Here's the full documentary that the first clip is from: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gw9O2jKAPaq2MO99 More Herzog videos here: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html&si=P7Q8l4Y9FlTwutk0
Shrink 1 to Shrink 2: "When we landed on the island and the plane flew away.. how did that make you feel?" LOL I am picturing them making a makeshift "sofa" out of palm tree fronds.
Great clip, that. Can recommend the film it's from, "Encounters at the End of the World". If there's any one clip that's quintessential Herzog to my mind, though, it's this: th-cam.com/video/dvbxh2rLcdo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KFcpP8BriWLPm8TO
I am a psychoanalyst and I do believe its rise is indicative of a broken society. I constantly question its efficacy and sociological ascent. There are a lot of therapists out there and a lot of them are very disturbed. However, like politicians, there are a few good one's too. And yes, I am a big fan of Werner Herzog's work.
it's efficacy is negative -- the labyrinth of faeces, genitalia, mouths, nipples you constructed is something you will never escape. The only reliably curative effect psychoanalysis has is in regards to your bank account.
For me Tarantino and Scorsese made me fall in love with cinema as a young teen. But it was Herzog who made me fall in love with documentary filmmaking.
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 it seems that most people know him for his documentaries, but I first discovered his work through his feature films from the 70s and early 80s. Lots of good ones: Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre, Nosferatu, Herz aus Glas, Kaspar Hauser... recommended, in case you've yet to see them.
@@Vingul oh yeah, I'm pretty familiar with Herzog's fiction resume as well (although of the ones you mention I haven't seen Herz aus Glas, I'll have to check that out). But although I've always enjoyed his movies, it was his documentaries that really impacted me. Specifically Grizzly Man, the moment where he chooses to film himself listening to the attack rather than the audio of the attack itself- watching that was the first time I realised a documentary could tell an emotional story just as artistically and deeply as a movie, it didn't just have to be a Discovery Channel-style reeling off of events and facts. And I've been fascinated with the ability of documentaries to tell the emotional truth beyond the bare facts ever since.
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 Late response here, but yeah, Herz aus Glas is one I’ve sometimes thought of as my very favourite Herzog film - even if not his «best». Good point re: Grizzly Man. To your point about documentaries, the film that most achieves that to my mind, along with some of Herzog’s and Les Blank’s films, is «Harlan County, USA» by Barbara Kopple. No narration, just following a coalmining society in Kentucky as they go on strike in the early 1970s. Very powerful. Perhaps you know it. (P.S. I’ve posted some clips from it, including the intro, in case you’d like a preview. Made a playlist with those that should be pretty easily discoverable).
I believe what Werner Herzog rejects it’s the obsession with the self in psychoanalysis and how that alienates the individual into only thinking about itself …
I work with a therapist who specialises in psychoanalysis. It has helped me immensely in healing unhelpful neurotic traits. Having illumination on semi-subconscious mental patterns, dark corners of the soul is essential to process trauma and correct beliefs from formative years in early life. What people get wrong about this is that, this is not a fix, there is no fix. These things are not meant to be fixed, they're meant to be processed, understood, reframed into a new narrative and developing peace and acceptance towards it. Maturity comes from an evolution of our thinking and that could come from psychoanalitic conversations too, and so it could come from many other types of conversation, but the dialogue with ourselves and another person is the key.
How can thought reshape thought? Its like telling someone with a broken leg go walk on it until it gets better. You cant analyse your way out of yourself.
yep all of those things are achievable by oneself. getting a psychiatrist is just extending childhood with a parent figure who knows what's up. nothing wrong with that. IMO you gotta change yourself without external help at some point. or not
Interesting analogy at the end about the undesirability of living in a fully illuminated house. It does appear that darkness and shadow are just as important in sculpting one’s interior space. Thanks for posting.
It's not that interesting, it assumes that the light psychoanalysts shine on the dark corners of the mind reveals any truth. I think it only reveals their own stupidity and magical thinking, so I'm surprised he even used this metaphor
I'm Irish and I confirm what Herzog is saying: psychology and psychoanalysis is a load of aul shite. Literally. Its all about sniffing the shite that comes out of our arses. In Ireland, we know that a big shite is just a natural effect of 4 or 5 pints of Guinness. If you want them analysed, take your turds to a hospital laboratory.
Something his analogy is missing is the questioning of whether what is being "illuminated" is actually there. Probably the main problem with psychology and psychoanalysis is that they reveal at least as many falsehoods as facts. So it's not so similar to illuminating a house, but rather projecting images on the wall of a darkened house and expecting those images to match what is there when you turn the lights on.
reminder that the replication crisis, while a big deal in every field, is especially bad in social sciences like psychology. Some studies have found upwards of 75% of all psychology studies fail to replicate. This is most often caused by what scientists term "Questionable Research Practices" as well as other problems like p-hacking. There is a 75% chance any psychology study you read is total bull, according to the experts.
@@VossstPsychoanalysis is not a science, had been debunked a long time ago and modern psychology no longer treats Freud seriously but only as a historical curiosity, a part of the “growing pains” of the natural evolution of a completely new field.
Yeah a great point. " Illuminating corners of our soul" is very different from "thinking that we are illuminating corners of our soul". Most of psychology findings (>96%) can not even be replicated. Psychology is just gaslighting.
I had a wonderful pschoannalyst that started my journey to healing my brain from severe damage. But he did not make me think anything except to question everything. Thank you sir from UNCG Student phyciatric support for students. I am sorry but i forget his name. He knows who he is if still alive.
It's sad that many people will dismiss psychoanalysis on the basis of Herzog's statements. In these videos Herzog builds a straw man out of psychoanalysis and then proceeds to burn it to the ground. In my opinion, he's a colossal twat.
That psychoanalysts on a plane to a stranded island line sounds like an interesting movie idea, he should have done a ‘Lord Of The Flies’, but with psychoanalysts. Call it ‘Lord Of The Minds’ or smth like that.
the point of psychology is not to illuminate every dark corner of the house. It's about living in the house with some degree of freedom and comfort and not to be stuck in the same room. it's not really kind, if you are already living comfortably in your house, to scoff at people trying to live comfortably in theirs.
@@ghfudrs93uuu That is utterly wrong. There is no movement that pushes people into therapy it is quite the opposite: psychiatrists and therapists are overwhelmed with patients/clients. And to your second point: Which "common behaviors" exactly are pathologized?
@@florianmedulla Psychologists are much more interested in middling with healthy patients than people who actually need psychological help. That's where the "everyone should go to therapy" bs comes from. And, that's what they mostly get. When they face someone with an actual pathology they are quick to refer them to someone else. You should read the last APA report about traditional masculinity
You are right. But... 😅 ... the statistic shows that more than 50 percent of the treatments are a failure. I think we have to admit that psychology and therapy in the end are also just a tool of power. Sorry for my english, btw.
I started noticing people talking about therapy the same way people would talk about finding Jesus. Recommending it to everyone, etc. Not even saying it's a bad thing, just an observation.
