Top 5 Best Commanders | Game of Thrones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Who was the best Military Commander in Game of Thrones? Robb Stark? Stannis? Tywin? What makes a good General?
Well sit back and relax, because we have the answers for all those questions.
*Before you ask, no Khal Drogo because he never stepped foot on Westeros...
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Personally I think that Grey Worm is MASSIVELY overhyped. He’s an excellent soldier due to his skills and upbringing but we never see him make any tactical decisions that qualify him as a commander. His superior just send him in a specific direction and wait for him to come back.
Same thing as Robert Baratheon. I guarantee you give them complete control over their armies with no other influence and they would fail badly. They’re leaders that lead through actions, not strategy. They thrived through the advice of better leaders than themselves.
I just finished the whole thing
Did Danny seriously turn him into a master before dying. 😭 I don't know if that's his ending but it's dirty.
Exactly! He's perfect soldier, but that's it
The idea of Unsullied is to erase any initiative or thinking process in them, their buyer was supposed to give them orders
Let alone Unsullied shield formation is the only tactic he could possibly know, so he would be useless in charge of Northern army, for example
Of course he gets more expirience during his time with Dany, but as we could see from trebuchets plascment - tactics still are not his strong side
Don't get me wrong, he's one of my favourite characters, but ranking him higher then Tywin is straight up warcrime
Tactics and decisions are 2 different things. What you're referring to is strategy. Grey worm and the unsullied are extremely successful because they're drilled in a very specific set of tactics. The issue is they have no strategy if there isn't another commander implementing one for them.
@@DeionSC2 not even tactics. He is successful because it's death or win for them.
honestly had Robb inherited from his namestake the ability to sleep with a chick and forget her name he might have won
😂😂😂 absolutely true, I think the Karstarks was also a bit of an issue as well though! Thanks for watching as always David! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips The Karstarks were kind of the last straw in terms of Robb (and Cat's) mistakes. But on their own not the worst. The worst is sending Theon off, followed by 'letting Jaime go'. Without Theon, the Iron Islands probably don't take Winterfell and as long as Jaime is a hostage; the worst case scenario is Robb is taken prisoner. Marrying Jeyne though was super dumb and showed to even those who stayed loyal Robb would put his personal interests above their cause's needs which definitely remains a problem.
@@davidlewis5312I kinda thought if Theon would have stayed with Robb in the Westerlands he would have talked him down from the Jeyne thing. If he had an ironborn near by to convince him that she is spoils it might have played out a tad differently
Hard to give the Unsullied credit in command, as by their own words, "We Obey."
Now with Robert, he undoubtedly won the war but he did also hold vast advantage with The North, Riverlands, Vale, and Storm lands behind him against only The Crownlands, Reach, and Dorne (the weakest of the realms). The Westerlands stayed out of the rebellion for most of it. Interesting what may have happened of Lord Tywin had remained loyal to Ayers (though he had no reason to.)
He made several mistakes, imcluding how he handled the Karstarks and Roose. He should have listened to Roose, while simutaniously be more warry and he should have kept the Karstarks as close allies.
I need the 40 minutes plus videos that break down the topic in maximum detail not these short ones
Be grateful.
Crikey. 7 save us. 😂 - Thom
Yes pls
Thought the same thing
Put play speed at 0.5x for 45 minutes of glorious video
In my head Tarly is very much like the duke of wellington. Nothing truly brilliant there but pure competency in staying calm and trusting the theory with resolve to win the day. He definitely will never "fuck up" but won't take mad risks that result in great victories either.
Thats kind of our thoughts too, I should not have snubbed him on the orginal list in fairness, sometimes a calm head and pure plain competentance is whats needed. Thanks for watching! Liam
Wellington was better in defence than attack, but the Battles of Assaye and Salamanca, while not being on the level of a masterpiece like Austerlitz, were both great offensive victories.
I actually disagree on the Grey Worm part(in the books especially). The three battles they took part in the books were:
1) The Battle of Yunkai
The sellswords betrayed the masters, and it wasn't Grey Worm who came up with the plan of attacking in the night.
2) The First Siege of Meereen
Again, he wasn't in command, and the main reason Daenerys's forces won was because of Ser Barristan Selmy and Jorah Mormont's sneak attack through the sewers, which, again, wasn't his idea.
3) The Second Siege of Meereen/The Battle of Fire
Outcome inconclusive, but probably a victory. Ser Barristan the Bold was the commander in this one, and the victory would also be attributed to Victarion's arrival and Tyrion swaying the Second Sons.
In the show, the first two are the same, but there are others as well:
1) The Second Siege of Meereen(show version)
Mostly won by the Dothraki and the dragons, plus the masters being complete idiots. I don't even recall the unsullied doing anything.
2) The Siege of Casterly Rock
The only one where the win could be attributed to him, but was it that impressive really? Using spear infantry to storm the walls is kinda stupid, and doubtless caused uneeded casualties. Sneaking through a back door entrance is clever, but not exactly brilliant, and you'd assume anyone who possesses information of such an entrance would definitely take advantage of it. Also he failed to prepare for the Iron Fleet's attack, which leaves another stain on his record (though Euron was cheating using teleportation cheat codes).
3) The Battle of Winterfell/The Long Night
Coming up with, or willfully ignoring the glaring flaws in the battle plans for this one should automatically drop anyone out the running for the top 5.
4) The "Siege" of King's Landing
Won by Dany and her dragons, need I say more.
All in all the reason for success, if it could even be attributed to him, was due to he commanding the Unsullied, not because he ever showed any brilliance as a commander. And if we're critically examining these battles, I cannot justify putting him above Tarly or Tywin.
About the battle of fire I dont thing they will won ,Ser Barristan and Greywarm had serve their part of the story , Danerys will arrive too late to save them but she will go foward with the Greyjoys and Tyrion who I expect to arrive în Mereen after the battle is over
@@flavius5722 Tyrion and Victarion are already outside Meereen in the sample chapters of TWOW, though.
