My heating boiler has an Amtrol 30, written 2002 in Marker. Bought my house in 2009. Recently now has been raising pressure and relief valve opening releasing water on floor. Checked, did the knock test, tank is full, its done. Not bad for 21yrs. I ordered another Amtrol 👍
21 years is a long time for anything. Amtrol warranty is 5 years, so 21 is unusual. Maybe you were lucky, or it’s was underpressured vs municipal pressure so it wasn’t working properly.
The water heater will begin heat, hit it's temperature setpoint, and the resulting expanded water will enter the expansion tank. If no faucet or other fixture is opened, the expanded water will remain in the expansion tank until water is used and providing a safe method of egress. Every water heater will have a temperature setpoint, so the expansion does not occur indefinitely. When it comes to properly sizing an expansion tank, all these variables are considered to ensure proper operation.
Your heater stops heating at your selected water temperature of 120-140, otherwise the hot water becomes semi steam or steam, and the plumbing system is protected via heater’s a pressure relief valve of about 110 psi recognizing municipal is 30-70 psi. If that heater pressure valve doesn’t work, you have a big, big problem of broken pipe joints and flooding that won’t stop until you manually shut off water.
My house was built in 1993 and has no expansion tank. Would you recommend installing one, or is 30 yrs without any issues long enough to assume I don't have a closed loop system?
Chances are, you do not have a backflow preventer which allows the expanded water to push back out of your system. This may change if your water meter gets replaced and the municipality installs a backflow. Although it is good practice to have an expansion tank regardless, it may not be necessary in your application at this time.
Also, do you hear hammering or knocking when hot water is flowing. Knocking is caused by sudden water shutoff, or hot water looking for space to expand. An expansion tank is installed after the water heater via a t coupler with a female 1/2 or 3/4 to twist in a tank. The tank is pre charged to match your home/municipal water pressure of 30-70 psi. A 2 gallon tank is about $50, and plumber labor or if you can solder, do it yourself.
The expansion tank will help with minor water hammer throughout the home. If you have significant water hammer from a specific fixture in the home (such as a washing machine), it would still be recommended to have a specific hammer arrestor installed at the source of the shock.
It would be recommended for any water heater to have an expansion tank, including tankless. Although there is far less total volume (essentially just the piping and any small on board storage), there would be potential for heightened pressures due to hot water expansion. Amtrol has a product, the ST-1, that is designed specifically for On Demand or tankless style water heaters.
Yes, that would be an appropriate location. Anywhere between the backflow/meter and the water heater without any isolation valves in between, is acceptable.
There is a difference in the type of liner, turbulator, and warranty. For additional information, please contact our support team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@wthg.com
A well pressure tank will naturally take up an amount of the hot water expansion in your system if the piping allows (not too far away, no isolation valves, etc). However, it would be considered good practice to have an expansion tank located next to the water heater solely for the purpose of mitigating the hot water expansion at the source.
By gas I presume you are referring to the air precharge, which yes, you want to adjust the air pressure of the tank to match your incoming water pressure prior to installation. You can check out our video of how to install a thermal expansion tank to learn more: th-cam.com/video/H8beYeGxgJg/w-d-xo.html
Knocking is likely water hammer within your system that the expansion tank helps buffer. It may be low on air or needs to be replaced. Our Therm-X-Trol series average lifespan can vary 7-15 years depending on several system variables. If you have any additional questions, please contact our technical support team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@worthingtonindustries.com
As of June 2023, we have amended our IO manual to allow for multiple orientations on install (w/ support in horizontal) of our inline expansion tanks. The benefit of using our recommended vertical-downward orientation is you get full utilization of our indicator cap, which is an early warning of a tank that needs to be replaced. This can potentially save time and money with emergency service calls. Otherwise, you should not see a loss in performance from any of those orientations.
Why all of a sudden these water heaters now need expansion tanks? I just replaced a rheem water heater that was 30 years old and never had an expansion tank. Can somebody that has experience answer this for me because I think this is a scam just to add another part that costs you more money to change it.
Others are welcome to reply, but hopefully the video was able to explain how many modern domestic water systems are closed loop, meaning there is a backflow preventer installed at the meter. A closed system does not have anywhere for expanded hot water to go, therefore an expansion tank is necessary to absorb that increase in pressure to protect the components within that system. In addition, many water heater manufacturers and local plumbing codes will require an expansion tank for those reasons. Everyone's situation is different, if you do not have a backflow preventer, an expansion tank may not have been necessary for you over those years. As for new builds and repairs done to existing systems since ~1992, expansion tanks are very common practice.
My water heater knocks when is working, it’s that possible that whit an expansion tank the knocking sound disappears?? Excellent video and explanation!!
Yeah the video sure does explain how electricians and plumbers are crooks just like the government! you don't try to help anybody. You only try to manipulate and rip people off day in and day out. Especially the old folks! if any of you justify a fucken water heater with an expansion tank costing almost $4,000 to replace. Then you truly prove you are a crook and should quit your profession and go work for the government.
Thermal expansion tanks made no sense to me until you said that homes have a check valve. Now I see why we need Thermal expansion tanks. Thanks!
My heating boiler has an Amtrol 30, written 2002 in Marker. Bought my house in 2009. Recently now has been raising pressure and relief valve opening releasing water on floor. Checked, did the knock test, tank is full, its done. Not bad for 21yrs. I ordered another Amtrol 👍
21 years is a long time for anything. Amtrol warranty is 5 years, so 21 is unusual. Maybe you were lucky, or it’s was underpressured vs municipal pressure so it wasn’t working properly.