Funny enough, Jesus is the only way out. Everything else, including psychoanalysis, is a blind alley where things go to rot and die. There is no life outside of Christ. ☦️
@spikestoyou I would say philosophy is. That could lead to a question of whether Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc are fundamentally true or worth following and the answer could be a liberating factor. I am a Muslim but if I had time to talk to a person about religion I would start with setting some philosophical groundwork first.
@@mohamamdyahyaasadahmad3165 Philosophy can be a tool used to discern what is true and good but it makes no real claims as to what IS actually true and good. You don’t sound so sure that Islam beats out Hinduism, etc. I guess philosophy hasn’t been as useful as you thought? Or is this just your kneejerk reaction to hearing Christ’s name? Funny how basically all religions are valid or on the table the second someone brings up Christ, and yet Christianity is never given that same treatment. Almost like if it were true, people might actually have to confront something about themselves.
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Another a guy who probably stays silent whenever some other religious sect or gnostic cult gets mentioned but feels the irrepressible urge to say something when Christ’s name is invoked. I hope you’re able to find some peace before your time is up. It’s later than you think.
i could not agree more. struggling as i do with mental health problems (itself a gaslighting term), i have dealt extensively with the psychiatric community. most of them have no talent for it. to begin with, they have never experienced anything even close to the conditions they claim to know about. everything they know is learnt (often lazily) from books. secondly, their whole purpose is to help the afflicted to regain fitness to enter the workforce. this means that they are virtually incapable of acknowledging that modern existence might have something to do with all the sufffering. thirdly, they have a child's understanding of the nature of trauma. i'll prove it to you: "abuse of any kind will not be tollerrated". this is the standard line for all NHS mental health organisations. anyone who knows anything at all about trauma understands only too well that fear creates anger and violence. think of an animal backed into a corner and fighting for its life. this is the perpetual state of someone who is traumatised. they either lash out, or they completely give up hope. they may also fawn or freeze, but for the purposes of this argument let's focus on the violence. by failing to recognise anger and violence as a consequence of trauma, the psychiatric community essentially blames the sufferer for their own condition. i have seen this in a number of friends. they end up being diagnosed with conditions that make the anger the focus of attention. it means their trauma goes not only unrecognised, but untreated. needless to say, total idiocy. the only psychiatrists worth a tuppeny fuck are the ones who decry their own industry.
Nicely put. My thoughts on the matter are it's just another mechanism for dependency and control. imho, it's like religion. It's for the scared and the weak. At some point one must accept who they are and their lot in life. I have. It's quite liberating.
It does not matter how one confronts their own delusions, fear, and chaos (psychoanalysis, etc)... That they choose to do so - regardless of the form they take - is the most important point... Psychoanalysis is one way to confront and challenge these things... It is not wise to discredit a process whereby these things can be dealt with...
His analogy seems to imply Psychoanalysis is an attempt to cleanse/remove the darkness of the house/human psyche, but, as far as I know, the aim isn't to abolish the darkness, but to understand and ultimately integrate it into your psyche/house. This understanding helps prevent you from being blind sided by an aspect of your personality you're unfamiliar with.
@@canti7951I don’t know, it sounds consonant with Lacan, learning to live *with* the symptom rather than futilely fighting against by denying/repressing it.
@@canti7951 Apart from Freud, Jung is the most influential and important figure of psychoanalysis. Jung's theories and the science of psychoanalysis are anything but mutually exclusive, Jungian thought is literally a school of psychoanalysis.
@@BookofCommonTerror But I wouldn't say they're the same thing, no? The word symptom has a sociological and even political significance that the word shadow doesn't really have. The "solution" might be similar but I don't think they work the same. Overall though, despite Jung's influence, would you really call Jung a psychoanalyst? I don't think he is.
i love WH and as a psychoanalytic therapist i find his POV as always very interesting. while it seems to me that people can benefit from analysis it's also crucial to treat the individual with great respect and some analysts are far too confident about their own capacities for insight. however i'm not sure that WH has understood that people go to analysts for help because they are suffering, not merely to illuminate corners of their psyche, and illumination is only required in as far as it might help to relieve that suffering and make the houses of their psyches more, not less inhabitable. i imagine that WH may have always found his own psychic house a pretty good place to be, sadly not the case for everybody. but in terms of his work, yes, it is absolutely vital that there are psychology-free spaces and he has provided us with many wonderful examples of these. WH, we love you even if you hate us :)
What do you think about the idea that some significant part of the time, psychoanalysts think a subtle and not-easily-detectable physical illness which causes pain and/or leads to lots of inflammation (the cytokines can directly affect neurons like neurotransmitters) is actually some issue based on trauma or bad thought patterns or that the solution is psychoactive pills? That's actually something that I've just gone through this last year: I had mold in my room and also have a strong dust mite allergy, went a year without removing the mold and only now (after over 10+ years really) finally got anti-allergy bedsheets and such, and over the last year my mental health was often so bad that people thought I must be on drugs or something, but turned out it was just a ridiculous amount of chronic inflammation in the lungs (the dust mite allergy made it easier for the mold to grow in my lungs) which led to tons of cytokines and large-scale but low-level pain in the large organ that is the lungs. Have now finally dealt with both the mold and the dust mite in my bed, and now over the last month it finally got way, way better, and now all the sudden I'm actually feeling comfortable for the first time in years and all those people who thought I was "weeeeeird" and "awkwaaaard" and everything over the last year actually came around to liking me quite a bit now
Well he's a filmmaker so I think his answer is mostly preoccupied with filmmaking where psychology and psychoanalysis made a storm on human soul so to speak. You'd be hard pressed to find a western movie in 21st century that isn't referencing Freud, Jung or at least some psychological concept that the author thought was novel enough to spice up his story. A lot of movies explicitly feature wise all knowing psychologists too. And if you happen to stumble on a movie that defies this the critics will still try to to map to psychoanalyst concepts, calling it bad failing at the task. for somebody like Herzog this must be frustrating to the highest degree.
WH is however right to question the benefit of casting a microscope on things like anxiety and or personal vice (things that anger us), which inflames and actually makes the anxiety and anger worse…I found this from experience. Also there is rarely a diagnose treat protocol, like in conventional therapy … a psychologist usually waits for a fallible person to diagnose themselves and this might take years or never happen. I think that is unethical. Imagine medical doctors worked this way? There would be an uproar.
You don't want to illuminate your whole house but it's not a bad idea to turn the lights on every now and then in case you're constantly tripping over the crap you've left scattered about.
I think his point (which I agree at least metaphorically) is; Leave something that you constantly trip over. Realize that you just can't figure out how to handle THAT crap. It's annoying. It hurts! In a meanwhile figure out how to fall. Eventually laugh at it and enjoy the fall. Perhaps turn the fall into a dance move at times. Now you got yourself a dance partner, made out of crap and dark. Well you got the point.
"...what upsets us about other people, reveals more about aspects of ourselves" (Carl Jung)... The work of W.Herzog entertained me, the work of C.G.Jung enlightened me. So...whatever, Mr. Herzog!
