ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 พ.ย. 2023
- Note: this upload is not to be taken as an endorsement of the statements contained within it, merely as a document of Herzog's thoughts on the subject. Also, try not to psychologise Herzog in the comments on the basis of this video. Many people have beat you to it + it's a silly thing to do.
The first clip is from the South Bank Show, 1982 -- full episode here: • Werner Herzog on The S...
The second clip is from a press conference at the 50th anniversary of the Thessaloniki International Film Festival in 2009.
tags:
psychology / psychoanalysis / freud / freudian / freudianism / cinema / filmmaker / legend
Here's the full documentary that the first clip is from: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gw9O2jKAPaq2MO99
More Herzog videos here: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html&si=P7Q8l4Y9FlTwutk0
Now I really want to see a Werner Herzog movie about a bunch of psychoanalysts stuck on a desert island.
Shrink 1 to Shrink 2: "When we landed on the island and the plane flew away.. how did that make you feel?" LOL I am picturing them making a makeshift "sofa" out of palm tree fronds.
Jungians v. Freudians… savage.
I can't believe he's never done it! Haha
agreed!
Call it ‘Id Game’
Every time I hear Herzog's voice I am reminded of the depressed penguin walking quite deliberately into the vast Antarctic interior and certain death.
Great clip, that. Can recommend the film it's from, "Encounters at the End of the World".
If there's any one clip that's quintessential Herzog to my mind, though, it's this: th-cam.com/video/dvbxh2rLcdo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KFcpP8BriWLPm8TO
Thanks@@Vingul😁
me too :)
I think about chickens
@@robertwarner-ev7wp that reminds me of Ed, Edd, & Eddy lol.
"Your own self realisation is the greatest service you can render the world." - George Bernard Shaw
Ooh, thanks. That's a good one to remember.
I thought it was by Ramana Maharshi?
@@aksumit4217so did Ramana
No, submittance and obedience to Christ is the ticket to Heaven.
For $250 an hour
I am a psychoanalyst and I do believe its rise is indicative of a broken society. I constantly question its efficacy and sociological ascent. There are a lot of therapists out there and a lot of them are very disturbed. However, like politicians, there are a few good one's too. And yes, I am a big fan of Werner Herzog's work.
👍
it's efficacy is negative -- the labyrinth of faeces, genitalia, mouths, nipples you constructed is something you will never escape. The only reliably curative effect psychoanalysis has is in regards to your bank account.
You're no therapist - an educated person would know where an apostrophe belongs and where it doesn't. "good one's?" Give me a break 😂😂
In what ways would you say your fellow therapists are disturbed in general? Curious.
🤓@@Mrpublicimagelimited
You don't want to illuminate your whole house but it's not a bad idea to turn the lights on every now and then in case you're constantly tripping over the crap you've left scattered about.
Well said.
Turning the light on, possibly; using maps made in the dark, maybe not so much.
Brilliant
I think his point (which I agree at least metaphorically) is; Leave something that you constantly trip over. Realize that you just can't figure out how to handle THAT crap. It's annoying. It hurts! In a meanwhile figure out how to fall. Eventually laugh at it and enjoy the fall. Perhaps turn the fall into a dance move at times. Now you got yourself a dance partner, made out of crap and dark. Well you got the point.
Can you sleep peacefully on your bed with lights on?
That psychoanalysts on a plane to a stranded island line sounds like an interesting movie idea, he should have done a ‘Lord Of The Flies’, but with psychoanalysts.
Call it ‘Lord Of The Minds’ or smth like that.
How about "Flies Of The Mind"?
@@rasmuslernevall6938 Now you’re cooking.
Flies Of Mommy's Milkies
😂 Ahahaha great
We could make an epic, high fantasy variant and call it _"The Lord of the Doctorates"_
Something his analogy is missing is the questioning of whether what is being "illuminated" is actually there. Probably the main problem with psychology and psychoanalysis is that they reveal at least as many falsehoods as facts. So it's not so similar to illuminating a house, but rather projecting images on the wall of a darkened house and expecting those images to match what is there when you turn the lights on.
He implicitly questions that in the first clip, to be fair.
Like any science it is iterative and constantly evolving.
reminder that the replication crisis, while a big deal in every field, is especially bad in social sciences like psychology. Some studies have found upwards of 75% of all psychology studies fail to replicate. This is most often caused by what scientists term "Questionable Research Practices" as well as other problems like p-hacking. There is a 75% chance any psychology study you read is total bull, according to the experts.
@@VossstPsychoanalysis is not a science, had been debunked a long time ago and modern psychology no longer treats Freud seriously but only as a historical curiosity, a part of the “growing pains” of the natural evolution of a completely new field.
Yeah a great point. " Illuminating corners of our soul" is very different from "thinking that we are illuminating corners of our soul". Most of psychology findings (>96%) can not even be replicated. Psychology is just gaslighting.
I work with a therapist who specialises in psychoanalysis. It has helped me immensely in healing unhelpful neurotic traits. Having illumination on semi-subconscious mental patterns, dark corners of the soul is essential to process trauma and correct beliefs from formative years in early life. What people get wrong about this is that, this is not a fix, there is no fix. These things are not meant to be fixed, they're meant to be processed, understood, reframed into a new narrative and developing peace and acceptance towards it. Maturity comes from an evolution of our thinking and that could come from psychoanalitic conversations too, and so it could come from many other types of conversation, but the dialogue with ourselves and another person is the key.
Thanks for this qualified comment.
Beautifully written
How can thought reshape thought? Its like telling someone with a broken leg go walk on it until it gets better. You cant analyse your way out of yourself.
@@ExecutionerHopkinsundivided attention 😂
yep all of those things are achievable by oneself. getting a psychiatrist is just extending childhood with a parent figure who knows what's up. nothing wrong with that. IMO you gotta change yourself without external help at some point. or not
Psychology and psychoanalysis are very different things.
thank you!
What an absurd lie. Absolutely dystopian and cartoonish dishonesty
@@DarranKern To whom/what was that addressed?
