American Reacts to What a Hot Hatch lap at Nürburgring looks like
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ย. 2024
- Join this channel to get access to perks:
/ @iwrocker
original - - • Amazing round with Peu...
• 205 GTI ENRAGED NURBUR...
TIP JAR - - - - - SuperThanks Button :)
This will help improve the channel greatly, New webcam for better videos, Wheel for the hotlaps, or you can just buy me a cold drink 😎 I APPRECIATE YOU
Send us Stuff!! 😋 IWrocker 5225 Harrison Ave PO box # 6145
Rockford, IL 61125
Discord - - IWrocker TH-cam - - / discord
LIKE and Subscribe! Join One of the BEST & wholesome Communties on TH-cam, with tons of Variety in content for You to Enjoy.
*TimTam collection Record Holder
*Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. No copyright infringement intended. ALL RIGHTS BELONG TO THEIR RESPECTIVE OWNERS
For BBC Top Gear, the late, great Sabine Schmitz did this track in a Ford Transit Van, great viewing.
Had to jump off and watch that again. amazing lap. so sad :-(
in 10 min ! 🎉🎉
YESSS!!! WE NEED A iWrocker reaction to that! I think Ian would LOVE it!
RIP.
Spare a thought for the poor guy who decided to take his motorcycle for a blast around the Nordschliefe that day, only to find himself getting blown away by a girl in a Ford Transit van. RIP Sabine "Queen of the Ring" Schmitz.
5:12: "Allez avance toi" The driver is complaining the Porsche is too slow hahahah
You're on the Nürb, testing your brand new Porsche, and suddenly, an old 205 is horning to overtake you. 😂
BOUGES!!!!
Nurburgring 24 hour starts tomorrow and into Sunday, all live on the tubes guys.
Start at 16.00 h MEST - Chicago time is -7h :)
i'm going to see it live .
Is it around Nordschleife too?
I'll drive over there in the morning, but I'll take the motorcycle even though it will rain for sure, since there will be no getting through by car
@@mfsars1075 Yes it is. 24h at the Nordschleife.
Watch Sabine Schmidt ( the Queen of Nürburgring ). There is an excellent BBC show Top Gear and thye showed her doing it in a van. Sadly she passed from cancer but this is unbelievable of someone who has driven the track thousands of time. Really, she drove it every day.
Second this! 👍
My bucket list is ambitious. Don't just want a lap of The 'Ring, I wanna stay in her family's old hotel over in Adenau. I wonder how long in advance I'd have to book a room.
He already did.
Her name was Sabine Schmitz (for better Google results)
205 T16 is basically a road version of a group B car. It is a factory upgraded mid engine car .
anf there were only 5 hundreds made for the homologation if i rememberer correctly/ I guess it most be around 150K euros now...not really your typical peugeot 205 GTI
@@fgtag2429 And only 20 needed for the Evolution homologation
@@fgtag2429 more like 500k ....
200 for homologation and 20 for evolution
@@Carlos_Magalhaes Yep. They did 200 for the Group B homologation, 20 for Evo1 and 20 for Evo2.
The reason hot hatches never gained popularity in the US is simple, too many Americans still believe that the only way to make a car go fast is to stuff a bigger engine in the car. "There is no replacement for displacement" is the term that comes to mind, the problem is big engines are heavy and they need to go in big cars that are also heavy so so much of the power is wasted just hauling all that weight around and they don't corner because it harder to get all that weight to change directions.
... and they don't have corners!
In the US roads tend to be long, wide and straight, small hatchbacks just don't fit there that well... they are lighter and more nimble, but there's very little occasions where this would show. There are very few countries with similiar road networks, but in US big cars with big engines are at home. Car with big powerful engine, maybe some drag races on remote highways, enjoying of sounds and high speeds - this just US version of people enjoying of great handling and acceleration on smaller twisty roads elsewhere.
Racing in the US is purely made as profitable entertainment to audiences as possible, sadly it really shows and there's no excuse for it. Drag racing is exception though, fits the US car culture perfectly and makes sense why it has such history and popularity.
You should check out this video "AX diesel Nurburgring record lap 9:55 BTG"
It is a guy who practised for 7 years and finally pushed his old 52hp Citroen AX diesel to the limit and get a sub 10 minute lap. Absolute legend!
This goes to show, it doesn't always have to be sportscar or a hothatch.
One of the funniest and satisfying videos I've watched in a while. That guy is straight up gangster for driving that fast in a Citroen AX around the track and he really pushed that thing to its absolute limit, almost losing control a couple of times. Saluer à ce gars!
I have driven a stock AX for a few years and yes ... this car is well balanced altough still ugly 🤭
Certainly impressive given the diesel AX isn't even turbocharged, I believe it used the same 1.5l XUD engine my old diesel Peugeot 106 had, all torque and no revs but I liked owning mine, I could also get it to do over 60 mpg
I love that video, the guy is driving the absolute arse out of a diesel ax, I watched the video with a pal and we both cheered when the lap finished.
I’d rather drive a slow car quickly than a fast car slowly.
