Sure. You'll notice though, He doesn't say any of them were divorces. She could have been widowed five times and given up or run out of unmarried brothers from her husband.
I do not see a flaw in your statements, (other than the phrase "premartial sex" doesn't appear in the Bible, but "fornication" does - but the other points cover that). I do, however, want to ask a follow-up question about Leah. Jacob went into the tent to "know his wife" and BEHOLD! It was Leah! So, like, he was tricked into marrying her, and the marriage act seems to have been sex. What am I missing here?
@@rogerbrady2003rab No. I am asking how can you have a commitment to someone you didn't intend to marry? How can you make a vow to someone who you think is a completely different person? It seems to me like what made it a marriage wasn't any trust or commitment or choice that Jacob made - it was that he had sex with her, and was therefore stuck.
That one is a bit more complicated, my understanding is that according to customs of the time (not the Bible), that the older daughter would have to be married off first. Jacob should have realized that before the ceremony or at least taken a head count. However, I have really struggled with this story as well, I have great difficulty with oaths taken under false pretenses, especially when one of the parties full well knows that they are deceiving the other. In a way I point to this story as a cautionary tale about how men should approach any type of oath, especially since there is a very high expectation that they will fulfill it once made. One thing though is don't feel too bad for Jacob as he was gaming his uncle as well and cross breading the uncle's heard in order to increase his own. I guess this entire story can also be used as a cautionary about when two men are working for their own goals and some of the unethical things they my do to one another.
Martin Luther’s 5 sermons on marriage explain all this. Fornication is NOT “premarital sex”. Our definitions in the US and the West are WRONG, and based on Romanism. The Law itself spells out what fornication is but Christian pastors Never go to the OT Laws for the definitions. This is why we also get adultery wrong. It literally meant “wife-stealing”, so if a man, even married, took an UNmarried woman, he wasn’t committing adultery. According to the Law, if he kept her, she was his new WIFE, in addition to his other wife. Exodus 21:10
The marriage arrangement comes from God and He instituted it when he brought the first human couple together. (Genesis 2:22-24) He did not intend for a man and a woman to live together without the commitment of marriage. Sex outside of legal marriage is fornication.
If sex is all it takes to be married, then one is married to everyone they have had sex with. Marriage comes with responsibility, and most of us would prefer to be free fron responsibility. That is why premarital sex exists.
Great question! I've raised this with many believers whom gave very different answers. Yes alternatively the matrimony of someone whom has not consecrated the marriage by having sexual relations is still considered a marriage. Such as Joseph and Mary; he was instructed to still marry her but not to 'know' her until she gave birth to the Messiah. So the ceremonial covenant part is very crucial. My follow up question to this is, does it matter whether the ceremony was done under pagan rites or by the state, is it still a marriage in God's eyes?
"What God has joined together, let no one separate". If God can use evil to bring good (Romans 8:28), He can certainly join two people together using pagan or state authority if that gets His ultimate will done. It could be said they married against God's will, but since the Lord does miracles, how are you going to judge that from case to case? The state? Why would God not recognize a state marriage since He gave us government. It is a good question, but the result is people would use such a scenario to commit adultery, and likely murder, when their temptations take over.
@@deanfry879 yes, thank you for answering my question. I agree with this. Reminds me of the situation in the old testament when the Israelites were inter marrying.God forbade it but they still did it and we saw what happened. They probably were marrying under pagan customs also. If it was not recognized, it may not have been forbidden.
@@deanfry879 I agree too. I just want to answer your hypothetical question: The purpose of the state is to use the power of the sword to punish evil, to settle disputes, and to defend the land against enemies. That makes the government getting involved in marriage an overreach.
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan The state is also about keeping the public peace. There needs to be some sort of deterent if someone decides it is within their interests to take your wife. There needs to be some way for the state to recognize who your wife is, but indeed, anything beyond that is overreach.
@@deanfry879 Well, that would fall under disputes I suppose. Frankly, if somebody is going to take my wife, then that will make her _his_ problem. The state can take your word for it that you're married. There is no sense in authorizing the state to form it.
I think this is a great topic. I’ve wondered about this, did the woman at the well go through 5 wedding ceremonies or did she just have 5 partners over a period of time? -Was Isaac married because he took Rebecca into his tent and was comforted? -What constituted marriage back in the day, as opposed to today, is it necessary to make vows before God and man( in our legal system) or just before God alone? -If it was culturally acceptable to have more than one wife back then, is it still acceptable if it is your culture today?