Wasnt Casterly Rock also a sacrificial pawn to get the Unsullied all the way at the end of the other side of Westeros to weaken Queen Daenery’s army and allow Jaime and Randyll Tarly and opportunity to crush Highgarden
@@D2attemp That was in the show? I've haven't seen it, only read the books, but I've absorbed quite a lot through cultural osmosis, and I've never that being directly mentioned as being the case.
@@KaiHung-wv3ulyeah that was in the show. Basically the Lannisters left Casterly Rock unprotected and instead seized the opportunity to wipe out the Tyrells. They knew they were sacrificing the Rock so yeah that victory is kind of bogus for Grey Worm if you wanna get technical
I would argue that Tarly didn’t have the authority to go after Robert as he is not in command of the army just the vanguard and Mace the ace wanted to siege storms end
1. Randyl Tarly broke Robert’s army and scattered them at Ashford
2. He separated Robert from them and forced him to flee north into the vicinity of Jon Connington and the crownland forces
3. He was stopped by mace Tyrell when attempting to Pursue Robert, Mace didn’t want to risk his military record and instead added Tarly’s forces to his siege of Storms end.
Most the faults you attribute to Tarly are Mace Tyrell’s Orders.
Yeah, they fault Randall for things out of his control, but give Grey Worm props for things that weren't his decision
It’s like the guy making these videos didn’t do any research at all lol
Robert has the charm of Renly and the tactics of Stannis. Thats why he’s king and the younger two have failed (or as of yet failed) to do so.
No, Robert HAD the tactics of Stannis and the charm of Renly during the war for the throne. Once he killed Rhaegar, Lyanna had died and the war was won, he became a bitter alcoholic, only briefly returning to his former glory during the Greyjoy Rebellion 10+ years prior to the first book/season. Robert in all of the books we have read was an abusive drunk that knew he was too far gone to lead a nation so he left it to his advisors completely, resorting to spending most of his days drinking and abusing and fucking prostitutes.
But if Tywin had been in command at Stoney Sept instead of Connington, Robert would have lost there.
Robert definitely doesn't have the tactics of Stannis
Renly would be king right now if not for black magic
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Renly would be King if he just knelt to Stannis as his heir. With the combined might of the Stormlands and the Reach, they would have crushed Tywin. Then, a simple “accident” puts Renly and Margaery on the throne.
Tarly came across like a Robert E. Lee and George Meade in terms of his competency as a general. His greatest asset is being able to coordinate the logistics of an army better than his opponents. However, this can also make him conservative, failing to act at the decisive moments or give commands for an offensive movement when an enemy is on the backfoot. This essentially makes him a solid bulwark to hold a position, but a poor choice to lead an assault against an enemy on the move.
Thats kind of my thoughts too My Lord. Hes definitely highly competent but he lacks that spark that separates the good from the greats and makes him a poor choice for a Vanguard commander in all honesty.
Thanks for watching again matey! Liam
Lositics was actually a massive weakness when Lee took command of the Army of Northern Virginia. He openly distained the adminsitrative work that came with being a commander. He was too into flashy wins in battle, even while fighting a war of attrition against a much larger and better supplied enemy. Which is weird because his ahdnly of adminsistrative work was what made him a really good artillery commander in Texas.
I would not call Lee a conservative commander. The guy attempted two offensive campaigns into the north with a significantly smaller and poorly equipped army. His greatest victories were largely due to his daring maneuvers, familiarity with local terrain, and excellent general staff. Meade is a great comparison though. He was stalwart but hesitant to seize initiative on his own.
The South had a lack of manpower relative to the North, so Lee preferred risky tactics. A war of attrition would've ground down his army much faster than the Army of the Potomac. Lee hoped that a major victory would get the European powers to declare their support for the South, which is what France did for the fledgling United States after the Battle of Saratoga. To this purpose, Lee divided his forces and sent his cavalry on foray into the North in order to obtain a surprise and lighting victory. He rather resembles Robb Stark in that way.
Robert Baratheon big weakness was he’s a hot head at least by the time of a game of thrones his anger towards the targaryens caused him to toss reason to the wind someone really intelligent could have exploited that
Definitely as a political leader, however I think that anger helped him quite a bit on the battle front 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
It also happens to be the very reason he rebelled and won in the first place. He's brash, sure, but given a favorable context, that brashness can win thrones.
@@DarkVeghetta it’s also how the Romans lost just about every battle they fought in the first half of the second Punic War what I’m saying is that it causes just as much recklessness as it does focus by the time of AGOT Roberts anger bred recklessness we did see it do him in but a general like Hannibal or Cesar or Alexander would have used his anger to knee cap his army and end the rebellion swiftly
@@user-ok7kz8ru2q We have no idea how such a match-up would fare, really.
However, I'm also inclined to give the hypothetical win of such a scenario to Caesar and Hannibal, but Alexander is much more of a coin-toss, since he had very similar strengths to Bobby B and one might end up killing the other on the field before the troops really finish duking it out.
Regardless, Bobby's enemies did not have generals of that caliber, let alone warriors able to take him in a 1v1. Again, context matters.
Robb is definitely the best, I have no bias whatsoever
Typical show only watcher
@@aidanford4285 I read all the books Robb is the best
@@aidanford4285 read the books, im just playing as Robb in the ck3 campaign with Fandome
Aye, he's the best at getting himself killed for mistakes.
If you ask me he is up there, but keeping his mother around was a mistake. Not to mention sending Theon to the Iron Islands.
Not downplaying Big Bobby B here, but a lot of his victories early in the rebelion was against smaller armies. He messed up against Tarly, he would have lost the battle of the Bells had it not been for Ned Stark and Jon Arryn coming to his rescue. Sure, Bobby won the battle of the Trident, but he got wounded during battle, meaning he probably wasn't the sole commander, as we know Ned Stark, Jon Arryn and Hoster Tully. And Ned was the one who lead his army againt Kings Landing, suggesting that Ned saw fewer losses. I'm not saying Bobby ain't number one, but Ned should be on this list. Because Ned was obviously a great general, and he is the guy that taught Robb. Grey Worm should not be on this list, but Ned should, if only because Ned was Roberts number 2 guy.
