Help! I cannot find an explanation of what the turbulator is for. I installed an Amtrol ST-12 on my water heater and followed the instructions. I pressurized it to match the house supply and inserted the turbulator like you did. I just would like to know what it is for and what would happen if it was left out. Any idea? Thank you.
The Turbulator will divert clean water flowing past the expansion tank connector into the water chamber of the tank. This will help minimize stagnation and aid in the consistent flow of fresh water throughout your system. Nothing bad will happen without the Turbulator installed, however it is highly recommended as it only benefits your tank and system.
To remove the old expansion tank, you first want to turn off the incoming water supply and bleed any water pressure off the line where the expansion tank is located. Then you can simply unthread the old expansion tank and follow the steps in the video to replace with the new. If you have additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact our technical team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@worthingtonindustries.com.
Our Therm-X-Trol manual was updated June 2023 to allow alternative installation orientations if the vertical downward is not doable in the space available.
The upward orientation is advised where the heat is turned off during winter to allow drainage when draining the hot water tank to prevent freezing.@@amtrolinc
So Amtrol is not suggesting that thermal expansion tanks be supported by something other than the pipe itself, as long as they are in the upright position?
Correct. The tank will become quite heavy when it fills with water. The installer needs to account for that extra water weight and ensure the tank is rigidly supported by the piping or other direct mounts.
@@Kcwaterheaters Read his reply. It's okay if the weight is accounted for. It can hold a lot of water, sure. But the pipes rigidity HERE is sufficient.
does the tank need to be exposed to the inflow stream- or can it be off to the side Can you Tee off an inlet pipe that is plumed directly down into the cold water fill line and put the expansion tank on a 2’ horizontal leg with a 90° down, or will air be trapped in that horizontal pipe between the supply line and the tank and cause problems.
It is recommended to have your expansion tank installed with a tee inline to your water flow. This will allow fresh water to divert through the tank (with our Turbulator) and contact our anti-microbial liner. If installed on a dead end pipe, it limits the effectiveness of water exchange in the expansion tank.
@@amtrolinc thanks for your reply . I ordered a T-5 tank couple days ago,so your instructions are greatly appreciated - just need to figure a good way to work it in the flow path. Thanks again!! totally makes sense.
Does the pressure change occur during water usage? That is a large swing for a system with no current draw on it. I would make sure all fixtures are closed and no water is running when taking a pressure reading on your system. We just used Teflon tape for this install, however you can add extra sealant if necessary. Our expansion tanks will fit any standard 3/4" female NPT fitting.
@@amtrolinc Great, Thanks. Yeah it's odd. Nothing else running. For the first few seconds the pressure is much higher then drops down. This is why I thought to change the expansion tank. It's full of water.
The turbulator helps minimize stagnant water in the expansion tank by increasing the flow of fresh water during usage. It is not required for function, but is definitely an added benefit.
You would want to use the pressures that will be seen where the tank is located. Therefore, if the pressure tank is located after the pump, then you would use the pump setpoints to set your tank properly.
If the expansion tank precharge pressure is not matched, the expansion tank will not be working as efficiently as it should. If the pressure is too high, you will not be utilizing the full volume of the tank. If the pressure in the tank is too low, you could over extend the diaphragm causing premature wear.
The main function of the expansion tank is to absorb expansion pressures, which is possible with or without the Turbulator. It will still work, however you will forego the added benefits of diverting fresh water through the tank.
Have 2 40-gal tanks plumbed in parallel. Is it ok to install a single expansion tank rated for at least 80 gal in the supply line prior to where it splits in two? Or do people typically use two expansion tanks?
Thanks for the short (but excellent) video. I have a 2 year old system (expansion tank, lines, water heater, etc.). Recently, the TPV has activated several times. Shouldn't an expansion tank essentially stop the TPV from releasing water? Any major culprits you would target?
