I imagine Dess was erased and only Kris Noelle Rudy C. and whoever else was close with Dess remember she existed... and C. developed a hatred for Asgore for being unable to find Dess since you can't find someone who doesn't exist C. sounds like the kind of person who would have unrealistic expectations when it comes to those around her considering how strict she is with Noelle(she once literally punished Noelle for being too excited)
also, the Spamton sweepstakes ARG thing(specifically the page that has Noelle talking about a strange discovery in dragon blazers) implies that C. was always cold/distant and strict(since she punished Noelle for being too excited when Noelle was little and Dess was probably still around) also being cold/distant is usually a side effect of a high amount of .EX.P. / .L.O.VE. which has some really fucked up implications since .EX.P. is gained from hurting others(as seen with Loox in UT and the "you grew stroneger" messages in DR killing them is optional)
Oh wow, I'm kicking myself for not having considered that the Mayor wanted to do something immoral and fired Asgore because he wouldn't permit that. It's a theory that's simple, answers questions, and makes for good storytelling. It's now a 50/50 split on if I believe this theory or "Asgore made a tough call that the mayor didn't agree with." Either way, I don't think Asgore did something bad or negligent. After Undertale, it would feel too basic to have him do that again. My guess is that Kris was there to witness what happened to Dess but nobody believes their story. It sounds absurd to everyone, and they just chalk it up to Kris being a weirdo prankster. The mayor wants to interrogate Kris, but Asgore refuses because their clearly traumatized from the experience.
you cant interrogate a child without legal guardians consent. But doesnt toriel has full custody. Meh. Probably we can connect to the fact that toby isnt a law nerd, neither I qm.
I imagine that the shadow crystals we’ve been collecting so far are pieces of Gaster, since they don’t exist in the strict sense of the word. If we collect all of them, we might get a secret boss or ending, or at least free Dess.
i think this is definitely part of it- Gaster is the only thing in these two loosely connected stories so far that are described as being pieces of a whole
that actually makes alot of sense… spamton and jevil are both implied to been called by gaster and theyre also the only ones with shadow crystals. omg lmao
I’m gonna go on a limb and say that Asgores main flaw is his pacifism. Like he didn’t want to kill the 6 children in Undertale, he prolonged it as far as he could so he didn’t have too; and that came at the expense of making everyone in the Underground miserable. Whatever he did in Deltarune, it was probably because he prolonged it in an attempt to hurt as little people as possible, making everyone miserable in return. Maybe it was looking for Dess?
20:05 This realisation blew my mind, the idea that someone could have closed the door because they wanna put people in the dark world is something I haven't heard before. I guess everyone just assumed at the beginning of the game that it just closed on its own for mysterious magic reasons. But what you purpose here is very very interesting.
Something I don’t see discussed often is that Toriel has an uglier side. She’s just as willing to bend morals for a “greater good” as asgore, and she’s more self-righteous about it. She tries to imprison the protagonist in Undertale because of her steadfast belief that that moral compromise is better than the alternative. This, to her, nullifies the wrongness of kidnapping. Asgore at least has no such illusions about the crimes he commits. If asgore really did refuse to take some drastic step to find dess, Toriel would see it as him sacrificing a child. Shades of gray aren’t really in her nature. Very consistent, character-wise.
I think the reason why The disappearance of Dess is *the* mystery I'm obsessed with in Deltarune is because of how surprisingly developed it is. Ralsei is hiding something from us, But we have no idea what it could be. The Knight could be nearly *anyone,* And Gaster is probably involved in one way or another, But that's about all we know of Gaster at all. But Dess... There's a lot to speculate on Dess's disappearance. From what Noelle tells us, To the various context clues, To Noelle's blog posts in The Spamton Sweepstakes event. There's a lot here, And a lot of speculation and theories to make, But we don't quite have all the pieces to start making concrete points to base theories around. We know she disappeared, And like the other story points, There's not much concrete to go off from there, But there's a *ton* of smaller bits here and there to start getting a vague picture of what happened.
Very true. All the other mysteries are so obscure and involve magical or mystical things. The disappearance of Dess is very fleshed out and... very real. There are many missing persons just like her.
I'm glad someone else openly says that Gaster is practically a preview of Deltarune that was sneakily inserted into Undertale. The reactionary urge to make fun of Gaster has no more legs to stand on, he's straight up always been a lead-in to Deltarune. That said, I doubt he's straight up the villain. Knowing Toby, we'll never meet what we understand as 'Gaster' - only *pieces* of him. He has, after all, been scattered across time and space. What these pieces became over time is another question.
I think that Rudolf Holiday and Asgore Dreamurr were friends and were the ones that brought the two families together, but once Asgore and Toriel got divorced, the families drifted apart due to Asgore's absence.
There is one big flaw in your theory, and it happens right at the end where you point out how gaster pulls the rug from under us after appearing to be an ally, but the problem with that is, the one that pulls out the rug from under us most likely isn't gaster, it doesn't speak like gaster, gaster has been shown to have a very specific way of talking, something the voice that hijacks the vessel making does not speak like.
Also, as another comment on this video mentioned, the typer value for Gaster in Deltarune is 666 (the same typer value also used for Entry 17 in Undertale) while the voice that discards the vessel uses typer value 2.
@@rcutler9 I could see that being a possibility: 1. From analyzing the dialogue, some noticed that it is most similar to the way Chara speaks. Kris seems like the Deltarune version of Chara, in some ways. 2. Kris studied the occult in the past. Gaster is connected to the occult. 3. Kris has some history with the bunker, which is also connected to Gaster, possibly, by the sound. But yes, if that was the case it would make the theme of freedom with Kris and their actions towards the player really strange.
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! Sorry for the inconsistent uploading. It's takes way longer than I thought to edit a video and I'm still figuring out how to do that efficiently. P.S. Watch to the end to see the cat reveal!
Video is good but can I suggest changing your profile as you do not own that image perhaps draw a version like they of a different character maybe Patrick or redraw that one differently this is just a suggestion but I’m looking out for you if/when you get popular
im SO glad someone has spoken about this in an organized video, because for the last few weeks i've been wracking my brain looking for any potential clues about Dess' character and anything that could be connected to her being missing, because the community hardly seems to talk about it (at least where i've looked; reddit posts that mention Dess for example seem to have little response or the responses dont make solid points, and at this point it seemed easier to find theories on Dess on posts that werent necessarily implying an attention to Dess). im also happy to see most points and conclusions i myself have reached to have been covered here, though unsurprisingly there are some things that were left unmentioned which i feel could be worth going over, at the very least (one of these, yes, relates to our boy Gaster). i was wondering if there's any platform/social media i could reach out to you at and maybe discuss this in more depth, over a virtual cup of coffee? 'cause i really feel like more light could be shone into this Dess character than the community is letting on, and i hate to leave stones unturned. lovely, well put-together video! earned a sub :)
I'm starting to agree that Gaster never was supposed to be a secret character but more "a teaser" for Deltarune and that we will finally meet him. By the way, yeah Smile.ogg is probably the sounds of the depths and that the entry 17 is a recording of Gaster with his experiment but the most interesting thing is that Smile.ogg is Muffet's laugh but slowed down and strangely Muffet is strangely absent in Deltarune so is that possible that Muffet is literally a resident of the Depths? I mean maybe there's living creatures in the Depths.
I like this theory a lot! Solid points all around, and believable imo. Very interested in the whole story behind the Holidays and Dreemurrs, and if this take ends up being similar to how things actually play out I certainly won't be disappointed. Also, I can't help but draw parallels to Persona 4, with the description of some stealthy criminal running around a cozy small town and pushing people into an alternate dimension haha.
A friendly little reminder, Rudolph Holiday's illness is not terminal. It is never mentioned anywhere that it is. If anything, its implied that he's getting better and is able to visit Noelle for church the next day.
Conversely, nothing proves that it isn't terminal either. Right after Rudy states that he's feeling better to Noelle, he seems winded and tells us that he used up a lot of his energy. Rudy could very easily be trying to act strong for Noelle, so in regard to his own illness, he's an unreliable narrator.
It should be noted at 25:38, most people believe this text to have not been spoken by Gaster because of the change in manner of speaking, font, proper capitalization, and the Japanese translation. The point is still very valid, but this is probably the weakest supporting evidence for the point because of that.
As far as im aware the Typer that is used by the "second voice" is a generic Typer that is used for other characters on at least one occasion instead of their own Typer, so while it COULD easily still be a second person, it also could literally just still be Gaster. Its sadly not conclusive either way.
@@Miropup But... why bother switching typers then? It seems like a pretty unnecessary decision to completely switch the typer used then the scene probably would have had the exact same effect on the reader whether it used the Gaster typer or not. Switching it is just pointlessly misleading.
@@GameJam230 That i dont know. I just think its important to keep in mind that Typer 2 is not unique and theres precedent for characters using it instead of their primary Typer. Better to think with all the information at hand than getting blindsided if it DOES end up being relevant. Im incredibly unsure if we are supposed to take that scene as Gaster pulling the rug from under us or a second person interfering, because a) we simply dont know enough about Gaster to tell if that would be in-character for him or what difference us controlling Kris instead of the Vessel even makes in terms of his goals, and b) it would mean theres a SECOND character with potentially Gaster-ish level of control over our connection to DELTARUNE (because they need to be able o discard the Vessel and make us possess Kris SOMEHOW), and that would be. pretty significant. And i cannot think how that would actually play into the game? But we are also only 2 out of 7 Chapters in and we cant realistically expect to be able to accurately predict every aspect of the plot at this point so thats very much not a conclusive argument against it.
