ไม่สามารถเล่นวิดีโอนี้
ขออภัยในความไม่สะดวก
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 ก.ย. 2017
- Im trying to use ice bottles that I can keep in my freezer ready to go at anytime so I will always have ice for my coolers. Im testing to see if a salt solution water will stay frozen longer that tap water. I know the salt ice bottles are colder and take longer to freeze. but being colder is not always better. I need it to last.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.79[2/2] มานั่งฮ้านกินข้าวนำกันเด้ออ้ายยย](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pHIS_Sdy8P8/mqdefault.jpg)
Just because it's in liquid form doesn't mean it's warmer. Like the gel packs. They can get below 32 degrees and still be soft. A more accurate thing to do would be to test the actual temperature of the contents of each bottle, not the physical states.
that's what I was thinking also. Use 2 coolers and check the temperatures of each cooler. If the salt water in the cooler does keep it colder, then it should take longer to melt also.
Gel packs are different chemistry. Water, if moving, can be down to 30 F (negative 1c, I think...my conversions were long ago). Still it can be 31 at lowest. Alcohols used in gel packs is liquid state at lower temps. And now I want to try homemade gel packs, dammit. I’ve things to do!
I guess both water and salt water have the same energy output, just salt water is releasing its energy faster being in the melted state sooner. The best thing would be to make your freezer as cold as possible 24 hours before you need the bottles for the cooler. This way the ice is coldest and can have the most cooling energy.
I don’t think there is such a thing as colder or warmer ice. It seems to me that for the same reason that salt water requires a lower temperature in order to freeze (the salt content impeding the normal rate of freezing water), the salt water radiates more cold outward (freezing nearby objects) and returns to a liquid state faster because, when stored at room temperature, the salt water cannot sustain its solid state for as long as the pure water can.
@@lisettegarcia I've been looking further into this since my first response and it seems right that water and salt water have the same energy output when they are the same temperature. The points you made about this all make sense but some people can have colder or warmer ice depending on the time. Adding salt lowers the freezing point and water still in liquid state is absorbing cold faster. Most people doing testing place the bottles into a freezer overnight and look for results the next day. The salt water always wins in a short freezer test if the bottles are big enough to not fully freeze to the same temperature. Put both in a freezer for a week and eventually everything is the same temperature so for sure no such thing as warm and cold ice and they same energy output!
The advantages of having potable water after it melts, far outweigh the tiny advantage in cooling of salt water.
And realize the science i Tells you completely opposite and there's no logic to any of thiss
William this guy has no idea what hes talking about
I use the gel out of the freezer packs and pour it into the Powerade bottles to do the same thing you do when hunting. Powerade/Gatorade bottles are much more durable than the thin plastic bags the gel comes in. So if you have any cheap plastic freezer packs, gel works much better in the bottles than water.
The salt lowers the required temperature for the water to "phase change"........ Meaning the water has to be colder than 32 degrees to change into a solid........ Both bottles could be at 30 degrees and the salted one will not be a solid.......that's why northern cities spread salt on icey roads...... So the ice turns into a liquid ( melts) sooner than waiting for the weather to get to 33 degrees for natural melting. So the melt time isn't really an accurate test of the temperature of your bottle or what cooling affect it adds to your cooler. It's a psychological thing as humans think liquid water must be warmer than 32 degrees...... Not true when salt is present
Steve Nimmer I think you can make the gel at home with a few basic ingredients
I'd make sure to pull the labels off and mark up some warning on the bottle, otherwise some kid might think they are drinking a blue Powerade.
@@marka7519 heat shrink /hot glue the lid closed
@@xtspin6141 sounds good! BTW, I've had a few Powerade bottles in the freezer for about 6 months now, they are great. And the zero sugar Powerade is the only no calorie drink I like, besides water and tea, so everybody stock up on those!
Use the frozen salt water to pre-cool your coolers over night. The colder you get your cooler before packing it with everything the longer it will stay cool.
Good advice 👍
Why not use salt ice for all of the ice needs.?
Thanks for the tip
The saltwater doesn't get colder. Just because it requires longer or colder to freeze doesn't mean the Straightwater isn't just as cold After the same amount of time
I have used frozen water bottles for decades. It serves two purposes, a coolant and drinking water. As the ice melts, you can drink the water. Once I placed several liter bottles in my front ice chest on my bass boat and they froze the cokes I put in it. I now use smaller water bottles to keep my food and drinks cold and to provide water in a pinch!
Thank you for solving this question for me. I go camping a lot and I use the melted ice water to brush my teeth, wash my hair or simply to drink. I obviously can not do that with saltwater. I appreciate you making this video.
As I understand, saltwater still is really cold even in a liquid state and it takes longer to heat up, as opposed to freshwater staying frozen longer but when it melts it heats up much quicker. So the real question is even though it's in a liquid state, does it change the temperature in the cooler significantly?