All you got from Herzog’s work was entertainment? That’s a bit sad. I like both of their work. I’ll remind you that Jung isn’t exactly mainstream, certainly he wasn’t in the early 1980s. How big is the chance that a random psychoanalyst is an acolyte of Jung? Very slim. I know Herzog paints with a broad brush here, but Jung disagreed with Freud as well, and most of psychoanalysis is Freudian.
@@thomasklein8559 Cool cool! I think some of his films get as near to the sublime and what he calls "ecstatic truth" as film gets.. Tarkovsky is the only one I'd place alongside him, although he's very different.
To stay on the illuminated house metaphor: your unconscious will always revert back to the chaotic darkness. But for people who have a non functional house you have to illuminate briefly where the house is breaking down, fix it, then leave it to the darkness again
Exactly. Like that the fuck is actually his argument? We should not try to understand our minds and subconsciousness? Of course you can go too far and end up OVERanalyzing everything, at which point you are just seeing through everything without actually experiencing what you arw looking at.
@@mrajsma01 thr man's point, as stated in the first moments of the vid, are that the psychoanalysts are not only woefully under qualified in this field (the field itself isnt developed enough) but they are incredibly arrogant about their position. He explains, in his view, that they are akin to brain surgeons from ancient egypt. They arent anywhere near the expertise they consider themselves to be at.
@@Motivational_Posters you dont realize this, but you're attempting a logical fallacy for thia argument by attacking his character (credentials) rather than the topic at hand. How are you, myself, or anyone else "qualified" to ponder and express opinions on anything at all? Clearly, he isnt in a position of authority, whereas he may have influenced policy or otherwise affected lives. But merely having an opinion, however strong, isnt grounds for disregarding or quieting someone. In fact, outsider opinions are important for discourse.
@@colekter5940 You're attempting to deduce a lot from my question. You could have gone with the initial point that he has a right to express his thoughts on a matter, and I don't have to necessarily agree. I simply asked what qualifies him to speak on the matter. Also, there is relevant data and known factors about the world and the human brain and body that could contribute to one's overall opinion. You are committing a fallacy yourself by reducing my question to the idea that I am "attacking" his credentials (Which he literally does himself in the video.)
It’s clear Mr Herzog’s refused in his own analysis to work through and engage with the negative transference and his repressed rage against his own father. The Oedipal drama is so utterly unresolved!
@@Vingul it’s a joke! But…Freud said a joke diverts us from something more serious…so maybe I’m joking, but maybe also not 😉 what is Herzog displacing in the clip above….? And maybe I’m an analyst…😉
I find it quite shocking that a man as old and experienced as him just dismisses an entire field of theory and study which has been a foundation and immensely helpful for almost all mental health and trauma healing treatments we have available today. He acts like psychologists are predators who prey on clueless victims, but to many people they are the light at the end of the tunnel which directs them towards a new and healthy way of life. In a time where there are so many distractions and people barely find time to reflect on themselves, advocating against self-illumination seems the more dangerous thing to do. Maybe he's just scared to face his own demons.
I think the way he sees psychology seems more like a generalization of his own experience with psychology and psychoanalysis. There is a certain sector of critics who seem too eager to apply concepts of psychology and psychoanalysis to the works of artists, in order to "get" then. As an amateur artist myself, i find it quite annoying, and Herzog probably finds then annoying, too. The annoyiance comes from the fact that, even if they are wrong or right about your work, their interpretation might influence the way the audience sees you and your work for eternity. All that you do, no matter how sublime, will be limited to the same cheap concepts of "sysiphus complex", "sublimation", "animus", no matter if they are true or not. All that being said: Yeah, he is very wrong. Psychology is a very useful tool for general wellbeing, and we would lost a lot without it.
The good thing about psychoanalysis is that it's for the people that find ir interesting. If you don't you can just ignore it. I find it fascinating and it helps me think about things in a much more interesting way than the other schools of thought today that wish to just reduce human beings to dopamine or animal behaviouralism.
@@PepesFanGirl Speaking from experience are you? There is more than just one psychoanalytical school you know, many of them have nothing to do with Freudian psychosexual drivel, nor familial trauma.
I agree 1000% I lost a beautiful wife to this disease 😅 she watched it on youtube all day, then retold it to me when i got home back from work… it all accumulated to the point i went to work to rest from her…
there is a documentary about it and its aftermath called the century of the self. it outlines the relation between statecraft, advertising and media, and psychoanalysis (basically, its a psyop). it harmed noone more than freuds own family, incidentally.
@@wiard If your going to build something that is the most powerful machine yet, don't you think that you would cover all angles and that the machine is balanced out to ensure that nothing unbalances its chance of survival , Your cortex is pre determined in how it views reality and someone else's cortex is grown to be the exact opposite of you She that grew you has an internal clock, which is determined by the moon . so she that grew you knows what time of year it is
Psychotherapy has always been an intrinsic part of every authentic religious tradition. The problem with modern psychology is that it focuses on our darkest parts and cuts off any connection to what is above us. It horizontalizes the human psyche, when the vertical dimension is in fact essential for true psychological health.
I suppose that depends on how you define psychotherapy; I assume you're using it in a much broader sense. But that's well said. Of course Herzog is not afraid of delving into the spirit, of bringing forth a very human sense of vision and purpose, our relation to the ecstatic and the sublime -- through art -- but he doesn't "analyse". If there is "therapy" in art and storytelling, it is of an automatic, intrinsic, largely unthinking sort. That's ramblingly formulated but I think you'll get my point.
@@Vingul I definitely use the term in a broad sense and completely agree with you that modern psychology analyzes too much and does too little. And even when it focuses on doing, it usually has no place for the divine or spiritual domain.
Could you use words that actually mean something specific in stead of this vertical/horizontal bullshit? You're exemplifying what he doesn't like about them probably.
It is a very diverse field; you can still find radical psychoanalysts, but you can also find guys who want to integrate different kinds of therapeutic modalities and who use evidence-based treatment.
The Bear Man is one of the most poetic and brilliant documentaries about the human soul. There, Herzog acutely analyzes the protagonist's motivations, from a perspective that is very close to psychoanalysis.
I like how he calls them out on not admitting their practice is like medieval brain surgery. I find that to be very deeply true. Perhaps they are aware of the soft science nature of what they do, but want everyone to think it's far beyond that, while at the moment at least it is not.
He does have a good point. Its a very young profession, and to think they have cracked the human pysche is the arrogance of a medieval surgeon thinking they knew how the body works. In 100 years, people will be appalled with what the profession gets up to today. In many ways, it should be studied scientifically but not practised medically.
A friend of mine studied psychology, and said that most psychology students were psychologically messed up themselves and were studying psychology to understand their own issues / to get a grasp on their own psychology.
Psychoanalysis does not necessarily equate therapy. Psychoanalysis is just a form of therapy, and agreed with some of Herzog’s points. I like giving clients more of space to forge their path while learning things about the brain, behaviors, etc.
I've talked to 4 different psychologists and one online program dealing with behavior mostly dealing with depression. Two therapists were largely just someone to talk to with few if any insights or suggestions. Two were totally incompetent but nice. The online program dealing with biofeedback, meditation, and behavior was better, but still so so. Reading on my issues and staying busy were far more effective. Therapy is a never ending circle jerk for not all perhaps, but many or most.