Thus seems to be exegete from a cultural perspective and halfly biblical. Go to the laws of sexuallity. If somwone have sex with a virgin not his wife etc. Yes, sex in the eyes of God is marriage. Having sex with multiple people is a sin that affects the soul of the individual(s) like no other sin. There are arranged marriages that are committed relationships and likewise that with a ceremony. Butbin the eyes of God, it is the act, one flesh, until death do you part. Because of a view that sex does not consitute marriage in the eyes of God. Virginity is looked down upon and seems unnecessary. But the truth is those who wait until marriage to for sex whether Christian or not. Will have less baggage to deal with in their marriage.
The Scriptures also refer to Hagar as a slave, so she is not a person with all the rights of a wife. God's revelation of Himself then was not as much as today; the people of that time had practices we would not even think of today. It makes their culture harder to understand, though I think, not impossible.
I think because it isn't defined what constitutes the act of marriage outside of commitment. So can you make vows before God and be married or does it also require the recognition from the secular state? A person might ask this and not be referring to casual hookups or a young person, not yet fully educated in scripture might ask this. There are legitimate questions that people have and are not really addressed here.
The Bible doesn't actually have any warnings against premarital sex . . . . The quote from Paul is about adultery, but it doesn't actually undercut the idea that "becoming one flesh" is the physical act.
@@LanLe-rz4lm Maybe you will not find the term "premarital sex" in the Scriptures, but you can find the definition. And is not premarital a subset of nonmarital?
@@deanfry879 you find marriage that’s fulfilled by sex (consummation), defined by sex, and sex without the benefit of marriage (not sticking together to grow), sex that can’t grow because people are sticking it or receiving it, with the wrong flesh (fornications - plural). We have to use the language and mindset given by the text/hebrew mind, which was NOT today’s western way. There was no sin called pre-marital sex; if a man took a virgin, without the father’s permission, it wasn’t called a sin, but maybe a trespass; this differed if she was a slave or free… what’s it called now??! Again read the Jewish Encyclopedia, along with the sermons by Luther who defined the terms. If you try to think with our western words they told us to use today, you’ll get it wrong, by design. We were supposed to be confused. And read the sex/marriage laws for yourself in Leviticus and Exodus. There were 8 kinds of “marriage” all done differently. Levirate/kinsman redeemer, polygny, concubinage, etc.
@@LanLe-rz4lm So what you are saying is synonymous words or terms should not be used. If Moses allowed us divorce because our hearts are hard, then how many of the eight types of marriage you site are also given to us due to hard hearts?
Marriage - the binding of a man and woman in the eyes of God. Union - the binding of two people in the eyes of the state. The Supreme Court made a big mistake by using the same word to define both concepts.
I would say yes. Doing the right thing in the end doesn't undo the wrong thing that began. It's like any person who gets caught doing something wrong, they say sorry and say that they can make it right. But by this point the wrong/mistake/sin has already been committed. But thanks be to God that there is forgiveness and grace for all our mistakes. Jesus died for the sins we commit so that we could be made new into the "righteousness of God".
@@anfiach How about, "In the testimony of two or three witnesses every fact is established". The prosecution always goes first. The remarks are only the conclusion without, ironically, the logic of how they got there. They still have to prove their logic is sound.
They don't have to prove anything to you in a youtube comment. If you disagree just say so. You're just looking for conflict here and spitting random verses at the problem will not make you more correct.
John 4:18 (NLT)
for you have had five husbands, and you aren’t even married to the man you’re living with now. You certainly spoke the truth!”
Sure.
You'll notice though, He doesn't say any of them were divorces. She could have been widowed five times and given up or run out of unmarried brothers from her husband.
I do not see a flaw in your statements, (other than the phrase "premartial sex" doesn't appear in the Bible, but "fornication" does - but the other points cover that). I do, however, want to ask a follow-up question about Leah. Jacob went into the tent to "know his wife" and BEHOLD! It was Leah! So, like, he was tricked into marrying her, and the marriage act seems to have been sex. What am I missing here?
So are you asking if there was a marriage reception thrown or not?
@@rogerbrady2003rab No. I am asking how can you have a commitment to someone you didn't intend to marry? How can you make a vow to someone who you think is a completely different person? It seems to me like what made it a marriage wasn't any trust or commitment or choice that Jacob made - it was that he had sex with her, and was therefore stuck.
Ok I noticed that you are using words like tricked, stuck, and intend to marry. What are you basing these things on?
@@rogerbrady2003rab ... Seriously? Um... the Bible?
