainly more on Megatron’s shoulders than Optimus. The only part that I could blame Optimus was not killing Megatron when he had a chance and let the Decepticons live but that’s because Megatron was his friend and the war is a canon event for this franchise.
It was more d that destroyed cybertron his love of the megatronuis and sentinel was the reason he became megatron after he became megatron he destroyed cybertron via waging war on Orion
Good video but I don’t agree with all of what you are saying. I don’t think Orion was selfish. He was focused on the greater good of the planet. He was a leader that was learning himself and how to lead at the same time. He didn’t do anything out of self interest alone. True he would have benefited but it was always about the whole, never the one. Even entering the race, was about the upper class seeing ALL minors as more than just labor and useless. It is hard for someone who is not a natural leader to truly understand the actions of a natural, good leader. One last thing, if he was selfish, he would’ve NEVER sacrificed himself at the end. And the matrix wouldn’t have picked him. He was picked because he had pure motives the entire movie, even if one didn’t see it. It’s not just the actions that dictate a selfish person, but their motives/intent which does. A selfish person can do selfless acts to further his own self. Intent, motives are important especially in this case. D-16 became who he was because that was who he was on the inside. From the moment he got power, he started changing. It wasn’t because of Orion, it was because that’s who he was at his core. Everyone must be responsible for their own actions. No one can make you do anything. They both chose their paths.
At least the 2005-2018 run of the IDW comics put Orion Pax on a somewhat lower level closer to Megatron. Sure Megs was a miner turned gladiator turned Decepticon leader, but Pax was now a cop turned security guard for the Senate turned bearer of the Matrix/Leader of the Autobots.
Orion is not selfish per se, just fails to properly take D-16's PoV into consideration and communicate his intent: He wants to share the benefits of his antics with his brother, and ultimately with others. The race got both recognized by Sentinel, albeit their ignorance of his malevolence lead to a predicament. All of them got T-cogs and the truth, as a result of his quest to find the Matrix, and ultimately everyone did as well as energon flowing again. Is this video based off that D-16 "you never think of anything but yourself"? Also, D-16 is not a produce of the system. He is a product of idolizing authorities, and him bottling up his frustration and anger, plus a very nasty habit of playing the blame game any time something goes wrong. That is why the contrast between the two works so well. However, the parallel that everyone seems to miss is Elita and D: 1)Both are borderline obsessed with the rewards promised by an exploitative system, to the unhealthy point of Elita lowkey not caring for others lives and D making excuses for abuse of power. 2) They both have anger issues, but D bottles it up while Elita expresses it more openly. 3) Both are pessimistic, but Elita does not emotionally invest in the system or governance nor idolizes others. And ultimately she invests in Orion by recognizing that his antics have reaped a greater value than the detriment from the risks he takes, which BTW are none his fault. Nothing that went wrong was due to Orion's pushing everyone towards his extremely stupid but courageous choices, yet every reward from these adventures only were attained because of his breaking protocol.
The only motive we know about why Orion Pax breaks the rules is that he wants to help others. From the moment we saw D-16 he had clear me and mine mindset a if it is not him or his friend then than is not his problem.
My one problem is that he became a prime in this movie. I don't doubt that he would be a good prime, but I wish they had waited until the next one for him to truly be a prime.
![UNDERVERSE 0.8 Part 1 [By Jakei]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tpvYmYL-cko/mqdefault.jpg)
When Orion gave his speech, he knelt on the same levels as his followers.
In contrast to D16, when he gave his speech, he stood above everyone else.
Simple visual storytelling but it’s a great foreshadowing what kind of leader each of them is gonna be.
@@nont18411 wonderful observation.
@@DeltaTrion And when Sentinel kneel to the Quintessons, everyone (both Cogged and Cogless together) in Iacon turned against him.
@@TheWarmachine375to be fair, the Quintessons were the original reason why they were no longer on the surface, no?
@@leeseth Basically!
Orion was so genuine in that moment. That was one of his best inspirational speeches in the whole franchise and he’s not even a prime yet
I really liked how he contrasted d16 with regards to him being willing to give d16 the credit for finding the matrix for sentinel prime when it was his idea that he wanted for the good of his people
That was just a ploy to get D16 to do his thing. He spends the whole movie doing this. Flat out scamming him into doing the race. This culminates in a scene where he's ignoring D16's feelings on wanting to kill Sentinel and is willing to die to protect Sentinel just so things get done his way. He never stops being selfish, but his desires happen to align with Primus.
@ajh22895 I don't think getting in between d and sentinel and getting killed in the process is selfish but okay 🤷
@@ajh22895Why is it that ppl villainize Orion stopping D-16 from killing Sentinel??? It’s so obvious it was never about Sentinel, it was about stopping D-16 from going to far
@@ajh22895pax only got in the way because he believes killing isn't right
@@CoolMan12948 To be fair, this kind of problem happened to so many superheroes as well. They have no qualms killing nameless henchmen then start drawing the line of “killing is wrong” when it’s the main bad guy.
Optimus Prime began life as a reckless rule-breaking troublemaker and turned into a selfless hero. While Megatron began life as an obedient rule-following model citizen and turned into a ruthless villain.
The Irony
He was anything BUT a slacker. He worked HARD to learn about his people and their history.
Fixed it.
It's not just about their actions, but their motivations and goals. Yes, Orion is a reckless trouble makes, but he's always trying to help others and build a freer more equal Cybertron.
Whereas D-16 is only obedient because he bought into Sentinel's lie that the only thing, he could ever be was lowly miner. Even before meeting the high guard, he's already fully indoctrinated into the belief that the weak serve while the strong rule, the only thing that changes for him is which of those two categories he considers himself part of.
@@EmeralBookwise Otion does drag D-16 in his problem while hoping to help others. Like continuely breaking into the archives to research where the matrix of leadership.
D-16 does have a "me and mine" mindset. If it is not him or his friend apart of it then it not an issue to him and just follow the rules.
The problem Optimus had back when he was Orion was lack of consideration for other people. That’s what partially turned D-16 into Megatron. Because Orion kept making plans involving other people without their input.
Yess exactly. Orion always had good intentions, but he's bad at respecting people's boundaries. Like, dragging D-16 to the race? I know people like to harp that "ooh but it worked out in the end, it led to good things, D-16 liked racing in the end", it doesn't detract from the fact it was a shitty thing to do. Imagine you've explicitly said you don't wanna do a thing, maybe bc it's too dangerous for you or you simply don't want to, and your friend STILL drags you into it - it's disrespectful at best and hurtful at worst. Heck, if a surgery is supposed to save your life, even doctors still has to respect your decision if you want to reject the surgery. Orion couldn't even respect Dee's No on minor things and it's little wonder why D-16 harbored resentment over time. And I did like that D-16 calling him out on his impetuous behavior led to Orion changing that later down the line - instead of dragging the miners into the fight, instead he talks to them properly and asks them for help. An earlier Orion wouldn't have done that.