Sorry about any misspellings. I'm norwegian, do english is not my first language
Bobby B also had the advantage of having his foster father, Jon Arryn, as his mentor and advisor. We never got to see or read much about Jon Arryn, but it’s implied that while he may not be Tywin level of tactics and intelligence, he wasn’t far off. He also had Ned who while young, proved to be a much more capable military commander than warrior.
George Martin says it multiple times in the books. A young Robert Baratheon was the embodiment of the deity, The Warrior. He was a god of war, not a god of tactics. A young, 6’4 200lb Robert didn’t win wars because of his ability to lead men through his mind, he won wars through his ability to lead men through his might.
Battle of the Bells wasn't even a battle until Ned and Jon Arryn arrived.
He should not be number 1 though lol. He has great generals but he isn't one himself. Stannis is called the greatest general. Robert is called the greatest warrior. Those titles are pretty clear.
@@TrashPanda90914 He did win 3 battles in a single day. That's no small feat. It requires great deal of personal heroism as well as equally great understanding of battle.
You could say that Robert's generals deserve a lot of credit for his victories, which they do. But you could say that for Stannis himself, who likely benefited from Davos' experience in his victory against Victarion.
I might be inclined to say its Robb who deserves the top spot with how impressive his victories were. But the point remains, Robert Baratheon is the only man who can boast of the greatest military achievement in Westeros. That of actually conquering Westeros without any dragon cheat codes.
Most anglophones are monolingual or poor at speaking another language. With the exception of an +80 year old Swedish woman, I can't say the same for any Scandinavian that I'm aware of.
Just think of the army Big Bobby B could have had if all his bastard's turned out like him they might even have been able to take on the dragons.
So true! I mean Bobby basically did what Aegon did but without the dragons, that puts his Chad levels beyond that which our modern science can quantify 😂 Thanks for watching RAMOS! Liam
I think it's hard to judge Tarly for the escape of Robert. He beat Robert in the field, then the Tyrells with their own little agenda arrived and turned what could have been a decisive victory into an indecisive one. Heck, it's pointed out more than once that the Tyrells didn't wanna participate in the war at all whilst technically staying loyal. This is a political move by Tarlys superiors, not military failure on his end. They just found the biggest, best defended castle and besieged it without really risking their army at all. They didn't participate in either or the deciding battles of the rebellion at all. Hard to rank the man when his only known accomplishment is this
Jon snow was the commander we turned to, when night was the darkest🥶
Still no Night king? his troops follow orders like no other
😂 thats actually a fair point, dam it Kyle I can't believe we missed the opportunity for that joke pick 😂 thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
Another commander who i think is underrated is ormund baratheon robert's grandfather
he led his army into the step,stones to fight the golden company the best sellsword company in Essos with nothing but green boys who didn't have the same experience as them
and the nine penny kings commanders knew the step,stones better than the westerosi meaning they could have trapped them their easily and they had experienced commanders who had fought in thus area before
Jet despite these disadvantages ormund managed 5o land his army in the step,stones succsessfully without suffering to much damage
his only flaw that we know of is that he died in battle and we dont know the kontekst of how he died other than maelys the mounsterous killed him.
Thanks for re uploading the video with an extra for us !!. Sorry that it got struck for the copy claim, I here they are so annoying to deal with. A great video in every aspect guys. My personal favourite commander and character is the Mannis anyone who says other wise is a traitor that is certain. Keep up the great vids !!!!!
Great video, I do think that Ned should be given an honorable mention, Ned taught Robb everything he knows. And the big man George has also said that Ned was one of the best tacticians in the realm.
Aye my crazy Scottish friend! I think Bobby's spot is kind of half Neds in all fairness. Bobby does credit a few battles that he gets the glory for to Ned.
Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Put those two against the Walkers and the problem wouldn't exist.
Thanks for making this ❤
Your welcome Alex, its actually a reupload, hopefully this time without any CR claim material in it 😂 thanks for watching! Liam
My assumption has always been that Robert won the rebellion because of Ned. Robb without ever having gone to war beat Tywin so bad that he rage quit the
War of the 5 Kings by violating guest right. Something that the entirety of Westeros holds sacred. I figure Robb got his tactical genius from Ned. I have no doubt Robert was a good fighter during the rebellion, but he never struck me as a deep thinker. I'm guessing Ned decided the battle plans and Robert went out to hit things.
7:38 shouldn’t you say, Dickon Tarly
…I’ll see myself out
FFS thats the second missed joke someone's pointed out to us, me and Thom are slipping 😂 thanks for watching GameBawesome! Liam
I was looking yesterday for this one
7:13 I disagree. Even if Robert had died, the war was far from over. Ned Stark still would've marched south and joined up with Jon Arryn. Then, they probably still would've gotten Hoster Tully on their side as well.
Totally agree. The main issue was that Robert won the majority of the Stormlands over with conquest due to them supporting the Throne. So they would probably have turned against Stannis, freeing up the Reach laying siege to Storm's End.
Well researched vid. Yeah, the Baratheons are legends. I also got a kick out of the Laughing Storm from the Dunk and Egg books. Kind of family that could be your best mates or your worst enemies, no middle ground.
Tarly seems like the perfect honorable mention candidate, we hear he's great, he just doesn't have many known feats.
Blackfish should have made this list, most of Robbs accomplishments was because of him, dude was an underrated badass
What about Khal Drogo? We don't have enough information about him, but
1) he's called "the great khal",
2) he's leading a warlike nomadic horde so clearly he has to be competent or he'd lose wars and then his power,
3) Viserys apparently thinks it's plausible that Khal Drogo can conquer Westeros because otherwise he wouldn't marry Dany to him,
4) after the attempted assassination of Dany, Khal Drogo himself promises to conquer Westeros (implying that he thinks it's possible, and delusional warlords don't live long).