This kind of theory is hard to create because, at the end of the day, what actually happened to Dess is still technically unknown. The way this game talks about her is really bizarre, with some dialogue making it seem as though she met some terrible fate and other dialogue as though she's perfectly fine and just not around at the moment. However, with the "find her" stuff and all the info we got from the Spamton sweepstakes event, it seems like we're supposed to believe she's somehow somewhere she shouldn't be. If it turns out she really is missing/dead, my theory is this: While the kids were out playing and exploring the town, Asgore was tasked with keeping an eye on them to make sure nothing bad happened. However, after being distracted for just a brief moment, Dess suddenly disappeared and Asgore couldn't manage to figure out where she went. The townsfolk understood Asgore meant no harm and so it would be cruel to treat him like some kind of monster over this incident, but he was deemed unqualified to keep his job as police and was instead forced to work a job with a lot less responsibility. Rudy empathizes with him, but people like Toriel and the mayor still don't hold him in very high regard.
I don't think Toriel would be the kind of person to just kick Asgore over money or something like that, much less because of a flower shop, I think it has to be something else. Also because ain't no way Toriel's final straw that broke their marriage was money, and then turns around and falls in love with SANS of all people lmfao
I think your theory on what happened with the mayor and Asgore is really interesting, and honestly makes way more sense then Asgore doing something THAT terrible. Asgore as a character is a good, well-meaning person, and the events of Undertale were an extreme circumstance. Asgore obviously would not do something that morally questionable under the more mundane circumstances in Deltarune, even if he doesn't act perfectly.
@Patrick11nf maybe he's traveling through the depths, and if the goner code person is in the depths, maybe they will enter a dark fountain in the future from the depths?
Future entry point to the depths perhaps? Maybe we go on a mission from there to reach the inside of the Bunker and investigate? Lots of possibilities.
Do you think dess, kris, and noelle went into the bunker to seek shelter from a snowstorm? Like, the same one that is potentially alluded to during noelles later "got stronger" animations? Maybe then dess somehow got sucked into a dark world. That could also be why noelles attack is called "snowgrave", possibly alluding to some potentially deadly or disastrous consequence associated to a snowstorm that noellle experienced. I think it would make sense for kris to be afraid of the bunker if that were the case
You are seriously so underrated, the way you present the facts and your speculations is brilliant. Since Undertale I've search for lore theories through Matpat, and 2 Left Thumbs with Deltarune, but for me, you are at their level, with theories nobody suggested Keep up the great job!
No joke, that would devastate me to my core. I would be in awe, impressed, and enraged in equal measure all at the same time. Kinda wanna see him do it...
I hadn't thought about this in depth before but Gaster resembling Uboa is probably because he is a reference to dreams. He could be in some way referencing the dream Deltarune is based on, even if it's as vague as "Gaster = a bad dream" or "Gaster = lucid dreaming". this does highly suggest Gaster was initially created for Deltarune in some kind of vague connection to Deltarune's ending. the one weird thing about Gaster to me is that there is always an ambiguity over whether Gaster is "actually" his name or mysteryman is "actually" his main form. the way "Gaster" is represented by six empty spaces on the twitter has made me wonder if there's meant to be a fake-out where we learn that although he was ultimately called W. D. Gaster in Undertale he started out as somebody else in Deltarune and only became Gaster after becoming garbled somehow. the weirdest thing? the first other character I can think of with a 6-letter name is Gerson. it seems dumb to suspect that Gaster was originally Gerson. but they are both important in their respective parallel games, "authoring" elaborate things, and both gone? there's something very weird about that. I think if "Gaster" manifests in Deltarune we are going to be surprised to find out who he actually is and where he appears, because it's not going to be what Undertale made us expect. though for all we know maybe he turns into mysteryman at the end of the game's expected timeline, becoming twisted into a sort of "nightmare villain". in some ways, Deltarune feels like it could be an origin story to both Chara and Gaster that at once explains their origin conceptually and logically doesn't explain them at all.
20:20 oh shoot... i bet it was sans. i saw someone else theorize that he was also the school's janitor (as somewhat of a callback to how he sold hot dogs several different places in UT). if gaster is really trying to draw people into the dark worlds, maybe sans is helping him?
a comic i saw not a theorie about what happened to dess is she and kris went into the bunker a dark world opened dess feel in kris got out and the police got called but when they got there there was nothing they couldn't found dess (and the dark world was gone idk how maybe gaster ????) and since asgore failed to find dess she fired him
noo the robbery was succsessful and youve got my subscribee! jokes aside, i love this theory, in like 2022 i was like "wait, what if gaster was talking about dark fountains in entry 17?" and now i saw this and was amazed at how much it made sense youre criminally underrated! like not even 1k subs??? id expect AT LEAST 50k
I agree with everything you said, except I always theorized that the reason Asgore got removed from the force wasn’t because he did anything wrong, it was just because he couldn’t find Dess (perhaps within a certain time frame). I imagined that it was the mayor was desperate and angry at Asgore for not finding her daughter and took out her anger on the Dreemur family, because even if Dess and Mayor had a bad relationship, she probably still loved her daughter. Rudy could see reason and not hold a grudge, so that’s why he never got angry. And I agree that Toriel probably divorced him for “mundane” reasons such as just drifting apart and financial problems
"Maybe it's because Noelle is the best character, fight me on that." I ain't fighting you on that, even if she isn't my absolute favorite (Don't take that wrong that doesn't mean I don't like her just that I personally think there are better characters, but stuff could change when future chapters get dropped.) but I gotta warn you, I have a friend who thinks Noelle is the worst character, and they would definitely be ready to fight you on that.
One of my favorite concepts in games is things existing very clearly outside of the intended game area. An idea which expresses this perfectly is, what if you had a platformer, and you had a room out of bounds with actual content and story details, which there is no (obvious) way to reach? I would love to intentionally design a few rooms into my game which have no intended entrance. Maybe people will find some exploit to reach it. I could intentionally include an exploit, though that might cheapen it a bit. Anyway, deltarune gets pretty close to scratching this itch by having the egg rooms, the goner code, and my favorite is the ice palace thing from the spamton sweepstakes. The idea of an unsolvable area that can be solved is everything I want.
Another piece of proof that Gaster is related to the bunker, if you speed up the music that plays near the bunker by 666% it is the normal speed of Entry 17 music, and for those who don't know 6 is the number motif of Gaster
Gaster as a main villain makes a lot of sense, as he essentially (intentionally or not) screwed the lives of every Dreemurr and Holiday by being like "hey kid, you wanna see FREEDOM?" to a emotionally strained Dess, and not conforming with that, he is possibly the reason for why Kris' has an entity that controls them and of which they can't get rid off because they would most likely die... Next thing we know is that he is the Ice-E cryptid and winked at Noelle to intensify her anxious tendencies and fear lol. It appears he is not only a boogeyman to the fandom, huh? Great video, I disagree on one thing and that is of Gaster himself doing things: I feel it's more likely for him to be using one or more people on Hometown to do his bidding, as he probably is: A) Unable to do so himself, and/or B) Unwilling to do so.
as a hardcore Yume nikki fan, i would like to express how much i appreciate the mentioning of uboa. also i'd like to point out that wa don't even know if uboa is a guy. it would be easier to argue that uboa is female, as he/she only exists when a character who is likely female turns into her.
6:59 We also have to remember that toriel wasn't mad at him for killing kids, she was mad because he refused to commit to the war on humans : instead of absorbing a human soul, leaving, killing 6 more humans, and coming back to break the barrier, Asgore sat back and hoped no more humans would show up, because he didn't like having to kill them. That's what toriel was mad about.
0:16 ure so real for that (im her number 1 fan, i have arguments over why shes the best character and the most interesting one and i know everything about her)
I loved the comparison about Gaster and Flowey, and also about Gaster potentially experimenting on Dark Fountains, it's a really interesting take I haven't heard yet!
This is an excellent theory, and it all really makes sense! The theory of the Dreemur and Holiday families sepparating not because Dess was missing, but because Asgore m¡put an stop to the mayor when she tried to do sketchy things is fresh air at this point in theories and it could easily be that way. Plus, I just realized, the Dreemur and Holiday families are the only families in both games that have a proper surname given, no?
Gaster definitely isn't the Knight. The Knight is associated with religion. The fountains are holy and Spamton mentions communion when talking about them.
gaster is also associated with religion through the numerous 6's connected to him. to see the mystery man you need a 66 fun value, his stats in the game files are all just 6's, the typer value for entry 17 is 666, etc. etc.
@@xstar9567 fair enough, but i'd say there's still room for interpretation, since it could be a false holiness, since satan kind of has a reputation for that sort of thing
I think it is pretty likely, that Asgore took some decisions, that the mayor didn't agree with. Either he dropped the case at some point or something else. Or he had to decide after which lead he goes first and he went for his kids which resulted in Dess going missing.