Yeah, and he never stops doing this. Note when he defeats Megatron, he accuses him of betrayal. Because Megatron did not do things his way.
@ajh22895 um...letting go and dropping him IS a betrayal of THE highest order. And killing Sentinel without THE PEOPLE'S permission was a betrayal because the people may not have wanted that at all. Everything was happening too fast, and then D-16 kills Sentinel.
@@ajh22895 It WAS betrayal, he dropped him off, "oh but he was trying to save sentinel", no he wasn't, he was trying to save D-16 from getting in a path that has no way back
@@davidawilliams252 Oh right, he should have picked him up and given him another chance to save Sentinel.
THE AGE OF WAITING IS OVER.
COME WITH ME, AND YOU WILL NEVER BE WITHOUT A DELTA TRION VIDEO AGAIN!
Goated pfp
@ Why thank you! It’s only logical, don’t you think?
@@Mr.G-0971 Only the most logical!
(It's my current PFP on discord so I got a bit of a start when I thought I saw myself commenting)
@@purplezekrom Really? Weird coincidence I guess!
WAAAKE UUUUP!!!!
I like how Orion was flawed in this movie. We're already used to the seasoned hero we all know and love, but this is such a refreshing take on Optimus.
Orion being a miner makes his origins more relatable and his road to Primacy more tragic, since Orion and D are in the same class. Orion can truly understand what D when through. This is not to disregard the previous interactions of OP. But I actually like his origins in this movie.
Though Orion means well, he is so focused on what he wants that he fails to consider D's feelings (seen especially in their time in sub level 50 and when they discovered the truth).
When D angerly told him that "he only thinks of himself". I didn't understand that sceen on my first watching. Thinking how Orion could be selfish when he's trying his best to find the matrix.
Then I realized that D was actually more upset with the fact that his recklessness is what drags him into trouble. He got punched by Darkwing and got sent to sub level 50 because of Orion. Even if was unintentional on Orion's part.
The cave scene is also significant because you can already see the contrast between D and Orion.
Orion uses pronouns like 'we' and 'us'. He's less vengeful and he focused more on the bigger picture. Meanwhile D uses 'I' a lot and is more forecful and brutal.
It's a subtle word choice, but it managed to make them stand out as characters. TF One makes you want to root for the both of them.
I actually haven't finished watching your video as of writing, but after watching your D-16 video. I just had to gush about Orion lol.
Keep up the good work!
You realize Pax was a dock worker back in G1, right? Pax's origins have always been from humble backgrounds that was raised up to Prime for his bravery and/or heroics.
@@leoncoben6983 I think in one comic Orion Pax was a police officer, but your point still stands.
While I agree Orion is a bit naive and impetuous, I wouldn’t go so far to call it selfishness. Yeah, he got D into some escapades, but part of the reason he dragged him along was because D never had any real aspirations. He, like a lot of people who believed in the system, were only content with their station because it was the only way to cope with the situations they were in; like being abused by Darkwing. They were brainwashed into thinking it’s all they were good for, and like many victims of abuse, tell themselves it’s fine to avoid facing the reality of it.
Orion got D that Megatronus sticker because he knew how much D idolized the guy and wanted to support his individual interests.
To your point about D blaming Orion, D was the one thinking about himself and how Sentinel betrayed HIM, not his friends or all of Cybertron. He chose to blindly believe in Sentinel and could not take responsibility for this mistake and would rather blame Orion for taking him out of his ignorance. D was actually happy to go on the surface trip with him.
Also, when D started taking charge, Orion was more concerned with D getting more aggressive with him and the others. He was genuinely scared of what D was becoming and tried to help him.
This!!! Your comment is THE ONE!!! So on point. Love it.
Insisting that your own idea of what others should want (or 'aspire to') is more important than their actual wants _is_ selfishness.
@@somdudewillson While I agree, and am not contesting Orion should have been more mindful of this, that is not what he was trying to do. D wanted to stay in line because that's what he was taught to do. Its all they knew and never questioned, so what they wanted was the same thing most people want: to stay in line and follow protocol in perceived comfort. If I were to offer a better way to describe Orion's flaws and arc: its the transition from impulsive naivety to responsible optimism.
And lets not forget the truth is it was all a lie convincing them to be used by Sentinel. No matter how many times Darkwing abused them or left others to die, his only response was stay in line. Heck, when Jazz needed to be saved, Darkwing punished them for it even though Orion took responsibility for the incident. If everyone is just gonna accept that kind of treatment, then its very telling of society as a whole.
The message I take from Optimus' character arc is that overcoming naivety but still choosing to be an optimist afterwards is a valid (and often necessary) way to live. No matter how the world works and throws at us, we need to have ideals about how we want things to be.
The medium of art is a reflection of that mentality. The idea that expressions of thoughts have a place in reality and must be encouraged. They don't need to have a materialistic form to have worth.
Literally put my thoughts into words! Absolutely brilliant!
I fear you missed the beauty of Orion's origins from the Aligned Continuity.
The entire point was that he was basically an upper middle class bot (not the worst affected by the Caste system) but when confronted with the corruption and injustice plaguing society he didn't just accept it, he sought a way to fix it. He was just an average bot willing to take a stand because it's the right thing to do, and that's pretty inspiring.
That's not to say the new origin in TFOne wasn't a good idea or that it wasn't executed well, it was, but your assessment of the Aligned origin (of which TFOne's is closest to) felt rather dismissive, more focused on the superficial appearance of it and not the actual substance behind it.
It's a simillar background to Batman's origin story, allthough not as extreme. Where someone of a higher position uses his resource to help those in the lower class because he doesn't want anyone to go through the pain that he experienced.
The message being that you can take a stand against Injustice no matter what position you are in or the privilege you have.
18:05 In response to those "Megatron did nothing wrong" comments: I've been saying for a while now that it's a tad disturbing whenever someone says that a VILLAIN does nothing wrong and actually agrees with their methods. It makes me question their very personhood. Transformers One is a great example that just because you can understand where a villain comes from does not mean they are right, especially when Orion comes from the same background. D-16 had every right to feel upset about Sentinel's betrayal, but the way he went about it wrong, allowing rage to cloud his judgement and letting the darkness corrupt his soul, unlike Pax who was just as upset but still sought out justice, not vengeance. Just because you come from a bad background doesn't mean you can't rise above and become something better. That's why Primus gave Pax the Matrix, not D.
Just a reminder of what differentiates a hero and a villain: a hero treats others the way he wishes to be treated; a villain treats others the way he was treated.
@@MrAwsomeness360 Said this twice and I will say it again. This is the danger that came from a sympathetic villain. Spending too much in their twisted mind can easily corrupt the audience’s minds to justify the villain’s actions simply because the audience feels “represented” by them.
That’s why I love the Penguin. Just the villain being evil, not a sympathetic misunderstood guy with tragic life.