Since frozen saltwater tends to freeze other things in direct contact with it, but salt tends to melt ice into a cold liquid state, it may be worth to experiment using both a saltwater ice bottle in direct contact with a fresh water ice bottle and see if it extends the life of the freshwater ice but since the. I'm just speculating, I have no idea if that would or wouldn't work nor am i too savy on the science principle except at a basic level.
"Ice" is relative.. it should be temperature used. The melted salt water may be colder than the ice fresh water because they have different liquid,solid temperature.
A Venezuelan here watching the video, I was searching how to make ice last longer and that lead me to this video. It saved me time and resources as less than 2 weeks ago we suffered an electricity/communication blackout (the whole country) and there was not even water supply (many Venezuelans are still without either). So, to me it wasn't stupid, it was clear and helped me. I'm going to go with just fresh water as I can drink it or use it after all.
Thanks.
Hope everything goes better in Venezuela soon, sending prayers your way.
I really appreciate this experiment! I know yall are concerned about whether the contents inside the bottle is liquid or solid (ice) but remember the salty water can still be well below 32F and be completely liquid depending on the amount of dissolved salt. The only way to test this I think is to put a (remote) thermometer in a cooler with each one and see how long it takes each one to get past it's melting point, so you could see how long it takes a prechilled cooler to get from say 28F to 36F and see if there is a time difference. The cooling action mostly comes from the BTUs absorbed (latent heat of melting) during the change of state (melting) which is 144 BTUs per pound (for pure water). If the ice is below 32F or water is above 32 it's only 1 BTU per pound for each (1) degree F. I don't know if the salt water freezing and melting at a lower temp contains more overall BTU capacity or not. I think the soft gel packs just expand less so there's less chance of rupture and making a mess, but I could be wrong. It would be very interesting to see if salt or glycol or something else requires more latent heat of fusion/melting than water's 144 BTU/lb regardless of melting temperature. Thanks for the video, was really cool!
I prime my cooler prior to going on a trip. I put frozen gallon jugs in the cooler. It’s the same premise as adding hot water or boiling water to your thermos before you go and put your favorite hot beverage in it. If you put a hot beverage into a cool thermos it will take away some of the liquids heat. So I prime my cooler the same way! I hope this helps y’all.
Fresh water... that way you can drink them as they melt... WINNING!
That's what I was going to say :) We always freeze our water bottles and use them for the cooler. Keeps food cold and we have cold drinks.
Good theory but unless you have enough water- water gone and food gets warm.
Can freezing water in "regular" water bottles cause chemical leaching from the bottles?
Molon Labe Doesn’t leach happen in heat?
Salt water won, who wants to drink 40 degree beer.
Well ya salt lowers the melting point so it will melt first but you need to do it in a cooler and and check the temperature because that salt water is still colder than the fresh water
BINGO :-]
Not a stupid video, it was verry helpful. When camping you need coldness for a longer time not super cold for a short time. A bonus of the plain water when it melts, you can drink it. Thanks for your efforts!!
For many years I have used salt water bottles for coolers. I use a very heavy salt to water solution. I add a bag of ice to cooler as well and my experience has been that they are colder and last longer they also froze the ice around them. As a side note I freeze them in a chest freezer much colder than your fridge freezer..
Yes, I do the same; chest freezers are (usually) set to about -10 degrees (deep freeze), vs 0-10 degrees for a fridge/ freezer. Doesn't seem like a big difference, but if you read about long term frozen storage, the recommendation for storing "frozen" foods is 2-3 months in a fridge/ freezer, vs 1 year+ for a "deep" freezer. Fridge/ freezer is designed for short term storage and ease of thawing food that is rotated/ used on a regular basis :)
The °F scale is based off of equal parts water and salt. So if you make that ratio then it freezes at 0°F.
Water is life, salt water will make you ill.
If your packing, then pack to survive if things go wrong.
A very good test though for short term day weekend trip packing.
I'm thinking of trying a mixture of both. 25% salt water bottles to get that super lower temp and 75% regular for longevity. Thank you for the content!
If you put salt on your hand and put ice on it you can get frostbite because the water is still cold. The question is the liquid still cold. Liquid nitrogin freezes stuff on contact since its cold but is still a liquid. At room temprature it becomes gas. So even though it melted is it still cold
Been using the smaller Powerade bottles for over a year but I added food coloring just for the fun of it.
Thank you so much for doing this "stupid video" as you called it. I have been trying to figure out the answer of which one last longer for about an hour, and you're the first video that's actually given me the answer. So very grateful 👍
Getn Lost - Thanks for the test and the time you spent on it. I found it very interesting. Many comments left me confused, but the test and the video are greatly appreciated....by me and, clearly, by many others. Thanks for a vid that made me think a bit.
