It is very close, but the difference is if your drinks are submerged in a little bit of the cold cold water they're actually colder then the ones just sitting in ice
exactly, talk about a key point being missed. who gives a crap about the ice left. Should have started with 6 sodas and took out 2 per day and tested temp of the soda. Guarantee from life experience the one with liquid had cooler sodas.
Once the temp stabilizes ( in a few hours) there will not be a difference in the temp. With water warm sodas will cool faster because of greater contact area but the end temp will be the same.
aaronsbraga believe it or not- physics. One would think that the temp is the same, but water actually will cool drinks slightly more- weird physics phenomenon. Action Lab channel actually made a pretty detailed video on how that works and why... I promise, it’s counter intuitive as you would think the temp is the temp, but physics are a weird think lol Let me know if you want a link to that video.
Thank you for providing this info! Always wondered about this. Since it's so close, it seems to me a chest full of drinks would benefit by leaving the water, and a chest of food would benefit by draining, just to keep food from getting submerged, and spoiled. For nit-pickers I would point out that the cooler getting drained was also letting in a lot more warm ambient air than the other chest, because the lid needed to be open longer, so it might actually have held ice slightly longer if exposure to ambient air were exactly the same as the other cooler. So close it's not really an issue though. Thanks again!
Thanks for the test! For everybody who is mr and mrs scientific, take this for what it is, a simple test to see which is better. We all know we aren't going to only have two cans of coke in our cooler and only open it so many times and we are not testing the degree difference in Celsius and Fahrenheit and Kelvin units...just enjoy the test and thank the man. And go do your own tests if you want and make your own video. Jeesh people! 😂🤣
This was really helpful! Just wanted to let you know we got great results draining twice a day, for a 2 night 3 day trip. Used the water to wash dishes & gear. We made solid ice blocks as well inside of large food containers and large ziplock bags. Seemed like they could last a considerable time if drained regularly.
So I work in the Mojave desert. I have a 50 quart Pelican cooler. After several months in extreme temperatures, and with the experience of others, I have learned the best way to keep ice is to not dump it out of the bag, and layer food and drinks between two bags. Both bags with holes punch in the bottom side, and the drain hole open and connected to a garden hose to divert the ice melt. It has work great for me.
I camp, picnic (a lot), and grocery shop with a cooler if I know I'll be shopping for perishables in advance. For me it comes down to food much more than for drinks. No matter what sort of container food is in, there can and will be some leaks. Meats, veggies, etc. all need to be clean in order to be safe. Taste can be affected too. Bottom line is that draining water is my standard practice. Draining also allows me to more accurately see how much actual ice is left, without being disguised with water. If you're truly interested in maximizing ice retention, forget about keeping the water. It's much more important to add insulation. I always have some foam, bubble wrap, towel, etc. under my cooler. That's where the biggest losses occur. Feel underneath a cooler that has been in one place for a while. If it's cold it means loss is occurring. Insulate that one place and you'll notice the difference it makes. The lower 30% to 50% up the sides can help even more. Don't worry about the lid. That's where the least losses occur. So you see, keeping water or not is only one consideration.
There are other factors to consider. I'm moving my coolers around and/or carrying them in a kayak...so weight is a consideration. I'm not going to haul around a lot of extra water weight unless it provides a significant value. Then again, if you are in a situation where you need extra water, you may be glad you saved the melt.
I like what Joe Woodchucks comment below said about insulating the bottom outside where you sit the cooler. Makes sense that with gravity cold drops down and heat goes up, so temperature loss from the lid would be less than the loss at the bottom of the cooler. Don’t sit your cooler on a hot surface. Great feedback Joe!
Gravity doesn't affect heat transfer. The reason you want insulation between the bottom and the ground is because the ground to cooler contact has a much more favorable heat gradient than air to cooler does. You're right that a little something extra is helpful, I just dont want you going around thinking heat has weight.
So I guess it comes down to personal preference, what you're storing, and how frequently you're able to replace the ice. Like others have said, if you're simply storing beverages, retaining some or all of the water makes sense. If you're storing food that you don't want to get wet, or frequently moving the cooler, draining the water would keep your food drier and make the cooler easier to move.
Good test, thanks. One issue, affecting only some of us, is the weight. I seal my drain plug, which means I have to physically tip it, and I am older, bad back and so forth. So, to take it outside and drain it, is a factor--again, for some of us. As a side, I think why I seal the drain plug is obvious, but for those who draw a blank, seems those plugs can "pop open" at the worst possible time, like in your car.
If the water is still cold or cool it can "absorb" some heat plus it is less space for warmer air to fill in. What I do is for each bag of ice, I put it in a hefty trash bag and twist it up so water won't leak out. Camping, I want to keep my food and food containers dry. Meats I will put under the bags, and other foods I will keep on top of the ice. I'm interested in getting some kitchen cabinet wire racks to do some organizing but it works for now. I have also heard some people using rigid foam to partition their coolers as well.
My guess as to why both methods rendered similar results was that you were opening the lid. The theory behind not draining the water is that the drain hole lets warmer air in which raises the cooler's temp and melts the remaining ice faster. However, since you were opening the lids, both coolers were filled with warmer air regardless of the drain plug. IMO, if you're planning on actually using your cooler, I wouldn't worry about opening the drain plug because pulling the lid off is going to let in much more warm air anyway.
Great vid. Thank you. The less empty air space the cooler has the easier it is for it to maintain temperature. Eliminate as much dead air space as you can and do your best not to open it. Use freezer sheets to cover the top of the contents of the cooler.
