I fully expect Ivey to be a better defender than Beasley or Hardaway this year. Ivey is much more likely to improve than two guys who have never been good defenders. Even Beasley struggled there in Milwaukee.
Okay Ku, some of my answers may surprise you as I’m sure you think I’m one of those Ivey Stans and Cade haters. But on most I agree with you. Most Underated-Tobias. He’s a very good, experienced vet and for some reason he gets trashed. Most Overrated-Ivey. I do believe that he has the potential but he has yet to put it on the court in a consistent manner, whether that is all on him or his usage doesn’t change the result: he hasn’t been what he is hyped. Hopefully that changes this season Best-Clearly Cade Worst-I haven’t seen all the new guys so just going with stats and saying Carter Funniest-no idea, I pay little attention to off court Most Annoying-I’ll agree, it’s the Ivey Stan’s, and I’ll even own it. We see the potential and what he’s shown in some opportunities, but he isn’t there yet or consistently for how far comments are taken. Most Potential-Easily Ausar. Cade’s ceiling may be close, but he has already realized a lot of that where Ausar is still mostly potential. With a handle and a 3 he would pass even Cade due to athleticism and defense. Best Rim Defender-I haven’t played much attention to Reed yet, so I’m going Stew. I really wish we had a clear, better answer here Most Athletic-Ausar Best Handle-Sasser is good, but I’m going Cade. Cade really improved his turnovers during the course of the season and does far more of his handling in traffic while also looking for assist opportunities. Best Shooter-I’m giving the edge to Beasley because he has done it consistently for so long and we only have a tiny sample size for Simone Best In Post-Tough. I wish there was a clear answer. I guess Tobias because he has been effective at if for many years. I really hope it is Duren by season’s end Best Role Player-Easily Stew. He has improved every year and is a solid option at the 4 or 5 Most Wasted Player-I can see your case for Cade. Having a bad team around his is wasting your best player. But, at least he was put into a role that fit and given an opportunity to show his potential. I think even you would say that Ivey was completely misused last season. To me that is a bigger waste of his talent than Cade. So, my answer here is Ivey.
Jalen Green guy really doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I haven’t seen any divide amongst the piston community on who’s the alpha of the team and just because fans like Ivey that doesn’t mean they hate Cade idk where he seen any of these things at. Us as fans just want to see cohesion amongst the team for once and for it to translate to winning basketball Detroit Pistons has always been about the team and not the player these guys don’t seem to realize that
@@86Sentraeven if that is true, it doesn’t mean that he’s not the leader of the team. It just means that he still has area he can improve to work better with his teammates.
@@alton0802 if this is the team wanting him gone you are specifically saying Gores wants him gone. Pretty much everyone else has been fired or their voice has lost prominence. Why would Gores want him gone and how is he controlling the media? Seems like a stretch to me. Why don’t we just wait and see how the new regime uses Ivey in the new season before throwing out conspiracy theories?
The most potential is Ivey. I believe Cade has a smaller ceiling. Ausar is second. Most over-rated is Cade, he's the number 1 pick, the captain of the team but never won more than 35 games. Mann, ya'll bias is clear.
Team win total is not an individual stat: the reason they don't win more is because Cade is the only good player on the whole fucking team. You're really stupid, huh? (Ivey sucks; we all hope that changes....or that he gets traded before everyone else finds out!)
Killian Hayes lover claims Jaden Ivey is overrated because piston fans believe he has just as high as a ceiling as Cade and he just doesn’t “see it” Yet puts Ausar Thompson in the same box as Cade for most potential and he’s the only one out of core to not make a rookie team at all, get a rising stars invite and also shoots 18% from 3 and 59% from ft line as a modern wing. The Jalen Green dude even compared him to a top 75 player all time in Kawhi Leonard that sounds like the overrated guy to me
@@Beastmode298I agree in which I believe that's a reflection of Cade leadership ultimately referencing the quote " to much is given, much is required". Most overrated - Cade Most underrated - Ausar Most potential - Ivey
@@wrongthinkpodcast2140he has already been a starter in the nba and likely will be in the future as well. Though you are right he is definitely bottom 400 in the NBA.