I can get most of this except when you said “gaster can teleport” and “gaster clearly is tired of using himself as a Guinea pig” we never see gaster teleport. Just disappear. And we never see enough of gaster in deltarune so far to know if he doesn’t experiment on himself. We don’t even know if this is the same gaster or undertales gaster. And it it is the later, then we don’t know if this is gaster from before or after the events talked about in undertale
I would like to mention, that halfbredchaos made some good points about the end of character creation segment isn't Gaster, but someone else interrupting him. Those words are lower case and they sound different from Gasters formal style of talking. He mentioned that among all known characters, Chara seems to be the best guess of who that might be
...I don't think Undyne can be called someone who will bend the rules for 'justice'. And as other people have pointed out, Chara (most likely chara) interrupted Gaster's dialogue. Dess, in my opinion, is most likely dead. The reaction Noelle has to hearing December doesn't strike me as one that a sibling has as a result of someone you know running away or disappearing. Furthermore -- Dess' death almost certainly has something to do with Noelle. Noelle has been seeing into Dark Worlds far longer than Kris has. Ice-E winking at her is an indication that she knows something, especially since this happened in the dark of night. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last time we hear about Dess being around is specifically called out to be during the Ice-E incident. And Noelle clearly has trauma related to casting a spell she doesn't know. In my opinion, these two traumas strike me as related. December and the spell she claims not to know, that she clearly does. "See what happens when I try to cast a spell I don't know." implies she's done this before. Nobody wants to admit it, but the type of trauma Noelle expresses reads as guilt. Freeze responses, shaking and crying, unable to respond to questioning, she's clearly upset about something she's trying to forget, and it clearly relates to her sister and that spell. In my opinion, the reason why Asgore was fired is that he took the fall for December's death. Likely looking for two missing girls who found themselves lost in a dark world, December probably perished when Noelle lost control of her magic, potentially in a fit of extreme panic at an enemy she'd been afraid of her entire life -- or perhaps in response to having the power to do something about Ice-E, who'd tormented her in secret in the dark for years. Kris possibly knows this happened. Kris was possibly there, given our ability to call on the power of Snowgrave at all. Kris likely is disconcerted that we know this information more than anything in relation to Noelle killing everything in your path in Snowgrave, because they've seen this before. They understand the danger inherent in this. It stands to reason that Kris and Noelle, having dealt with the darkness (perhaps in or around the bunker) in the past, were found by Asgore (possibly in the depths of winter). Asgore, hearing Noelle blame herself for the death of her sister... and posibly Kris tell him that she was responsible in some way that didn't really make sense (I doubt, somehow that Asriel was there, but he might have been). In response, Asgore either takes the fall to spare Noelle (something Rudy figured out somehow on his own) or simply refused to waste police resources chasing murderers (Noelle might have mentioned there were bad guys) he knows don't exist. It's also entirely possible that kRIS, Noelle and Dess got in over their heads and Dess died in a dark world, simply never waking up in reality (possibly mirroring Kris' defense of Susie in Ch1, but less successfully). After a protracted hunt (who knows how long they were lost in Darkness), eventually Asgore finds the two alone, or three alone if with Kris (possibly dispelling the darkness with the sunlight (possibly why Kris opened the front door before opening the Dark World in the living room)) Police Chief Asgore Dreemurr is looking at a shocked little girl crying over her sister's unmoving form, possibly with his own traumatized child right beside them who's arguably emotionless about the entire thing (Whenever anyone describes Kris (unless interacting with Asriel) they're usually devoid of emotional description for a reason (without us, do they even have a SOUL? if not, can they even actually care about anyone, even Asriel?)). Asgore sees no one else around. Dess is decidedely dead. He has three options at this point. Either he can believe Kris or Noelle did whatever killed Dess (Unlikely and terrible), he can believe that what happened to Dess was some kind of accident (Likely, but terrible) or he can believe that someone else was there and did this but left (Unlikely but comforting). Naturally, being Asgore, he asks for more information (he's slow and thoughtful, and we know this, despite his bumbling. He's also experienced, since he's chief of police.) and likely recieves a fragmented story about magic and darkness and possibly her magic going out of control from a girl who's known to make up crazy things happening and either silence, disavowment or a tacit assent to Noelle's story from Kris. Asgore pieces this together as 'There was an accident and something Noelle did caused Dess to die'. Comforting them, Asgore resolves to spare Noelle and Kris any potential harm this would do to them, swallows his pride and either takes the fall (or says that there's no leads as to how Dess died). The Mayor, infuriated (or refusing to accept this) fires him. Rudy believes that it was an accident as Asgore said (or that he did his best if he reported it as 'no leads') and doesn't really hold ill will toward Asgore. Toriel, furious at Asgore (this is one of the reasons I think he took the fall), divorces him and despises him as a child killer (or someone complicit in covering up for a child's murderer). This makes the most logical sense. Dess' death happening in the bunker could give the rumors credence that there's something deadly in there (possibly Gaster, possibly a darkner of immense power (Spamton, Jevil, etc). If I had to guess, drawing on some common RPG references, we could be looking at a Lavos like being from Chrono Trigger down there. A darkner of the CORE. Gaster's immense and complex creation brought to life, capable of tearing asunder the fabric of reality itself (possibly already dead from Noelle's magic). I'm fairly convinced that Gaster has created this world for a purpose. I don't believe Gaster himself is malicious to us, but is rather *using* us to an end. In exchange, I think he does want to give us something we want. We'll have to wait and see what that is, though I do have a very distinct feeling that it's going to have something to do with Asriel. Susie, who's new in town, doesn't know the rumors. We know Susie is new in town because Noelle called Susie the new kid in a time definitely post Asriel leaving, which happened recently enough it was the talk of the town still in Ch1. Toby Fox has repeatedly insisted that Deltarune is going to have one ending, though the wording on the store page has changed to; "Only one ending...?" which gives me pause. Determination is still the key. "Your Power" the song, and the main riff of Don't forget, the part that plays during "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark." are, note for note, a section of Determination. You aren't the only entity with a measure of control this time, but you weren't last time either. Flowey changed the game, and Susie is capable of changing this one. So is Ralsei, by redirecting your SOUL to focus on Susie. To say nothing of Kris who is his own causal agent. We, the player, are still Frisk. Just as we were in Undertale, the name that was given us still applies, albeit this asks us for our name too. Maybe we should have learned from giving our name to someone else last time that might not be the best idea. It is important to note that we've already seen *an* ending to Deltarune as well. You can choose to quit. Choosing to quit means the world is covered in darkness. We have the power to make that choice. No matter how much the world wants to tell us we're not in control of it, we are. We can erase timelines, copy them. ...And we can choose to allow the world to end. If we choose not to act, then the world will end, invariably. Gaster has already shown us this. The only thing that can potentially halt the darkness is our intervention. Our Determination. Our ability to change fate. To choose a future course that we desire. To make our dreams come true. It's us, somehow, either keeping Kris in check or bolstering them to save it... or not. If Toby Fox is *really* serious about Deltarune only having one ending, maybe this world is already doomed, and we're just circling the drain until it gets there. It's interesting to think that Asgore is so important despite these stakes. He's still, to many of us, like a dad. It'll be nice to have him there, even if the darkness at the end of time can't be avoided. He's a better person than Toriel believes he is, at any rate. Whatever happened to Dess, Asgore paid for it. Asgore paid for it with more than he deserved to. It cost everyone in town a lot. It cost Kris, Toriel and Asriel their happy family lives, Noelle and Rudy lost friends, the teenage crowd lost one of their own. It's a lot to remember. One final note. Near the cliff face, where you can find the Dev Door in Undertale, there exists a section of cliff with eyes in it, like the Dark World in Deltarune. There's only one monster you can encounter there, and it's Gyftrot. Gyftrot's head resembles the Determination extractor (and by extension, Omega Flowey's), strongly hintng a connection to Gaster. The items you can remove from Gyftrot all seem to reference one of the children from Alphys' class in Deltarune. a striped cane that says "I use this tiny cane to walk" on it a box of non-dog-related raisins. (Catti) a lenticular bookmark of a smug teen winking. (Berdly) a set of barbed wire made of pipe cleaners. a childhood photograph of Snowdrake and his parent. (Snowy) a small, confused dog. (Temmie) a stocking filled with chicken nuggets. a shirt that says'I'm with stupid' and points inward. (Kris) And add in the googly eyes you can decorate with and you have the whole class. Some of these are obvious, some less so, but the fact that the gifts line up with the teens, are said to have been placed there by teens and are placed in the area overlooking Rudy's cabin... That has to mean something. Food for thought.
Couldn't agree more about Gaster. Probably one of the big reasons Toby said you should play undertale before deltarune probably to introduce you to Gaster and to show how powerful he really is. I also think it has to be Undertale Gaster for this very reason. Why introduce and hype such a mysterious character just to basically write him off and make a new version of him? Also I don't think Gaster from DR would be able to do the things UT Gaster can. Sure, gaster from DR is probably smart and could learn to manipulate Dark Fountains, but he wouldn't have the universe bending power of UT Gaster because UT Gaster only gained his power from the machine and lab he built specifically to figure out how to break through the barrier keeping monsters underground. DR Gaster would have no reason to build this lab or do the studies UT Gaster did. Without the barrier there is no need for the lab or machine which would mean DR Gaster would've never fallen in and shattered across universes like UT Gaster did. For DR Gaster to be the one were talking to at the very beginning of the game he'd have to have that ability to manipulate universes that UT Gaster does. The only counter point I could think of is Gaster shattering across universe could have had some effect on all Gasters in all universes so they all kinda share the power and knowledge from UT Gaster.
gaster doesnt pretend to be our ally and backstab us though? i mean, he mightve with spamton and jevil and possibly any other character we havent met yet but thats the thing "might" have, sides considering how much deltarune paralels undertale (however you spell paralel im too lazy to google it lol), i think itd be too weird for gaster to just be another flowey, sides even if you say the hero roles are being filled up, that doesnt mean gasters not going to be one either, and that being said, what if gaster just isnt a villain OR hero?
Even if some might say Noel are boring that doesnt mean she stays boring that only means that maybe over time Noel could be a very interesting key character. I personally think Toby Fox will have Noel come back later and make her be a very interesting character but he is playing it cool with her as to have her be a bit boring as not to spoil the fun.
I can see the mayor holiday trying to overtake the cops for the sake of her daughter angle. Good intentions but breaking the rules a bit. Glad your making new videos. Keep it up.
I get why people are sick of Gaster appearing in every theory but they just gotta accept that he _IS_ important, no matter how you look at it. Loved the video !!!
I dont think dess is dead or at least its not safe to assume, because they explicitly avoid outright stating or implying that she is. Its always "missing" not "dead"
9:20 based on what you said, and based on not finishing the video yet. my new headcanon is that the mayor is responsible for something related to dark fountains, dess was lost in one, asgore tried to dig too deep into their lore, he got fired because of it, the marriage is a red herring, the mayor is covering up dess's disappearance and has become reclusive and shut off from her family and other people because of her guilt and shame. boom. dunno bout it, but it sounds fun.
oh dang another thought just came up 26:35. What if Gaster bargained with the mayor to keep their city running smooth. just like he gave spamton BIG SHOT status for a while. and Jevil FREEDOM. He gave the mayor something similar in exchange for dess.
