How to modify and use a Spin indexer (Spindexer)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2022
- In this video I explain what a spin indexer is and how to use it. I show how to modify it on a milling machine to make it more user friendly and I demonstrate indexing on two different projects.
Top Lipton's @oxtoolco video on modifying a spindexer;
• Spindexer Indexer 1
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Just binge watching your channel, great work and thanks for all of the content
Another modification I might recommend is adding a slot to the bottom for a key, to let you directly key the spindexer to the slots on your mill table.
Yes, that is something I’d like to try. Thanks for the tip.
An excellent overview of how to modify the Spindexer for use on a mill. Excellent filming and narration. Thank you for sharing. Glad I found your channel. 👏👏👍😀 Andrew
Thanks Andrew!
Great tips on how to get the spindexer into the vice without bolting it to the table, will definitely try this, thanks!
Thanks!
Very cool! If you haven't seen it already, some folks are modding these spindexers so that the spindle mounts backwwards in the casting. this allows for the bigger end to be farther away from the mill spindle leaving a little more room to work. Been binging your channel, great work on the videos keep them coming!!
Thanks for the tip, I’ve not seen that yet. Will check it out. Thanks for the feedback too, more videos coming soon!
Hi Jonesey, first view of your channel
Excellent video, looking forward to many more
Thanks
Thanks Seamus, much appreciated!
Nice job. Good idea
Great info thanks..
Thanks!
Nicely filmed video Jonesy!
One thing I've recently learned which I wish I knew years ago is that you want the point of a spot drill to be a greater angle than that of your hole making drill.
This allows the point of the twist drill to locate into the point of the spot drill. Unless you have a perfectly ground drill bit, the webs of your drill will contact the widest part of your spotted hole instead of the centre point locating.
This can sometimes cause drill wandering therefore reducing positional accuracy and also introduce chatter and squealing, especially on harder materials. Obviously no big deal for this particular application but for more critical work, it's something to bear in mind.
Looking forward to seeing more from your channel!
Thanks for that Tom, excellent point and a good explanation. I’ll be sure to point that out in the future, in fact it might be good to do a short video just on that subject. Thanks for watching, next video in the pipeline!
Hey Tom, just realised you’re Jess’s son right? I wanted to say thank you so much for the centre drill. Great bit of kit, I’m using it daily in the shop, much appreciated!
@@joneseymakes Yes that's me. You are welcome, no point in letting it sit in my tool chest for another 5 years. You can't beat carbide tooling. All the best with the channel, don't hesitate to reach out if you need anything machining related!
@@tjp148 Thanks Tom!
Yes, 140º+ spot drill included angle for a 135º drill included angle.
Great project. Really enjoy your channel. If you get a chance do a shop tour to see what sort of Lathe and milling machines you've got. BTW WOOD Creek workshop has also done a very interesting Mod to Spindexer. Worth watching. 👍❤
Thanks, I’ll check out that video. Workshop tour video in the works so stay tuned!
Thanks
You could do non integer multiples too. You will have to use a multiple of 360 and then divide down. You have a ratio of n/m when n = turns, m = degrees to turn each time. It means you'll be turning the wheel multiple n times to complete the sequence IIRC. You are in essence doing a modulo divide.
That’s really interesting, above my pay grade in the maths department though! Can you provide a specific example?
These aren't geared internally like a diving/indexing head so no calculation beyond 1-1, no matter how many times you turn the handle the holes won't line up any differently.
Another chap suggested using pins with a reduced diameter tip for smaller divisions 1/2 width for 0.5° etc etc.
For example 321.5° you pin as if you need 321° then rotate clockwise until your 1/2 diameter pin touches, the second pin should then slot into the 322° position.
pin diameter would need to be spot on though, by the time you are needing greater than 0.5° of accurately you might as well buy a proper dividing head.
Tapered tip pins with some sort of depth stops or marking based on diameter could get you finer adjustment, your spindle lock would need to be pretty good to hold using tapered index pins though.
Nicely filmed and good narration. I’ve just purchased the Hemingway die holder following seeing your video.
What model is your miller? It seems to cope with steel nicely.
Thanks! The mill is a Warco Super Major.
Great video what is your next spindexer project? 👍😊
Thanks! I have a project coming up to build a rotary table for the milling machine, I'll need to use the spin indexer to mark the degree graduations around the edge.
I’d would really like to the die holder being made and than it being used thanks.
Thanks for watching Rodney, I’ll be sure to remake the die holder on camera. Cheers!
👍👍👍
9:58 What's the process of determining how far down to mill to get the proper sized hex?
Well, you know what size you need the hex to be across the flats, let's say 16mm. If you are using 20mm bar stock then 20mm - 16mm = 4mm. You need to take cuts either side to produce the flats, so a 2mm depth of cut should result in a 16mm hex.
I fitted a 4 inch 3jaw chuck to mine , mainly because all of my 5c collets went with a lathe I sold. Lot more versatile now though than collets.
