22 Centerfires for Deer Hunting
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Who is Ron Spomer
For 44 years I’ve had the good fortune to photograph and write about my passion - the outdoor life. Wild creatures and wild places have always stirred me - from the first flushing pheasant that frightened me out of my socks in grandpa’s cornfield to the last whitetail that dismissed me with a wag of its tail. In my attempts to connect with this natural wonder, to become an integral part of our ecosystem and capture a bit of its mystery, I’ve photographed, hiked, hunted, birded, and fished across much of this planet. I've seen the beauty that everyone should see, survived adventures that everyone should experience. I may not have climbed the highest mountains, canoed the wildest rivers, caught the largest fish or shot the biggest bucks, but I’ve tried. Perhaps you have, too. And that’s the essential thing. Being out there, an active participant in our outdoor world.
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely.
Produced by: @red11media
Disclaimer
All loading, handloading, gunsmithing, shooting and associated activities and demonstrations depicted in our videos are conducted by trained, certified, professional gun handlers, instructors, and shooters for instructional and entertainment purposes only with emphasis on safety and responsible gun handling. Always check at least 3 industry handloading manuals for handloading data, 2 or 3 online ballistic calculators for ballistic data. Do not modify any cartridge or firearm beyond what the manufacturer recommends. Do not attempt to duplicate, mimic, or replicate anything you see in our videos. Firearms, ammunition, and constituent parts can be extremely dangerous if not used safely. - กีฬา
Here in EIRE In the 60ies all we had was a 22 and later a 22 magnum
We fed our family with both these guns ,rabbit to red deer
Get close and put the bullet in the right place and. 22 rimfires will do more than most people think they can.
So have i..in in pennsylvania
Harvesting whitetails with a 55 grain soft point 223 round is so common in Oklahoma, not many even argue about it anymore.
Next to Townsend Whelen, Ron Spomer has got to be my favorite outdoor writer.
I can't speak for Whelen, but Ron Spomer is flattered, humbled, and thanks you.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors You're quite welcome.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors I heard you mention the hydrostatic shock/pressure waves in the video. I replied to you in a previous video about this and I found some visual content to explain this theory that they mentioned in the old game books. When bullets reach supersonic speeds, and I think this is dependent on the mach speeds, mach1 being only 1120fps? mach 2 being 2250fps? and so on and so forth. th-cam.com/video/BPwdlEgLn5Q/w-d-xo.html
Agreed hands down
@@RonSpomerOutdoors If you were any more humble you'd have a shaved head and be in a monastery reading Confucius
Heimo Korth has used an old Remington 788 in 22-250 in Alaska for over 40 some years and has killed more Caribou and Moose with it than most folks will ever see !
Another great video as always.We use 22-250 Rem and 220 Swift for a long long time and many years for hunting Fallow deer for venison recovery and culling in New Zealand and we still use both calibers.All we do is wait till the deer turns the head and aim for inner ear of the deer and that is it.According to our law in NZ for venison to be ""Fit for human consumption"" the deer has to be head or neck shooted so all the internal organs and glands are intact and can be inspected and to fetch the high price otherwise the venison will be used for "Pet Food" and fetches only one third of the price.We use 55g projectile for reloading.We have hundreds of videos on youtube to show the use of 22 Centerfires for hunts.With best regards all the way from New Zealand,, Tony.
Winchester 243. i use, no 22 centerfires.
If one must shoot a deer in the neck I'd want something explosive like a 22-250. So I get it.
We can't sell game meat in the U.S..
@@Kayceesoutdoorliving no neck shots
@@williamhall7349 according to the op he is required to take neck shots.
If anyone is really doubting small caliber hunting, just dig into what the airgun community has done with .22 caliber slugs(pointed bullets) in their high end airguns. Everything from coyotes to pretty good sized pigs and hogs are taken with 50ish grain slugs at often subsonic velocities. Shot placement is always -key.
doubting? doesn't matter what your opinion is when states outlaw .22 calibre for hunting. not point in debating if you can't use.
@@todsimpkins8908 Oh for sure. I am not debating states outlawing small calibers for hunting larger game. I was just making the point that they *can* be highly effective if the shooter does his/her part.
It's on record a young kid after small critters with his .22 killed a tiger with one shot with it.
That's not a recommendation. The parents had mixed reactions about achievement and risk.
@@todsimpkins8908 Maybe not for you. If people find it entertaining to theorize about their hobby it's a free country. Sort of like if you wanna make a snarky comment on the net you can do so.
Let's not overlook skill. Technically, every caliber is far more capable than most people. But unless people put in the time to properly know their rifle, it doesn't mean anything. That's why I won't recommend them as a medium or large game caliber.
I have been hunting deer with a single shot 223 for 10 years, my great grandfathers rifle. All 55 grain soft point. Never wounded one. However they do usually run a little. I will note if you can't make clean shot, don't shoot, regardless of the caliber used. If you hunt unethically caliber is impertinent.
Which state? Are you able to get large bucks with it, or should it be a doe which "identifies as a buck"? 😁
@@MK9-VGI too many people think energy kills animals, that a small frangible bullet dumps it's energy into the animal, killing it. If a smaller cartridges bullet hits with 1500 ft lbs of energy and the bullet blows up inside, halfway through, that means it applied 1500 ft lbs to the leading 1/2 of the animal only. If you shoot that same animal with a 375 magnum, that maybe doesn't expand, the bullet still impacts with near 4000 ft lbs of energy, but it continues to apply that near 4000 ft lbs of energy, all the way through the animal. The energy doesn't kill the animal, the resultant tissue damage from a properly expanding bullet does.
