Can We Live Without Money? An Interview With Elia, Living Moneyless.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ส.ค. 2023
- Hi Friends! We recently hosted Elia ( / pirate.monk ) and his cousin, Laurie (of Laurie Shaw fame -- / laurieshaw ), who are doing a moneyless experiment to cross the US. Elia has been doing this for over a year! There was SO much I wanted to ask him, but we covered some fun ground and are excited to share it with you!
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The spiritual path is a way of life, not a yoga class or a simple meditation. It’s a whole lifestyle. I really I’m working towards getting there.
Agreed. That is our mission as well =)
We managed for thousands of years before the agricultural era. But in the modern world I don't believe it's possible. The society must either transform entirely, or crash and burn so that a new civilazation can begin.
It would certainly take great change, and our culture can feel like a juggernaut moving forward with such momentum. At the same time, change can happen slowly at times, with seeds that we might not even recognize. So I find myself wondering what tomorrow might hold =)
I would like to live this way, I have many skills that I could offer others in exchange for house and other necessities.
I think for me safety is the one thing that is paramount to me. However I’m realizing that people are dying early in life because of stress. Stress of having to make a living just to live. It’s so so unnatural. I’m not saying that we shouldn’t work, we should but it should be something we enjoy. Like if I spent the day making bracelets for someone in exchange for a cart of groceries then I would do it! Because I know the value of things and I think it’s a perfect way to live honestly.
I love that, Holly! We can often forget that "work", and the social structure we've created, is just something we humans made up. It's not the only way. I like your way better =)
What a trailblazer mindset to heal humanity 🕊 Thank you for showing this beautiful soul 🤍 Sending love from Australia.
It's really the old barter system. Instead of receiving "money" "cash to purchase food, pay rent....you receive goods, a place to sleep, a haircut etc in exchange for work you do. Basically comes down to the same thing we go to work and for that we receive money.
Amazing! Thank you all for this! I was adopted and have always felt a lot of what you said to be true… I find it hard for others to understand. You all expressed it perfectly! I would love to travel with you all!
For thousands of years, many people lived without money. Even today, when we hear statistics about people living on tiny amounts of money, that ignores that they are quite comfortable doing that because they don't need money. If a man has a large herd of cattle, even to the point where he pays dowries in cows, why would he need fiat currency? Real poverty is not having no money but lacking the spirit to strive to improve one's own lot in life.
Well said =)
@@ReWildUniversity Thank you =)
Also, I think the gift economy allows us to feel gratitude more, and the fulfilling feeling of giving and knowing our contribution really makes a difference.
Wow! Sooo much parallel to sooo many of my own ideas, thoughts, and musings on exchange, expectation, and attitudes. This brought sooo much to mind that even though I've been conscious of it in my own way, it enlarged and expanded things with new clarity, and talked about stuff in ways I had not considered before. Really refreshing, Kenton.
Strange how reluctant I was to watch it, being 'pre-trapped' in the same traps you both addressed in this video. Ironic, huh? In light of this, I just wanted to share something a friend of mine said years ago concerning survival. She said I'll be where ever I'm supposed to, and as such it really does not matter. Hard for me to understand such things then, but in my latter years it makes a lot more sense. Now, we have this awesome guy actually going around living the timeless truths of the ebbs and flows of give/take in the way that (like he says) of that larger 'accounting service' of Tao, God, The Universal consciousness, or whatever. Beautiful.
Agreed, John. I would have liked to have done hours of interview with him, as I think that the way he's living has SO many lessons for all of us. And he's continuing to learn and explore as well, as he finds his own way with these things. Was so wonderful to have him visit us =)
❤ One of my favorite subjects!! Thank you for introducing us to this beautiful soul!.