Basically what's going on is: The water is 32° and while it would seem like a waste to just dump it, the water also cools down the insulated sides more, causing more "cold loss" on the sides of the cooler (it's really heat gain). The air that replaces drained water will better insulate the ice and cold items from the sides and bottom. Air is a better insulator than water, so for the long term, a cooler with a drain will stay colder than one that holds water, so long as the drain isn't always open (letting air travel inside and out of the cooler). For the short term, the water is already 32°, so not only will it chill items quicker, it would be a constant 32° unlike the air that gets replaced everytime the cooler lid is opened. Hope this helps explain *some* of the thermodynamics happening here. (Open to any corrections or critiques) Edit: btw, great test! I learned a lot from this, and now I have even more, like if in constant shade vs full sun, how often it's drained (can't leave it unplugged, so at some point, every 30 min might be most efficient), how often the lid is opened, ect.
Don't know if I'd agree that in a cooler that air is a better insulator. It is easier to heat and cool air (vs water) but water once heated or cooled will 'hold' that temperature much longer. Water has higher enthalpy than a goas does. Enthalpy and entropy are two related terms in thermodynamics. The key difference between enthalpy and entropy is that enthalpy is the heat transfer takes place in a constant pressure whereas entropy gives an idea of the randomness of a system. Leaving water in a cooler will keep it colder longer because water can 'hold' on to the coldness (in this case) or heat, much longer than air can. I think we are saying the same thing here!
@@tyson9419 its easier to heat and cool one gram of air than one gram of water, but thats not whats happening in a cooler. I think you're missing some of the most important factors here. The OP is right in regards to a theoretical cooler. Only problem is a cooler doesnt behave theoretically because people are in and out of it all the time.
When you do this again could you put a steak, hot dogs, or other food item in there with an internal thermometer or something? Just to see if there is a significant difference on the food item which, I think, is the important part. I think in the convection vs conduction argument people agree on conduction since probably everyone covers there food with ice. So then the argument is ice is colder, but has air space. Water isn't as cold, but has no airspace. My thought is the water could still be 33 degrees which is cold enough since food needs to be about 42 or so. Also, homemade ice cream is made with a saltwater, ice bath. Salt allows the temp to drop below 32, but I've always thought the next best thing then would be just ice water.
Thank you for your video. I'd really like to see what happens with more food/beverage mass in the coolers. That would make it a more realistic experiment.
This is an energy equation. It takes the same amount of energy to chill a can. As long as there is ice in the water, the can, water and ice will all go to 32 degrees. If you dump a 12 pack of drinks into ice or into ice water it takes the same energy to cool the drinks. However, if you leave the ice water from the previous day in the in the cooler and dump in the 12 pack to chill the cans then dump the water out to put in the ice, your ice will last longer because the doesn't loose the energy needed to chill your drinks. Basically if you dump ice water out your dumping out energy. If you are dumping out water with no Ice you are saving energy as placing ice into that water would require more energy to bring both the old water and drinks back down to 32 degrees.
Since the result is equal on balance. The benefit of draining as you go means less cleanup at the end as well as a lighter and lighter cooler each day. That gets my vote!
If the one without water retains ice longer then why was it basically equal at the end,and if the one with water was colder at the end wouldn't that mean it was the winner,do you want ice on the last day or cold drinks.
Scientific answer - water to cooler wall contact transfers heat more easily than air to cooler wall contact or ice to cooler wall contact. Theoretically, this becomes even more exaggerated at higher and higher temperatures (emphasis on theoretically) especially when in contact with certain surfaces like a metal truck bed. Meanwhile, keeping the cold water in increases the thermal mass of the system. These two effects are not equal, so solving it for the ideal solution requires using a differential equation that I hate solving, so you'll just have to trust that for most cases, water > no water. On the flip side, if you had your cooler floating in midair and wrapped in a space blanket, you kight actually want to drain the water. I don't know how you'd drain the water while keeping it completely covered in a space blanket, but there you go
How about a solid block of ice vs cubes. Like others have said, the cold water completely surrounding the beverages will keep them colder with full contact of the 32 degree water. We camped in Utah with a big igloo cooler. Ice cubes melted and the cooler got warm much quicker than when we bought block ice.
@@CoolersOnSale kind of, but not exactly. I believe the solid block should melt slower then the cube ice. Based on our experience the combo of cube with the block ice lasted longer by more than a day compared to cubes only. The cubes melted first but the block lasted longer keeping the water at 32 degrees. Our drinks and food stayed ice cold. One or the other alone was not as good as the combo.
Science time! Let's assume you have freezing temp (but not frozen) water and freezing temp (but not melting) ice. If you have the same amounts from one cooler to the next, they have mathematically the same thermal mass. Where they start to diverge is when you have colder than freezing temp ice or slightly above freezing water, which human skin cannot differentiate accurately. What likely happened here is the big block of ice is cold as shit in the middle due to how it was formed which completely negates the original premise of "equal starting points". As a result, giant chunk of ice might work out for you better in practice than in theory, but not for the reasons stated in this video.
Drain the water - but not by opening the lid! Both coolers are same temperature until all ice melts. Water speeds heat loss through walls. And it makes contents soggy. And do the test with half the volume filled with... food!
Actually a drink submerged in ice water will be colder than a drink submerged in solid ice because the ice water is covering the whole bottle every f****** part of it, the ice does not
That's what we do on our jobs. 4 to 8 guys and we go thru at least 1 of the 24 packs of waters per cooler each day in the summertime. Its cleaner and seems to last longer. When the waters are submerged they taste off sometimes.
That's not how salt works. The ice would melt at a lower temperature. So yeah the temperature will drop but the total thermal energy in the system wouldn't change. It wouldn't keep food safe for longer than unsalted ice. Human intuition says colder = better but the actual numbers don't change the end result.