I really like the runaway idea! I heard someone on Tumblr suggest it in the past, and it's stuck with me so much. One thing I really like about Dess that has made my brain spin so much is the fact that we basically never hear her full name outside of a few special instances. The spelling puzzle in Cyber City(which Noelle has no reaction to despite the fact that she is talking about Dess in that same scene), the spelling bee(which Noelle refuses to spell and breaks down), an allusion to it in Noelle's search history, and putting her name as an extention of the pages in the Spamton Sweepstakes gives a 404 error while putting Dess works just fine. All of that to say that I feel like Dess is a trans woman. Like, I say Noelle is trans just because I like her and she reminds me of myself and my friends(positively), but there is so much textual evidence that seems to be hinting at Dess being trans. The strained relationship with her mother could even play into that if that's the kinda story Toby wants to tell, but even if not Dess could be trans as an additional part of her character. It's so interesting how the fandom has worked hard to fill in the gaps to figure out Dess' character. Taking the smallest pieces to create a character that I already love lmaooo. Can't wait to actually meet her
Stepping back from its use as part of the Dess theory, how does "Knight = Gaster" account for the Knight being a recent arrival while the "strange someone" who made Jevil's thoughts grow "darker yet darker" arrived a long time ago, and is not implied to be the same person by Seam?
Also I noticed that you slipped a "the second voice in the intro is also gaster" under the mat like its a sure thing, even though they speak in very different ways...
While i dont know if i believe Gaster = Knight theory, it could simply be that he interacted with the secret bosses a long while ago, left, and then only recently started opening Fountains. I forget, but does the dialogue say that Seam even ever personally met the "strange someone"? Because if he didnt, he might simply not be able to tell if they are the same person. One thing of note is that we get a weird clearly anomalous egg from a man in a room that only randomly appears (pretty similiar to the mystery man room in Waterfall), and "EGG" in wingdings is the movement of a Knight chess piece. So while i dont necessarily think that Gaster himself is the Knight, there ARE hints that he has SOME connection to it.
The fact Gaster’s existence it just a theory and we may never even see Gaster in the story or even have his name mentioned probably means he won’t appear even as the supposed thing that made dess disappear. I’m sure it’s more plausible here that no one intentionally caused her disappearance or even anyone besides her. For all we know she may have done it herself.
It's not a theory, it's a fact. In Undertale, Gaster followers said he created the core, so he existed in-universe. In Deltarune, the intro voice that speaks with us is 99% Gaster, because of many connections I'm not saying it's the same gaster, but I think he'll play a bigger role in the story
Kris is best character easily and Kris is also the knight and Ralsei is a reflection of Kris's desire to be a monster and I will DIE on this hill. Kris is the chess grandmaster behind the scenes but also still a vulnerable teenager with identity struggles. Also Asgore is the most sympathetic character. He doesn't deserve to suffer like this.
I had your last video in my homepage and then I clicked on your channel after I watched and saw you posted another one just yesterday! I love your analysis and ideas. So cool to find a new Deltarune theory channel at the ground level
I almost completely agree with what you're saying BUT here's the point where our theories split: I believe Noelle's mother is the angel from the prophecy and is doing the time loop shenanigans that jaru accused her or doing. I believe that she wanted to create noelle and dess as clones or demigods but dess didn't want to obey her rules so aher mother, not being able to erase her from existence since dess's technically alos a god, she banished her into the deaths. Another difference between our theories is that asgore wasn't fired because he didn't want dess's disappearance but because he DID, and, either came close to discovering that the mayor is secretly an ancient deity or because he actually full on did.
My Story is, kris, dess and noelle went to the bunker, noelle froze and didnt go in, only kris came out, there isnt a character in the code, its dess in the bunker, we may find her in chapter 6-7. However, REDACTED. I dont know if its dess. but i find it weird that shed be in waterfall instead of snowdin. (If its the undertale world, i think it is.) Asgore tried to find dess in the bunker, and found something he shouldnt have. he came back empty handed. Cause if dess being in a unused room/the stable you cant find it. But the dark world brings more things to life. Maybe the door to dess? But if redacted is dess i fear we may be too late as REDACTED has a fade effect, like napstablook, who is a ghost. We might find something we dont want to, and wish we never ever went there. Maybe the thing that attacked dess, the bunker scrathing is kris or snowy and monster kid. Monster kid and snowy in chapter 2, snowy could try to open the door or kick it down. Or kris, trying to get whatever is left down there. And I don't like talking about gaster, BUT dess couldve done something to be teleported to the unused room where she can view another world, despite still being in the deltarune world.
What if the knight Is alphys who works for Gaster? She's the one who sent them taking chalk. If Gaster wanted to experiment on, It makes sense for Alphys to send some of her students in the place she knows will be turned into a dark fountain by the scientist she works for in undertale
Catty talks about Nicole, Kris, and Asriels involvement in occults. I can’t remember if she mentioned if Dess was involved but since it seems like the 4 of them were best friends she probably was. I think maybe that led to Dess being accidentally “banished” to the depths. Idk if there’s stuff that disproves this theory tho feel free to correct me
I like to think that paper trail (a fan comic) said it best and has the most convincing theory. Gaster in this universe is a human. In this universe, monsters won the war and sealed the humans away in the bunker. Gaster created Kris as a vessel to create dark fountains as an escape route from the bunker
12:54 lost has a lot of different meanings if you look to undertale gaster is lost, we the player and frisk are lost, the amalgamates arguably are lost. within deltarune we have characters who feel out of place such as when we meet the top cake chef in chapter 1 or the man with the egg. But the man with the egg seems to be right where he needs to be based on how he's characterized. as for reasons for dess to be lost the incident so to speak if she were kidnapped people would be frantic concerned and likely put up wanted posters but the way the game and based on how halfbreadchaos talked about the timeline dess has been missing for over 7 years. the characters talk about her as gone but remembered not missing or concerned. they aren't concerned cause it was a long time ago they moved on and accepted the loss for whatever reason dess is missing. I agree about her not being dead I don't think toby is pulling a stand by me here it doesn't make sense find her, find a corpse. this isn't scott cawthon we're talking about either. for death being a very likely motif in undertale and deltarune the games talk about it as cryptically and backhandedly too even when directly addressed the focus isn't on death but instead memories of them. think about it in undertale chara is dead period but we meet them in genocide and the dreemur family talks about them infrequently and when they do they talk about the memory of them what they we're like rather than feeling any kind of way about them dying with the closest thing being asgore's grief over asriel's death, esspecially if asgore lives on a neutral run, yes this can happen if on a previous playthrough you get the speech where flowey tells you about passifist and you make a deal with him to spare asgore. doing this has asgore give a long monologue about the dreemurs before succumbing to his wounds dying and then starting or skipping omega/photoshop flowey.
I imagine Dess was erased and only Kris Noelle Rudy C. and whoever else was close with Dess remember she existed... and C. developed a hatred for Asgore for being unable to find Dess since you can't find someone who doesn't exist C. sounds like the kind of person who would have unrealistic expectations when it comes to those around her considering how strict she is with Noelle(she once literally punished Noelle for being too excited)
also, the Spamton sweepstakes ARG thing(specifically the page that has Noelle talking about a strange discovery in dragon blazers) implies that C. was always cold/distant and strict(since she punished Noelle for being too excited when Noelle was little and Dess was probably still around)
also being cold/distant is usually a side effect of a high amount of .EX.P. / .L.O.VE. which has some really fucked up implications since .EX.P. is gained from hurting others(as seen with Loox in UT and the "you grew stroneger" messages in DR killing them is optional)
@@billcipher3180We don't talk about the third Holiday sibling.
Dess: Hey noelle, as I was saying to you- *disappears from reality*
Noelle: huh?
@@1BeautifulDuck prunsel obviously don’t you remember them showing up in chapter 2?
@@1BeautifulDuckok we don’t talk about the third sibling
Oh wow, I'm kicking myself for not having considered that the Mayor wanted to do something immoral and fired Asgore because he wouldn't permit that. It's a theory that's simple, answers questions, and makes for good storytelling. It's now a 50/50 split on if I believe this theory or "Asgore made a tough call that the mayor didn't agree with." Either way, I don't think Asgore did something bad or negligent. After Undertale, it would feel too basic to have him do that again.
My guess is that Kris was there to witness what happened to Dess but nobody believes their story. It sounds absurd to everyone, and they just chalk it up to Kris being a weirdo prankster. The mayor wants to interrogate Kris, but Asgore refuses because their clearly traumatized from the experience.
you cant interrogate a child without legal guardians consent.
But doesnt toriel has full custody.
Meh. Probably we can connect to the fact that toby isnt a law nerd, neither I qm.
I imagine that the shadow crystals we’ve been collecting so far are pieces of Gaster, since they don’t exist in the strict sense of the word. If we collect all of them, we might get a secret boss or ending, or at least free Dess.
i think this is definitely part of it- Gaster is the only thing in these two loosely connected stories so far that are described as being pieces of a whole
that actually makes alot of sense… spamton and jevil are both implied to been called by gaster and theyre also the only ones with shadow crystals. omg lmao
your pfp haunts me lol
I’m gonna go on a limb and say that Asgores main flaw is his pacifism. Like he didn’t want to kill the 6 children in Undertale, he prolonged it as far as he could so he didn’t have too; and that came at the expense of making everyone in the Underground miserable.
Whatever he did in Deltarune, it was probably because he prolonged it in an attempt to hurt as little people as possible, making everyone miserable in return. Maybe it was looking for Dess?
20:05 This realisation blew my mind, the idea that someone could have closed the door because they wanna put people in the dark world is something I haven't heard before. I guess everyone just assumed at the beginning of the game that it just closed on its own for mysterious magic reasons. But what you purpose here is very very interesting.
Something I don’t see discussed often is that Toriel has an uglier side. She’s just as willing to bend morals for a “greater good” as asgore, and she’s more self-righteous about it. She tries to imprison the protagonist in Undertale because of her steadfast belief that that moral compromise is better than the alternative. This, to her, nullifies the wrongness of kidnapping. Asgore at least has no such illusions about the crimes he commits.
