How fast reflexes can cost you games
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ธ.ค. 2024
- Fighting game players pride themselves on their sharp reflexes, but there can be too much of a good thing. Let's see a few examples of when keeping it real quick.... goes wrong.
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Brain vs. Hands. This feels like a similar battle people face on twitter as well
LOL
Was bohtta type this lol
Lmaoo
@@mickeybat5816 no you werent
What brain?
What an immaculate 13 minute explanation for NOT techning the throw. Work of art
My mind is telling me nooooo, BUT MY BODY MY BODY'S SAYIN TO TE~ECH
I play lot of fighting games, but when it comes to sf, I've mostly been a spectator. After having watched lots of your videos, I've learned a lot, both about fighting games in general and more specific SF stuff. Got inspired and decided to pick up sfv today! Thanks a lot for the videos Brian!
welcome to the club!! get on a discord so that you can have friendly matches.
@@briancapps7593 yah I should probably do so! Any ones you recommend?
brain_f vs hands_f
Super underrated
had the very same issue you showed with Birdie but against Akuma he does air hadoken or normal jump and man i just could not get myself to stop hammering that st.mp when he jumps and i got really salty because it felt like i am getting punished for reacting and anti airing
In tekken there's a common move called a hopkick. It's a punishable mid combo starter, usually with short range. I play mishimas, where baiting and whiff punishing is a big part of their core strategy. I get launched by alisa's hopkick every time it whiffs because it has a second, delayed hit which catches my attempt to ewgf the first hit
Sometimes when I see Zangief doing his Fierce Punch I try to whiff punish too soon and get crush countered like a dummy
couldnt imagine a guess at how many time I have got stuffed and reset, due to trying to AA Akumas forward heavy punch, because it looks like he is going to jump, but his attack happens right at the first moment when i would be able to react to a real jump...
7:47 I like Birdie saying yeah! In the background
“Anti air is lv 1 thinking”
MK11: *show me*
I played a dude with very twitchy/strong reflexes and accidentally did EX DP instead of EX fireball and the cammy supered mad fast on seeing the flash and missed. Was fun
My reflexes have been taken advantage of when it comes to divekick characters.
lmaooo mine too
Shield grabbing in melee is the biggest example I can think of. A noobie hits your shield with a high aerial and misses their L cancel. You react, hit A and get a free grab! It's such an easy execution/high reward option that it creates an insanely powerful habit.
It's not a bad option at all, but once you face players that can shield pressure and space appropriately, forcibly getting the "press big green button as soon as they hit your shield EVERY TIME" out of your system is a nightmare for most ppl. Certainly was for me when I started out as a Marth main lul
if SF doesnt work out for you you could become a model
This is a great video. I’m one who uses st.mp as an anti air and fail, and yell stop that. So I’m working on it
this happens all the time where im like 'theyre gonna do this dont do that' and then my hands do That anyway lmao
I was waiting for this one. It's was a great topic worth the rewatch on the you tubes
Thanks Brian, nice video
Liked, commented and subscribed
ANGRY COMMENT ABOUT SOL
2:48 "Brian F is soooooo handsome!!!" 💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
*me, who is only has 80 hours in total across the FG genre*
"I dunno, bro. Looks like you just whiffed a grab lmao."
Jokes aside, you brought up a lot of things I didn't know about. Thanks for the informative vid!
This happens for me anytime I'm learning new combos
I was a Cammy player that always used back mp to anti-air, then I started playing Sakura and I kept using MP and it surprisingly worked sometimes, then I started getting smoked for using it instead of crouch HP, it took a long time but now I can AA with the correct move
I cannot stop back rising on wake up, even in the corner. I know the right move but it’s totally reflexive.
I think about this all the time. How many games I’ve lost as sagar because it’s so ingrained in the deepest parts of my brain to automatically dp as soon as I see someone in the air. People like cammy, oro, rose, or akuma are nightmares for me
The Birdie example giving me S1 Rog flashbacks.
Same problem, I knew to use Cr. HP against Birdie jumps, but the more tense matches got the more I defaulted back to St. MP and would get blown up for it.
I love that this is a deep thinking philosophy about life in general..... Separation of who you are, and who you think you are. This is a third level though. When you don't know which aspect of "yourself" is in control of something your doing.
I appreciate what listening to your analysis' does to my brain... Lol Brian Brain... Your parents named you appropriately.