That Peugeot is not slow however, if your car is that light even 200hp will send it like a rocket. That's why Lotus Elise's are supercar quick around tracks even with just 1.8l and 2.0l engines.
@@bzilla-d4i obviously. Just saying, I’ve seen hundreds of Nordschliefe videos and the most exciting ones have small, high revving engines and a high power to weight ratio. I’d rather watch a modified Honda Civic that revs to 9,000 rpm lap the Nordschliefe than a McLaren Senna. This Peugeot doesn’t rev high because it’s a turbo, but it’s still fast.
This is obviously not a 205 T16 Group B version, or the civil version but a 205 GTI with 405 T16 engine swapped on it. The 205 T16 was a by-product of the racing program. It shared nothing with the mass-production 205 except the windscreen, doors and headlamps. Mechanically it was completely different, most notably its mid-engined and 4-wheel-drive layout. The fact that it was shaped and named to be a 205 member was purely to promote the sales of the mass production car.
It’s a home built for track performance, based on a regular 205gti, with a turbo kit added.
It’s a little under 300bhp and well under a tonne in weight, so power to weight is way higher than most performance cars of the day.
@@DontPanicDear It's not a turbo kit added on a 205 engine, it's a engine swap to a 406 T16 engine.
That’s the same engine, with a 16valve head.
Regardless, it’s a 1.9 with a turbo added. Did you hear the induction, waste gate and exhaust? That’s what fi engines sound like.
The second car is an NA build, which you can again, hear quite clearly.
@@DontPanicDear Obviously talking about the first one... From the info to the original video... "This is obviously not a 205 T16 Group B version, or the civil version but a 205 GTI with 405 T16 engine swapped on it"
You want to see the ultimate "A good driver can make a huge difference" check out - Sabine Schmitz's Nurburgring Van Challenge.
I drove the same track in a Peugeot 205 1.1 with just 54 horsepower and still had fun. the road-going Peugeot 205s were 3-door, 5-door or convertible and had engines from 40 horsepower with 950 cc to 130 horsepower with 1900 cc but it was very easy to put larger engines such as the 2.0 16v turbo and some also put 2.1 turbodiesel engines. I'm in Italy and the national meeting here this year will be in Lovere in the province of Bergamo, on the shores of Lake Iseo next weekend, but in Europe every state has at least one club of enthusiasts of these light and fun cars ..
The stock 205 was a snappy car. You could ask a lot from it in a corner...but because of that, when the rear end decided to quit, it would spin hard!
it was my first car, and i could oversteer it on roundabouts, it was such a fun car to drive. Then I had a 206 gti, which I took the the ring, and that wasnt as docile, but you could still induce oversteer by just lifting off the gas mid corner. They dont make cars like that anymore.
@IWrocker guy who suggested the video on Discord here, with context around the first Peugeot 205 Video:
The video's title is slightly click-baity in that it claims it's a "Peugeot 205 T16". A 'real' Peugeot 205 T16 would be a rear/mid-engined 200 HP Homologation Special street version of the Group B Rally vehicle (which made some 350HP, and later even 500HP). The description of the video specifies that it's actually a Peugeot 205 GTI (front-engined, originally 104HP (1.6L) or 126 HP (1.9L)), that has had the original engine swapped out and replaced with the 2.0L 200HP engine from a Peugeot 405 T16, a sporty trim of a larger car model.
In short, the 205 in the video bears some similarity to, but is not a real 205 T16. It's just a regular front-engined model with a normal interior and an excellent engine swap that gives it raw power equivalent to the very rare homologation special vehicle, but otherwise lacks many of the real thing's sporty properties.
At least that's what my wikipedia-fu concluded.
On a sidenote: the T stands for Turbo. The 16 stands for 16 Valves. This was somewhat uncommon at the time, especially for a relatively small kind of vehicle such as this.
merci
Also somewhat uncommon for Peugeot which is more known for its Naturally aspirated engines, which you could argue for people not familiar with Peugeot, is somewhat comparable to Honda, seeing as Peugeots do good with naturally aspirated engines and commonly have pretty good transmissions... and when it comes for French cars theyre also somewhat reliable all things considered. I happen to own a fairly rare (from what i hear) 1997 Peugeot 605 2.0 Turbo, which to anyone not familiar with the brand, is Peugeots flagship sedan from 1989 to 2000.
Oh really? I thought the 16 was because of the 4X4 driveline
@@ManWithBeard1990 According to WIkipedia ( en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peugeot_205#205_Turbo_16_(T16) ): "The T was for Turbo, fuel fed by Bosch K-Jetronic fuel injection and a compression ratio of 6.5:1; the 16 stands for DOHC 16 valves."
Glad you clarified that mate, had it in my head that there was a 405 TI 16 model 👍🏻 but wasn’t sure lol
about the understeer of European hatchback - a 90s Clio I - I had learnt a valuable lesson about 2 month after i got my driving license.