If asgore really did refuse to take some drastic step to find dess, Toriel would see it as him sacrificing a child. Shades of gray aren’t really in her nature. Very consistent, character-wise.
6:41 THIS MADE ME BURT OUT LAUGHING BRO THE CASUAL "in undertale, where he IS a child killer" WAS SO FUNNY 😭😭😭😭😭😭
I think the reason why The disappearance of Dess is *the* mystery I'm obsessed with in Deltarune is because of how surprisingly developed it is.
Ralsei is hiding something from us, But we have no idea what it could be. The Knight could be nearly *anyone,* And Gaster is probably involved in one way or another, But that's about all we know of Gaster at all.
But Dess... There's a lot to speculate on Dess's disappearance. From what Noelle tells us, To the various context clues, To Noelle's blog posts in The Spamton Sweepstakes event. There's a lot here, And a lot of speculation and theories to make, But we don't quite have all the pieces to start making concrete points to base theories around.
We know she disappeared, And like the other story points, There's not much concrete to go off from there, But there's a *ton* of smaller bits here and there to start getting a vague picture of what happened.
Very true. All the other mysteries are so obscure and involve magical or mystical things. The disappearance of Dess is very fleshed out and... very real. There are many missing persons just like her.
I'm glad someone else openly says that Gaster is practically a preview of Deltarune that was sneakily inserted into Undertale. The reactionary urge to make fun of Gaster has no more legs to stand on, he's straight up always been a lead-in to Deltarune.
That said, I doubt he's straight up the villain. Knowing Toby, we'll never meet what we understand as 'Gaster' - only *pieces* of him. He has, after all, been scattered across time and space. What these pieces became over time is another question.
I think that Rudolf Holiday and Asgore Dreamurr were friends and were the ones that brought the two families together, but once Asgore and Toriel got divorced, the families drifted apart due to Asgore's absence.
rudolph? rudy- wait… WAIT I NEVER NOTICED THAT WHAT
@@photonbee1932rudolph the red nose reindeer
There is one big flaw in your theory, and it happens right at the end where you point out how gaster pulls the rug from under us after appearing to be an ally, but the problem with that is, the one that pulls out the rug from under us most likely isn't gaster, it doesn't speak like gaster, gaster has been shown to have a very specific way of talking, something the voice that hijacks the vessel making does not speak like.
Maybe the angel????
Also, as another comment on this video mentioned, the typer value for Gaster in Deltarune is 666 (the same typer value also used for Entry 17 in Undertale) while the voice that discards the vessel uses typer value 2.
I personally think the second narrator is Kris
@@rcutler9 It can't be Kris, why would they desire to redirect us to them when it causes us to puppet them?
@@rcutler9 I could see that being a possibility:
1. From analyzing the dialogue, some noticed that it is most similar to the way Chara speaks. Kris seems like the Deltarune version of Chara, in some ways.
2. Kris studied the occult in the past. Gaster is connected to the occult.
3. Kris has some history with the bunker, which is also connected to Gaster, possibly, by the sound.
But yes, if that was the case it would make the theme of freedom with Kris and their actions towards the player really strange.
I hope you guys enjoyed the video! Sorry for the inconsistent uploading. It's takes way longer than I thought to edit a video and I'm still figuring out how to do that efficiently.
P.S. Watch to the end to see the cat reveal!
It's awesome!!!
Inconsistent uploading doesn't matter if you work hard on the video
yeah dont worry about it its clear theres quality and care in each upload and thats what matters
Video is good but can I suggest changing your profile as you do not own that image perhaps draw a version like they of a different character maybe Patrick or redraw that one differently this is just a suggestion but I’m looking out for you if/when you get popular
@@dragonkidd1644 yeah and you with your gryffindor profile picture have nothing to do with the harry potter franchise you hypocrite
you dont need to justify why you’re giving us context, im happy to listen to all the details you wanna give 😫
What does this mean
im SO glad someone has spoken about this in an organized video, because for the last few weeks i've been wracking my brain looking for any potential clues about Dess' character and anything that could be connected to her being missing, because the community hardly seems to talk about it (at least where i've looked; reddit posts that mention Dess for example seem to have little response or the responses dont make solid points, and at this point it seemed easier to find theories on Dess on posts that werent necessarily implying an attention to Dess). im also happy to see most points and conclusions i myself have reached to have been covered here, though unsurprisingly there are some things that were left unmentioned which i feel could be worth going over, at the very least (one of these, yes, relates to our boy Gaster).
i was wondering if there's any platform/social media i could reach out to you at and maybe discuss this in more depth, over a virtual cup of coffee? 'cause i really feel like more light could be shone into this Dess character than the community is letting on, and i hate to leave stones unturned.
lovely, well put-together video! earned a sub :)
I'm starting to agree that Gaster never was supposed to be a secret character but more "a teaser" for Deltarune and that we will finally meet him.
By the way, yeah Smile.ogg is probably the sounds of the depths and that the entry 17 is a recording of Gaster with his experiment but the most interesting thing is that Smile.ogg is Muffet's laugh but slowed down and strangely Muffet is strangely absent in Deltarune so is that possible that Muffet is literally a resident of the Depths? I mean maybe there's living creatures in the Depths.
I like this theory a lot! Solid points all around, and believable imo. Very interested in the whole story behind the Holidays and Dreemurrs, and if this take ends up being similar to how things actually play out I certainly won't be disappointed. Also, I can't help but draw parallels to Persona 4, with the description of some stealthy criminal running around a cozy small town and pushing people into an alternate dimension haha.
A friendly little reminder, Rudolph Holiday's illness is not terminal. It is never mentioned anywhere that it is. If anything, its implied that he's getting better and is able to visit Noelle for church the next day.
Note!! A lot of people before passing feel a bit better. He seems to be pretty ill, as in undertale he’s dead.
It's common for people who are dying of terminal illness to randomly start feeling completely well right before they die
Conversely, nothing proves that it isn't terminal either. Right after Rudy states that he's feeling better to Noelle, he seems winded and tells us that he used up a lot of his energy. Rudy could very easily be trying to act strong for Noelle, so in regard to his own illness, he's an unreliable narrator.
14:58 whoa whoa whoa you can't just deploy diagrams like that without warning this is a criminal offense
what if i have done that
what happens brix
you gotta tell me before they come for me i hear them
@@penguinpowerful7 run
@@BrixVGM where is it safe i don't know where to go
where won't the lore police come for me
i need to know
wild brix AND penguin sightings. neat.
It should be noted at 25:38, most people believe this text to have not been spoken by Gaster because of the change in manner of speaking, font, proper capitalization, and the Japanese translation. The point is still very valid, but this is probably the weakest supporting evidence for the point because of that.
it's probably gaster's assistant
@@Volian0 But why would Gaster's assistant specifically defy him and cut off his communication with us?
As far as im aware the Typer that is used by the "second voice" is a generic Typer that is used for other characters on at least one occasion instead of their own Typer, so while it COULD easily still be a second person, it also could literally just still be Gaster. Its sadly not conclusive either way.
@@Miropup But... why bother switching typers then? It seems like a pretty unnecessary decision to completely switch the typer used then the scene probably would have had the exact same effect on the reader whether it used the Gaster typer or not. Switching it is just pointlessly misleading.
@@GameJam230 That i dont know. I just think its important to keep in mind that Typer 2 is not unique and theres precedent for characters using it instead of their primary Typer. Better to think with all the information at hand than getting blindsided if it DOES end up being relevant.
Im incredibly unsure if we are supposed to take that scene as Gaster pulling the rug from under us or a second person interfering, because a) we simply dont know enough about Gaster to tell if that would be in-character for him or what difference us controlling Kris instead of the Vessel even makes in terms of his goals, and b) it would mean theres a SECOND character with potentially Gaster-ish level of control over our connection to DELTARUNE (because they need to be able o discard the Vessel and make us possess Kris SOMEHOW), and that would be. pretty significant. And i cannot think how that would actually play into the game? But we are also only 2 out of 7 Chapters in and we cant realistically expect to be able to accurately predict every aspect of the plot at this point so thats very much not a conclusive argument against it.
This kind of theory is hard to create because, at the end of the day, what actually happened to Dess is still technically unknown. The way this game talks about her is really bizarre, with some dialogue making it seem as though she met some terrible fate and other dialogue as though she's perfectly fine and just not around at the moment. However, with the "find her" stuff and all the info we got from the Spamton sweepstakes event, it seems like we're supposed to believe she's somehow somewhere she shouldn't be.
If it turns out she really is missing/dead, my theory is this: While the kids were out playing and exploring the town, Asgore was tasked with keeping an eye on them to make sure nothing bad happened. However, after being distracted for just a brief moment, Dess suddenly disappeared and Asgore couldn't manage to figure out where she went. The townsfolk understood Asgore meant no harm and so it would be cruel to treat him like some kind of monster over this incident, but he was deemed unqualified to keep his job as police and was instead forced to work a job with a lot less responsibility. Rudy empathizes with him, but people like Toriel and the mayor still don't hold him in very high regard.
3:36 from what I know there’s no confirmation the festival is tomorrow, most people place it between chapter 5-7
I don't think Toriel would be the kind of person to just kick Asgore over money or something like that, much less because of a flower shop, I think it has to be something else.
Also because ain't no way Toriel's final straw that broke their marriage was money, and then turns around and falls in love with SANS of all people lmfao
I think your theory on what happened with the mayor and Asgore is really interesting, and honestly makes way more sense then Asgore doing something THAT terrible. Asgore as a character is a good, well-meaning person, and the events of Undertale were an extreme circumstance. Asgore obviously would not do something that morally questionable under the more mundane circumstances in Deltarune, even if he doesn't act perfectly.
What if Gaster *pulled* Dess in? That wouldn’t change the lore, but it might be spookier.
If a pure dark fountain is needed to travel to The Depths, then... doesn't that mean... Ralsei has a direct connection??