I have been married for 30 years and from the beginning we have not talked about money as yours or mine. We have always talked about it as what we have and what we need to pay the bills. I have an OK salary and my wife is due to her physical and psychological state a pensioner and have a very low income. That is a major impact of our life but I can't claim her of that and we have to live of what we together can get. I will not complain because we are living in the country side outside of Stockholm in Sweden and have the wonderful nature around us and a large property that we can have our chickens and grow a big part of our food. There are people that have it worse and live in apartments without possibility to grow anything but some small pots on the balcony. Money is just like oil in a machine, if it's there it runs smooth but when it's not there it starts to get harder to turn it around.. Love your fantastic videos that have totally focus on the mind and sole of the human being. Love from Sweden // Micke
Micke, that is so beautiful! Rebecca and I have been together around 30 years as well! And like you, we have always shared money. It just feels right to not divide it as "mine" and "hers". So fun to find someone doing the same! Sending you both love from Wisconsin, USA =)
This truly resonates with me on a derp level. Thank you 😊
Nice! This was a great interview! When I was in college I wanted to travel the world working my way as I went, not quite like what he is doing, but I did want to just do a walk about. Thank you for sharing! Much love!❤🙏
What an adventure that would have been! A good friend of mine who called himself "White Crow" went on such a wander -- just gave away everything that he couldn't fit in a backpack and off he went. So inspiring for me . . . =)
@@ReWildUniversity that is awesome and so inspiring to know people go on such adventures!😊
Interesting discussion. A different way of looking at value and exchange.
Wonderful discourse - thank you for sharing your views! It was mentioned that you receive more when you have less expectations - this resonated with me. There was a time where I didn't know if my bills would get paid each month but I just trusted that things were going as they should - I didn't care or worry about money - conceptually, I was done with it. Somehow each month I got just what I needed in ways that I could have never anticipated. I was living from my heart - much of society would not see value in the way I lived but the few people around me at the time would disagree. This is exactly why value cannot be decided by humans - not every aspect of life can be reduced to one's and zeros. I now use money but I don't chase it, hold on to it or think about it. It is just part of the flow of life but there is a deep unconscious attachment to it in society. This needs to be recognised and let go of in order for an infividual to not be corrupted by it.
I feel the biggest challenge for people to live in the ways discussed in this video are to be able to distill things down to what they really need, be content with enough and be grateful for the ability to give. When you have no expectations, anything beyond what you truly need is abundance and therefore a joy to share with the world. I'm sure you will inspire many on your travels. Thank you
" When you have no expectations, anything beyond what you truly need is abundance and therefore a joy to share with the world." What beautiful words. Thank you for sharing them!!! =)
this is insightful.
We humans naturally experiment with technology, including making up religions, political systems, and scientific models based around group problem solving. Money, grades, votes, reputation scores and other quantified competitive games are some of those experiments. As we continue experimenting with new religions, politics, and science we'll discover even better solutions to our collective needs, and soon, that will involve using AI and the internet to help us meet our needs using our needs, because, as Elia says, we have both input and output needs.
very inspiring! Thank you :-)
I’m currently looking for a new job so I really love this idea. Just by reframing it like that in my mind is huge. Thanks guys 🙏
Awesome! Sometimes freeing ourselves of a paradigm mentally even for a few moments can give us such clarity, even if we're not going to make the same shift physically. Excited to hear about your new job! =)
Daniel suelo lived without money for 15 years.he is known as man who quit money
If soil is your bank and food is your currency, humanity finds peace and there’s no more wars, tyranny, slavery, crime, greed, poverty, murder, genocide, corruption.
All human problems go away when you discard money.
If you disagree, it means you live In fear
Great interview! I would love to let go of everything but I love to travel via vehicle.
When kids are involved money is more important because we can skip meals and all that even for a few days but they need daily nutrition. If they get hurt, having a car to take them to the er is important. With so much evil in the world, it's not safe to hitchhike with kids. But for adults, sure it's a fun way of life and very rewarding. I miss my road days but there may be time for more of that at another stage in life.
Interesting Interview! A few thoughts that poped into my head were topics like: Firstly, what about the need for security? (Isn't this risky? What if you have children depending on you? Would you not want to have more assurance about the continuity of material support?)
