It was common back in the day when they hade overhead drive via steam or diesel. With a flat belting you can just force it over with the hand. It's shown in old books.
@@CandidZuluwhen they had overhead drives there were mechanisms to "safely" move the belts over. I have one i rescued from an old mill. Still wouldn't use it myself. Belts were quite dangerous in those environments and i've read lots of accounts of people literally losing their arms after getting their clothes snagged. Realise it's not quite the same situation but i've always taken the view it's better safe than sorry with something like this.
I have a Mod A 14x39 Monarch built in 1916 that is driven by a flat belt from an overhead line shaft. I will quite often change steps without shutting down the motor. This can only be done if there is a matched stepped cone pulley on the driving shaft.
The entire extent of my lathe knowledge comes from watching TH-cam videos, and you clearly have mountains more than I likely ever will... But, watching your loose cuff being so close to the belt when you changed gears and the motor turning gave me shivers... As for the lathe and your fixes... this is why i love your channel - you're an inspiration to inventors everywhere. Not only do you have the crazy ideas, but you actually build the prototypes and carry on through to the end!! Amazing work!
Actually, the bloke who made this video knows VERY LITTLE about lathes and even less about safety when working with, and repairing machinery ! God forbid anyone new to metal working watches it and thinks what he is doing here is acceptable practice.
Congratulations Tim on bringing this machine back to life! A couple of points - Never leave the chuck key in the chuck; that was the first rule that I learnt when I was an apprentice. Always keep morse tapers scrupulously clean and the same goes the for when mounting the chuck. I would repsectfully suggest that all moving parts must be well lubricated. Should you decide to correct the wear on the bed, cross slide and compound slides this can be done by hand carrying out the process known as 'scraping'. A scraper can be made from an old large file. Finally keep the overhang of the tools to a minimum for two main reasons: A) it will prevent chatter and a rough finish on your work piece and for safety. Have fun. Best wishes.
The sheeves are actually called "gibs". The tail stock can move sideways so you can cut a taper on a shaft. The big nut on the top of the tail stock is probably the lock for the tail stock. Loosen and the tail stock shaft should move easier. The big gear that makes it run slower is called the "the back gear". Thanks for sharing your old metal lathe!! Very cool!!
@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Those tee slots on the saddle can be used to clamp a workpiece amongst other stuff thus turning your lathe into a milling machine of sorts.
Sheaves are another name for pulleys, maybe you read it somewhere in regards to the step pilleys on the lathe and got it crosswired, or had it mashed up with "shim" somehow???
The "rivets" in the shaft are probably taper pins, the can only be knocked out from one side. As @mwagner says your sheaves are called "gibs", which in the US are called "Gibs with a "g", whereas in the UK they are called "gibs" with a "j" like the "jib" on a sailing boat! A huge fascinating world is opening up for you! All the best, Matthew
It’s pretty important to remove all that surface rust of the bed ways etc before you slide that saddle about too much and then get some proper slide way oil. A nice old lathe , great to see it being preserved
As a part time retired metal lathe machinist, it appears that most of the saddle drag can be attributed to the corrosion on the way's of the lathe. Eventually it'll be okay after lubrication and cleaning. Another pro-tip is that in order for you to sharpen cutting bits is using polishing stones to properly contour your cutting edge of the bit.
If you want to change to a V belt, you can use Brammer Link Belting that runs in Vee pulleys but let’s you split it to fit. Enjoy the videos look forward to seeing the lathe in action.
I really appreciate people like you Tim, who keep the old machines running. New stuff has no soul, no history.. And the brilliant people who designed these things in the first place!
Very interesting and entertaining as always, but please Tim PLEASE fasten your cuffs or wear short sleeves. It looks terrifying to see it running and open sleeves so close !!! . Concern, not criticism.
Nice video and good that you rescue the machine. About 30 years ago a worked in the metal workshop from a building company and the turner ( man behind the lathe) always ( every day at about 15:45 h) cleaned the sliding rails on the bed clean with cotton wats ( these fluffy things) and then he oiled them with clean wats. He had a wooden "grill" (2x0,8m) under his feed to stand on. He told he has less cold feet then and you are not standing/walking on the spanes that fall on the ground when turning. They fall between the grill openings. Regards from the Netherlands
My grandpa taught me over 50 years ago on a path of that vintage. He had a line shaft the powered all the machines with one motor and the old lathe was flat belt drive from the line shaft. Old and well worn but it worked pretty well and we used it quite often and on some large parts. If this fool kid could learn, you certainly can. I'd recommend getting an old "Machinery Guide" manual. Every machinist had one and it explains all the operations and procedures in understandable language and pictures. You'll be amazed at what those little books can show you! And they are usually available and inexpensive. I've found some labeled "Machinist Guide". The ones printed during WWII were very good. It will explain sharpening cutting bits for the different needs, tapers, threading, and proper.setups.
I really enjoyed this video as I do every one of your videos. I want to keep enjoying them so I do think you need to take heed of some of safety concerns voiced here.
23:25 Brilliant video I love old engineering… just a suggestion using a lubricant will help improve the cut. We were always told this at school, our metalwork teacher gave us old baked bean tins, one for each lathe and we used to have to half fill them with a milky looking cutting fluid and with a paintbrush we had to keep applying the cutting fluid regularly. Factory lathes often had a continuous drip feed onto the job. If you start getting smoke off then your tool is overheating, it expands and you get horrible “bar code” finishes. It seems nowadays when I watch a lot of videos with people drilling, cutting and machining that they forget to keep the tools cool and lubricated. It would be good for folk to start encouraging the use of it. Many thanks again for a fascinating video. ❤
Those spindle bearings probably need oil drippers fitted to the threaded holes at the top. The 1959 Myford ML7 I use has them. They have adjustable needle valves to provide 1 drop of oil every 30 seconds or so. I can heartily recommend Blondihacks Lathe Skills tutorial series here on youtube. Comprehensive, easy to understand, and also entertaining.