Frozen salt water will absorb more heat energy than it’s similar volume of fresh water. That is why old fashion crank ice cream makers have you add rock salt to the ice in the outer tub. This is also why “ice packs “ and chilling machinery will use a salt water brine or other liquid instead of fresh water
HOWEVER, you have to be careful about having that salt water contaminate what ever it is your trying to keep cool. Clearly reused water bottles do not have as perfect seal as unused weather bottles.
Another thing to consider it this... even if you use frozen water bottles (fresh or salty) you still need a conductive medium between it and whatever it is your trying to cool. Ice melts and the water becomes that conductive medium more effectively than air. Also bottles have the plastic itself that becomes a barrier. Just something to consider
The water in the salted bottle is still colder than the ice in the fresh water bottle. Salt water takes longer to freeze and it's colder when it melts. That's why you add salt to an ice cream churn to melt the ice at a colder temp
I use a combination of salt ice and regular ice in my bottles using a Rubbermaid chest for work. I use the smaller 20oz powerade bottles so I can get more water bottles in my cooler. But I live in Phoenix, and when it is 120+ outside. I'm just grateful I have cold water throughout my day. They are melted by 6pm but the water is still cold and I cycle out the melted bottles with frozen each morning
How about you use both? You can freeze things and still have it cold when the salt ice melts
SMART! The salted colder ice slows the melting of the 'non' salted ice by being cooler and the non-salted ice will last even longer. VERY SMART!!!
Thanks for this. Salt=colder. No salt=lasts longer. Good info
Great video the salt water freezes at a lower temp but melts at a higher temp so chills the surrounds faster good if you want to cool down fresh meat or fish two bottles from the same freezer will be the same temperature the pure water will last longer if you used a few salt bottles they would extend the life of the pure water ones that is how yeti cooler bricks work with regular ice regards mike
If you have a cooler filled with ice and you put in bottles/containers of frozen saltwater you can keep the ice frozen for longer.
What happens is the saltwater ice will melt first (at around 28°F). As it melts it needs to draw energy from the regular water ice in order to break the bonds and turn into a liquid.
As it does this it lowers the temperature of the regular ice and thus the regular ice will stay frozen for longer than it otherwise would have.
In effect you are sacrificing the saltwater ice and letting it melt first in order to make the regular ice last longer.
What make ice effective is not the specific temperature, it's the phase change. To raise 1 gram of water by 1 degree C take one Kalorie (spelled with a K), but it takes many, many times that amount of heat to raise 1 gram of water from a frozen 32F to a liquid 32F. It's called the Latent heat effect. The effect is very large, over a 100 times the energy required to change phase. This is how evaporative cooling works and this is why steam is such a good cleaner. It is why water will sit right at 212 for many minutes before coming to a boil (the phase change from liquid to steam).
tarstarkusz I honestly do not know if phase change is an important factor in cooling the other contents in a cooler, so take this question with a grain of salt, if you will. How does the phase change affect the cooling effect of frozen liquid inside a container (bottle) that is inside another container (cooler) surrounded by other items? I would assume (correctly or not) that the much larger thermal mass of a frozen salt water liquid in a same sized bottle would produce much more cooling effect, because of its larger thermal mass, compared to just H2O in the same bottle. What am I missing?
The reason ice is so effective at keeping a cooler cool is that it has to absorb an enormous amount of energy before it melts. This is why a jar of 32F water will not have the same cooling effect as the same jar with 32F ice in it. Whether or not it is in a bottle or just laying on the floor of the cooler makes no difference. Heat gets into the cooler and that heat needs to be absorbed by something. The beautiful thing about latent heat is that the ice (not water) can absorb an enormous amount of heat without actually dropping in temperature (the phase change comes first)
The cooler construction will help because it will keep out the heat that the ice absorbs. The better insulated the cooler is, the more effective ANY cooling system will be.
Salt water has a lower melting temperature. Also, whatever % of the water is salt, is displacing water. Salt does not experience a phase change and does not have latent heat. Salt water, when it is frozen will keep the cooler colder, but probably not any longer than regular ice. To get a large effect you need to use a lot of salt and that salt takes up room in the jar. Also, the ice is going be at the same temperature as the freezer. If your freezer is set at 28f, adding salt will not magically make it get colder. It is perfectly possible to have 28F ice, but that ice will quickly reach 32F, but it will sit at 32 and remain solid until all of the latent heat effect's heat is absorbed and the ice begins to melt. This will simply happen at a lower temperature for salt-water.
You may want to google latent heat effect.
