Jerry West is the logo because he was one of the best players back at that time and we all know they were not going to pick a black player to be the logo
Good arguments bro. I'm a MJ fan but what did Lebron is not to be disqualified even tho 4-6 is very hard to have as a record. But I appreciate those arguments you did about the eastern conference being weak and MJ
It’s not about winning until it’s about lebron. All the ppl that scream 4-6 don’t even have bill Russell in their top 3 and he is 11-2 and it was done in 13 seasons.
Winning shouldn't be the only criteria but should still matter. The fact that Bron won 4 chips contributes to his greatness right? Heck, people praise Bron for MAKING the Finals 10x, let alone winning it. Knock it off 😂
@Jeremy-y5f 4 chips and 4 finals mvps. No other player can say that except jordan. The difference is lebron did it for 3 different teams and vs way better competition. So him going to more finals also matters as well. He has more finals appearances than 27 out of 30 nba franchises. And not only that he has the most playoff wins and most playoff series wins. So I don't wanna keep hearing this nonsense of yall saying it's about winning as if lebron has never won anything. You go to 10 finals you ain't going undefeated unless you got bad competition. And lebron played the spurs and warriors 7 of 10 times and 5 of his 6 losses comes vs those teams. Dynasties. There's only one finals you can say he shouldn't have lost and that's 2011. But he was favored 3 times and won 4 championships.
@@sportstalkonly1442 dang man you have no context to your arguments at all lol. You fail to mention he didn't win until he teamed up with other superstars. MJ had 1 all-star his entire career (Scottie). You fail to mention the path to the Finals was far tougher in MJ's era. The east were full of dynasties. The Celtics alone had 5 hof's. I never said Brons 10 Finals appearances were not great. I'm just saying it doesn't matter at the end of the day if you don't win. Making it farther doesn't make you a better player. And no, winning is not everything. I didn't say that either. But it definitely is huge when discussing the 🐐. However you slice it, on the games biggest stage, MJ three-peated twice. And he did it with less help.
@Jeremy-y5f what does lebron teaming up with help when all great players had help have to do with what I mentioned? There is no context to 4 chips and 4 finals mvps
@Jeremy-y5f but lebron did win. He just did not win all 10. If you go to that many finals you are not gonna go undefeated in the modern era. That's just facts.there's only one finals you can point to and say it was his fault. One out of nine. He has 4 of the top 10 highest gamescore in the nba finals. He ranks second and third in nearly every category in the finals. He averages 28, 10 and 8 over a 10 finals span. He led both teams and all players in everything in the nba finals. I can keep going.
That’s the problem. No one never really praised. Just making it to the finals, but not winning it until LeBron came along back in the day. People only cherished winning the finals. Remember the saying if you’re not first your last. So just making it to the finals. Is not enough for. You have to actually win it.
But y’all act like there’s some special emphasis on losing in the final round instead of losing in an earlier round. Hakeem only made two finals in like 16 years but since he won both of them y’all ignore the other 14 years when he couldn’t even get to the finals.
@ Well the way I see it is losing in earlier playoff rounds. Is not that bad because you always have a chance to come back next year and try to win the championship again, but once you lose in the finals, it goes on your finals record forever so to me, it is worse to lose in the finals than early on in the playoffs and if you want to criticize Hakeem, you have the right to do so
@@puncho8799nobody cares. He has 4 championships and 4 finals mvps. Only one other guy in nba history can say that. The difference is lebron did it for 3 different teams and did it vs better competition
@ Let’s not forget about his 6 final losses and the only reason he won on three different teams is because he kept ring chasing and creating super teams it’s not as impressive as his fans. Try to make it out to be.
I got MJ as the GOAT but When MJ was in the weak Eastern Conference he couldn’t get to the finals until Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson came. Lebron is the only player in NBA history that has showcased you can put him on a team with him being the only Superstar and be able to take that team to the finals. Yeah he’s 4-6 but people seems to forget that bro went against super teams in the finals I’m talking about going up against 4 Hall of Famers on one team with him being the only one on his team. I wonder if Jordan Didn’t have Pippen and Rodman could he beat MJ and the Lakers in the finals if he played them twice highly doubt it. 3 of those finals losses don’t even count when we talk about his legacy because he still won 4 championships and been to the finals 10 times simple as that. Kobe 5-2 Kobe had shaq carrying him to a 3 peat if it wasn’t for shaq Kobe wouldn’t even have 5 championships stop it nobody care if he’s 5-2 Kobe didn’t have to play nowhere near the competition LeBron had to play in the finals plus he wasn’t even the best player on 3 of those championships he won go sit down somewhere I promise you I can cook these LeBron haters with ease they already be sounding stupid. Man I wish kobe had the career LeBron had first seven years in the league with no shaq and him being the only all star with a bunch of role players let’s see if he would’ve even won 1 championship I guarantee you he wouldn’t have mans legit was losing so bad he told the front office “if you don’t get me some help I want to get traded”. Man get out of here Kobe nowhere near as good as LeBron Kobe fans be delusional as crap bro I promise you. And for the “east being weak” the east wasn’t weak Lebron made the east look weak that’s how that was if Kobe had the same type of career LeBron had in the east he wouldn’t have a championship at all promise you that.