Yes, I think that's also part of The Depths theory as to how Ralsei could just appear in the chapter 2 dark world.
@Patrick11nf maybe he's traveling through the depths, and if the goner code person is in the depths, maybe they will enter a dark fountain in the future from the depths?
Future entry point to the depths perhaps? Maybe we go on a mission from there to reach the inside of the Bunker and investigate? Lots of possibilities.
Do you think dess, kris, and noelle went into the bunker to seek shelter from a snowstorm? Like, the same one that is potentially alluded to during noelles later "got stronger" animations? Maybe then dess somehow got sucked into a dark world. That could also be why noelles attack is called "snowgrave", possibly alluding to some potentially deadly or disastrous consequence associated to a snowstorm that noellle experienced. I think it would make sense for kris to be afraid of the bunker if that were the case
I honestly really like this theory! Nice job!
You are seriously so underrated, the way you present the facts and your speculations is brilliant.
Since Undertale I've search for lore theories through Matpat, and 2 Left Thumbs with Deltarune, but for me, you are at their level, with theories nobody suggested
Keep up the great job!
this is a good video on the dess-appearence of noelle's sister (ba-dum-tis)
Birdly: ? You mean Dess-NUTS!!!! LOL XD
(Noelle in the background crying while Kris and Susie comfort her)
Everybody gangster until Toby Fox made it as a deez nuts joke all along
Edit: huzzah I’m the top comment
No joke, that would devastate me to my core. I would be in awe, impressed, and enraged in equal measure all at the same time. Kinda wanna see him do it...
what if dess has gone nuts!
@@Chowder_Tit would be in his nature to do so
I kind of hope he does it would be quite silly.
@@blazingtrs6348 No it wouldn't
I love peoples PFP’s because this entire video I imagined the person reading all this out being gangsta spongebob
I hadn't thought about this in depth before but
Gaster resembling Uboa is probably because he is a reference to dreams. He could be in some way referencing the dream Deltarune is based on, even if it's as vague as "Gaster = a bad dream" or "Gaster = lucid dreaming".
this does highly suggest Gaster was initially created for Deltarune in some kind of vague connection to Deltarune's ending.
the one weird thing about Gaster to me is that there is always an ambiguity over whether Gaster is "actually" his name or mysteryman is "actually" his main form.
the way "Gaster" is represented by six empty spaces on the twitter has made me wonder if there's meant to be a fake-out where we learn that although he was ultimately called W. D. Gaster in Undertale he started out as somebody else in Deltarune and only became Gaster after becoming garbled somehow.
the weirdest thing? the first other character I can think of with a 6-letter name is Gerson. it seems dumb to suspect that Gaster was originally Gerson. but they are both important in their respective parallel games, "authoring" elaborate things, and both gone? there's something very weird about that.
I think if "Gaster" manifests in Deltarune we are going to be surprised to find out who he actually is and where he appears, because it's not going to be what Undertale made us expect. though for all we know maybe he turns into mysteryman at the end of the game's expected timeline, becoming twisted into a sort of "nightmare villain".
in some ways, Deltarune feels like it could be an origin story to both Chara and Gaster that at once explains their origin conceptually and logically doesn't explain them at all.
20:20 oh shoot... i bet it was sans. i saw someone else theorize that he was also the school's janitor (as somewhat of a callback to how he sold hot dogs several different places in UT). if gaster is really trying to draw people into the dark worlds, maybe sans is helping him?
a comic i saw not a theorie about what happened to dess is she and kris went into the bunker a dark world opened dess feel in kris got out and the police got called but when they got there there was nothing they couldn't found dess (and the dark world was gone idk how maybe gaster ????) and since asgore failed to find dess she fired him
YEAH! A HalfBreadChaos Shoutout! He's really moving up in this world
Its nice that someone else talks about dess, i mean theres only like two videos talking about it, but its still nice.
“maybe cause noelle is the best character” this is already off to a strong start
I think why Toby makes an effort to have Kris be adressed by name so often is to draw a clear distinction between Kris as a character and the player
noo the robbery was succsessful and youve got my subscribee!
jokes aside, i love this theory, in like 2022 i was like "wait, what if gaster was talking about dark fountains in entry 17?" and now i saw this and was amazed at how much it made sense
youre criminally underrated! like not even 1k subs??? id expect AT LEAST 50k
Yes! I was craving another Dess theory video. Thank you!
yet another channel to feed my deltarune addiction, please send help i cant stop watching theories please
I'd imagine that the reason Asgore got removed from the force because the "evil" the mayor had him removed for was he couldn't find Dess
i luv ur vids so much
I agree with everything you said, except I always theorized that the reason Asgore got removed from the force wasn’t because he did anything wrong, it was just because he couldn’t find Dess (perhaps within a certain time frame). I imagined that it was the mayor was desperate and angry at Asgore for not finding her daughter and took out her anger on the Dreemur family, because even if Dess and Mayor had a bad relationship, she probably still loved her daughter. Rudy could see reason and not hold a grudge, so that’s why he never got angry. And I agree that Toriel probably divorced him for “mundane” reasons such as just drifting apart and financial problems
"Maybe it's because Noelle is the best character, fight me on that."
I ain't fighting you on that, even if she isn't my absolute favorite (Don't take that wrong that doesn't mean I don't like her just that I personally think there are better characters, but stuff could change when future chapters get dropped.) but I gotta warn you, I have a friend who thinks Noelle is the worst character, and they would definitely be ready to fight you on that.
I died at "William Afton Fan Club".
One of my favorite concepts in games is things existing very clearly outside of the intended game area. An idea which expresses this perfectly is, what if you had a platformer, and you had a room out of bounds with actual content and story details, which there is no (obvious) way to reach? I would love to intentionally design a few rooms into my game which have no intended entrance. Maybe people will find some exploit to reach it. I could intentionally include an exploit, though that might cheapen it a bit. Anyway, deltarune gets pretty close to scratching this itch by having the egg rooms, the goner code, and my favorite is the ice palace thing from the spamton sweepstakes. The idea of an unsolvable area that can be solved is everything I want.
Another piece of proof that Gaster is related to the bunker, if you speed up the music that plays near the bunker by 666% it is the normal speed of Entry 17 music, and for those who don't know 6 is the number motif of Gaster
Gaster as a main villain makes a lot of sense, as he essentially (intentionally or not) screwed the lives of every Dreemurr and Holiday by being like "hey kid, you wanna see FREEDOM?" to a emotionally strained Dess, and not conforming with that, he is possibly the reason for why Kris' has an entity that controls them and of which they can't get rid off because they would most likely die... Next thing we know is that he is the Ice-E cryptid and winked at Noelle to intensify her anxious tendencies and fear lol.
It appears he is not only a boogeyman to the fandom, huh? Great video, I disagree on one thing and that is of Gaster himself doing things: I feel it's more likely for him to be using one or more people on Hometown to do his bidding, as he probably is:
A) Unable to do so himself, and/or
B) Unwilling to do so.
id like to think that dess ran away from home and got stuck in a deeper dark world. darker yet darker indeed.
as a hardcore Yume nikki fan, i would like to express how much i appreciate the mentioning of uboa.
also i'd like to point out that wa don't even know if uboa is a guy. it would be easier to argue that uboa is female, as he/she only exists when a character who is likely female turns into her.
6:59 We also have to remember that toriel wasn't mad at him for killing kids, she was mad because he refused to commit to the war on humans : instead of absorbing a human soul, leaving, killing 6 more humans, and coming back to break the barrier, Asgore sat back and hoped no more humans would show up, because he didn't like having to kill them.
That's what toriel was mad about.
DESS NU-
🤯
ts
Ohhh my god
DONT SAY IT DONT SAY IT
This shit is so good, bro, it's like a meal
0:16 ure so real for that (im her number 1 fan, i have arguments over why shes the best character and the most interesting one and i know everything about her)
if u ever want to make a Noelle video i can send u my 8 pages document about her 😋😋😋
@@kit_kat__v I gotta warn you, I have a friend who absolutely despises Noelle. However I do like Noelle.
I loved the points in this oml, you kind of blew my mind with the idea that Dess was the person in undertale lost in the code, it makes so much sense.
I loved the comparison about Gaster and Flowey, and also about Gaster potentially experimenting on Dark Fountains, it's a really interesting take I haven't heard yet!
IS NO ONE ELSE GONNA TALK ABOUT THE PORTAL 2 REFERENCE AT 19:38 ?
Its literally gameplay. Not exactly a reference.
This video is great and I don't want to detract from that, but I must say:
Your kitty is BEAUTIFUL 💚
This is an excellent theory, and it all really makes sense! The theory of the Dreemur and Holiday families sepparating not because Dess was missing, but because Asgore m¡put an stop to the mayor when she tried to do sketchy things is fresh air at this point in theories and it could easily be that way.
Plus, I just realized, the Dreemur and Holiday families are the only families in both games that have a proper surname given, no?
any person who used person music in their video is a win for me, instant subscription
Gaster definitely isn't the Knight. The Knight is associated with religion. The fountains are holy and Spamton mentions communion when talking about them.
gaster is also associated with religion through the numerous 6's connected to him. to see the mystery man you need a 66 fun value, his stats in the game files are all just 6's, the typer value for entry 17 is 666, etc. etc.
@@theReincarnate that is the number which definitely isn't holy. The exact opposite actually.
@@xstar9567 yes but there's still a connection there, both of religious nature.
@@theReincarnate also that doesn't change what I said. The Knight is holy and their fountains are also holy.
@@xstar9567 fair enough, but i'd say there's still room for interpretation, since it could be a false holiness, since satan kind of has a reputation for that sort of thing
11:37 i can definitely see us having to make a heavy moral decision based on if we can rescue des or not
the mafia spongebob profile picture combined with the theories earned you 1 more subscriber :)
I think it is pretty likely, that Asgore took some decisions, that the mayor didn't agree with. Either he dropped the case at some point or something else. Or he had to decide after which lead he goes first and he went for his kids which resulted in Dess going missing.