When using ice packs to keep things cool in a cooler, the freezing point of the liquid in those packs is the temperature at which the pack will spend most of the time, for the reason "tarstarkusz" already explained. The heat required to melt ice ("latent heat of fusion") is about 140 times the amount of heat required to increase the temp of that same ice from 30°F to 31°F. So if an ice pack is 10°F when it comes out of the freezer and is placed in a room temperature cooler, the temp. of that ice pack will fairly quickly rise to very, very, slightly under the freezing point, at which it will remain (for a lot longer than it took to rise to that temp.) until fully melted. That's why an ice pack that freezes at or near 32°F is only really good at keeping a cooler at refrigerator temp (~under 40°F) rather than at freezer temps... to do that, you need a saltwater (brine) solution, or a commercially-produced "phase change" pack with similar properties as brine, and a much higher price tag. Table salt works OK, but is only optimal if your freezer goes down below -6°F, which is the eutectic point of a NaCl-Water solution.
Also, salt water has a lower heat capacity that pure water which you've somewhat touched on. So per unit volume (x jugs of frozen water), you're better off with pure water. To keep your beer cold, pure water ice is best; ice cream would need more fully saturated salt water. At 100% salt saturation the phase change happens below 0°F
Salty water prob DOES have more coldness by small bit, but it releases it faster so it seems weaker. So salty water quickly gets food to coldness and then the food can keep itself cold longer. You DO want the ice to melt over a time period equal to time span of a trip, and any ice left to pour down sink is wasted....
the salt water doesn't get any colder than the temp of your freezer same with the freshwater the reason for the salt water helping your cooler be colder is it will soak up heat faster than freshwater removing heat from surrounding parts of your cooler ....sounds weird but as the salt water melt the water will start moving in the bottle transfering heat from things touching it to the salt water but the fresh water will perform this function much slower because it will not liquify till 32f or 0c at witch time it will start doing the same thing but the salt water will turn liquid below 0c or 32F and start this process at a cooler temp ......
It's all the latent heat effect. This is why 32f water raises quickly, but why a 32F ice cube takes a long time to turn to water. The salt lowers the temp at which the latent heat effect kicks in.
Not a stupid video!!!! 7:18 Actually answered my question. There 'IS' a trade-off. If you want colder ice, add salt, but it won't last as long. If you don't add salt, the ice isn't as cold but it last longer. I'm SURE there is a physics law that covers this.
Great job!!
Use pink RV antifreeze instead of salt. Adjust the formula to freeze right above the temperature of your freezer. Can be used to keep things frozen, ice does not, or as an ice extender.
The question is not solid vs. liquid, it is temperature. If the salt water is a liquid at say 28 degrees, and the frozen regular water is 32 degrees then the salt water actually wins. Being solid or liquid has no bearing on temperature. Seawater freezes at 28.4 degrees, vodka freezes at -11 degrees. So I'm going to try this experiment with a shot of vodka in the water bottle. Remember temperature, not solid/liquid.
if you really want to test them, you need to take the temperature of the water in both. you can't go by how much "ice" ("ice" meaning saltwater ice) is in the bottle. even though the salt water bottle had little "ice" it still may have been colder than the regular ice bottle, as the "ice" will melt quicker than the regular ice. depending on how much salt you added, will determine how much lower it will take to freeze, and conversely, how much lower it will start to melt.
I guess no one is listening to us.
Not stupid at all, I found this information of value. Thank you
We used to sail in the New Mexico desert. Yes, we have a big lake. It's almost dried up right now but it's filling up this winter. Anyways, we used to spend virtually every weekend on the boat. We would just fill 6 or 8 two liter soda bottles with water and freeze them. We would put them in the ice box on the boat and it would stay cool for 5 days, even in 100+ degree temps. In spring or fall, when it isn't as hot, you can get a week out of it with a well insulated box.
I do the same for a big Igloo cooler for regular camping. The Igloo isn't as well insulated as the ice box on the boat was but it will still stay cool for a 3 day weekend with a little ice left.
You also get cold water as the ice melts if you want.
We just freeze a bunch of bottles of Gatorade and 1.5l water. That way we can take them out of the cooler as we need and have icy cold beverage all day long as they thaw out. We always have more than we'll drink to keep things cold.
Of course the salt solution will melt sooner, that's because its freezing point is much lower. That's why salt is used to "melt" ice. It does that by lowering its freezing point. The real question is the temperature. All things being equal, the salt container should be colder even if it is melted because the salt solution can start out colder than fresh water ice. The salt basically gives you a head start as long as you can get it to fully freeze to start with.
I use blocks of ice, frozen to about 5 deg. in gallon ice cream containers, butter containers, Tupperware, whatever... put the ice in the cooler and leave the plastic at home. That way when I pack up camp to leave I can drain the melt and carry lighter. I also freeze half of my water bottles and set them out to thaw as needed. Two weeks ago it was in the mid 90s, on a sandbar with no shade, UV was extreme. I put about 2 gallons of solid ice (5 small blocks) in the bottom of an igloo cube and topped it off with bagged ice over the food. Left Friday at 2, by Monday there were still small chunks of ice, and our container of tuna salad was as cold as ice cream. I have an orca, but the important stuff (beer) goes in there. My dad does it differently, but he spends a week in the desert. He fills his engle with only block ice he freezes himself and uses that to replenish his cheap coolers as needed... after a week camping he's giving ice away before he heads home.