It’s actually gotten worse. The hubris alone from these fallible individuals is enough to make me physically ill. Maybe that’s the game plan. At least it would take my mind off of my emotional struggles.
@@simonostermann5284Psychology as a whole isn’t science, so I’m not too sure what he was off base about. Psychologists want to call it a “replication crisis”, but in all reality it’s just that none of them can recreate any of their results. Meaning that last part of the scientific method, where the hypothesis is proven true, is skipped by these “scientists”. It truly is like brain surgeons in Ancient Egypt, they hardly understand what they’re trying to fix.
The last few lines of this clip clarify the whole meaning. It's not so much that the field of psychology or the practice of psychoanalysis are inadequate in their ability to reveal truth, it's that humans require some amount of mystery and ambiguity to function at all. This is clearly debatable, but seems pretty obvious to me. I don't think anyone actually wants to know the full picture. Which probably isn't on the menu anyway.
Ayyee, you're monetized bro? Wel, i may just have to watch ALL your Content now , could be enough for a coffee XD Thanks again and again, for all of it !
Haha, well thanks very much, but I haven’t monetised it, though I could. I think they might just place more ads on my stuff if I do.. and I can’t stand ads, meself. Guess I’ll just go to work to get money 🤣 thank you for the support man! Appreciate it.
@@cammo777 Cheers, I do try to make this channel a counterweight to that, though both are needed (not to actually be blackpilled but you know - I indulge as well). You’re one of the guys who has been around the longest so it’s good to see you drop by from time to time. Not that everyone who’s around necessarily leave comments all the time (appreciated regardless). o7 brother
@@Vingul lol I really should be out doing acktivism instead of getting fried by 60Ghz mm mw frqncies in my house but bah, lets watch videos, and streams, more videos it is a bit sad tbh ahaa. but i am enjoying The BEst of The best so there;s that o7 Chat soon Brother TC !
Why you hate that, and not hate that a person who is an expert in cinema but NOT in psychology (so the very definition of an armchair psychologist) blames an entire category of professionals as a disease.
Everynow and then I see those obscure artists and their takes on society and their alienation from its dogma, I feel these are the only ones that could really say it as it is!
Yeah well he also thinks disease is caused by people being inhabited by "body thetans" sent here from a galactic overlord named Xenu who lived 75 million years ago so he's not exactly my go-to expert on whether something is legit or not.
Suspicion of psychology is the only redeeming feature of Scientology, and the only reason they attack psychology is because THEY want to be doing the mind control.
Hey man, I saw your previous comment and been meaning to reply -- I'm uploading the full documentary right now, will give you the link in about 45 minutes.
@@Jonathan-ru9zl you're welcome -- it's just up now, there isn't really much more of that precise interview, but here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UDH_EdNd2Snme4pf
Also somehow have worked their way into the legal system, being able to deem someone as sane or not and having that take a legal president in their life seems short sighted and wrong to me.
@@BBBJOT I haven't seen The Sopranos, but screenwriters often put true statements in the mouths of horrible characters precisely in order to ridicule those true statements.
@@WakaWaka2468 I've seen quite a few clips but only seen the first two episodes in full (had them on VHS lol). Been meaning to check it out properly forever though. Thanks for the reminder.
If you're here and you're posting about how actually, you've been very helped by your psychologist, I think that's great, go ahead and continue that, carefully. There's a very fine line between understanding how the abuse you endured affects you so that you might put an end to the cycle, and staring so deeply into the abyss between the cracks of your own broken pieces that you don't even realize you've fallen between them. Werner strikes me as the kind of person who is fully aware of how dangerous the edge can be. An artist who possessed the presence of mind to anchor himself before peering over.
Good to hear, as you can guess from that second clip his films are rather based on impulses that aren't easily categorisable than they are rationalistic. Like "Herz aus Glas", a beautiful film in my opinion. Or "Lessons of Darkness", which reimagines the oil well fires in Kuwait in 1991 through a sort of strange sci-fi lens, hah -- elevating it to much more than a news story, to put it mildly. I shouldn't assume that you are totally new to Herzog, of course. But here are some other clips of him/his films that I've uploaded in case you're interested: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html
@@Vingul Oh, very nice. I've been only vaguely familiar with his work for the longest time, but I've recently developed an interest in him. Thank you for the recommendations!
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Cool! Hope you'll enjoy some of his work if you check it out. Those two I mentioned are relatively "obscure" btw.. you've probably heard of some of the more well known films like Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre or Nosferatu (not to mention his many documentaries). Might be just as well to start with one of those.
He contradicts himself. Argument one against psychoanalysis is that it's ignorant and overestimates its abilities. Argument two is that it's abilities are too potent and threaten to make the human soul uninhabitable through over-illumnation. These are mutually contradictory arguments.
@@erikottema2620 If he was implying it was a TRUE illumination - then the analogy might not make sense. He obviously has a healthy contempt for psychoanalysis, however.
@@tonycairns6728 Can you explain what his point is? I'm genuinely curious. There are obvious flaws to Freudian psychology, but I don't see how they apply to the analogy
4yrs of psychoanalysis has shed light on many dark areas, other areas were lightened later for me. However it has also shown that my family and many friends were somewhat toxic. I’ve even become more solitary and detached as relationships don’t feed or support an unfortunate need for companionship.😢
People are profoundly flawed and disappointing. I’ve learned over my life to love myself and not depend on anybody for all my happiness. Over the years I’ve had to cut toxic people from my life including friends and a family member. I recently had to terminate all communications with a friend who made demands on me and attacked me randomly for no reason because he became angry at the world going through a divorce. He actually demanded that I cut myself from a mutual kind generous friend because he didn’t like him and said I couldn’t be his friend if I hung out with him. He also attacked his siblings and people who were kind to him. He became a complete jerk and was proud of it (he said he became somebody he really was without any insight)
I've never understood Herzog's abject rejection of psychoanalysis, except to read as a symptom of his own ongoing analysis. It's like a painter deciding to arbitrarily negate the color yellow from his/her palette. You might not like yellow, but if you mix it with blue you get green. So it has potential. As a film director, and as an advocate of lock-picking and document forgery, I would have expected Werner to be more open on this front.
To say that his rejection of psychoanalysis is somehow indicative of a possible defect (or some deeper psychological proces) in the psyche of Mr. Herzog (that he is unaware of) I think is unfair. It's a move psychoanalysist often make, where they reinterpret your 'real' or 'unconciouss' motives. If someone says such things about you, there's nothing you can say, since you yourself don't have access to this 'deeper layer'. It's an unfalsifiable claim. It's a logical superweapon that allows you to always have the last word and to be the final arbiter on the psyche of another person. I think it's best to limit this type of thinking or at least be very careful with it. Sometimes you might be right, but like I said it's not a nice or fair thing to do to another person (unless they ask you to of course).
Your art analogy is such nonsense it's hard to know where to begin. Artists choices are often arbitrary yet not for childish Reasons like not liking a color. It could be about adventure, challenge, a minimal palette. Stick to what you know.