Some of my favorite lathes are older than me. A handy feature on some modern machines is a foot break to stop the workpiece quickly. With a bit of tinkering you could lift the motor off the belt and add breaking to the spindle. Good luck with that beauty!
A footbrake would guarantee that the Lathe stops spinning and the chuck would keep going,unwind and smack the operator in the goolies. Not a good idea.
Not sure if it’s been mentioned already in the comments but the double height arrangements of slide ways appears to give you the ability to swing larger diameter items near the head stock ( say with a larger diameter chuck or a faceplate ) but still keep the rigidity of the bed the longer items. Many lathes had a removable bit of the bed near the headstock which achieved the same purpose but this seems a elegant alternative way to give you more swing. The motor pulleys were often stepped as well both to give you more speed range and so the the motor does not have to move side ways. Love your videos and stay safe !
About the movement in the tail stock. If you put in a long shaft in the lathe. One end in the chuck and the other end in the tail stock and you turn it the whole way you will see that it's maybe 30mm in one end and 29mm in the other end! Than you have to adujst the tail stock forward or backwords! 🙂
Metal work pieces pretty much always get hot, keep a spray bottle of machine coolant or cutting oil handy for drilling, or when taking a larger cut, makes a nicer finish and keeps heat down to reduce tool wear, Also try to keep the chips from "stringing" if a long stringy chip gets caught by the chuck it can cause some serious cuts to you, metal lathes are least dangerous when you respect them and use common sense. And good on ya for bringing that century old workhorse back to life, It will outlast a new lathe, and with a little more repairing, hold better accuracy too, my dad has a 1930s southbend lathe, It will hold within one thousandth of an inch
21:45 The tailstock moves sideways to allow turning tapers. It won't work on bar stock - and mostly needs a 4 jaw chuck with part held in the jaws only and not protruding through the back of the chuck.
The easiest way to use a stepped pulley flat belt lathe is to use a counter shaft also with a stepped pulley but handed the other way from the lather so that small drives to large and large to small. You can then put a V belt pulley on the end of the counter shaft and drive that from an electric motor mounted on the back of the lathe pedestal. I am not currently in the UK or I would send you a photo of this arrangement on my similar vintage but slightly larger Willson Smith lathe. The counter shaft should be mounted on a swinging frame to tension the flat belt and to permit speed ratio changes.
Well done sir. I refurbed a 1924 Dalton 4 lathe. my real problem was getting a motor mounted with a pulley that went slow enough to not destroy the lathe. Like yours, mine had no bearings other then babbitts. getting these old beasts alive again is pure joy.
What a piece of history you've got your hands on here. Thank you for treating her right and breathing life into her once again. It brings a tear to my eye. Truly.
The things you call shives are gib strips on a lathe or milling machine. The tail stock is able to move sideways to align it with the centerline of the chuck and also to allow you to cut a taper with the work in the chuck and the live center in the tailstock. To remove whatever you have in the tailstock, there should be a hole running through the tailstock for a knock out bar fed in from the right hand end. Please note your handwheel that moves the saddle along runs backwards compared to all conventional lathes. If you get to work on a ‘normal’ metal lathe you will need to take great care. My very old myford is the same. What a find! 😊
Dear inventor Tim. Only 4 minutes in and I already have to ask you to kindly allow me a suggestion: You can easily fabricate a sturdy V- belt pulley on your lathe. Then cut it in half, put in holes and threads and press/screw it onto the shaft you didn't want to remove. If you think that this shaft's bearings are strong enough to act as the new drive shaft, my suggestion could be a relatively easy middle way Best regards, luck and health in particular.
The non rotating center is called a dead center and it's used with lubrication on slow turning items. The other center with the ball bearing is called a live center. There should be a Chuck that fits in the tail sock and you use something called a center drill to create a hole in your material in which the live or dead center fits to support the end of the piece particularly if it is sending out a long ways. Good luck
Wow, just wow. Don’t understand any of it, as usual, but I do love thinking about and watching equipment made in pre-AI times. My husband, a photographer, has these really old cameras that are perfect and that’s just SO amazing - and satisfying.
Hi.. same old lady running in my shop..use a vehicle timing beld turned upside down on the flat pulley. Get a drive for the motor to change the speed. The most satisfying mechine to work on.
I don't know if adjustable v belts are easily available here, but they are made of identical, interlocking segments. This allows you to open the belt, adjust the length by adding or removing segments. If the belt ever breaks, just replace a segment.
what a beautiful old girl, gr8 to see her getting a new lease on life. the tail stock moves side ways to cut tapers. its a head scratch as you throw the center out. also you cut your first cut with the compound slide I would have just run the saddle out and back for that cut. I learnt my stuff on Engineering apprenticeships which are as older than your lathe. "Sitting with Nelly" it was called. Always fun to see your next interesting endeavour
This would have to be turning between centers, using a lathe dog to drive the piece, correct? It still seems wrong, like there would be excessive were on the centers.
I had one of these about thirty years ago. It was labelled as an Admitalty pattern Drummond B' type. I had to make a new spindle and bearings, a new leadscrew and nut and repair the back gear support. Marvellous machine. I part exed it for an old ML7 which also needed lots of work. Thinking back mine was smaller than that and the leadscrew was inside the bed...
What a beauty and worth lots of TLC. I have an IXL of similar type and she runs really well with an electric motor and variable speed control. Take care with the geared headstock please. No cloths and dangly bits!!!
Brilliant video Tim. I wouldn’t do without my Lathes. Had mine about 25 years although a modern Chinese one and a tiny American Taig. They have done so much work over the years. Most people seem to use carbide tips these days but high speed steel is fine if you can sharpen it. Thank you.