Outstanding video on explaining a expansion tank. 🤙
Thank you! 👍
Great video Thanks
Why do you install expansion tanks on the incoming cold water side as opposed to the outgoing hot water side?
Absolutely a great explanation !!!!
One question:
What if no faucet is opened and the heater keeps heating !?
The water heater will begin heat, hit it's temperature setpoint, and the resulting expanded water will enter the expansion tank. If no faucet or other fixture is opened, the expanded water will remain in the expansion tank until water is used and providing a safe method of egress. Every water heater will have a temperature setpoint, so the expansion does not occur indefinitely. When it comes to properly sizing an expansion tank, all these variables are considered to ensure proper operation.
Your heater stops heating at your selected water temperature of 120-140, otherwise the hot water becomes semi steam or steam, and the plumbing system is protected via heater’s a pressure relief valve of about 110 psi recognizing municipal is 30-70 psi. If that heater pressure valve doesn’t work, you have a big, big problem of broken pipe joints and flooding that won’t stop until you manually shut off water.
My house was built in 1993 and has no expansion tank. Would you recommend installing one, or is 30 yrs without any issues long enough to assume I don't have a closed loop system?
Chances are, you do not have a backflow preventer which allows the expanded water to push back out of your system. This may change if your water meter gets replaced and the municipality installs a backflow. Although it is good practice to have an expansion tank regardless, it may not be necessary in your application at this time.
Also, do you hear hammering or knocking when hot water is flowing. Knocking is caused by sudden water shutoff, or hot water looking for space to expand. An expansion tank is installed after the water heater via a t coupler with a female 1/2 or 3/4 to twist in a tank. The tank is pre charged to match your home/municipal water pressure of 30-70 psi. A 2 gallon tank is about $50, and plumber labor or if you can solder, do it yourself.
Is'n the tank also taking the place of air chambers that we used to put behind every stop to get rid of banging?
The expansion tank will help with minor water hammer throughout the home. If you have significant water hammer from a specific fixture in the home (such as a washing machine), it would still be recommended to have a specific hammer arrestor installed at the source of the shock.
Does a tankless water heater require an expansion tank?
It would be recommended for any water heater to have an expansion tank, including tankless. Although there is far less total volume (essentially just the piping and any small on board storage), there would be potential for heightened pressures due to hot water expansion. Amtrol has a product, the ST-1, that is designed specifically for On Demand or tankless style water heaters.
Does the orientation of the expansion tank matter. I plan on installing one upside down.
Our domestic expansion tanks can be installed in any orientation if supported properly for the weight if full of water.
Can you place an expansion tank on a main line right after back flow preventer?
Yes, that would be an appropriate location. Anywhere between the backflow/meter and the water heater without any isolation valves in between, is acceptable.
What is the difference between Therm-X- span and therm-x- trol? I can’t find any info on my therm-x-span and I need to replace it
There is a difference in the type of liner, turbulator, and warranty. For additional information, please contact our support team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@wthg.com
Do I need an expansion tank if I have a well with a pressure tank installed ?
A well pressure tank will naturally take up an amount of the hot water expansion in your system if the piping allows (not too far away, no isolation valves, etc). However, it would be considered good practice to have an expansion tank located next to the water heater solely for the purpose of mitigating the hot water expansion at the source.
Do you mess with the gas while installating the water expansion tank?
By gas I presume you are referring to the air precharge, which yes, you want to adjust the air pressure of the tank to match your incoming water pressure prior to installation. You can check out our video of how to install a thermal expansion tank to learn more: th-cam.com/video/H8beYeGxgJg/w-d-xo.html
Mine is knocking. What is the life spand for this tank?
Knocking is likely water hammer within your system that the expansion tank helps buffer. It may be low on air or needs to be replaced. Our Therm-X-Trol series average lifespan can vary 7-15 years depending on several system variables. If you have any additional questions, please contact our technical support team at amtrolwatersystemsinfo@worthingtonindustries.com
The question is does it matter if the tank install up or down or sideway?
As of June 2023, we have amended our IO manual to allow for multiple orientations on install (w/ support in horizontal) of our inline expansion tanks. The benefit of using our recommended vertical-downward orientation is you get full utilization of our indicator cap, which is an early warning of a tank that needs to be replaced. This can potentially save time and money with emergency service calls. Otherwise, you should not see a loss in performance from any of those orientations.
Why all of a sudden these water heaters now need expansion tanks? I just replaced a rheem water heater that was 30 years old and never had an expansion tank. Can somebody that has experience answer this for me because I think this is a scam just to add another part that costs you more money to change it.
Others are welcome to reply, but hopefully the video was able to explain how many modern domestic water systems are closed loop, meaning there is a backflow preventer installed at the meter. A closed system does not have anywhere for expanded hot water to go, therefore an expansion tank is necessary to absorb that increase in pressure to protect the components within that system. In addition, many water heater manufacturers and local plumbing codes will require an expansion tank for those reasons. Everyone's situation is different, if you do not have a backflow preventer, an expansion tank may not have been necessary for you over those years. As for new builds and repairs done to existing systems since ~1992, expansion tanks are very common practice.
My water heater knocks when is working, it’s that possible that whit an expansion tank the knocking sound disappears?? Excellent video and explanation!!
Yeah the video sure does explain how electricians and plumbers are crooks just like the government! you don't try to help anybody. You only try to manipulate and rip people off day in and day out. Especially the old folks! if any of you justify a fucken water heater with an expansion tank costing almost $4,000 to replace. Then you truly prove you are a crook and should quit your profession and go work for the government.
Did you not watch the video?
@@Penny_Wolf exactly!