@@MK9-VGI Trey, bullet mushrooming doesn't begin with time and less energy. Think of it like standing a bullet on its base and hitting it with a hammer. Would a light blow (less velocity and energy) or heavy blow (more velocity, energy) flatten it more? Bullet expansion begins immediately. Yes, travels in inch to three before fully expanded (depending on materials and construction) but never increases expansion as speed and energy decline. You can see this in thousands of ballistic gelatin penetration tests.
@@PaulVerhoeven2 I am in Southern Missouri. I haven’t killed any monster bucks but a couple of nice 8 points.
@@RonSpomerOutdoors Let me tell you this Ron: For years I test fired rifles in a bench vise through a heavy 12" cardboard tube stuffed with old rags to quiet it down. Sometimes I just used tightly tied newspaper bundles stacked in front of the tube (About 4 feet from the muzzle) and sometimes put pine boards in front of the newspapers. It was an real eye opener. Most people would be amazed how far in a soft point bullet goes with barely blunting the tip. 10" to 12" with high velocity rounds. It makes you wonder what is going on when that bullet hits a bone? I shot a ground hog one day that foolishly wandered out on the 100 yard line at the rifle range and stood up. I had an old iron sight gun , a 6.5x55 with 160 grain soft point bullets and hit it dead center. It literally tore it in half with a about a 1" piece of skin holding it together. Hardly a varmit bullet. Gun companies spent millions developing bullets to kill deer in the 50's and 60's. Now they want to force hunters to buy their "New, improved" bullets that are barely up to the job. Once you go so fast you can no longer use cup and core bullets in that rifle, you are looking for trouble at shorter ranges. When the Warren Commission was doing testing at the Aberdeen Proving Grounds(Of which I am a graduate) they eventually went to live goats because gel blocks and cadavers could not reenact the bullet results close enough. Where are the bones in the gel blocks?
I have used a .223 on a good number of deer and hogs. I think one reason they work well is we know shot placement is critical and we aim small.
Hell I’ve killed a deer with a 22 mag you hit it in the noggin with a 22 it’s going down, I didn’t eat it cuz there was a massive hole in the side of it and was attacked by a coyote but it was still walking fine when that 22 mag hit the side of his head it was lights out
Excellent breakdown. Bullet selection is key. Understanding energy delivery at range is equally important. My 62gr. HP .223 bullets punch through 1/4" diamond plate steel at 300yds consistently, that doesn't mean it's a good deer cartridge. That's where Paul Harrell's "meat test" would be handy. ;-)
I'll give anyone a thumbs up just for mentioning Paul Harrell's name.
A 62 g JHP or soft point does better than mil spec 855 for hunting. On small-medium deer I’ve had no issues with a 223 with proper shot placement. Personally I like the 65-72 grain(within 200 yards)
Why don't you shoot a Deer with the .223 and see what quit a few of us already know?
Stop reading books or watching videos about Hunting and go Hunting.
You don't need Paul Harrell's meat test.
The meat test is called Hunting a Deer.
You don't have to know energy tables to Hunt. Just Superimpose the Rifle sights on the deer of your choice. Then press the button.
Then go Process your Deer.
It's just a Deer! Not Godzilla.
A 55 gr. or heavier Barnes TSX in a .223/5.56mm or faster is deadly no just about anything within 100 yds. It will put a quarter-size hole thru about 3 feet of animal tissue.
@@UncleTerry Paul Harrell is just doing it for fun. He’s a dental tech in real life.
22-250 was my dad's favorite deer/antelope rifle for years.
What bullet was he using? I have never been happy with the results I have had with the 22-250 on either.
Soft points. However I'm not sure the specific brand, exact bullet construction, weight, or how soft/hard the lead was. It was in the 70's and I believe he was hand loading.
One cartridge that I wish you had included in this video is the 22 Savage High Power. Introduced in 1912 , it shot a 70 gr bullet designed for deer at just about 2800 fps. Decades ahead of it's time for sure, in fact it took us about a century to come back to the long heavy bullet idea for larger than varmint game with 22 centerfires. When it came out it was one of,, if not the fastest factory cartridges on the market
My uncle put truckloads of pronghorn and white tail in the freezer with his old Savage 99, even after his horse stepped on the stock and broke it. He just glued and copper wired it back together. His grandson is still using that old rifle these days
You took the words from my mouth. Well done. I own my grandfather's saddle rifle in 22 Savage.
So ...223....
@@nateburns5933 When 223 came out in the 60's it was with the same slow twist as all other 22 centerfires- 1in 14" , some 1in12". It wasn't until the early 21 century that they started offering the fast twist 1in7, 1in9. The M16 in 5.56 was also 1in 14". Not sure when the military switched but certainly before the civilian market. The faster rate and heavier bullets came to this cartridge around a century after the 22 savage Hi Power was introduced.
Start a fight? Hell yeah! I've bagged more deer with a .22-250, 55gr SP (out to 300 yards) than I can count.
My .25-06 blows through them at anything under 200 yards, though most times they fold within 25yds.
My .243 Win (100gr) is right there with the .22-250, but I tend to do high shoulder holds with it.
My first hunt was with hubby in Junction, TX using a .223 with 55grain Barnes Tipped Triple Shock ammo. Took a very nice Blackbuck Antelope at 80 yards with one shot. Animal dropped straight down and never got up again. Even our host was amazed at my shot placement as well as the effect that ammo has on the antelope.