In normal operation, the thermal expansion tank should prevent any dramatic pressure increases. If you have a relief valve drip, it could either be the thermal expansion tank (incorrect precharge, failed tank), the TPV itself (clogged seals, bad part), or a pressure reducing valve to the home that might not be functioning. If you would like technical assistance, please reach out to our team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@wthg.com.
I recently ordered a 5 gal expansion tank for my 75-gallon water heater, but i received a 2 gal expansion tank. I went ahead and installed it. Is it OK, or should i replace it with a 5 gal tank?🎉
Great question! The expansion tank needs to be "on the supply line to the water heater between the backflow (check valve, shutoff, etc) and the water heater" i.e. the cold water line. One reason is the expansion tanks are not insulated, so hot water will lose it's heat within the tank, wasting that energy. If the expansion tank is on the cold line, that expanded water will flow through the water heater first ensuring an uninterrupted flow of hot water at the fixtures. The cold water line is also the "fool proof" location for expansion control as it centralizes where the expanded water can go.
@@amtrolinc The California required Dielectric Nipple heat trap is a check valve so the pressure from the tank will not travel to the cold/supply side?
A heat trap is intended to prevent heat from gravitating out of your water heater through the pipes, it should not inhibit any pressure or flow from moving freely. If you look inside one of those dielectric nipples, it is a loose rubber flap.
So your water pressure is 60lbs and you charge the expansion tank to 60lbs. As the water heats it expands and the pressure goes up. The pressure exceeding 60psi pushes the bladder but that higher pressure exists everywhere in the system. Giving the water a place to expand into doesn’t control the pressure because the now increased air pressure in the tank is exerting that increased pressure back upon the water. Correct? If you left the pressure gauge installed, filled the water heater with cold water and let it heat up, the pressure gauge would also go up, wouldn’t it?
Yes, it would. However, the pressure rise with a properly installed expansion tank is going to be far less than without. Since the water has the extra volume to expand into, the additional space minimizes that pressure rise across the remainder of the system.
This system had a backflow on the water meter. However, it is good practice to have a thermal expansion on all systems to manage expansion pressures from the water heater.
As far as the expansion tank's orientation: water intake at bottom vs. water intake at top: which one is going to result in maximum durability of the rubber membrane? Simple logic says: water intake at the bottom & Schrader valve at the top. Has there been any scientific test comparing one vs. the other? Home Depot sells one (globalwater solutions: PressureWave 2.11 Gal. Inline Pressurized Well Tank) that has the product label that is readable when installed with water intake at bottom. Amtrol should consider re-thinking their recommended installation method when connected to a water heater, no? Amtrol also sells the (WX-101 (140PR1), 2 Gal WELL-X-TROL In-Line Well Tank) model, which has the product label readable when the water intake is at bottom.
The recommendation for the vertical-downward orientation mainly derives from the functionality of our indicator cap. The indicator cap is an early detection of a leak in the diaphragm to signal the need for service. As we mentioned, you can install the thermal expansion tank in any orientation as long as it is supported properly. We would expect equivalent lifespan in both vertical orientations you mentioned.
Bad idea. I'm not a plumber but the tank has weight that puts stress on the pipe connection. such that over time there surely will be leaking from the connection because it isn't supported responsibly..
Know your code it varies widely. Most code allows the unit to hang on copper no supports. Plenty of support so long as your copper is hung to code, which also veries...😅
@@its4michael so we can all learn the code as well as you, please site the plumbing code that allows a thermal expansion tank to be supported solely by the piping. Thank you
Like he said in the beginning. He's not a plumber. He should've kept saying that to himself over and over and over again. However, he felt the need to write something to show why he is not a plumber. Not that intelligent.
What if you are not on city/town water but are on your own well with a pressure range of of 45 to 65 pounds? At what value do you set the expansion tank pressure?
Great question! We would recommend you set your expansion tank to the high limit of the pressure switch on your well system. Reason being, when you system is fully pressurized after a fill cycle, that is when you are most susceptible to hot water expansion rising to dangerous levels and you want the expansion tank to be optimized to run most efficiently at that point.