Wish some one would do a video on how to install a drain plug on a 28 quart,why is there no drain plug?? C'mon really? Like, did some one in the design department forget that eventually these coolers hold water too??
If were just keeping drinks in the cooler, i dont mind having water sit around, but most times we'll have food and if there's water in the cooler, it'll be come waterlogged no matter how many ziplock bags we use. Therefore, i've just gotten in the habit of draining the water. This last time we went camping, we collected it and used it for showering since we were beach camping. Worked out great, quick shower at the end of the day with nice cold water.
If you don't need to move the cooler than there's no need to drain the water for weight issues. The cold water adds thermal mass and will add time to the clock on keeping your stuff cold. If your food gets soggy you are doing it wrong. All perishables should be double bagged and moved to the top of the pile, above the water. Last but not least, keep your cooler out of the sun. If you don't have shade then throw a blanket or jacket over it.
Can't be worse than FL in the middle of summer, see an updated version here: www.coolersonsale.com/cheap-coolers-best-budget-cooler-based-on-performance/
When I travel on the road, I take a lot of home cooked food in rubbermaid containers. I drain water every morning, and than top off ice everyday. I don' t like my food floating in water or water making their way into my food containers. I usually am out for 10-12 days. Point is, drain the water if you have the option to top it off with ice.
I live year round in a truck camper. Very basic no bathroom. And no carying poop or pee on the road. I drain my cooler daily and USE THIS WATER to clean dishes with. Do people throw this water away?!
Looks like the bottom line is if you're only going to use the cooler for canned and bottled liquid beverages, then it's better to leave the water in. But if you're using the cooler for food items that you don't want water intrusion, like open packs of lunch meat cheese Hot dogs etc? Then it's best to drain. A side note. Even storing your foods inside freezer bags or sandwich bags inside a cooler that's not drained does not guarantee your food will not be water saturated. Sandwich and freezer bags leak.
I drain some of the water out after a couple days. Just dont like dunking my hand in a ton of water then have a soaked dripping can once i pull one out. But i let some water stay in cause i always felt the cans stayed colder in ice water and ice
Digging your hand around in ice water looking for a can would add more heat to the cooler than digging your hand around in just ice. Oh no, the test is getting more and more complicated
How do you feel about putting dry ice on the bottom with regular on on top and then whatever you want to keep cool on top to make the ice last the longest?
We reviewed dry ice vs regular ice here: www.coolersonsale.com/how-to-use-dry-ice-in-a-cooler/ but to answer your question... you need to be careful with how you use it. If it makes the contents inside too cold then problems arise. It certainly can work to prolong the life of ice, but so too can ice packs.
Coolers On Sale awesome. I put dry ice on the bottom of my ice mule and then ice on top and it ruined my ice mule, but ice mule replaced it free of charge which is awesome!
So I feel your test doesn’t closely represent actual usage . Two cans? That’s so away from the typical use of a cooler that size that those presence or absence are irrelevant to the final results Another to consider is this. Do you have the ability to refill the ice? If so drain and fill will give you a lower temp for a longer time. If not then it’s best to keep the water since the water is going to be colder than the air that gets cycled every time the case is opened If you are draining water and adding ice regularly consider using that water for evaporation cooling. Cover or tent the cooler with a towel or clothe and then saturate it with water the evaporation process will draw heat away from the cooler especially if you place it coolers in a shaded but breezy area
The point of the test was to have an even playing field across all coolers. If we were to fill every cooler with contents for a camping trip, we would be eating a hell of a lot of burgers and drinking a lot of beer every day to simulate actual use. On a second thought, this actually sounds quite intriguing.
Coolers On Sale no matter how many coolers you have, you want as little air as possible in the cooler so overtime as your consumables diminish, consolidate the remaining consumables and deactivate those without consumables. Maybe consider ice chest for meats and other perishable food, and water (ice melt) chest for canned beverages. The cooling by evaporations has been a technique long known by the military. Their punching bags drinking water bags are are either semi porous or have a rough weave canvas or terryclothe cover that gets soaked in water. You can also create a cold pantry by using a wire frame box first covered in plastic sheeting then cloth, then saturated with water. Food can then be stored in the boxes and kept cool by the evaporation of the water in the cloth, but you always have to keep the cloth damp once it dries out the box will quickly heat up
Your Best results are to separate the water from the ice! That way the Ice structure is retained and the temp is lower. A top tray with a simple screen draining to a lower container (Ice at the top maintains more even temps throughout the container) . That is what we do for medical samples in the wild. Products don't need to be in contact with the Ice or water unless you need rapid cooling.
In Reality... Most of us who drain the water also add more ice as the weekend goes on. OR, if you leave the water in there, you will still add more ice as the weekend goes on. On a 5 day camping trip I will add at least 2 more bags of ice. I have this cooler and honestly I've added no more than 3 bags. That's because of it constantly being opened and closed. Several years ago we started using one cooler for drinks and the other for food stuff.
What about just leaving the drain barely open all the time so it stays drained/dry? Also what about a smaller portion of dry ice mixed in? Will that prevent the exploding soda cans?
Keeping the water in means you have more mass, when you drain it you lose some mass. Everyone knows bigger bodys of water take longer to warm up. How was this a surprise?
You didnt mention if you precooled the coolers or the ice. Also, it looks like I saw some shadows from the trees, maybe one was in the shade more than the other in the evenings?