Hi Ron, good job on a tough controversial topic. The dynamic action you seek to understand on rear lung collapsed at shot is when the solarplexus is overwhelmed. This nerve bundle is part of the central nervous system and is located above the heart and lung area. When sufficient energy is released in the solar plexus the electrical signals cause the brain to go into shock and disables the animal immediately.
Solar plexus. That's the phrase I was trying to recall. Must do some research on that. Thanks Robert.
Never apologize for thanking the ppl that allow you to keep doing what you love Ron! Its because of them, that I get to continue watching your great informative videos! So you wont hear me complain. Cheers!
Thanks for understanding, Shea. And thanks to all our Patreon members for helping keep us moving.
Shot placement! I have thousands of shots fired with a ruger model 77 in .220 swift . 55 to 60 grain bullets! Rarely a second shot on any game in Texas, New Mexico, and Oklahoma! Handloads are the only way to go! Brass is the hardest part to get! Sadly rifles chambered for it are getting hard to find! The Ballistics twin the .22-250 has greatly become the go to cartridge ! And more widely used and known! Love them both but the older swift is my all time favorite! With the AR crowd. 223 win short mag. And the .224 valkirey have blown up. 😳 I ' ll take my swift! My average shot in TEXAS WAS 350 yards! Again choose your shots and shot placement! Bless you all and stay safe! Keep hunting and teaching the future generations!
Great video Ron! My hunting buddy used a .22-250 as his first deer rifle on PA whitetail. Doug put down a lot of mature bucks with it over the years. He bought a 7mm Rem mag A-bolt when he got older. Sure is a pretty rifle. It kicks about like my .270. Now that he's 70, he has gone back to the .22-250. Can't say as I blame him!
Thanks Rev.! Keep up the good work.
One of my best friends grew up shooting whitetails at a young age with .243
When he was about 30 years old he bought a gorgeous Remington 700 BDL chambered in 30-06.
He hunted with that rifle for about five years, retired it, and went back to .243
Confidence, comfort, and familiarity will outperform every time
This man outstanding. He’s like the old school father I never had. His passion and honesty is great, also he’s precious!
Great episode Ron! My Uncle Dick Martin was a senior wildlife biologist w/the Dept of Interior. He was a hunter/fisherman/trapper extraordinaire and a wildlife author.
In the late '50s, he had his Model 70 in
.22 Hornet rechambered for .222 Rem.
With this rifle, he hunted everything from fox to Whitetail, and even Muledeer.
After becoming an adult, I quizzed him on the efficacy of taking large game with a .222 Rem. I smugly asked him how many deer he had wounded and lost. His reply? "I don't lose deer. I take careful shots only, and they go right down".
When he eventually stopped hunting due to his old age, he had graduated through the .223, .220 Swift, and finished with the .22-250.
I would like to learn more. These three that you mention are all close in size (& I assume bullet weight). Dies the 22-250 have a larger powder charge?
@@savage22bolt32the .220 swift has a larger powder charge than the .22-250, but the .22-250 has almost the same capability as the swift with more efficiency. The .22-250 hits a performance sweet-spot for most .22 centerfire shooters.
@@leifhoklin2681 thank you for the info.
Wyoming allows 22 centerfires for deer, pronghorn, lions, and wolves as long as the bullet is at least 60 grains and OAL is at least 2”.
Alaska allows caribou and moose hunting with .223/5.56
Oregon requires a minimum .24 caliber cartridge for elk hunting, and a minimum .22 caliber for deer (of course they have to be centerfire)
I think you said it just about perfect. Shooting with a good aim is a big part of hunting. Being patient enough to get the best shot may be more important. I think people buy bigger and bigger guns to cover the fact they know less about hunting and having the patience to take the time for the best shot.
I keep it really simple. I hunt with a typical AR15 with a Chrome lined 20 inch barrel. I shoot a Hornady 62 grain soft point over my favorite powder at 3100 FPS. I keep shots on deer under 175 yards. I stretch it to 300 for coyotes. Deer may be hard to hunt but they sure as heck aren't bullet proof.
I wouldn't be scared to do what youre doing at all
For certain, it’s where you put it. Shot placement is ALWAYS NUMBER ONE!!!☝️
I live in Oregon. I've hunted 47 years. For me its a plan B choice. Wounded animal running straight away. Always use a premium bullet in a caliber that that will travel full length on the animal your hunting. Premium bullets are cheap when factoring in hunt cost and respect for the animals. Plan A is best case scenario. Murphy's law is always waiting. Thanks Ron.
I handload 22-250 with 75 swift bullet to 77 barnes lrx i hate when people choose bullets that blow up. I use the 22-250 for deer size game out to 150 yards
@Will Smith I have many rifles 7mm08 308 300 winmag 303 6.5 grendel 6.5 creed 22-250 with 77 barnes lrx is drt for deer size game
Thanks for all you explained on all of the 22 center fire . I have a 22 250 and I am glad you went into detail about it and others . Keep up with the good work always looking forward for your next video.
I love my 222 Remington in my 1950’s Sako, I just love it. Many deer in Texas have fallen to it, my 22 Hornet also works great if you learn the cartridge , in the 1960’s the Savage 340 was available in 222, 30-30 and the Hornet all affordable and available everywhere back in the 60’s
I was station in Alaska:
I made friends with the Alaskan Inuit Indians from the Northern part of Canada.
They constantly shoot game with a 22-250. i wondered constantly about that....but, it makes sense to a point.