Nice idea, I may do the same.
Nice, I was wondering how these spin indexers work. Seem very easy to use, much simpler than dividing heads! Looking at these tailstock die holder adapters, do I get it right that in the end you have threaded holes in both the main dieholder (outer part) and the adapters? Wouldn't it make more sense to just countersink the holes in the adapters, and use cone-point grub-screws? Otherwise I don't quite get how your threads in the outer piece line up with the thread in the adapter. Hopefully I'm expressing myself clearly enough. What I mean is that if you have two parts and both have threaded holes, then if you run a screw through both holes, the parts might be spread apart a bit, depending on how the thread was cut. Unless you clamped the two parts together and cut the threads in both in one go.
Hi Gene, only the outer part is threaded and accepts cone points grub screws. The inner adapter is countersunk.
@@joneseymakes It didn't look like that to me in the video. At 13:48 you're drilling through three holes at the smaller diameter end of an adapter, and mention that you tapped the holes off-camera. At 13:58 you're inserting the small end of the adapter into the die holder, on second watching it actually looks like there are tiny grub screws already in these holes, so looks like the set screws in the outer shell (main diestock body) go into the hex heads of the inner adapter set screws... Which I suppose would work, even if it might damage these inner heads over time...
@@GenePavlovsky Oh yes your right, it's been a while since I watched this. I've made two of these dieholders. The first is pictured here. The second one I made (there is a video on that) I improved the situation and counterbored it
@@joneseymakes That makes sense then. Anyway, great video. Thanks
How about a 1'' Hex die adapter?
I would like to use a spin index to mount a boring head then use it on the lathe to cut convex and concave curves. I think I would have to remove my compound and build an adapter plate to fit the compound mounting and then bolt the index to the plate. Does that sound reasonable or am I making this way harder than it needs to be?
Hi Gill. Depends on what you are trying to achieve. I think what you are describing can be done with a ball turning attachment for the lathe (I will be building one of these shortly). I’ve seen others use a modified boring head to do the same thing, but, I don’t think you need the indexing head for this. If you think about it you need the boring head/ball turner to swing back and forth to cut the concave/convex curve which the indexer will stop you doing as it’s fixed in space. In short you need a ball turning attachment if I’ve understood you correctly.
@@joneseymakes Hi, my thought was to use the 5c indexer for rotating the boring head. I would remove the compound and build a mounting plate that puts the center of the chuck on the same center as the 5c. Using a 3/4 straight shank boring head arbor 1 1/2-18 into the 3" boring head, a 3/4" bore 5c collet in the indexer and mount the indexer 90 degrees to the chuck. This would give me x and y axis movement and the ability to rotate the boring head via the indexer. The radius of the curve would be limited by the range of the boring head adjustment. The indexer would only be used as a means of rotating and not for the index. Yes a ball turning attachment does the same thing, but I don't have that and most of what I have seen are reasonably complex. I'm not all that great with the milling machine and overall what I know I have picked up myself. Herbert lathe and Cincinnati MH-2 mill.
@@gilrand6224 I see, in that case what you're proposing sounds like it'll work just fine.
👍👍😎👍👍
Thanks!
How many degrees are the vernier holes away? 9 or 11 degrees?
9 I think.
@@joneseymakes thanks
I cut a key in the bottom of mine, i also machined the sides and back face true.
I’d like to put a key in the bottom of mine.
There's another modification have seen here u tube it involves reversing it so collet is on opposite side giving you more room
I have hear of that but not actually seen it in action. Do you have any links?
I've noticed you're milling in both directions, does your mill have ball screws?
It doesn't have ball screws no. I do have a DRO though so that accounts for any backlash.
@@joneseymakes I'm a beginner hobby machinist myself. I've read a few books and read some articles, what was mentioned there is that on a manual milling machine, we should use conventional milling - feed against the cutting motion (rotation of the cutter), rather than climb milling (feed towards the cutting motion). And it's related to backlash, but not in a way that a DRO would rectify things. It's also mentioned that you can use conventional milling most of the time, and use climb milling for the final finishing pass, for improved surface finish. I am just wondering why this is so important and is mentioned in many resources, but here in your video you are cutting back and forth, so alternate between conventional and climb milling, and it all seems to be working out just fine. Perhaps it depends on the machine itself, how much backlash there is, cutting parameters etc.?
@@GenePavlovsky Oh I see what you mean. Ball screws have nothing to do with milling direction, they are used in CNC applications because they have minimal backlash compared to a traditional lead-screw. What you've written above is correct regarding climb milling for good finishes. I think at the time I did this I just wanted to get the job done faster! Climb milling does generally leave a better finish.
@@joneseymakes I see. Well as a beginner I have a tendency to try to "follow the rules". It's when you have a bunch of experience that you can decide when to break them and when to follow them.