@@30yearsoldiam1 "Artists choices are often arbitrary" yeah, and? Your statement has no bearing on the subject. No frame of reference. You're like a child who wanders in to the middle of a movie...
I totally understand Herzog's logic (being a fan of his films helps to understand even more of what he's saying here!). Still, of course, he's looking at psychoanalysis with the "at its worst" measuring stick: at its worst, all a psychologist does is make a patient talk about their worst trauma over and over, without real improvement, just mulling over and over (almost like reliving it at the moment) during the therapy session. That's when "the light that shines bright all through the house", as Herzog expressed, doesn't really help anybody. But that's because there are different types of therapy that can help overcome trauma without using the traditional Freudian method (EMDR therapy, for example) and psychoanalysis is not a "for everyone" solution, no matter what some therapists might about it. But, at its best, the psychoanalysis session is very close to being that famous "talking cure" they originally called it, because it helps a person simply by letting them talk about their issues, doubts, etc. And just that, to be able to sit with someone for an hour or so, and talk about what's happening inside our minds, is an ENORMOUS help to realize that at least half of the things we have coursing through our brain -or more- are merely products of our self-doubt, our imagination, our paranoia or our crooked way of looking at the world through a solitary perception. At its best, psychoanalysis also helps anyone to feel less alone, contained (at least in part), maybe even safe... because it really helps so many people to "get out" of their own labyrinth of a mind once in a while, and look at things in another perspective... and if you can't look, at least you are heard (a luxury not everyone has in our current times) by someone. Is not for everyone, as I've said, but it helps (and sometimes saves) a lot of people from drowning in the darkness of their own minds... and that's always a good thing because sometimes the darkness is too much for a single "house of the mind" and you DEFINITELY need some light in some corners, just not all of them. My dear and admired Werner Herzog can say this and so much more about psychoanalysis because he deals with his inner darkness, thoughts, and interests through art and films. And to me, that is perfect enough just for him. But for the rest of the people on the planet who are NOT a master filmmaker or artistic genius like Herzog, sometimes a good therapy (traditional or otherwise) is worth a lot, and it is helpful like you wouldn't believe it.
I mean he’s absolutely right, speaking as someone who has gone through a decade of therapy. The goal of a therapist is to make sure you conform to the norm and don’t upset the apple cart. It’s sad that in our world it’s much more convenient to “fix” broken people instead of fixing the world that broke them in the first place. If every broken person was ironed out and fixed, there would be no interesting people in the world, no “characters”.
Characters in this world are always gonna be there no matter what, and the goal of a therapist is definitely not trying to make you conform with to the norm, but to make you understand yourself and your relationship with the world a little bit better (that's it if they're not bad therapists and the premise of their work is this improvment they can help you achieve in your life). It seems like you didn't have a positive and rewarding experience with therapy (maybe you did, I really don't know just by reading this comment) and that is very frustrating when you have been doing it for such a long time, but don't give up on working on yourself and being a better human. Romanticizing people like they're interesting because of a certain trait or quality is not healthy to you or them - also nobody is ever "fixed" or "ironed out", no matter what kind of person you are, and there's nothing more to it really, that's just existence. Recognizing it for what it is can help you gain some well-being and satisfaction with how life goes, I think.
There is a movie called "12 monkeys" wherein a time traveler gets institutionalized by psychiatrists. One of the Drs therein admits that they are the equivalent of a new priest class.
Psychoanalysis is useful. I tend to think people are well off reading some psychoanalytic material and using it as a means of reflection. Beyond traditional psychoanalysis and its tendency to seek illumination and discovery, and beyond the identification and assimilation of the "shadow", one may discover a respect for and recognition of as yet unseen shadows, and the shadows of shadows, and the unknowable, unseeable, undetectable aspects of psyche. Also useful is the recognition that psychoanalysis is never "done". One is never fully or completely analyzed. We should dispense with notions that humans are perfectable and that a reasonable aim of psychoanalysis should consist of a linear progression with a definite end point in which someone is fixed or whole or in some way perfect.
Yet Jung disagreed with Freud, and most of the field as we know it is derived from Freud's theories. I take Jung seriously -- Freud I have little regard for.
@@taaayooos I don’t really know the field well enough to have very strong opinions either way, but one could make analogies to shaky foundations etc etc. Sometimes you just have to tear the whole thing down and start anew.
@@Vingul Except that most modern psychological thought owes an enormous debt to Freud and the sensitivity with which he asked key questions about the way humans think, feel, and develop. You would be a better critic of his conclusions (many of which Freud himself changed his mind about) if you were better read about the field of psychoanalysis. Your responses betray a deep lack of awareness of the field and its history. I'd recommend reading Steven Mitchell's "Freud and Beyond" as an accessible primer of PA thought.
@@Cleveland_Rocks I’m sure he had a deeper mind than I, a layman, can sometimes think. What I find «problematic» is the extent to which it seems that Freud has projected his own, seemingly rather twisted, psyche onto the whole of humanity, and through his teachings these quirks have been manifested in the institutions. Take his strange focus on carnal desire between immediate family members, for one thing. For another, let me first say that I know people with serious childhood trauma, but it seems to me that his «psychologising» has led people to focus over-much on this aspect, even actively searching for trauma when there isn’t really much to go on and blowing up rather mundane things from their childhood in an attempt to explain their current strife. I’ve experienced this in people I know, and I see it as quite unhealthy and part of Freud’s legacy.
If psychoanalysis is what he says it is, then I am also against it. Perhaps the best we analysts can hope for is to be charlatans who nonetheless offer a situation in which someone can find means to suffer less in their life, and even be happy to be alive.
The problem he describes reaches far deeper than only Psychoanalysis. His critique should aim at the whole "Enlightenment" project , of which Psychoanalysis - at least in its more Freudian branch - is but a more recent branch. He is tapping into one of the core issues of the "Modern Era" itself. His metaphor of the uninhabitable house in this perspective is merely more than the Romantics critique of the Enlightenment Movement and therefore comes with both, the plausibility and truth as well as the pitfalls already worked out in that discourse.
If you hate the modern era so much there are still places that have rejected the enlightenment. Of course you'd have to convert to their religion and live under the whims of a monarch or supreme leader. Something you probably don't want to do because you romanticize a past you were not alive to experience.
His analogy with the "uninhabitable house" is absurd in the context he gave though. What _he_ is saying with that analogy, is that he'd rather live in filth and disease, as long as he can be dissonant and ignorant. _That_ is the rational reality of it, regardless of whether you'd agree with his other points or not.
@@SebHaarfagre I don't think so. There is a difference between a home to live in (a place that can be comfortable and uplifting precisely because it allows for some idionsyncrasies and messiness) and a filthy, disordered place of anxiety. In my interpretation he is not advocating for the latter, but rather against the other extreme: which is a place that is perfectly ordered and perfectly clean, but in all its cleanness and orderliness becomes hostile to the messy realities of life.
He's wrong about one thing. It's not that psychoanalysts or psychologists want to analyse people, it's that people desperately want a solution for problems that can't be remedied with a pill or surgery.
