Faction Focus - Warriors of Chaos - Rules, Roster & More - Warhammer The Old World - Fantasy
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ส.ค. 2024
- So I was granted early access to the rule books for Warhammer the Old World and as you know I own a lot of armies so in this little video series I want to focus on all the CORE factions in the reboot of Warhammer Fantasy. Discuss their rules, roster and pros and cons so let's begin with the WARRIORS OF CHAOS!
Faction Focus - Warriors of Chaos - Rules, Roster & More - Warhammer The Old World - Fantasy
#warhammer #theoldworld #warhammerfantasy
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We'll be talking about the legacy faction stuff later today :)
Is there any chance you will be able to share point costs? or are you not allowed to do so?
In the current format, I could see them making each Monogod it's own Army of Infamy. Which will give them access to Daemons and units like Skullcrushers and Hellstriders.
Do Chaos Character still have to challenge all the time? That's a rule I hope to see gone.
Just picked up some AoS Slaves to darkness to put on square bases. Absolutely pumped for Old World
It’s tough, I decided to focus on movement trays to keep a thematic looking army
If I had to guess regarding the missing specific god units, crushers, striders, etc... I'd say that it is a lore wise decision.
The setting is meant to look at the decades before Asurval Kull (or whatever his face) ascension, the destruction of Praag, his defeat at Kislev and so on. During this period, Chaos wasn't ascendant and rampaging freely on the world. It is after the Great War Against Chaos that the Chaos energy flows free on the world.
So my guess is that the are holding onto God specific units in order to advance the setting, possibly some campaign books?
Yeah this is quite literally what GW have said. It was a narrative choice.
Nathan you are so clearly in your element here! Please consider doing painting streams, id love to hear you just go on and on about your armies and experiences with the hobby. I've known you for a long time as the "Enthusiastic lore guy for Total War" but now I'd really love to see you become my (and many others') main fantasy hobby content creator :D
Painting streams are a bit tough purely because of my cats but I do have plans to do some fun Old World streams:)
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges I relate with the cat conundrum on such a personal level lol
This is super helpful! Thanks for making this video, and I'm looking forward to coverage of other factions.
Damn Chaos Warriors got absolutely shafted. Their damage output was halved and they lost part of their armour.
this is part of an overall downtuning of the games powerlevel, its healthy imho
My suggestion on the no-skullcrushers etc. I'd give chaos knights/chosen knights the mark of khorne etc and use the skullcrusher models for those datasheet. Hope it helps
The bases should be barely big enough
Now I can justify to myself to buy the new slaves to darkness minis. Its not my third AoS army its my TOW army
(Maybe it can be both if I get those trays that use circle bases)
Dragon shaggoth+addiotnnal weapon+slug skin+blackened plate : WS6 A6 S6 T5 A6, armor save 2+, ward save against flaming attack 3+, -1 to be hit in close combat. Tough.
I'm drooling here
Rerolling 6s to hit sounds good actually as all the Armour Bane are activated on 6s and Chaos Warriors and Knights have good armor.
To be fair Nurgle isn't really my jam so might be my bias against them lol but overall Warriors are in a good spot overall anyways
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges Also, explain to me how you can be a chaos boy and call yourself "the great book of grudge". That's a grudge in my book! 😜
So many things only hit on 5s/6s, so refilling 6s will be strong
Keep these coming please!
Dragon ogre Shaggoth+Slug Skin+Blackned plate+additionnal weapon : WS6 S6 A6 T5 W6, , armor save of 2+, ward save 3+ gainst flaming, -1 to be hit hit in close combat.Tough
En-SORC-elled weapons 😂
Good review
Awesome! Keep these coming! :D
Great video! And remember, the rerolling of 6s lets you avoid lots of abilities that trigger on that value.
Definitely looking forward to starting Warriors of Choas. Thanks for the analysis.
The Chaos Armour and the removal of str based armour pen scaling is a big nerf of chaos warriors. They got easy to str6, what would be -3 ap with lances or str5 magic weapons, what would have been -2ap. Even the base chaos warrior has str4 what is excactly the -1ap what the rule gives.
A big part of the chaos warriors and knights, was the fact, that they got to 1+ armour on mount or 3+ armour on foot WITOUTH magic items. So they could take more offensive/uttility stuff...