Salt water will keep food colder than regular water, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will keep it colder for longer. think of running a refrigerator on a deep cycle battery, you could turn the refrigerator temperature lower and get the food colder but it would take more power from the battery and the battery would go dead sooner then if you raise the temperature a bit and the refrigerator uses less energy, the battery doesn't go dead as quickly and ultimately the food stays cold longer, but obviously not as cold as if you had set the refrigerator colder. it is ultimately the state change from ice to water that keeps the food cold, the amount of salt in the water is like setting the thermostat for what temperature the ice is. but making the ice colder just means you are making it absorb heat faster which means that ultimately it won't keep it colder for as long. it might be useful to add salt to the water if you were going fishing and wanted to freeze the fish you caught before you got home.
Nice video. My folks used to rinse out the milk cartons back in the day, and freeze them. We used them for the coolers and we also used them for ice for the home made ice cream maker. just hammer them to crush the ice and put in the freezer tub.
Use a thermometer AND freeze to a lower temperature! Two containers of water side by side in a freezer are going to be the same temperature no matter what the solidity difference.
I believe that for the same substance and temperature, solids (ice) simply warm more slowly than liquids.
Salt water thoroughly iced IS at a lower temperature than frozen tap water and will simply be bringing a colder temperature item into the cooler to begin with.
Bottom line - that saltwater ice has to BE colder to bring colder!
The freezer is lower than 32f in order to freeze water.
I think if you left the saltwater in longer it may have all frozen solid eventually and have actually become colder like the freezer itself is.
Maybe not, if the salt level wasn’t high enough.
You really have to accurately measure the amount of salt and temperature of both after freezing each.
In the rice example, not having the control of knowing how solid/cold the saltwater ice got you just don’t know what temperature you’re working with.
You also didn’t mention or compare the amount of ice for each comparison .
Perhaps that saltwater ice was colder, you used more or there was less heat leaving the area where you did that experiment.
You really have to accurately detail and track each controlling factor…
You just can’t draw accurate conclusions without accurate controls!
Thanks for the test and time to make the video. Gave me the information I wanted / needed.
Laundry soap and rubbing alcohol are used to make diy liquid ice packs fill your bottles with the solution. Also when bending brass and copper they fill the tube with this 50/50 solution put it in a freezer the metal bends with out breaking.
The answer is simple “no salt”, so you can drink it ! Key is leave the bottle in your freezer for a week or two.
Hey Getn Lost thanks for taking the time to make this vid im getting a soft pack cooler for my birthday because i love to eat the fish i catch so i have been looking for ice pack options , after seeing your vid and what you and your fans are saying i concluded that im definetly getting a yeti 1 pound ice pack and a small gatorade bottle to keep everything cold.. Sir thank you for conforming my decision. BTW this was not a stupid video
I would guess that how long a bottle stays frozen is not the test for how much "cooling power" a bottle has. A bottle with salt dissolved in its water will be more heavy and more dense. Think if it as a thermal mass of water, and a larger thermal mass of water mixed with minerals. So, even if the salt water bottle melts faster, it may still provide more "cooling power" than the plain water bottle. Therefore, if the salt water bottle weighs significantly more than the plain water bottle, it will provide more cooling power than the plain water bottle.
I drive truck here in AZ, been driven for 12 yrs & usen like gatorade empty bottles as ice in my little cooler, It works great ,get home loosen up the caps- lids stick them back in freezer for next day.A lot cheaper & lot less messerier than ice.
Maybe you should just take both? I'd imagine the fresh staying frozen longer and the salt being colder, used together, would make a primo cooler. Am I stupid? Just take both
I saw another video where they added wads of cotton to the water and it stayed solid a LOT longer. Might be worth a try.
You could fill the bottles up with a flavored drink like iced coffee along with flavored water for some added treats 😋 The coffee drink could be for the ride home from camping 😉
Without knowing the temperature we could infer that butter, which stays solid longer at room temperature, would be be an even better choice than frozen tap water.
On another video, a guy covered 2 thawed steaks. One with a frozen salt bottle, the other was a frozen plain water bottle in a cooler. 5 hours later, the salt bottle covered steak was frozen solid. The frozen water only covered steak was as limp as it was put in there. The way to properly cool items is to pre-chill the cooler, then place 2 salt bottles on one side of the cooler and place 2 water only bottles on the other side. Place a gel pack next to the salt bottles to act as a buffer to keep items you don't want frozen solid. Then add drinks and food items. Cover all them with a bag of ice. This will last 3-5 days, depending on how often you open the cooler and how cool you can shade the cooler from direct heat. Extra insulating the cooler works too.