5) He must have won a bunch for Drogo to be called "the great khal" and we don't actually see him lose a war, or have there be any serious threats to his power.
Perfect video and ranking your GoT videos are the best
I disagree... I don't think it was a mistake on rob starks part... Rob chopping off Jamie's hand was a great threat and keeping him alive was wise he had no way of knowing that mom would let him go.... And executing the carstarks was also valid not just because it's murder but before the carstarks killed the captives rob still had some genuine captives.. but now he had nothing... He gave more then fair offers to the iron Islanders and even gave fair terms of peace to Tywin Lannister... And if Remley was never assinated then Rob probably would have joined him as they were already close to making a deal... I think his biggest mistake was either Jolly Rotten Luck, not knowing how to handle unexpected stupid decisions by houses like Iron born, or alternatively letting his emotions cloud his judgement.. but I think nothing was wrong with his honor.. every offer Rob gave politicly was more then fair to be honest
There is a solid difference between "It was a mistake" and "that didn't work".
Like betting all in on a full house is not a mistake as that is a damn good hand. It is not a mistake just because unknown to me my opponent has 4 of a kind.
@@neodigremo I completely agree... i genuinely feel like Rob gave more then fair offers to everyone including the ironborn. I just think that it just didn't work... And some things were beyond his control
@@professorsassafras weeeelll….. the Ironborn thing wasn’t likely to work ever but Rob had reasons to think they wouldn’t trash his lands and Theon would not betray him.
And his marriage decision was a flat out mistake. As was his not telling Edmure (the de facto Lord of the Riverlands and so his flat out most vital vassal/ally) of his plans properly. But this is a handful of mistakes that make sense for the character. Most other issues were just things not working, such as allying with Renly. No shadow baby and this screws the lannisters completely
@@neodigremo I know most fans probably hate this opinion, but i think it was right for Rob to marry the girl(jeyne westerling) because he soiled her and needed to take responsibility. The deal Catlyn made with the Freys was just so stupid.
@@Rengokuo4o6 It wasn't an incredible deal, but considering Rob was at that point unproven, really needed the help AND the Freys are one of the stronger families out there it wasn't the worst deal you could get.
And once he slept with her the moral thing was to marry the girl. Sleeping with her at all was the mistake. Though you could argue that, moral or not, politics means Rob should not have married her anyway.
What if Aemon the dragon knight (with dark sister) vs Arthur Dayne (with Dawn) vs Prime Barristan the bold (with Blackfyre he did kill the last blackfyre) vs Sir Gregor the mountain (with heartsbane, sorry Sam 😭) vs Prime Robert Berathion (with Ice, Good old Ned having his back) vs Prime Jaime Lannister (with brightroar his families lost vilaryian steal great sword) vs Sir Duncan the Tall (with oath keeper) fought a free for all how’d they do? Wanted everyone to have somewhat comparable weapons to spice it up
Haha that would be a monster video, we are looking into some future vs matches though! So keep your eyes peeled! Thanks for watching! Liam
If anyone can weild a sword as heavy as Ice, it's a young king Robert.
1. Aemon the Dragon Knight
2. Barristan the Bold (Don't forget GRRM said that Dayne and Barristan are equals without Dayne, but if Barristan has Blackfyre, no way even Dawn would put Dayne over the edge)
3. Arthur Dayne
4. Duncan the Tall
5. Robert Baratheon
5. Jaime Lannister
6. The Mountain.
I would say leaving Storm‘s End open was an ok outcome, this is what castles are for, and Storm‘s End is the GOAT when it comes to this: Mace can‘t take the castle quickly, so he is faced with the choice of laying siege or pursuing Robert. Being Mace, he lays siege, which allows that one castle and its tiny garrison to neutralize Mace‘s *entire* Army. Not too shabby.
But even if Mace had pursued Robert, this then leaves a big enemy stronghold at his back and, worse, would allow Stannis to potentially raise additional troops from Robert‘s vassals and add them to the Rebel cause. And leaving a lesser force behind to prevent is itself a big risk.
And yeah, defending his lands and foiling Mace at least temporarily would have been even better, at least in the short term. On the other hand, unless he takes out the *entire* Tyrell army, it could also lead to him getting pincered by Mace and Rhaegar, or worse, Mace, Rhaegar and the Dornish. It‘s likely that his position was always untenable and escaping with his army intact to link up with his much more numerous allies in the North is probably the best outcome.
W.r.t. Ashford, Robert‘s approach should arguably have been: see if Mace f*cks up and gives you a big advantage to exploit that lets you do some easy damage to him. But don‘t mess around with grand napoleonic aspirations. Strategically he needs to link up with his allies, and there‘s too much that could go wrong in the meantime, with too little potential gain.
So, Robert going at this offensively, but then beating a retreat when it doesn‘t pan out is overall pretty solid.
Tywin operates on enemy ground all the time with a big army and long supply routes. Robb Stark tried to lure him further into this area where he could outrange and beat him. Tywin have to do this to show his strength to keep his bannerman close and "happy".
To be fair on on Randyll Tarly not going after Robert Baratheon after handig Robert his only "defeat". He was still a bannerman to the Tyrells. Who very likely wanted to play it safe by besieging Storm's End instead of chasing Robert. So if the rebels win, -which they did- the Tyrells can just abandon the siege and say "Sorry mate. But we didn't really do a whole lot for the Targaryens anyway." And if the loyalists won, the Tyrells can say that their siege -and eventual subjugation- of Storm's End as their contribution to the Targaryen war effort.
The battle of summerhall was actually one battle in three parts. Robert found out that three of his bannermen were going to side with the mad king and meet at summerhall so he acted first and fell on each army as it arrived
Great video as always keep up with the content and never stop making great videos
Thanks Connor always great to see you in the comments! Yeah I'm really bloody hoping I don't burn thom out can't believe he's managing one a week bless him 😂 thanks for watching matey! Liam
Tywin being #5 is wildddd.