When you take turn on a mountain road it make a great deal of a difference if you are driving alone or if you have 3 people in the backseat :-D
It's a bit of a myth that front wheel drive makes the car always understeer, they don't. It's very much a question of clever engineering. I've driven all sorts of cars, front- rear- 4-wheel drive during my almost 60 year driver career, private and professional. My present front wheel drive car has a toe-out front geometry - to make it more agile into the corner - and toe-in at the back to keep control of the rear. On ice and snow, and even gravel, it turns in beatifully and I can let the rear out by using the throttle whenever I need. BUT... not all front wheel cars can do that even if it's more common today than 30 years ago. Thank you for sharing your thoughts! 👍😎
If you want to go fast in a front wheel drive hatchback, accelerate soft to hard through corners.
I’ve got an old diesel Golf with good tyres it’s pretty quick out of corners.
You get more control of the whole wheels and engine mass pulling wherever you point it and the rest of the car just trails behind.
I've owned 2x pug 205s in my life. The best one I had in 99-2000. It was engine swapped (mi16), with a turbo conversion, and lightened crank/flywheel. That thing really shifted! 0-60 under 6 second, and went off the clock. Sadly it dropped a big end on a hot day coming back from wild swimming. 😢 These cars were exceptionally light, with amazing balance and handling, however we're prone to lift-off oversteer, so it was best to keep the right foot planted! 😂 The slightly longer but technically similar 309 GTi was more stable.
I had a GTI too.
Not modified but still quick.
And yeah keep the right planted.
Had three Minis too, including a 69 Cooper.
Same again, plant the right.
Also owned a few Caterhams, don't plant the right ha ha.
The second 205 GTi is even better. Natural aspirated, makes a hell of rpm and he can max it out on that track a couple of times. That thing has so much punch, he could make the fifth gear longer for this track.
The driver is skilled as hell, he knows this track A LOT, you can clearly see that. Amazing clip!
I built a 205 gti 2ltr turbo as a track day car for the Knockhill track, it handles like a gocart, that T16 or Mi16 is a carburettor engine, with Yokohama semi slick tyres it counter steers itself, an amazing car to drive, the 2ltr conversion is the most popular, you take it from a Peugeot 405 👌
The older Peugeot were real legos. You could upgrade all the drivetrain (engine, gearbox ratios, brakes) by directly swaping parts from other bigger models.
A friend won a rally (in his class) with little upgrades: he swapped all the gears in the gearbox to fit perfectly the engine and the rally course, a 309 gti16 rear end, bigger front brakes.
All the 007 crap comes stock though.
th-cam.com/video/6fm567YGy5c/w-d-xo.html
;D
Peugeot rally car 205 T16 Evolution 2 335 kW (450 hv) @ 7500 r/min 0-100 km/h 2.9 s , civilian version 147 kW (200 hv) @ 6750 r/min 0-100 6s
Rally cars don’t have basic cheap roll cages. That’s a ‘Dash dodger’ cage 😮
Go and watch a video of an actual T16 and you’ll see the difference. These cars are just locals in their ex-daily cars.
Tame.
Most people severely underestimate the power to weight ratio. Those old hatches weigh only about 700kg, and have, say, 150hp.
A Terminator Cobra for example weighs roughly 1700kg, and produces 390hp. The old hot-hatch has only a little bit less power to weight than the SVT has. (0.21vs 0.23)
That way a silly little hot-hatch with a comparatively tiny (and NA!) four-banger has the same power to weight ratio as a supercharged V8 with tons of displacement.
Great point 🎉👍
That's one point.
On tracks like the Nürburgring lighter means being able to brake later and to go a lot faster through corners.
That's why even 911s and the likes have to fight on everything but the long straight against significantly less powerful cars.
Sabine Schmitz once raced a 911 vs. "the Ring Mini". She did win in the end (again - the long straight) - but that first gen Mini really put up a fight. He passed her in almost every corner - as he could brake waay later due to a lot less weight.
Only this is a 205T16 which weighed little over 900 kilos and had 350 horsepower. If it's an Evolution 2 it has 500 horsepower and is a little bit lighter than the 1st one.
so what you're saying is people can't do simple math ^^'
@@IWrocker But not true.... my 1st car was a 205 Rallye ( a special edition 205 to comemorate the Rally championship win of peugeot with the 205 T16 ), now that thing had NOTHING inside lol, no power steering, no central lock, no ABS, no Airbag, no power windows, the only luxury that car had was a shit kasset player lol and 2 front speakers, didnt even had seat belts on the back seats, it also had a small engine a twin double Webber carbureted1.3l putting out 110 BHP, but it weighed 850kg dry ( and it was the lighter 205 that Peugeot made ), no hatch would weigh 700kg, even the T16 ( rally version, with the composit material panels, light weight frame and completelly gutted ) would weigh close to 950 kg, of course it also had 500BHP which was nice lololol, giving it a power to weight ratio better than a Bugatti Veyron.
These hot hatches do have a lot of lift off oversteer. If you lift the throttle while in the corner weight shifts forward and the rear will have a lot less grip. So if you are already driving on the limit of grip lifting while in a corner will send you spinning.
That is the biggest difference with front and rear wheel drive. You need to keep power on while cornering to keep grip and carry speed.
