The Greatest Underdog Story in Fighting Game History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Today we're doing a match analysis for one of the GREATEST underdog stories in Street Fighter and Fighting Game history: Gandhi vs FSP. This classic Ryu vs Rufus tournament match from Dreamhack 2013 lives on in the memories of many players for its unconventional play and emotional twists and turns. I'm going do to some play-by-play and breakdown of this great SF4 moment, and explain some of the decision making like combo choices and super/ultra punishes that can help you avoid this situation in your own games!
Check out Core A Gaming's video here: • Why Button Mashing Doe...
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This is very much the bell curve meme, of new scrubs just hitting buttons, to intermediate players stressing over execution and theory, to advanced players just hitting buttons.
ABARE
this game was so well made where a person like ghandi could pick up a controller and still give a veteran player trouble by just mashing. It's how they captured the casual crowd
@@BennyHarassiis ghandi really a veteran player? Dude was making a ton of stupid rookie mistakes
"when you begin, a punch is just a punch. As you learn, it becomes so much more. But once you master it, it returns to being but a punch".
Just replace the word "punch" with "button".
@@Dan-si8fp He won, so he wasn't making mistakes.
Nice to see my game is still generating laughs almost 10 years ahead
it's a classic, man!
Are you ghandi the goat?
@@lmao2302 yeah, it's been many years but FGC guys always remind me of the laughs it brought them :)
The man, the myth, the legend
Amazing match dude! I love watching pros, but sometimes it's nice seeing an average joe (well, a pretty skilled average joe honestly) get one in.
For me the takeaway from this match was always that there is no such thing as "deserving a win". FSP clearly has more experience, knowledge, and technical skill, but at the end of the day Ghandi still won the set. FSP failed to adapt, took unnecessary risks, and failed knowledge checks. Ghandi didn't even have to adapt in this match because his normal gameplan worked, even though it was very simple.
The moral is: just because your opponent whiffs jab 5 times in a row doesn't mean they don't deserve your respect. Doubly so if they beat your ass anyway
I question the idea that FSP was in any way a more experienced player with his lack of punishing sweeps, lack of anti-airs, and sloppy combos leaving gaps for mashed DPs. Even accounting for the mindfuck of running into play like this in tournaments, FSP's operating at like silver or low gold rank here
@@SomeAssh0le hey man, it happens. you can be an experienced player but crumble under tournament pressure. I'd probably do a lot worse too if I was losing on stream and I could hear the commentators and crowd laughing at me.
Gandhi was just in a much better place mentally. Yeah, he was getting a bit nervous toward the end of the set, but overall he was much more calm and collected, and he was a good sport throughout. FSP came into this match expecting to win; Gandhi only expected to have a good time. And he did.
bad mentality vs chad mentality
You want to know what the people want? More "Great Moments in Fighting Game History"!
this is a great moment in fighting game history for sure though
Absolutely! I definitely wanna see more of those too. These are great as well though.
@@MrCactuar13 Damn straight! It's really important, too. Especially when it comes to those that want to play but are too intimidated by the genre. This set actually dispels alot of myths.
You want to know what the people want? For fighting game players to not leave the house looking like they haven't showered this month
I feel like most fighting game players have been both FSP and Gandhi at different points in time. I love this set because we start off as the blissfully ignorant noob mashing buttons and later become the serious player getting tilted (and even blown up) by that exact style. It's so relatable
days you are the nail…and some days you are the hammer
huh? I've never had any trouble beating mashers
@@mrossknecongratulations
I feel like the true beauty of this match is that Ganhi didn't "random out" FSP. He played unsafe, threw out big buttons and DPs like they're going out of fashion, but everything he did was to a pattern. He had a game plan, and he stuck to it.
that’s just called flowchart
@@PomadaGamingyou mean like a gameplan?
I love this one, guys just doing some vibing with his mashing and the other guys just in a complete dumpster fire of bad emotions. He was so tilted he was never going win, doesn't matter how good he was. You ain't winnin with that attitude.
I'd never heard the term "mental stack" before, but as a Magic player I love it and will absolutely be using in the future.
I really love matches where someone playing "unconventionally" or "wrong" end up winning. They often end up saying so much about what it means to play "right". Of course, sometimes it's just a total clown fiesta.
The opposite of common sense, what might be bad might work
Mental stack is a great term and strategy.
I find it a good way to edge out games when you're at a similar skill or slightly better than your opponent.