Psych is a delusional term, It really means "lets pretend the rest of the brain does not exist and lets worship the left PFC only"
Thanks, this comment made me look up "Psychoanalysis" and I learnt a few new things.
Initially, I thought he was trying to undermine all psychiatrists or specialists and ridiculing self improvement, self reflection and integrity.
the point of psychology is not to illuminate every dark corner of the house. It's about living in the house with some degree of freedom and comfort and not to be stuck in the same room. it's not really kind, if you are already living comfortably in your house, to scoff at people trying to live comfortably in theirs.
yet, common behavior is being pathologizedd and there's a strong movemente to push *everyone* into therapy
@@ghfudrs93uuu That is utterly wrong. There is no movement that pushes people into therapy it is quite the opposite: psychiatrists and therapists are overwhelmed with patients/clients.
And to your second point: Which "common behaviors" exactly are pathologized?
@@florianmedulla
Psychologists are much more interested in middling with healthy patients than people who actually need psychological help. That's where the "everyone should go to therapy" bs comes from. And, that's what they mostly get. When they face someone with an actual pathology they are quick to refer them to someone else.
You should read the last APA report about traditional masculinity
@@ghfudrs93uuuyou are talking about other types of therapy.
You are right. But... 😅 ... the statistic shows that more than 50 percent of the treatments are a failure. I think we have to admit that psychology and therapy in the end are also just a tool of power. Sorry for my english, btw.
His analogy seems to imply Psychoanalysis is an attempt to cleanse/remove the darkness of the house/human psyche, but, as far as I know, the aim isn't to abolish the darkness, but to understand and ultimately integrate it into your psyche/house.
This understanding helps prevent you from being blind sided by an aspect of your personality you're unfamiliar with.
Seems like you're talking about Jung's integration of the shadow instead of psychoanalysis.
@@canti7951I don’t know, it sounds consonant with Lacan, learning to live *with* the symptom rather than futilely fighting against by denying/repressing it.
@@canti7951 Apart from Freud, Jung is the most influential and important figure of psychoanalysis. Jung's theories and the science of psychoanalysis are anything but mutually exclusive, Jungian thought is literally a school of psychoanalysis.
That's not what psychoanalysts actually do, though.
@@BookofCommonTerror But I wouldn't say they're the same thing, no? The word symptom has a sociological and even political significance that the word shadow doesn't really have. The "solution" might be similar but I don't think they work the same. Overall though, despite Jung's influence, would you really call Jung a psychoanalyst? I don't think he is.
I started noticing people talking about therapy the same way people would talk about finding Jesus. Recommending it to everyone, etc. Not even saying it's a bad thing, just an observation.
Funny enough, Jesus is the only way out. Everything else, including psychoanalysis, is a blind alley where things go to rot and die. There is no life outside of Christ. ☦️
Cult
@spikestoyou I would say philosophy is. That could lead to a question of whether Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc are fundamentally true or worth following and the answer could be a liberating factor. I am a Muslim but if I had time to talk to a person about religion I would start with setting some philosophical groundwork first.
@@spikestoyou Save the sermon for the AA meeting, brother
@@mohamamdyahyaasadahmad3165 Philosophy can be a tool used to discern what is true and good but it makes no real claims as to what IS actually true and good. You don’t sound so sure that Islam beats out Hinduism, etc. I guess philosophy hasn’t been as useful as you thought? Or is this just your kneejerk reaction to hearing Christ’s name? Funny how basically all religions are valid or on the table the second someone brings up Christ, and yet Christianity is never given that same treatment. Almost like if it were true, people might actually have to confront something about themselves.
i love WH and as a psychoanalytic therapist i find his POV as always very interesting. while it seems to me that people can benefit from analysis it's also crucial to treat the individual with great respect and some analysts are far too confident about their own capacities for insight. however i'm not sure that WH has understood that people go to analysts for help because they are suffering, not merely to illuminate corners of their psyche, and illumination is only required in as far as it might help to relieve that suffering and make the houses of their psyches more, not less inhabitable. i imagine that WH may have always found his own psychic house a pretty good place to be, sadly not the case for everybody. but in terms of his work, yes, it is absolutely vital that there are psychology-free spaces and he has provided us with many wonderful examples of these. WH, we love you even if you hate us :)
What a great comment. I agree completely.
What do you think about the idea that some significant part of the time, psychoanalysts think a subtle and not-easily-detectable physical illness which causes pain and/or leads to lots of inflammation (the cytokines can directly affect neurons like neurotransmitters) is actually some issue based on trauma or bad thought patterns or that the solution is psychoactive pills?
That's actually something that I've just gone through this last year: I had mold in my room and also have a strong dust mite allergy, went a year without removing the mold and only now (after over 10+ years really) finally got anti-allergy bedsheets and such, and over the last year my mental health was often so bad that people thought I must be on drugs or something, but turned out it was just a ridiculous amount of chronic inflammation in the lungs (the dust mite allergy made it easier for the mold to grow in my lungs) which led to tons of cytokines and large-scale but low-level pain in the large organ that is the lungs. Have now finally dealt with both the mold and the dust mite in my bed, and now over the last month it finally got way, way better, and now all the sudden I'm actually feeling comfortable for the first time in years and all those people who thought I was "weeeeeird" and "awkwaaaard" and everything over the last year actually came around to liking me quite a bit now
Well he's a filmmaker so I think his answer is mostly preoccupied with filmmaking where psychology and psychoanalysis made a storm on human soul so to speak. You'd be hard pressed to find a western movie in 21st century that isn't referencing Freud, Jung or at least some psychological concept that the author thought was novel enough to spice up his story. A lot of movies explicitly feature wise all knowing psychologists too. And if you happen to stumble on a movie that defies this the critics will still try to to map to psychoanalyst concepts, calling it bad failing at the task. for somebody like Herzog this must be frustrating to the highest degree.
This is a marvellous response. Fully agree.
WH is however right to question the benefit of casting a microscope on things like anxiety and or personal vice (things that anger us), which inflames and actually makes the anxiety and anger worse…I found this from experience.