Slavery was a big mistake, we should have never brought your ancestors here so that one day you would type this 'ere message
@@pipoper101 lol thanks 🙏
Nice explanation, I needed to hear this. I need to learn how to get put of auto pilot and start reacting strategically
Would be really interested if someone could make a turn based fighting game work. I think it'd have to be quick turns, like 1 second to select your action or you just stand still, or something. But I think that could teach fundamentals pretty good, idk
ggs I was the hands
When I am tired, I start trying to use AA jab because of my old reflexes from season 1. This my cue to know I should stop playing for the day.
Me having an under average reaction time and barely being out of my teenage years:
I think the biggest example I can think of, is when you play against a different person using the same character.
Most characters in fighting games have moves that make them lose their turn, but may have a follow-up that's unsafe (example, any move that loses your turn follow up by an invincible DP).
It's really hard to adapt to a player that after the first move just throws the unsafe move afterwards. You KNOW it's the "incorrect" thing to do because it's unsafe and if you do nothing you win, but it's very hard to adapt if you play a lot against players that follow the safe option of respecting the loss of their turn; specially adapting in tournaments where sets are shorter than on casuals.
I read somewhere recently that Punk went like 5-3 against a random low rank Ken and kept getting wake up throwed. It can be hard to adapt to a completely new plausible even if they're not as good at the game.
@@yurivarloe1526 Yep. The good thing is that if you are good enough and know a little bit about the player, you can 10-0 them easily. But if it's the first time seeing them, prepare to suffer
Interesting, thanks for sharing.
great work as always. you mentioned that when the set starts to get long you made the throw whiff mistake. any ideas/thoughts on set fatigue I.E. making more mistakes as you get tired? I get tired in long sets all the time. I play well for about an hour and then my performance gets noticeably worse either in my decision making or execution.
The body and mind
Shall fight to take control
But with one missing
The other is not complete
The same issues counts for learning to dance. You see the teacher and instantly want to mimicking him. But instead of your body does something else happen. And then you watch your limbs doing strange things, while you are 100pro that your brain delivers the most correct input. 😂
Me: He'd going to Lightning Orb don't try punish the fireball on reaction.
Also me: FUJINN!
I have an issue currently where I reflexsively DP to AA, which in of itself works in my favor 99% of the time. The problem is that I will almost always DP AA no matter what, so that makes it very easy for my opponent to bait out my DP's and then wiff punish for big damage.
I have the oppisite where I anti air with heavy kick with seth which leads to people snuffing my anti air and destroying my health
In tekken 7 Asuka has a frame 2 punch parry that gets me every time because the opponet will do a very negative but not punishable move, and then when I go to jab or whatever to start taking my turn like I’d always do, the Asuka just parry’s me out of it. Gets me every fucking time even though if I just pressed nothing or kick I would get a free hit lol.
Your story about AAing Birdie everytime even though it's a bad choice reminded me of something very similiar in Tekken (The game I play):
Asuka Kazama has a parry that beats everything that isn't a knee, elbow, headbutt or shoulder so every leg/punch attack in the game. It's 3 frame start up on it and she can hold it to make it last longer or do it super short which makes it much harder to properly punish.
You can avoid this by inputting (SFV terms) Forward LP+LK or Forward MP+MK while doing a move (depending on what limb you are using to attack) which "breaks" the parry and you get a small punish and some plus frames.
I can know for a fact that they are gonna be mashing this parry, I am telling myself to just input the parry break but I still dont do it. Its a next level kind of frustrating!
Every single time one of my friends uses Gigas with Hugo in 3S, I throw tech when they get close, and eat it.
Yo a turn based street fighter/guilty gear/FGC app would be dope. Just for option select training
Brian vs Brain vs Hands 😆
Antiairing with Alex's stLP. It legitimately took me a long time to stop doing it (mostly because his other options are so slow).
Me Body Slamming mid jump as R.Mika to hit people programmed to anti air with a button, nothin feels better
2d player learning tekken. The amount of lows i get clipped by because of 2d fuzzy guarding is insane. Scout the low from a mile away, then stand up and die.
Then you'll correct it and get launched while ducking because that was the plan all along. Backdash is your friend and most lows are minus on hit so take your turn. Welcome to Tekken.
Brine always making fighting game content for normal humans.
It's a little different from the specific examples I think you asked for in video, but I hate when something normally reactive offline turns into something more predictive online. Sometimes your offline "good reaction" gets you smacked if you add a few frames online. I think this example comes down to accepting that online and offline can be two separate matchups.