When you know someone is cheesing you out with something your not too knowledgeable about, bring in lots of stuff to stop them from repeating the same thing
I play YuGiOh Master Duel
Surrender at openin draw? They bricked
Surrender after one disruption? I broke your only combo, got it.
Surrender after MY FIRST PLAY? …Maybe don’t copy paste netdecks and READ THE CARDS???
The classic: "You can't predict what I'm going to do if *I* don't know what I'm going to do!"
JM please don’t stop doing these analysis style videos, the slightly technical training mode explanations aswell as the jmcroft style joyful presentation makes for some of the best fgc content honestly!
Yes!
agree, he’s great at this
yeah, this
JM, you’re a great guy. Not everyone would mention that someone also did a video on this same subject. Very honest and unselfish.
The second game showed that FSP knew how to beat gandhi's playstyle and had the skills to do it, but nerves of being on stream and tilt took over in game 3, meanwhile gandhi was just vibin the whole time
Gandhi was not only confident to enter a tournament as a beginner, but beating a player way out of his league while having the greatest time of his life is a nice lesson. Learn from beginner folks, they can teach you more than you can ever think!
I think I’ve watched this video over a few dozen times. Glad you covered it to show it to more people. The best part about this video is the commentary. They can’t believe what they are seeing, even telling FSP how to punish. Pure comedy
this tournament is so memorable for two things. there's the one with daigo closing out the first round of the grand finals by landing 5 umeshoryus on a row against gamerbee. and there's this legend.
Unbothered, Moisturized, Happy, In Ghandi’s Lane, Focused, Flourishing
So glad you made a video about this match. Truly one of the greats
One of my favourite fgc quotes comes from marss: if you pick the most correct most optimal option in ever situation you will lose eventually.
This match really shows that
whoosh fsp is ass. hes like a 1500pp player pmsl. he at this point in time was baaaaad. free
@@annoyeduk ????
i feel it just shows fsp is not very good ;)
like really bad.
fsp is garbage
What's cool about that tourney is that IIRC Gandhi later played Daigo and got destroyed. Shows that being a true master means knowing how to beat bad players as much as it means knowing how to beat good ones.
No afterwards he played a dan player and Gandhi got wiped. FSP just self sabotaged and ultimately exposed himself as mentally weak. He has the skills and theory, but not the experience to adjust.
Basically, he's a diamond player, having a gold rank moment. Maximillian dood already touched on it in his latest video about the latest Sf6 beta.
I think this guy never played online before. Fighting all the Xbox live scrubs taught me a lot on how to deal with these crazy strategies. Just block and punish and anti-air ffs
The Dan player was Ixion, the best Dan in the world and the only Dan to ever make top 8 in a major. Which he did on this very tournament, as he is Swedish and could never afford to travel. For Dan mains, he was a living legend.
@@igormorais4192 no it wasnt him, it was other dan player.
@@junior1388666 Bingo, I've had to adapt to about a million Kens doing the most insane shit.
Yessss, was just saying how much I would love for you to cover this from the Jyobin video: didn't expect to see it so fast and so well-done, though!
One thing I noticed at 15:58: Gandhi does his first ever Focus Attack in the match, and seconds later, FSP does their first ever as well, almost as if he was reminded or compelled to prove they could do it too. Reminds me of the many times I miss a throw or combo and feel compelled to do it again to prove I can do it despite the moment being gone and it no longer being ideal to do so anymore: such a trap for newbies!
Also I gotta point out 19:53: Gandhi spends the whole match never throwing and then suddenly does so for the first time, and you can literally see the mental toll this unprecedented evolution of mix-up potential had on FSP!
The commentary made it legendary.
Legend has it Gandhi taught jyobin all his tricks
Gandhi actually had better, intentional Anti-Airs. That's an insane thing to think about.
All of your historical videos are some of your best, and I'm always tuning in when you post them!
Gandhi's mind isn't clouded with actually knowing how to play lmao
JM, your personality and content bring a lot of joy in to my life. I love the way you embrace classic FGC moments and culture and bring your own positive spin to so many iconic games and events.
Thank you for listening to us!
I love how you go into training to show how the scenarios could have went, that is very unique and that's why I loved watching this video
Every time you say "FSP", I keep hearing "FSB" and I'm like, "Wait... The man who just crashed the crypto market is a Rufus main with no footsies? That explains a lot."
Love that you covered this match and I, like a lot of people, thought perhaps this is what your last video was about prior to clicking on it. So happy to see you covered this. More epic SF match analysis please! Some suggestions: Snake Eyez vs Xian and Valle vs. Bonchan.