Paul Reed might push Isaiah Stewart for that best role player off the bench. He us going to bring that Jason Maxiell energy. Reed is a better rim protector
Only slightly better. He’s more agile but still undersized. Philly’s defense always got torched with him at center Stew is probably better as a weak side rim protector though. Play them together. Lean into a defensive lunch pail mentality where they just outwork opposing bench units.
@@MrTonyJ Blocks are just one part of rim protection and wildly overrated The majority of players become better rim protectors when they _STOP_ trying to block shots Reed is undersized and not as strong but that added agility allows him to mirror guards better and recover quicker to contest (and block) more shots which makes him a better drop defender even if neither is particularly good at it
@@scottwickett1273 you’re comment right there says a lot. Monty literally started the man on the bench, when he was our best player the year before, Cade was hurt. His talent is undeniable, already proven. Also insane he gets a bad rep for shooting when he was only a couple percentage points from average, only see that going up. He’s at straight up the fastest on our team, and people act like that doesn’t mean a ton in the nba. Speed kills defenses, people don’t have time to help
@@drakematheny2915 I mean, you're saying he was the best player on a 17-win team; that's a pretty low bar, right? It doesn't necessarily mean he was actually good at any point. He also is a bad player because he can't guard you.
@@scottwickett1273 Cade and Ausar (Ku's preferred backcourt of the future) then joined that 17 win team, with Cade taking Ivey's role as lead guard. Cade then led that team to.... 14 wins. Cade also cant guard anybody.
The Pistons depth is real! The upside is real! The coach is motivated with a huge chip on his shoulder! No excuses for this team to win only 20 games this year. 20 wins in this East SUCKS.. Pistons better be close to or north of 30 wins if we want to feel any real change this year in terms of our future!
The upside is real but the depth is absolutely atrocious. Tobias Harris is the second best player, Ausar will for sure have a role in the NBA, but outside of Cade the jury is still out on the whole team. 28 wins would be a great season for them.
@@Shortballa11 He is better than every single one of his teammates except Cade, which says more about those teammates (and especially about Troy Weaver, the very worst GM in NBA history) than it does about Stew.
@@scottwickett1273 I’d disagree. From last years roster I’d take Ausar for sure. Ivey and Duren do things better than Stew bt yes agreed last season he played better Than them
Im not low on cade or Ivey reason why there tandem as stars is almost their they both improved this season trust me we want go with out the both of them
Cade is _going_ to be All-NBA. The question is does he have first team All-NBA, top 5 MVP potential Holland has All-NBA potential. If things go right he he should basically be Jaylen Brown Duren will likely be an All-Star at least once. All-NBA will be tough but not impossible. His potential is Amar’e Stoudemire 2.0 with better defense and passing Ivey probably has more potential than any of them. His first step is right up there with anyone in the NBA. Idk if he can put it all together but if he does you’re looking at 2018 Victor Oladipo but more playmaking
I don't think we can place potential on Holland until we see him on an NBA floor. He could be the worst out of this whole group. Duren has fringe all star potential depending on his pick and roll partner, similar to DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler/Andre Drummond all star years. Ausar perennial has all star potential, but its definitely more likely he gets an Andrew Wiggins/Andre Igoudala fringe all star year.
@@bkelly625 Of course it's more realistic. You just listed the most likely outcome. Potential isn't probability, it's what a player _could_ be if everything clicks. It's inherently the most optimistic viewpoint. The best case scenario. (Within reason.)
@@michaelahurt Holland is a question mark in a questionable draft. It's more likely he is out the league in 3 years than all nba. Ausar easily has the next best potential of the group. Agree with Duren. Ivey is more likely to become Victor after the injury than before the injury. He just doesnt have enough ball control
Do better, fellas. Grow up. And no, this isn't coming from an IVEY STAN. This is coming from a PISTONS fan. Zariq, do you know who creates the divide amongst some fans? YALL DO. You stated perfectly after the fact. You don't have to pit these players against each other. It's real lame. Cade vs. Ivey. Duren vs. Stew. Ausar vs. Cade. It's silly. Ku, for a guy that complained about his 9-5 and how badly he wants to get more involved in media. You have a lot of maturing to do. It's becoming less about your criticism and more about the negative energy and unprofessionalism you bring lately. I recall when JE III was on last time, and he mentioned some issues yall had in the beginning, and it spoke volumes of the character you showed. I remember one guy stating it perfectly. "You like to throw stones and hide your hands." Chuckle and giggle like it's everybody and not you. Grow up. Be better. You're too old for that. This is coming from someone who wants to see you reach your goals. No, fans do not always agree on everything, but a trend I'm seeing with you is that you are too stubborn to truly accept that. Rather, it's your opinion on Ivey, Duren, Ausar, or Cade. Its almost like your begging for ones that disagree with you to agree with you and see it your way. I'm a Pistons fan, so I want to see all these guys do good from the young guys to the vets.