One important thing I learned from therapy (something I will never do again) is that people can only handle so much negative emotion at once. When you start to dig up every traumatic thing that’s ever happened to you, it’s impossible to handle and it sends you down the path of a mental breakdown. I would never recommend therapy to anybody and I believe it to be incredibly dangerous for people’s mental health.
Retraumatization is a common thing on verbal therapies like psychoanalysis. That's a sign of a bad therapy praxis. Such cases must be treated by a specialist trauma therapist who understands the arousal threshold that the client is capable of experience without becoming overwhelmed. That "mental breakdown" is like a tool that your mind uses to protect you from disfuntionally stored memories, the trauma. It can't be handled by the mind all at once. Check out for EMDR therapy, which carefully access and target traumatic memories and proceeds to process them with bilateral stimulation. Oh, and I really think psychoanalysis worsen the client's problems, it is an indirect form of blaming the client for what has happened in his/her life as a result of not offering a real psychological solution. A bad pyschotherapy praxis in itself. I'm sad to see so many people giving up on healing because of bad clinical experiences.
@YarrBr0 What a weird and empty response. It's almost as if you've read the comment and thought "hey, I'm a therapist" and accidentally typed your thought in in the comment section.
I mean, he's not wrong about illumination. I don't hide any of my dark corners and I spend most of my time alone. That's what fearlessness does to a person
I fail to see the point of his argument. “It’s bad to illuminate the corners of the human mind, because if the corners of a house were illuminated the house would be inhabitable.” It makes no sense to me. I think the corners of the human mind should be looked at because it gives us a better understanding of the origins of evil and malevolence and in turn a heightened recognition of that same darkness that is in us all.
I one time saw three therapists at once. Told them the same exact things. All 3 said 3 different things to me to do or cope. I stopped seeing them. Then I found one who believed in Jung and Campbell and The Heroes Journey of rebirth. I stick with him. Changed my life.
He was before his time. Psychoanalysis has largely been discarded at this point. A few still let themselves be fooled by it by several sessions a week for years to decades.
He doesn't understand psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis doesn't want to illuminate every corner of a person's soul, or whatever - just the particular repressed memory or memories that are causing someone debilitating distress and affecting their quality of life. The rest can be left well alone.
@@mentalitydesignvideo Psychoanalysis isn't just about repressed memories though so even if they don't exist, doesn't mean psychoanalysis is somehow not useful for many
@@mentalitydesignvideothey exist as I understand them, lets say there is trauma likely during childhood, the individual simply tries their best not to relive or remember, then as the years pass they are forgotten, unresolved, abandoned, repressed.
@@rogerdavidson6236 partly on my experience of having a complete memory going back to the age of about 20 months (apart from events that put me in a state akin to knockout which blocks formation of memories -- if these events are presented as memories, they are most likely reconstructions, such is the neurophysiology) and also research into false memories, memory implantation (which is partially what happens in psychoanalysis) and general malleability of memory. Or, as the president of the APA admitted in the 60's, "Psychoanalysts always see what they want to see and patients will unfailingly provide them material in the form that fit psychoanalyst's ideological affiliation."
That's exactly what Jung criticizes: people are afraid to look, to spread light on these matters. And to avoid it, that is really the problem. Using his analogy, it's like leaving the cellar always closed, unaware of what or who is inside.
Interesting comments for sure. However I wonder if the problem with psychoanalysis (and I am guessing he means psychotherapy) is not that it illuminates the entire psyche, but to the contrary it restricts the psyche to the parameters of the particular theory of psychoanalysis. In other words, when going through psychotherapy, there is a chance that you will just be looking to bring the contents in your psyche in alignment with some theory. I had a professor in college who used to call psychotherapists "the new priests". Think he may have hit the nail on the head.
Agreed! I believe that applies to ALL areas of life. Once you are no longer aware of the inherent boundaries of the theory within which you operate, you are trapped by dogma.
@@laluna5548 I am not going to claim that I know all schools of psychotherapy or that they couldn't be of some use in a particular situation, but have you ever noticed how most people going through psychotherapy talk exactly the same way?! I mean, you can almost predict their responses. It's rather scary. Now if someone is going through a trauma and they need A DOGMA to get them through the night, then I won't criticize that, but it is important to get that it is a convenient fiction to be made use of and disposed of. However, when it becomes a long-term lifestyle, then that's a problem, I think.
@@priapsus Some of this sounds like observer bias to me. Maybe many people who go to therapy are simply not vocal about it at all? I believe it is an extremely complex matter. Not surprisingly, the biggest predictor of therapy success is not the psychotherapy school but the relationship with the therapist. If they are not dogmatic, neither will most of their clients be. Those are my 2 cents :)
He watched the news in Moscow and said WTF. Probably he misunderstood Biden's condition as a result of analysis given therapists can be seriously biased and unprofessional especially lately in the US. Insanity is ruling unfortunately and it's not because of bad professionals worldwide. Probably the United States are suffering badly.
@@jamessderbyI would say he’s doing fine judging by his accomplishments. Not sure what a psychologist would exactly have to offer him. Werner Herzog nailed it a long time ago.
Trembling under the bed, guessing monsters and ghosts in the dark is something much more exciting. This way you will never feel lonely. But some people need a home to work in. And they can cope with being there alone.
I think it's fair to say the two overlap to a pretty large degree, and to talk about both in the same breath is absolutely fine. I think he's pointing to a wider "analytical" mindset. Herzog is more intuitive. He's a poet. In the first clip, he says "psychology *and* analysis" (not "psychology-analysis" or whatever you may be implying). In the second clip he's talking specifically about psychoanalysis.
@@Vingul I have the one from Signet Classics, 2004 version. Penguin Books also published it. They are still available. You can also read it online at the OpenLibrary or Gutenberg.
Here's the full documentary that the first clip is from: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=gw9O2jKAPaq2MO99
More Herzog videos here: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html&si=P7Q8l4Y9FlTwutk0
Thanks
Now I really want to see a Werner Herzog movie about a bunch of psychoanalysts stuck on a desert island.
Shrink 1 to Shrink 2: "When we landed on the island and the plane flew away.. how did that make you feel?" LOL I am picturing them making a makeshift "sofa" out of palm tree fronds.
Jungians v. Freudians… savage.
I can't believe he's never done it! Haha
agreed!
Call it ‘Id Game’
Every time I hear Herzog's voice I am reminded of the depressed penguin walking quite deliberately into the vast Antarctic interior and certain death.
Great clip, that. Can recommend the film it's from, "Encounters at the End of the World".
If there's any one clip that's quintessential Herzog to my mind, though, it's this: th-cam.com/video/dvbxh2rLcdo/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KFcpP8BriWLPm8TO
Thanks@@Vingul😁
me too :)
@@robertwarner-ev7wp that reminds me of Ed, Edd, & Eddy lol.
Didn't he narrate an episode of American Dad?