In game 3 when you said he's getting tilted and reverting to his old gameplan, it's actually the opposite. He was justified in that he won game 2 and reset back to his original plan by subconsciously thinking something like "okay, I proved I am superior, so I wasn't wrong before!" It's common in people learning a skill and young learners; e.g. kids will be good during a basketball practice, get full of nerves on gameday, you take a timeout, fix their flaws, get two buckets or something and then they're back to before the huddle. NOW they're tilted. "I was doing so good before, what's going on?"
Alex Valle vs Bonchan and Gamerbee vs Justin Wong were my two favorite moments in SF4. Especially since Wong had trashed Adon as useless in the leadup to SSF4 getting released due to low combo potential.
Both of those were great but don't forget Snake Eyez vs. Xian! Another epic SF4 moment!
Mago vs mike ross In Australia is my go to when I need a pick me up...a lot of sf4 legendary moments
I definitely lost to a guy on stream, asked for a casual runback and won 15 in a row. It was a hard lesson in stop trying to play super high level when it's not called for/I can't anyway
as someone that isn't massively top-tier competitive I genuinely don't understand the concept of just "not playing competitive"
like, am I supposed to intentionally drop a combo or just not block? I really don't understand
@@itloaf It's less of not playing competitive and more of playing to the level that's necessary. In my match I was trying to play around option selects/bait out a multitude of options, in reality there was only one option (superdash) I really had to pay attention to.
@@itloaf It's less that you shouldn't "play competitively" and more that you shouldn't make accommodations for players who aren't meeting you halfway. No need to make room for some grandiose plan of baiting out things that'll never happen if you can just whiff punish them to death as they mash buttons.
Ahh, I've been looking forward to this video, a review of the classic
Thank you JM for this! Seeing that 5 jab whiff still never gets old
For further context, bear in mind that FSP could probably HEAR everything the commentators said, which likely didn't help him keep his cool. He's not wearing a headset (fair, I usually don't either) and if you look at the background, the commentators are only about 15 feet away from him. Even over other background noise, I'd wager FSP could actually hear them talking about him.
But even with that factored in, FSP still did make bad decisions in this set despite being the "better" player on paper. One of the most important skills to develop early on when playing FGs is how to adjust to a "safer" style in tense matchups when the opponent is doing lots of "wild" stuff that's not in textbook play. You have to completely put aside prideful thoughts of "I'm playing the game the way it SHOULD be played" and accept the reality in front of you, then adjust your strategy/tactics to account for that.
And you HAVE to have a healthy sense of humor about this stuff. We all have struggles in life outside of the game, serious struggles in many cases. But you MUST make the strongest effort possible not to bring that stuff into the game with you, or you will lose before you even sit down to play. These games, no matter how competitive, cannot and SHOULD NOT be a referendum on your worth as a human being. Do not let them have that power over you. Win or lose, you MUST keep your sense of fun when you play them.
What an awesome comment
Just to think I mentioned him in your Jyobin video, now you did this. You're doing Lord Harambe's work and I thank you for that.
OMGGGGG MY BOY DID IT! ANOTHER FIGHTING GAME HISTORY LESSON FROM THE ONE AND ONLY JMCROFTS!
Thank you so much for covering this. I love your analysis of matches, and this one is such a classic.
One thing that happens in Tekken is you rank up too fast. You start fighting stronger players who have parsed out all the "newb" strats out of their play, but you yourself haven't experienced why they did so. So you encounter these strategies for the first time without having never developed the punishes that justify why nobody uses those moves/strats at the high levels. This idea of being very "fundamental" comes only as a process of experiencing all of what doesn't work.
that happened to me in guilty gear strive, I'm the noob that did stupid shit and somehow won. there's something about frame buffering combined with bad strategies that lead to getting 0 and 2 against a guy with literally one win on record
the best part was the commentary guy breaking down laughing.
Thank you for preserving the legacy of this match. All future generations of fighting game players must know
I wonder how these two are doing these days, I hope they're doing well
Ultrachen did an extreme in-depth analysis on Gandhi vs FSP
Good shit. Last few videos have been killing it
8:17
Man fell for the oldest fighting game sequence - jumping kick into sweep
These analysis videos have always been my favorite (That and the fgc game shows.) The way you explain everything is so easy to understand and the matches are always exciting!
This was so hype live, I remember the chat absolutely exploding. Loved seeing this.
You know this is some great advice in general now that I think of it I do lose more when I don't change my strategy I guess I gotta be more like water in a match and go with the flow while remembering my strategy.... thank you Mr jmcroft you have helped me better my game
Always love the analytical content JM - your commentary and assessment is great listening and I always get swept up in your hype with the high moments. Look forward to more down the line!