The penguin was a bit too sympathetic and Vic paid for it
My favorite character detail of Orion is that while he is reckless, he also shows that he is observant and quick on his feet when a plan changes. This is especially shown during the Iacon 5000, where he determines that the magnetic obstacle has the same pattern as the exhaust port. He's a very intelligent individual. He just needed to learn some self discipline.
He is just like me fr
Im literally optimus
Hey I remember you. You're the giy who makes those TFONE character compilations
When Ratchet said that Orion Pax was like Jack Darby, he wasn't kidding.
That's from a different continuity though
@@justalurker13 I think it still technically applies from a thematic standpoint.
@@astralboyo how? They are nothing alike at all.
@@davidawilliams252 Well, both characters got picked on and wished for something more in the beginning, didn't they?
@astralboyo Probably because Jack didn't want anything to do with the Autobots while Orion wanted to show everyone his potential
The tribute to Captain Larry Cullen is something that makes me smile with respect.❤
Sentinel's cruelty created Megatron, who destroyed him. Megatron's rage created Optimus, who defeated him. Evil creates its own destruction, the only way anything can last is to break the cycle of revenge with optimism and kindness.
That's a much better way of putting it. Optimus didn't create Megatron, he was always trying to save his brother, at first from a life toiling in the mines, and later from going down the path of violent revenge. He always wanted a better life for everyone, including his brother.
Even when circumstances drive them apart and Megatron becomes a danger to everyone else, Optimus only banishes him from Iacon, clearly still hoping his former brother can at least make a better life for himself on the surface.
Optimist Prime
Honestly just “Transformers Two” would be such a fire name for the sequel. I can’t write some massive essay about it, but it could symbolize how Optimus and Megatron are divided and infighting now-they’re split in “Two.”
Until all are one.
One shal rise. And and one shal fall.
Decepticons: Betraying Starscream and following Megatron instead after he won the fight because they believe in “Strength of one bot over another”.
Also Decepticons: Somehow are still loyal to Megatron after he got his ass kicked by Optimus. They kinda forgot about their own philosophy, huh?
Probably pledged loyalty to Megatron after learning that what he planned to do aligned with their goals.
This would make no sense with a surface-level reading, but the high guard wanted sentinal dead, and Megatron achieved that goal. To them, he is more of a leader than Optimus, because he actually got the job done.
@@Deadlyspark Interesting point
@@Deadlyspark plus optimus rejects the highguard. He banished all of them anyways.
The main reason is that, while Optimus beats Megatron, he doesn't do it to further the Decepticon cause and thus the conflict of interest makes him ineligible for usurping leadership. The Decepticon leader position is taken when another Cybertronian who wants to further the Decepticon cause defeats the previous leader as proof of strength to lead the cause better. So if you're not on board with the Deception agenda, the Deception rules don't apply to you.
Its funny that ironically Orion's own reasons of being selfish align into purely selfless motivations. He wants the other miners to be more respected and be seen as equal or deserving their rights of mutual respect and freedom, including himself and D. He wants to help find the Matrix not to be viewed as a hero, but to better help the people around him and all of Cybertron, to help Sentinel as he saw things back then. Hell he works his ass off in the mines enthusiastically to impress Elita and he's dedicated to his job despite it being a shitty and dangerous position. All of that and as others remark on the movie, goes on his life on a very optimistic view with others outside of D himself. Now that he didn't have to directly push his way through life as to earn the ability to transform, he immediately worried and went along with what Alpha Trion told him, because both knew everyone deserved to know what Sentinel had done.
While Megatron's real goals and dreams aren't to just be respected, he wants to be at the top of Cybertron, to be next to Sentinel Prime and be just like him, to be just as strong and powerful as Megatronus was, that's exactly why he admired them, you don't ever hear someone speak of what kind of bot Megatronus was, only his strength thanks to Sentinel's change in society. And even funnier, he followed his life strictly to the system and rules wishing for one day he could reach that dream of looking below Cybetron, as I can interpret it. And because how else could he possibly get there without a cog or stirring commotion? He went on to achieve his goals on a very selfless ways, but now that he had the ability to transform and the power he previously wished for? He immediately stopped caring directly for others, he didn't really care about showing the rest of Cybertron what Sentinel had done, if anything he would've ditched Orion Elita and Bee and would've gone with the High Guard to kill Sentinel himself and potentially burn Iacon to the ground if not for Airachnid taking them to Sentinel.
14:31 an analysis of this scene I have seen on Tumblr that I agree with a lot is that Orion wasn’t actually expecting D to blast at Sentinel, or at least at himself, and was hoping to talk D down from killing Sentinel. You can really see the surprise in Orion’s face after he’s shot, as if he wasn’t expecting to be hit, that backs up this interpretation of Orion’s actions here.
Great video analysis my man.
Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly excellent as Optimus Prime/Orion Pax, and it really shocked me how much range he has as an actor/voice actor since Im pretty sure this was one of Chris Hemsworth's first voice-acting roles (other than voicing Thor in the Disney+ Marvel What If animated series). Hemsworth really sounded like a young Peter Cullen, and Im glad he actually met with Peter to truly honour the character and what Peter has brought to the role by finding the best way to nail the voice but give his own spin on Optimus that feels original.
I especially love his characterisation as it made more sense to make him a fellow miner than to make him a librarian, just like D-16 was. As you said, it makes their falling out more painful/meaningful and gives Orion/Optimus a better understanding to what it means to come from the lower class of society. I like how they made him this more rambunctious, hot-headed guy who's so ambitious to prove himself and make things better, albeit at the expense of getting himself and others like D-16 or Elita 1 into trouble. I liked how they chose to have him mature and grow up in the span of the movie to understand the weight of his moral responsibilities to make things better by exposing Sentinel's lies. This mission gives Orion a deeper understanding of how his reckless actions have consequences that he neglected to think about and how he's been unintentionally selfish, prioritising his ambitions over D-16's, which only added fuel to the ever-growing downfall of their friendship. Honestly, I just loved that they chose to make Orion the extroverted, reckless go-getter and make D-16 the introverted, simple, hard worker who believed in the system, two friends with juxtaposing values and beliefs, but both still cared for each other like brothers. That scene where Orion inspires the miners to fight back against Sentinel was so empowering and honestly my favourite scene of the movie because it really shows what kind of person Orion is I love the detail of Orion kneeling down at the miners' level because, unlike Sentinel, he was one of them and saw all of them as friends and family and inspiring all of them like a good father figure, which is everything Optimus Prime should be, a noble, hopeful, brave leader who's never afraid to be *strong enough to be gentle.*
There's a great balance of Shakespearean tragedy and inspiring hope in Orion's ressurection as Optimus Prime. At the same time, Orion desperately tries to save D-16 from making a terrible mistake that he won't come back from, but is too late and has to pay the price. This only fuels D-16's mental breakdown, becoming Megatron as he lets go of the last shreds of his former self.