One of my fondest childhood memories was dad taking us to that track with the family's brand new Golf 2, everyone was screaming in terror and I was laughing my butt off in delight.
Did the Nürburgring once in the early eighties in my old Mk1, VW Scirocco. Interresting when you come round a bend and are confronted by a campervan!
Beautiful area too in the hills of the Eifel and the River Ahr valley with its vineyards.
Love a hot hatch.. Had a few over the years. My first in the early 1990s was a Mk1 Fiesta XR2, I then had a Mk2 XR2, a series 2 Escort RS Turbo, 2 Focus ST’s (with the 5 cylinder engine), and my last hot hatch was the hottest I’ve owned, an awesome ultimate green Mk2 Focus RS (5 cylinder)
Cars like this are just brilliant to drive 😎🤙🏽
here the trad of the french driver :
2:36 : "ho move !"
4:39 : "i make sign to the bike to tell him he can overpass me"
5:14 : "hey move away !"
8:56 : "i move on the side to let pass the bike, but nothing"
by the heavy sound of the turbo, she's not a stock gti version.
Trad as in traduction? That would translate as tran/trans/transl (not sure what to pick 😂). I know, very meta 😂
Anyway, thanks for the trad! 😉
@@gbormann71 you'r right, my phone correct me and go back to french :D
@@nikline60 That pesky auto-correct! I switch it off, now I suffer from fat fingers! 😄
205 gti with a 405 T16 engine.
@@gbormann71 I'd rather have fat fingers than auto correct correcting acronyms it doesn't know
I'm at the ring right now for the 24h race tomorrow.😊
When the 205 GTi first came about, lots of young city traders bought them and found out quickly what lift-off oversteer was! Many of them ended up in hedges, which is why they were practically uninsurable at one point.
These days, tyre technology is so much better that that trait of the 205 has been somewhat tamed, and they are superbly balanced.
I’ve hill-climbed my 205 Roland Garros cabriolet (1.4, 85bhp) a few times and it’s great fun. Getting one rear wheel off the ground (tripoding) on a tight uphill hairpin is a laugh!
It's not only the driver.
This car is far from standard with it's massive engine swap, antilag turbo, and, by the looks, even a sequential gearbox.
The camera shake also suggests a lot of work went into the suspension.
In the original description it said neither standard nor Group B.
I am quite certain it is a lot closer to the latter than the former.
Used to have '99 Peugeot 206 S16 99 kW/135 PS (GTI essentially) +900kg 220kph but it's a bicycle compared to 205 T16 - widened body, turbo,~800kg (Group B rally monster), those little cars are supercar slayers...price apx 100,000 euros. ;-)
I drove an 800 kg 1980s 55 hp VW Polo for a while. On twisty roads you could make its tires squeal consistently and safely.
The T16 was an awd group B homologation model with a massive turbo, mid engine layout 500 tsnd quids or double that or more and it could be yours. The regular 205 was fantastic fun with usable liftoff oversteer - that will also kill you if you 're an unskilled driver.
When driving around the Nurburgring on open driving days you are meant to treat the racetrack as a two lane highway. If you are driving slowly you are supposed to stay on the right and if you are driving quickly and overtaking it should be on the left of the track and obviously caution should be taken at corners and hairpins. The motorbikes at the beginning of the lap should’ve moved aside to the right and let the faster vehicle go by rather keeping on the racing line and hindering faster moving cars lately they have got very strict about abiding by the rules
You are right, but I want to clarify a bit more:
You are not only meant to do it, you _must_ do it. Thats because during the "Tourist drive" hours, it is quite literally not classed as a track anymore, but a normal road, with road toll and no speed limit. As far as I know, exactly the same laws apply as would going on any other road in Germany.
Bikers often have no clue that we're driving behind them. Their mirrors are all fussy and the bikes are loud so they don't hear us either. It's often very sketchy to overtake them, I would prefer if they would have biker-only sessions and not mix them with the cars.
@@justincase9471 There are a lot of trackdays organized, including just bikes one.
But as I said, during Tourist drives its classed as a regular road, so anything thats highway legal is welcome.
Dont think there is anything to do about that if they want to keep regular road legal status, which is what enables people running their everyday car or RV or whatever without any special race licence, vehicle inspenction, or protective gear in the first place.
@@GoldenCroc Yes and no. On the GP Strecke we do have bike-only sessions during TF so it can be done under the same rules.
I drive TF quite a lot and I am always very weary when I have to overtake a biker. I safely assume that they have not seen me and I'll wait for them to move over. Unfortunately that sometimes takes a couple of kilometers to happen ... 🙄
@@justincase9471 Fair enough, I remember seeing, assuming you are correct which I am sure you are, what was probably a bike only session at the GP track, but at least back then there was no indication of it being so in official documentation or schedule. Perhaps thats changed these days.
I guess there might be some nuance and spectrum to what their operating licence allows.
Just curious, might I ask a bit about what vehicle you use and some quick summary about it?
The driver reminds me of Sabines Schmitz driving style. She was the queen of the ring. Sabine often appeared on Top Gear. She drove a diesel Ford transit van around the ring in under ten minutes.