Randly Tarly actually faced the entire force of storms end, with only the army a small lord like him could muster_ that is why is was a huge victory
What did Stannis actually ever win anything with his strategies? I think he is actually somewhat like tarly. We know he is good because others fear him and they say he is good. But holding storms end wasn't strategy but rather his will. The only war he really won was the greyjoy rebellion, along with everyone else. He should have attacked kings landing way earlier and even if he won and Tywin never showed up it wouldn't be a win out of great strategy but rather because he had the number and kings landing had Joffrey. Loosing this battle and not anticipating that Tywin is coming a actually a real flaw. He might win against the Bolton's but we don't know that yet. So for me at least the only reason I think he is good is because others say so and that makes him not any better than tarly. For comparison, robb won many battles and Robert won the rebellion so we know they are really good, so for me robb is better than Stannis
Robert and Ned won the greyjoy rebellion.
@Rengokuo4o6 Eh... Robert and Ned (along with half the rest of the nobility, including Stannis, Tywin, the Mountain, Jorah Mormont, and more) landed on the Iron Isles and finished the war, but by that point the Greyjoys were already crippled. They aren't an army power, they're a naval power, and it was Stannis who defeated them at sea. Stannis was responsible for the decisive cornering and destruction of the legendary Ironborn Fleet, which is ultimately what made invading the Iron Isles possible to begin with.
Stannis did incredibly well during the Greyjoy rebellion (before the main story started). And Stannis holding Storm's end wasn't just a matter of him having an iron will, it was also a matter of convincing his troops to not just surrender.
In the books, Stannis smashes the wildling army while being horribly outnumbered. Stannis is also likely going to beat the Boltons on the field in the next book.
Winning 3 battles in a single day is more than winning battle after battle after battle. It implies he managed to preemptively strike several enemy forces that were about to merge (why else would they be that close from one another) and defeat them in detail. Turning a certain defeat (or at least a costly stalemate) into overall a decisive victory.
That's what you'd expect from Napoléon.
i surprise Ned is not on the list, He is the one that is credited with strategy when it comes to winning the throne
in fact it wasn't until Ned brought his army from the north that victory became a a possibility for the rebels
and Robb's victory where hint to be because he was Ned's son
only Stannis was comparable to Ned in the books when it comes to warfare
Indeed. Ned is underrated.
Where is Brynden Tully? He was responsible for half of Robb's brilliance on the field. I get that he is sort of like Tarly in terms of how he is highly praised without much information about his earlier campaigns, but he was easily the most important commander in Robb's arsenal, and on top of that, he managed to recapture Riverrun. He should be at least above Tywin.
Not only managed to recapture Riverrun, he would also have kept it if the other side didn't have his nephew. What people also seem to forget is that Jaime Lannister looks up to Brynden Tully as well and that has to count for something.
One of tarley’s greatest advantages is being a commander from the reach logistics wins wars.
Robb strikes me as a brilliant tactician, but a poor strategist. To use a modern example, you wouldn’t put Robb in charge of WW2 as a whole. However, you would put him in charge of the Pacific Theatre or D-Day.
Yes, great point. My thoughts exactly.
If the Unsullied used bows, artillery, and stronger but similar sized shields, they'd be even more dangerous than before
Rob was the best King, no doubt good commander as well Only his heart/love led him to his downfall
Without Stannis to hold the Storm’s end, Robert’s rebellion would certaily fail
I would really be up for a GoT series about Roberts Rebellion.
Honorably mention should also be King Daeron I. He came the closest to conquering Dorne than even Aegon the Conqueror, and he did it without dragons! Only reason he lost was the fact that he was murdered under a peace banner.
I really need the explanation of why Stannis is making it into the top 5. All that was said is that he knows about justice, his loyalty is earned, and he is a great in strategy and all it comes to the military command - and the last of it has absolutely no proof. He failed the siege of King-s landing, and speculations that he would have won without Tywin coming do not give him any sort of advantage, as he was fighting against Tyrion and Joffery, where the first one knows a good theory, but not by a mile a skilled military commander, and second one is Joffery, and the forces available to them seems smaller than the Stannis posses.
Secondly, he managed to outsmart the wildlings (it's not even a feast to bring up) and thirdly he lost the battle for Winterfell. Not in the books yet, but what actually is there to bring him up as a competent commander? Eating the same meal as his soldiers boosts up loyalty, but it's no way near the loyalty that is earned by actions and honour. And even with it, it's one of the factors which other commander in one way or another have, not the actual justification. If the commander have not won a single battle, no matter the odds, he cannot be named a good one.
And final point, in show only at least, it seems that Stannis compensate his incompetence as military commander with magic. Everything from beating his brother to march on Winterfell was secured by it. I really hope that in the books he has some glorious backstory of being almost as good commander as his brother was, but from the show alone, and the description in the video, his place is secured in the list purely on author's favouritism of a character, and nothing more.
Yeah never liked Stannis. He didn't have any victories as far as I know and his claim isn't good either. His brother was king so he's king too because the guy died!? Nah they just like him because they believe he would be a "fair king" but with the game of thrones the corruption is too much. Heck half his decisions come from the red witch. SMH
Stannis is a hell of a commander in the books, and even his show version basically shares the same track record.
During Robert's Rebellion, while he was still basically a teenager, Stannis held Storm's End for a year with only a few hundred men against the enormous Tyrell army. Defending against a siege is not just about denying access to the enemy, but keeping the morale of your men high while they starve.
During the Greyjoy Rebellion, Stannis led the combined royal fleet against the Greyjoy fleet and utterly crushed them, beating the Greyjoys where they were strongest: in their sea power. The rest of the war was basically a mop-up job after that.
The attack on King's Landing was Stannis' only major defeat in the books, and even then, he came dangerously close to victory. Neither the wildfire nor Tyrion's trickery could stop him. The only factor that Stannis not accounted for was Tywin Lannister's mad-dash forced march from Harrenhal to King's Landing.