I think lathes are my very fav tool. And it looks so beautiful! I love old tools. Can you just imagine the people who used it? The things they did! I definitely enjoyed this video! Say hi to Buttercup for me!❤
Nice old lathe, I have a smaller Drummond lathe that I bought 9 years ago off a chap who had it from his dad, who had it from his grandad! My lathe is I think one step down in size from what I make in the video and for sure a 100 plus years old. I would very much like to restore it completely and use it for small work, but with these hobbies you need the basic 3, ie. time, money and space, of which time there isn't much - just look at how fast the year is flying, money, well that follows time and as for space my garage is not ideal at all. It is an old shed, the roof has several leaks, is full of cobwebs and bad lighting. The lathe is super heavy, sitting on the workshop bench in the back. Some day I will get to it.🐞
I still have my first lathe, a 3½" Drummond flat bed from about 1903. It has been converted to motor drive with vee belts using a segmented belt. The headstock can swivel and the tailstock slides sideways so you can turn a taper.
If you would like to get serious about removing the rust from it, I'd advise cleaning vinegar watered down in a plastic tub. Here in the States you can buy a gallon of 30% acid for relatively cheap, which you will need to water down, but it goes much further that way. A good soak of only a few hours will remove all the surface rust, and a full day will start to remove absolutely everything. It's fairly cheap and easy compared to some of the more exotic options. It'll be hard to make it work for the larger parts, but you should be able to do the chuck and cross slide and such at least. Great video! I'd love to see more.
Noticed on a you tube channel ‘Fabrats’ the guy Paul has a lathe of a similar type, and the flat belt drive has been replaced with a large chain, no cogs on the lathe spindle, it has a tensioner ? Anyway if your interested there are episodes where he’s using it etc
My favourite lathe is still my 1947 Myford M type - which is identical to the last of the Drummonds - I see many similarities in yours. If you are saying there is a 'fore and aft' adjustment on the tailstock, this would be for turning tapers between centres - you need to make sure it is properly zeroed when you want to turn parallel.
the sheaves are called Gibs. I I would get some nuts to lock the gib bolts once set. they tend to move during use. The ability to offset the tailstock is used in turning long tapers on the lathe or adjusting for wear. When cutting steel even with lubricant things tend to get hot. in fact if your trying for exact measurements it's good practice to let things cool down before making your final finish pass. Up and Running is much better than idle and rusting. Good video!
Congratulations! ITS A LATHE! 😊😊😊 Well done Tim and all your helpers! I am very glad to see you return such a magnificent old machine back to a state of usefulness! I hope to see it in many future videos making parts for your projects.
Fine job. I'm soon restoring a 100 year old power hammer on a line shaft like yours. I intend to 3D print a belt out of TPU to see now that works as a more sustainable option for me vs leather. I printed one at work for a small milling machine running 20,000 rpm and it held up fine, time will tell on the big machines.
Your'e doing this the right way round . Get it running and prove that it's worth restoring, then resolve the issues, then dismantle and paint . I'd have a lot more oil over just about everything during a trial build , helps a great deal. An oily rag is your best tool, just keep it out of the whirling parts😄
The reason for the tail stock adjustment from side to side, is to allow you to turn a taper. Later models had what is called a taper attachment, but in the early days the did this by miss-aligning the tail stock.
There is just something so right about a piece of kit like this! Also there is a whole world of (sometimes forgotten) knowledge you need to learn to master it. But small steps are good! One way to find the centre of your piece in the chuck is to face it off (cut a new surface across the end) you can see easily where the middle is. Normally a special bit is used in a chuck on the tailstock to cut a small indent in the end which you can then locate your live end in! ....... Blood and sand, that memory came right back from my 1070's school experience ;o) If you keep loosing the belt off the end of the motor try sanding it to a shallow curve with the widest part in the middle so the belt tries to go there! I am obviously no machinist but not all materiel needs to be cooled by liquid ..... Cast Iron, Brass and Aluminium spring to mind! There is also something deeply evocative of the smell of a good workshop with hot oil that you can not get anywhere else! The mind is a funny thing isn't it? Final tip (that I suspect you know already) is Scotch Brite! Not just good for cleaning those stubborn stains from your burnt pan but used with oil on surfaces like your lathe give a really cleaned rust free surface you can be proud of (especially if you have a wheel for your battery drill) ...... it might just ease those stiff spots too!
For tooling I would suggest finding tungsten carbide tipped tools, they tend to stand heat much better than tool steel and once you have the leg you only change the tips. Price wise they're a bit more expensive (if you get the highest quality ones) but they save you a lot of time on shaping and sharpening the tool steel.
Old clapped out gear isn't rigid enough to use tungsten carbide tooling on. Tungsten carbide is very brittle so it doesn't tolerate chatter and being slapped around. You're better off running steel tools. Steel is tougher.
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 If you turn between centers, or between chuck and center. You will probably find its at least a few thou off - thicker or thinner in one end. This is when you can adjust the tail stock to suit. A lathe must be leveled very accurately to turn true. For this you must have a machinist's level.
It's ironic that over here in North America (Canada in particular), while we're an officially-metric country, you can easily find imperial-sized hardware at most hardware shops, and indeed, many of our consumer goods still use imperial-sized hardware. Metric nuts and bolts are still considered by many to be "exotic". My restoration project (a 1971 former-NATO satellite ground terminal) has a delightful mix of imperial and metric fasteners. When working on a new part, you never know whether it will be imperial or metric. Keeps life exciting :)
Dear Tim With regards to new belts for the Drummond. May I highly recommend a Fenner Drives product, namely their Powertwist belting. It has the huge advantage of being a (modern, hi-tech) link belt so you DO NOT have to dismantle any spindles/shafts to put the belt on. My Myford lathe has Power twists belts on it and apart from being much easier to install, I get much better finishes as the machine vibrates less with the Powertwist than regular V belts. It is a US company but I am sure they are available by the foot (or metre) in the UK. Hope that may be helpful. Sincerely, Paul
The reduction gearing you are referring to is known as a back gear. My father had one of these lays complete with the cast iron stand that was meant for the turtle we had the motor mounted on the back and the belt actually went around the shaft of the back gear. How do you get that off and then put the belt on I don't know. If you were worried about breaking the casting to take the back gear assembly of i can understand that
Brilliant Tim, what a lovely old girl. Definitely deserved to be saved, lots of life left in the old girl yet. You could always try giving he a rub down with a very fine sand paper, might help with the transition in those worn bits. 👍
I am pleasantly reminded of restoring/reviving my grandfather's old Atlas. It was locked up as well, but today sits at the ready, covered in fresh chips a few times a month. The back-gear mechanism is similar, but it pivots in or out, rather than sliding to the side. I had to replace the main drive pulley and the drive belt, but that turned out to be easy once I found that adjustable link v-belts were a thing. Also, those are gibs, not sheaves. That carriage is enormous, but the tool post is silly with that cantilever, agreed? And I would call that a "live center". Those steel chips don't look too bad, they turned blue so most of the heat of the cut went into the swarf like it's supposed to. Pick a slower speed and be aggressive unless it starts to chatter, then back off. Continuously varying the spindle speed can help reduce chatter as well, as it is often a sub-harmonic oscillation.