Many state and local municipalities have introduced backflow preventers and plumbing codes that require an expansion tank to be used to protect the closed systems from unsafe pressures. In addition, if a backflow is present, most water heater manufacturers will require an expansion tank for warranty purposes.
without one it can and will shorten the life of the water heater and other potable water sourced appliances (dishwasher/washer/icemaker/ fittings ,piping, valves) it is there to minimize over pressurization of system......plus it is code ....and like Mr Amtrol says it will void warranties
It's because with the backflow preventers installed ... in rare cases ( I have seen this personally) the water heater can cause expansion and blow fittings apart if the pop off valve on the water heater fails
Thank you. Much longer videos didn't properly cover the basic instructions that you conveyed in two minutes.
Glad it was helpful!
Help!
I cannot find an explanation of what the turbulator is for. I installed an Amtrol ST-12 on my water heater and followed the instructions. I pressurized it to match the house supply and inserted the turbulator like you did. I just would like to know what it is for and what would happen if it was left out. Any idea? Thank you.
The Turbulator will divert clean water flowing past the expansion tank connector into the water chamber of the tank. This will help minimize stagnation and aid in the consistent flow of fresh water throughout your system. Nothing bad will happen without the Turbulator installed, however it is highly recommended as it only benefits your tank and system.
How do we change one of them on a pre existing water heater?
To remove the old expansion tank, you first want to turn off the incoming water supply and bleed any water pressure off the line where the expansion tank is located. Then you can simply unthread the old expansion tank and follow the steps in the video to replace with the new. If you have additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact our technical team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@worthingtonindustries.com.
How and where do I bleed any remaining water pressure off the line where the expansion tank is located????
@@mkdsk101 Isolate your boiler and drain the water out of it from the bottom...should be a drain valve near the floor
2:03 The current manual does not allow for any other orientation other than downward.
Our Therm-X-Trol manual was updated June 2023 to allow alternative installation orientations if the vertical downward is not doable in the space available.
geez, the changes are tough to keep up with@@amtrolinc
The upward orientation is advised where the heat is turned off during winter to allow drainage when draining the hot water tank to prevent freezing.@@amtrolinc
Cranston RI is a great city to live in, great video showing how to install a ThermXtrol!
Thanks for watching!
So Amtrol is not suggesting that thermal expansion tanks be supported by something other than the pipe itself, as long as they are in the upright position?
Correct. The tank will become quite heavy when it fills with water. The installer needs to account for that extra water weight and ensure the tank is rigidly supported by the piping or other direct mounts.
@@amtrolinccan you read my question again? I’m suggesting you should have a support even on the vertical position.
I bought a wall mounted clamp for the one I installed.
@@Kcwaterheaters
Read his reply.
It's okay if the weight is accounted for.
It can hold a lot of water, sure.
But the pipes rigidity HERE is sufficient.
does the tank need to be exposed to the inflow stream- or can it be off to the side
Can you Tee off an inlet pipe that is plumed directly down into the cold water fill line and put the expansion tank on a 2’ horizontal leg with a 90° down, or will air be trapped in that horizontal pipe between the supply line and the tank and cause problems.
It is recommended to have your expansion tank installed with a tee inline to your water flow. This will allow fresh water to divert through the tank (with our Turbulator) and contact our anti-microbial liner. If installed on a dead end pipe, it limits the effectiveness of water exchange in the expansion tank.
@@amtrolinc thanks for your reply . I ordered a T-5 tank couple days ago,so your instructions are greatly appreciated - just need to figure a good way to work it in the flow path. Thanks again!! totally makes sense.
My pressure goes to 75 then to 55 after 10s. Which do I use? Also did you use teflon and pipe dope? Can this connect to a FNPT adapter?