Also there is rarely a diagnose treat protocol, like in conventional therapy … a psychologist usually waits for a fallible person to diagnose themselves and this might take years or never happen. I think that is unethical. Imagine medical doctors worked this way? There would be an uproar.
If you talk with 10 psychoanalysts they will tell you 10 different things.
There are a few psychiatric concepts that work well and you can read about them online. The profession doesn't need to exist.
Indeed. Its a science of professional guessing.
It’s like astrology
@@arsonfly Lol psychiatry also also requires diagnoses and experimentation.
@@wiard If your going to build something that is the most powerful machine yet, don't you think that you would cover all angles and that the machine is balanced out to ensure that nothing unbalances its chance of survival , Your cortex is pre determined in how it views reality and someone else's cortex is grown to be the exact opposite of you
She that grew you has an internal clock, which is determined by the moon . so she that grew you knows what time of year it is
One has to ask: what is the story behind that conviction?
He foresaw dr jordan peterson
Perhaps Foucault
Narcissism.
Very psychoanalytical question
@@Wizzy678Jordan Peterson is a cognitivist, not a psychoanalyst.
It does not matter how one confronts their own delusions, fear, and chaos (psychoanalysis, etc)...
That they choose to do so - regardless of the form they take - is the most important point...
Psychoanalysis is one way to confront and challenge these things...
It is not wise to discredit a process whereby these things can be dealt with...
The man who made me truly fall in love with cinema. A master of indipendent thinking and working.
For me Tarantino and Scorsese made me fall in love with cinema as a young teen. But it was Herzog who made me fall in love with documentary filmmaking.
Idiotic and ignorant thinking i would say
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 it seems that most people know him for his documentaries, but I first discovered his work through his feature films from the 70s and early 80s. Lots of good ones: Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre, Nosferatu, Herz aus Glas, Kaspar Hauser... recommended, in case you've yet to see them.
@@Vingul oh yeah, I'm pretty familiar with Herzog's fiction resume as well (although of the ones you mention I haven't seen Herz aus Glas, I'll have to check that out). But although I've always enjoyed his movies, it was his documentaries that really impacted me. Specifically Grizzly Man, the moment where he chooses to film himself listening to the attack rather than the audio of the attack itself- watching that was the first time I realised a documentary could tell an emotional story just as artistically and deeply as a movie, it didn't just have to be a Discovery Channel-style reeling off of events and facts. And I've been fascinated with the ability of documentaries to tell the emotional truth beyond the bare facts ever since.
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 Late response here, but yeah, Herz aus Glas is one I’ve sometimes thought of as my very favourite Herzog film - even if not his «best».
Good point re: Grizzly Man.
To your point about documentaries, the film that most achieves that to my mind, along with some of Herzog’s and Les Blank’s films, is «Harlan County, USA» by Barbara Kopple. No narration, just following a coalmining society in Kentucky as they go on strike in the early 1970s. Very powerful. Perhaps you know it. (P.S. I’ve posted some clips from it, including the intro, in case you’d like a preview. Made a playlist with those that should be pretty easily discoverable).
I've always felt the same way, despite my father being a psychiatrist. 150 years from now people will look back at this practice and feel the same way we now feel about bloodletting and miasma theory. If therapy 'works', it is because people appreciate being heard, feeling understood, and the placebo effect. But it usually doesn't work at all, or it leads to people becoming convinced their innocent parents or spouse are the source of all their troubles
Interesting analogy at the end about the undesirability of living in a fully illuminated house. It does appear that darkness and shadow are just as important in sculpting one’s interior space. Thanks for posting.
Indeed! Cheers.
@@Vingul Fascinating channel you have here.
Think I'll wander around a bit.
Congratulations on the traffic and Elon nod 🚀
It's not that interesting, it assumes that the light psychoanalysts shine on the dark corners of the mind reveals any truth. I think it only reveals their own stupidity and magical thinking, so I'm surprised he even used this metaphor
@@naturegazer6749 Thank you, welcome!
Send some on Mars...
this was 1982. i think it has become much better, backed up with more sience and studies. Psychotherapy helped me a lot.
No. The first psychologist I met did a esoteric social experiment on me without permission. Just no. All these parasites be gone diagnosing ghostly made up diseases.
Yeah follow the science 😅
Favorite line from THE DEPARTED: "they say the Irish are immune to psychoanalysis"
K, I really did find my keys this time. What now?
I'm Irish and I confirm what Herzog is saying: psychology and psychoanalysis is a load of aul shite. Literally. Its all about sniffing the shite that comes out of our arses. In Ireland, we know that a big shite is just a natural effect of 4 or 5 pints of Guinness. If you want them analysed, take your turds to a hospital laboratory.
I had a wonderful pschoannalyst that started my journey to healing my brain from severe damage. But he did not make me think anything except to question everything. Thank you sir from UNCG Student phyciatric support for students. I am sorry but i forget his name. He knows who he is if still alive.
I think a true therapist/analyst will work as hard as they can to make sure you don't NEED to keep seeing them!
It's sad that many people will dismiss psychoanalysis on the basis of Herzog's statements. In these videos Herzog builds a straw man out of psychoanalysis and then proceeds to burn it to the ground. In my opinion, he's a colossal twat.
Nailed it. Therapy became theologized
Psychoanalysts are the priesthood of the secular state.
And theology became therapized.
@@chicklets4ever51 modern priests to confess social sins
@@noglobo Except that there's never any penance. It's all self-justification.
Most psychologists or counsellors ive known have the most messed up personal lives
Maybe you mean most people.
@@Omnicient.
I meant what I said
AND their kids are messed up, too.
A friend of mine studied psychology, and said that most psychology students were psychologically messed up themselves and were studying psychology to understand their own issues / to get a grasp on their own psychology.
@@lightworker2956 agreed
Remember, at the time he's initially speaking, Freudian psychoanalysis was the order of the day. It could be pretty harmful, actually.
there is a documentary about it and its aftermath called the century of the self. it outlines the relation between statecraft, advertising and media, and psychoanalysis (basically, its a psyop). it harmed noone more than freuds own family, incidentally.