Something I really hope they do in a potential sequel is that I hope they explore Optimus's feelings of unworthiness and his inner guilt over how he blames D-16 for driving him to become the tyrant he became. There's a lot of potential to really dive into how emotionally struggling and pressured Optimus is as the leader of Cybertron, guiding the Autobots to gain their independence from the Quintessons or have to come to terms with that Megatron will come for him. I can see them give Optimus this arc of having to face his feelings of imposter syndrome even though he's given everything to make Iacon better and gave Elita 1, Bee, and all the miners of Iacon a chance to have a purpose bigger than they ever could've dreamt. There is a lot of room to explore Optimus and give him a very compelling arc about the expectations of life and making sacrifices and choices that we can't control. Still, we must strive to do what is right, even choices that lead to a further drift from the people who we once knew as friends.
Honestly Chris Hemsworth was surprisingly good as a voice actor.
I mean, is there any reason that a live-action actor can't voice act just as well? Technically speaking it should be easier than live-action acting since you only need to use your voice instead of needing to alter your body language and expressions as required.
@@TheRedMan77 It does help that Peter Cullen helped out as a consultant to Chris Hemsworth on how to get the voice right.
I honestly love Chris hemsworths take, most of the takes are good for me! Peter cullen will always be optimus, but honestly its good were getting more then just him, in the most respectful way cullen has earned a retirement, for inspiring childhoods with his prime voice
What I'm surprised that Orion Pax and Elita-1 didn't have inbuilt weapons to manifest compared with D-16 who have a Fusion Cannon and B-127 wielding knife hands and arm cannons.
Of course Orion Pax got an Energon Axe arm through the Matrix of Leadership as Optimus Prime.
I think bee having knives is to reflect his journey in hopeful sequels. Assuming he'll have similarities to other Bees, he'll be a scout wanting to be a warrior. my guess is that in the next movies bee will struggle in his role but his knives will require him to focus and choose a path where he can excel or something along those lines.
Orion does have mini-blasters in his truck mode, and it does seem like the group's bodies are still developing, with the upgrades showing themselves as needed. Maybe Elita didn't suddenly develop anything because she was a skilled enough fighter to not need them, at least not yet.
Some have suggested this hints at their original 'functions' if their T-Cogs hadn't been stripped out before their protoforms came online. D-16 might have been slated as a military machine as a nod to the G1 continuities origins of the Decepticons, while the Autobots had more mundane vehicle modes meant for work or pleasure.
I forgot for a second that B got weponds, but unlike D. Even when B went ham in the controll room, he still listened to those around him. Wich is impressive since he been pushed around alot.
This movie writing and directing really is amazing.
The way Chris Hemsworth delivered “You betrayed… me.” was genuinely great.
I wonder if Optimus Prime can access the other weapons of the Thirteen through the Matrix of Leadership aside Zeta's Energon Axe such as Prima's Star Saber, Megatronus' Requiem Blaster, and Solus's Forge Hammer for example.
That would make Optimus truly a stronger enemy to Megatron who would find any means of getting stronger and have new weapons to beat him.
0:47 the middle finger orion lmao
It’s sad watching these studios come down hard on these content creators who are just simply trying to praise their movies and push them out to a wider audience. I hope you win.
Honey wake up a new Delta Trion TFone video is releasing
I actually like both origins for optimus as 1. Hes a dude seeing beyond his class to help other and change what it means to be an Autobot. 2. He just a lowly guy trying to show everyone he and the miners can be so much more.
This Might be the Best Optimus Prime Version we have in a Long While, sure Peter Collin’s is Fantastic but Chris did a Fantastic Job with the Role as a Young Orion Pax, he Rebels on Protocol Yes however unlike D-16 who even in the Start of the Film he only believes in Himself and even more so when he finds out the Truth, Pax was breaking the Rules for a Better Future for Cybertron and it’s People embracing their Potential, even though he’s different from his other incarnations he’s extremely Accurate as Pax always searches for Knowledge like how other Orion Pax Versions was a Liberian and shows how Intelligent and Clever he is like how he has Quick Thinking in Escape from Danger or Fighting Against It, who he Enters and solved Solutions in that Race, how he Save Jazz and Bee, and how he took the Idea to Expose Sentinel when Airachnid said “I Can See Everything” giving him the Advantage, hell Chris took Notes from Peter Himself to Understand the Tone and Character Better as Peter said he’s going to voice Prime in Live Action Movies but he’s giving his Blessings to Someone Else in Animated Projects and I’m ok with that, also I never knew Cullins used that Quote “Strong Enough to be Gentle” His Brother gave to Construct how Optimus Prime will later Become 40 Years Ago until a Month after this Movie’s Release and now that Quote is Forever Stuck in Me Forever as a Great Leader will need to be Strong Enough to be Gentle to Their People, that’s both True Leadership and a Righteous Soul that we Don’t Fight to Defeat Our Enemies, We Fight to Protect Our Love Ones, that’s why it Hit Us so Hard when We Fail.
What hit me in the emo-guts was when Orion got shot by D-16, harkening back to the days where G1 Orion got shot by Megatron. The montage thereafter kinda gave me this impression that you shouldn't mess with other people and that your undoing comes from the unlikeliest of places, since just as D-16 turned into Megatron because of Sentinel Prime's a-holery, Orion turned into Optimus because of Megatron's a-holery. Heck, G1 Orion was a simple dock worker who admired Megatron's ability to fly and his innate rizz. He got fooled, it cost him his life, and Primus decided he's had enough of Megatron's a-holery, and gave him his "worst nightmare".
It's a wasted opportunity for Peter Cullen to voice Primus and say *"ARISE OPTIMUS PRIME!"* when ascending Orion Pax with the reformed Matrix of Leadership.
Maybe in the sequel. Where Prime seeks guidance in being the new leader from Primus.
I mean, that was Alpha Trion saying that I'm pretty sure. Unless you mean you wished Primus spoke in that scene, in which case I agree that would have kicked ass.
Personally, I think Orion Pax’s arc to Optimus Prime was just as good as D-16’s arc to Megatron
orion was not selfish i mean he is he's trying to prove something but when him d elita and b found out about what sentinel prime did he's no longer that selfish bot that hope slowly making him into optimus prime
You can be selfless in motive and intention but selfish in mind and action. Orion initially never really took what other bots wanted into consideration. He wished only the best for everyone but was blinded by what he thought everyone needed that he didn't see how the consequences of his actions would affect those around him until, in D-16's case, it was too late.
I think that's what Delta Trion meant when calling Orion selfish.
@@XionTyran It’s less of being selfish and more of being reckless. Plus Orion and everyone else were slaves so it’s normal for a slave like him to want freedom.
Yeah, I feel Orion "act first, think later" kind of guy/robot, who never think how his action affect other people.
Orion drags D along to two things....the Iacon 5000, and then escaping sub-level 50. (And the latter D willingly went along with. It was only the race that he didn't know about ahead of time.)
Orion snuck into the records building (to learn about the Matrix so he could help) alone. He didn't force anyone to help him save Jazz (who was in peril through no fault of Orion's).
I'm sorry, but saying he was selfish goes beyond what we see.