I am from Germany, but I never got "Hot Hatches". I absolutely loath understeer, so naturally I stay away from FWD as far as possible.
But I do agree that the best fun is a small, light, mechanically controlled car. The most fun I ever had with a car was my 1990 BMW 316i. It was not fast but you could really push it to the limit. Just raw driving. No electronic throttle contol, just a wire, no ABS, just the feeling in your food, not even powersteering. I think if I had that car again I would need some hours in the gym, just to get my arms to full power again.
It has all the same benefits of a larger vehicle minus the power _and_ a lot of inertia. The lack of inertia means you can get around corners much faster, you have more grip - inertia is what pulls your tyres of the road, the less of it you have the more grip you have, the more grip the more speed you _carry_ around a track and carrying the speed is what makes it seem so much faster. Small, powerful cars are awesome.
I had so many 205 GTI's back in the day. 1.6 and 1.9's. I put a 2.0 16v engine in one from a Citroen Xsara VTS. Although the 205 handles like a go-kart due to the lack of weight and a tyre on each corner - lift off oversteer was a menace however. Not so much for real T16's with their mid engine configuration and 4wd! Awesome vehicles that fetch six figures these days at auction.
Hi, Proud to be French when i see this guy taking over the blue Porsche and shooting at it to make it move away 😂
Btw the Peugeot 205 T16 is the version with central rear position, that version the Group B one, 200 exemplaires road legals were made and sold to be able to put the car on the WRC Group B Championship
The 205 T16 is the road version of the car designed (and succeeding ) to win the final years of Group B rally.
It's a 200HP 4WD (33 front 66 rear configured) midengine monster that weights barely anything. The rally version had the engine put out nearer 500HP.
Dunno if this one was modded to output more than the standard 200, but seeing how he's well kitted for a race track, the engine is probably boosted at least a little too. It's the same block as the rally car, so it can handle quite a bit of extra power.
As for him passing Porsches and motorcycles, he's there to do the race experience, he's going on the edge, most people he passed are just there to drive around the track.
That's not to say he'd probably still give a track configured Porsche a run for its money on Nürburgring, the short wheel base, low weight, 4WD and rally pedigree is going to do a lot of work for him.
I loved my little Renault 5 Alpine Turbo. Just 870kg weight with 108 bhp. I could do 200 km/h, but most fun was driving on bendy country roads.
Seeing Top Gear and Guy Martin take a Ford Transit around the Ring was enormous fun ! Separate pieces, not the same film, all of Guy Martin's Transit films were good fun, as were his other World's Fastest films
The Peugeot 205 T16 is the group B Peugeot if it’s actually the T16, it should be mid rear engine all-wheel-drive instead of the basic front wheel drive version
This is not T 16 Group B car look at the dash, but it can be homologated civil version
They probably meant they swapped the 405 turbo 16v into it.
@@MK-bv6wn They're 100 205 T16 homologated (civil version). It was mandatory to qualify a car for group B
@@MK-bv6wn what did you think I meant? I obviously did not say he’s in the race spec version/ one of the cars that actually competed in group B. Bro, said it was the T16 unless he made a mistake which it’s not my fault if he did then it’s clearly the one that Peugeot made/homologated for group B
@@MrChocobo12 200 is the minimum
I used to drive our 205 GTI back in 1989.
The thing was real quick and glued to the road.
You feel pretty confident stomping the gas.
The 205 GTI was my dreamcar in the 80's. And a poster on the wall with the Peugeot 205 t-16 was my favorite in the group B era in rally and rallycross.
Used to drive a 205 diesel van for work back in the 90s (pizza delivery). They were really light due to no rear seats or even a radio and could hold their own against other proper hot hatches of the era. This was mainly due to the fact that they didn't belong to us drivers, we had no repair bills, drove them to the limit of the gearbox all the time and could brake really late because, well, blame the other car if anything went wrong. We all pretty much made more tips than wages due to rapid deliveries. My experience back then was why I was so sure that Sabine's lap of this same track in a transit van would be awesome, she did not disappoint. A "must watch" video to see what you said about a great driver pushing a vehicle to it's limit in action.
The 205 T16 was a homologation special 4 wheel drive mid engine car built by Peugeot in limited numbers in order to qualify for group B rally events.
First video was road version 205 T16 mid engine 4wd made for Group B, Extremely rare (200 produced) and cost arround 300k to 500k today
T16 means Turbo 1.6. it's the top sports model derived from motorsport. So, not GTI, not swapped, just rare and extremely fun. Also had a 405 T16.
R5 turbo real hard to find now,but omg fun to drive been 40 yrs since I drove my buddy's up to whistler and back to Vancouver before they improved the road ,maybe most fun I've ever had behind the wheel
3 years ago a Peugeot 205 T16 has been sold for a million dollars, this kind of fun has a price
This is not that car. This is a normal 205 with an engine swap.
@@GoldenCroc Indeed, I realized that afterwards
Ian drive through the mountains between France and Spain and the 205 T16, 206 & Renault r5 turbo make huge sense!