This ‘test’ shows one point-for ice retention it makes basically no difference. It is possible that the drained cooler might have kept the ice longer as more heat was introduced as the lid was open during the draining process. He did not show or say if this was controlled or not. Therefore if your cooler is on one location or you do not have to pick it up and move it leave the water in it. If you have to carry your cooler get rid of that extra weight and drain the water, your back will be happier!
depends if you are worried if your food items will get soaked in water my guess.Dad preferred big ice blocks and we made them by freezing in buckets then he just cracked them with a hammer to fit and lasted a good week in the chest.
I believe items cool faster when submerged in ice water. Just ice doesn’t cover more surface area than water. To much air. The test you need to do is how long does it take to cool a can of soda in both scenarios. That would be the deciding factor on keeping water or not.
My goal is to keep it as cold as possible for as long as possible. I'll drain, and top off with ice. I have that same cooler and that method keeps things cold a long time.
You should do one and leave the drain on on cracked so it won’t accumulate water at all and see what happens. Just a suggestion. I’ve had good luck with this practice
Drain your water to a level below the point where certain foods inside will get ruined or contaminate other contents if compromised. An open package of bacon, for example.
We're testing it right now; as of today its lasted 5 Full Days. However, we are testing rotomolded coolers alongside, and the Lifetime will definitely run out before the rotomolded coolers. Additionally, the lid is not as sturdy, so we wouldn't recommend sitting/standing on this cooler like you can other coolers. But then again, its only $100 so in the end not too shabby. We will have a full review coming up in the next couple weeks.
Yea, that could be the case; its just that there is some sagging on the top part of the cooler lid. You can feel it compress/sag down when you sit on it. I'll show this in the video.
I find it's a lot easier to keep my water cold than try to keep ice. I just put two or three frozen powerade bottles in with ice, once the ice is melted, the bottles keep the water icey cold for like three days.
For once I have to disagree with you. I have a 50 quart lifetime cooler on my truck. It will hold 24 water bottles and 20# of ice for 5 days. Ice is almost always depleted the 5th night but without draining it I buy another work day without paying for ice. Yes the water is still ice cold at quitting time Saturday evening . If I were to drain it each day what little water was left would not keep my drinking water cold. This is important cause I don't work on Sunday's so no need for cold water on that day. Buy a new bag Monday morning grab a new case of water out the fridge and start all over again.
Retaining ice is a simplistic way of looking at things. Not draining will clearly keep the cooler longer. If the water you dump out is cold you are losing out on using that to cool the cooler. Weight and keeping food dry are other factors.
Great video thank you so much for sharing. I have a Coleman Ultimate that I purchased in the mid-80s. It had no drain plug as the instructions stated keeping the water in with the ice would keep things cooler. Your video just confirm that! And yes by the way I still have the cooler! Also new subscriber thank you again!
This man does God's work
Ha Ha, Love this!
God is make believe
😂
It is very close, but the difference is if your drinks are submerged in a little bit of the cold cold water they're actually colder then the ones just sitting in ice
exactly, talk about a key point being missed. who gives a crap about the ice left. Should have started with 6 sodas and took out 2 per day and tested temp of the soda. Guarantee from life experience the one with liquid had cooler sodas.
Once the temp stabilizes ( in a few hours) there will not be a difference in the temp. With water warm sodas will cool faster because of greater contact area but the end temp will be the same.
Youre joking right?
aaronsbraga believe it or not- physics.
One would think that the temp is the same, but water actually will cool drinks slightly more- weird physics phenomenon. Action Lab channel actually made a pretty detailed video on how that works and why...
I promise, it’s counter intuitive as you would think the temp is the temp, but physics are a weird think lol
Let me know if you want a link to that video.
Not joking. As has been mentioned, more surface area contact with water=more efficient exchange of temperature.
Thank you for providing this info! Always wondered about this. Since it's so close, it seems to me a chest full of drinks would benefit by leaving the water, and a chest of food would benefit by draining, just to keep food from getting submerged, and spoiled. For nit-pickers I would point out that the cooler getting drained was also letting in a lot more warm ambient air than the other chest, because the lid needed to be open longer, so it might actually have held ice slightly longer if exposure to ambient air were exactly the same as the other cooler. So close it's not really an issue though. Thanks again!
Thanks for the test! For everybody who is mr and mrs scientific, take this for what it is, a simple test to see which is better. We all know we aren't going to only have two cans of coke in our cooler and only open it so many times and we are not testing the degree difference in Celsius and Fahrenheit and Kelvin units...just enjoy the test and thank the man. And go do your own tests if you want and make your own video. Jeesh people! 😂🤣
Amen! Thank you for understanding and the kind words!
This was really helpful! Just wanted to let you know we got great results draining twice a day, for a 2 night 3 day trip. Used the water to wash dishes & gear. We made solid ice blocks as well inside of large food containers and large ziplock bags. Seemed like they could last a considerable time if drained regularly.
This is great to know. Thank you.
So I work in the Mojave desert. I have a 50 quart Pelican cooler. After several months in extreme temperatures, and with the experience of others, I have learned the best way to keep ice is to not dump it out of the bag, and layer food and drinks between two bags. Both bags with holes punch in the bottom side, and the drain hole open and connected to a garden hose to divert the ice melt. It has work great for me.
Awesome to hear!
You in the Marines?
Stars N’ Stripes Forever Army
And keep the hose below the cooler drain. Make sure to collect that water for later use if you are roughing it.
I camp, picnic (a lot), and grocery shop with a cooler if I know I'll be shopping for perishables in advance. For me it comes down to food much more than for drinks. No matter what sort of container food is in, there can and will be some leaks. Meats, veggies, etc. all need to be clean in order to be safe. Taste can be affected too. Bottom line is that draining water is my standard practice. Draining also allows me to more accurately see how much actual ice is left, without being disguised with water.