They recommended it to saving the meat they harvested
When I was young, Late 1950's early 1960's I hunted Texas white tails. First rifle was a borrowed 22K Hornet, killed Turkey and White tails. Next was my Aunt's Sako 222 the most deadly accurate rifle I've used. Those 50 gr soft points killed everything I pulled the trigger on. I loaded a 63 gr Sierra soft point in my Rem 788 22/250 and It worked every time. Years ago ,I sent a Rem 700 ADL in 223 to Arnold Arms in Washington State. They accurized the rifle and It will shoot tighter than I can hold it. The 55 gr Rem soft point seems to kill all the local Texas game animals. I will admit there are many better white tail rounds. I just used what was available or what I had ammo for. Funny side note, I had a 1891 7.65 Argentine Mauser but I couldn't afford the Norma ammo to shoot it. Excellent segment!
@Fran Gagne My Dad bought mine at Montgomery Wards for $21.95. Dad Knew a local gunsmith who bent the bolt and drilled and tapped the receiver. He mounted a Old Tasco 4X scope. To this day I wish I had kept that rifle. Thanks for sharing the memory!
22-250 is the bottom end in my opinion. It's an awesome deer round. That said it wastes a lot of meat because the velocity. Works fantastic with a 60 grain partition though.
Shot placement shoot behind shoulder in ribs no meat there
It sounds like the cartridge you're yearning for is the .22 Creedmoor. 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy at 500 yards! (75 grain hornady). Same concept as 224 Valk but based off the Creedmoor case. Therefore getting a much higher starting velocity with high BC bullets
I built one I was a 22-250 fan boy and absolutely love it
@@travisoverdorf9386 wish there was more support for it!
@@SR-wz2iv I think hornady started making brass for it.
I am 70 .... I came from deer-hunting ancestry.... many many many deer taken ..... 22 LR, 22 magnum, 22 hornet...... these were the preferred cartridges..... I went to 222 when I was 18 or 19 years old .....yup .... I would say my alltime best deer-stopper was an old model 30S chambered in 25Remington(NOT 25-20)...... 25 remington was the 30REM necked down to 25 ..... the 30REM necked down to 224 is basically what 222 was..... of course 243 is a 244..... old men and old cartridges hunted alot..... people hunted all over the world way before all this "new technology" ..... yup.... and I still shoot a model 99 chambered 250-3000 .... of course neck 250-3000 down and you have 22-250 ..... not much is really new
Thanks for educating Ron, I learned a lot. Trying to understand more about ballistic coefficients.
Liked and shared. Let's get this excellent "22 Video" out to the masses!
☺
22-250 with 55 grain SP's is my go to gun for whitetail. Our shots are usually 100 yds or less
My uncle has shoulder problems and he uses a 16" AR15 556 1-7 twist and shoots 64gr soft points and has killed 12 plus deer 🦌. Shot placement is key and less than 200 yards.
I totally agree with your uncle. Placement is the key.
I live in the arctic, we don't have a Lot of different deer type animals, but we have reindeer.
I've always used 223/5.56 for reindeer, even for musk ox - I just place the shot right behind the ears where the skull is very thin, and it drops dead on the spot.
You fellows have not been reading the comments from the army of fools boasting about their use of varmint bullets for big game have you? Their stupidity is the best argument against .22 anything for big game. The practice needs to be banned.
This guy is brilliant. His enthusiasm is super. 🏆❤️
This is a great topic, I've wondered about this subject ever since I got my .224 Valkyrie
I love the 243, great deer gun for me, I'm 62 and have never been disappointed in picking her up to go to the woods. Love your ammo videos and zeroing rifles in.
I have had a still do have a lot of big bore rifles. 35whelen, 300 win mag, 375H&H and my 45-70. Lived in Alaska close to 20 years. Now I’m back in Maine safe queens now and My go to hunting rifles are either my 243 or my ar15 with 70 grain Barnes Vor-tx 5.56. Also my 72 year old shoulder likes them better.
Thanks Ron. Appreciate the perspective & personal experience.
I have taken all of my children hunting deer. The first group I bought a 44 magnum rifle and handloaded different loads as the mastered the recoil & trigger until they were proficient with it. But the last few I decided to use the ar-15 in 223. We harvested a few. 69 SMK, 62 Barnes-X, even 55gr. Speer Gold Dot. But IMO the best was the 60gr Nosler Partition. But I got a Ruger American Compact 243 last year for the youngest. He is doing great out to 200 at the range. Looking forward to season this year.
One of the highest production most informative and entertaining hunting/shooting channels around.
In Europe a great caliber called 5,6x57 was really excellent for Chamois and deer in mountain hunting. Shooting a 74 gr bullet @ 3400 ft sec and created in 1964! ... Some calibers are really too early for people to understand them....
Great breakdown on the 22 center fires. IMO a well constructed bullet is what it’s all about. I’ve never cared for the 223, not enough umpf, but the 22-250 is a whole other story.
I love your channel. You mentioned Wyoming not allowing 22 caliber bullets. Several years ago that changed. However, there are very specific criteria and only for certain big game animals. As you said, check the regulations.
That said I've used my AR in 223 on antelope for several years with excellent success because that's the rifle I shoot the best. I don't shoot at extreme distances (probably 200 yards) and I can't say that the 30.06 I used previously did a better job.
Always such a pleasure to watch your videos. Thank you.