I really love SF4 for thing like this. Everyone had a very personal style to play each character. And you find diamonds like this moment xD
Amazing, I love these analysis videos. I'm so glad to see a breakdown of this legendary match. Keep it up with this kind of content, it's very interesting and entertaining as hell at the same time!
Oh boy, I fucking love that match. let's go
SonicFox vs. GO1 saga in DBFZ, maybe? SonicFox taking Perfect Legend 13-0 in a FT10? I don't think you did a video on that Xrd popoff where there was still one round left, but that's probably well-worn territory. Skullgirls Liam vs. Elda Taluda at Frosty Faustings 2018?
Missed these videos. Glad to see the content again.
I love this match so much. It's basically a fighting game fable. Thanks for going over it jm
ngl this is the first time ive hear the BIONIC ARM comback being mentioned and it is one of my favorite moments in gaming
Great breakdown of this (mental) breakdown
I LOVED THIS! Great analysis, thank you so much for your expert eye. I REALLY enjoy when you pause it and give us context and explain what their options are and what they might be thinking, that stuff helps my ability to do better in fighting games, thanks!!!!!!!!!!
Great video and great example of finding wisdom in older matches.
That's great! I really like your match analysis videos!
I 100% agree with the thing about feeling you should’ve beat someone who’s pretty bad, but the thing that I loose to the worst is unknown stuff. If someone is doing the most dumbass things you don’t expect that.
More classic moments! Loving this blast of nostalgia!
3:53 Smooth editing!
We love the analysis videos!!
James Chen and Ultra David actually went into detail about this match. Video was taken out of YT
Awesome vid, can't wait for more breakdowns!
I like these videos, I wish you kept up with the greatest iconic matches series, maybe one that would be awesome could be Momochi vs Daigo (the combo one) or even branch out to other games (Reyanald’s insane KOF13 grand finals, Sonic vs Perfect Legend) and make a sweet thing with so much sauce as it was pre covid
Why is this match famous? The rapid jab whiffing only happened in one situation. There have probably been a lot of matches like this.
Awesome AWESOME video. Great mental tool to view things this way.
My first committed fighter was DragonBall, the number of times I got mad because "all he does is super dash!" Until I asked "Why can't I punish him then?" is embarrassing.
PS: Glad to have you back!!
Speaking of the phenomenon of getting thrown off your game by someone else playing "badly" and losing as a result, that reminds me of one night, me and 2 friends were playing FighterZ, I think pretty close to when Bardock released? I consider myself like... a fairly casual fan of fighting games, I enjoy playing them, but I can't get reliable matches with people super often, internet is not entirely consistent all of the time, but I like it, it's fun. One of the others in our little triangle, goes quite a bit harder on 'em, plays a lot more often, watches the videos, has a good sense of how to play well and punish common things people do that are not safe, etc. etc. Then the last guy... nothing. I think it might've been his first time with FighterZ, at all, ever, and he's not deep into fighting games broadly. So that's all the setup...
What actually happened, when we get going and we've all rotated in and out a few times, a pattern emerged. When I go up against the first guy, who knows what they're doing, I get my *ass* kicked, I feel like I can't do *jack* that they aren't ready for, and most of the time, I'm not able to adapt around it long enough. When I go up against the guy who *doesn't* know what he's doing, I might as well be a stone wall, and I just get to style on him, practically. But when it's *them* up against each other, the funny thing that's probably obvious from the setup happened. See, I had enough foundational knowledge to understand certain things you do and don't want to do, but only enough a better player could take advantage of my predictable behavior. They go up against the guy who knows nothing? Destroyed, every single time. Cuz he would just keep doing shit that no one in their right mind would ordinarily do and *not* doing things it would've made sense to do, *barely* responding to conditioning if at all, and so was just, impenetrable, to the obviously best player out of the three of us.
So even though we were in three clearly different linear skill levels, we ended up in a Rock Paper Scissors triangle with each other. It was such a surreal but very informative experience.
And to kinda speculate on why I had no trouble with the guy just throwing shit out, is, since I was going in with a decent grasp of the game but relatively few expectations from like, "the meta", or whatever, I was free to be more immediately reactive and more receptive to stitching a gameplan together on the fly based on what my opponent did. And that made it much easier for me to see all the bad plays he was going for and respond accordingly. But then someone with more game knowledge is ready for a lot of what comes to mind out of those on-the-fly decisions, *is* able to condition me, and *is* able to punish me accordingly.