If you're truly interested in maximizing ice retention, forget about keeping the water. It's much more important to add insulation. I always have some foam, bubble wrap, towel, etc. under my cooler. That's where the biggest losses occur. Feel underneath a cooler that has been in one place for a while. If it's cold it means loss is occurring. Insulate that one place and you'll notice the difference it makes. The lower 30% to 50% up the sides can help even more. Don't worry about the lid. That's where the least losses occur.
So you see, keeping water or not is only one consideration.
There are other factors to consider. I'm moving my coolers around and/or carrying them in a kayak...so weight is a consideration. I'm not going to haul around a lot of extra water weight unless it provides a significant value. Then again, if you are in a situation where you need extra water, you may be glad you saved the melt.
Water covers more surface area cooling the cans more effectively. Nice video
I like what Joe Woodchucks comment below said about insulating the bottom outside where you sit the cooler. Makes sense that with gravity cold drops down and heat goes up, so temperature loss from the lid would be less than the loss at the bottom of the cooler. Don’t sit your cooler on a hot surface. Great feedback Joe!
Gravity doesn't affect heat transfer. The reason you want insulation between the bottom and the ground is because the ground to cooler contact has a much more favorable heat gradient than air to cooler does. You're right that a little something extra is helpful, I just dont want you going around thinking heat has weight.
So I guess it comes down to personal preference, what you're storing, and how frequently you're able to replace the ice. Like others have said, if you're simply storing beverages, retaining some or all of the water makes sense. If you're storing food that you don't want to get wet, or frequently moving the cooler, draining the water would keep your food drier and make the cooler easier to move.
Good test, thanks. One issue, affecting only some of us, is the weight. I seal my drain plug, which means I have to physically tip it, and I am older, bad back and so forth. So, to take it outside and drain it, is a factor--again, for some of us. As a side, I think why I seal the drain plug is obvious, but for those who draw a blank, seems those plugs can "pop open" at the worst possible time, like in your car.
Lots of fisherman tilt the cooler with the drain plug always open. It would be nice to try this on the next test.
If the water is still cold or cool it can "absorb" some heat plus it is less space for warmer air to fill in. What I do is for each bag of ice, I put it in a hefty trash bag and twist it up so water won't leak out. Camping, I want to keep my food and food containers dry. Meats I will put under the bags, and other foods I will keep on top of the ice. I'm interested in getting some kitchen cabinet wire racks to do some organizing but it works for now. I have also heard some people using rigid foam to partition their coolers as well.
My guess as to why both methods rendered similar results was that you were opening the lid. The theory behind not draining the water is that the drain hole lets warmer air in which raises the cooler's temp and melts the remaining ice faster. However, since you were opening the lids, both coolers were filled with warmer air regardless of the drain plug. IMO, if you're planning on actually using your cooler, I wouldn't worry about opening the drain plug because pulling the lid off is going to let in much more warm air anyway.
Great vid. Thank you. The less empty air space the cooler has the easier it is for it to maintain temperature. Eliminate as much dead air space as you can and do your best not to open it. Use freezer sheets to cover the top of the contents of the cooler.
Basically what's going on is:
The water is 32° and while it would seem like a waste to just dump it, the water also cools down the insulated sides more, causing more "cold loss" on the sides of the cooler (it's really heat gain). The air that replaces drained water will better insulate the ice and cold items from the sides and bottom.
Air is a better insulator than water, so for the long term, a cooler with a drain will stay colder than one that holds water, so long as the drain isn't always open (letting air travel inside and out of the cooler).
For the short term, the water is already 32°, so not only will it chill items quicker, it would be a constant 32° unlike the air that gets replaced everytime the cooler lid is opened.
Hope this helps explain *some* of the thermodynamics happening here. (Open to any corrections or critiques)
Edit: btw, great test! I learned a lot from this, and now I have even more, like if in constant shade vs full sun, how often it's drained (can't leave it unplugged, so at some point, every 30 min might be most efficient), how often the lid is opened, ect.
Don't know if I'd agree that in a cooler that air is a better insulator. It is easier to heat and cool air (vs water) but water once heated or cooled will 'hold' that temperature much longer. Water has higher enthalpy than a goas does. Enthalpy and entropy are two related terms in thermodynamics. The key difference between enthalpy and entropy is that enthalpy is the heat transfer takes place in a constant pressure whereas entropy gives an idea of the randomness of a system. Leaving water in a cooler will keep it colder longer because water can 'hold' on to the coldness (in this case) or heat, much longer than air can.
I think we are saying the same thing here!
@@tyson9419 its easier to heat and cool one gram of air than one gram of water, but thats not whats happening in a cooler. I think you're missing some of the most important factors here. The OP is right in regards to a theoretical cooler. Only problem is a cooler doesnt behave theoretically because people are in and out of it all the time.
Thanks for clearing this up!
Cold water leaving the cooler means the warm air is replacing it.
Thanks for the test! We get asked this question every day, now we know----- Regards Siberian Coolers
When you do this again could you put a steak, hot dogs, or other food item in there with an internal thermometer or something?
Just to see if there is a significant difference on the food item which, I think, is the important part. I think in the convection vs conduction argument people agree on conduction since probably everyone covers there food with ice. So then the argument is ice is colder, but has air space. Water isn't as cold, but has no airspace. My thought is the water could still be 33 degrees which is cold enough since food needs to be about 42 or so. Also, homemade ice cream is made with a saltwater, ice bath. Salt allows the temp to drop below 32, but I've always thought the next best thing then would be just ice water.
I only drain when I need to move the cooler, otherwise I've never drained chasing ice. ❄️💧
Thank you for your video. I'd really like to see what happens with more food/beverage mass in the coolers. That would make it a more realistic experiment.