I had a Lancie Delta 1.6 HF turbo in those days , damn fun car it was , did feel much much faster and much more fun then present day cars.
Best fun I ever had in a car was my brothers 1275 gt mini, bored out to 1293 with a Cooper S head and a Inch 3/4 carb. Nothing could live with it on the English country lanes I grew up on. This was in the days of XR2 XR3I XR4 Cozzy sierras, RS Escorts, Opel Mantas, Renault 5 Twin, 205 1.9. It smashed them all. The best days were had. You could afford cars, you could engineer cars, you could insure them, you afford to run them, there were no speed cameras, no average speed cameras, no reg plate cams. You didn't have to look for bus lane cameras, you didn't have to wreck your car driving at 30 everywhere, no DPFs no EGR valves, no stupid sensors, no PCP finance so you can't dink your car. They were better, simpler days. Days to learn and live and race and pull girls... I worry for the kids now. No fun, no excitement. Just sitting there playing games, getting fat and getting brain fried. I really pity them!
It's a combination of power/weight ratio, and short wheelbase, that makes them both fast and nimble. It's a side benefit of impatience mixed with narrow wiggly roads.
The Nissan Sunny GTi R was a great hatchback just stock standard straight from the dealer. A little thing (like the Micra) from the early 90's, it was 2 liter turbo, 4wd, 0-60 around 5 seconds, top speed 140mph. Even with the weight of the 4wd it only weighed about 1200 kg or 2650 lb
The Peugeot 205 was used for group B rally, during the time of the Audi, Lancia, Metro 6R4 (cars that people often talk about as the all time greats of rallying). The 205 won world championships against those "great" cars but rarely gets the recognition.
the first one 205 T16 is the homologation model for the group B model. It was 200hp stock (middle engine, 4wd), and can be modify to match the group B version that was producing around 530hp in its evo 2 version. The second one is clearly the GTI version, modified, but I think no turbo, front mounted engine, fwd.
Properly modified they are monsters.
THE 1984 Peugeot 205 Ti 16 was Peugeot's 1775cc turbo engine rear engined 4WD street car version as well the other non street version group B full rally spec version of the car . Cost of the 205 Ti 16 turbo road going spec version when new was around £25,000 UK pounds . The engine was in the back of the car , had four wheel drive and had 200 bhp with the street version spec car . The street spec version 205 Ti16 today is worth around £275,000 - £300,000 UK pounds . The group B 4WD rally version 205 Ti16 1800cc had 350+ bhp , and today is worth an arm and a leg , well over £800,000 UK pounds today .
My weekend is set, 24h of the Nürburgring. Best race... in the world!
A friend of mine had a 205 in early 2000"s. A 205 you can describe with one word. Yeeeeehaaaaaa!
i have a 205 GTI. The trick to drive fast in curves is....flat out! The back grips to the track like glue.
Get your corner wrong in a front wheel drive car, lift-off over steer is no fun😂
I learnt to drive in my first 205 GTI 1.9. It was produced by a UK company called Turbo Technics. With approximately 175 BHP (Garrett Air Research T25 turbocharger system) and 0to 60 in 6.3 seconds. It was great fun to drive.
A number of UK and European car magazines put the car into a test with the Porsche 911 and a Ferrari of the time and In-gear performance from 30 to 70 mph, third and fourth gear, was quickest in the 205!
Small agile light with impeccable steering feel.
The most influential car I have ever owned in terms of shaping the cars that followed❤
Yet I still miss it.
for those who won't watch the linked videos : the first one is a 205 with a 405T16 engine with 200 hp stock (but this one is not stock) and the second one is annonced at 217 hp and 930kg (2050 lb...it's slighty light)
Its a reason we call them Hot hatches :)
FWD is ok to drive, it have a lot of advantages to RWD, like you mentioned you can pull the slide out by flooring it, also you can keep more throttle generally in corners. The biggest disadvantage is acceleration, obviously, and it can be a tad hard to know how the rear is doing.
Visit Germany, go to the Nordschleife at Nürburgring and pay 30 Euros and you get to drive yourself a lap on this iconic course. Or book the RingTaxi, where you are the co-pilot of a racedriver in various race cars, for example in a Porsche 911 GT3 RS for 349 Euros. Heck you could even book the driver training, where in the same Porsche you are coached by a race driver and get to drive a lap yourself, for 939 Euros. And after a race day at the Nordschleife, go visit the Nürburg, the castle that gave the course its name!
All it needs, is you visiting Germany ;)
Ruf CTR " Yellow Bird " Nürburgring 1987.
That one is one vicious video. 😮
@@RustyDust101 A bit hard on the tires.
Yeah dude! It’s my all time favorite Porsche video what made me a Ruf fan. I think they making the best tuned Porsches. Plus it’s funny to watch Stefan Rosenberg driving a the hell out of the car in white socks and loafers on. 😂
This is a 205 T16 so it´s a homologation car so they could compete in Group B rally.
It is mid-engined 4wd, not front-wheel like you think.
Greetings from the Nordschleife! 24hours tomorrow, best race in the World. DONT MISS THAT!