The good thing about psychoanalysis is that it's for the people that find ir interesting. If you don't you can just ignore it. I find it fascinating and it helps me think about things in a much more interesting way than the other schools of thought today that wish to just reduce human beings to dopamine or animal behaviouralism.
I could not agree more with Werner's opinion
To stay on the illuminated house metaphor: your unconscious will always revert back to the chaotic darkness. But for people who have a non functional house you have to illuminate briefly where the house is breaking down, fix it, then leave it to the darkness again
Exactly. Like that the fuck is actually his argument? We should not try to understand our minds and subconsciousness?
Of course you can go too far and end up OVERanalyzing everything, at which point you are just seeing through everything without actually experiencing what you arw looking at.
@@mrajsma01 thr man's point, as stated in the first moments of the vid, are that the psychoanalysts are not only woefully under qualified in this field (the field itself isnt developed enough) but they are incredibly arrogant about their position. He explains, in his view, that they are akin to brain surgeons from ancient egypt. They arent anywhere near the expertise they consider themselves to be at.
@colekter5940 Sorry for the late reply, but I guess how is Herzog certified to speak in the subject himself?
@@Motivational_Posters you dont realize this, but you're attempting a logical fallacy for thia argument by attacking his character (credentials) rather than the topic at hand. How are you, myself, or anyone else "qualified" to ponder and express opinions on anything at all? Clearly, he isnt in a position of authority, whereas he may have influenced policy or otherwise affected lives. But merely having an opinion, however strong, isnt grounds for disregarding or quieting someone. In fact, outsider opinions are important for discourse.
@@colekter5940 You're attempting to deduce a lot from my question. You could have gone with the initial point that he has a right to express his thoughts on a matter, and I don't have to necessarily agree. I simply asked what qualifies him to speak on the matter. Also, there is relevant data and known factors about the world and the human brain and body that could contribute to one's overall opinion. You are committing a fallacy yourself by reducing my question to the idea that I am "attacking" his credentials (Which he literally does himself in the video.)
Best case scenario: you're down 50 minutes, $120 and mad at your mother.
😅 Yep and they always end it with leaving you a gaping wound.
Okay times up,go home.
@@naturegazer6749 Speaking from experience are you? There is more than just one psychoanalytical school you know, many of them have nothing to do with Freudian psychosexual drivel, nor familial trauma.
Perfect comment lol
@@transitionshotline Yes but many disagreed with Freud on a variety of issues. Look into it if you don't believe me, it's well documented.
I would have gone oxford comma on that one
Psychotherapy has always been an intrinsic part of every authentic religious tradition. The problem with modern psychology is that it focuses on our darkest parts and cuts off any connection to what is above us. It horizontalizes the human psyche, when the vertical dimension is in fact essential for true psychological health.
I suppose that depends on how you define psychotherapy; I assume you're using it in a much broader sense. But that's well said. Of course Herzog is not afraid of delving into the spirit, of bringing forth a very human sense of vision and purpose, our relation to the ecstatic and the sublime -- through art -- but he doesn't "analyse". If there is "therapy" in art and storytelling, it is of an automatic, intrinsic, largely unthinking sort.
That's ramblingly formulated but I think you'll get my point.
@@Vingul I definitely use the term in a broad sense and completely agree with you that modern psychology analyzes too much and does too little. And even when it focuses on doing, it usually has no place for the divine or spiritual domain.
Well put
SO true!
Could you use words that actually mean something specific in stead of this vertical/horizontal bullshit? You're exemplifying what he doesn't like about them probably.
I hate the way other people are armchair psychologists saying this person has trauma,that person is a narcissist etc.
Why you hate that, and not hate that a person who is an expert in cinema but NOT in psychology (so the very definition of an armchair psychologist) blames an entire category of professionals as a disease.
@Jhost90 Because it is quackery. It is like a modern religion everyone has blind faith in.
@@overman2306 you do know there are thousands of professionals and scientists questioning their theories every minute, right?
@@Jhost90 That's another thing that I don't like, i.e. just believing something because a scientist said it.
@@overman2306 Again, no one "believes", people look, follow and test facts every minute.
You're the only one acting like a pursued fanatic here.
I agree 1000%
I lost a beautiful wife to this disease 😅 she watched it on youtube all day, then retold it to me when i got home back from work… it all accumulated to the point i went to work to rest from her…
Where is the full interview?
Tom Cruise was basically called a madman for saying the same thing on Oprah 20 years ago
Yeah well he also thinks disease is caused by people being inhabited by "body thetans" sent here from a galactic overlord named Xenu who lived 75 million years ago so he's not exactly my go-to expert on whether something is legit or not.
Suspicion of psychology is the only redeeming feature of Scientology, and the only reason they attack psychology is because THEY want to be doing the mind control.
That’s why Herzog was in Jack Reacher
I’d trust a psychologist over a Scientologist lol
@@kentkrempley6076 I would trust no one
The last few lines of this clip clarify the whole meaning.
It's not so much that the field of psychology or the practice of psychoanalysis are inadequate in their ability to reveal truth, it's that humans require some amount of mystery and ambiguity to function at all.
This is clearly debatable, but seems pretty obvious to me. I don't think anyone actually wants to know the full picture. Which probably isn't on the menu anyway.