Later, in the North, as you mentioned, Stannis smashed Mance Rayder's army. Outsmarting the wildlings might not be all that difficult in most cases, but they had around 100 thousand men. But you can't deny that Stannis had the perfect strategy: aim for the head. He attacked Mance Rayder's camp directly with a cavalry envelopment and beat the entire wildling horde before they could mount a resistance.
Now, in the books of course, Stannis marches to take Winterfell from the Boltons with a relatively ragtag army, but neither Ramsay nor Roose are quite in the same weight class as Stannis when it comes to military leadership. Stannis certainly won't fuck up the attack like he did in the show. But, given that GRRM has yet to release The Winds of Winter, the outcome of the battle is still uncertain.
@@luker2693 Thanks for confirming his books achievements. I have no hate for a character, but a show-version has pretty much no mentions of it, and overall seems incompetent, but as you highlighted, he had a solid stands in Robert's Rebellion, so his hype as a military commander is justified.
@@existed3302 In the show, Stannis only really becomes incompetent in the second half of Season 5, when D&D just decided to get rid of him. If I wrote the show, I would have chosen someone with a little bit more presence and personality than Stephen Dillaine to play Stannis, but they got his cold and hard demeanor right. He looks and feels like a veteran commander.
Can you do who has the best army in GoT
Fighting in their home field and in the other areas of Westeros (and Meereen etc)
Made of a note of it buddy!
One of greyworms weaknesses as well is he doesn't know cavalry. None of the troops he commands are cavalry and his focus is purely spear infantry. If he were to train as a complete field commander he would probably be higher on the list i think
To be fair to Robb he is the king in the north. A king gives you an order and you follow it. End of story. Deviating from that plan could fuck you up or piss off the king.
Wasn’t there also something about a meeting that the guy didn’t show up for?
Is Bobby's huge love of battle a weakness? It could lead to rushing his forces in, or even having battles that you didn't need to. That said, he never lost because of this, so as a weakness, at least in his case, it's not a big one. But, it's possible he powered through (taking needless loses), to win battles he otherwise would have lost because of his battle love?
If Rob stark survived and gained more experience. By true adulthood. (Book Rob.) Would be possibly the greatest commander.
I would argue that Tarly and Grey Worm barely qualify as strategists, but what they DO accomplish well is be peerless drill masters on the frontline. A fundamentally different skill set than strategy, but useful in its own right. Both found themselves bolstering strategists above them, not requiring them to be strategists themselves.
I find it extremely hard to believe that Robert Baratheon would have had any clear advantage in a 1v1 vs Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, or Gregor ‘The Mountain’ Clegane while Robert’s Rebellion was underway. I think Rhaegar could have also won the Battle of the Trident if a couple things had gone differently. Robert just had all that plot armor.
Dayne and Barristan were considered the best swordfighters in that time. If Barristan was fresh and not injured, he would have effed Robert up during the trident.
I really feel that Tywin should be higher at least over Grey Worm and Tarly. And to top it off i feel ike people overstate Rob "kicking his ass." One he's never actually commanded against Tywin in the field. Two that battle played terribly in the show with a throwaway line of how there were only two thousand northern troops on the field which made Tywin look kinda dumb. In the books its 18000, Robb ccommits his entire foot and fucks off to RiverRun to break the siege. So in the books he committed a lot more to sell the bit. Two, the Battle of The Camps only goes as smashingly as it does is only made possible by Jamie's prior capture which is facilitated as much by the Blackfish as Robb and those were Jamie's ls not Tywin's. Three, Tywin does the smartest thing possible from the bad position these battles leave him in. Park at a base that can house his entire garrison and send out raiders to destroy the enemies logistical base while he stays ready to respond to new developments on any front of the war. Though Robb's plan to draw him out from that position was admittedly brilliant.
There's a difference between a tactician and a strategist. Its like Lee vs Grant or Meade. Lee fought battles. Grant and Meade fought a war. Bobby B was a great battle field leader, but there's no way he wins if the rebellion gets drawn out. His army was as much united by hate of Aerys II as any love of him. That burns out eventually, so to speak.
Actually, not telling Edmure the plan in A Clash of Kings probably was a war-losing blunder. Not because of Robert‘s plan, but because Stannis picked that exact moment to attack King‘s Landing. As it happened, Tywin, having been denied the crossing, is still in a position to intervene in the battle, at the last moment, by rushing South.
Without Edmure‘s interference, however, Tywin would have crossed the Red Fork and been on the wrong side of the River to interfere in the Siege of King‘s landing, with Edmure‘s forces between him and the way back to the Capital. It‘s very likely that Stannis would have taken the city without Tywin‘s last-minute arrival, as he had an overwhelming numerical advantage over the defenders. And the Tyrells would never have intervened on their own initiative: it took the arrival of Tywin to seal that deal.
Tarly was commanding the Van, a small, light forward group of the main army vs the main bulk of Roberts, the likelihood he could win the field, let alone smash Roberts army alone was small. Jon Con could have easily killed Robert had he simply found him prior to the battle of the bells. Show Pleb take.
The plan of Robb trying to trap the mountain was a bigger move then you think, if im not remembering falsly. His plan was not only too trap him but twyin himself that was behind him what would have been a big succes if im not mistaken.
In the books, its Tywin he plans to capture. The Mountain means nothing in the larger scheme of things.
I grow increasingly irritated about Show Randall Tarley decided to get roasted rather than bend the knee to Dany. I guess D&D kinda forgot that the Tarleys were Targaryen loyalists...
Ah, Greyworm. Mad Queen Dany angered me. Mad Greyworm was actually genuinely heartwrenching to me. No foreshadowing necessary, here. Trained since toddlerhood to kill, he sees the only woman he has ever loved and who loved him in return butchered in front of him. What else is he going to do?
0:30 , bedroom thoughts…
Can you do one of these for house of the dragon please
If Tarly had killed Bobby B, it wouldn’t had accomplished much, Stannis would’ve just filled that void. Most of the Rebellion would still have the Northern, Vale, and Riverland forces with a more prudent Stormer Commander.