The east was not weak when Jordan played so your premise is dismissed. The east had The 76ers, Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks, Detroit Pistons and Atlanta Hawks. Then after the Celtics, Bucks and sixers took a step back. Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, and Pacers rose up.
@@mostmost1Jordan was making the playoffs and the bulls were only winning like 35 games his first couple seasons. And if the east was so tough then why didn’t an east team win the title when Jordan was retired the first time? Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller and penny weren’t good enough maybe?
@@jaydot4956 how old are you? There were 11 teams per conference. The Bulls battled for that last playoff spot in a tough east child. Boston, Detroit and Philadelphia were recent or upcoming champions in that east Jordan was drafted to. Only the Lakers won a chip in the west Jordan's entire career until Houston won it. Don't try and change the narrative about the east after Mike retired either. Only the Knicks and Pacers took the bulls to a 7 game series after they won chips. Only the Mahic beat them in a series. How come the Rockets couldn't beat the jazz or Super sonics? Maybe they weren't good enough.
Magic Johnson got five championships in 12 years nine finals appearances what are you talking about bro? The glazing for LeBron needs to stop… his longevity actually help hurt him in the go debate
You can’t Flop and be the Goat, you can’t stack the deck AND STILL lose and be the Goat. LeBron has had the most help than ANY superstar ever. I’ve never heard anyone call the Buffalo Bills one of the greatest teams ever and they went to the Superbowl 4 years straight!! LeBron is the greatest Loser, I’ll give you that
@@Ronnieprice1979 Yea because what happened to the times when Kobe couldn't get to the Finals, he only got there 7 times in 20 years....shouldn't he be discounted for not being good enough to get to the Finals in them other years??
lebron has the most wins in playoff history the most series wins in playoff history and tie tim duncan in 2nd for the most wins if u combine regular season and playoff in nba history. not winning logic doesn't work on lebron. goat james
I’m a Kobe fan and Lebron is definitely an all-time great player. Who are the people saying he’s not a great player? Everyone in the big media say Lebron is a top 2 player at the very least.
No it doesn't. What does team records have to do with individual greatness. When we say goat we are saying greatest player. Not the player with the best finals record or best team accomplishments. Who is the best individual player? Finals records don't prove or disprove that.
I've been watching, playing and mentoring since 1980 when it comes to the game of basketball. I've done book reports in school on the subject and been in plenty debates about it. Pound for Pound with all things considered the 5 greatest basketball players in NBA history are Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Michael Jordan and LeBron James... Magic, Shaq, Duncan and Bird are the group after those guys. The biggest debate is the last player in the 2nd group. Is it Kobe,Curry,Olajuwon,Dr. J, Moses Malone,Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, John Havlicheck, Kevin Durant?
I agree that Bron should still be top 5, despite being 4-6. However, a losing record in the Finals should definitely disqualify him from being in the goat convo. Goat candidates should be scrutinized at the highest level. And as unfair as it sounds, it doesn't matter if a player doesn't make it to the Finals vs a player who made it 100 times. Both players are in the same boat. Is it unfair? Maybe, but thats just the way it is. There is simply no second place trophy 🤷🏾♂️
@Jeremy-y5f you make no sense every time MJ lost before finals is a loss also , losing before finals is worse than losing in finals where the 2 best teams that year are playing if you gonna ding LeBron for finals loss we gonna ding Mj for getting beat in. 1st and 2nd rounds you are clueless.
@russellrudolph4051 haha ok so you know what that means then right? By your logic, you have to count every year Bron doesn't make it to the Finals. Now your argument for Bron is actually worse 😂🤣🤣. As long as he keeps playing and not making it to the Finals it counts as a loss. So when he finally retires, he will be like 4-100, rather than 4-6 🤣 You Bron fans are weird I swear smh 🤦🏾
Lebron is an all-time great player but in context, after his first stint in Cleveland he did tip the scale in his favor in the east with Wade and Bosh. The Mcgrady's and Iverson's of the world never played with that level of help. I know Mcgrady played with Grant Hill for a hot second but Grant was injury prone at that time. You have to admit that the only reason Lebron even made it to the Finals 8 consecutive seasons is because he weakened the conference with his team hopping. There was no competition in the east when he was in Miami other than Paul George in Indiana and his return to Cleveland with Kyrie and K Love his only opps was Derozan and Lowry in Toronto not nearly enough to be Cleveland. IMO 2nd greatest is too high for me because of the path he chose. He ducked the grind so 6-10 is where he sits for.