Edge finding the sides of the inverted base really did not accomplish anything. It was a cast and painted surface. The center datum that you really should have referenced is the center of the spindle. This can be done by clamping the casting to an angle plate, picking up the high point of the spindle with a height stand on a surface plate, and then milling or grinding to your target number while still clamped on the angle plate. Otherwise the center distance from the spindle to the milled edges on the base is just an arbitrary and unrelated value. --Doozer
Hey Doozer, yes completely agree. I wasn’t happy with this setup from the start, I don’t have an angle plate big enough right now so at the time was trying to make the best of it with the tools available. I will re-machine this to be more accurate at a later date. I’m on a learning journey here so it’s always great to hear from more experienced machinists, thanks for the feedback.
@@joneseymakes Good deal bro. I was hoping my comment would not be taken as a negative. Looks good ! Yes you can always machine it more accurately later. I love shop time ! ! ! --Doozer
I like reading, hearing what experienced machinists say as Im learnig too. I just built a 2 cylinder Empire Steam Engine from a single. Flywheel casting from England did have a tough skin on it and dulled my turning tool real quick. Great video.
Would it have been more helpful to make a platform using cones and parallel blocks bolted through the bore of the indexer?
That way you can get the bore perfectly parallel horizontally before machining the base flat.
Dialling it in like you did does not help if it was already wonky.
Does anyone know what the centre height of this thing is?
It's 70mm I think from memory
Is there a spin indexer out there that can be used on a lathe?
You could clamp it to your cross slide if you had Tee slots at the right spacing. Alternatively, take a look at my other videos, I have one where I make an indexing attachment for the lathe that works on the same principle.
@@joneseymakes will do. Thank you
where did you get your indexer..?
I think I got it from RDG Tools in the Uk.
I think I got it from RDG Tools in the Uk.
Доброго вечора ми з України, розуміти мову можливості не маю, але з відео зрозуміло, як ви покращили spindexer. Бачу канал відносно новий, окрім виготовленя приспособ для роботи, яка основна ваша діяльність з таким точним та якісним обладнанням?
Good evening, we are from Ukraine, I don't have the ability to understand the language, but the video shows how you improved spindexer. I see the channel is relatively new, apart from making work equipment, what is your main activity with such precise and quality equipment?
Thanks for the comment and I hope you are managing to stay safe in Ukraine. I have many projects planned but will be focusing on toolmaking in the immediate future. Other things I do in the workshop is making bicycle frames and associated tools and fixtures.
@@joneseymakes не знаю як часто ви будете випускати відео, але я буду відвідувати ваш канал. Подобається те, як ви виготовляєте всі ці речі, весь цей DIY на коліні з палок і гнилих матеріалів набрид, а такого більшість на просторах технічно направлених каналів, ви не знаєте можливо є спосіб створення субтитрів моєю мовою, ютуб автоматично не може перекласти, а хотілось би не тільки картинку бачити, для прикладу на каналі Cutting Edge Engineering Australia, можна створити автоматино субтитри і сам автор чудово розділяє теоретичну частину відео від самої роботи, він спочатку пояснює що збирається робити, тоді процес без слів, а тоді результат та підсумки зробленого. Мені та думаю і не тільки було б комфортно при такому форматі відео навіть без знання мови. Це те, як я все бачу, а ви вже вирішуйте)
I don't know how often you will release videos, but I will visit your channel. I like the way you make all these things, I'm sick of all this DIY on the knee of sticks and rotten materials, and that's what most of the tech oriented channels are like, you don't know maybe there is a way to make subtitles in my language, youtube can't automatically translate, but I wanted to not only to see the picture, for example on the Cutting Edge Engineering Australia channel, you can automatically create subtitles and the author himself perfectly separates the theoretical part of the video from the work itself, he first explains what he is going to do, then the process without words, and then the result and the results of what was done. I think and not only would be comfortable with this video format even without knowing the language. This is how I see everything, and you already decide)
@@ivanmoroz3881 I will do some research on how to provide subtitles in other languages, thanks for watching!
should have centered off the spindle not the base
Yep, I know. However, I couldn’t work out at the time how to hold it with the spindle in and the base exposed for machining at the same time.
Cones bolted through parallel blocks maybe?
Who makes a Spindexer with an R-8 spindle not 5-C?
Not sure sorry, I’m sure they exist though
I bought one of these indexers and it's a piece of shit. Why? Because, like all tools, it's made in China. The spindle has a 0.006 play and the collar holding the spindle in is loose; they should have also made it at least an inch long so that it slips into the spindle with greater surface area A split sleeve would have been better. God forbid the Chinese make efforts to make these spinners BETTER. And f**k spending time fixing something that is suppose to be NEW!! Why would anyone buy a spinner knowing that the body has a 0.006" oversized bore? This is worse than a used one. So I'm throwing mine away because I ABHOR cheap tools! To hell with all of them!
I agree. Unfortunately it’s hard to buy quality tooling at a decent price these days. Seems like everything is either import or Uber expensive.