@@GeFarr you have to build a team to cover all his weaknesses and I don’t think the upside is high enough to do that. I am still higher on him than most but I see him as a bench piece.
@@obi3924I’m not sure how you can say this about the 3 when he was on a team with Ray Allen. Rondo just wasn’t a scorer at all and didn’t need to be on that Celtics team.
@@cordelldemattei5446 What does him playing with Ray Allen, who arguabley the best 3 point shooter ever at the time, have to do with my point that 3 pt shooting wasn’t as heavily utilized as today?
@@jonr9659 The list of players with more total blocks than Duren last season also includes James Harden, John Konchar, and Tyrese Haliburton, among others. It's dire. (Stew is not overrated, he's one of the very few serviceable players they've got.)
@@scottwickett1273 using total blocks is disingenuous but his effort level clearly waned for large stretches last year and he’s a guy who isn’t going to block shots in drop coverage Stew does get overrated though because people talk about him like he’s a starter when he’s just a role player. And probably a situational one. He was _was_ one of the few reliable players they had last year. (Although he still graded out as replacement level or worse)
Soon as i hear this isn't a knock or shade against ivey.... knocking and shade follows right after
Yup, it's crazy
Media agenda
I fully expect Ivey to be a better defender than Beasley or Hardaway this year. Ivey is much more likely to improve than two guys who have never been good defenders. Even Beasley struggled there in Milwaukee.
Ivey has the talent. He needs a coach who believes in him, the opposite of Monty Williams.
@@yahisthoth9182Ivey is 1 of the worst players on the NBA
Yes Beasley has always been a terrible defender, or someone would have paid him to stick around by now.
@@wrongthinkpodcast2140definitely bottom 400
That is not a high bar, but something to definitely strive for. If he isn’t it will be quite worrisome.
Really really surprised that neither of you even mentioned fontecchio in the underrated category
Okay Ku, some of my answers may surprise you as I’m sure you think I’m one of those Ivey Stans and Cade haters. But on most I agree with you.
Most Underated-Tobias. He’s a very good, experienced vet and for some reason he gets trashed.
Most Overrated-Ivey. I do believe that he has the potential but he has yet to put it on the court in a consistent manner, whether that is all on him or his usage doesn’t change the result: he hasn’t been what he is hyped. Hopefully that changes this season
Best-Clearly Cade
Worst-I haven’t seen all the new guys so just going with stats and saying Carter
Funniest-no idea, I pay little attention to off court
Most Annoying-I’ll agree, it’s the Ivey Stan’s, and I’ll even own it. We see the potential and what he’s shown in some opportunities, but he isn’t there yet or consistently for how far comments are taken.
Most Potential-Easily Ausar. Cade’s ceiling may be close, but he has already realized a lot of that where Ausar is still mostly potential. With a handle and a 3 he would pass even Cade due to athleticism and defense.
Best Rim Defender-I haven’t played much attention to Reed yet, so I’m going Stew. I really wish we had a clear, better answer here
Most Athletic-Ausar
Best Handle-Sasser is good, but I’m going Cade. Cade really improved his turnovers during the course of the season and does far more of his handling in traffic while also looking for assist opportunities.
Best Shooter-I’m giving the edge to Beasley because he has done it consistently for so long and we only have a tiny sample size for Simone
Best In Post-Tough. I wish there was a clear answer. I guess Tobias because he has been effective at if for many years. I really hope it is Duren by season’s end
Best Role Player-Easily Stew. He has improved every year and is a solid option at the 4 or 5
Most Wasted Player-I can see your case for Cade. Having a bad team around his is wasting your best player. But, at least he was put into a role that fit and given an opportunity to show his potential. I think even you would say that Ivey was completely misused last season. To me that is a bigger waste of his talent than Cade. So, my answer here is Ivey.