So what about the celtics? Don't make it seem like lebron just left for no reason. And I'm not hearing that weak east excuse because since he's left nobody has even gone to back to back finals.
losing in the finals and not making it to the finals is all the same to me. they dont give out 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place etc...awards last time i check. there can only be one winner. once succesful season. everyone else are the losers
But to act like finals appearances don’t hold some kind of weight when discussing certain players is crazy, if you have two former MVPs and both didn’t win a championship but one of them at least led a team to the finals then you would rank the player who led his team to a finals over the player who didn’t.
@mackavelimillz Curry turned the most abysmal franchise in the sport, into the gem of the league. He literally shaped how the modern game is played at every level. All while displaying such humility. James is incredible, but his career just has this manufactured feel to it, plastic
@@Maxx-w9bno it's just facts. The nba takes on the style of the play of the nba champions. Once lebron beat golden state the 3 point era was over. Kd joining the warriors caused every team to have to adapt to that level of 3 point shooting and scoring. That's ultimately what led to teams shooting like this.
🤣WOW what about being-86 in plus minus in the NBA Finals…What about Most Turnovers in NBA Historical History….it’s not About what you do but how you do it…Joining DWade wasn’t Gangsta or GOAT Activity💯🤣
True dat‼️but why he Down bad 3-1 in the first place if he so Gangsta that championship was Great but again if You really Gangsta you gotta put more than just 1 Banner up in Ohio especially with 40k worth of nba points
@@DarylWilliamson-gx8eqbecause the second and third best players in the world in their prime teamed up to stop the best. Tf u mean you gotta win more than one.
So how can a team accolade stop someone from being better than someone individually? Because that is what y’all do against bill vs mj. Mj is better than bill individually but he didn’t win more and y’all don’t care. Y’all start changing the narrative about era and skill level
You’re going to ultimately attract more LeBron fans because you talk about him as if he’s your goat even though you say that he’s not. It’s kind of like FYF/Lamont he started out as a good unbiased channel and he also claims that Jordan is his goat, but then he started talking down on Jordan and the 90s era so he started to attract a lot of LeBron fans and now he’s a very biased LeBron channel and he’s on record saying once LeBron retires. He’s going to announce that. LeBron is the goat but for the moment he still has. Jordan has the goat but real ones know the truth.
So because he doesn't hate lebron like you and all these other jordan worshippers it means he doesn't have jordan as the goat? So to have jordan as the goat you have to show open hatred for lebron?
@@puncho8799bro idc where you rank lebron. You pretty much implied that because Lamont and anyone that praises lebron has him as the goat just because they don't show hatred and bias towards him. Notice I didn't say you but you outed yourself as a lebron hater. Just because ppl are not lebron haters that harp on his negative moments it doesn't mean they have him as the goat. You can have jordan as the goat and still appreciate lebron.
@ I never said people like Lamont has to hate LeBron, but we all know when someone is glazing LeBron and Lamont and Bang does it the most while at the same time criticizing Jordan and Kobe
4 with 4 finals mvps. 3 finals mvps on 3 different teams. Most playoff series wins and most playoff wins. Team record has nothing to do with who the greatest individual player is. You can put up insane numbers and still lose that don't mean you aren't great.
@@marvinj1000wrong . Jordan fans does that. The fact that LeBron is still playing and the haters ridicule everything LeBron does. Jordan isn’t relevant as far as basketball unless LeBron is brought up. So when yall bash LeBron we go back and do research in the 1900’s and trash Jordan as well. Don’t ditch out what you can’t take.
If Klutch hired me, I told you, I would be in a mansion with diamonds my dancing like Omarion in the "Touch" video...LeBron is an all-time great..who is your favorite player?
And he won four times!!! How about the other times Kobe and other greats never even made it to the Finals...they was supposed to be playing to win in those years too right?
@@mackavelimillzhow bout the years he didn’t make it to the finals? And let’s not forget 2011 when him and DWade tried to mock Dirk and lived to regret it. We can’t respect someone who carries himself like an entitled child with passive-aggressive tendencies and still does to this day, that single mother energy is strong in him.
@@danieljett3251 Kobe had a father and still told on another man's infidelities.(Shaq)...was that single mother energy displayed then?? (May I add, most of your favorite players grew up without a father, in all sports)
@ why you keep bringing up Kobe? You have no idea who my favorite players are and none of them act like that. This the problem with society y’all try to find any excuse to allow bad behavior.
He not better than Kobe stop it you can’t have a losing finals record and be considered no 2 behind Jordan he made it to the finals so much cause he was with stacked super teams he couldn’t even beat the teams Kobe beat in the finals till he got with wade 😂😂
@@mackavelimillz he made it to the finals cause he was on a stacked team and he lost in 07 that same team Kobe beat the next year 😂😂 and 2018 he got swept 🧹 why bring up series he lost you don’t get credit for losing
@@mequelmcdaniels4808 Yes Kobe won a 3 peat with Shaquille O'Neal has the Head Honcho on the squad...and you know Shaq was the best player on them squads....how many points Kobe get for that?