We just published a video like this: th-cam.com/video/uspgSQX12Ew/w-d-xo.html
Man on man, the near "fisticuffs" I've come to with people over the years in campgrounds over this!
This is an energy equation. It takes the same amount of energy to chill a can. As long as there is ice in the water, the can, water and ice will all go to 32 degrees. If you dump a 12 pack of drinks into ice or into ice water it takes the same energy to cool the drinks. However, if you leave the ice water from the previous day in the in the cooler and dump in the 12 pack to chill the cans then dump the water out to put in the ice, your ice will last longer because the doesn't loose the energy needed to chill your drinks. Basically if you dump ice water out your dumping out energy. If you are dumping out water with no Ice you are saving energy as placing ice into that water would require more energy to bring both the old water and drinks back down to 32 degrees.
Basic chemistry. Water stays at 32 degrees until all the ice melts that’s floating in it. Alway submerge the cans. Super cold
facts
Since the result is equal on balance. The benefit of draining as you go means less cleanup at the end as well as a lighter and lighter cooler each day. That gets my vote!
If the one without water retains ice longer then why was it basically equal at the end,and if the one with water was colder at the end wouldn't that mean it was the winner,do you want ice on the last day or cold drinks.
What about for the people that have meats, veggies, etc that dont want to be waterlogged?
Dry and cold are two different things. Zip locks work great
Scientific answer - water to cooler wall contact transfers heat more easily than air to cooler wall contact or ice to cooler wall contact. Theoretically, this becomes even more exaggerated at higher and higher temperatures (emphasis on theoretically) especially when in contact with certain surfaces like a metal truck bed. Meanwhile, keeping the cold water in increases the thermal mass of the system. These two effects are not equal, so solving it for the ideal solution requires using a differential equation that I hate solving, so you'll just have to trust that for most cases, water > no water.
On the flip side, if you had your cooler floating in midair and wrapped in a space blanket, you kight actually want to drain the water. I don't know how you'd drain the water while keeping it completely covered in a space blanket, but there you go
How about a solid block of ice vs cubes. Like others have said, the cold water completely surrounding the beverages will keep them colder with full contact of the 32 degree water. We camped in Utah with a big igloo cooler. Ice cubes melted and the cooler got warm much quicker than when we bought block ice.
You mean a test showing the temperature differences of the water?
@@CoolersOnSale kind of, but not exactly. I believe the solid block should melt slower then the cube ice. Based on our experience the combo of cube with the block ice lasted longer by more than a day compared to cubes only. The cubes melted first but the block lasted longer keeping the water at 32 degrees. Our drinks and food stayed ice cold. One or the other alone was not as good as the combo.
Science time! Let's assume you have freezing temp (but not frozen) water and freezing temp (but not melting) ice. If you have the same amounts from one cooler to the next, they have mathematically the same thermal mass. Where they start to diverge is when you have colder than freezing temp ice or slightly above freezing water, which human skin cannot differentiate accurately. What likely happened here is the big block of ice is cold as shit in the middle due to how it was formed which completely negates the original premise of "equal starting points". As a result, giant chunk of ice might work out for you better in practice than in theory, but not for the reasons stated in this video.
Drain the water - but not by opening the lid! Both coolers are same temperature until all ice melts. Water speeds heat loss through walls. And it makes contents soggy. And do the test with half the volume filled with... food!
Yes it was almost the same and who wants soggy food lmao I could understand if you just had drinks
Update; when the ice melts go buy more ice.
Actually a drink submerged in ice water will be colder than a drink submerged in solid ice because the ice water is covering the whole bottle every f****** part of it, the ice does not
Leaving the drain open and adding rock salt to the ice is the easiest way of getting things colder for beer and ice cream.
Will try this.
Mywindow it will actually freeze the beer, but it's extremely quick and ice cold beer is by far better
Mywindow this
changes the time it take to get "cold"
Did you try leaving the drain plug semi open so that the water can drain slowly over time?
We haven't tested that, but we can.
That's what we do on our jobs.
4 to 8 guys and we go thru at least 1 of the 24 packs of waters per cooler each day in the summertime.
Its cleaner and seems to last longer.
When the waters are submerged they taste off sometimes.
Try adding salt to the cooler without draining. This helps the water stay cooler and may prolong the ice melting.
That's not how salt works. The ice would melt at a lower temperature. So yeah the temperature will drop but the total thermal energy in the system wouldn't change. It wouldn't keep food safe for longer than unsalted ice. Human intuition says colder = better but the actual numbers don't change the end result.
Drain the water if you need to move the cooler or if you’re gonna add more ice. Otherwise I wouldn’t drain it.
Wish some one would do a video on how to install a drain plug on a 28 quart,why is there no drain plug?? C'mon really? Like, did some one in the design department forget that eventually these coolers hold water too??
If were just keeping drinks in the cooler, i dont mind having water sit around, but most times we'll have food and if there's water in the cooler, it'll be come waterlogged no matter how many ziplock bags we use. Therefore, i've just gotten in the habit of draining the water. This last time we went camping, we collected it and used it for showering since we were beach camping. Worked out great, quick shower at the end of the day with nice cold water.
Good info, going on a fishing trip soon.
Thanks!
If you don't need to move the cooler than there's no need to drain the water for weight issues. The cold water adds thermal mass and will add time to the clock on keeping your stuff cold. If your food gets soggy you are doing it wrong. All perishables should be double bagged and moved to the top of the pile, above the water. Last but not least, keep your cooler out of the sun. If you don't have shade then throw a blanket or jacket over it.
Come to eastern n.c. In August and the ice want last 2 days in the cooler.