This was a fun episode enjoyed it.
Jalen Green guy really doesn’t know what he’s talking about. I haven’t seen any divide amongst the piston community on who’s the alpha of the team and just because fans like Ivey that doesn’t mean they hate Cade idk where he seen any of these things at. Us as fans just want to see cohesion amongst the team for once and for it to translate to winning basketball Detroit Pistons has always been about the team and not the player these guys don’t seem to realize that
That’s not true. A lot of hardcore fans don’t think cade pushes the pace or facilitate well tho that’s not accurate.
😂
@@86Sentraeven if that is true, it doesn’t mean that he’s not the leader of the team. It just means that he still has area he can improve to work better with his teammates.
It’s a media agenda to not pay 23 and get him outta here. It’s done on every team when they want a specific player gone.
@@alton0802 if this is the team wanting him gone you are specifically saying Gores wants him gone. Pretty much everyone else has been fired or their voice has lost prominence. Why would Gores want him gone and how is he controlling the media? Seems like a stretch to me. Why don’t we just wait and see how the new regime uses Ivey in the new season before throwing out conspiracy theories?
Weaver punted last year and it was horrible. He was not a good GM.
He was in fact the very worst GM in the entire history of the sport.
The most potential is Ivey. I believe Cade has a smaller ceiling. Ausar is second. Most over-rated is Cade, he's the number 1 pick, the captain of the team but never won more than 35 games. Mann, ya'll bias is clear.
Team win total is not an individual stat: the reason they don't win more is because Cade is the only good player on the whole fucking team.
You're really stupid, huh?
(Ivey sucks; we all hope that changes....or that he gets traded before everyone else finds out!)
Ausar,Holland and of course Cade....
It’s crazy how You have anything against Ivey when you were a Killin Me Haze fan.
Dawg on some Liteskin 💩 100% of the Time but I enjoy the Content 😂
Jaden Ivey is 🗑 🚮 🗑 🚮
Disliking one guy has nothing to do with liking another.
In terms of humor there is no John Salley or Rasheed Wallace on this team is there? Has to be Tobias. That role is under rated for chemistry.
Look out for Bobbi Klintman. He may have the most potential. Also Ron Holland
Killian Hayes lover claims Jaden Ivey is overrated because piston fans believe he has just as high as a ceiling as Cade and he just doesn’t “see it”
Yet puts Ausar Thompson in the same box as Cade for most potential and he’s the only one out of core to not make a rookie team at all, get a rising stars invite and also shoots 18% from 3 and 59% from ft line as a modern wing. The Jalen Green dude even compared him to a top 75 player all time in Kawhi Leonard that sounds like the overrated guy to me
Jaden Ivey, is 1 of the worst basketball players in the NBA!! He will never be a starter in the NBA
The truth is that all of our players are trash until they start winning
@@Beastmode298I agree in which I believe that's a reflection of Cade leadership ultimately referencing the quote " to much is given, much is required".
Most overrated - Cade
Most underrated - Ausar
Most potential - Ivey
@@philosoqhy You're just a fucking idiot, though: there is nothing here to lead. The team is too shitty.
@@wrongthinkpodcast2140he has already been a starter in the nba and likely will be in the future as well. Though you are right he is definitely bottom 400 in the NBA.
Paul Reed might push Isaiah Stewart for that best role player off the bench. He us going to bring that Jason Maxiell energy. Reed is a better rim protector
Stew should start; I do agree that Reed should definitely play, as he is better than Duren just like Stew is.
Only slightly better. He’s more agile but still undersized. Philly’s defense always got torched with him at center
Stew is probably better as a weak side rim protector though.
Play them together. Lean into a defensive lunch pail mentality where they just outwork opposing bench units.
@@michaelahurt his block numbers as a starter were higher than Stew’s ever were in the same minutes.
@@michaelahurt but he is undersized and not as strong as Stew.