How in the world is str based armour pen scaling a "big" nerf when all your examples are exactly the same right now with enscrolled weapons?! Lances are AP -3 right now for WoC with a chance for AP-4. As you said, Chaos Warriors are literally the same (since they do not have access to Great Weapons where this difference would matter). The only units that really suffer from this are monstrous units that had a good base S - which made an influence even on hand weapons - and characters. But this is true for basically every monstrous unit and character for all factions, not specifically for WoC (I would argue it is even less problematic for WoC, which has good access to AP-heavy weaopons, good WS and I values and as already didn't have a big gap between those monsters and basic units - this is totally different for armies that relied on their monsters and monstrous units to get access to good S and AP).
The loss of a better armour save is also irrelevant in most cases, since Str based armour pen was something your enemy also used and as such in most fights with units build against WoC was often times worse (a Lizardmen Lord could easily reach Str 5-6 with a shield or other ways to boost other stats instead, meaning an AP of -2 or -3 - now the same unit actually needs a AP-Based weaopon often resulting in the need of two-handed weapons which means that many Chaos Warriors will still hit at the same time or earlier which is important with such good stats, inherent AP and without step up). The only ones profiting from this are enemy units with Str 3 without access to AP weapons ... which often are not scary anyways since they will have a lower S, WS and I (if being charged by Warriors) and will be minced by Warriors resulting in no step up (again, because most of those units are also not heavily armed, meaning that the inherent AP from Enscrolled is enough). In reality, AP is in general far rarer to find which makes a 4+ still very good, especially considering that Nurgle can counter Armour Bane and that you still have chosen chaos warriors if you really want that 3+ save and have access to I 5 with slannesh (meaning that they can counter Great Weapons).
This also does not take into account how big an inherent ward save is in a world where big mounts add their stats to the rider, especially when negative Armour value is not a thing anymore and you play a faction with good access to heavy armour and more on heroes/lords.
The loss of an Attack is far more significant, which is made up to a good extend by enscrolled weapons, since - again - AP is way harder to come by in the Old World in basically all factions and as such is even more valuable to have constant access to.
Ok, it is not only the normal chaos warriors and the knights variants. It is the Heroes, 2h marauders, monsters and such things, not only from chaos warriors, that lose the rend rule. So there is close to no point to play 2h chosen as I get it, because that do not get the -1 rend rule... same as flail/2h barbarians or dragonogres with 2h weapons. So the high str. Factions lose the rend, they would normaly have and, as I did see, don´t get a points reduction from the old values, where they had it.
Chaos knight core
WE RIDE INTO SOUTH TO RECLAIM OUR FATHERS' RIGHT!
I'm all for there being just one unit of Chosen. That's why they are the Chosen
That's how it was in 6th. Most of this is pretty much just 6th edition chaos which were also incredibly good/fun. 8x chosen knights with lord of some kind, just deleted the first ranks of units and didnt get touched. Could disrupt a fair amount of the opponent's army while the rest of your list held things in place.
The Mono-god lists will be in the Arcane Journal for Warriors of Chaos. They even have the opportunity to bring some of the AoS units like Blood Warriors and Kairic Acolytes, as well as bring back Putrid Blightlords and Hellstriders back into the setting; which I have no problem with as I'm rebasing my Acolytes to work as my Tzeentch Marauders.
I don't understand why they went with the terminology of Light Armour/Heavy Armour/Full Plate, instead of Light Armour/Medium Armour/Heavy Armour
I dont think it matters
@@Remixersoloman apart from being needlessly obtuse 🥴
ENSORCELLED
You know, Nathan, I was just thinking about the Warriors of Chaos in Total War Warhammer 3, and I say they deserve a Chosen Chaos Knights unit for anti-infantry, as well as a variant of the Chosen Chaos Knights with lances for anti-large. Not to mention those Chosen Chaos Knights also deserve a mark of chaos for any of the monogod chaos factions, be it the Mark of Nurgle, the Mark of Slaanesh, considering Slaanesh is your favorite monogod faction that is, the Mark of Tzeench, or the Mark of Khorne.
Warshrine is missing, correct. Loved my home built 7th Ed Warshrine
+1 inititive in the first round of combat seems minor if the charging bonus is iirc like +3
The rules look so cool.