I didn't think anyone could match or better Paul Harrell knowledge when it came to fire arms. You do great work 👍
I've always been a 30-06 fan. Still am. Picked up an ar 15 a few years ago. It being cheaper to shoot and less recoil I began to fall in love with it. I can move the stock with a push of a button and the wife and kids can shoot it. For years it wasn't legal in Kentucky to hunt deer with 223 but with the huge steps that have been made in bullets they changed that. I've been impressed this far with the caliber. But have been looking very hard at the 6.5 grendel. My remington 710 30-06 loved Winchester xp3, I believe was the abbreviation, in 180 grain. Drove tacks at 200 yards. But I shot a deer once at 60 yards no expansion at all. Pencil hole both sides. I had taken many 80 and out with holes in the ribs nearly big enough for your fist. Shot a doe at 300 once the nearly removed the opposite shoulder. After a little research I learned that it was a common thing people were seeing in that bullet. That's when I learned the bullet makes all the difference in the world.
22-250AI loaded with 69gr. SBTH is my go to in North Central Tx. I’ve taken several deer and countless hogs with it and it performs unbelievably well for what I do.
I inherited my grandfathers 22-250 Remington 700 I’ve shoot plenty of deer and hogs with a 45 grain Winchester hollowpoints and killed them. I’ve switched to Hornady 50 grain amax now still works took a deer with it this year it only ran 49 yards. I normally hunt with a 7 mag but I pull out dada’s ole rifle to honor him every once and a while !
really like listening to RON!!
The first gun I hunted deer with in the mountains of PA was a savage mod 24 over under. 222 Rem on top 20 ga on the bottom in the early 70s. Took numerous deer with that little 222 Rem with no issues, don’t recommend it (bullet placement is key) other calibers out there are more suitable but it can certainly be done. That is the coolest little gun I’ve owned and I’ve owned a ton over the years.
Great video. Good info. Hunting with a .22 center-fire can be done. My uncle has worked with local game wardens to cull deer. He used a .223 with soft points. Was shooting from a tripod. Was told to take head shots at less than 100 yards primarily. Otherwise shoot high lung shots near spine. Also he was using a suppressor.
There's a lot of non fatal bits on the head and neck that knock down & get up those who follow that creed should be aware of (means making sure they stay down, & can happen with any calibre, just the light ones more often). Using the .222 for years by preference got 100s of med size animals. Knowing their limitations is needed, and for the tougher animals it was important to get, the .308 came out of the cupboard.
I been shooting Rem 788 22-250 on deer in Texas all my life (60 Yrs) and have never lost or had a deer run after it was hit!
Ron, there are so many qualifiers that preface using one of the .22 centerfires (CF), I would offer one more. "Why?" Like you said, "If you have a medical reason, or are so sensitive to minimal recoil," why, would you use a .22 CF? You consistently hear, "It's barely adequate, there are much better cartridges available, you need to be very careful," which brings me back to square one. Why?
Just moving up to the .243 gives you many advantages over a .22 CF.
And the discussion continues........
After he retired to Scotland, Karamoja Bell selected the 220 Swift as his highland deer stalking rifle. From his experience of light calibres and his exceptional ability in bullet placement, he found the 220 Swift the ideal calibre.
I have hunted with a 220 swift for over 15 years and it’s all about bullet placement and taking your time . I have guided here in Texas and I have to cull hunt and doe hunt on MLD properties I have only lost one deer out of many . I love it. Thanks for talking more about the 22s , it’s very helpful.
But your deer are the size of large dogs down there in comparison to big corn fed Whitetails in Wisconsin or Wyoming Mulies. "Taking your time"....sure, when you're on a deer lease in south Texas and are sitting at at shooting bench in front of a feeder. I've been on Texas "hunts"....not quite the same as a snap shot at a big Whitetail or Mulie in the wild. And it's NOT "all about bullet placement" either. That bullet MUST create shock and tissue damage unless you've taken out the heart. I've seen Hi velocity small caliber "paper punch through and throughs" do little to stop big game. You MUST have expansion. I guess I'm not as fortunate as you to always have a nice broadside or a stationary animal at under 200yds.
The 220 swift like most 22 caliber rifles is very accurate. I believe I can harvest a deer with my .223 because it certainly has the power and the accuracy. Sadly I can not hunt legally with .223 in my state because of hunting laws.
@@russellkeeling9712 And those laws are in place because of very good reasons. You think they just made an arbitrary decision not to allow .22 cal bullets to shoot at their animals? No...those regs were based on people knowing the propensity for those tiny, light, fast bullets to not create enough soft tissue damage, hydro shock or wound channel. I love my .223 match rifles. I shoot them VERY accurately out to 600yds and am positive I could hit the vitals of a deer 10/10 times under 300 yds with one of my match rifles...but there's ZERO chance I'd hunt with it.
It's nice to see more coverage of the 22 cal rifles. Most "outdoor channels" are all about bigger and badder guns and bullets.
I live in WI and the 22-250 does just fine on our deer. They get big too, over 300 lbs. Critters don't do well when you put a grenade in their chest. If it will go through 3/8 armor plate, it'll smash a deer....and the 22-250 will do both.
@@ikesquirrel but what happens if you put a gut shot into a deer and it takes off, offering you only a tail on shot. A .22 projectile isn’t going to penetrate very far.. not to mention if there’s a monster buck standing there and your only shot available is a heavy quartering away shot. I’d stick with a 243 and 90gr plus projectiles minimum
Thanks Ron for the honest assessment on .22s.Sure makes shot placement and bullet construction vital.Appreciate your videos.Hope to be able to support you soon.👍
Many thanks, Dave!