@@MrTonyJ Blocks are just one part of rim protection and wildly overrated
The majority of players become better rim protectors when they _STOP_ trying to block shots
Reed is undersized and not as strong but that added agility allows him to mirror guards better and recover quicker to contest (and block) more shots which makes him a better drop defender even if neither is particularly good at it
Ivey has consistently been the most underrated and y’all put him most overrated, that’s wild
Wait, wut? How in fuck is he underrated?!?!?
@@scottwickett1273 you’re comment right there says a lot. Monty literally started the man on the bench, when he was our best player the year before, Cade was hurt. His talent is undeniable, already proven. Also insane he gets a bad rep for shooting when he was only a couple percentage points from average, only see that going up. He’s at straight up the fastest on our team, and people act like that doesn’t mean a ton in the nba. Speed kills defenses, people don’t have time to help
Also most consistent at getting to the line, speed has a lot to do with that too
@@drakematheny2915 I mean, you're saying he was the best player on a 17-win team; that's a pretty low bar, right? It doesn't necessarily mean he was actually good at any point.
He also is a bad player because he can't guard you.
@@scottwickett1273 Cade and Ausar (Ku's preferred backcourt of the future) then joined that 17 win team, with Cade taking Ivey's role as lead guard. Cade then led that team to.... 14 wins.
Cade also cant guard anybody.
The Pistons depth is real! The upside is real! The coach is motivated with a huge chip on his shoulder! No excuses for this team to win only 20 games this year. 20 wins in this East SUCKS.. Pistons better be close to or north of 30 wins if we want to feel any real change this year in terms of our future!
The upside is real but the depth is absolutely atrocious. Tobias Harris is the second best player, Ausar will for sure have a role in the NBA, but outside of Cade the jury is still out on the whole team. 28 wins would be a great season for them.
@@Shortballa11 Stew is the second-best player, but I agree with everything else!
@@scottwickett1273 nah that’s crazy Stew is the most experienced of the young guys bt he’s still so limited
@@Shortballa11 He is better than every single one of his teammates except Cade, which says more about those teammates (and especially about Troy Weaver, the very worst GM in NBA history) than it does about Stew.
@@scottwickett1273 I’d disagree. From last years roster I’d take Ausar for sure. Ivey and Duren do things better than Stew bt yes agreed last season he played better Than them
Im not low on cade or Ivey reason why there tandem as stars is almost their they both improved this season trust me we want go with out the both of them
All-NBA potential- Cade
Fringe All-Star potential- Ausar, Holland
High level starter potential- Ivey, Duren
Bench contributor- Stewart, Sasser, Klintman
Cade is _going_ to be All-NBA. The question is does he have first team All-NBA, top 5 MVP potential
Holland has All-NBA potential. If things go right he he should basically be Jaylen Brown
Duren will likely be an All-Star at least once. All-NBA will be tough but not impossible. His potential is Amar’e Stoudemire 2.0 with better defense and passing
Ivey probably has more potential than any of them. His first step is right up there with anyone in the NBA. Idk if he can put it all together but if he does you’re looking at 2018 Victor Oladipo but more playmaking
@@michaelahurt I appreciate the optimism but I believe my list is more realistic
I don't think we can place potential on Holland until we see him on an NBA floor. He could be the worst out of this whole group. Duren has fringe all star potential depending on his pick and roll partner, similar to DeAndre Jordan/Tyson Chandler/Andre Drummond all star years. Ausar perennial has all star potential, but its definitely more likely he gets an Andrew Wiggins/Andre Igoudala fringe all star year.
@@bkelly625 Of course it's more realistic. You just listed the most likely outcome.
Potential isn't probability, it's what a player _could_ be if everything clicks. It's inherently the most optimistic viewpoint. The best case scenario. (Within reason.)