I would like to point out somethings, like the time Elita was fired, Orion was willing to take the fall, or the time that Sentinel came to talk to Orion and D-16, Orion thinking that they were in trouble was willing to take the fall. Even though the writers made Orion selfish, the selfish bot was showing that he cares for the bots he call friends an willing to do anything to protect them, and was willing to stand in front and protect the one he called brother.
I feel Orion more impulsive/ "act first think later" kind of guy. Not really selfish, more like he didn't think how his action affect people around him
Rest in peace and power Captain Larry Cullen ❤
Sometimes I feel like Orion's development goes much more unnoticed than D-16's. When I saw the movie I immediately noticed D's development, but when I thought about the movie I couldn't help but think more about Orion. The character writing in this movie is amazing.
10:50 This was the scene that made me cry in the cinema (this video, for some reason, made me cry too).
It´s incredible how good this movie is. The central plot is a perfect distillation of their many origin comics, flashbacks and novels. Iacon and Cybertron look amazing. The screen is populated by so many transformers it´s insane, and you can recognize dozens of them. It´s fanservice in all the ways it can be.
I'm afraid I have to disagree with Orion being selfish because you can look at him dragging D-16 into doing shenanigans as a way for him to save D from an abusive relationship with the system.
He was never a BAD person but he was oblivious at point
Oreo Pacts
MegaMunch
What pacts have the Oreos made? Is it political? Does it have anything to do with the feud between the M@Ms and Skittles?
@@bradleyadams5252 Oreo Packs need the matrix of Sweetership in order to place order and freedom in all of Candytron, its alot more complicated than the feud you speak of.
I'm sure along with his friend, Snicker 16 wouldn't make the situation worse.
@@machi7074 But KitKat prime is such a jerk, would it really be so bad to break off a few of his pieces?
@@machi7074
This is why I love the internet
This movie made me very emotional. Optimus Prime is a very important character to me. As much as I love the bayverse movies for what they are I will admit over the years Prime's character has slowly started to bother me. I grew up looking up to him, I even applied a lot of his core beliefs to my own life growing up. It's really silly to say that a giant fictional alien robot that turns into a semi-truck has shaped my moral compass growing but it's the truth. Good or bad, right or wrong. Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.
Everytime I hear that story it gives me chills. Honestly it will be so sad when peter and Frank's time comes. Him,Frank, Kevin Conroy and Mark Hamill are truly irreplaceable. They all truly embody their characters.
It's actually quite fitting considering his personality as shown in War Dawn
A 26-minute video on Orion Pax by Delta Trion? HELL YEAH!!
I Personally didn't Mind Chris Hemsworth's Vocal Performance as Orion/Optimus, (He was Decent imo) But You Know what would've made This Version of Optimus Extra Peak? if He was Voiced by *Keith David.* Like Seriously, HOW TF has That Casting Not Happened Yet? Lol
Keith David should voice Megatronus in a flashback.
This is well analyzed and presented. However, I disagree rather strongly with several of your assertions. Orion Pax does start off somewhat rash, which he does need to grow beyond to be a good leader, but I would not go so far as to call him "selfish" and I absolutely do not agree that being "trouble" in an oppressive, unjust society is somehow purely a flaw to be overcome when it's the troublemakers that drive positive systemic change. Just because D-16 claims that Orion only thinks about himself does not make it objectively true. Orion is the one who from the very beginning was seeking a solution that would improve the lot of all the miners, not just himself, where D-16 would've been content to be a cog in the system forever. And I find it somewhat disingenuous that on the one hand you blame society for Megatron's crimes while on the other hand, you blame Orion for not conforming to that very same society just because being heroic brings negative consequences from a corrupt regime.
Also, you place rather undue emphasis on "fixing his mistakes" when it comes to Optimus receiving the Matrix and the ending of the film when I did not get that impression at all. Primus granting Orion the Matrix is him validating Orion's choices and convictions. I'm not sure where you're getting "Primus wants Optimus to right his own wrongs" from that. Optimus is successfully reforming society by bringing back the flow of energon and returning the miners' cogs, thereby eliminating the discriminatory caste system for good, and defending his people from Cybertron's true enemies the Quintessons. He's not thinking about fighting Megatron. You seem to be framing civil war as inevitable, but that's from a meta perspective, not an in-universe one. It's Megatron who is fixated on tearing down Optimus and for what? It's Megatron who chooses to start the war, not Optimus.
This all skirts a little too closely to blaming Orion/Optimus for Megatron's own decisions. Yes, Megatron is partially a product of the system. Yes, Orion did have a hand in shaping him. But that does not at all erase Megatron's culpability or the fact that regardless of whatever "influences," Megatron's choices are his own responsibility, no one else's.
in the g1 show, orion pax was a dock worker, they really should have kept that idea when making the aligned and idw continuity
orion for me embodies the right for citizen who always question and thought deeply about the ruler of his kin
while d16 is a gear in the system just blindly putting trust in things he think is good
honestly if d16 didn't go with pax discovering the truth he would never question his existent in the mines
but when he knows the truth he's a gear that broke off from the cycles and decided to no longer follow anybody but his own self desire and being right which compare to real life world leader who have the same mindset
already said alot about what megs about to do in the future movies(crossing my finger on the trilogy happening)
This is one of the best character analysis videos of Optimus/Orion that I've seen, and a cool retrospective, as well
Also to me Optimus being a troublemaker before he became “Optimus Prime” makes Hot Rod getting the Matrix later make more sense in a way
Very unrelated, but it is so hard to say selfless without saying selfish, and it is so hard to say selfish without saying shellfish.
@@vindicatorschannel7136 Optimus: “I am gonna turn into a shellfish now. Autobots it’s transformin’ time.”
Something I just noticed is that when D-16 fires his fusion cannon and mortally wounds Orion, his arm goes wildly upwards, as if he can't control the recoil of his weapon. It's such a small detail, but it has some vast implications for his character. He's not in control of his own power, he's not able to trust himself, he's not-- he's not as strong as he thinks he is. And that moment of realization is what sets his fall into Megatron in motion.
For all of his life, D-16 has been concerned with the consequences of his actions. He constantly tries to figure out what will happen after something happens (i.e. "If we survive this, I will kill you", "We are going to be demoted", etc.)
But the one thing I don't think he could ever predicting is that he might hurt his only real friend. He pleads and tries to understand how Orion could have done that, but he just... he just can't.
And that, more than anything, breaks him. He's always been pulling Orion out of trouble, always thinking through what happens after "Another Orion Pax Master Plan", and seeing his friend not only throw himself in danger, but throw himself in danger at D-16 for someone as terrible as Sentinel Prime? That has to feel like the ultimate betrayal, but also the ultimate failure on D-16's part. He couldn't protect his friend from themselves. This, more than anything, cements his radicalization. "I'm done saving you" isn't just something he says to Orion, it's something he has to say to himself. He has tried his best to understand consequence, and he just can't anymore. So he gives up. He becomes reckless, because he has nothing to lose-- not his position in society, not his dead idol and the false Prime who killed him, and not his friend.