Psychoanalysis does not necessarily equate therapy. Psychoanalysis is just a form of therapy, and agreed with some of Herzog’s points. I like giving clients more of space to forge their path while learning things about the brain, behaviors, etc.
i could not agree more. struggling as i do with mental health problems (itself a gaslighting term), i have dealt extensively with the psychiatric community. most of them have no talent for it. to begin with, they have never experienced anything even close to the conditions they claim to know about. everything they know is learnt (often lazily) from books. secondly, their whole purpose is to help the afflicted to regain fitness to enter the workforce. this means that they are virtually incapable of acknowledging that modern existence might have something to do with all the sufffering. thirdly, they have a child's understanding of the nature of trauma. i'll prove it to you: "abuse of any kind will not be tollerrated". this is the standard line for all NHS mental health organisations. anyone who knows anything at all about trauma understands only too well that fear creates anger and violence. think of an animal backed into a corner and fighting for its life. this is the perpetual state of someone who is traumatised. they either lash out, or they completely give up hope. they may also fawn or freeze, but for the purposes of this argument let's focus on the violence. by failing to recognise anger and violence as a consequence of trauma, the psychiatric community essentially blames the sufferer for their own condition. i have seen this in a number of friends. they end up being diagnosed with conditions that make the anger the focus of attention. it means their trauma goes not only unrecognised, but untreated. needless to say, total idiocy. the only psychiatrists worth a tuppeny fuck are the ones who decry their own industry.
The man in the rocket said I should come 🤷🏼♂️
haha virgin loser thing to say
I've talked to 4 different psychologists and one online program dealing with behavior mostly dealing with depression. The therapists were largely just someone to talk to with few if any insights or suggestions. The online program dealing with biofeedback, meditation, and behavior was better, but still so so. Reading on my issues and staying busy were far more effective. Therapy is a never ending circle jerk for not all perhaps, but many or most.
Ayyee, you're monetized bro?
Wel, i may just have to watch ALL your Content now , could be enough for a coffee XD
Thanks again and again, for all of it !
Haha, well thanks very much, but I haven’t monetised it, though I could. I think they might just place more ads on my stuff if I do.. and I can’t stand ads, meself. Guess I’ll just go to work to get money 🤣 thank you for the support man! Appreciate it.
@@Vingul im not watching the Ads then lmao!
I will make an effort to watch more though, It's a nice change (your Content) from my regular Blk-pill routine aha \0 Appreciate YOU Brother.
@@cammo777 Cheers, I do try to make this channel a counterweight to that, though both are needed (not to actually be blackpilled but you know - I indulge as well).
You’re one of the guys who has been around the longest so it’s good to see you drop by from time to time. Not that everyone who’s around necessarily leave comments all the time (appreciated regardless).
o7 brother
@@Vingul lol I really should be out doing acktivism instead of getting fried by 60Ghz mm mw frqncies in my house but bah, lets watch videos, and streams, more videos it is a bit sad tbh ahaa.
but i am enjoying The BEst of The best so there;s that o7 Chat soon Brother TC !
What a man. What a talent
My #1 fave
He's an overrated hack who is completely off base with this one. But each to their own.
@@simonostermann5284Psychology as a whole isn’t science, so I’m not too sure what he was off base about. Psychologists want to call it a “replication crisis”, but in all reality it’s just that none of them can recreate any of their results.
Meaning that last part of the scientific method, where the hypothesis is proven true, is skipped by these “scientists”. It truly is like brain surgeons in Ancient Egypt, they hardly understand what they’re trying to fix.
THIS MESSAGE BROUGHT TO YOU BY BETTERHELP!
Man is the most thoroughly studied species on the planet, not for the benefit of all mankind but for personal gain of a select few.
Me after my therapist diagnosed me with 10 disorders :
😂😂
I agree with what Tony Sopranos mother said about psychiatrists
th-cam.com/video/EULynGtVskU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3I7WWc3vMF24ZRgK
that was a fictional character who was written to be cartoonishly mean. hope this helps
@@BBBJOT I haven't seen The Sopranos, but screenwriters often put true statements in the mouths of horrible characters precisely in order to ridicule those true statements.
@@Vingul Awh man you have to watch a few Sopranos clips. Hysterical.
Watch the one with Tony's daughters b!ack boyfriend.
@@WakaWaka2468 I've seen quite a few clips but only seen the first two episodes in full (had them on VHS lol). Been meaning to check it out properly forever though. Thanks for the reminder.
Everynow and then I see those obscure artists and their takes on society and their alienation from its dogma, I feel these are the only ones that could really say it as it is!
The Bear Man is one of the most poetic and brilliant documentaries about the human soul. There, Herzog acutely analyzes the protagonist's motivations, from a perspective that is very close to psychoanalysis.
This reads like parody, when you get the name of the movie weong out the gate.
All the "experts" have made things sooo much better
The problem he describes reaches far deeper than only Psychoanalysis. His critique should aim at the whole "Enlightenment" project , of which Psychoanalysis - at least in its more Freudian branch - is but a more recent branch. He is tapping into one of the core issues of the "Modern Era" itself. His metaphor of the uninhabitable house in this perspective is merely more than the Romantics critique of the Enlightenment Movement and therefore comes with both, the plausibility and truth as well as the pitfalls already worked out in that discourse.
If you hate the modern era so much there are still places that have rejected the enlightenment. Of course you'd have to convert to their religion and live under the whims of a monarch or supreme leader. Something you probably don't want to do because you romanticize a past you were not alive to experience.
His analogy with the "uninhabitable house" is absurd in the context he gave though. What _he_ is saying with that analogy, is that he'd rather live in filth and disease, as long as he can be dissonant and ignorant. _That_ is the rational reality of it, regardless of whether you'd agree with his other points or not.
@@SebHaarfagre I don't think so. There is a difference between a home to live in (a place that can be comfortable and uplifting precisely because it allows for some idionsyncrasies and messiness) and a filthy, disordered place of anxiety.
In my interpretation he is not advocating for the latter, but rather against the other extreme: which is a place that is perfectly ordered and perfectly clean, but in all its cleanness and orderliness becomes hostile to the messy realities of life.
Not just Psychoanalysis , I am suspicious of Therapists as well.
I am a therapist
@@YarrBr0 You are a suspect
@YarrBr0 What a weird and empty response. It's almost as if you've read the comment and thought "hey, I'm a therapist" and accidentally typed your thought in in the comment section.
and doctors, and lawyers, and teachers
Thank goodness that these methods are being criticised.They are useless ! And a lot of therapists do more harm than anything good!! Including psychologists.
I would have expected a more compelling exposition when debunking Psychoanalysis.