Genesis 29:25
If you don't know the story, please don't talk about it.
That one is a bit more complicated, my understanding is that according to customs of the time (not the Bible), that the older daughter would have to be married off first. Jacob should have realized that before the ceremony or at least taken a head count. However, I have really struggled with this story as well, I have great difficulty with oaths taken under false pretenses, especially when one of the parties full well knows that they are deceiving the other. In a way I point to this story as a cautionary tale about how men should approach any type of oath, especially since there is a very high expectation that they will fulfill it once made.
One thing though is don't feel too bad for Jacob as he was gaming his uncle as well and cross breading the uncle's heard in order to increase his own. I guess this entire story can also be used as a cautionary about when two men are working for their own goals and some of the unethical things they my do to one another.
No. That's called fornication.
Martin Luther’s 5 sermons on marriage explain all this. Fornication is NOT “premarital sex”. Our definitions in the US and the West are WRONG, and based on Romanism.
The Law itself spells out what fornication is but Christian pastors Never go to the OT Laws for the definitions. This is why we also get adultery wrong. It literally meant “wife-stealing”, so if a man, even married, took an UNmarried woman, he wasn’t committing adultery. According to the Law, if he kept her, she was his new WIFE, in addition to his other wife. Exodus 21:10
For many of these comments, PLEASE show God's Word as evidence otherwise it's just random opinions about this topic.
The marriage arrangement comes from God and He instituted it when he brought the first human couple together. (Genesis 2:22-24) He did not intend for a man and a woman to live together without the commitment of marriage. Sex outside of legal marriage is fornication.
@@sunnyjohnson992 Amen
If sex is all it takes to be married, then one is married to everyone they have had sex with. Marriage comes with responsibility, and most of us would prefer to be free fron responsibility. That is why premarital sex exists.
GENESIS 24:67
Great question! I've raised this with many believers whom gave very different answers. Yes alternatively the matrimony of someone whom has not consecrated the marriage by having sexual relations is still considered a marriage. Such as Joseph and Mary; he was instructed to still marry her but not to 'know' her until she gave birth to the Messiah. So the ceremonial covenant part is very crucial. My follow up question to this is, does it matter whether the ceremony was done under pagan rites or by the state, is it still a marriage in God's eyes?
"What God has joined together, let no one separate". If God can use evil to bring good (Romans 8:28), He can certainly join two people together using pagan or state authority if that gets His ultimate will done. It could be said they married against God's will, but since the Lord does miracles, how are you going to judge that from case to case? The state? Why would God not recognize a state marriage since He gave us government. It is a good question, but the result is people would use such a scenario to commit adultery, and likely murder, when their temptations take over.
@@deanfry879 yes, thank you for answering my question. I agree with this. Reminds me of the situation in the old testament when the Israelites were inter marrying.God forbade it but they still did it and we saw what happened. They probably were marrying under pagan customs also. If it was not recognized, it may not have been forbidden.
@@deanfry879
I agree too.
I just want to answer your hypothetical question: The purpose of the state is to use the power of the sword to punish evil, to settle disputes, and to defend the land against enemies. That makes the government getting involved in marriage an overreach.
@@joshuakarr-BibleMan The state is also about keeping the public peace. There needs to be some sort of deterent if someone decides it is within their interests to take your wife. There needs to be some way for the state to recognize who your wife is, but indeed, anything beyond that is overreach.
@@deanfry879
Well, that would fall under disputes I suppose.
Frankly, if somebody is going to take my wife, then that will make her _his_ problem.
The state can take your word for it that you're married. There is no sense in authorizing the state to form it.
I think this is a great topic. I’ve wondered about this, did the woman at the well go through 5 wedding ceremonies or did she just have 5 partners over a period of time?
-Was Isaac married because he took Rebecca into his tent and was comforted?
-What constituted marriage back in the day, as opposed to today, is it necessary to make vows before God and man( in our legal system) or just before God alone?
-If it was culturally acceptable to have more than one wife back then, is it still acceptable if it is your culture today?
Thus seems to be exegete from a cultural perspective and halfly biblical.
Go to the laws of sexuallity. If somwone have sex with a virgin not his wife etc. Yes, sex in the eyes of God is marriage. Having sex with multiple people is a sin that affects the soul of the individual(s) like no other sin.
There are arranged marriages that are committed relationships and likewise that with a ceremony.
Butbin the eyes of God, it is the act, one flesh, until death do you part.