Speaking of Orion, I appreciate that he is so selfish, so reckless, so impulsive, because that just makes the wisdom and humility of Optimus Prime understandable. Optimus Prime is everything D-16 would have wanted in a Prime, but D-16 is gone. Orion Pax may have looked up to Megatron with his incendiary and impulsive rhetoric, but Orion Pax is dormant. Orion was impulsive because he was tired of the system telling him what he could be and what he could do, but he never internalized the same level of self-hatred as D-16. Both were abused by the system, but one was able to grow past this, and the other was consumed by it.
The two are perfect foils for each other in their character arcs.
I'm glad that you brought up Prince of Egypt. While watching T1, saw more than a few similarities between the two movies.
While I agree that making both Orion Pax and D-16 part of the lower class makes the character transition from best friends to bitter enemies all the more impactful, It doesn't however feel right for a character like Orion to be born in the role of lower class name-wise. What I mean by that is Orion Pax is a proper name for someone, it's gives the idea of a person who if not from the social elite is still born from a higher ranking in society. D-16 in the other hand is more of a throw-away name, the kind of name used for the mass-produced lower class who's only purpose is to do menial labor.
Urge to re-watch TFOne rising...
Great work, as always! I think you're right on the money, having Pax and D-16 start off as part of the same social class really enhances the story once they become Optimus and Megatron, because the divergence comes down to personal choices rather than being lucky enough to be an archivist rather than a miner.
I just noticed, there hasn't been autobot insignia yet.
Amazing job and interesting and orion pax (optimus prime) and d - 16 (megatron)is similar to splinter ( hamato yoshi) and oroku saki(shredder) from tmnt 2012 series both both are best friends or brothers become ach enemies
One critique I will say is that in the continuity of both Henry and Hemsworth's performance by the vocal direction given to them. Credit where credit is due, both actors can give spectacular performances. But in the direction, it tempers delivery to give cohesive entertainment to the audience.
Not gonna lie Chris pulled it off for me and I was not expecting him to be that good at all.
i just wanna say i've really been enjoying your videos!!!!! thank you so much for your work
There's a lot I felt like one might miss in the final fight scene and it only took me watching it a few times to really catch on. D-16, or Megatron, learns from all of his encounters FAST.
With his fight vs Starscream, he gleams the notion of Might over All. Where the core principle of the decepticons and high guard would eventually manifest.
Then, during his first fight with Sentinel, Sentinel uses his armcannon transformation to grapple D-16 and sling him. Megatron would then use his own blaster as a fighting move- Striking Optimus in the face, mirroring Sentinel's fight with him. There's room to argue that this is the power afforded to him by Megatronus' T-Cog, but Optimus displayed the same level of choreographical mastery, swapping between forms to his advantage.
And speaking of the same fight, where he controls a sort of half-and-half form to use his Tank Mode cannon on his back, I'd argue that it's also reminescent of Megatronus' hologram in Alpha Trion's display when he got on the ground to launch his micro-missiles.
Transformers Two!!! Let’s go!
Chris said, "You think I'll blow it, oh boy I'm finna fix that real quick."
I'm realy happy I found your channel cuz your analysis on this simple but effective character was really well done! I loved how you tied Orions growth and D-16's as a kind of tragedy! Keep it up, I would love to see more transformer stuff too!
Alright, since it's in the evening, I ain't missing this one
I think the difference with violence between Megatron and Optimus is that violence and destruction are always Megatron's/D-16's first choice. D didn't HAVE to destroy that tracker bot, but he relished in his first kill which is somewhat (understandably so) appalling to both the audience and Orion. He didn't HAVE to almost choke Starscream out and blow his head off, but he did anyways. Megatron even says that's the last time he'll ever show mercy, which is very telling of his ideologies and his personality "Tear it down! All of it!!!"
Meanwhile, Optimus/Orion only default to violence when the moment calls for it, like stopping Sentinel's forces so they could expose him or fighting Megatron himself to stop him from destroying Iacon. It's all the differences underneath that make the characters so deep and well-written in this movie.
Another hit to my emo-guts is that Orion arguably was the best kind of leader the miners could've asked for. He still had that aura that he's still one of them despite his being a reckless citizen. With him in command, the miners had the confidence that things will be fine beyond Sentinel's rule. After all, if this guy can break protocol alone, they could break protocol together.
Meanwhile, Megatron was the leader the High Guard needed to finally defeat Sentinel Prime. For all his talk about the strength of one bot over another, Starscream too felt cheated by the false Prime, and wanted so badly to at least see him die a brutal and immoral death, but simply saw too much that he just can't really turn that dream real. Megatron was blind to what the High Guard went through, but all he knew was he's pissed by the very person he once revered, and now that he had a T-Cog, he wouldn't stop at anything to get what he wished for - the death of Sentinel. He didn't just steal the High Guard from Starscream, he gave them hope that the High Guard wouldn't instantly get obliterated if they march to Iacon and settle some scores. The moment Megatron tore Sentinel apart was the moment everyone knew that the High Guard was solidly under his command. That hope turned into jubilation, then into perverse pride and the drive to conquer once again. This can easily harken back to his WFC days. WFC Megatron beat Omega Supreme with barely an aid, surely his followers would also step up.
In my opinion the best dinamic between hero and villain is when they're both creations of himself
The PERFECT belated birthday gift! 🥳🎉
Optimus has changed over the years (good video by the way)
This video, and Orion’s arc in this film, resonated with me on a personal level. Thank you for this amazing video.
I remember chris saying that when voicing optimus he got help from peter to find the right voice for him
Peter Cullen never voiced the original Orion Pax. Hemsworth said that he could've sounded more like Cullen, but the director said no, because his character hadn't *earned* the right to sound like Peter Cullen. This is a far cry from the Netflix War For Cybertron Trilogy which is chock full of unearned moments.
Delta trion:”You don’t scare me. You wanna know why?”
Paramount:”Please.”
Delta rune:”Because I don’t have anything left to lose…You, copyrighted it all.”
Chris Hemsworth's performance does mirror the character arc of Orion. In the first act all I heard was Thor, but as the movie went on Chris has "disolved" into the role and by the 3rd act he was 100% Optimus Prime, just as the character himself grew from Orion Pax into Optimus Prime. I would be floored if that was intentional, but it is an interesting parallel.
I would also add that Orion can take blame for breaking protocol/saving Jazz all he wants, Elita got fired because from the perspective of upper management, she cannot control her employee.
So naturally she gets the boot.