1. Exposing and explaining every dark little corner in our sole is unhealthy and dangerous?
2. Attempting to expose and explain every dark little corner in our sole, but getting it wrong is unhealthy and dangerous?
3. Exposing and explaining the most pertinent relevant and impactful dark little corners in our sole, is unhealthy and dangerous?
4. Attempting to expose and explain the most pertinent relevant and impactful dark little corners in our sole, but getting it wrong is unhealthy and dangerous?
5. Some any or all of the above without a scientifically supported roadmap for where to go with it is unhealthy and dangerous?
Or, more generally: Anything conceived to be potentially stupid, unhealthy or dangerous is to be avoided?
Carl Jung sees it completely opposite. I personally agree with Carl Jung.
Yet Jung disagreed with Freud, and most of the field as we know it is derived from Freud's theories. I take Jung seriously -- Freud I have little regard for.
@@Vingulit’s a discipline building upon itself. It doesn’t matter who started it, but it matters who improved it
@@teodor6835 I don’t really know the field well enough to have very strong opinions either way, but one could make analogies to shaky foundations etc etc.
Sometimes you just have to tear the whole thing down and start anew.
What is the context? What was the interview all about?
Hey man, I saw your previous comment and been meaning to reply -- I'm uploading the full documentary right now, will give you the link in about 45 minutes.
@@Vingul Thanks so much 🙏💪
@@Jonathan-ru9zl you're welcome -- it's just up now, there isn't really much more of that precise interview, but here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UDH_EdNd2Snme4pf
"...what upsets us about other people, reveals more about aspects of ourselves" (Carl Jung)...
The work of W.Herzog entertained me, the work of C.G.Jung enlightened me.
So...whatever, Mr. Herzog!
All you got from Herzog’s work was entertainment? That’s a bit sad.
I like both of their work. I’ll remind you that Jung isn’t exactly mainstream, certainly he wasn’t in the early 1980s. How big is the chance that a random psychoanalyst is an acolyte of Jung? Very slim. I know Herzog paints with a broad brush here, but Jung disagreed with Freud as well, and most of psychoanalysis is Freudian.
@@Vingul no need for sadness, it`s totally fine not to be impacted by Herzog`s Oevre that much ;)
@@thomasklein8559 it does make me wonder if you’ve seen very much of his stuff. I guess you will grant the rest of what I said :)
@@Vingul granted;)
Seen some of his movies and documentaries, not nearly all of it.!
@@thomasklein8559 Cool cool! I think some of his films get as near to the sublime and what he calls "ecstatic truth" as film gets.. Tarkovsky is the only one I'd place alongside him, although he's very different.
Thank you
Herzog is the most germanic man since Arminius.
I was thinking this would be some rationalistic twaddle, but I find it wiser than I anticipated. I think this sentiment may genuinely help me.
Good to hear, as you can guess from that second clip his films are rather based on impulses that aren't easily categorisable than they are rationalistic. Like "Herz aus Glas", a beautiful film in my opinion. Or "Lessons of Darkness", which reimagines the oil well fires in Kuwait in 1991 through a sort of strange sci-fi lens, hah -- elevating it to much more than a news story, to put it mildly. I shouldn't assume that you are totally new to Herzog, of course. But here are some other clips of him/his films that I've uploaded in case you're interested: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html
@@Vingul Oh, very nice. I've been only vaguely familiar with his work for the longest time, but I've recently developed an interest in him. Thank you for the recommendations!
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Cool! Hope you'll enjoy some of his work if you check it out. Those two I mentioned are relatively "obscure" btw.. you've probably heard of some of the more well known films like Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre or Nosferatu (not to mention his many documentaries). Might be just as well to start with one of those.
@@Vingul It does seem intriguing. I recall my father has a DVD copy of Fitzcarraldo (or at least used to), I'll ask him for it.
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Sweet.
“The best political, social, and spiritual work we can do is to withdraw the projection of our shadow onto others.”
― Carl Gustav Jung.
(Yip, I can see some conflict here, some strong defence functions expressed here).
For someone who appears ro ahve explored deep and profound human states and conditions through his art, its understandable that he thinks analysts and such are a disease... As an artist and having spent years in therapy and explored group psychodynamics, based in the work of Freud, Klein, Bion and Jacques, I completely empathize with him. Yet, I do know both sides - artists get there much quicker and more intuitively than the analysts will ever get there. They promise... Ans art and artist is the promise. Hence the analysis as a disease
The analyst helps to sit with the disease, and the artist helps to make besutiful art that one can accept, live with, face every day and learn to be, with it.
Based
Isn't it a zen principle to shine light on the dark continent within us? Love his work but I disagree. Interesting perspective though I guess
4yrs of psychoanalysis has shed light on many dark areas, other areas were lightened later for me. However it has also shown that my family and many friends were somewhat toxic. I’ve even become more solitary and detached as relationships don’t feed or support an unfortunate need for companionship.😢
People are profoundly flawed and disappointing. I’ve learned over my life to love myself and not depend on anybody for all my happiness.
Over the years I’ve had to cut toxic people from my life including friends and a family member.
I recently had to terminate all communications with a friend who made demands on me and attacked me randomly for no reason because he became angry at the world going through a divorce.
He actually demanded that I cut myself from a mutual kind generous friend because he didn’t like him and said I couldn’t be his friend if I hung out with him.
He also attacked his siblings and people who were kind to him. He became a complete jerk and was proud of it (he said he became somebody he really was without any insight)
Reminder that Wener was born in the 1940s. The psychology of his early adulthood largely consisted of a series of theories that are now largely included in an intro to psych class purely for historical interest and not because they're taken seriously anymore.
The now soft science of psychology was arguably straight-up pseudo science when he was forming these opinions.
Psychos analysis
Thank you for saying the simple truth
The assertion, that "Psychonanalysis tries to illuminate every corner of the house" is very misleading, and in fact omitting one of the greatest insights of psychonanalysis: That the house has corners, that can never be illuminated and these corners will affect you, even if you are not aware of it. To be more concrete: The unconscious will be there, whether you try to illuminate it or not. Or as Freud put it: "The ego is not master in its own house." And I for one think, it's far more helpful to at least try to figure out what has an effect on my behavior, than ignoring these forces.