It's bizarre GW didn't include any daemons, literally half the flavor of the chaos factions just omitted entirely
GW might be doing something where they don't let Daemons (or even Daemonic mounts) out until Asavar Kul arrives on the scene, since we are supposed to eventually get the Great War against Chaos IIRC
Edit: Still not something I either agree with or like mind you. Just trying to come up with an in universe reason.
@@RukdugGW honestly was not expecting The Old World to sell nearly as well as it is, so they didn't want to commit to supporting a large model line for it right away. The fact that TOW is their bestseller right now means we'll probably see Daemons for TOW soon enough. They'll definitely be the first legacy faction they reneg on saying not to expect.
It's also partly I'm guessing to do with the lore reasons. The first big chaos invasion hasn't happened. Meaning the only living people that know about chaos are the elves. Chaos is relatively not understood outside a very few handful of people.
Love this. I hope an all Slaanesh focused army with corresponding Marks will be viable and fun to play. That is what I want to hobby.
Please do more videos like this
In the current format, I could see them making each Monogod it's own Army of Infamy. Which will give them access to Daemons and units like Skullcrushers and Hellstriders.
I've been watching a lot of content on the TOW and noticed a couple changes here that work out well:
Pretty much every army has easy access to a spell or ability to ignore armor save. With armor modifiers on weapons and not strength, this could make chaos much more tanky.
A good number of abilities, like the very common armor bane, proc on 6s. Getting rid of those 6s is great. Plus it will turn some hits into misses. Add in a native 6+ ward save and the possibility of T5, Nurgle warriors is going to be very hard to kill.
Winds of Chaos is honestly really good I think. Movement isn't just move forward, charge, and blow through stuff in combat like before or stop the opponent from doing that and do it in return. Charging takes into account your movement again. You'll only need a 5+ to get the boosted Winds of Chaos, because you add wizard level to casting. Forcing an Empire Knights unit, for example, to charge at movement 5 instead of 7 could mean the difference in being able to counter charging with your own knights or them outright failing charges is huge. Cast this on a Dwarf unit and they're going to be move 1.
IIRC, Chaos Knights were always core/mortal.
"Chaos are a faction near and dear to my heart".... OK Nathan...
I have 2 chaos marks tattooed :) one Undivided and one Slaaneshi
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges ha!
Great review, thanks for that.
But I will say, there isn't going to be all the stuff fir chaos like before due to the narrative, the release is set 25-30 years before the chaos wars which is where all the daemons, God specific units, weapons, spells came to fruition.
So please bear that in mind. I think chaos are exactly where they need to be at this time as they wasn't as powerful.
I plan to just use the AoS Slaves to Darkness Warriors as they are essentially the same thing, only the shields looking different.
The warhounds could come with an optional chaos warrior handler in 5th. He was exactly the same as the rank and file chaos warriors except he counted as a unit champion in every way except the ability to hold magic items.
in 5th, chaos warriors were 24 points and were M 4/WS 6/BS 6/S 4/T 4/W 1/I 6/A 2/LD 9 and could be upgraded with a variety of equipment loadouts and chaos armour, so I'm a little sad to see that only Chosen get it now, but them's the breaks I guess.
It will be interesting to see what the Arcane Journal adds, and I'm looking forwards to the unit releases, even if I end up not buying the faction box and building piecemeal instead
can you please show all the points and stats from the units datasheets??
EnSORCElled weapons, not EnSCROlled weapons. It means they are coated in magic, not wrapped in paper xD
For armies of infantry I could indeed see them bring back the god specific units alongside stuff for conversions. For Nurgle there's enough Tamurkhan stuff to bring back and Tzeentch could get something like the option to upgrade champions to aspiring sorcerers (lvl 1 wizard with only signature spells?). Add to this some army of infamy specific rules and limited marks and you might be onto something.
Is it supposed to be Ensorcelled weapons?
Awesome video Subbed mate!
I imagine there will be some units in the arcane journal too. Much like Tk and Bret’s
Why don't you focus more on our friendship instead Nathaniel, we've not hung out in weeks.
Brutal.
Oof. They used your whole first name, you made someone really upset 😂.
Gittem!