I don’t really understand the logic of these people trying to act like the bubble championship isn’t legit or something. Were all the playoff teams there? yes Were all the players there? yes Were the games structured in the normal format? yes Were there still 7 game series? yes Was it still basketball being played? yes The only difference was it was held in a centralized location with no fans, for medical safety reasons…no advantages for any specific team. Basically folks just hate the fact that it was Lebron who won.
@mackavelimillz Lebron is a great player. But you better put Tim Duncan in that conversation, too. Because he won five championships and almost beat The Heat twice in the finals.
They never keep the same energy for their favorite player or players.
Facts.
That’s what these “fans” never understand.
JERRY WEST IS 1 - 9 IN THE NBA FINALS AND HE IS THE NBA LOGO.....SPEAK 2 ME😳😳😳😳😳😳
Jerry isn’t considered in most ppls top 10.
Is Jerry West in the goat conversation?
Jerry West is the logo because he was one of the best players back at that time and we all know they were not going to pick a black player to be the logo
Noone calls him the GOAT he’s an icon tho
HE IS STILL CONSIDERED ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS EVER....HE DOESN'T HAVE 2 B IN THE GOAT CONVERSATION .......1 - 9
Bron got more final mvps than kobe
Good arguments bro. I'm a MJ fan but what did Lebron is not to be disqualified even tho 4-6 is very hard to have as a record. But I appreciate those arguments you did about the eastern conference being weak and MJ
So am i a fan of LeBron style of play and they act like they are insulting me when they say oh your a LeBron fan not a insult to me 🏀🙄
It’s not about winning until it’s about lebron. All the ppl that scream 4-6 don’t even have bill Russell in their top 3 and he is 11-2 and it was done in 13 seasons.
Winning shouldn't be the only criteria but should still matter. The fact that Bron won 4 chips contributes to his greatness right? Heck, people praise Bron for MAKING the Finals 10x, let alone winning it. Knock it off 😂
@Jeremy-y5f 4 chips and 4 finals mvps. No other player can say that except jordan. The difference is lebron did it for 3 different teams and vs way better competition. So him going to more finals also matters as well. He has more finals appearances than 27 out of 30 nba franchises. And not only that he has the most playoff wins and most playoff series wins. So I don't wanna keep hearing this nonsense of yall saying it's about winning as if lebron has never won anything. You go to 10 finals you ain't going undefeated unless you got bad competition. And lebron played the spurs and warriors 7 of 10 times and 5 of his 6 losses comes vs those teams. Dynasties. There's only one finals you can say he shouldn't have lost and that's 2011. But he was favored 3 times and won 4 championships.
@@sportstalkonly1442 dang man you have no context to your arguments at all lol. You fail to mention he didn't win until he teamed up with other superstars. MJ had 1 all-star his entire career (Scottie).
You fail to mention the path to the Finals was far tougher in MJ's era. The east were full of dynasties. The Celtics alone had 5 hof's.
I never said Brons 10 Finals appearances were not great. I'm just saying it doesn't matter at the end of the day if you don't win. Making it farther doesn't make you a better player. And no, winning is not everything. I didn't say that either. But it definitely is huge when discussing the 🐐.
However you slice it, on the games biggest stage, MJ three-peated twice. And he did it with less help.
@Jeremy-y5f what does lebron teaming up with help when all great players had help have to do with what I mentioned? There is no context to 4 chips and 4 finals mvps
@Jeremy-y5f but lebron did win. He just did not win all 10. If you go to that many finals you are not gonna go undefeated in the modern era. That's just facts.there's only one finals you can point to and say it was his fault. One out of nine. He has 4 of the top 10 highest gamescore in the nba finals. He ranks second and third in nearly every category in the finals. He averages 28, 10 and 8 over a 10 finals span. He led both teams and all players in everything in the nba finals. I can keep going.
That’s the problem. No one never really praised. Just making it to the finals, but not winning it until LeBron came along back in the day. People only cherished winning the finals. Remember the saying if you’re not first your last. So just making it to the finals. Is not enough for. You have to actually win it.
But y’all act like there’s some special emphasis on losing in the final round instead of losing in an earlier round. Hakeem only made two finals in like 16 years but since he won both of them y’all ignore the other 14 years when he couldn’t even get to the finals.
@ Well the way I see it is losing in earlier playoff rounds. Is not that bad because you always have a chance to come back next year and try to win the championship again, but once you lose in the finals, it goes on your finals record forever so to me, it is worse to lose in the finals than early on in the playoffs and if you want to criticize Hakeem, you have the right to do so
@@puncho8799nobody cares. He has 4 championships and 4 finals mvps. Only one other guy in nba history can say that. The difference is lebron did it for 3 different teams and did it vs better competition
@puncho8799 he won 4 times. Yall act like he never won anything. You can't keep saying it's about winning when he has won 4 times with 4 finals mvps.