Might I suggest a few evenings reading 'The Amateur's Lathe' by Laurence Sparey. It is old but still relevant and all the more so to a lathe of this vintage. It is an easy read.
You can of course have a V belt with joins. They have multiple segments which clip, or are riveted together. They were all over the place on dad's farm. Pumps, saws, drills etc.
I've restored an old lathe, not as damaged as yours, nor as old, but it is a lot of fun. Some quick points: What you're calling a sheave I've seen as a "gib" (hard G). There are gib screws and gib retainers and it's easy to get them confused. Usually one screw will have a slot to land in and that screw keep the gib in place and the other screws are made to apply just the right pressure. Next, flattening the ways may not be the big deal you're thinking it would be: the best method is still the old one, Hand Scraping and it all depends on how much scraping you want to get into. You take a reference surface that you know is dead flat, mark it up with some blue ink, rub it on the surface you want flat and the blue ink transfers to the high spots. Take a carbide or hardened steel tipped scraper and scrape the blue bits off then repeat to get it as flat as you like. But I agree with you that you probably don't want to fiddle with that right now: that for when you're looking for really restoring the lathe to it's old level of accuracy. Every bit of the old girl should be slathered in oil by the way. That's just how she was designed and she needs frequent oiling. Keep the oil can handy. As for why you can slide the tailstock to the side, that's terribly handy if you want to cut tapers. Just pull the other end out of alignment with your chuck and you'll be cutting tapers. It much easier to do than trying to get the cross slide to just the right angle. Finally, you want to look for "Tool Steel Blanks": lots of them available on the net: I can get them here for about $5 US you should have something similar on your side of the pond.
Thank you John. Other people have explained the adjustable tailstock - but not how you would secure a piece at the chuck end when turning tapers - how does that work?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Use a dead center in the chuck and a lathe dog to keep the material from spinning in the chuck: See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathe_dog The picture makes it clear.
A good source for flat belts as loops are car timing belts turned inside out. Yes, they are not designed to run like that and will not last forever and there is not much rubber on the former "outside". But for light use, they should work.
A nice vintage machine, but good to see it still works. Flat belts were joined by lacing for many decades. Some folks still prefer a laced belt. Special wire pieces are crimped in each part then a pin joins the two pieces. Look up lacing flat belts. If you want a V belt, then you can look up segmented V belt or linked V belt or adjustable V belt. I have such belts on some of my machines. They work well and do not take a "set" if the machine is not used for a long time. The gear reduction you mentioned is commonly called a "bull gear". This is very useful to reduce the lathe speed for e.g., threading. My metal lathe also has a bull gear. The sheaves are normally called gibs. Some are parallel and some are tapered. The tailstocks are often designed with adjustment front-to-back in order to be able to align the headstock to the tailstock since the headstock design normally does not move. Lookup HSS cutters. Many 2 1/2in long pieces of HSS cutters are available in many sizes and not expensive - at least in the US.
if I recall correctly, that overheated metal is because you're not creating 'chips'.. which is a whole thing about depth of cut, speeds, etc. but, I think, and I'm a beginner on lathes at best. you may have a dull cutter, which could cause this. but geometry on the cutting tip might also be an issue. but, I'm also pretty sure a more experienced person will chime in with some sage advice and direction. :-) I cheated and used carbide cutters, soo.. :-D
Please don’t change speeds with the motor running. You’re much too nice of a man.
It was common back in the day when they hade overhead drive via steam or diesel. With a flat belting you can just force it over with the hand. It's shown in old books.
@@CandidZuluwhen they had overhead drives there were mechanisms to "safely" move the belts over. I have one i rescued from an old mill. Still wouldn't use it myself. Belts were quite dangerous in those environments and i've read lots of accounts of people literally losing their arms after getting their clothes snagged. Realise it's not quite the same situation but i've always taken the view it's better safe than sorry with something like this.
Yes I was concerned as well that he left the motor running temporary lapse and loose cuffs but a nice job
I have a Mod A 14x39 Monarch built in 1916 that is driven by a flat belt from an overhead line shaft. I will quite often change steps without shutting down the motor. This can only be done if there is a matched stepped cone pulley on the driving shaft.
And you know he's a nice man how?
The entire extent of my lathe knowledge comes from watching TH-cam videos, and you clearly have mountains more than I likely ever will...
But, watching your loose cuff being so close to the belt when you changed gears and the motor turning gave me shivers...
As for the lathe and your fixes... this is why i love your channel - you're an inspiration to inventors everywhere. Not only do you have the crazy ideas, but you actually build the prototypes and carry on through to the end!! Amazing work!
I also! I'm also cringing from the amount of crusty rust on this..
Yeah mate, totally agree. Please dont wear loose clothing around these machines guys. They chew you up very quickly and very unforgiving.
Me too.
Actually, the bloke who made this video knows VERY LITTLE about lathes and even less about safety when working with, and repairing machinery ! God forbid anyone new to metal working watches it and thinks what he is doing here is acceptable practice.