Good questions! I wish Elia could chime in, but for me, things definitely shifted with having children. Although I'd also have to say that sometimes we can err too much on giving our children financial security and not enough on giving them emotional security. =)
Amazing video. I can’t imagine living without an income. From my spiritual path, I don’t believe that God (Yahweh, Yeshua, Ruah Hakodesh) ever wanted humans to have money. Money came into existence when humans freely chose to separate from God their creator, according to my beliefs.
I like that. It does feel like there is something deeply spiritual and powerful waiting for us if we, as humans, would choose to just trust and love rather than to always weigh value and create a sense of debt.
Hey just wanted to say to Kenton, Rebecca and Family ..I AM SO GLAD YOU ARE NOT ON MAUI OR IN HAWAII AT THIS TIME, But I am also very glad that you went there and experienced the natural beauty and amazing Hawaiian Culture ..I often watch a Hawaiian channel with a narrator who tells mysterious Hawaiian stories legends & folklore.. some paranormal.
It's hard to see the devastation of Maui as I have known several people over the years who moved there, no idea if they stayed on Maui or what!
I know -- so heartbreaking. And yes, what a beautiful place Hawaii is -- we hope to go back someday to visit =)
I was just thinking about how to live without money i like this guy
I like him too =)
❤❤❤❤❤
Thank you fr your video.
I'm working on the Economics of Time, a community owned "not for profit" worth and value of our time and energy based in "time" alone, backed by the abundance of the world, and built on a foundation of truth and reality.
It's just a paradigm shift and we are people of paradigm shifts when we are "allowed" to be.
Remember the paradigm shift from, "Man is cold", to "Man makes fire"?
No?
How about the paradigm shift from, "Man cannot fly", to "Man is on the Moon"?
It's just too bad that the paradigm shift from the childish win/lose mentality to a mature and wise Win/Win, and the model change from "for profit" to "not for profit", only exposes the afflicted to be perverted people and only "losers" are perverted people so our collective redemption will only be denied.
I'm NOT a brainwashed, "for profit" economic slave who only understands, worships, and practices childish games of win/lose to structure my every affair with as civilized, sane, wise, and honorable! I'm NORMAL!
Normal is the new retarded. And it's funny, but only the afflicted are offended.
Example.
My ability to be a good and decent person was severely retarded by the win/lose mentality and I'm not offended. There's no offense in the truth. There's no offense in accepting the truth either. It's the only way I can stop being retarded eh?
The Economics of Time.
In reality, the time and energy "spent" in production renders the product paid for.
Only greedy fools believe they can not only get the worth and value of their dead, stagnant, and non-evolving "spent" time and energy back, but it is now worth more than when created.
This is utter bullshit of course.
In reality, everything once created here in this dimension begins to corrupt in some form or fashion. Take food for instance, it turns to shit fast. But a well built house takes years to rot, but it all rots sooner or later.
Our new Economy of Time can only reflect reality and do the same by decreasing naturally and organically.
No one will hoard a worth and value that can only corrupt and in order to receive the full worth and value of the "time" you have to exchange, spend it now before it devalues.
Now here's the "profit".
Once the worth and value of your time and energy is spent and in circulation "working" in the community for the benefit of all, it stabilizes.
Stable is as good as it gets in reality.
Imagine "how" the abundance of the world transformed into the worth and value of our time and energy would compound annually until the future child was born rich instead of being born an ignorant economic slave as they are today.
In reality, everything we need for our lives and convenience can be calculated in the human time required for production and exchanged for equal amounts of all that time produces.
But doesn't that just stink of true equality?
No wonder the Powers that Be will never allow us to create such a new reality for our own children. A free world for free children.
Not saying we'd have the balls/ovaries or the brains to create such a new reality for the children, but it's nice to think about eh?
I'll just make sure the children understand who set them up to be fucked all their pitiless lives for the eternal and entitled "profits" of others.. Right?
As it is, today we allow our own precious children to be born "owing" an un payable debt of lies and corruption called "eternal growth and profit" here where nothing grows forever and "Profit" is a manmade concept not to be found in nature.
Plant a grain of Wheat and get 20 to 40 grains back. This is not profit, this is abundance and the lie of profit allows for the abundance of the world to be concentrated into the hands and control of the few, the elite, the entitled, and those great winners in a perverted world of childish win/lose.