What more can I say to a legend like you but to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR SHARING YOUR KNOWLEDGE ABOUT GUNS, I am learning a lot from watching your videos
I've taken Dozens of Deer and Antelope w/ the .223. Out to 400 yards. Though I'm typically a 300 yrd and closer Hunter. Mostly using Ultramax. 55 grain Speer Soft point Bullets.
At times I Hunted in more Built up areas I used Hornady TAP .55 Grain ammo.
For its frangable properties for Safety.
Many of the Ranchers I know must Not have gotten the memo that they weren't supposed to use .22's for Feeding there Families.
I know Ranchers/Ranch Hands that use
.222, 204 Ruger, .223/556, .22-250. And Swear by them.
If you think that a .22 is right for you.
Don't Overthink it.
Pick the Rifle / cartridge combination that you like. Practice with it until you have Confidence. Then go shoot Game. It will work. Period
Best Wishes from Montana! M.H.
I've shot most of my deer in my whole life with a .223 and never have to track the deer because it's laying there dead.Good shot placement and a little patience and know what your gun can do.I was a good bow hunter and a double lung shot with a .223 also is lethal with no tracking involved.
Lung shot deer with any caliber can run a good distance has been my experience. I shot a 200 pound buck at 10 feet with a 30-06, 150 grain bullet and it went over 50 yards for one example. Hit them in the should and double lung then they drop on the spot.
@@cjberan may I introduce you to the 12ga slug? They will always get the job done. While being cheap, easy to reload, and accepted almost everywhere. Along with being the best defensive gun a civilian can own
@@stompingpeak2043 it has its place but there are reasons we use rifles when we can:)
@@cjberan yeah I just like to feel the power of big bore weapons. Getting within 100yrds and hearing the big smack. 12ga, 50cal loader, 4570 etc are all soo satisfying compared to hipower rifles imo
Ron, another great video. Thank you.
The 22-250 is easily my favourite 22cal rifle. Soooo versitile. 40gn vmax bullets for the bunnies right up to the 60gn bullets I use for goats. If a had a tighter twist barrel I would certainly go heavier with the bullet selection. Perhaps a good load development project when I next swap out the barrel.
Again, thank you for the fantastic education and history lesson.
Hey Ron I really appreciate the insight and knowledge , great videos and stories 👍
Great and informative video Ron! 👍🏻
I remember reading about Herb Klein using a 22 Varminter (predecessor of 22-250) when hunting with Jack O’Connor, intending it for everything including grizzly. That sounded “exciting” 😗
I noticed that Tikka now chamber their new wooden stocked T3x Varmint Hunter in 22-250 with 1-8” twist as option 👍🏻
Thanks for the tip on the Tikka fast twist 22-250!
A friend and I have used 223 REM with great success on whitetail deer as long as you stay within certain parameters. The idea of an 80-90 grain 224 cal bullet from a bigger case intrigues me, especially as it might compare to a 243 with a similar weight bullet.
I live in ND and I Stand behind Spomer!
I've used a .223 in Arkansas for deer. Shot one buck at 80 yards broadside with a Nosler Partition. Ran 25 yards and piled up. Very little blood trail, but the lungs were pretty torn up inside. Arkansas deer are on the smaller side, and with a good bullet and shot selection, there's no problem. I'd shoot out to 150 yards. My gun is very accurate, and it was much cheaper to buy a box of good .233 ammo for the gun I already had, instead of going out and buying a "traditional" deer rifle like a 30-06.
I took my first deer with a .223. It was my 3-gun competition rifle. Hit him in the heart with a 75gr Hornady TAP round. It was over the second the bullet hit him.
Maybe not the ideal hunting rifle, but it worked well for the smaller deer we have here on the southeast coast.
That's actually nearly ideal on those smaller deer. I have a friend who used a .325 WSM in Georgia, seldom taking a shot over 80 yards from his tree stand, with time to wait for a perfect presentation.
Frankly he'd have been better served with your .223.
Great Video and yes, I'm sure you'll catch some crap.. My first deer rifle was a Savage 99, rotary mag, with the shell indicator on the side, it was a 250-3000 and it shot a very small bullet, but it would easily take down a deer. Shot placement is everything. Thanks for the videos and keep them coming..
A great round and rifle. Just the right size for deer on down.
First deer I ever took was with a .22 Hornet. M77 nice enough still to leave to my kids one day. Nice and fun shooting piece.
All 3 of my children started hunting with small calibers. 22 honet and 223. All took deer with no problem. Shot placement was always stressed in our home. Now there much older. My girls use 243s and my son a 270 now but all 3 still use their smaller rifles for fox coyotes n woodchuck.
Thanks Ron, I’ve been thinking about using a .223 on whitetail, so this was timely and very helpful.
You bet
I think you will be very Happy with the Results.
The .223 is Very Versatile and Easy to Shoot well.
I've Fed my Family with this Cartridge for Decades.
Best Wishes! M.H.
Thanks Mike!
Started both of my sons out with a .223 single shot handi rifle shooting 55 grain v- max bullets. In Ky anything centerfire is legal. They have taken dozens of deer, never lost any. An accurate rifle, with little recoil makes for an accurate shooter , especially in youngsters and small framed shooters. My son's took deer from 50 to 200 yards simply aiming BEHIND the front shoulder! None made it.out of sight. Bigger calibers cannot make up for poor shot placement or lack of practice and experience.