😢😮
Have a bunch of old Slaanehs units from late 90s to early 2000s, so might put togheter a small Slaaensh force.
Nurgles even better as it makes the enemy reroll armour bane hits.
Edit: oops I'm wrong I thought armorbane was 6s to hit.
HELLCANNON?! Does that mean we finally get a chance to buy some sort of Official Chaos dwarf models again?!
Didn't even think of that you're absolutely right
They did the hell cannon for warriors of chaos in I think 7th ed, it's not related to any CD stuff like big hats or FW
@@andrewpavone54296th* ya no big hats 😢
Wonder how good the new chaos knights in AOS would work as these fancy new chosen knights?
On 30x60s I imagine they would fit fairly well as I recall peoole fitting them on 25x50 with a little effort
They fit really well, I’ve done ten and just needed to clip a few cloaks a bit
CA should put on the Warriors of chaos roster in Tww3 the Chaos knights and make the one we have Chosen Chaos Knights so we have this cool version on the warband tree. And always missing the Undivided Khorne Warriors that we didn't get in the CoC dlc. So bad to not have this different as they did for slaanesh mauroders.
I really like that the random roll cannot turn your characters into different troop types anymore. Still a great impact (for good or bad), but way more reasonable. Loving it.
15:16 Slaughterbrute and Mutalith Vortex Beast are also not part of the armylist.
It's because there's no older model for the chaos warshrine so the only one is now a aos model and they don't want anything crossing over at all , all the chaos art work in the book is the older Oop models rather than the new models .
"Enscrolled weapons"
13 points for a basic chaos warrior, auch ! Especially if its true that they are down to one attack now.
God specific units are in the Arcane Journal
Although it's set in a time when Chaos isn't as strong as it will eventually be. Kind of cool that they did that because technically, you could still play Fantasy during the End Times. It's just that it's such an expensive hobby. I love playing war games, but I hate putting models together & painting them. It's a catch-22 for me
I'm about 4 games in. They're balanced. Tough as nails ( yes, warriors are still great ), mighty in combat and magic. I have tied 3 and won a game. 20 warriors with MoN and a Sorcerer with Fleshy Abundance is no joke.
err are you sure you don't mean *ensorcelled* weapons?
Can AOS Warriors of Chaos and Chaos knights be used in Old World?
Cant wait to see Chosen Chaos Knights in TWW3 !!!
Not a fan or Tzeentch getting resist, flaming atk, and +1 cast for their wizards in a unit. Khorne's hatred of magic and punishment of sorcerors should really get something for saying no to spells.
I agree with Khorne not having the Magic Resistance. I was really sad to see that go in the last edition of WHF.
I'm not saying Frenzy isn't good, but it's the only mark you can actually lose your benefit. I would've liked to see a rider clause saying they can only lose frenzy in combat with the worst outcome (whatever they're calling it, I don't remember), unless that's just how the new frenzy works.
As a Khorne fan I think the number of spells in the book is plenty, maybe even to much.
think you missed that Ensorcelled weapons is ONLY for hand weapons and if you take any other weapon you lose the rule
Will you do a video on key words and stats and how they work in battle? I don't know anything bout the table top, coming from total war but want to get into table top.
I might finally get around to finishing my nurgle ogre conversion army. 50% of big fat gross lads here we come
For gaze of the Gods with the wording is it only one character gets to do it or every character with that rules get to role?
Enscorcelled - customisability - fewer
So it's looking like a 1000 point army of Chaos would have to make some hard choices about units. No way your getting more than two real armoured units in one army.
I'm still curious what models they will sell for WoC. The old ones or the new AoS ones? I mean the AoS units are exactly the same like the fantasy counterparts. Would be weird if GW sell the old ones, when they have much better sculpts for the same units in a different system
I suspect they won't market AoS models for Old World, but between the lines (base sizes) they're fine with people using them. I mean its double dipping for them with AoS and Old World base sales.
I'm basing this on the fact that GW is leaving out certain units and factions that are more prominent in AoS. There is also the fact that in one Old World article, GW chose to use the old Treeman model, rather than the Warhammer Fantasy turned AoS one that already exists.