Does the pressure change occur during water usage? That is a large swing for a system with no current draw on it. I would make sure all fixtures are closed and no water is running when taking a pressure reading on your system. We just used Teflon tape for this install, however you can add extra sealant if necessary. Our expansion tanks will fit any standard 3/4" female NPT fitting.
@@amtrolinc Great, Thanks. Yeah it's odd. Nothing else running. For the first few seconds the pressure is much higher then drops down. This is why I thought to change the expansion tank. It's full of water.
How important is the turbolater ....I threw mine out ...didn't know what it did....
The turbulator helps minimize stagnant water in the expansion tank by increasing the flow of fresh water during usage. It is not required for function, but is definitely an added benefit.
What if i have a booster pump? Do i take the reading at the tank? Do i set the tank at house pressure or pump pressure?
You would want to use the pressures that will be seen where the tank is located. Therefore, if the pressure tank is located after the pump, then you would use the pump setpoints to set your tank properly.
Is it okay if it is installed horizontally?
Our thermal expansion tanks can be installed horizontally as long as they are supported properly to account for their weight if full of water.
what happens if you set the expansion tank too low or too high from the house pressure?
If the expansion tank precharge pressure is not matched, the expansion tank will not be working as efficiently as it should. If the pressure is too high, you will not be utilizing the full volume of the tank. If the pressure in the tank is too low, you could over extend the diaphragm causing premature wear.
does all of water expansion tank come with a turbulator ? or just Amtrol bransd ST5 model ???
The Turbulator is exclusive to our Therm-X-Trol "ST" series expansion tanks.
does require to use turbulator ? because when I Install new water tank. I didn't use turbulator. thx
The main function of the expansion tank is to absorb expansion pressures, which is possible with or without the Turbulator. It will still work, however you will forego the added benefits of diverting fresh water through the tank.
Have 2 40-gal tanks plumbed in parallel. Is it ok to install a single expansion tank rated for at least 80 gal in the supply line prior to where it splits in two? Or do people typically use two expansion tanks?
Yes, that is OK. You can use a single expansion tank that is properly sized for the total hot water volume in the system prior to the water heaters.
Thanks for the short (but excellent) video.
I have a 2 year old system (expansion tank, lines, water heater, etc.). Recently, the TPV has activated several times. Shouldn't an expansion tank essentially stop the TPV from releasing water? Any major culprits you would target?
In normal operation, the thermal expansion tank should prevent any dramatic pressure increases. If you have a relief valve drip, it could either be the thermal expansion tank (incorrect precharge, failed tank), the TPV itself (clogged seals, bad part), or a pressure reducing valve to the home that might not be functioning. If you would like technical assistance, please reach out to our team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@wthg.com.
I recently ordered a 5 gal expansion tank for my 75-gallon water heater, but i received a 2 gal expansion tank. I went ahead and installed it. Is it OK, or should i replace it with a 5 gal tank?🎉
For a 75 gallon water heater, our larger 4.4 gallon expansion tank would be recommended.
I need this in my tank
Why on the cold water side?
Great question! The expansion tank needs to be "on the supply line to the water heater between the backflow (check valve, shutoff, etc) and the water heater" i.e. the cold water line. One reason is the expansion tanks are not insulated, so hot water will lose it's heat within the tank, wasting that energy. If the expansion tank is on the cold line, that expanded water will flow through the water heater first ensuring an uninterrupted flow of hot water at the fixtures. The cold water line is also the "fool proof" location for expansion control as it centralizes where the expanded water can go.
@@amtrolinc The California required Dielectric Nipple heat trap is a check valve so the pressure from the tank will not travel to the cold/supply side?
A heat trap is intended to prevent heat from gravitating out of your water heater through the pipes, it should not inhibit any pressure or flow from moving freely. If you look inside one of those dielectric nipples, it is a loose rubber flap.
So your water pressure is 60lbs and you charge the expansion tank to 60lbs. As the water heats it expands and the pressure goes up.