I am a psychoanalyst and I do believe its rise is indicative of a broken society. I constantly question its efficacy and sociological ascent. There are a lot of therapists out there and a lot of them are very disturbed. However, like politicians, there are a few good one's too. And yes, I am a big fan of Werner Herzog's work.
👍
it's efficacy is negative -- the labyrinth of faeces, genitalia, mouths, nipples you constructed is something you will never escape. The only reliably curative effect psychoanalysis has is in regards to your bank account.
You're no therapist - an educated person would know where an apostrophe belongs and where it doesn't. "good one's?" Give me a break 😂😂
In what ways would you say your fellow therapists are disturbed in general? Curious.
🤓@@Mrpublicimagelimited
The man who made me truly fall in love with cinema. A master of indipendent thinking and working.
For me Tarantino and Scorsese made me fall in love with cinema as a young teen. But it was Herzog who made me fall in love with documentary filmmaking.
Idiotic and ignorant thinking i would say
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 it seems that most people know him for his documentaries, but I first discovered his work through his feature films from the 70s and early 80s. Lots of good ones: Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre, Nosferatu, Herz aus Glas, Kaspar Hauser... recommended, in case you've yet to see them.
@@Vingul oh yeah, I'm pretty familiar with Herzog's fiction resume as well (although of the ones you mention I haven't seen Herz aus Glas, I'll have to check that out). But although I've always enjoyed his movies, it was his documentaries that really impacted me. Specifically Grizzly Man, the moment where he chooses to film himself listening to the attack rather than the audio of the attack itself- watching that was the first time I realised a documentary could tell an emotional story just as artistically and deeply as a movie, it didn't just have to be a Discovery Channel-style reeling off of events and facts. And I've been fascinated with the ability of documentaries to tell the emotional truth beyond the bare facts ever since.
@@oliverholmes-gunning5372 Late response here, but yeah, Herz aus Glas is one I’ve sometimes thought of as my very favourite Herzog film - even if not his «best».
Good point re: Grizzly Man.
To your point about documentaries, the film that most achieves that to my mind, along with some of Herzog’s and Les Blank’s films, is «Harlan County, USA» by Barbara Kopple. No narration, just following a coalmining society in Kentucky as they go on strike in the early 1970s. Very powerful. Perhaps you know it. (P.S. I’ve posted some clips from it, including the intro, in case you’d like a preview. Made a playlist with those that should be pretty easily discoverable).
"Your own self realisation is the greatest service you can render the world." - George Bernard Shaw
Ooh, thanks. That's a good one to remember.
I thought it was by Ramana Maharshi?
@@aksumit4217so did Ramana
No, submittance and obedience to Christ is the ticket to Heaven.
For $250 an hour
I believe what Werner Herzog rejects it’s the obsession with the self in psychoanalysis and how that alienates the individual into only thinking about itself …
I work with a therapist who specialises in psychoanalysis. It has helped me immensely in healing unhelpful neurotic traits. Having illumination on semi-subconscious mental patterns, dark corners of the soul is essential to process trauma and correct beliefs from formative years in early life. What people get wrong about this is that, this is not a fix, there is no fix. These things are not meant to be fixed, they're meant to be processed, understood, reframed into a new narrative and developing peace and acceptance towards it. Maturity comes from an evolution of our thinking and that could come from psychoanalitic conversations too, and so it could come from many other types of conversation, but the dialogue with ourselves and another person is the key.
Thanks for this qualified comment.
Beautifully written
How can thought reshape thought? Its like telling someone with a broken leg go walk on it until it gets better. You cant analyse your way out of yourself.
@@ExecutionerHopkinsundivided attention 😂
yep all of those things are achievable by oneself. getting a psychiatrist is just extending childhood with a parent figure who knows what's up. nothing wrong with that. IMO you gotta change yourself without external help at some point. or not
Interesting analogy at the end about the undesirability of living in a fully illuminated house. It does appear that darkness and shadow are just as important in sculpting one’s interior space. Thanks for posting.
Indeed! Cheers.
@@Vingul Fascinating channel you have here.
Think I'll wander around a bit.
Congratulations on the traffic and Elon nod 🚀
It's not that interesting, it assumes that the light psychoanalysts shine on the dark corners of the mind reveals any truth. I think it only reveals their own stupidity and magical thinking, so I'm surprised he even used this metaphor
@@PepesFanGirl Thank you, welcome!
Send some on Mars...
Favorite line from THE DEPARTED: "they say the Irish are immune to psychoanalysis"
K, I really did find my keys this time. What now?
I'm Irish and I confirm what Herzog is saying: psychology and psychoanalysis is a load of aul shite. Literally. Its all about sniffing the shite that comes out of our arses. In Ireland, we know that a big shite is just a natural effect of 4 or 5 pints of Guinness. If you want them analysed, take your turds to a hospital laboratory.
Something his analogy is missing is the questioning of whether what is being "illuminated" is actually there. Probably the main problem with psychology and psychoanalysis is that they reveal at least as many falsehoods as facts. So it's not so similar to illuminating a house, but rather projecting images on the wall of a darkened house and expecting those images to match what is there when you turn the lights on.
He implicitly questions that in the first clip, to be fair.
Like any science it is iterative and constantly evolving.
reminder that the replication crisis, while a big deal in every field, is especially bad in social sciences like psychology. Some studies have found upwards of 75% of all psychology studies fail to replicate. This is most often caused by what scientists term "Questionable Research Practices" as well as other problems like p-hacking. There is a 75% chance any psychology study you read is total bull, according to the experts.
@@VossstPsychoanalysis is not a science, had been debunked a long time ago and modern psychology no longer treats Freud seriously but only as a historical curiosity, a part of the “growing pains” of the natural evolution of a completely new field.
Yeah a great point. " Illuminating corners of our soul" is very different from "thinking that we are illuminating corners of our soul". Most of psychology findings (>96%) can not even be replicated. Psychology is just gaslighting.
I had a wonderful pschoannalyst that started my journey to healing my brain from severe damage. But he did not make me think anything except to question everything. Thank you sir from UNCG Student phyciatric support for students. I am sorry but i forget his name. He knows who he is if still alive.
I think a true therapist/analyst will work as hard as they can to make sure you don't NEED to keep seeing them!
It's sad that many people will dismiss psychoanalysis on the basis of Herzog's statements. In these videos Herzog builds a straw man out of psychoanalysis and then proceeds to burn it to the ground. In my opinion, he's a colossal twat.
That psychoanalysts on a plane to a stranded island line sounds like an interesting movie idea, he should have done a ‘Lord Of The Flies’, but with psychoanalysts.
Call it ‘Lord Of The Minds’ or smth like that.
How about "Flies Of The Mind"?
@@rasmuslernevall6938 Now you’re cooking.
Flies Of Mommy's Milkies
😂 Ahahaha great
We could make an epic, high fantasy variant and call it _"The Lord of the Doctorates"_
the point of psychology is not to illuminate every dark corner of the house. It's about living in the house with some degree of freedom and comfort and not to be stuck in the same room. it's not really kind, if you are already living comfortably in your house, to scoff at people trying to live comfortably in theirs.
yet, common behavior is being pathologizedd and there's a strong movemente to push *everyone* into therapy
@@ghfudrs93uuu That is utterly wrong. There is no movement that pushes people into therapy it is quite the opposite: psychiatrists and therapists are overwhelmed with patients/clients.