One must identify the problem before anything can be done about "the problem". I tell people to not look in the mirror.
The hoarded abundance of the world is then used to control and direct the population of incestuous pedophiles who fuck their own children in such a manner.
Present company excluded of course.
Profit requires all your precious time, energy and belief to exist, .. and if you don't believe me, just ask Santa Claus eh?
There's a reason why innocent children are corrupted with filthy lies at a young age.
The diabolical evil genius of the win/lose paradigm is how easy it is to "program" into innocent children under constant threat of making a mistake, being wrong, failing, and being filthy losers themselves, that such self inflicted retardation as practicing childish games of win/lose to structure their lives with is somehow civilized, sane, wise, and honorable.
Anywho, I'm just running around planting the seeds of Win/Win in the dismal and depleted soil of the win/lose with the knowledge that failed human filth makes the best fertilizer.
Just don't be the best fertilizer.
The seeds are given freely and unconditionally, do with them as you will.
That alone makes the seeds and myself "suspect" in the minds of the perverted and I laugh and laugh. As if the opinions of the non-viable are important eh?
Keep up the great work and good luck.
Good to see you back reminding us of the possibility of win/win, and how invisible our own folly can be for our eyes. =)
I've actually had a surge of interest in gift economies recently. This kind of synchronicity is fun. If anyone is interested in more talks like this, I found Charles Eisenstein to have some interesting ideas on it as well especially in his book Sacred Economics. I initially wrote it off when a friend suggested it to me because of the title, but I shouldn't have been so quick to judge a book by its cover 😂
Nice! I've heard of him but haven't read his stuff. It is definitely an interesting concept. I've traditionally been someone who loves to give, but not to receive. It took a long time for me to realize that I was robbing others of the joy of giving. Often, I think we can see beyond the idea of "equal exchange" when we just enjoy the feeling of giving something, without expectation of anything in return. With Elia and Laurie, it was so fun to give to them, knowing that they were taking the energy of the food we shared with them, for instance, and taking it forward on their adventure to share with others through the medium of their stories, smiles, hugs, and insights. =)
I love this idear so much. Im always dreaming of living this way of living. Like trust in helping and sharing life. Inplace of compare and controle. I wish i could take the step to live totally without money. And live a live like him. I think it is difficult. To live in the Netherlands on this moment. I think it is difficult becose of rules like needing a paspoort needing what you must pay with a bank account.
Needing a health insurence. Its not a choice in the netherland to dont have it. And other wise you will seen as ilegal. End i think it is so weard to think that somebody is ilegal. But if i dont have anny paspoort are there plases where i not will seen like a iligal creature. So i think it is so inspiring to see he is living where im dreaming of.
Yes, very tricky with so many of these rules and regulations in many countries. We might imagine we are "free", but we actually live under a vast amount of restrictions, and when those restrictions prevent or hinder things like living creatively without money, then I think something precious is lost =)
society is in dire need of reform
You need to be young and willing to live rough; give up creature comforts.
A bit hard to listen to. I think planning the questions out before hand so its more of a story may help. Will watch your other videos, i like the subject.
Thanks for the feedback! Yes, we just went "full improv" on this one, lol! Thanks for checking out my other videos! You'll probably find them similarly unpolished, but hopefully you'll find value in the messages =)
No disrespect meant brother but exchanging work for goods is still money even if you want to call it a gift. Money doesnt have to be the typical paper just something of value. You really cant avoid such medium of exchange unless you do absolutely everything yourself lol
None taken! You're bringing up something interesting regarding the concept of money. Is barter "money"? And in a world where our money is usually not in the form of pieces of paper or chunks of gold, but rather in the 1's and 0's of digital records, is today's money "money"? I think the cool thing that Elia is doing is questioning the concept overall -- if you come over to my house and say you want to pull weeds in my garden, are we exchanging money? What about if we serve you a meal? What if you and I exchange some kind words? In the end, in my thought at least, money is a concept that we lay over the idea of exchange. And because most of us take it for granted as a necessary concept, it's difficult to see outside of it. Eventually, we may not be able to see any human exchange without trying to put value on it.