@ Let’s not forget about his 6 final losses and the only reason he won on three different teams is because he kept ring chasing and creating super teams it’s not as impressive as his fans. Try to make it out to be.
I got MJ as the GOAT but When MJ was in the weak Eastern Conference he couldn’t get to the finals until Scottie Pippen and Phil Jackson came. Lebron is the only player in NBA history that has showcased you can put him on a team with him being the only Superstar and be able to take that team to the finals.
Yeah he’s 4-6 but people seems to forget that bro went against super teams in the finals I’m talking about going up against 4 Hall of Famers on one team with him being the only one on his team. I wonder if Jordan Didn’t have Pippen and Rodman could he beat MJ and the Lakers in the finals if he played them twice highly doubt it. 3 of those finals losses don’t even count when we talk about his legacy because he still won 4 championships and been to the finals 10 times simple as that. Kobe 5-2 Kobe had shaq carrying him to a 3 peat if it wasn’t for shaq Kobe wouldn’t even have 5 championships stop it nobody care if he’s 5-2 Kobe didn’t have to play nowhere near the competition LeBron had to play in the finals plus he wasn’t even the best player on 3 of those championships he won go sit down somewhere I promise you I can cook these LeBron haters with ease they already be sounding stupid.
Man I wish kobe had the career LeBron had first seven years in the league with no shaq and him being the only all star with a bunch of role players let’s see if he would’ve even won 1 championship I guarantee you he wouldn’t have mans legit was losing so bad he told the front office “if you don’t get me some help I want to get traded”. Man get out of here Kobe nowhere near as good as LeBron Kobe fans be delusional as crap bro I promise you. And for the “east being weak” the east wasn’t weak Lebron made the east look weak that’s how that was if Kobe had the same type of career LeBron had in the east he wouldn’t have a championship at all promise you that.
He was supposed to win the chip his first 3 years ? 😅😅 Same rules don’t apply to Lebron huh lol smh
The east was not weak when Jordan played so your premise is dismissed. The east had The 76ers, Boston Celtics, Milwaukee Bucks, Detroit Pistons and Atlanta Hawks. Then after the Celtics, Bucks and sixers took a step back. Cavs, Knicks, Bulls, and Pacers rose up.
@@mostmost1Jordan was making the playoffs and the bulls were only winning like 35 games his first couple seasons. And if the east was so tough then why didn’t an east team win the title when Jordan was retired the first time? Patrick Ewing, Reggie Miller and penny weren’t good enough maybe?
@@jaydot4956 how old are you? There were 11 teams per conference. The Bulls battled for that last playoff spot in a tough east child. Boston, Detroit and Philadelphia were recent or upcoming champions in that east Jordan was drafted to. Only the Lakers won a chip in the west Jordan's entire career until Houston won it. Don't try and change the narrative about the east after Mike retired either. Only the Knicks and Pacers took the bulls to a 7 game series after they won chips. Only the Mahic beat them in a series. How come the Rockets couldn't beat the jazz or Super sonics? Maybe they weren't good enough.
It don’t disqualify it just put him behind MJ,Kobe, and Kareem he’s top 5 @ 5
Magic Johnson got five championships in 12 years nine finals appearances what are you talking about bro? The glazing for LeBron needs to stop… his longevity actually help hurt him in the go debate
Magic 12 years 5 rings, labron 22 years 4 rings
You can’t Flop and be the Goat, you can’t stack the deck AND STILL lose and be the Goat. LeBron has had the most help than ANY superstar ever. I’ve never heard anyone call the Buffalo Bills one of the greatest teams ever and they went to the Superbowl 4 years straight!! LeBron is the greatest Loser, I’ll give you that
LeBron won 4 times...the Buffalo Bills NEVER won!!!
I don't have LeBron as the Goat, I have Mike as the Goat and LeBron as #2 overall
@ but based on your metrics, just getting there is good enough
You’re giving him credit for just getting there!!
@@Ronnieprice1979 Yea because what happened to the times when Kobe couldn't get to the Finals, he only got there 7 times in 20 years....shouldn't he be discounted for not being good enough to get to the Finals in them other years??
4 finals MVPs is good for 2nd place
I totally agree with you
My criteria: any NBA pantheon great that has a losing NBA finals record aren't in the goat conversation.
Right!! 💯
Hakeem?
@@thefunguy5069 Hakeem is 2-1 in finals. Lost in 86 and won in 94 and 95
@ oh
Get jordan d out yo mouth damn
lebron has the most wins in playoff history the most series wins in playoff history and tie tim duncan in 2nd for the most wins if u combine regular season and playoff in nba history. not winning logic doesn't work on lebron. goat james
Yes it does top players win thats why all the other top players have winning finals records
He won 4 with 4 finals mvps. Nobody else can say that except jordan
I’m a Kobe fan and Lebron is definitely an all-time great player. Who are the people saying he’s not a great player? Everyone in the big media say Lebron is a top 2 player at the very least.