The one thing I find slightly 'off' is the constant usage of 'selfish' with Orion Pax; mainly because yes he is, but it isn't a core defining trait with the bot. Yes in his optimism and exuberance, he can be selfish in not seeing the consequences of the downsides of his plans and actions have on others; absolutely agree there. However his very actions were born from a selfless desire, it was always to prove that ANY, and EVERY Cybertronain could be more than their 'station' in life, Cogless or equipped with one. He wanted to find the Matrix to restore the flow of Energon so they didn't need to mine for it anymore, and their needed energy source wasn't a rationed resource anymore. Some of the video's talking points seem to frame Orion as a glory seeker for himself; albeit with good intentions for everyone else; I feel this is erronous, and misunderstood due to the 'over-focus' on the 'selfish' aspect of Orion's persona which comes off as more of a surface thing. This version of Orion reminds me of Hot Rod, brash and immature, but with a good Spark; but even at his most 'selfish in the eyes of others' the intention is always in service to others more than himself.
Now am I dismissing he doesn't have personally selfish moments or goals? No; I just feel the 'surface selfishness' is constantly harped on when there's a deeper level to his motives. Now let me be frank, yes good intention doesn't always result in good outcomes, nor should you still step on others. D-16 did suffer for Orion's hubris, and that is well documented and discussed in the video and is a good example of where Orion's good intentions were ill-thought out, and got someone else hurt alongside him.
Also I wouldn't even throw in Elita's firing to Orion's actions; that was Dark Wing being a prick; despite the mine collapsing which was no fault of anyone; Dark Wing who could have critically surveyed the situation and realized it was a win because nobody died and thus they could have a full mining force get back to it despite the collapse. Instead Dark Wing does what he does best, putting 'miners' down despite he didn't need to. After all this guy instead of taking D-16 and Orion Pax to Sentinel's personal maintenance facility, dropped them into the Lvl 50 garbage chutes because he was pissed off they cost him a spot in the race. He literally disobied his leader's orders to fulfill his own bullying tendencies, so Elita's firing is just another sign of his being a prick than Orion's actions; Elita just blamed Orion because of the protocol break, instead of taking into account WHO dished out the order.
Regarding how his actions resonate with D-16, I'm again torn because the video almost makes it sound like Orion's actions lead to the birth of Megatron directly; perhaps to some degree but very, VERY minor. D-16 is a repressed bot holding in a lot of rage against the system oppressing him, but when the truth is discovered, suddenly he lets out everything, his rage, as well as his own well-kept selfish behavior. Everything is 'I' and 'Me', showcasing how he views everything affecting him, without much thought on how others are affected, the fact he blames Orion for bringing them to the surface, and revealing the TRUTH... D-16 would have rathered rotted to scrap in servitude if it meant his 'peace' wasn't disturbed. Once he gets power through a T-Cog, his selfish behavior escalates. While Orion's words to him before the fusion shot are indeed BADLY worded, D-16's actions are still his own; because as badly worded as it was, Orion was right, if D-16 continued on his vengeful, *selfish* path he would become like Sentinel but just in a different coat of paint. D-16 was too enraptured of his own needs for revenge, he murdered his own brother, and doubled down on taking down EVERYONE in his way, innocent or not. Upon being given the power to choose their fate, D-16 gave into his rage, and worst traits, while Orion began to learn to correct his own bad traits and improve his better ones.
D-16 is honestly the more 'selfish' of the two bots and just hid it better in the first act; but I do agree Orion Pax DOES indeed have selfish qualities that lessen as the movie goes on and he realizes he needs to think more long term than in the short-term, or let his excitment at the 'endgoal' oversee how he might be stepping on others to get to it.
Great video overall despite my nitpick I probably went overboard goin on about. I do agree with the thematics of Orion Pax having a more meaningful 'growth' into the hero we know, which includes giving him more flaws to overcome. In a way they took Hot Rod's rushed journey in Transformers the Movie 1986 and perfected that journey here in Transformers: One.
Wait Chris and Tyree never met during the production? They're dynamic was just as good as the dialogue in Bojack and rhe reason why the dialogue was so good in Bojack was because they made the VAs meet with eachother and talk
That makes me remember that when they were making the TMNT: Mutant Mayhem movie, they had all four of the turtles' VAs in the same room doing their lines together. At least, I'm pretty sure they did that.
I grew up with Optimus, but I've learned that it's those who broke rules and convention that are the most interesting, and can have the best perspective. So, I really like this version of Optimus. If makes his character more interesting.
I wouldn't say that Orion was selfish, so much as Self-Centred.
A selfish character, like Sentinel is knowingly self-serving at the expense of others. Knowingly ruining other people's lives for his own benefit.
A self-centred character like Orion is mostly concerned with his own goals, but is simply oblivious as to how his actions will affect those around him.
However, I think "selfish to selfless" angle does fit in Elita's character arc. When Orion and D-16 save Jazz, Elita seems less concerned with the safety of the workers under her supervision and more concerned with how it affects her career. A complete 180 to the final battle, where she tries to get Megatron to stop shooting.
Looking back, it hits harder now when Hot Rod squared up with Galvatron in the 80s movie. If only TFO Orion became G1 Optimus, Galvatron would've seen Orion in Hot Rod.
Another gerat video, sorry that Megatron's ns is having issues. Paramount hates transformers fans
@@Soulprime13 thankfully the trouble with that video has ended! Just hoping Paramount doesn’t come back for round two
@DeltaTrion glad to hear that!
wow, that was amazing. You did a great job! hope it preforms well!
Honey, wake up Delta Trion uploaded!!!
I do not give the movie makers points for not making Orion and archives. Because in the episode, Wardon from the G1 cartoon series, Orion was not an archives. He was a doc worker who unloaded John and put it into warehouses. That was his job. Not too far off. I guess from the minor top job. However, the absolutely was not an academic in any way. Also, according to that episode, Orion and Megatron never were friends. People forget about the original origin for the transformers. We have a really pretty one that’s been built over the years from the Michael Bay movies and comics and other cartoons. That become sense. But this type of thing is never there. Original storyline. Now Transformers prime did refer to Megatron as a gladiator. Not a minor, however in the original G1 cartoon series that story is told that Cybertron was a manufacturing hub. They made domestic robots and military robots. Domestics became the auto bots and the military robots became the Deceptacon. That your real origin not this. As pretty as this movie is and don’t get me wrong. It was a pretty decent movie for what it was. But it is not the real origin of these characters. It’s just one that works well together. I suppose. For some reason we had to have that cane and Abel type of Relationship between Optimus and Megatron. Except in this one, Kane did not get the chance to kill Abel.
To me, the origin of the Transformers was set out in episode like war and then later season three episodes you see flashbacks and you see their origins. Why we did not stick to that. I don’t know. There’s been a lot of reimagining a lot of changes. I think the original origin story could’ve been absolutely awesome. If done the right way. Instead, we go down a path that we’ve seen before time and time again brother against brother. How many times we seen that in TV shows and movies? If we had gone with the original origin, it would not have been a brother against brother. They weren’t even brothers. At best they might’ve been cousins. We were still probably seeing a trope we’ve seen before. Aggressive military trying to take down the citizen or the weaker. But at least that version isn’t as done to death as this brother against brother thing. They’re all tropes. And it would have been just as good if not better in many ways than what we get.
That was super fun to watch! I really enjoyed this video.