Because of a view that sex does not consitute marriage in the eyes of God. Virginity is looked down upon and seems unnecessary.
But the truth is those who wait until marriage to for sex whether Christian or not. Will have less baggage to deal with in their marriage.
What if 2 people live together and have kids. But not married. After a while does God consider them married or is the ceremony required? Just curious.
The ceremony is required plus can't really break. It's a declaration before God.
There are places in this world that have what are called "common law marriages". But not in US law.
Just get married
What about Abraham and Hagar? Did they have a ceremony or commit? Because the Bible refers to her as Abraham's wife...
The Scriptures also refer to Hagar as a slave, so she is not a person with all the rights of a wife. God's revelation of Himself then was not as much as today; the people of that time had practices we would not even think of today. It makes their culture harder to understand, though I think, not impossible.
I love this resource for Christians.
Sex does equal marriage. Period.
You are correct.
Exceot that the law has nothing to do with Biblically defined marriage.
That oart you made up.
Thank you!
No.
Cant even become a Christian while wilfully living in sin. Also, immersion is required in the process of converting to Christianity.
So you do not believe any lies about anything or anyone.
It's really sad that this is a sincere question🤦
Why would people think this. It is indeed disrespectful towards the institution of marriage
I think because it isn't defined what constitutes the act of marriage outside of commitment. So can you make vows before God and be married or does it also require the recognition from the secular state? A person might ask this and not be referring to casual hookups or a young person, not yet fully educated in scripture might ask this. There are legitimate questions that people have and are not really addressed here.
Amen 🙏
Job 13:7
The Bible doesn't actually have any warnings against premarital sex . . . . The quote from Paul is about adultery, but it doesn't actually undercut the idea that "becoming one flesh" is the physical act.
Not at all! The man was only required to marry the girl and pay the bride price. That sounds like a significant warning to me.
There isn’t “premarital sex” in the Bible, only marital and non-marital sex, based on the intention/agreement of each party.
@@LanLe-rz4lm Maybe you will not find the term "premarital sex" in the Scriptures, but you can find the definition. And is not premarital a subset of nonmarital?
@@deanfry879 you find marriage that’s fulfilled by sex (consummation), defined by sex, and sex without the benefit of marriage (not sticking together to grow), sex that can’t grow because people are sticking it or receiving it, with the wrong flesh (fornications - plural).
We have to use the language and mindset given by the text/hebrew mind, which was NOT today’s western way.
There was no sin called pre-marital sex; if a man took a virgin, without the father’s permission, it wasn’t called a sin, but maybe a trespass; this differed if she was a slave or free… what’s it called now??! Again read the Jewish Encyclopedia, along with the sermons by Luther who defined the terms. If you try to think with our western words they told us to use today, you’ll get it wrong, by design. We were supposed to be confused.
And read the sex/marriage laws for yourself in Leviticus and Exodus.
There were 8 kinds of “marriage” all done differently. Levirate/kinsman redeemer, polygny, concubinage, etc.
@@LanLe-rz4lm So what you are saying is synonymous words or terms should not be used. If Moses allowed us divorce because our hearts are hard, then how many of the eight types of marriage you site are also given to us due to hard hearts?
What's marriage?
Marriage - the binding of a man and woman in the eyes of God.
Union - the binding of two people in the eyes of the state.
The Supreme Court made a big mistake by using the same word to define both concepts.
Is it still a sin if the couple get married?
I would say yes. Doing the right thing in the end doesn't undo the wrong thing that began. It's like any person who gets caught doing something wrong, they say sorry and say that they can make it right. But by this point the wrong/mistake/sin has already been committed.
But thanks be to God that there is forgiveness and grace for all our mistakes. Jesus died for the sins we commit so that we could be made new into the "righteousness of God".
That would be called repentance. To make it a non-sin would required going back in time, which we are not allowed.
Yes.
My wife and I thought we could get away with it because we were engaged, but our marriage is badly damaged from my weakness.
There so many holes in the logic of this video. It’s also not consistent with the heart of scripture
Why would I believe you if you do not back your claim with any evidence we can judge for ourselves.
For example?
@@deanfry879 shall they retype the Bible here for you or can you read it for yourself at home?
@@anfiach How about, "In the testimony of two or three witnesses every fact is established". The prosecution always goes first. The remarks are only the conclusion without, ironically, the logic of how they got there. They still have to prove their logic is sound.
They don't have to prove anything to you in a youtube comment. If you disagree just say so. You're just looking for conflict here and spitting random verses at the problem will not make you more correct.