I would seriously consider switching to a soft point. Even something like a cup and core 55 or 62 grain because those vmax bullets have really thin jackets and expand really fast/shallow. Sounds like you have been lucky so far but if they have to take a quartering shot or end up hitting shoulder it could end bad. I took my first couple deer with a 22-250 with just some 55gr rem green box soft points out to 225 yards and the deer never made it far but they never leave good blood trails.
Wow...the V-Max is an excellent bullet for groundhogs but deer? Are you certain that the bullet was not a poly tip of some other sort? Sounds dicey to me if the information is accurate.
@@Nick-sx6jm very seldom is there a blood trail. We use, stealth patience, and always wait for the right shot angle. Something all hunters should be.taught before ever pointing a gun at wildlife.
@@hillbillyscholar8126 information is accurate. And yes standard hornady 223 55 grain Vmax running 3240fps
@@hillbillyscholar8126 no more dicey than using an17 remington 25 grain.on coyotes. I have killed a slew of coyotes with an17 remington.
Back in the 70s and early 80s my father hunted whitetail deer exclusively with a bolt action .22 magnum rifle. He filled all of his tags each year with that little .22 magnum. He never had a scope on it. He never cared much for a scoped rifle. I watched him drop deer several times at 250 yards, and many more than that at closer ranges. He was a spot and stalk hunter, and he'd always stalk as close as he could to them, but if 200 to 250 yards was as close as he could get he'd take them from that distance without a problem. During that time I was with him on every hunt, and he never lost a deer or had one run off more than say 50 to 75 yards or so. Most just dropped where they stood. Sometimes he'd take a head shot, and sometimes he'd take a heart/lung shot. Even today I just chuckle when I hear people piss & moan and say, "you should never hunt whitetail deer with anything smaller than a .243 Win, or a *insert flavor of the week caliber*".
Thank you for this video.
I use my Savage .22 Hornet for groundhogs, rabbits, and anything that pesters my garden. My Father bought the gun as my first deer rifle when I was 11. I am 71 now, so I have had the rifle for 60 years. The guy who sold it to my Father said he had harvested four Whitetails with it. Ergo, the rifle is at least 64 years old. I never got the opportunity to shoot a deer with it. It still shoots just fine. Iron sights, but I am seriously considering putting a scope on it. It might be fun.
As it always was, still is, and always will be, shot placement is everything---so long as one understands one's cartridge.
You omitted the 22 Creedmoor. It's similar to the 22-250AI with a 7 twist barrel. It can use bullets up to the 95gr SMK and can push a 78gr TSX at 3400fps.
Great video, really enjoyed it! Would love to see more videos on hydrostatic shock, speed and bullet types and all that sort of thing
Hope to get to those soon.
Agree. Please post.
always a pleasure to listen to your thoughts Ron , i have 223 and 22-250 for different applications but also a selection of bullet design within those two cartridge's which gives me a wide array of animals and distances
My pleasure, 30-30.
I always enjoy these videos and pleasant demeanor
22 hornet is my favorite go to gun for whitetails. I've been shooting it for almost thirty years and have never shot more than once and they drop in their tracks with neck shot.
Agreed I love my hornet for deer I stick to headshots though , never tried a neck shot, do a lot of culling on our deer farm have 50 plus with a hornet and close to the same with a 22mag
🛑🛑 I was brought up on the 22 Hornet. 😂👍
I’ve shot everything except a Bear with the Hornet (Sqiurrel, Fishers, Turkey, Rabbits, Grouse and Deer).
If the world came to and end tomorrow, I would take the 22 Hornet “hands down” to keep meat on my table. 😀👍
Every Deer I’ve taken with the. 223/5.56, I have considered it as a bow shot, double lung 🫁, I took a 200lb 8 pt at 225 yards and considered that the extreme range for the 55gr Hornady I was shooting, he ran an estimated 80 yards and piled up. This is an exception and not the rule. Great video Ron as always.
Terrific show. Thank you.
I agree to your point for deer, as long as your bullet has the sectional density, composition and adequate twist rate.
My father in law, who grew up and lived mostly in rural west Texas, loved his 22-250 for White tail. He passed it down to my younger son but we haven’t taken it hunting, I just didn’t feel it was enough, having grown up with the 30-06, 270 and 7mm’s. It’s a beautiful gun and super easy to shoot. Maybe we will take it this year.
I had my son using a 22 250, light recoil is a good thing for younger shooters, he never missed one and only one ran more than 20 yards and it ran about 100 which was impressive considering its heart was literally in multiple pieces.
@@stabbinfatties9489 Yeah the animal running a certain distance really doesnt have to mean a bad shot placement. I shot a deer thru both lungs that ran 50 meters last year. I have friends who shot boars, also both lungs gone, that ran up to 200-300 meters.
I knew old WV jacklighting poachers that loved the 22 hornet. It was softer on the wardens ears they claimed and dropped deer with headshots. Not right but history.
Well said Ron. I think you put exactly the right emphasis on the .22 caliber issue and that was a superb analysis. I've never hunted with .22 caliber, I've always used .30 caliber, but I have worked up a load for .223 Rem with a 65gr Sierra Game King that is very accurate and in the right situation I think it would put a deer down in a heartbeat. I don't believe I would use it beyond that 150 yard range though and here in Wyoming, that's chip shot range so I'll stick with my .30 cal.
I agree. I’ve taken many deer with 22 cal. I even killed a nice 8 point with a 204 at 260 yards. Your right shot placement.