Congratulations Tim on bringing this machine back to life! A couple of points - Never leave the chuck key in the chuck; that was the first rule that I learnt when I was an apprentice. Always keep morse tapers scrupulously clean and the same goes the for when mounting the chuck. I would repsectfully suggest that all moving parts must be well lubricated. Should you decide to correct the wear on the bed, cross slide and compound slides this can be done by hand carrying out the process known as 'scraping'. A scraper can be made from an old large file. Finally keep the overhang of the tools to a minimum for two main reasons: A) it will prevent chatter and a rough finish on your work piece and for safety. Have fun. Best wishes.
The sheeves are actually called "gibs". The tail stock can move sideways so you can cut a taper on a shaft. The big nut on the top of the tail stock is probably the lock for the tail stock. Loosen and the tail stock shaft should move easier. The big gear that makes it run slower is called the "the back gear". Thanks for sharing your old metal lathe!! Very cool!!
Thank you - so much to learn! (Gibs. I wonder where I got sheaves from?)
@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299
Those tee slots on the saddle can be used to clamp a workpiece amongst other stuff thus turning your lathe into a milling machine of sorts.
Sheaves are another name for pulleys, maybe you read it somewhere in regards to the step pilleys on the lathe and got it crosswired, or had it mashed up with "shim" somehow???
The "rivets" in the shaft are probably taper pins, the can only be knocked out from one side. As @mwagner says your sheaves are called "gibs", which in the US are called "Gibs with a "g", whereas in the UK they are called "gibs" with a "j" like the "jib" on a sailing boat! A huge fascinating world is opening up for you! All the best, Matthew
I agree, probably taper pins.
It’s pretty important to remove all that surface rust of the bed ways etc before you slide that saddle about too much and then get some proper slide way oil. A nice old lathe , great to see it being preserved
Thanks!
As a part time retired metal lathe machinist, it appears that most of the saddle drag can be attributed to the corrosion on the way's of the lathe. Eventually it'll be okay after lubrication and cleaning. Another pro-tip is that in order for you to sharpen cutting bits is using polishing stones to properly contour your cutting edge of the bit.
Thanks Mark. I shall experiment..
I went ahead and liked this before watching. You know it's gonna be good.
Likewise👍
I do the same. I will forget if I don't do it right away. 😂
If you want to change to a V belt, you can use Brammer Link Belting that runs in Vee pulleys but let’s you split it to fit. Enjoy the videos look forward to seeing the lathe in action.
I really appreciate people like you Tim, who keep the old machines running. New stuff has no soul, no history.. And the brilliant people who designed these things in the first place!
Very interesting and entertaining as always, but please Tim PLEASE fasten your cuffs or wear short sleeves. It looks terrifying to see it running and open sleeves so close !!! . Concern, not criticism.
Nice video and good that you rescue the machine. About 30 years ago a worked in the metal workshop from a building company and the turner ( man behind the lathe) always ( every day at about 15:45 h) cleaned the sliding rails on the bed clean with cotton wats ( these fluffy things) and then he oiled them with clean wats. He had a wooden "grill" (2x0,8m) under his feed to stand on. He told he has less cold feet then and you are not standing/walking on the spanes that fall on the ground when turning. They fall between the grill openings. Regards from the Netherlands
My grandpa taught me over 50 years ago on a path of that vintage. He had a line shaft the powered all the machines with one motor and the old lathe was flat belt drive from the line shaft. Old and well worn but it worked pretty well and we used it quite often and on some large parts. If this fool kid could learn, you certainly can. I'd recommend getting an old "Machinery Guide" manual. Every machinist had one and it explains all the operations and procedures in understandable language and pictures. You'll be amazed at what those little books can show you! And they are usually available and inexpensive. I've found some labeled "Machinist Guide". The ones printed during WWII were very good. It will explain sharpening cutting bits for the different needs, tapers, threading, and proper.setups.
What a wonderful old machine. There's plenty of life left in it.
I really enjoyed this video as I do every one of your videos. I want to keep enjoying them so I do think you need to take heed of some of safety concerns voiced here.
I think there should be a wick inside the bearings!?
23:25 Brilliant video I love old engineering… just a suggestion using a lubricant will help improve the cut. We were always told this at school, our metalwork teacher gave us old baked bean tins, one for each lathe and we used to have to half fill them with a milky looking cutting fluid and with a paintbrush we had to keep applying the cutting fluid regularly. Factory lathes often had a continuous drip feed onto the job.
If you start getting smoke off then your tool is overheating, it expands and you get horrible “bar code” finishes. It seems nowadays when I watch a lot of videos with people drilling, cutting and machining that they forget to keep the tools cool and lubricated. It would be good for folk to start encouraging the use of it.
Many thanks again for a fascinating video. ❤
Those spindle bearings probably need oil drippers fitted to the threaded holes at the top. The 1959 Myford ML7 I use has them. They have adjustable needle valves to provide 1 drop of oil every 30 seconds or so.
I can heartily recommend Blondihacks Lathe Skills tutorial series here on youtube. Comprehensive, easy to understand, and also entertaining.
A big second for Blondihacks!
I used to work in an old mill, and the amount of oil soaked into the flooring was mind boggling. Enjoy oiling all the points on that old lady!
Some of my favorite lathes are older than me. A handy feature on some modern machines is a foot break to stop the workpiece quickly. With a bit of tinkering you could lift the motor off the belt and add breaking to the spindle. Good luck with that beauty!
'Some of my favorite lathes..'! I'm jealous : - )
A footbrake would guarantee that the Lathe stops spinning and the chuck would keep going,unwind and smack the operator in the goolies. Not a good idea.
Not sure if it’s been mentioned already in the comments but the double height arrangements of slide ways appears to give you the ability to swing larger diameter items near the head stock ( say with a larger diameter chuck or a faceplate ) but still keep the rigidity of the bed the longer items. Many lathes had a removable bit of the bed near the headstock which achieved the same purpose but this seems a elegant alternative way to give you more swing. The motor pulleys were often stepped as well both to give you more speed range and so the the motor does not have to move side ways. Love your videos and stay safe !