Tracy McGrady isn't a pantheon great there's levels to it.
Agreed he was just a great individual player no real impact on a teams success in the bigger picture
Some people will praise Tmac who never won anything but then say Lebron is trash because he only has 4 rings, I see it all the time.
@@jaydot4956 T Mac fans never go as far as comparing him to all time greats.
@@rapgodreloaded9259 I’ve heard people say that Tmac was on Kobe’s level when he was with the Magic.
Yeah but it disqualifies him from being the goat. Nobody said Lebron wasn’t an all time great.
People coming on my TH-cam saying he not top 5 and not top 10...that's crazy!!!
No it doesn't. What does team records have to do with individual greatness. When we say goat we are saying greatest player. Not the player with the best finals record or best team accomplishments. Who is the best individual player? Finals records don't prove or disprove that.
Four championships in 22 years is good, but you cannot be the greatest of all time especially when you have so many flaws in your game
Do these dudes know how hard it is to get to a championship?
If ur a all time great player or in the goat conversation u have to deliver when it counts losing is unacceptable
@@tyrellhines9304Basketball is a team sport though, you can be the best player and your team can still lose.
i love it, u stay giving content that’s diverse
Jerry West is a white guy, and no one ever gives him credit for being a top 5 player
It’s everything else too
You right 11 is better than 6 that's why I have Bill Russell the goat😅😅😅
You can't FLOP and claim Greatness
So Chris Paul not great huh?
@@mackavelimillzhe’s great but not among the greatest there’s levels to greatness.
You can’t quit the game of basketball just to play baseball and claim greatness.
@mackavelimillz if the Casket fits BURYem
MJ was flopping, Kobe flopped I’ve seen it all
Labron playing 25 years
💯
I've been watching, playing and mentoring since 1980 when it comes to the game of basketball. I've done book reports in school on the subject and been in plenty debates about it. Pound for Pound with all things considered the 5 greatest basketball players in NBA history are Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Kareem Abdul Jabbar, Michael Jordan and LeBron James... Magic, Shaq, Duncan and Bird are the group after those guys. The biggest debate is the last player in the 2nd group. Is it Kobe,Curry,Olajuwon,Dr. J, Moses Malone,Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, John Havlicheck, Kevin Durant?
Goat debate been over, but 5 is more than 4, 6 is better than 4 too. So what's your point
11 is more than 6 too....so by that logic Bill Russell is your goat right?? So what's your point? 😁
Can you please do a video talking about last night's game with Lakers and Nuggets
I didn't even watch it to see what happened bro....I gotta check out the highlights
@mackavelimillz ok 👍
How about he does a video of Kobe's inefficiency and overrated defense. Or how Kobe beat a SA case because of celebrity and 💰 among other things.
I agree that Bron should still be top 5, despite being 4-6. However, a losing record in the Finals should definitely disqualify him from being in the goat convo. Goat candidates should be scrutinized at the highest level.
And as unfair as it sounds, it doesn't matter if a player doesn't make it to the Finals vs a player who made it 100 times. Both players are in the same boat. Is it unfair? Maybe, but thats just the way it is. There is simply no second place trophy 🤷🏾♂️
Ridiculous LeBron gets you farther if you don't get there you are worse period .
@russellrudolph4051 yeah ok so I made it farther that's great👍🏽 . Meanwhile I'm still sent home just like all the other losers 🙄 🤣. Makes zero sense
@Jeremy-y5f you make no sense every time MJ lost before finals is a loss also , losing before finals is worse than losing in finals where the 2 best teams that year are playing if you gonna ding LeBron for finals loss we gonna ding Mj for getting beat in. 1st and 2nd rounds you are clueless.
@russellrudolph4051 haha ok so you know what that means then right? By your logic, you have to count every year Bron doesn't make it to the Finals. Now your argument for Bron is actually worse 😂🤣🤣. As long as he keeps playing and not making it to the Finals it counts as a loss. So when he finally retires, he will be like 4-100, rather than 4-6 🤣
You Bron fans are weird I swear smh 🤦🏾
@@Jeremy-y5f4 chips and 4 finals mvps. Nobody else can say that but jordan. He has won so yall can't keep saying it's about winning
bro, its over for lbj,its too late
Lebron is an all-time great player but in context, after his first stint in Cleveland he did tip the scale in his favor in the east with Wade and Bosh. The Mcgrady's and Iverson's of the world never played with that level of help. I know Mcgrady played with Grant Hill for a hot second but Grant was injury prone at that time. You have to admit that the only reason Lebron even made it to the Finals 8 consecutive seasons is because he weakened the conference with his team hopping. There was no competition in the east when he was in Miami other than Paul George in Indiana and his return to Cleveland with Kyrie and K Love his only opps was Derozan and Lowry in Toronto not nearly enough to be Cleveland. IMO 2nd greatest is too high for me because of the path he chose. He ducked the grind so 6-10 is where he sits for.