I just wanted to see Stanis on the throne! He would have been best for the realm
That's still a possibility in the books. I wouldn't necessarily put money on that, but he's alive and kicking in the books and doing quite well.
So basically number 1 is Ned wearing a boɓby b skin suit
I don’t understand how Grey Worm came onto this list. I would place Randyll Tarly far above him, since in ASOIAF he Mops up the Brotherhood and a Stark army send south by Roose Bolton to die. In GOT this is left out, but there is also no ending for the Brotherhood, so we can argue that it happened offscreen in GOT (being so far successful in cleaning a land full of outlaw is really a impressive feat for a commander).
But in the case of Grey Worm there isn’t really anything that is in his favor. He is not a particularly good fighter as far as we know and also not a good commander. We know in any case that he isn’t since it is at least in ASOIAF and maybe also in GOT stated that the Unsullied are not meant to command but only to serve. That doesn’t mean he isn’t good at his job as commander of the Unsullied, but the Unsullied are the single most disciplined force in Planetos, which would endure every pain and even death rather then disobeying orders. We can also see that in the tactics of the Unsullied which aren’t really refined, I mean they use a form of phalanx formation with Bronze Age armament (worse in GOT were they use some leather bs of an armor) in a late medieval context (I must say I’m mixing here ASOIAF and GOT, which have not much in common, the book is somewhat placed in a worked out military world, the show just really isn’t, I can’t even explain what we see in the show it’s just utter fantasy in terms of the arts of war). The Unsullied are just incredibly trained and to sustain discipline they are given no identity of their own, meaning that most of they tactics are just to follow orders whatever may come.
If Grey Worm were to command any other force in the world, he would miserably fail, since he doesn’t knows really tactics nor strategy nor really much of logistics either, while the most important factor in war, the moral one, would complete fail under his control since he is used to commanding suicidal killers and most likely sees all men apart from the Unsullied as some lower rabble rather than soldiers.
True. If we take the books into consideration, the Blackfish is also in top 5 100%.
I just want to point out that Stanis Lost every single battle in The show except with wildlinds. He relied more on fanatical rituals than on military strategy
@20:39 and chests!
Grey worm is useless as a leader in battles, he can carry our an actual commanders ideas pretty decently if they give him very detailed instructions but that’s about it.
I’d say the ultimate alliance would be between Tywin and Robb as relatively equal ranks with Tywin doing the politics and taking equal part in tactics, and robb being in charge on the army’s movements and actually present for battles.
In general I’m not impressed by Grey Worm, the inflexibility is too detrimental to leadership. His only tea victory was at Casterly Rock, which was effectively abandoned by Jamie, so not even a real win. The Black Fish took back his home from the Freys, but lost it because his soldiers were too loyal to Edmure and not him. Ramsey did well, beat Theon, Stannis, and Jon, and only lost to Sansa bringing in the knights of the Vale when he had fully committed his forces to defeating Jon, which he did. Randyl only lost to an actual dragon while also facing the Dothraki in an open field.
13:13 why he didn't raise another northern army, as 18 k was just hastely assembled army
Hi! I commented on the other vid, so I’m just here to get the famous “al gore rhythm” to favor this video more, by adding to engagement
Love you guys!
Does anyone else get Hannibal kinda vibe from robb?
And man barristan is severely underestimated here. He is also a great commander I'd say in the regards as tarly.
Bobby B's bigges Weaknest? Boar. He was killed by a Pig, after all.
depends but I would probably say either stannis or robert baratheon
Edmure's screw up was Edmure's alone, not Robb's.
What about Mace Tyrell? He managed to tie up Stannis in Storm's End during most of Robert's Rebellion. Not his fault that Rhaegar screwed everything up.
The force Stannis had was only 500 strong wich he besiged with 60,000 when he could have sent half that number to help Rhaegar
@@Maegorthecrueltargaryen Shhhh.
@@diacrethii.9221 what trying yo hide Maces lack of loyalty
This is for the small percentage of MTG players watching this video. This makes me want a GOT set of commander decks themed around the 4 biggest houses.
as far as battle tactics, yeah he was. he straight up never lost a battle that wasnt a diversion or feint against tywin lannister who was no slouch himself. he fell short in other areas of command so i cant say hes definitely the best, but if you want a commander leading an army from the front, and your selection is GoT characters, robs the guy
Roberts weakness? Drink, women, and boars
Kahl Drogo should get the number one spot as he never lost a single battle or fight. He defeats every opponent that he comes across and only loses to a witch outside of combat. Grey Worm doesn't deserve his spot as any other comander you mentioned who's is charge of the Unsulied and knows how to use them would probably do better as they have had training as a commander not as a captain or soldier. Ned should replace Grey Worm in all honesty.
What movie is this scene from in 17:12?
King Arthur (2000s with Kiera knightly)
Overall Bobby B did the almost impossible but he’s a top tier fighter and leader. I’m sure he’s fine at military tactics but Robb maybe better at X’s and O’s than Bobby. That being said Bobby B still was a better general than Robb as he was the best lead from the front type of leader due to his elite fighting and leadership skills.
Any person who needs explanations for Stannis actually being one of the best isn’t giving value to other things.
Strategy also requires will and persistence.
Stannis hold StormsEnd siege for an years, any other commander would’ve given up and and surrendered
Stannis defeated the Greyjoys AT SEA, which’s is even harder to win.
Stannis ambushed the wildlings, and that required balls and strategy have no doubt
Stannis defeated Tyrion at Kings Landing, but failed to predicted Tywin incoming. And he only lost bc he was attacked from the back. I have no doubt that if he knew he would’ve had arrived a lil bit sooner and defend himself like he did at storms end from Tywins forces
In the books he also defeated the Frey forces
And his probably gonna win against Ramsey and Roose
Stannis gave us many reasons on why his one of the best military commanders
That not only requires courage, but also intelligence, fear, respect and force of will, and recognizing when you can’t win, and recognizing the ability’s of others like he says about Randyl Tarly.