About the movement in the tail stock. If you put in a long shaft in the lathe. One end in the chuck and the other end in the tail stock and you turn it the whole way you will see that it's maybe 30mm in one end and 29mm in the other end! Than you have to adujst the tail stock forward or backwords! 🙂
Metal work pieces pretty much always get hot, keep a spray bottle of machine coolant or cutting oil handy for drilling, or when taking a larger cut, makes a nicer finish and keeps heat down to reduce tool wear, Also try to keep the chips from "stringing" if a long stringy chip gets caught by the chuck it can cause some serious cuts to you, metal lathes are least dangerous when you respect them and use common sense. And good on ya for bringing that century old workhorse back to life, It will outlast a new lathe, and with a little more repairing, hold better accuracy too, my dad has a 1930s southbend lathe, It will hold within one thousandth of an inch
21:45 The tailstock moves sideways to allow turning tapers. It won't work on bar stock - and mostly needs a 4 jaw chuck with part held in the jaws only and not protruding through the back of the chuck.
you could get a link belt, they take the place of a v belt but come apart for easy install.
He could, but I'm glad he didn't, it's nice seeing it run on flat belts as the designers intended.
The easiest way to use a stepped pulley flat belt lathe is to use a counter shaft also with a stepped pulley but handed the other way from the lather so that small drives to large and large to small. You can then put a V belt pulley on the end of the counter shaft and drive that from an electric motor mounted on the back of the lathe pedestal. I am not currently in the UK or I would send you a photo of this arrangement on my similar vintage but slightly larger Willson Smith lathe. The counter shaft should be mounted on a swinging frame to tension the flat belt and to permit speed ratio changes.
Well done sir. I refurbed a 1924 Dalton 4 lathe. my real problem was getting a motor mounted with a pulley that went slow enough to not destroy the lathe. Like yours, mine had no bearings other then babbitts. getting these old beasts alive again is pure joy.
What a piece of history you've got your hands on here. Thank you for treating her right and breathing life into her once again. It brings a tear to my eye. Truly.
The things you call shives are gib strips on a lathe or milling machine. The tail stock is able to move sideways to align it with the centerline of the chuck and also to allow you to cut a taper with the work in the chuck and the live center in the tailstock. To remove whatever you have in the tailstock, there should be a hole running through the tailstock for a knock out bar fed in from the right hand end.
Please note your handwheel that moves the saddle along runs backwards compared to all conventional lathes. If you get to work on a ‘normal’ metal lathe you will need to take great care. My very old myford is the same. What a find! 😊
What a wonderful machine, great work getting it running again!
Tim loving his old machines again, never change that Tim.
You can turn wheels for the railway now!
Dear inventor Tim.
Only 4 minutes in and I already have to ask you to kindly allow me a suggestion: You can easily fabricate a sturdy V- belt pulley on your lathe. Then cut it in half, put in holes and threads and press/screw it onto the shaft you didn't want to remove. If you think that this shaft's bearings are strong enough to act as the new drive shaft, my suggestion could be a relatively easy middle way
Best regards, luck and health in particular.
I think there would have been a oil wick in the oil reservoir 😊
True, my thoughts as well.
I love the old stuff. Great work that you save it and put it to work again.
The non rotating center is called a dead center and it's used with lubrication on slow turning items. The other center with the ball bearing is called a live center. There should be a Chuck that fits in the tail sock and you use something called a center drill to create a hole in your material in which the live or dead center fits to support the end of the piece particularly if it is sending out a long ways. Good luck
Thank, John. So much to learn!
On behalf of old ladies everywhere - well done! 👏👏 😊
I’m looking forward to your next episode,you know the one where you catch your jacket sleeve in all that spinning machinery.Good luck 😅
Wow, just wow. Don’t understand any of it, as usual, but I do love thinking about and watching equipment made in pre-AI times. My husband, a photographer, has these really old cameras that are perfect and that’s just SO amazing - and satisfying.
Hi.. same old lady running in my shop..use a vehicle timing beld turned upside down on the flat pulley. Get a drive for the motor to change the speed.
The most satisfying mechine to work on.
Nice lathe I’m looking forward to seeing it in future projects. Good interesting video. Thanks Tim
I don't know if adjustable v belts are easily available here, but they are made of identical, interlocking segments. This allows you to open the belt, adjust the length by adding or removing segments. If the belt ever breaks, just replace a segment.
Learning new skills is always a joy for me. Enjoy the journey!
what a beautiful old girl, gr8 to see her getting a new lease on life. the tail stock moves side ways to cut tapers. its a head scratch as you throw the center out. also you cut your first cut with the compound slide I would have just run the saddle out and back for that cut. I learnt my stuff on Engineering apprenticeships which are as older than your lathe. "Sitting with Nelly" it was called. Always fun to see your next interesting endeavour
..Wouldn't that require that the workpiece be free to swivel in the head stock? I'm having a hard time visualizing that operation.
This would have to be turning between centers, using a lathe dog to drive the piece, correct? It still seems wrong, like there would be excessive were on the centers.
Amazing that machinery like that is still running. You did a wonderful job.
I had one of these about thirty years ago. It was labelled as an Admitalty pattern Drummond B' type. I had to make a new spindle and bearings, a new leadscrew and nut and repair the back gear support. Marvellous machine. I part exed it for an old ML7 which also needed lots of work. Thinking back mine was smaller than that and the leadscrew was inside the bed...
What a beauty and worth lots of TLC. I have an IXL of similar type and she runs really well with an electric motor and variable speed control. Take care with the geared headstock please. No cloths and dangly bits!!!
What a lovely bit of machinery, good luck!
4:02 those *may* be tapered pins, not rivets, give them a *close* inspection!
Brilliant video Tim. I wouldn’t do without my Lathes. Had mine about 25 years although a modern Chinese one and a tiny American Taig. They have done so much work over the years. Most people seem to use carbide tips these days but high speed steel is fine if you can sharpen it. Thank you.