I am shocked that there are people who still think Gaster isn't important
I can get most of this except when you said “gaster can teleport” and “gaster clearly is tired of using himself as a Guinea pig” we never see gaster teleport. Just disappear. And we never see enough of gaster in deltarune so far to know if he doesn’t experiment on himself. We don’t even know if this is the same gaster or undertales gaster. And it it is the later, then we don’t know if this is gaster from before or after the events talked about in undertale
23:34 And then there’s me who got Gaster on my 3rd attempt. I should buy a lottery ticket
I would like to mention, that halfbredchaos made some good points about the end of character creation segment isn't Gaster, but someone else interrupting him. Those words are lower case and they sound different from Gasters formal style of talking. He mentioned that among all known characters, Chara seems to be the best guess of who that might be
...I don't think Undyne can be called someone who will bend the rules for 'justice'. And as other people have pointed out, Chara (most likely chara) interrupted Gaster's dialogue.
Dess, in my opinion, is most likely dead. The reaction Noelle has to hearing December doesn't strike me as one that a sibling has as a result of someone you know running away or disappearing. Furthermore -- Dess' death almost certainly has something to do with Noelle. Noelle has been seeing into Dark Worlds far longer than Kris has. Ice-E winking at her is an indication that she knows something, especially since this happened in the dark of night. I don't think it's a coincidence that the last time we hear about Dess being around is specifically called out to be during the Ice-E incident. And Noelle clearly has trauma related to casting a spell she doesn't know. In my opinion, these two traumas strike me as related. December and the spell she claims not to know, that she clearly does. "See what happens when I try to cast a spell I don't know." implies she's done this before. Nobody wants to admit it, but the type of trauma Noelle expresses reads as guilt. Freeze responses, shaking and crying, unable to respond to questioning, she's clearly upset about something she's trying to forget, and it clearly relates to her sister and that spell.
In my opinion, the reason why Asgore was fired is that he took the fall for December's death. Likely looking for two missing girls who found themselves lost in a dark world, December probably perished when Noelle lost control of her magic, potentially in a fit of extreme panic at an enemy she'd been afraid of her entire life -- or perhaps in response to having the power to do something about Ice-E, who'd tormented her in secret in the dark for years. Kris possibly knows this happened. Kris was possibly there, given our ability to call on the power of Snowgrave at all. Kris likely is disconcerted that we know this information more than anything in relation to Noelle killing everything in your path in Snowgrave, because they've seen this before. They understand the danger inherent in this. It stands to reason that Kris and Noelle, having dealt with the darkness (perhaps in or around the bunker) in the past, were found by Asgore (possibly in the depths of winter). Asgore, hearing Noelle blame herself for the death of her sister... and posibly Kris tell him that she was responsible in some way that didn't really make sense (I doubt, somehow that Asriel was there, but he might have been). In response, Asgore either takes the fall to spare Noelle (something Rudy figured out somehow on his own) or simply refused to waste police resources chasing murderers (Noelle might have mentioned there were bad guys) he knows don't exist. It's also entirely possible that kRIS, Noelle and Dess got in over their heads and Dess died in a dark world, simply never waking up in reality (possibly mirroring Kris' defense of Susie in Ch1, but less successfully).
After a protracted hunt (who knows how long they were lost in Darkness), eventually Asgore finds the two alone, or three alone if with Kris (possibly dispelling the darkness with the sunlight (possibly why Kris opened the front door before opening the Dark World in the living room)) Police Chief Asgore Dreemurr is looking at a shocked little girl crying over her sister's unmoving form, possibly with his own traumatized child right beside them who's arguably emotionless about the entire thing (Whenever anyone describes Kris (unless interacting with Asriel) they're usually devoid of emotional description for a reason (without us, do they even have a SOUL? if not, can they even actually care about anyone, even Asriel?)). Asgore sees no one else around. Dess is decidedely dead. He has three options at this point. Either he can believe Kris or Noelle did whatever killed Dess (Unlikely and terrible), he can believe that what happened to Dess was some kind of accident (Likely, but terrible) or he can believe that someone else was there and did this but left (Unlikely but comforting). Naturally, being Asgore, he asks for more information (he's slow and thoughtful, and we know this, despite his bumbling. He's also experienced, since he's chief of police.) and likely recieves a fragmented story about magic and darkness and possibly her magic going out of control from a girl who's known to make up crazy things happening and either silence, disavowment or a tacit assent to Noelle's story from Kris. Asgore pieces this together as 'There was an accident and something Noelle did caused Dess to die'. Comforting them, Asgore resolves to spare Noelle and Kris any potential harm this would do to them, swallows his pride and either takes the fall (or says that there's no leads as to how Dess died). The Mayor, infuriated (or refusing to accept this) fires him. Rudy believes that it was an accident as Asgore said (or that he did his best if he reported it as 'no leads') and doesn't really hold ill will toward Asgore. Toriel, furious at Asgore (this is one of the reasons I think he took the fall), divorces him and despises him as a child killer (or someone complicit in covering up for a child's murderer).
This makes the most logical sense. Dess' death happening in the bunker could give the rumors credence that there's something deadly in there (possibly Gaster, possibly a darkner of immense power (Spamton, Jevil, etc). If I had to guess, drawing on some common RPG references, we could be looking at a Lavos like being from Chrono Trigger down there. A darkner of the CORE. Gaster's immense and complex creation brought to life, capable of tearing asunder the fabric of reality itself (possibly already dead from Noelle's magic). I'm fairly convinced that Gaster has created this world for a purpose. I don't believe Gaster himself is malicious to us, but is rather *using* us to an end. In exchange, I think he does want to give us something we want. We'll have to wait and see what that is, though I do have a very distinct feeling that it's going to have something to do with Asriel.
Susie, who's new in town, doesn't know the rumors. We know Susie is new in town because Noelle called Susie the new kid in a time definitely post Asriel leaving, which happened recently enough it was the talk of the town still in Ch1.
Toby Fox has repeatedly insisted that Deltarune is going to have one ending, though the wording on the store page has changed to; "Only one ending...?" which gives me pause.
Determination is still the key. "Your Power" the song, and the main riff of Don't forget, the part that plays during "Don't forget, I'm with you in the dark." are, note for note, a section of Determination.
You aren't the only entity with a measure of control this time, but you weren't last time either.
Flowey changed the game, and Susie is capable of changing this one. So is Ralsei, by redirecting your SOUL to focus on Susie. To say nothing of Kris who is his own causal agent.
We, the player, are still Frisk. Just as we were in Undertale, the name that was given us still applies, albeit this asks us for our name too.
Maybe we should have learned from giving our name to someone else last time that might not be the best idea.
It is important to note that we've already seen *an* ending to Deltarune as well. You can choose to quit. Choosing to quit means the world is covered in darkness.
We have the power to make that choice. No matter how much the world wants to tell us we're not in control of it, we are. We can erase timelines, copy them.
...And we can choose to allow the world to end.
If we choose not to act, then the world will end, invariably. Gaster has already shown us this. The only thing that can potentially halt the darkness is our intervention. Our Determination.
Our ability to change fate. To choose a future course that we desire. To make our dreams come true.
It's us, somehow, either keeping Kris in check or bolstering them to save it... or not.
If Toby Fox is *really* serious about Deltarune only having one ending, maybe this world is already doomed, and we're just circling the drain until it gets there.
It's interesting to think that Asgore is so important despite these stakes. He's still, to many of us, like a dad. It'll be nice to have him there, even if the darkness at the end of time can't be avoided.
He's a better person than Toriel believes he is, at any rate.
Whatever happened to Dess, Asgore paid for it. Asgore paid for it with more than he deserved to.
It cost everyone in town a lot. It cost Kris, Toriel and Asriel their happy family lives, Noelle and Rudy lost friends, the teenage crowd lost one of their own.
It's a lot to remember.
One final note.
Near the cliff face, where you can find the Dev Door in Undertale, there exists a section of cliff with eyes in it, like the Dark World in Deltarune. There's only one monster you can encounter there, and it's Gyftrot. Gyftrot's head resembles the Determination extractor (and by extension, Omega Flowey's), strongly hintng a connection to Gaster.
The items you can remove from Gyftrot all seem to reference one of the children from Alphys' class in Deltarune.
a striped cane that says "I use this tiny cane to walk" on it
a box of non-dog-related raisins. (Catti)
a lenticular bookmark of a smug teen winking. (Berdly)
a set of barbed wire made of pipe cleaners.
a childhood photograph of Snowdrake and his parent. (Snowy)
a small, confused dog. (Temmie)
a stocking filled with chicken nuggets.
a shirt that says'I'm with stupid' and points inward. (Kris)
And add in the googly eyes you can decorate with and you have the whole class.
Some of these are obvious, some less so, but the fact that the gifts line up with the teens, are said to have been placed there by teens and are placed in the area overlooking Rudy's cabin...
That has to mean something.
Food for thought.
Couldn't agree more about Gaster. Probably one of the big reasons Toby said you should play undertale before deltarune probably to introduce you to Gaster and to show how powerful he really is. I also think it has to be Undertale Gaster for this very reason. Why introduce and hype such a mysterious character just to basically write him off and make a new version of him? Also I don't think Gaster from DR would be able to do the things UT Gaster can. Sure, gaster from DR is probably smart and could learn to manipulate Dark Fountains, but he wouldn't have the universe bending power of UT Gaster because UT Gaster only gained his power from the machine and lab he built specifically to figure out how to break through the barrier keeping monsters underground. DR Gaster would have no reason to build this lab or do the studies UT Gaster did. Without the barrier there is no need for the lab or machine which would mean DR Gaster would've never fallen in and shattered across universes like UT Gaster did. For DR Gaster to be the one were talking to at the very beginning of the game he'd have to have that ability to manipulate universes that UT Gaster does. The only counter point I could think of is Gaster shattering across universe could have had some effect on all Gasters in all universes so they all kinda share the power and knowledge from UT Gaster.