Apparently it's a thing. I heard somewhere that they're called "proactive, reactive, and preemptive" playstyles and that they really do follow a rock-paper-scissors sort of pattern.
The masher/maniac who plays high-risk/high-reward is the "proactive" player, the intermediate player that plays according to how their opponent plays is the "reactive" player, and the experienced player who sets up counters to moves that haven't even been thrown out yet is the "preemptive" player.
It would've been so hilarious if the winner said "BRING ME DAIGO!!!" like Thor said bring me thanos!
22:25 Nope. If I lose, I deserved to lose. I don't cheapen my opponents' wins by bitching.
Watching the original match video before watching this analysis is so funny because you get to hear the paid commentators not know what to say and just giggling at Gandhi's tactics, then JMCrofts comes in with the technical breakdown. Great stuff.
I love your analysis vids, they have really upped my understanding of fighting game mechanics.
Love these breakdown videos!
I just started playing Tekken again a little over a year ago. I haven't played SF in almost a decade honestly. Even still, your advice opened my eyes to allot of mistakes I made when playing ranked matches. Like tryna apply the most optimal training combos in an online match. I almost always drop the biggest combos at the worst time. I don't think I'll ever get my emotions in check. Tekken 7 is stressful.
FSP used to go to my locals, i played against him a shit load before someone pointed it out, he's never lived this down.
Keep the analysis vids goin!
Croft you seem like such a cool guy and I love your video concepts
You said there were no in depth analysis on this match, but ultradavid did. I don't blame you for not knowing however since it's a video from 8 years ago.
Another wild moment was Poongko double perfecting Tokido
He was also one of the first Akuma players in Tekken who really showed us why he had no business in the game
Should have switched to Dhalsim and simply destroyed the Ryu with buttons. For an intermediate player, Rufus can get blow up with DP spam if not played optimally. When on tilt you make dumb choices (as we all know).
There's no doubt this match go down in history as the moment of hope for all of us normies who think we can't win if we don't have the technical skills or the combos. Gandhi I think represents the chad of casual players out there. In SF6, I believe this will be even more prevalent as a handful of Modern players will go toe-to-toe with the veterans out there through perfecting gamesense alone, and I think it's a great prospect ^^
The only "right" way to play a fighting game is the way that's working. A win is a win no matter how you get there.
This was a really great analysis video!
Was hoping you were doing this one since last vid! Such a fun match
It makes me sad to see only 3500 likes with almost 70k views, because FGC history and culture are my Favorite topics for you to explore. If not fighting game trivia, please do more of this
This match is iconic
More people need to watch Core-A
The problem with fighting games are how much of it is skills, and how much of it is psychological (like playing mind games with the actual human behind the character)....
your looking at one of the reasons why we got the crush counter system(because unfortunately they will never get rid of shortcuts). i remember when sf5 came out people still tried to mash. i would just end the round in 3 combos. "cross cut dp", no, its him mashing. thats all that is. a "cross cut" dp is you just mashing and the auto correct saving you.
a cross cut is not that. lmao. ghandi is mashing. sf5 is for scrubs.
@@annoyeduk my dude. dont even play yourself cause all this short cut bullshit started in sf4. i remember an old video that showed all the ridiculous inputs that resulted in a dragon punch. you can mash the down corners and hit punch, auto correct will save you.
its fucked when i take a bunch of modern sf players back to super turbo and none of them know how to dragon punch.
Keep finding all the random players in all fighting games I love it
waddup jm awesome hand wholesome story telling always
Love the breakdown videos. Cheers
Gandhi just doing psychic DP
Ultra David went into this back in the day and I think pointed out that lot of these hits were from fsp crouch teching as you would against a normal player, but Gandhi isn't playing by conventions
Breakdown Bonchan vs Deimon at CEO sagat v guile it’s probably the best match I’ve ever seen
I saw it live. It was mesmerizing. Glorious.
I will never forget watching this moment, oh man it was so much fun
This is in my opinion one of the greatest fighting game matches of all time, no one "deserves to win" you have to actually adapt and play in a way that fits your opponent.
Ghandi wasnt fully button mashing since you can tell he was playing with the basics, one jab when short range, he throws fireballs from a distance safely....he isnt fully playing by button mashing. He doesnt play the same way pros play and doesnt use combos but he does play with his own skill level and he even wins and has a good time.
Fighting games are so short so the stakes are high for upsets, he mentally beat FSP and ended up winning the whole thing.