Can't be worse than FL in the middle of summer, see an updated version here: www.coolersonsale.com/cheap-coolers-best-budget-cooler-based-on-performance/
When I travel on the road, I take a lot of home cooked food in rubbermaid containers. I drain water every morning, and than top off ice everyday. I don' t like my food floating in water or water making their way into my food containers. I usually am out for 10-12 days. Point is, drain the water if you have the option to top it off with ice.
Keep the water in and enjoy your soggy food. Cheers!
Great information
Good stuff. Thx for sharing.
Thanks for watching
I live year round in a truck camper. Very basic no bathroom. And no carying poop or pee on the road.
I drain my cooler daily and USE THIS WATER to clean dishes with.
Do people throw this water away?!
Looks like the bottom line is if you're only going to use the cooler for canned and bottled liquid beverages, then it's better to leave the water in. But if you're using the cooler for food items that you don't want water intrusion, like open packs of lunch meat cheese Hot dogs etc? Then it's best to drain. A side note. Even storing your foods inside freezer bags or sandwich bags inside a cooler that's not drained does not guarantee your food will not be water saturated. Sandwich and freezer bags leak.
You're dumping water out with a temp 0f 32F id there's any ice left so you're throwing away cold.
I drain some of the water out after a couple days. Just dont like dunking my hand in a ton of water then have a soaked dripping can once i pull one out. But i let some water stay in cause i always felt the cans stayed colder in ice water and ice
Digging your hand around in ice water looking for a can would add more heat to the cooler than digging your hand around in just ice. Oh no, the test is getting more and more complicated
I leave the water in my cooler. Who cares about the ice, it is the internal temperature that matters. My drinks are colder when I keep the water in.
You also had the lid open while draining the water, thus allowing more warm air into the cooler.
If you don't open the lid while draining, it often creates a suction on the lid.
Coolers On Sale
Lids in both should be open for consistent time periods then.
How do you feel about putting dry ice on the bottom with regular on on top and then whatever you want to keep cool on top to make the ice last the longest?
We reviewed dry ice vs regular ice here: www.coolersonsale.com/how-to-use-dry-ice-in-a-cooler/ but to answer your question... you need to be careful with how you use it. If it makes the contents inside too cold then problems arise. It certainly can work to prolong the life of ice, but so too can ice packs.
Coolers On Sale awesome. I put dry ice on the bottom of my ice mule and then ice on top and it ruined my ice mule, but ice mule replaced it free of charge which is awesome!
So I feel your test doesn’t closely represent actual usage . Two cans? That’s so away from the typical use of a cooler that size that those presence or absence are irrelevant to the final results
Another to consider is this. Do you have the ability to refill the ice? If so drain and fill will give you a lower temp for a longer time. If not then it’s best to keep the water since the water is going to be colder than the air that gets cycled every time the case is opened
If you are draining water and adding ice regularly consider using that water for evaporation cooling. Cover or tent the cooler with a towel or clothe and then saturate it with water the evaporation process will draw heat away from the cooler especially if you place it coolers in a shaded but breezy area
The point of the test was to have an even playing field across all coolers. If we were to fill every cooler with contents for a camping trip, we would be eating a hell of a lot of burgers and drinking a lot of beer every day to simulate actual use. On a second thought, this actually sounds quite intriguing.
Coolers On Sale no matter how many coolers you have, you want as little air as possible in the cooler so overtime as your consumables diminish, consolidate the remaining consumables and deactivate those without consumables. Maybe consider ice chest for meats and other perishable food, and water (ice melt) chest for canned beverages.
The cooling by evaporations has been a technique long known by the military.
Their punching bags drinking water bags are are either semi porous or have a rough weave canvas or terryclothe cover that gets soaked in water.
You can also create a cold pantry by using a wire frame box first covered in plastic sheeting then cloth, then saturated with water. Food can then be stored in the boxes and kept cool by the evaporation of the water in the cloth, but you always have to keep the cloth damp once it dries out the box will quickly heat up
steven heckert can’t really bring a ice chest or build a cold pantry whatchmacallit for beer camping beach trip.
PRETTY KOOL TEST & TUTORIAL AZ WELL 👏🏼
( KNUCKLE👊🏽BUMP ) Coolers On Sale.....
Thanks!
Your Best results are to separate the water from the ice! That way the Ice structure is retained and the temp is lower. A top tray with a simple screen draining to a lower container (Ice at the top maintains more even temps throughout the container) . That is what we do for medical samples in the wild. Products don't need to be in contact with the Ice or water unless you need rapid cooling.
In Reality... Most of us who drain the water also add more ice as the weekend goes on. OR, if you leave the water in there, you will still add more ice as the weekend goes on. On a 5 day camping trip I will add at least 2 more bags of ice. I have this cooler and honestly I've added no more than 3 bags. That's because of it constantly being opened and closed. Several years ago we started using one cooler for drinks and the other for food stuff.
Water is more dense than air, so it will take longer for the temperature to change/ increase
I purchased a $900 yeti because I HATE wasting a $3.99 bag of ice
What about just leaving the drain barely open all the time so it stays drained/dry? Also what about a smaller portion of dry ice mixed in? Will that prevent the exploding soda cans?
What if you add another bag of ice, to both on day 4 , snag would that change. Long term is what im looking for. Should I drain or not?
Keeping the water in means you have more mass, when you drain it you lose some mass. Everyone knows bigger bodys of water take longer to warm up. How was this a surprise?
Apparently everybody doesn't know.
Why take someones word for it when you can test that theory yourself?
Charles Karl it’s not a theory.
Charles Karl Because thermodynamics don't change. Science is cool like that.
is it really as simple as that? there are no other factors that could alter it?