I make salt bottles using 1/2 gallon empty juice bottles. 1/4 cup salt, I notice the bottles take longer to freeze, I give it 3 - 5 days to completely freeze. If you put it next to some ice in you ice chest the ice stays frozen longer. It works very well for my car trips and camping. 1 20 pound bag of ice, 2 1/2 gal salt bottles my ice lasts for days.
BTW> You can always drink the fresh water once its done.. you'll go literally mental if you drink the salt water. I was surprised about the results. Salt water is more intense but doesn't last as long. I'm now guessing a combination might be in order.
Transfer of heat. The salt lowers the melting point of ice which speeds the transfer of heat. This gives it the ability to freeze items touching it since it transfers the heat faster from the item. Your trade-off is it concentrates the cold and freezes close items as the salt ice melts at a faster rate. The regular ice transfers heat from the cooler and items at a slower rate, allowing it to last longer. Items are chilled but not frozen. Both ice water and salt ice are the same temperatures when frozen, just one transfers heat faster.
That was a good video
It’s good to know
I think the salt packs would be good for coolers that are being opened more often like the drinks cooler
You just have to mark them so people don’t try to drink them
Thanks for doing this test, I always wondered. I freeze half gallon milk/OJ containers with screw tops. They fit into the square corners of the cooler, stand up or lay down, they keep bag ice frozen much longer, provide extra water if jugs are cleaned properly for extended trips.
I line the bottom of cooler with frozen 1/2 gal jugs, wire shelf rack over them. Not much use for Ice then.
Great video and good hack! Water bottles also keep the ice water from filling up the bottom of your cooler, causing food to get soggy.
Use the best of both worlds. If going for a weekend only use the plain water but if you are camping for a week then I would do a few salt water bottles under the bags of ice with a few plain water bottles on top of the food & drinks.
The short answer is that using saltwater ice will make things colder but it will not last as long as compared to plain water ice. Bottles could get you a few more hours than loose ice (pound for pound) because there is less contact with the cooler walls and air is a much better insulator than water. When really stretching for every last bit and you can accept 45f beer rather than 32f, you get another maybe 10% extra heat capacity after all the ice is melted because the cold water stays in the bottles as compared to draining the cold water as is common in loose ice.
By far most of the thermal capacity of ice is in the transition between solid and liquid(144 units of heat absorbed just to melt 32f ice into 32f water; as compared to one unit of heat to raise liquid water 1 degree or 0.5 units for changing solid ice 1 degree.)
Salt water mixtures are eutectic systems and so they melt/freeze at a lower temperature then plain water. Because of this lower melting point the temperature of the cooler could be kept colder than plain ice, if you actually needed it colder than 32f. However the total thermal capacity of the salt ice will be a bit reduced and more importantly there will be a higher heat flow through the walls of the cooler, so that the colder cold will not last as long. (being colder inside is the same as being hotter outside when it comes to heat conduction)
It may seem like a stupid video but it was helpful and informative, thanks
Here's the thing, salt-water, depending on concentration, freezes at about-21 degrees celsius. I doubt your fridge
was able to get down to that.
My freezer gets to -10 fahrenheit , checking with Mercury thermometer and a digital temp gun, but I keep the fridge turned to coldest cause it's my beer fridge so I say yes it's possible.
@J Dove - That is incorrect. 21 degrees C is the temperature the saltiest water solution possible freezes at. A solution that has so much salt in it that you can't dissolve any more into it. Sea water (which is still very salty) freezes at 2 degrees celsius. Most freezers are set to a lower temperature than that.
So my thought after this video, use the regular ice for most applications. but if you are taking ice cream you can use the salt ice vs having to buy dry ice at the store. Just be aware that it's not going to last as long as regular ice.
I guess the question is how long do they stay at what temperature? If both are put in a freezer that freezes both solid they should be same temperature when taken out. Then their temperature should rise equally until the salt water starts to melt first since it's freezing point is lower. The phase change absorbs heat keeping the temp. at that lower freeze temp. until all the ice melts and then the liquid temperature will start to rise again. The fresh water ice's temp. will keep rising past the salt water's till it gets to 32F at which point it will stay at 32 till all ice is gone. Then the liquid will start to rise. My guess is that something put with the salt water will initially stay colder then will catch up to the freshwater. So if you're keeping something for a short time the salt water would be the best if you need stuff less than 32, but in the long run it would be about equal.
saved us a lot of trouble. Nice video!
From what I am learning, if you freeze salt water bottles and put them in your cooler with ice, the saltwater bottles will keep your ice colder longer.
It doesn't matter if it's frozen or not, The important thing is which water bottle is COLDER longer.
I have been doing this for decades. I use filtered water (I have a Sawyer Squeeze water filter) and as the ice melts, I have ice-cold water for drinking.
BTW - I keep eight, 32 oz. bottles of ice in my refrigerator-freezer, and when my power was out for two days in July 2016, the food in my refrigerator stayed cool until the power was restored.