When something is so ingrained inside of us that we can't see outside of it, it begs us to wonder if we are seeing a reality, or just a current cultural paradigm that dominates our thoughts so strongly that we can no longer imagine reality without it.
Interesting to talk about! =)
@@ReWildUniversity very much so. It's moreso a discussion of opinion instead of facts but personally I'd consider any form of bartering or exchange to be money. This is why a moneyless society can never be achieved as there's always someone who needs something from someone else. A loaf of bread can be used exactly like a dollar bill there's no difference except one actually has intrinsic value and one has value because the state said so. Every human exchange has value but I get your point the goal is to get people to stop seeing in terms of $ and just work together.
@@ReWildUniversity I would perceive any kind of dependence on others through exchange of resources as a money exchange, as there is a clear equivalent and translatable money transaction in the act. I am personally much more interested in the ability of a person to live on their own, separate from the system, perhaps part of a smaller group of a commune or family, as long as that group is still independent of the current neoliberal economy as a whole.
Definitely -- that intrinsic value vs fiat value is a fun discussion. What is your take on things like human interaction -- trading smiles on the street with a stranger, or picking up something someone dropped and giving it back to them. Would you consider that to be an exchange, and thus money? Or is that something different? Thanks for the discussion!
@@ReWildUniversity very interesting. I'd consider even the basic act of smiling at someone to be money as it could be categorized with any non physical exchange such as talking to someone for therapy. I'd draw the line at any action that isn't "voluntary" though such as breathing. While I could see the argument for literally any human action that benefits another or that another desires to be considered money I'd say if you didnt have control over whether it occurs or not it can't be considered a valid exchange as you're not the one purposefully giving it nature is. Idk id that makes sense or not but lmao
I own 10 acres of woods that I live on in a small cabin I built. I hunt, fish, garden, raise quail and rabbits, and have fruit trees. I want for very little in this world materialistically.
But the dentist wont except a tanned deer hide to pull a tooth. The county expects my property taxes to be paid on time with cash every year. There are many things that can't be bartered in the world we live in. So, until the world is thrust back to the stone or iron age money is needed.
You're bridging the gap -- using money where you have to, but keeping the skills and knowledge from the non-money world. Well done!
Thanks. I can live on a couple of thousand a year, but I have to work so many hours to keep a job that I don't have time to do things that I need to do or become more self-reliant.@@ReWildUniversity
That's a tough one -- those jobs that kind of suck our souls, devouring so much of our time and energy. Is there a skill you have that you could use to create your own business or be self-employed in some way? I'm envisioning you taking people out to your land to learn how to set up a homestead, or something of that nature. Just thoughts =)
I let q busker/traveller live with me for 3 weeks and his presence was enough value! And he showed me new experiences and veiws on life.
Exactly! That is a great way to see value in more than money =) Way to go!
Man exists with or without money
YES.
Lofty ideas....but....the real world runs on cold hard cash...😮
of course we can.. and I would love to do it... if I would not be married I would already... I hate the modern system to exist and want to to live... a native once said... look before the white man came a man would wake up in the morning and decide maybe to make a bow or an arrow..but nobody told him this arrow has to be done by 10 a clock ...if he felt like naa I did enough he would maybe go hunting or fishing and get back to the arrow later...or he would wake up and say hey today I help my wife with scraping the hides ..or he would decide today I go and create some ruckus with the crow across the valley... then the white man came and honestly thought he could improve this way of live by telling us to buy things instead of making them telling us to work 10h a day to get some money to buy food instead of getting it our selfs during those 10 h
we need to get free again...
I like your words. Echoes of a time we've almost forgotten . . .
enjoy your youth but you are lucky that you have health, energy and that you are male, until one day you meet a psychopath that will want to take much more that you are willing to give... Money is for a protection. as very smart biblical writer wrote.
I think money gives you the illusion of protection. You can have all the money in the world but it doesn't protect you against your greatest fear which is death