So what about the celtics? Don't make it seem like lebron just left for no reason. And I'm not hearing that weak east excuse because since he's left nobody has even gone to back to back finals.
losing in the finals and not making it to the finals is all the same to me. they dont give out 2nd place, 3rd place, 4th place etc...awards last time i check. there can only be one winner. once succesful season. everyone else are the losers
But to act like finals appearances don’t hold some kind of weight when discussing certain players is crazy, if you have two former MVPs and both didn’t win a championship but one of them at least led a team to the finals then you would rank the player who led his team to a finals over the player who didn’t.
No other sport has a GOAT with a losing championship record, but I guess he’s special
Have you ever heard me call LeBron the goat tho? I have him #2 overall
Right!! 💯
10 trips to the finals including 8 in a row with 4 finals mvps? You are a hater and a casual that never played a pick up game.
@ What does that have to do with him saying no sport as a goat with a loose record? 🤷🏽♂️
Basketball is a team sport championships are won by a team not an individual player but because it’s LeBron and he loses it’s all his fault
You said it, severely inferior conference. Curry has an argument in goating James
Not with 1 Finals MVP he doesn't
@mackavelimillz Curry turned the most abysmal franchise in the sport, into the gem of the league. He literally shaped how the modern game is played at every level. All while displaying such humility. James is incredible, but his career just has this manufactured feel to it, plastic
@@Maxx-w9bcurry did not. Kevin Durant did. The only reason the 3 point shot is so prevalent is because kd joined the warriors.
@@sportstalkonly1442 Is this KDs burner? 😂
@@Maxx-w9bno it's just facts. The nba takes on the style of the play of the nba champions. Once lebron beat golden state the 3 point era was over. Kd joining the warriors caused every team to have to adapt to that level of 3 point shooting and scoring. That's ultimately what led to teams shooting like this.
You are not going to make on this channel, good luck on this old info you putting out.
I say Bron is 1st
🤣WOW what about being-86 in plus minus in the NBA Finals…What about Most Turnovers in NBA Historical History….it’s not About what you do but how you do it…Joining DWade wasn’t Gangsta or GOAT Activity💯🤣
Coming back from 3-1 against a 73-9 team and leading all players in EVERY Statistical Category was BIG GANGSTA THO!!!
True dat‼️but why he Down bad 3-1 in the first place if he so Gangsta that championship was Great but again if You really Gangsta you gotta put more than just 1 Banner up in Ohio especially with 40k worth of nba points
@@mackavelimillz 2016 Warriors isn't an all time great team. They're not even top 40
there's no way you're serious
@@DarylWilliamson-gx8eqbecause the second and third best players in the world in their prime teamed up to stop the best. Tf u mean you gotta win more than one.
It doesn’t neither does not winning a championship but it does stop him from being better than Jordan.
I got Mike as #1 and LeBron as #2
@ that’s fair
So how can a team accolade stop someone from being better than someone individually? Because that is what y’all do against bill vs mj. Mj is better than bill individually but he didn’t win more and y’all don’t care. Y’all start changing the narrative about era and skill level
@ same way a team accolade can help someone’s case.
You can’t name a player that won more than MJ with better stats.
@Zulu-Lemon the only stat that's great is his scoring.
Ofc it matters hahaha
You’re going to ultimately attract more LeBron fans because you talk about him as if he’s your goat even though you say that he’s not. It’s kind of like FYF/Lamont he started out as a good unbiased channel and he also claims that Jordan is his goat, but then he started talking down on Jordan and the 90s era so he started to attract a lot of LeBron fans and now he’s a very biased LeBron channel and he’s on record saying once LeBron retires. He’s going to announce that. LeBron is the goat but for the moment he still has. Jordan has the goat but real ones know the truth.
So because he doesn't hate lebron like you and all these other jordan worshippers it means he doesn't have jordan as the goat? So to have jordan as the goat you have to show open hatred for lebron?
@ Who said I hate LeBron. I think LeBron is a great player. I just have Jordan and Kobe ahead of him. So he’s in my top 5.🤷🏽♂️
@@puncho8799bro idc where you rank lebron. You pretty much implied that because Lamont and anyone that praises lebron has him as the goat just because they don't show hatred and bias towards him. Notice I didn't say you but you outed yourself as a lebron hater. Just because ppl are not lebron haters that harp on his negative moments it doesn't mean they have him as the goat. You can have jordan as the goat and still appreciate lebron.
@ I never said people like Lamont has to hate LeBron, but we all know when someone is glazing LeBron and Lamont and Bang does it the most while at the same time criticizing Jordan and Kobe
@@puncho8799no. What lamont and bang do is give jordan and kobe the same criticisms haters like you give lebron.
He is a a great and top 5, but he is not the Greatest of All Time aka (All Time Great).