All depends on how good you can shoot, I shot whitetail with a 204 for years an never lost one, head an neck shots only mainly
You used the 70 grain bullet as an example of remaining energy in a 220 Swift. It is a rare .220 that will shoot a bullet that heavy/long. I have a 90's Winchester Model 70, Heavy Varmint in .220. It has a 1/14 twist. 55 grain is about the max. I have been tempted to re-barrel it with a tighter twist barrel to take advantage of some of the heavier bullets but, I believe the reason it kills like lightning is from the hydrostatic shock of the faster bullets. Going to heavier bullets and corresponding slower velocities might give less spectacular results. Love your videos.
Back when I was in my teens I didn’t own any other rifle besides a Savage Axis in .223. I also only owned cheap Tulammo steel case FMJ ammo. Behind the front shoulder, they don’t go over 50 yards. There won’t be a blood trail, usually no blood on the ground at all. But there’s something to be said about a high velocity tumbling projectile. Never had one drop instantly, but never had one run over 50 yards either.
Like you I was an aficionado of the 22-250 for years then went to the AI and followed that with the 224 Clark (7x57 necked down) then 257 Roberts then 6mmRem necked down and then finally my favourite 22-284 N570 is our preferred powder and any of the Berger VLDs and hybrids have worked well but settled with the 95grain at 3400mv
I’ve killed the majority of my deer with a remington 700 in .223. Keep the distance reasonable and shot placement good and it works like a charm.
.22 caliber centerfires can definitely work on deer sized game, and likely even larger with the right bullets such as the Barnes TSX series, the Nosler Partition, or the Speer Gold-dot.
If I’m not mistaken, the Speer Gold-dot and Federal Fusion are one and the same.
@@gsnicholas8522 they could very well be, I've not got a lot of experience with federal rifle ammo to be honest.
Yes they can, but larger calibers can work better, more consistently.
@@fedup3582 not necessarily. A good shot is a good shot no matter what caliber is used, and a poor shot is still a poor shot regardless of caliber used. In a lot of instances the smaller, milder recoiling calibers are a little easier to make a more precise shot placement.
Controlled chaos hands down
Thank you for a great Video.
Really picking up a lot of good information here about 22 Centerfire since I recently acquired a Remington 700 220 Swift, shot and loaded for a 25 06 for years, only hunting Whitetail and crows and coyotes, found out that Nosler partition was the way to go, had good luck with the ballistic tip solid base , I'm listening now to figure out a bullet for deer hunting with my Swift. I love your knowledge and the testing you do is so much fun but will get frustrating sometimes. thanks for the excellent show mr. Spoomer
Karamojo Bell preferred the 220 swift for hunting red stag in Scotland due to the hydrostatic shock it generated.
My Dad used a 22 Savage Hi Power (5.6 x 52) most of his life and he swore by it.
Really hard to find now a days.
He was hunting black tail deer (a variaty of mule deer) on Vancouver Island British Colombia.
Realy enjoy your program thanks!
Take Care
Sellier&Bellot (Chech) still loads it fairly cheap. Maybe Norma still does.
@@oldgoat1890 Thank you,
Sage advice Ron, I always trust your opinion as its based on your vast experience. All the best to you.
Much appreciated
Finally someone that understands the grenade effect of the light high velocity bullet.
I reload 223. This was a very informative vid with your bullet choices... I can't wait till we start getting more choices again for us reloaders. I've shot a few deer with this in a 62grn. All head shots. No tracking. Shot placement is everything.
Head shots? Boy that is opening a can of worms here.
Headshots work. I do that with roe deer does and fawns. Using a .308 180 grain softpoint. Usually not much head left.
.223 Varmint rounds work great on critters.
No trophy there so you can use all the meat.
I remember reading a story in a magazine years ago about some guys hunting mountain goats with model 99 savage 22 high powers and making one shot kills at long distant. I think that they had European made scopes which was a novel thing at the time as it was pre-WWII. I always wanted to see one of these guns but never have found one.
The originals are usually not that accurate with the only bullet available, a 70 grain(.277) slug and a 1-12 barrel. Mine has a 1-10 twist barrel and is converted to a solid frame/barrel and is really accurate.
Montana was awash in Savage 99s in the 1990s. Run of the mill calibers were roughly $4-500.
Ron, thanks for the video! The camera looks great.
You are very welcome
I'm an Aussie and I work in a major gun shop in Melbourne. I remember when I was around 18 that the 222 Rem was still king. Nearly every farmer had one and it was used as a jack of all trades from rabbits to kangaroos up to all of our deer species. In New Zealand our deer culling friends across the pond in the 60's and 70's would be dropped off with a heap of 223 ammo to cull red deer and they were then taken out with choppers. The ammo was cheap and being smaller in size, easier to carry. In terms of 22 center fires today it's a different story. Although I cut my teeth on the 22/250 when I first began hunting, the 223 is without a doubt (along with the .308) the two most biggest sellers here in Australia. The variety of 223 factory ammo today ranges from varmint hunting up to long range target shooting. Even water buffalo cullers use the 308 with a FMJ bullet to the brain. The 22 centre fire (while not a legal calibre in most States of Australia) when used withing range, at undisturbed game with the correct pullet design and shot placement, will kill animals up to deer. However for me if I'm going deer hunting I'll take my deer rifle. If I'm going spotlighting for foxes I'll take my 223 or 22/50. However yes, when in a pinch and with the right nut behind the butt, .224 calibre guns can punch above their weight! Thanks for sharing Ron.
"Nut behind the butt." I like it.