I think lathes are my very fav tool. And it looks so beautiful! I love old tools. Can you just imagine the people who used it? The things they did! I definitely enjoyed this video! Say hi to Buttercup for me!❤
Nice old lathe, I have a smaller Drummond lathe that I bought 9 years ago off a chap who had it from his dad, who had it from his grandad! My lathe is I think one step down in size from what I make in the video and for sure a 100 plus years old. I would very much like to restore it completely and use it for small work, but with these hobbies you need the basic 3, ie. time, money and space, of which time there isn't much - just look at how fast the year is flying, money, well that follows time and as for space my garage is not ideal at all. It is an old shed, the roof has several leaks, is full of cobwebs and bad lighting. The lathe is super heavy, sitting on the workshop bench in the back. Some day I will get to it.🐞
You can move the tailstock sideways to allow you to turn a taper. (Turning between centres with a drive dog at the chuck end.)
As usual Tim a great informative video good luck with the rest of your future lathe jobs
The tailstock moves from side to side so you can cut tapers between centers 😉🔧👍
I still have my first lathe, a 3½" Drummond flat bed from about 1903. It has been converted to motor drive with vee belts using a segmented belt. The headstock can swivel and the tailstock slides sideways so you can turn a taper.
If you would like to get serious about removing the rust from it, I'd advise cleaning vinegar watered down in a plastic tub. Here in the States you can buy a gallon of 30% acid for relatively cheap, which you will need to water down, but it goes much further that way. A good soak of only a few hours will remove all the surface rust, and a full day will start to remove absolutely everything. It's fairly cheap and easy compared to some of the more exotic options. It'll be hard to make it work for the larger parts, but you should be able to do the chuck and cross slide and such at least.
Great video! I'd love to see more.
Noticed on a you tube channel ‘Fabrats’ the guy Paul has a lathe of a similar type, and the flat belt drive has been replaced with a large chain, no cogs on the lathe spindle, it has a tensioner ? Anyway if your interested there are episodes where he’s using it etc
My favourite lathe is still my 1947 Myford M type - which is identical to the last of the Drummonds - I see many similarities in yours. If you are saying there is a 'fore and aft' adjustment on the tailstock, this would be for turning tapers between centres - you need to make sure it is properly zeroed when you want to turn parallel.
That's a glorious machine! Congratulations on being the proud owner :^)
Very nice work sir. I love my lathe. It is so handy in the workshop.
the sheaves are called Gibs. I I would get some nuts to lock the gib bolts once set. they tend to move during use. The ability to offset the tailstock is used in turning long tapers on the lathe or adjusting for wear. When cutting steel even with lubricant things tend to get hot. in fact if your trying for exact measurements it's good practice to let things cool down before making your final finish pass. Up and Running is much better than idle and rusting. Good video!
The "sheave" i've always heard called a "gib"
Congratulations! ITS A LATHE! 😊😊😊 Well done Tim and all your helpers! I am very glad to see you return such a magnificent old machine back to a state of usefulness! I hope to see it in many future videos making parts for your projects.
Fine job. I'm soon restoring a 100 year old power hammer on a line shaft like yours. I intend to 3D print a belt out of TPU to see now that works as a more sustainable option for me vs leather. I printed one at work for a small milling machine running 20,000 rpm and it held up fine, time will tell on the big machines.
What a beautiful machine. I got into machining as a hobby quite some years ago. I'm sure you'll find it very rewarding. Thanks for sharing.
The rivets are most likely taper pins. On side is bigger than the other. To remove, use a pin punch on the smaller side to drive out.
Your'e doing this the right way round . Get it running and prove that it's worth restoring, then resolve the issues, then dismantle and paint .
I'd have a lot more oil over just about everything during a trial build , helps a great deal. An oily rag is your best tool, just keep it out of the whirling parts😄
The reason for the tail stock adjustment from side to side, is to allow you to turn a taper. Later models had what is called a taper attachment, but in the early days the did this by miss-aligning the tail stock.
This was an interesting vedio I would love to see it fully restored one day.
There is just something so right about a piece of kit like this!
Also there is a whole world of (sometimes forgotten) knowledge you need to learn to master it. But small steps are good!
One way to find the centre of your piece in the chuck is to face it off (cut a new surface across the end) you can see easily where the middle is. Normally a special bit is used in a chuck on the tailstock to cut a small indent in the end which you can then locate your live end in! ....... Blood and sand, that memory came right back from my 1070's school experience ;o)
If you keep loosing the belt off the end of the motor try sanding it to a shallow curve with the widest part in the middle so the belt tries to go there!
I am obviously no machinist but not all materiel needs to be cooled by liquid ..... Cast Iron, Brass and Aluminium spring to mind! There is also something deeply evocative of the smell of a good workshop with hot oil that you can not get anywhere else! The mind is a funny thing isn't it?
Final tip (that I suspect you know already) is Scotch Brite! Not just good for cleaning those stubborn stains from your burnt pan but used with oil on surfaces like your lathe give a really cleaned rust free surface you can be proud of (especially if you have a wheel for your battery drill) ...... it might just ease those stiff spots too!
That was very good to see you service a old tool and put back to work,
For tooling I would suggest finding tungsten carbide tipped tools, they tend to stand heat much better than tool steel and once you have the leg you only change the tips. Price wise they're a bit more expensive (if you get the highest quality ones) but they save you a lot of time on shaping and sharpening the tool steel.
Old clapped out gear isn't rigid enough to use tungsten carbide tooling on. Tungsten carbide is very brittle so it doesn't tolerate chatter and being slapped around. You're better off running steel tools. Steel is tougher.
The side ways movement of the tail stock is in order to turn tapers, for morse tapers or other tooling as an example.
Ah-ha! Thank you
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 If you turn between centers, or between chuck and center. You will probably find its at least a few thou off - thicker or thinner in one end. This is when you can adjust the tail stock to suit. A lathe must be leveled very accurately to turn true. For this you must have a machinist's level.
WOW! What an neat project !