Le Man is better
@@sam915 It's Le Mans and they are both very good races in their own right. I love Le Mans but 24h on the Nordschleife in rain and night is just something really special.
Been around this place more times than I can remember, but ringmasters can feel each others moves from the vision and what part of the track they're at.
We don't even remember what each section is called (or can't pronounce them) but you know the speed zones, the downhill, the climb, the drain, the backwoods, the Lauder, the hills, the cliff, campers straight that isn't straight and the long road home under the bridges.
Took my Porsche 924S around the 'Ring a few years ago - it really is as fun as it looks, but man, you really have to learn the circuit very well to be confident around it. The motorcyclists are sometimes just mental. 12.89 miles per lap - loved it.
You need to do a "Track day" .. being able to navigate someones Granny on her bucket list in her 2CV while you rent a rocket is part of the fun.
The 205 T16 is the road legal version of the group B 205. To enter group B you had to sell road legal versions of it. This is it. It is absolutely not anything to do with any other 205, including the gti. Engine in the back, 4 wheel drive, a turbo the size of a small engine, about double the power of a gti (which amount to I think 250ish hp, about half the rally version so it could actually be used ^^) while weighting nothing. it is a monster :)
It's always cool to see these small hot hatches ripping around the ring like this, nowadays we have modern fwd high performance hot hatches like the megane rs trophy r doing 7.40 on the niurgburgring. Even big high performance suvs like the caynne turbo gt did like a mid to low 7.40 minutes on the ring. I think you shuold watch some of those vids as well (like the megane rs lap record vid and the caynne turbo gt vid cause i think they still both hold their own record on the ring ), even though there are a lot more modern. Still might be interesting to watch.
The 205 T16 was actually the best car to ever race in group B , won both the car and the pilot championship in 1985 and 1986, last year of the group B. The champs were Timo Salonen and Juha Kankkunen. Then it was engaged in rallye raids, and won Paris-Dakar 2 years in a row with the legendary Ari Vatanen (who won Pikes Peak later in the 405 T16) and Juha Kankkunen again in 87 and 88 before Peugeot switched to another legendary car, the 405 T16. This car has only known victory in championships, undefeated 4 years in a row under Peugeot Sport official motorsport team.
The thing with these hatchbacks is, on twisty roads you can squezze the last juices of performance out of them, without ever entering the "certain death" level of speeds. Of course a 1000+ hp Hellcat is way more spectacular, but in order to stay alive you must stay off throttle most of the time.
A 205 T16 is a very , VERY serious weapon.
Peugeot 205 T16 was the "production car" of the Group B. It was a complete different car. 4 wheel drive, 1775cc turbo 200hp middle engine, max speed 200+ km/h, 1145kg.... just the windscreen, lights and doors were from the normal 205. 219 units produced
Peugeot 205, 106 is actually notorious for their lift of oversteer. Been there with my 106 GTI....
the hot hatch smoking all others at the nürburgring lately is the toyota gr yaris...people are saying driving a well modded gr yaris on the track is like a cheat code. was just at the nürburgring last week...live about a hours drive away from the ring and decided to take my 1987 mercedes 190e for a tourist lap...was hell of fun and even managed to smoke some more modern cars...everyone can drive the ring for 25 euros per lap...can only say its a must do if your ever in germany and a car freak...there are even car rentals specially for the ring with really nice cars as options.
Driving an ordinary Yaris on a motorway can be a frightening experience but my mothers' Opel Corsa MKI was even worse.
@@flitsertheo over here in germany thats a pretty common thing hitting the autobahn with a yaris, corsa, polo, fiat 500, and so on... even with a smart for two...never really made me nervous at all...why would it be frightning?in germany at least people drive pretty disciplined even at high speeds so not much to fear even in low powered small cars... even when we lived in california in the 80´s and 90´s we drove a vw scirocco mk1 and a triumph spitfire for many years and the only time we got a bit nervous was when we got in a semi truck(lorry) sandwich on the highway, and that just about makes anybody uncomfortable no matter what car your in...!but back to the yaris again, a gr yaris is no ordinary small hatch, its a rally homologation hot hatch with 276 hp and allwheel drive...the gr yaris is definatly not your average 50 hp city grocery getter and known to smoke some really high end cars on a track and on the road!
That 2nd 205 has some serious mechanical tuning, and suspension setup looks good, extremely balanced. Looks like a hell of a drive, i took a Renault Laguna 3 Coupé 3.5v6 4WS around there, way too soft to be sporting but it was fun as hell.
Or the car is a T16 or a GTI heavy tunned, because that waistgaist has a beautiful sound .
my Hothatch was an 1992 Mazda 323 GTR back in the Days,,,, greetings from Switzerland
Fwd is actually incredibly fast on dry track. You used to see them win WRC Corsica and Germany..
Not followed WRC in a while so not sure how well that stands up with more and more power.
It's a confidence inspiring layout to drive, you can really throw a car into a corner, let the rear step out a lil and just power and point the wheels the way you want to go if you get into trouble.