I like Herzog.
I find it quite shocking that a man as old and experienced as him just dismisses an entire field of theory and study which has been a foundation and immensely helpful for almost all mental health and trauma healing treatments we have available today. He acts like psychologists are predators who prey on clueless victims, but to many people they are the light at the end of the tunnel which directs them towards a new and healthy way of life.
In a time where there are so many distractions and people barely find time to reflect on themselves, advocating against self-illumination seems the more dangerous thing to do. Maybe he's just scared to face his own demons.
I think the way he sees psychology seems more like a generalization of his own experience with psychology and psychoanalysis.
There is a certain sector of critics who seem too eager to apply concepts of psychology and psychoanalysis to the works of artists, in order to "get" then. As an amateur artist myself, i find it quite annoying, and Herzog probably finds then annoying, too.
The annoyiance comes from the fact that, even if they are wrong or right about your work, their interpretation might influence the way the audience sees you and your work for eternity. All that you do, no matter how sublime, will be limited to the same cheap concepts of "sysiphus complex", "sublimation", "animus", no matter if they are true or not.
All that being said: Yeah, he is very wrong. Psychology is a very useful tool for general wellbeing, and we would lost a lot without it.
I am sure they have not seriously read classic psychoanalytic bibliography. Also, there are a lot of anti heroes that have no counter proposals. The typical person resists to the teeth at a certain point in the psychoanalytic cure, and this is where people stop sometimes their analysis. You have to live the experience to believe it, empirically see the results on your way of being and the come the behaviours that were before impasses and full of anxiety. I salute you from México.
As a Psychologist, I agree 100%
There is a movie called "12 monkeys" wherein a time traveler gets institutionalized by psychiatrists. One of the Drs therein admits that they are the equivalent of a new priest class.
Interesting. I've seen that film, but quite a few years ago now. Had it on VHS.
@@Vingul it's worth watching again. It hits different nowadays
@@violenceislife1987 I can imagine! I’ve heard/seen it referenced a few times in interesting contexts, like your comment.
He contradicts himself. Argument one against psychoanalysis is that it's ignorant and overestimates its abilities. Argument two is that it's abilities are too potent and threaten to make the human soul uninhabitable through over-illumnation. These are mutually contradictory arguments.
He's implying it's a false illumination, rather than a 'light of reason'.
@@tonycairns6728Then the analogy doesn't make much sense
@@erikottema2620 If he was implying it was a TRUE illumination - then the analogy might not make sense. He obviously has a healthy contempt for psychoanalysis, however.
@@tonycairns6728 Can you explain what his point is? I'm genuinely curious. There are obvious flaws to Freudian psychology, but I don't see how they apply to the analogy
@@erikottema2620 He's already explained perfectly clearly in the clip.
I love the metaphor about the house. I might steal that
"I swear, gentlemen, that to be too conscious is an illness"
The Underground man, Notes from the Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Nice one. Keen to read it, a friend kindly gave me an edition but it's in Norwegian and I'd prefer an English translation. Some day, perhaps.
@@Vingul I have the one from Signet Classics, 2004 version. Penguin Books also published it. They are still available. You can also read it online at the OpenLibrary or Gutenberg.
Wir schicken sie alle nach Madagaskar! ;)
🤣 that innate German urge..
lol
Despite the fantastic utility of such a plan for the rest of mankind, I always think “what have the poor Madagascarians done to deserve this?”
@@didymussumydid9726 There's always Antarctica.
@@ephemeralsolidity1004 to be sure... but Queen Maud Land is no go.
Anyone asking themselves how Elon ended up watching this video?
He has NPD and does't want to go to therapy, so now therapy is the enemy not his own issues.
AI
Yes. Why did he look at him? Or was it time to go to psychiatrists?
He watched the news in Moscow and said WTF. Probably he misunderstood Biden's condition as a result of analysis given therapists can be seriously biased and unprofessional especially lately in the US. Insanity is ruling unfortunately and it's not because of bad professionals worldwide. Probably the United States are suffering badly.
@@jamessderbyI would say he’s doing fine judging by his accomplishments. Not sure what a psychologist would exactly have to offer him. Werner Herzog nailed it a long time ago.
Therapist told me I'm bothered, crying for help.
The rapist told me don't bother crying for help.
That joke just doesn't land. You'll find one that does.
@@30yearsoldiam1
Thanks Sgt.Obvious.
"My name is Giovanni Giorgio, but most people just call me Giorgio."
I've never understood Herzog's abject rejection of psychoanalysis, except to read as a symptom of his own ongoing analysis. It's like a painter deciding to arbitrarily negate the color yellow from his/her palette. You might not like yellow, but if you mix it with blue you get green. So it has potential. As a film director, and as an advocate of lock-picking and document forgery, I would have expected Werner to be more open on this front.
Herzog's "shadow" to put it in Jungian terms, is on full display here.
To say that his rejection of psychoanalysis is somehow indicative of a possible defect (or some deeper psychological proces) in the psyche of Mr. Herzog (that he is unaware of) I think is unfair. It's a move psychoanalysist often make, where they reinterpret your 'real' or 'unconciouss' motives. If someone says such things about you, there's nothing you can say, since you yourself don't have access to this 'deeper layer'. It's an unfalsifiable claim. It's a logical superweapon that allows you to always have the last word and to be the final arbiter on the psyche of another person. I think it's best to limit this type of thinking or at least be very careful with it. Sometimes you might be right, but like I said it's not a nice or fair thing to do to another person (unless they ask you to of course).
Because it is quackery. Most people believe it with blind faith.
Your art analogy is such nonsense it's hard to know where to begin. Artists choices are often arbitrary yet not for childish Reasons like not liking a color. It could be about adventure, challenge, a minimal palette.
Stick to what you know.