The pressure exceeding 60psi pushes the bladder but that higher pressure exists everywhere in the system. Giving the water a place to expand into doesn’t control the pressure because the now increased air pressure in the tank is exerting that increased pressure back upon the water. Correct?
If you left the pressure gauge installed, filled the water heater with cold water and let it heat up, the pressure gauge would also go up, wouldn’t it?
Yes, it would. However, the pressure rise with a properly installed expansion tank is going to be far less than without. Since the water has the extra volume to expand into, the additional space minimizes that pressure rise across the remainder of the system.
Why did this system need a thermal expansion tank? Is there a check valve in the system?
This system had a backflow on the water meter. However, it is good practice to have a thermal expansion on all systems to manage expansion pressures from the water heater.
As far as the expansion tank's orientation: water intake at bottom vs. water intake at top: which one is going to result in maximum durability of the rubber membrane? Simple logic says: water intake at the bottom & Schrader valve at the top. Has there been any scientific test comparing one vs. the other? Home Depot sells one (globalwater solutions:
PressureWave 2.11 Gal. Inline Pressurized Well Tank) that has the product label that is readable when installed with water intake at bottom. Amtrol should consider re-thinking their recommended installation method when connected to a water heater, no? Amtrol also sells the (WX-101 (140PR1), 2 Gal WELL-X-TROL In-Line Well Tank) model, which has the product label readable when the water intake is at bottom.
The recommendation for the vertical-downward orientation mainly derives from the functionality of our indicator cap. The indicator cap is an early detection of a leak in the diaphragm to signal the need for service. As we mentioned, you can install the thermal expansion tank in any orientation as long as it is supported properly. We would expect equivalent lifespan in both vertical orientations you mentioned.
Your channel is amazing education. Thank you! Def subscribed!
Bad idea. I'm not a plumber but the tank has weight that puts stress on the pipe connection. such that over time there surely will be leaking from the connection because it isn't supported responsibly..
Plumbing code says it need to be supported by something other than the pipe itself.
Exactly, this is like suspending the water heater off the floor, by letting it hang by pipes.
Know your code it varies widely. Most code allows the unit to hang on copper no supports. Plenty of support so long as your copper is hung to code, which also veries...😅
@@its4michael so we can all learn the code as well as you, please site the plumbing code that allows a thermal expansion tank to be supported solely by the piping. Thank you
Like he said in the beginning. He's not a plumber. He should've kept saying that to himself over and over and over again. However, he felt the need to write something to show why he is not a plumber. Not that intelligent.
If you ever want to have a good time, you should google how to mount an expansion tank on a water heater.
What if you are not on city/town water but are on your own well with a pressure range of of 45 to 65 pounds? At what value do you set the expansion tank pressure?
Great question! We would recommend you set your expansion tank to the high limit of the pressure switch on your well system. Reason being, when you system is fully pressurized after a fill cycle, that is when you are most susceptible to hot water expansion rising to dangerous levels and you want the expansion tank to be optimized to run most efficiently at that point.
Should take the wife out now since you saved 200.00!...Nice restaurant please
you skip some steps....
BIG WASTE OF MONEY!!!! Iv'e never had an expansion tank & my water heater ran fine for years!!!!
Many state and local municipalities have introduced backflow preventers and plumbing codes that require an expansion tank to be used to protect the closed systems from unsafe pressures. In addition, if a backflow is present, most water heater manufacturers will require an expansion tank for warranty purposes.
without one it can and will shorten the life of the water heater and other potable water sourced appliances (dishwasher/washer/icemaker/ fittings ,piping, valves) it is there to minimize over pressurization of system......plus it is code ....and like Mr Amtrol says it will void warranties
You spelt four wrong, and yes that is a BIG WASTE OF MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's because with the backflow preventers installed ... in rare cases ( I have seen this personally) the water heater can cause expansion and blow fittings apart if the pop off valve on the water heater fails