You didnt mention if you precooled the coolers or the ice. Also, it looks like I saw some shadows from the trees, maybe one was in the shade more than the other in the evenings?
No, these coolers were not pre-chilled. We set the coolers in a location that gets even amount of sun throughout the day.
This ‘test’ shows one point-for ice retention it makes basically no difference. It is possible that the drained cooler might have kept the ice longer as more heat was introduced as the lid was open during the draining process. He did not show or say if this was controlled or not. Therefore if your cooler is on one location or you do not have to pick it up and move it leave the water in it. If you have to carry your cooler get rid of that extra weight and drain the water, your back will be happier!
Could it be the cooler efficiency? Try the test with a cheaper cooler. My 20lb bag lasts about 24hrs.
depends if you are worried if your food items will get soaked in water my guess.Dad preferred big ice blocks and we made them by freezing in buckets then he just cracked them with a hammer to fit and lasted a good week in the chest.
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Is it better to leave ice in the bag or empty the ice out of the bag?
I believe items cool faster when submerged in ice water. Just ice doesn’t cover more surface area than water. To much air. The test you need to do is how long does it take to cool a can of soda in both scenarios. That would be the deciding factor on keeping water or not.
That is true, it will cool items faster, but we wanted to test which holds ice longest.
I have that cooler. Great product
I usually keep the water in mine unless I'm adding ice then I will drain it but thanks for the video
Great 👍 video
If in a vehicle on the trail it needs to be drained,to keep you from going insane and the water sloshing will melt it quicker.
How about clear ice? How well does that do?
Good info! Thanks
Thanks for watching!
Would liked to have seen inside temperatures on both coolers
Next question is should you leave the ice in the bag it came ? in or take it out....
Thats crazy! great video guys
My goal is to keep it as cold as possible for as long as possible. I'll drain, and top off with ice. I have that same cooler and that method keeps things cold a long time.
What about adding salt
We haven't noticed significant longer ice retention times using salt.
You should do one and leave the drain on on cracked so it won’t accumulate water at all and see what happens. Just a suggestion. I’ve had good luck with this practice
Any plans on testing a Kong 50 against the Engel?
So how about just leaving the drain valve open
exactly
Very interesting!
Thanks for watching!
The only thing the I was very mostly impress dat a $97 walmart cooler made the ice last for about 5 days.
The 77qt held ice even longer. See that video here: www.coolersonsale.com/lifetime-cooler-review-28-55-77-qt-coolers/
Dats? Auwsome!
Dats? So awesome!
Drain your water to a level below the point where certain foods inside will get ruined or contaminate other contents if compromised. An open package of bacon, for example.
I can’t get my lifetime cooler to keep ice for more than 3 days regardless
That is due to the fact that you are so HOT AND SEXY!!!!!
You need a new cooler then
Well, what’s y’alls opinion on those 55 Lifetimes? I can pick one up at my WALMART for $97, good deal?
We're testing it right now; as of today its lasted 5 Full Days. However, we are testing rotomolded coolers alongside, and the Lifetime will definitely run out before the rotomolded coolers. Additionally, the lid is not as sturdy, so we wouldn't recommend sitting/standing on this cooler like you can other coolers. But then again, its only $100 so in the end not too shabby. We will have a full review coming up in the next couple weeks.
It lasted 7 Full days. Afternoon temps 78-84, lid temps were hitting 100°+ every day of the test.
No, it is not rotomolded. Lifetime are "Blow Molded" cooler
Yea, that could be the case; its just that there is some sagging on the top part of the cooler lid. You can feel it compress/sag down when you sit on it. I'll show this in the video.
Pointhunter75 it holds my 300 pounds
I find it's a lot easier to keep my water cold than try to keep ice. I just put two or three frozen powerade bottles in with ice, once the ice is melted, the bottles keep the water icey cold for like three days.
For once I have to disagree with you.
I have a 50 quart lifetime cooler on my truck. It will hold 24 water bottles and 20# of ice for 5 days. Ice is almost always depleted the 5th night but without draining it I buy another work day without paying for ice.
Yes the water is still ice cold at quitting time Saturday evening . If I were to drain it each day what little water was left would not keep my drinking water cold.
This is important cause I don't work on Sunday's so no need for cold water on that day. Buy a new bag Monday morning grab a new case of water out the fridge and start all over again.
You can easily a bottom mesh of material an do both
In my youth I left the water /ice in the cooler and it ruined it completely ! Oh yeah I live in Upstate NY and it was winter ! FROZE !
Retaining ice is a simplistic way of looking at things. Not draining will clearly keep the cooler longer. If the water you dump out is cold you are losing out on using that to cool the cooler.
Weight and keeping food dry are other factors.
Is this a 60 quart?
Is it or not?
55 Qt: amzn.to/2VnDy8C
In Miami that ice would last hours not days. Lol. Year round
See an updated version here in much hotter temps: www.coolersonsale.com/cheap-coolers-best-budget-cooler-based-on-performance/
What cooler would you recommend for 240qt cooler
Orca
I don't think Orca makes a 240qt. Engel does, and they make quality products.
Every time you drained the water out of the one ice chest, you had the lid open which let out the cold air.
Noble Prize for ya!
Keep the water. It stays cold a long time even after ice is melted
mass it does a therm good
Icewater is best
Damn those coolers work good 5 6 days thats good regardless. I'm hoping to make it 3 days. I guess all be aight..
Great video thank you so much for sharing. I have a Coleman Ultimate that I purchased in the mid-80s. It had no drain plug as the instructions stated keeping the water in with the ice would keep things cooler. Your video just confirm that! And yes by the way I still have the cooler! Also new subscriber thank you again!