Re-rolling 6s seems pretty nice, but wish nurgle also got like +1 toughness or something
Back in my day, the mark of Nurgle made units cause fear.
with the distinction between Chaos knights nd Chaos knights chosen, maybe GW wants to use the old knight sprue as Knights and the AOS Chaos Knights as chosen?
Chaos warriors had one attack and heavy armor in 6th. They were still usable.
Skullcrushers and Hellriders will be on Army of Infamy maybe?
I'm guessing that units like the Skullcrushers and Hellstriders (and hopefully some new Tzeentch and Nurgle counterparts like importing Doom Knights from Warhammer 3 and making Rotknights actually have daemonic mounts) are going to come in later as the timeline progresses and Asavar Kul arrives on the scene and Chaos becomes more powerful. I'm guessing that GW is probably going to use some sort of "Chaos is so weak at the moment that not even the daemonic mounts of these units can manifest in the real world for long outside of the Chaos Wastes" or something like that. I find myself oddly wanting to make a unit of Tzeentch Orges, mainly for the lulz and make them the "posh upper class Londoner" to the regular "Cockney football hooligan mixed with a Neanderthal" Ogre. They aren't "gluttons" you see, they are "Gourmands" who delight in gastronomic experiences only available to those who follow the God of Magic. Maybe give them a few extra eyes and or feathers in some places.
Hope they bring Chaos Dragons and War shrines
Wonder if any Old World stuff will now make its way into Warhammer 3?? Possibly???
I was considering making a Khornate themed army, but hearing that Skullcrushers are gone sucks. Perhaps they could be used as Knight? Even if they’d need absolutely massive bases.
What base size do Knights use?
Our favorite armored fridges. Sad we don’t see any demons outside the demon prince here. I wonder if that will change as you said with an army of infamy once they have chaos start getting some units.
Sadly, GW have said Daemons are a "legacy" army and therefore will get a free PDF at launch and never anything else.
@BittermanAndy I'd wager this suggests later monogod ranges to rep the Daemons since their balance has historically been problematic when massed together. Obviously that's years off and depends on sales, but otherwise the stated goal of new ranges seems hard to achieve.
@@spellbound1875I mean, maybe, nobody can see the future, so you could be right, but GW have literally and explicitly said "WE ARE NOT GOING TO DO ANYTHING WITH LEGACY FACTIONS EVER" so... I won't hold my breath waiting.
@@BittermanAndy At least for Daemon units throwing them into a new army book for monogods is more repurposing, which leaves the legacy faction as a legacy. This to me seems likely given the number of 6th edition monogod characters who were at the siege of Kislev, GW's tendency to move away from Daemon rosters in various products, and the need to have other factions to interact with Cathay who are confirmed to be coming eventually. Obviously it could never come to pass but for a fair number of the legacy faction models I could see them showing up in some way, shape, or form.
@@BittermanAndy I agree that it's stupid, and I really hope they change their minds. But I suspect it's because outside of Dwarfs, Chaos Warriors, Beastmen, and Greenskins (aka races that they can't narratively or lorefully exclude from the old world) GW only wants people to buy armies for the Old World that they can't use for AoS. High Elves and Wood Elves (sorry "Aelves") have mostly been squatted out of the Cities of Sigmar army last I checked, Tomb Kings and Brettonia never got an official rebirth/continuation in AoS, and the old Empire range that Cities of Sigmar was using for human units has finally been replaced.
To be fair Chosen knights will work as the themed cav unit. you easly could use skullcrushers and hellstriders
Not with a 30x60 base size sadly :(
What are Chosen Chaos Knights? We have knights in Tww3 but not Chosen. Maybe CA forgot them ?
Flaming only stops regeneration if the target has flammable, correct?
Not sure about TOW but in 8th flaming stop regen on any unit, if a unit was flammable it took double wounds
@@qwertyrobbo101 I think it is changed in TOW
I don't think so from battle report videos I've seen. @@Graccus1330
@Graccus1330 Correct, targets need to have the flammable rule to have regen stopped by flaming attacks in ToW.
Is it Ensorcelled weapons and not Enscrolled weapons?
Can khorne/tzeen/nurg/slaan marked characters join undivided units
The missing units are even more baffling since the models are still available, just via AoS. Given that WoC haven't had their main release for ToW yet, they wouldn't even have to repackage the models with both base variants.