I'm one of those Ryu players... I hate myself so much when my hands just decide to go back to scrub mode 😅. It mostly happens on cross up jumps now but when I'm tired my old silver league brain goes ham on the v-skill. I even caught myself pressing v-skill with other characters instead of anti airing... I just want this to stop.
Very good video. This definitely isnt talked about enough Ive always believed in fighting games that the best players have really good textbook knowledge. Reactions is definitely second or 3rd.
I still find myself crouch teching
I did so many empty jumps on Ryus that I lost count.
I lost a tournament grand finals set, last game last round to a bison player bc I tried to DP him coming down after a blocked stomp only to have him fade back, despite doing jump back medium punch every other time :’( got crush counter combo’d into super and melted
Thanks
It’s for a lot of things not just teaching the throw, SFV players I’ve noticed have put a lot of stock in who has the fastest reflexes and he showed two examples of why it isn’t the end all be all. It can cost you a match or sway the momentum bc you’re not thinking, you’re just playing off of reflexes. You become predictable and the best way to show this was the ryu parry, just like if I you instinctively throw a FB, mk, lk, hp etc etc. You’re gonna get figured out by a smart enough player and get blown up for it. I seen this in SFV with people using “random” in regards to someone who doesn’t pick the obvious option/responds how you expect and when they get hit &/or lose it’s “this dude is random, I’m done playing you bro”. It’s just pushing the blame on your opponent than realizing hey what did I do wrong in this situation. Older fighting games there was great players who played characters “random” and found success bc they didn’t approach the MU or use their character how was expected, especially the longer the FG was out you needed a certain amount of unpredictability to get you the win in certain MU. I’ll always take the player who has controlled randomness/unpredictability and creativity then the player who thinks too linear and is just really good at playing one way, the second type of player usually has issues in adjusting and tends to crumble when they’re one-way system begins to not work
I have this problem where i always try to punish people (within range) for whiffing big buttons but it turns out it has no endlag
Or when i block an attack and i try to punish it cuz it looks like its -30 on block but then i die cuz it was a frame trap, i really hate that in MK11 and street fighter 5, everything looks so unsafe on block but theyre on -2
I'm currently trying to fix my AAs as Kolin as I'm always going for cHP and I'll eat 2/3 divekicks before I can break from it in a set or even just crossups where I've misjudged the range. I've had people tell me that my AAs are great and I can't be jumped in on, but if they only changed their jumps slightly they'd know how wrong that is.
Core-A is good stuff. It's a pity that he doesn't upload that much.
Jump in Heavy into sweep and I don't play any characters in any game that can use that option safely. I don't know how I trained my hands that way but I feel the struggle.
I'm like this with jab anti air, no matter how much I try to train myself to react with dp or cross cut in the match my hands jab and I get blow up.
I really start to notice that I'm on autopilot when I keep making the same mistake, knowing I need to stop doing whatever is contributing to it.
For example, I kept trying to do Bison's one special, where he leaps into the air, and can either hop on the opponent's head, or just attack mid jump. This Guile player kept flash kicking me, so I knew I needed to try something else. However, my lizard brain really wanted to do that jump for some reason.
I think I was also generally frustrated, but it's one of many examples where my reflexes betrayed me in a match lol
YEAH
Anti air vs divekicks always fucks me up. Just see jump and auto reflex is my anti air button
My reflex-in almost *every* situation when I'm negative-is to tech. Yes, I'm stuck in Ultra Silver, why do you ask?
I only realized recently (from a Brian_F video IIRC) that teching should *not* be the default option for a new player. rip my life bar
very common with me of getting shimmy or doing something wrong i know in my brain but i do it ugh brain vs hands lol.
My best friend has been getting me with wake up super for like 20 years now, in every fighting game we would play; and every time I know what happened, and I know why it happened, yet, I'm powerless to stop it XD It's not guaranteed, but I would guess it's like 60% of the time, 100% of the time.
Main thing here, is that I haven't ascended to the next echelon of fighting game proficiency, I'm still just trying to be random as possible and adjust at situations, but I still NEVER think of what the opponent might want to do at a certain moment, so I keep eating supers because I don't put myself on the shoes of my friend.