I still dont understand how everyone blames robb for the mountain being alive and not the guy who disobeyed a direct order just because he wanted glory. No robb didnt say why but HES THE KING THATS WHY. You think tywin told all his men the reasoning for his plan. No. Cuz they knew to shut up and follow orders. The mountain escaping wasnt robbs fault. At all.
I do not believe Tarley should be on this list Robert’s weakness is over confidence, he was when he face Tarley, and was knocked down a peg. I think Tarleys “victory” is more a discredit to Robert and less a credit to Tarley… I think the list would be more accurate if it went
1: King Robert
2: Stannis
3: king of the north Rob
4:Tywin
5: Ned stark
6: Jamie fucking Lannister
7: Khal Drogo
8: Tarley
9: Jorah
10: John snow
To justify, all of Westeros regards Ned as a great commander, Tywin was thankful to have Rob instead of his dad Ned before the fighting started anyway. I left grey worm off for a couple of reasons one he had dragons to help him almost every time or some secret passage way in. Also he killed Lannister men after they surrendered to be a good commander you must have restraint on the front line of battle. This makes him a poor commander. Oh and lastly he had an endless amount of unsullied or at least in the show he did. They never die… crazy not have balls must make them immortal. Lastly I put in John snow I know I know show plot armor… but even in the books he is making choices to set himself up to be a good commander. Also with exception of the battle of the bastards he keeps him men alive and able to fight. He commands wildlings who are chaotic. He is able to get the north men and then not to kill each other. He also has good sound strategy and At least in the show he defeats the army of the dead… and literal endless horde… Again I get it plot armor has a role to play in this.
Lastly to defend Jamie he is number 6 yes I know. He looses to number three we would expect this to happen. Tywin looses battle after battle to number three but was in this video still number 5 Jamie lost to Danny because of dragons. Not because of strategy he also learns from his mistakes when he takes high garden and temporally sacrifices the rock. Only to get it back again with the iron fleet. His army is the second largest and he defeats the largest. Not to mention he is able to take riverrun without bloodshed which a good battlefield commander should know how to do. He did not sacrifice his men’s lives for a castle. A castle that did not matter in the long run of things the blackfish was content to hide in the castle. He was not making moves to rescue his nephew and liege lord… anyway this is why I put him up higher on the list.
Robb Stark won like 2 battles both through surprise same as Dany especially in the books she's the one that came up with the idea to free the unsullied she also came up with the idea to defeat the second sons and the Yunkish forces and she didn't come up with the idea to infiltrate Mereen but she did OK it i'm just saying she should be on the list
Wooooooo Bobby b my my best friend stennis the menace my bestest friend and robb stark my best pal all in the top three (:
How do you think Dunk will fair? When he gets men of course. He is Selmy's idol so that's gotta be worth something. He avoids battle whenever possible. He is a real outside of the box thinker
Dunk sounds like he is pretty solid to be fair, same as Selmy. Both are actually worthy contenders to make the list when I think about it, Selmy is kind of the reason Greyworm gets to kick ass. Thanks for watching as always Soup! Liam
Lyonna, Lyanna is RObert's weakness, with her dead he lost motivation and will to go on, the moment you kille her you get one last raging moment at best and then he's broken.
A skunk let loose in an elevator 😂
Was as apt an analogy as we could conjur my friend! Thanks for watching! Liam
Who did Tarly replace?
Wait. Where the hell is Ned ? He is Robert's No.2. He should be here.
book stannis was sitting at other side of blackwater see you jumping from book to film hope you mention book stannis never fought no one lol edit herd your ending your a Bobby B man do agree er but book stannis same as tywin commanded from the back great vid by the way
Not a book reader, but is it possible that stannis might use jon snow to rally the northern houses to his side to beat the boltons?
Well, in the books, Jon does plan to march south to fight the boltons before he is killed. And he is still dead. So if in the next book he comes back to life probably.
But rallying the north isn't really an issue. Half the north is already supporting Stannis, and the other half is secretly supporting him due to the hostages from the red wedding.
The battle for the North is probably going to play a lot differently than the show, with Rickon being named warden of the north.
Finally, someone calls out Tywin. I never understood why people thought he was a good leader. His only major victory is over the Reynes and Tarbecks. He sat out Robert's Rebellion, his entire fleet was destroyed by Victarion Greyjoy... a guy not known for his tactical genius. Even politically he doesn't seem that great. He was Hand during the Mad King's reign and oversaw years of peace seems to be his one political accomplishment until he pisses off The Mad King and throws a temper tantrum because Aerys won't marry Rhaegar to Cersei. Jon Arryn also oversaw years of peace under Robert, which is somewhat impressive considering the civil war that had just engulfed the Seven Kingdoms. I never here people say Jon Arryn was a politically savvy leader. As soon as Tywin dies his entire house goes downhill because ruling through fear isn't a great long term strategy and he alienates the smartest of his children. Tywin failed to control Joffrey as well. The Tyrells, specifically the females, are far better at politics than Tywin. He was so dumb that he instigated the Red Wedding, which violated guest right and would cause the entirety of Westeros to no longer trust the Lannisters.
He was one of the best.
His failing was not explaining his plan to edmure.
Think about it. Edmure only attacked because he Saw a opportunity.
Plus he was lord paramount of the river lands and he saw innocent people being slaughtered.
The same people he was sworn to defend.
All Rob had to say Is that he needed to trap tywin and it was essential. No need for full details but the why behind the order.
It reminds me of the sun zu quote
In the books didn't Stannis already lose? Honestly wasn't expecting him to be on the list. I would swap him and Randyll Tarly. Tarly in the books is shown to be a good commander and Inspire loyalty via increased loot to his men. Stannis won the siege but that's his only accomplishment Most believe he won because The Tyrells let him. Every other fight he did he had the advantage and lost.