Add to that, that they are small but relativly powerful with low weight and less rotating mass due to the short drive-line and smaller wheels and tyres.
And to top it off, the short wheel base makes them nimble and again lower weight allows them to carry more speed through the corners.
You should check out old touring car racing.. Ford falcons Vs mini's and everything in between.
Goodwood channel covers lots of it (they still race the old stuff super hard and it's some of the best racing I've seen)
Nowadays (and already in a lot of cases 30+ years ago) WRC cars were 4WD. Look at the cars which won WRC championships, like Audi Quattro, 205T16...
(Read this: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_World_Rally_Championship_Manufacturers%27_champions )
@@Preyfr60 There was a period during the 90's and early 2000's when WRC and a step down class of FWD cars raced during the same weekends and were in a combined state as for the overall event winners, and in the Tarmac tracks those FWD platform cars were dominating, as they slowly evolved from all around FWD rally cars to Tarmac specialized ones because of lax rulebook in that class
I'm headed to the Ring next Thursday on my Yamaha MT07. It's only a 2 hour ride to get there from where I live. It's the best thing in the world
Back in the '70s a work colleague raced a Mini in rally cross racing at Catalina race track in Katoomba, NSW. I went one weekend and he let me drive a couple of laps. It was such fun and my colleague told me off for driving so fast. He expected me to scare myself and slow down LOL.
That Peugeot 205 probably has the 2 liter 16 valve turbocharged engine in it from the 405T16 production version. And the "Oh la la" tells me the driver is probably French.
Rated at 193 HP, but can be tuned to produce more. Power to weight ratio here is insane as most Peugeot 205's don't weigh over 850 kg.
You gotta learn more about that Peugeot 205 T16! It was a mid-engined, 4WD beast developed for Group B.
The 205 was produced for 12 years from 1983 to 1995/96. it was so popular Europe wide we Germans loved it the diesel was amazing a big 1.7 liter diesel natural aspirated with 60 bhp at 4.500 rpm , 127 Nm at 2.000 up to 62 miles in 15.5 seconds topspeed 163 km or 102 miles.. it ran up to 220000 miles…
The Golf Turbodiesel at 70 bhp was not faster…
I think the first one is the original 205 t16 (how it really sounds) and it has about 500 hp. And it has a mid engine thats why you hear the engine that loud. Peugot mad a streetversion of the t16 wich had about 200 hp. My first car was a 205 GTI and even this one was so much fun to drive 🤘
You really know what driving is all about.
It is and never was about speed or records...it is about having fun with driving.
An 80s/90s car gives you exactly that. You feel the road, the engine, and I think that is much more fun , than driving in a supercar with next to no feelings...
That subtitle means "I pull to the side to let the motorbike overtake me, but nothing happens".
The reason for the 205's great handling was that it was kind of a big co-cart, as it has 1 wheel in each corner with pretty much no overhang. This combined with very low weight made them really nippy !! There were several small hatchbacks with the same kind of designfeatures. You didn''t need to have a mahoosive engine in these to have a lot of fun !!
If you want to see a madman doing it, watch Misha Charoudin. He’s now in a racing team with ex sim racer/shed dweller Jimmy Broadbent, whose story is incredible!
You can be as confident as you want, in what ever car you want, on the Nürburgring you need one thing first and foremost: track knowledge. Knowing every turn and bump, of the many there are. And that guy at the beginning did that.
If you ever come to Germany, and to the Nürburgring, you better take it easy. Yes, rental cars have good insurance, but still... :)
Regarding the Civic you had when you were younger, I don't doubt for a second that that was a very fun car, I used to own a slightly newer Civic Sedan, I think it was a 92 or 93, and while it was just a bog standard 1.6, not a hot version or anything the way it handled and stuck to the road was insane, it literally felt like a gocart because it was so low to the ground!
@IWrocker Nürburgring is basically a just a one-way public toll road, and not a race track per se (anymore)...
I remind him of the advertising in France which said that the 205 was a hell of a number
I have driven FWD sports sedans for years. I inherited my sister's '98 Dodge Dakota. Nice pipes. Racing stuff in the rear. When my sister passed away last Oct., I attempted to drive the truck up to the Sierra foothills to visit my friends. A car cut me off, clipped the front left bumper, I slammed on the brakes and that damn truck spun like a top on I-5 in Stockton, CA (Yeah I know) at rush hour. Didn't hit a damn thing, for some reason. Just busted the lens on a rear tail-light. I drove for a living for many years, and I have never had a car spin on me like that, ever.
It’s like driving a go-cart on steroids!
Personally I feel that the 1980s and early 90s were the golden age of the hot hatch. Today's models are impressive on paper with well over 300bhp, lots of high tech features, some have AWD or 4 wheels steering, and they can reach 100kmh (62mph) in under 5 seconds, but with the new safety standards they are very heavy. These standards are definitely there for a good reason, but unfortunately they also mean that the raw fun of a very light car that felt like a go-kart has been somewhat lost. I tried driving a classic 205 GTI once and it felt like riding a midget :D
I used to drive a 205 GTI 1.9 in my youth. This brings back memories 😁.