@@michaelahurt Holland is a question mark in a questionable draft. It's more likely he is out the league in 3 years than all nba. Ausar easily has the next best potential of the group. Agree with Duren. Ivey is more likely to become Victor after the injury than before the injury. He just doesnt have enough ball control
Do better, fellas. Grow up. And no, this isn't coming from an IVEY STAN. This is coming from a PISTONS fan. Zariq, do you know who creates the divide amongst some fans? YALL DO. You stated perfectly after the fact. You don't have to pit these players against each other. It's real lame. Cade vs. Ivey. Duren vs. Stew. Ausar vs. Cade. It's silly. Ku, for a guy that complained about his 9-5 and how badly he wants to get more involved in media. You have a lot of maturing to do. It's becoming less about your criticism and more about the negative energy and unprofessionalism you bring lately. I recall when JE III was on last time, and he mentioned some issues yall had in the beginning, and it spoke volumes of the character you showed. I remember one guy stating it perfectly. "You like to throw stones and hide your hands." Chuckle and giggle like it's everybody and not you. Grow up. Be better. You're too old for that. This is coming from someone who wants to see you reach your goals. No, fans do not always agree on everything, but a trend I'm seeing with you is that you are too stubborn to truly accept that. Rather, it's your opinion on Ivey, Duren, Ausar, or Cade. Its almost like your begging for ones that disagree with you to agree with you and see it your way. I'm a Pistons fan, so I want to see all these guys do good from the young guys to the vets.
Respectfully
@@LockedOnPistons Lmfao.
Best player is Cade but he’s also the most overrated. We want a star so bad in Detroit we get kinda blinded. Most potential is Ron.
Overrated? Really?
Ron holland is dwade 2.0
I think Ausar is a lot more similar to Wade than Holland is, and both Pistons kids are also a lot taller.
Highest Potential rankings…
1. Cade
2. Asuar
3. Duren
4. Ivey
4. Holland
5. Klintman
6. Stew
7. Paul Reed
8. Marcus Sasser
Sasser at the bottom...Your fucking trippin !!
They're casuals
@@GeFarr undersized shooter who can handle and defend smaller guys. He is a good player but no chance he becomes a star or high level role player.
@@MrTonyJ I think in the right situation he could be a REALLY good player...
@@GeFarr you have to build a team to cover all his weaknesses and I don’t think the upside is high enough to do that. I am still higher on him than most but I see him as a bench piece.
What has Tobias proven in his career? 😂😂😂 he’s the most inconsistent “star” we’ve had switch him n Ivey then u could make a lil sense
Ivey sucks too.
@@scottwickett1273 would u rather have someone that prove they suck or someone who prove they don’t wanna suck
Bobi is better passer than Ausar
Ausar has the best vision on the team.
Bobi probably makes quicker decisions though
That's not true, and in fact is really fucking stupid.
Remember how Prime Rondo could fill the stat sheets without a three point shot and only 6'1
Prime Rondo played in an era before 3 pt shooting was as heavily utilized as it today. Rondo is also one of the smartest basketball players ever
@@obi3924I’m not sure how you can say this about the 3 when he was on a team with Ray Allen. Rondo just wasn’t a scorer at all and didn’t need to be on that Celtics team.
@@cordelldemattei5446 What does him playing with Ray Allen, who arguabley the best 3 point shooter ever at the time, have to do with my point that 3 pt shooting wasn’t as heavily utilized as today?
@@obi3924 it shows that they did utilize the three pointer at a high rate. Rondo was just not a scorer from any distance, and didn’t need to be.
1. Cade
2. Duren
3. Ausar
4. Ivey
5. Sasser
Lmao @ Sasser being on this list.
@@scottwickett1273what is this list?
@@cordelldemattei5446 I assume it's "has the most potential on the current roster", like it says in the title.
@@scottwickett1273 if that’s it, Sasser is not top 5
@@cordelldemattei5446 Hence my sarcastic cackling!
Cade annoys me most.
?????
Most overrated is def duren or stew
You literally on the episode said ausar had more blocks than duren that’s sad
@@jonr9659 The list of players with more total blocks than Duren last season also includes James Harden, John Konchar, and Tyrese Haliburton, among others. It's dire.
(Stew is not overrated, he's one of the very few serviceable players they've got.)
@@scottwickett1273 using total blocks is disingenuous but his effort level clearly waned for large stretches last year and he’s a guy who isn’t going to block shots in drop coverage
Stew does get overrated though because people talk about him like he’s a starter when he’s just a role player. And probably a situational one.
He was _was_ one of the few reliable players they had last year. (Although he still graded out as replacement level or worse)
@@michaelahurt Stew is a starter on THIS team because he is better than all of his teammates except Cade.
@@scottwickett1273 you literally just overrated tf out of him 🤦🏾♂️