But, I don't really want to get to that next echelon really, I find trying to get super good at fighting games too stressful and not worth it, I know I could, I just don't have the motivation to do it. I'm happy being as good as possible with regular effort.
i know you made capcup so you probably still have a lot interest in this game, brian_f, but could you make a vid about what you want to see in the sfvi, i mean you have a decent following capcom might listen
Wouldnt the parry lead to a full combo-throw 50-50 setup?
Being reactive in almost all competition against another person is bad. This can be fighting games, rugby, judo, even chess etc. When we're reactive we open ourselves up to being imposed upon by another person and their actions. Being reactive is generally bad where prediction and precision is more important. In rugby if you react to a dummy pass or a fake step and bite on it you're usually going to get outplayed. Doesn't mean you don't have to respond to a situation, it just means you have to know when your reactions are sound and when they ain't. Hard to learn.
im in bronze i have an issue where I practice crush counter combos as balrog but instead of doing the combos I practiced reflexively do dash straight. I've gotten better from stopping myself from just doing dashstraight but its still a struggle
One thing that always fucks me is anti airing at close range in +r, I played sol for the longest time so i have 5k anti air hammered in my muscle memory, which ends up getting me killed when playing other chars because of sols 5k uniquely being an anti air and not a horizontal or low angled move
hello brine
Brian explaining how he lost because he's actually TOO fast
can't ryu cancel a successful parry into a special move for guaranteed damage, or am I misremembering?
I mean it's not like it makes parry-DP any better than just DP except for risky style points, but still
Brian_F, A.K.A Brian_Fight my Hands
Perfect. I do the same
I heavy DP with Ryu when I see people in the air, it trades frequently, deals a shitty small damage, sometimes it whiffs since some chars can change their air trajectory and sometimes it even loses to the air blow
That's my reward for having good reactions
Youre using the wrong dp, do medium dp while crouching and do it late. It will cleanly beat them every single time
@@Brian_F Could you explain to me why other characters have many safe moves(or only punishable by 3 frames tightly) and almoat everything on Ryu is unsafe?
@@Brian_F explain to me why some characters have safe moves moving forward, even when they end up face to face with you. You have to learn "frame data" to know when to puniah or not
i dont think that has to do with reflexes but with your muscle memory .If your brain gets used to your hands reacting to visual queues with the same paterns after a while It gets hard to control consiously . Thats why old habits die hard .
Oh shit, u played Chris T???is there I link to this pleasee
im a dbfz player and i feel like i play better when im NOT thinking, just let my hands and my instincts take the wheel
I have a bad habit of losing
Players in the silver leagues used to never tech they will block like their lives depend on it so you throw them all around the stage they just dont give a damn as long as you dont get a big combo off they are just fine with it i use to to always end games with throws and they would take them lol.
Like Killier Instinct, The Combo Breaker System. And to be specfic, The Auto-Doubles. Once You know what the animations looks like in the match up, Light-Medium-Heavy Auto Double attacks, You Can Break Them, BUT WAIT! If you don't think before you act or so, your opponent can bluff you, and if the opponent knows your just reacting to an action than thinking, welp, congrats you just played yourself, and you just lost about 60-90% of your life from a Counter Breaker. take care Brian_F
Cool video.
Brian upload brian upload.
Been more active lately i see
Pog????
AH
I was watching mdz jimmy and when I saw the enemy Ryu do a parry on a jump in I started laughing because it doesn't really give any advantages.
Its a free anti air
Hi, Twitch chat!
hi LILBRUH4 kekw
pog
The legend says: if you can block a jump in you can DP a jump in.
Same for use parry as AA, in this situation better block ir use CR.HP.
One last thing, If you assume as Ryu player plz, do a damn DP as AA. Otherwise you are Just a scrubby.
First is a comment with system 1
Still doing it
🥊
Fighting games are based on muscle memory.
the only turn based fighting game i can think of is toribash
like and comment 4 algo and also shoutout to end of 1000 years song goes insane
Well, if you don't throw, you have to press buttons eventually. Otherwise, they're just gonna on reaction shimmy until they know you're not gonna tech and throw you. Instead, you can react to them shimmying itself and walk out of range then try to whiff punish, or you can hit them trying to shimmy or walk forward again. And if they try shimmy or jump to press a medium button to catching you pressing the button... Well it's getting too complicated. You'll figure it out. It's like a mini game of reactions
Nice try Brian, I see how you're trying to condition your opponents outside of the game
huuu I was unsubbed