Actually, no.
Orion wasn’t a selfish person who only thought of himself. He’s just free-spirited and reckless.
That’s the reason why TF One also introduced another POV of Elita-1. Both her and D-16 got into trouble thanks to Orion’s reckless actions but unlike D-16, once Elita found out the truth, she understood that what Orion did wasn’t from malicious or “selfish” intent (because if he’s those two, why did he save Jazz in the first place?). It’s just from his blind optimism which is what is needed right now in a bleak world, hence his name of “Optimus Prime”.
Plus, Elita didn’t go on a rampage trying to burn down the whole city like D-16. Elita exists to show that D-16 has a choice to do good but he chose to do evil anyway. Actually, it’s not just Elita. Orion as well. This movie bent over backwards to make Orion a slave just like D-16 to create a direct contrast of choices between these two.
I think this is a peril of a sympathetic villain. It’s so easy for the audience to side with him and demonize the hero like Optimus just because Megatron is more “relatable”. Also, blaming Optimus for the creation of Megatron and putting Cybertron into chaos is so unfair, considering that what he did was just discovering the truth. The ones who actually created Megatron are Sentinel and Megatron himself, and Optimus even asked Megatron to cooperate (after Megatron shot his arm off and dropped him to die. Optimus was way too generous, if you ask me) and Megatron attacked him anyway.
@@nont18411 you can be selfish without malicious intent though. Orion means well by his actions that are selfish (being more than a miner) but his actions have consequences.
@@DeltaTrion Yes, but the point that I disagree with is when you said something like “Cybertron is now in ruined thanks to Orion’s selfish actions”.
Cybertron has been in ruin since the beginning because Sentinel enslaved the entire planet and sold his own people out to the Quintessons. And it went to ruin even further because Megatron decided to create a terrorist group that is the Decepticons to wage war specifically against Optimus.
What Optimus did was just exposing the truth. He’s an equivalent of a journalist who exposed the truth of war crimes committed by the government or a doctor who diagnosed a hidden cancer inside a patient. He’s only responsible for the discovery of the truth but he’s not responsible for Cybertron getting destroyed. And after all, once he took actions, he never lost the focus of the real enemy who enslaved them in the first place like the Quintessons. Meanwhile, Megatron never cares about Quintessons. It’s all about revenge against Optimus. This is what destroys Cybertron, not Orion’s recklessness.
@ I wouldn’t say the whole planet has been in ruin in full under Sentinels reign. In fact, the planet seems to be flourishing in some areas because of his class system, which makes it even that more evil.
Orions actions, along with D’s, do cause the start of what will most likely be the war however that will ravage the planet. If we get that point in the continuity.
@@DeltaTrion And that’s how oppression works. Sentinel deliberately made the planet looks “peaceful and prosperous in some area” despite the truth being the opposite to keep people in line and himself stay in power.
Just compare to the real life, the Nazi Germany might be one of the most evil regimes in world’s history but it also had a lot of scientific and economic development in some form. Still, it needed to be destroyed to free people from their oppression. It’s not the Allies’ fault for destroying them. Same as it’s not Orion’s fault for exposing the truth.
Plus, Optimus didn’t start the war. He asked Megatron to build the future together. Megatron denied it anyway. The blame for the war is certainly more on Megatron’s shoulders than Optimus. The only part that I could blame Optimus was not killing Megatron when he had a chance and let the Decepticons live but that’s because Megatron was his friend and the war is a canon event for this franchise.
It was more d that destroyed cybertron his love of the megatronuis and sentinel was the reason he became megatron after he became megatron he destroyed cybertron via waging war on Orion
Good video but I don’t agree with all of what you are saying. I don’t think Orion was selfish. He was focused on the greater good of the planet. He was a leader that was learning himself and how to lead at the same time. He didn’t do anything out of self interest alone. True he would have benefited but it was always about the whole, never the one. Even entering the race, was about the upper class seeing ALL minors as more than just labor and useless.
It is hard for someone who is not a natural leader to truly understand the actions of a natural, good leader.
One last thing, if he was selfish, he would’ve NEVER sacrificed himself at the end. And the matrix wouldn’t have picked him. He was picked because he had pure motives the entire movie, even if one didn’t see it. It’s not just the actions that dictate a selfish person, but their motives/intent which does. A selfish person can do selfless acts to further his own self. Intent, motives are important especially in this case.
D-16 became who he was because that was who he was on the inside. From the moment he got power, he started changing. It wasn’t because of Orion, it was because that’s who he was at his core. Everyone must be responsible for their own actions. No one can make you do anything. They both chose their paths.
At least the 2005-2018 run of the IDW comics put Orion Pax on a somewhat lower level closer to Megatron. Sure Megs was a miner turned gladiator turned Decepticon leader, but Pax was now a cop turned security guard for the Senate turned bearer of the Matrix/Leader of the Autobots.
Not to mention Pax was very liberal as a cop as well.
*Amazing video man!!!!* 😢👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
I love this good work
I look to your videos for ways to better understand the characters of transformers, so I know how to portray them in my own works
When is Paramount going to realize this kind of videos actually help the movie?
Orion is not selfish per se, just fails to properly take D-16's PoV into consideration and communicate his intent:
He wants to share the benefits of his antics with his brother, and ultimately with others.
The race got both recognized by Sentinel, albeit their ignorance of his malevolence lead to a predicament. All of them got T-cogs and the truth, as a result of his quest to find the Matrix, and ultimately everyone did as well as energon flowing again.
Is this video based off that D-16 "you never think of anything but yourself"?
Also, D-16 is not a produce of the system. He is a product of idolizing authorities, and him bottling up his frustration and anger, plus a very nasty habit of playing the blame game any time something goes wrong.
That is why the contrast between the two works so well.
However, the parallel that everyone seems to miss is Elita and D:
1)Both are borderline obsessed with the rewards promised by an exploitative system, to the unhealthy point of Elita lowkey not caring for others lives and D making excuses for abuse of power.
2) They both have anger issues, but D bottles it up while Elita expresses it more openly.
3) Both are pessimistic, but Elita does not emotionally invest in the system or governance nor idolizes others. And ultimately she invests in Orion by recognizing that his antics have reaped a greater value than the detriment from the risks he takes, which BTW are none his fault.
Nothing that went wrong was due to Orion's pushing everyone towards his extremely stupid but courageous choices, yet every reward from these adventures only were attained because of his breaking protocol.
Paramount must really want their most recognizable brand to fail
Aw dang it Paramount!
The only motive we know about why Orion Pax breaks the rules is that he wants to help others. From the moment we saw D-16 he had clear me and mine mindset a if it is not him or his friend then than is not his problem.
There was this moment after they found out the truth, he mentioned that there was always something off with their current way of life.
Orion Pax/ Optimus Is an idealist
My one problem is that he became a prime in this movie. I don't doubt that he would be a good prime, but I wish they had waited until the next one for him to truly be a prime.
Hell yeah keep doing you.🤟