It's ironic that over here in North America (Canada in particular), while we're an officially-metric country, you can easily find imperial-sized hardware at most hardware shops, and indeed, many of our consumer goods still use imperial-sized hardware. Metric nuts and bolts are still considered by many to be "exotic". My restoration project (a 1971 former-NATO satellite ground terminal) has a delightful mix of imperial and metric fasteners. When working on a new part, you never know whether it will be imperial or metric. Keeps life exciting :)
Dear Tim
With regards to new belts for the Drummond. May I highly recommend a Fenner Drives product, namely their Powertwist belting. It has the huge advantage of being a (modern, hi-tech) link belt so you DO NOT have to dismantle any spindles/shafts to put the belt on. My Myford lathe has Power twists belts on it and apart from being much easier to install, I get much better finishes as the machine vibrates less with the Powertwist than regular V belts. It is a US company but I am sure they are available by the foot (or metre) in the UK. Hope that may be helpful.
Sincerely, Paul
Thanks Paul. (We're in Ireland, but I'll look for something in the EU.)
you could use segmented leather Vee belting i did on my Southbend 5"
what a marvellous machine !
What a wonderful machine!
Nice to see her with fresh chips at the end.
The reduction gearing you are referring to is known as a back gear. My father had one of these lays complete with the cast iron stand that was meant for the turtle we had the motor mounted on the back and the belt actually went around the shaft of the back gear. How do you get that off and then put the belt on I don't know. If you were worried about breaking the casting to take the back gear assembly of i can understand that
Brilliant Tim, what a lovely old girl. Definitely deserved to be saved, lots of life left in the old girl yet. You could always try giving he a rub down with a very fine sand paper, might help with the transition in those worn bits. 👍
great piece and progress
Thanks Tim 😊
A new upload? Better lathe than never!
I am pleasantly reminded of restoring/reviving my grandfather's old Atlas. It was locked up as well, but today sits at the ready, covered in fresh chips a few times a month. The back-gear mechanism is similar, but it pivots in or out, rather than sliding to the side. I had to replace the main drive pulley and the drive belt, but that turned out to be easy once I found that adjustable link v-belts were a thing. Also, those are gibs, not sheaves. That carriage is enormous, but the tool post is silly with that cantilever, agreed? And I would call that a "live center". Those steel chips don't look too bad, they turned blue so most of the heat of the cut went into the swarf like it's supposed to. Pick a slower speed and be aggressive unless it starts to chatter, then back off. Continuously varying the spindle speed can help reduce chatter as well, as it is often a sub-harmonic oscillation.
Thank you - very helpful!
Might I suggest a few evenings reading 'The Amateur's Lathe' by Laurence Sparey. It is old but still relevant and all the more so to a lathe of this vintage. It is an easy read.
The tailstock moves sideways to cut tapers.
I suggest more oil and rags!
respect and careful handling are always needed for an old girl
You can of course have a V belt with joins. They have multiple segments which clip, or are riveted together.
They were all over the place on dad's farm. Pumps, saws, drills etc.
I've restored an old lathe, not as damaged as yours, nor as old, but it is a lot of fun. Some quick points: What you're calling a sheave I've seen as a "gib" (hard G). There are gib screws and gib retainers and it's easy to get them confused. Usually one screw will have a slot to land in and that screw keep the gib in place and the other screws are made to apply just the right pressure. Next, flattening the ways may not be the big deal you're thinking it would be: the best method is still the old one, Hand Scraping and it all depends on how much scraping you want to get into. You take a reference surface that you know is dead flat, mark it up with some blue ink, rub it on the surface you want flat and the blue ink transfers to the high spots. Take a carbide or hardened steel tipped scraper and scrape the blue bits off then repeat to get it as flat as you like. But I agree with you that you probably don't want to fiddle with that right now: that for when you're looking for really restoring the lathe to it's old level of accuracy. Every bit of the old girl should be slathered in oil by the way. That's just how she was designed and she needs frequent oiling. Keep the oil can handy. As for why you can slide the tailstock to the side, that's terribly handy if you want to cut tapers. Just pull the other end out of alignment with your chuck and you'll be cutting tapers. It much easier to do than trying to get the cross slide to just the right angle. Finally, you want to look for "Tool Steel Blanks": lots of them available on the net: I can get them here for about $5 US you should have something similar on your side of the pond.
Thank you John. Other people have explained the adjustable tailstock - but not how you would secure a piece at the chuck end when turning tapers - how does that work?
@@wayoutwest-workshopstuff6299 Use a dead center in the chuck and a lathe dog to keep the material from spinning in the chuck: See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lathe_dog The picture makes it clear.
A good source for flat belts as loops are car timing belts turned inside out. Yes, they are not designed to run like that and will not last forever and there is not much rubber on the former "outside". But for light use, they should work.
A nice vintage machine, but good to see it still works.
Flat belts were joined by lacing for many decades. Some folks still prefer a laced belt. Special wire pieces are crimped in each part then a pin joins the two pieces. Look up lacing flat belts.
If you want a V belt, then you can look up segmented V belt or linked V belt or adjustable V belt. I have such belts on some of my machines. They work well and do not take a "set" if the machine is not used for a long time.
The gear reduction you mentioned is commonly called a "bull gear". This is very useful to reduce the lathe speed for e.g., threading. My metal lathe also has a bull gear.
The sheaves are normally called gibs. Some are parallel and some are tapered.
The tailstocks are often designed with adjustment front-to-back in order to be able to align the headstock to the tailstock since the headstock design normally does not move.
Lookup HSS cutters. Many 2 1/2in long pieces of HSS cutters are available in many sizes and not expensive - at least in the US.
I put on v belt fitting on a similar lathe, haven't got it running yet.
Gotta love this channel
Fantastic. I hope it works well for you.
if I recall correctly, that overheated metal is because you're not creating 'chips'.. which is a whole thing about depth of cut, speeds, etc. but, I think, and I'm a beginner on lathes at best.
you may have a dull cutter, which could cause this. but geometry on the cutting tip might also be an issue. but, I'm also pretty sure a more experienced person will chime in with some sage advice and direction. :-) I cheated and used carbide cutters, soo.. :-D
Hi Tim, the tailstock moves off centre when you need to turn long tapers ! Nice videos.