0:18 lets face it its me and spamton. why? BECAUSE WE ARE INSANE
I really admire you, saying "Dess's disappearence" more than one time sounds exhausting DJDJDJDJ
YOU ONLY HAVE 3 VIDEOS? THESE VIDEOS ARE SO WELL PUT TOGETHER! YOU NEED MORE SUBS RIGHT NOW
I honestly think Asgore was building a relationship with Rudy and thats why Toriel divorced him.
And Rudy's wife is too busy to notice.
that's... ummm... ohh it doesn't explain why Asgore left police
@@Volian0 depression
The pacing, editing and the way you talk makes this video so good! Great theory
Love the video! The speculations and analysis are well put together! You’re super underrated! 😄
your editing and comedic timing is great 10/10 video i enjoyed very much
gaster doesnt pretend to be our ally and backstab us though? i mean, he mightve with spamton and jevil and possibly any other character we havent met yet but thats the thing "might" have, sides considering how much deltarune paralels undertale (however you spell paralel im too lazy to google it lol), i think itd be too weird for gaster to just be another flowey, sides even if you say the hero roles are being filled up, that doesnt mean gasters not going to be one either, and that being said, what if gaster just isnt a villain OR hero?
Even if some might say Noel are boring that doesnt mean she stays boring that only means that maybe over time Noel could be a very interesting key character. I personally think Toby Fox will have Noel come back later and make her be a very interesting character but he is playing it cool with her as to have her be a bit boring as not to spoil the fun.
I can see the mayor holiday trying to overtake the cops for the sake of her daughter angle. Good intentions but breaking the rules a bit. Glad your making new videos. Keep it up.
Wow. This is awesome. This is the best researched theory I’ve ever heard.
I get why people are sick of Gaster appearing in every theory but they just gotta accept that he _IS_ important, no matter how you look at it.
Loved the video !!!
I like theories about Gaster as long as they propose something new and interesting, just like this video ^^
Everybody asking where's dess but no one asking how's dess 😢
I dont think dess is dead or at least its not safe to assume, because they explicitly avoid outright stating or implying that she is. Its always "missing" not "dead"
"sounds exactly like my life" caused me to laugh audibly because same
It seems we go further down this rabbit hole of where Dess is then how far down Dess is herself
9:20 based on what you said, and based on not finishing the video yet. my new headcanon is that the mayor is responsible for something related to dark fountains, dess was lost in one, asgore tried to dig too deep into their lore, he got fired because of it, the marriage is a red herring, the mayor is covering up dess's disappearance and has become reclusive and shut off from her family and other people because of her guilt and shame. boom. dunno bout it, but it sounds fun.
damn I was hoping gaster was more meta than dark fountains. I hope he still is. but the depths theory sounds pretty good.
oh dang another thought just came up 26:35.
What if Gaster bargained with the mayor to keep their city running smooth. just like he gave spamton BIG SHOT status for a while. and Jevil FREEDOM. He gave the mayor something similar in exchange for dess.
and toriel divorced asgore because of his obsession with a culprit that doesnt even exist dr w.d. gaster dun dun duuunnnn
I really like the runaway idea! I heard someone on Tumblr suggest it in the past, and it's stuck with me so much.
One thing I really like about Dess that has made my brain spin so much is the fact that we basically never hear her full name outside of a few special instances. The spelling puzzle in Cyber City(which Noelle has no reaction to despite the fact that she is talking about Dess in that same scene), the spelling bee(which Noelle refuses to spell and breaks down), an allusion to it in Noelle's search history, and putting her name as an extention of the pages in the Spamton Sweepstakes gives a 404 error while putting Dess works just fine.
All of that to say that I feel like Dess is a trans woman. Like, I say Noelle is trans just because I like her and she reminds me of myself and my friends(positively), but there is so much textual evidence that seems to be hinting at Dess being trans. The strained relationship with her mother could even play into that if that's the kinda story Toby wants to tell, but even if not Dess could be trans as an additional part of her character.
It's so interesting how the fandom has worked hard to fill in the gaps to figure out Dess' character. Taking the smallest pieces to create a character that I already love lmaooo. Can't wait to actually meet her
Stepping back from its use as part of the Dess theory, how does "Knight = Gaster" account for the Knight being a recent arrival while the "strange someone" who made Jevil's thoughts grow "darker yet darker" arrived a long time ago, and is not implied to be the same person by Seam?
Also I noticed that you slipped a "the second voice in the intro is also gaster" under the mat like its a sure thing, even though they speak in very different ways...
While i dont know if i believe Gaster = Knight theory, it could simply be that he interacted with the secret bosses a long while ago, left, and then only recently started opening Fountains.
I forget, but does the dialogue say that Seam even ever personally met the "strange someone"? Because if he didnt, he might simply not be able to tell if they are the same person.
One thing of note is that we get a weird clearly anomalous egg from a man in a room that only randomly appears (pretty similiar to the mystery man room in Waterfall), and "EGG" in wingdings is the movement of a Knight chess piece. So while i dont necessarily think that Gaster himself is the Knight, there ARE hints that he has SOME connection to it.
The fact Gaster’s existence it just a theory and we may never even see Gaster in the story or even have his name mentioned probably means he won’t appear even as the supposed thing that made dess disappear. I’m sure it’s more plausible here that no one intentionally caused her disappearance or even anyone besides her. For all we know she may have done it herself.
It's not a theory, it's a fact.
In Undertale, Gaster followers said he created the core, so he existed in-universe.
In Deltarune, the intro voice that speaks with us is 99% Gaster, because of many connections
I'm not saying it's the same gaster, but I think he'll play a bigger role in the story
Kris is best character easily and Kris is also the knight and Ralsei is a reflection of Kris's desire to be a monster and I will DIE on this hill. Kris is the chess grandmaster behind the scenes but also still a vulnerable teenager with identity struggles.
Also Asgore is the most sympathetic character. He doesn't deserve to suffer like this.
Chara is the Knight and Ralsei is Asriel undercover
I had your last video in my homepage and then I clicked on your channel after I watched and saw you posted another one just yesterday! I love your analysis and ideas. So cool to find a new Deltarune theory channel at the ground level
I almost completely agree with what you're saying BUT here's the point where our theories split: I believe Noelle's mother is the angel from the prophecy and is doing the time loop shenanigans that jaru accused her or doing. I believe that she wanted to create noelle and dess as clones or demigods but dess didn't want to obey her rules so aher mother, not being able to erase her from existence since dess's technically alos a god, she banished her into the deaths. Another difference between our theories is that asgore wasn't fired because he didn't want dess's disappearance but because he DID, and, either came close to discovering that the mayor is secretly an ancient deity or because he actually full on did.
My Story is, kris, dess and noelle went to the bunker, noelle froze and didnt go in, only kris came out, there isnt a character in the code, its dess in the bunker, we may find her in chapter 6-7. However, REDACTED. I dont know if its dess. but i find it weird that shed be in waterfall instead of snowdin. (If its the undertale world, i think it is.) Asgore tried to find dess in the bunker, and found something he shouldnt have. he came back empty handed. Cause if dess being in a unused room/the stable you cant find it. But the dark world brings more things to life. Maybe the door to dess? But if redacted is dess i fear we may be too late as REDACTED has a fade effect, like napstablook, who is a ghost. We might find something we dont want to, and wish we never ever went there. Maybe the thing that attacked dess, the bunker scrathing is kris or snowy and monster kid. Monster kid and snowy in chapter 2, snowy could try to open the door or kick it down. Or kris, trying to get whatever is left down there. And I don't like talking about gaster, BUT dess couldve done something to be teleported to the unused room where she can view another world, despite still being in the deltarune world.
*dessholyday tried to swim in lava whilst fighting zombie.
What if the knight Is alphys who works for Gaster? She's the one who sent them taking chalk. If Gaster wanted to experiment on, It makes sense for Alphys to send some of her students in the place she knows will be turned into a dark fountain by the scientist she works for in undertale
Catty talks about Nicole, Kris, and Asriels involvement in occults. I can’t remember if she mentioned if Dess was involved but since it seems like the 4 of them were best friends she probably was. I think maybe that led to Dess being accidentally “banished” to the depths. Idk if there’s stuff that disproves this theory tho feel free to correct me
I like to think that paper trail (a fan comic) said it best and has the most convincing theory. Gaster in this universe is a human. In this universe, monsters won the war and sealed the humans away in the bunker. Gaster created Kris as a vessel to create dark fountains as an escape route from the bunker
12:54 lost has a lot of different meanings if you look to undertale gaster is lost, we the player and frisk are lost, the amalgamates arguably are lost. within deltarune we have characters who feel out of place such as when we meet the top cake chef in chapter 1 or the man with the egg. But the man with the egg seems to be right where he needs to be based on how he's characterized.
as for reasons for dess to be lost the incident so to speak if she were kidnapped people would be frantic concerned and likely put up wanted posters but the way the game and based on how halfbreadchaos talked about the timeline dess has been missing for over 7 years. the characters talk about her as gone but remembered not missing or concerned. they aren't concerned cause it was a long time ago they moved on and accepted the loss for whatever reason dess is missing.
I agree about her not being dead I don't think toby is pulling a stand by me here it doesn't make sense find her, find a corpse. this isn't scott cawthon we're talking about either. for death being a very likely motif in undertale and deltarune the games talk about it as cryptically and backhandedly too even when directly addressed the focus isn't on death but instead memories of them. think about it in undertale chara is dead period but we meet them in genocide and the dreemur family talks about them infrequently and when they do they talk about the memory of them what they we're like rather than feeling any kind of way about them dying with the closest thing being asgore's grief over asriel's death, esspecially if asgore lives on a neutral run, yes this can happen if on a previous playthrough you get the speech where flowey tells you about passifist and you make a deal with him to spare asgore. doing this has asgore give a long monologue about the dreemurs before succumbing to his wounds dying and then starting or skipping omega/photoshop flowey.