I can sort of understand the Hellstriders and Skullcrushers, as it looks like the god specific armies will be a while before they show up properly, ideally in Arcane Journals for WoC.
The Warshrine is undivided though, so that one makes little sense to me.
I'm still hoping GW will start to make AoS models that fit ToW available for their respective factions. Almost all the Chaos models would fit right in, be it the god specific variations on Cultists, Marauders, Chaos Warriors or Chosen or the marked Gors.
Generally, I imagine WoC, will be the first faction where we see how GW will handle models that were updated for AoS but still fit into ToW. Stuff like Chaos Warriors, Chaos Knights and Chosen. The new models have their downsides, especially with missing weapon options, but they did stay true to the esthetic of the range. Having two different models for what's basically the same unit might get confusing, if GW decides to go that way.
Of course, this might also translate the other way round, with new stuff like the Warhound Handler becoming available for AoS at some point.
How do you have access TOW rules ? you have the books ?
Not covering Dwarfs first! That's a grudgin'!
No Marauder Chieftain, guess I'm playing Empire.
I’m happier to have streamlined spells with fewer options then the silly amount in 8th. That’s a lot of time saved list designing & in play time.
Wheres the Barbarian Javelineers? Hopefully they come out with the reprised models soon for WoC (and the rest), the prices don't seem too bad judging from the tomb guard tbh, yes i know they are old but you tell that to Ebay haha.
I disagree with your opinion on the undivided spell. In a game where movement is key, reducing a unit’s movement will be great. Negate some charges, pull things out of range, bait out dice.
Missing iconic units are not so iconic in my opinion ;) All of them are from 8th edition, in earlier editions there was no such stuff. Also, chosen knights were a thing in 6th edition, so it's nothing new, rather a come back to good, old times ;)
I think generally you should compare The Old World more with 6th edition of WFB than with 8th. There is much more similarities with 6th (unit strenght for example, and how combat works).
Anyway, good stuff :)
Monogod stuff was good favour imo, I'm a HUGE Slanaesh fan so I miss my Hellstriders :(. Game is good overall though and I am very happy!
"Enscrolled Weapons" PepeLaugh
quick note, flaming attacks don't innately negate regeneration, only "Flammable" units with regen will lose it, so Tomb Kings for example will be unaffected by flaming attacks
Tomb Kings _are_ flammable...
😊😊
I heard Flaming does not cancel Regen, unless the Regen model also has Flammable.
I thought Flaming prevented Regen, but only did extra damage if the target has Flammable?
@@Canuovea - could be. I of course, have not seen the rules, but I thought this came up in the first game Steve and Luka had on MWG.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 Yeah, I've not seen the rules either, but heard it mentioned in a game. Hmm. Might have been that one? It was Tomb Kings attacking a hill... I think.
@@Canuovea - Yea, that's the one. I think they said Flaming no longer cancels Regen like before, unless the Regen model also has Flammable (like Trolls).
I think a lot of us haven't seen the rules yet, but are assuming familiar things are working as they did before.
@@andrewbakescakes9684 I could have sworn that the unit being shot at didn't get their regen saves, though. Also, it would make fire attacks even more niche.
Is it enscrolled weapons, or ensorcelled weapons?
Ensorcelled.
With the step-up rules, that Slaneesh spell is going to be amazing.
Looks ok but as you say some odd missing bits and pieces - what does Magic Attacks do in the game these days?
I'm gonna have breakdowns on that when I do a video on weaponry and their benefits :)
@@TheGreatBookofGrudges Tnx :)
One DOS per DO?
I was expecting 2:1
Old chaos warriors were 10X/Box - AOS have 16x
Very disappointed that they've lost full plate / Chaos Armour, and only 1 attack each? I can't say yet whether that makes them weaker (might be cheaper to make up for it) but a big part of the character of the army has just been absolutely gutted.
Back to 6th edition stats.
There are a lot of sources/spells that outright negate armor in the game that each faction has access to. Having that ward save might be an upgrade honestly.
@@MoonyPoetWhat ward save? Chaos Warriors don't get a ward save.
Can we use the age of sigmar models?
Just swap them for the correct base size
No Mutalith Vottex Beast or Slaughterbrute Either.