Thanks for testing the salt water thing, good to know about freezing if that is needed (not usually for me). I was resisting using salt because I’d rather have drinkable water as a backup to backup. I got 7+ days on 25qt cooler from Cabela’s (ice rated for 5 days) on a pre-thanksgiving week trip with niece to Joshua Tree NP, and discovered using frozen water bottles kind of by accident when I froze some the size you showed to pre chill the cooler with the intent on having them melted be cool water in the desert. The blue ice type chillers only lasted 3 days while the the bottled ice just kept going & going.
The other suggestion I wanted to mention was reusing the ice pack bags that a friends Rx came shipped in. I refroze those & used them successfully for pre chilling the cooler, then tossed them back in freezer for next time. Not sure how long those would work on a trip since I wanted the fresh water to drink later in the trip, but they worked great in the pre chill phase of getting ready. Thx again for your simple video.
It doesn’t matter what you go with, they’re both at the same temperature. Salt only changes freezing point, not how cold something is. At 32 degrees F one is solid and the other not. But same temperature
I'm curious what temperature of both is, Even if the salt water bottle has turned back to liquid, if it's colder than fresh water bottle, it should still be a better option. Thinking I may get one of those temp guns & try the same experiment testing if there is a temp difference hours later.
Agreed. Let us know.
Okay, finished the experiment & it seems odd, but I'm sure someone with a better knowledge of thermodynamics can explain it.
So I put two identical PowerAide bottle in the freezer, one fresh water & one with about a quarter inch of salt in it ( well shaken with hot water in both & left to cool for an hour). Next morning at 9 I start the experiment. Salt temp 27.3 fresh temp 30.6. Why salts so much colder when they were side by side in the freezer makes no sense to me, but that's the reading.
10 am: salt 31.3, fresh 34.5.
11am salt 32.5, fresh 37.6.
12 pm salt 45.1, fresh 39.2.
1 pm, salt 52.9, fresh 40.7.
2 pm salt 57.7, fresh 41.8
@@ruffus8039 looks like I will be sticking to freshwater then.
I'll try this later👍
I leave unopened bottle water in the freezer if the refrigerator goes out it won't destroy my food while I'm at work 😑👍
I would be interested to see what the outside temp of the bottles were. Just because the saltwater is liquid and the freshwater is still solid does not mean the freshwater is colder. The liquid saltwater may still cool a cooler better than the 30 deg freshwater even though it is still solid.
It takes the same number of Latent Heat BTU's (144) to freeze or thaw fresh water ice as it does Brine water. Brine water just happens at a slightly colder temp depending on how salty the water is. Takes longer to freeze salt water cause salt water has to be colder to start freezing. (hence throwing salt on icy roads thaws the ice). The total amount of "Latent Heat" + "Sensible Heat" in BTU's is the same. Low temp to High temp , Freezing and thawing. Both bottles will freeze to the same temp in the same amount of time, but the fresh water ice will freeze first and thaw last. . Especially for Ice Chest purposes. If you want more details go back and finish high school. Best bet, freeze fresh water, DOH! you can drink it. Blocks last longest, I like 1 gallon tea containers. You can freeze the tea too. Now if they made Beer in freezable containers.
I just want to say, good job showing how water without salt has a freezing point of 0 degrees Celsius and how adding salt to water drops the freezing point. Salt does not melt ice, it causes the freezing point to drop, there fore it stays liquid at colder temps and can freeze the stuff around it. When you understand salt doesnt melt ice then it all makes sense.
Thanks for sharing. You also have water to drink.
Good Info........I would have liked to see you use a laser thermometer on each one to see the exact temp of each bottle. Does regular water stay at 32 degrees, and the salt water drops to say 0, or what?
So if you have two bottles, one salt water, one regular, overnight in the freezer which is set at 20 degrees.
How exactly did the salt bottle “get colder”? They are both 20 degrees.
Salt water has a lower freezing point. But
That doesn’t make it colder.
If you start with frozen tap water, then you should have started with frozen salt water. The five hour freezer time is irrelevant. But great idea with the frozen salt water bottle. I will use your idea but line the very bottom of the cooler with it then a layer of meat then another layer of iced water bottles and chilled drinks, finally any food items that just need refrigeration on top.
Okay, but have you proven that liquid salt water which has just thawed (does or does not) remain colder than solid regular ice water. We need to see temperatures taken of the salt ice at thawed temperatrue vs regular ice. Respectively, it is KNOWN that just thawed salt ice liquid can remain cooler than solid ice by 5-12 degrees. So, we need to find out the thermal insulation properties of salt ice water vs salt ice solid, vs water ice liquid, and solid, and the comparison of time thawed at say room temperature. I argue that a colder solution of just thawed salt ice will remain as a more effective cooler additive than a longer lasting solid water ice over a time period before solid ice reaches melting temperature.
depending on cooler space and intended use, you could use both. salt water bottles would slow the melting of fresh water bottles
We add 2 liter bottles to the freezer during hurricane season helps keeps freezer cold if power goes out.