@@30yearsoldiam1 "Artists choices are often arbitrary" yeah, and? Your statement has no bearing on the subject. No frame of reference. You're like a child who wanders in to the middle of a movie...
One can also hide things in that darkness that they do not wish to see. Sweep it under the rug, as it were.
Spot on!
My Hero, Werner Herzog! This makes having sat through Aguirre a worthwhile sacrifice. It’s no coincidence that “therapist” can be parsed as “the” “rapist”. Analysists are mind and soul rapists.
I one time saw three therapists at once. Told them the same exact things. All 3 said 3 different things to me to do or cope. I stopped seeing them. Then I found one who believed in Jung and Campbell and The Heroes Journey of rebirth. I stick with him. Changed my life.
I think he's right.
More mental illness than ever rn, and more "therapy" than ever.
and more money given to mr. doctor, BA, phd fresh graduates who think they are hot shizz for sitting in school for 30 years and not experiencing anything actually life-enriching but acting like experts on human psyche-spirit
That doesnt mean there is causation
More cancer than ever right now, and more oncology than ever. Hm... suspicious too, isn't it ?
Maybe think more. Try to step back and observe without a pre determined mindset and beliefs
@@mrg4388 Of course. Cancer is a manufactured lie, people who "die" from it are actors, it's all for big bucks and big pharma. I know, I heard an eminent musician say this once, therefore it must be true.
Psychoanalysis is useful. I tend to think people are well off reading some psychoanalytic material and using it as a means of reflection. Beyond traditional psychoanalysis and its tendency to seek illumination and discovery, and beyond the identification and assimilation of the "shadow", one may discover a respect for and recognition of as yet unseen shadows, and the shadows of shadows, and the unknowable, unseeable, undetectable aspects of psyche. Also useful is the recognition that psychoanalysis is never "done". One is never fully or completely analyzed. We should dispense with notions that humans are perfectable and that a reasonable aim of psychoanalysis should consist of a linear progression with a definite end point in which someone is fixed or whole or in some way perfect.
the difference is most psychological people are not actually pychologists
He was before his time. Psychoanalysis has largely been discarded at this point. A few still let themselves be fooled by it by several sessions a week for years to decades.
I love Herzog, and of course he would have that opinion, he is Herzog after all. Is he right though? Well, maybe in some ways, but not exactly. Some psychoanalysts might be a plague, but psychoanalysis is pretty damn useful and insightful.
Totally agree. Herzog simply builds a strawman out of psychoanalysis, it's easier to do that than having a nuanced discussion...
The ego of some film directors! It's like people who distrust doctors yet they're the first one there if they need one.
Plot twist: this is Ralph Fiennes forgotten German half-brother.
He says this bc he's lives his passion.
One important thing I learned from therapy (something I will never do again) is that people can only handle so much negative emotion at once. When you start to dig up every traumatic thing that’s ever happened to you, it’s impossible to handle and it sends you down the path of a mental breakdown. I would never recommend therapy to anybody and I believe it to be incredibly dangerous for people’s mental health.
Every kid who went to therapy (at my school) didn't get any better.
Same with chiropracters coincidentally.
@@MerlynMusicmanThey’re both hacks.
Retraumatization is a common thing on verbal therapies like psychoanalysis. That's a sign of a bad therapy praxis. Such cases must be treated by a specialist trauma therapist who understands the arousal threshold that the client is capable of experience without becoming overwhelmed. That "mental breakdown" is like a tool that your mind uses to protect you from disfuntionally stored memories, the trauma. It can't be handled by the mind all at once. Check out for EMDR therapy, which carefully access and target traumatic memories and proceeds to process them with bilateral stimulation. Oh, and I really think psychoanalysis worsen the client's problems, it is an indirect form of blaming the client for what has happened in his/her life as a result of not offering a real psychological solution. A bad pyschotherapy praxis in itself. I'm sad to see so many people giving up on healing because of bad clinical experiences.
X brought us here
Calling a group of people "a disease" shows that he's maybe not the most mentally stable person
That being said, he's right that psychotherapists love to think they got it all, that everything either needs "talking about it" or some pills that directly affect the brain, when really often times it's a physical illness of sorts that affects the the entire body including the brain, and them giving some potent brain-altering pills or misattributing it to some bad social experiences just makes things worse really, which then requires even more intervention (in their eyes)
Not just the analysts, most people
Hes definitely afraid of what a pschoanalyst might reveal about him, lets be real
And you defend it like it's hard science. Let's be real.
@@JanFWeh I didn't do that
I mean he’s absolutely right, speaking as someone who has gone through a decade of therapy. The goal of a therapist is to make sure you conform to the norm and don’t upset the apple cart. It’s sad that in our world it’s much more convenient to “fix” broken people instead of fixing the world that broke them in the first place. If every broken person was ironed out and fixed, there would be no interesting people in the world, no “characters”.
Characters in this world are always gonna be there no matter what, and the goal of a therapist is definitely not trying to make you conform with to the norm, but to make you understand yourself and your relationship with the world a little bit better (that's it if they're not bad therapists and the premise of their work is this improvment they can help you achieve in your life).
It seems like you didn't have a positive and rewarding experience with therapy (maybe you did, I really don't know just by reading this comment) and that is very frustrating when you have been doing it for such a long time, but don't give up on working on yourself and being a better human.
Romanticizing people like they're interesting because of a certain trait or quality is not healthy to you or them - also nobody is ever "fixed" or "ironed out", no matter what kind of person you are, and there's nothing more to it really, that's just existence.
Recognizing it for what it is can help you gain some well-being and satisfaction with how life goes, I think.
@@henrico6973 Glad you said this, even if no one listened. Completely agree.
Brilliant commentary. Thank you for sharing this!
I fail to see the point of his argument. “It’s bad to illuminate the corners of the human mind, because if the corners of a house were illuminated the house would be inhabitable.” It makes no sense to me. I think the corners of the human mind should be looked at because it gives us a better understanding of the origins of evil and malevolence and in turn a heightened recognition of that same darkness that is in us all.