If you goat mj as the goat, 2,3,4 and 5 don't matters so what's your point. Labron sucks
LeBron being less than perfect in the finals is his legacy he went 9 times and won 4 no bueno My guy 😂😂😂😂
4 with 4 finals mvps. 3 finals mvps on 3 different teams. Most playoff series wins and most playoff wins. Team record has nothing to do with who the greatest individual player is. You can put up insane numbers and still lose that don't mean you aren't great.
@ lebron is great but not the Greatest my guy Lebron wants MJ legacy that’s a fact
@@Doeski_75why would he want Jordan’s legacy when he has a better legacy and is the greater player
@@sportstalkonly1442 some ppl will never believe that LeBron is a better basketball player than MJ and LeBron is triggered by that like you are
So getting there is good enough?😂 Yall sound so dmb
No...but not being good enough to get there should be a strike against you too
Respectful lebron is number two all time nothing wrong with that Michael Jordan is just better
For sure, I stated that Mike was #1 and LeBron was #2 in this video...but people love to discredit LeBron at every turn
But there are some out there who say that LeBron isn't a Top 10 all-time great player. At least you say he's a Top 10 all-time player.
@ I think because some lebron fans put Jordan career down to bring lebron career up not all lebron fans do that
@@marvinj1000wrong . Jordan fans does that. The fact that LeBron is still playing and the haters ridicule everything LeBron does. Jordan isn’t relevant as far as basketball unless LeBron is brought up. So when yall bash LeBron we go back and do research in the 1900’s and trash Jordan as well. Don’t ditch out what you can’t take.
@@TalkinnGrubbinMedia lebron not being top 10 is crazy
My G, Klutch ain’t hire you yet!? All these audition tapes you doin!! Lebum ain’t it fam!!!
If Klutch hired me, I told you, I would be in a mansion with diamonds my dancing like Omarion in the "Touch" video...LeBron is an all-time great..who is your favorite player?
@ Magic, all day everyday!!
You play to win the game.
And he won four times!!! How about the other times Kobe and other greats never even made it to the Finals...they was supposed to be playing to win in those years too right?
@@mackavelimillzhow bout the years he didn’t make it to the finals? And let’s not forget 2011 when him and DWade tried to mock Dirk and lived to regret it. We can’t respect someone who carries himself like an entitled child with passive-aggressive tendencies and still does to this day, that single mother energy is strong in him.
@@danieljett3251 Kobe had a father and still told on another man's infidelities.(Shaq)...was that single mother energy displayed then?? (May I add, most of your favorite players grew up without a father, in all sports)
@ why you keep bringing up Kobe? You have no idea who my favorite players are and none of them act like that. This the problem with society y’all try to find any excuse to allow bad behavior.
@@mackavelimillz your deflecting from 2011 is classic single mom energy.
He not better than Kobe stop it you can’t have a losing finals record and be considered no 2 behind Jordan he made it to the finals so much cause he was with stacked super teams he couldn’t even beat the teams Kobe beat in the finals till he got with wade 😂😂
Kobe wasn't even the best player on them first 3 Chips...we know BIG DIESEL was Finals MVP 3 years in a row!!!
He made it to the Finals cuz he was like that!! And his team wasn't stacked in 07 nor 2018
@@mackavelimillz and Lebron was on a super team and lost atleast Kobe won a 3 peat something Lebron can’t do
@@mackavelimillz he made it to the finals cause he was on a stacked team and he lost in 07 that same team Kobe beat the next year 😂😂 and 2018 he got swept 🧹 why bring up series he lost you don’t get credit for losing
@@mequelmcdaniels4808 Yes Kobe won a 3 peat with Shaquille O'Neal has the Head Honcho on the squad...and you know Shaq was the best player on them squads....how many points Kobe get for that?
He only have three championships. I don't count that COVID championship.
If he didn't have D-Wade or Kyrie. He wouldn't have any to count.
Why you don't count it? If Kobe or Mike won in the bubble you would DEFINITELY count it!
@@mackavelimillz Neither of them didn't play in the bubble. That's all hypothetical and idiotic.
I don’t really understand the logic of these people trying to act like the bubble championship isn’t legit or something.
Were all the playoff teams there? yes
Were all the players there? yes
Were the games structured in the normal format? yes
Were there still 7 game series? yes
Was it still basketball being played? yes
The only difference was it was held in a centralized location with no fans, for medical safety reasons…no advantages for any specific team.
Basically folks just hate the fact that it was Lebron who won.
@@Decboy80they need to discredit lebron so they daddy jordan looks better shit weird
@mackavelimillz Lebron is a great player. But you better put Tim Duncan in that conversation, too. Because he won five championships and almost beat The Heat twice in the finals.
By that logic Wilt Chamberlain is better than Lebron James. Jerry West is better than Lebron James.
Wilt got 2 Chips...Bron got 4
..Jerry West got 1
@@mackavelimillz Be consistent and don't use rings to suit your agenda.
@@rapgodreloaded9259thats exactly what yall do tho 😂😂