Brandi E C ---I've been doing basically the same thing for years... Only I use my discarded Plastic milk/Gallon jugs (Sanitized w/bleach of course). They kept my frozen foods SAFE very well... Example--My vacuum sealed Early peas were still 85%-90% still frozen during last Hurricane power outage. No Power/No Running water!! that lasted 8 DAYS 7 NIGHTS Altogether. PLUS as An added bonus a few of them provided A much-needed source of FRESH water available to drink as well !!!! Savannah GA
Freeze both bottles completely then start your test...if you don't it's a pointless test.
Brian Miller I understand what your saying, the point is the salt water takes longer to freeze. In fact, even if I leave it in longer, it don't seem to freeze completely. In a deep freezer, it freezes fine but the temp is lower.
It would have been interesting to see the temps of both bottles until they both reached room temp. Then we'd see which one actually stayed coldest longer. That would have answered your question in a little more detail.
I would assume that the salt slush is still colder than the bottle with tap water and ice. The question is which stays colder for the longest amount of time, so temps and a time scale would have been useful.
However, all that being said, I always like using regular water because as it melts I can drink it as the other supply runs out.
By the time my cooler isn't cold enough, the festival is over! LOL
Plus there's always a guy selling ice somewhere! ;)
Getn Lost if it isn't freezing completely put less salt in it....happened to me..I use the flat side juice bottles as they lay flat....
Doesn't have to be a solid to be cold. Liquid salt water can be cooler than solid freshwater. this is why saltwater isn't frozen at the same temp the freshwater is frozen(ie 25 degrees the fresh is froze the salt is liquid). I am betting the thawed saltwater would cool a cooler better than the mostly frozen fresh
Video Pipeline so what salt is best to use?
Thanks for making this video, very useful.
Guys...the goal is not to make ice..the goal is to make correct temperature. Good doesn’t care if it’s a liquid that’s keeping it cold. Salt water may not stay frozen but it stays colder longer
I did the same test. Not much difference when they do melt completely. I thought the salt water would stay frozen longer but not so. So, I will stay with fresh so I can drink it as it melts !
Not a stupid video at all. Honest review !
I use them same bottles. But never tryed salt may try that thanks for the vidoe good info. Have a great weekend god bless
Salt water ice vs fresh water ice - just because salt water has a lower freezing temp does not mean frozen fresh water cannot get colder than frozen salt water. If you put a bottle of salt water and a bottle of fresh water in your freezer (at home) and the freezer's temp is 10 F, eventually both bottles will be 10 F.
The real issue is the specific heat of salt water vs fresh water. That is, how much energy does it take to heat salt water vs fresh water. Here we find that salt water has a lower specific heat value and will be less efficient at keeping the cooler cool.
socratic.org/questions/how-does-salt-change-the-specific-heat-capacity-of-water
That make a sense we use salt to avoid freezing so the salted solution do the job to go back to liquid faster then water☺
Get square bottle for coolers more volume will make it last longer
Frozen salt water melts @-6F, fresh water stays frozen until +32F.
Freeze salt bottles in bottom form layer ,add your ice then , hot air rises. So, if you have good insulated lid on cooler.Keeps your ice 2)days without melting.
the benefit of regular water is that you now have drinkable water when it thaws Salt water is useless in a survival situation.
Depending on the freezer you are using, the ice water will definitely be colder. The salt water has a lower freezing point, so it has the potential to be a liquid and still be colder than non-salt water. Do not confuse specific heat and state (liquid vs solid) with cooling capacity. You could use Propylene glycol (antifreeze) and make ice packs as cold as any residential freezer will go, and they will still be liquid.
As an extreme example, imagine frozen freshwater compared to dry ice, the dry ice is very much colder than water ice but will evaporate much quicker compared with ice in a bottle. It will not last as long, but starts out so much colder
so no temperature test at the end... being frozen or not, the important thing is the temperature.... ... Salt water, as it has more mass, it needs more calories to heat up. so it takes 1kcal to heat up 1 kg of water 1ºC since it's distilled, 1 litre..1kcal.. now, for salt water, it can hold a lot of salt but less so at freezing temperatures, (so don't overdue or it will precipitate and expand like crazy) 1.4kg of salt water needs to absorb 1.4kcal to heat up 1ºC
I wonder if they could play off of each other, keeping the "cooler" colder and longer... for example: in a medium-sized cooler, add two salted and two non-salted water bottles. keep the salted next to the non-salted bottles.
SALT (NaCl) - mass 58.44 grams per mole - Density 2.165 g/cm³
WALTER (H₂O) - mass 18.02 grams per mole - Density 0.997 g/m³
Salt's 3¼ the mass of water & over twice as dense. Salt retains more heat & can stay cooler longer then water.