And to your second point: Which "common behaviors" exactly are pathologized?
@@florianmedulla
Psychologists are much more interested in middling with healthy patients than people who actually need psychological help. That's where the "everyone should go to therapy" bs comes from. And, that's what they mostly get. When they face someone with an actual pathology they are quick to refer them to someone else.
You should read the last APA report about traditional masculinity
@@ghfudrs93uuuyou are talking about other types of therapy.
You are right. But... 😅 ... the statistic shows that more than 50 percent of the treatments are a failure. I think we have to admit that psychology and therapy in the end are also just a tool of power. Sorry for my english, btw.
I started noticing people talking about therapy the same way people would talk about finding Jesus. Recommending it to everyone, etc. Not even saying it's a bad thing, just an observation.
Funny enough, Jesus is the only way out. Everything else, including psychoanalysis, is a blind alley where things go to rot and die. There is no life outside of Christ. ☦️
@spikestoyou I would say philosophy is. That could lead to a question of whether Islam, Christianity, Hinduism, etc are fundamentally true or worth following and the answer could be a liberating factor. I am a Muslim but if I had time to talk to a person about religion I would start with setting some philosophical groundwork first.
@@spikestoyou Save the sermon for the AA meeting, brother
@@mohamamdyahyaasadahmad3165 Philosophy can be a tool used to discern what is true and good but it makes no real claims as to what IS actually true and good. You don’t sound so sure that Islam beats out Hinduism, etc. I guess philosophy hasn’t been as useful as you thought? Or is this just your kneejerk reaction to hearing Christ’s name? Funny how basically all religions are valid or on the table the second someone brings up Christ, and yet Christianity is never given that same treatment. Almost like if it were true, people might actually have to confront something about themselves.
@@jabrokneetoeknee6448 Another a guy who probably stays silent whenever some other religious sect or gnostic cult gets mentioned but feels the irrepressible urge to say something when Christ’s name is invoked. I hope you’re able to find some peace before your time is up. It’s later than you think.
i could not agree more. struggling as i do with mental health problems (itself a gaslighting term), i have dealt extensively with the psychiatric community. most of them have no talent for it. to begin with, they have never experienced anything even close to the conditions they claim to know about. everything they know is learnt (often lazily) from books. secondly, their whole purpose is to help the afflicted to regain fitness to enter the workforce. this means that they are virtually incapable of acknowledging that modern existence might have something to do with all the sufffering. thirdly, they have a child's understanding of the nature of trauma. i'll prove it to you: "abuse of any kind will not be tollerrated". this is the standard line for all NHS mental health organisations. anyone who knows anything at all about trauma understands only too well that fear creates anger and violence. think of an animal backed into a corner and fighting for its life. this is the perpetual state of someone who is traumatised. they either lash out, or they completely give up hope. they may also fawn or freeze, but for the purposes of this argument let's focus on the violence. by failing to recognise anger and violence as a consequence of trauma, the psychiatric community essentially blames the sufferer for their own condition. i have seen this in a number of friends. they end up being diagnosed with conditions that make the anger the focus of attention. it means their trauma goes not only unrecognised, but untreated. needless to say, total idiocy. the only psychiatrists worth a tuppeny fuck are the ones who decry their own industry.
Nicely put. My thoughts on the matter are it's just another mechanism for dependency and control. imho, it's like religion. It's for the scared and the weak. At some point one must accept who they are and their lot in life. I have. It's quite liberating.
Very well said❤
It does not matter how one confronts their own delusions, fear, and chaos (psychoanalysis, etc)...
That they choose to do so - regardless of the form they take - is the most important point...
Psychoanalysis is one way to confront and challenge these things...
It is not wise to discredit a process whereby these things can be dealt with...
hey you're smarter than Warner hair dog
His analogy seems to imply Psychoanalysis is an attempt to cleanse/remove the darkness of the house/human psyche, but, as far as I know, the aim isn't to abolish the darkness, but to understand and ultimately integrate it into your psyche/house.
This understanding helps prevent you from being blind sided by an aspect of your personality you're unfamiliar with.
Seems like you're talking about Jung's integration of the shadow instead of psychoanalysis.
@@canti7951I don’t know, it sounds consonant with Lacan, learning to live *with* the symptom rather than futilely fighting against by denying/repressing it.
@@canti7951 Apart from Freud, Jung is the most influential and important figure of psychoanalysis. Jung's theories and the science of psychoanalysis are anything but mutually exclusive, Jungian thought is literally a school of psychoanalysis.
That's not what psychoanalysts actually do, though.
@@BookofCommonTerror But I wouldn't say they're the same thing, no? The word symptom has a sociological and even political significance that the word shadow doesn't really have. The "solution" might be similar but I don't think they work the same. Overall though, despite Jung's influence, would you really call Jung a psychoanalyst? I don't think he is.
i love WH and as a psychoanalytic therapist i find his POV as always very interesting. while it seems to me that people can benefit from analysis it's also crucial to treat the individual with great respect and some analysts are far too confident about their own capacities for insight. however i'm not sure that WH has understood that people go to analysts for help because they are suffering, not merely to illuminate corners of their psyche, and illumination is only required in as far as it might help to relieve that suffering and make the houses of their psyches more, not less inhabitable. i imagine that WH may have always found his own psychic house a pretty good place to be, sadly not the case for everybody. but in terms of his work, yes, it is absolutely vital that there are psychology-free spaces and he has provided us with many wonderful examples of these. WH, we love you even if you hate us :)
What a great comment. I agree completely.
What do you think about the idea that some significant part of the time, psychoanalysts think a subtle and not-easily-detectable physical illness which causes pain and/or leads to lots of inflammation (the cytokines can directly affect neurons like neurotransmitters) is actually some issue based on trauma or bad thought patterns or that the solution is psychoactive pills?
That's actually something that I've just gone through this last year: I had mold in my room and also have a strong dust mite allergy, went a year without removing the mold and only now (after over 10+ years really) finally got anti-allergy bedsheets and such, and over the last year my mental health was often so bad that people thought I must be on drugs or something, but turned out it was just a ridiculous amount of chronic inflammation in the lungs (the dust mite allergy made it easier for the mold to grow in my lungs) which led to tons of cytokines and large-scale but low-level pain in the large organ that is the lungs. Have now finally dealt with both the mold and the dust mite in my bed, and now over the last month it finally got way, way better, and now all the sudden I'm actually feeling comfortable for the first time in years and all those people who thought I was "weeeeeird" and "awkwaaaard" and everything over the last year actually came around to liking me quite a bit now
Well he's a filmmaker so I think his answer is mostly preoccupied with filmmaking where psychology and psychoanalysis made a storm on human soul so to speak. You'd be hard pressed to find a western movie in 21st century that isn't referencing Freud, Jung or at least some psychological concept that the author thought was novel enough to spice up his story. A lot of movies explicitly feature wise all knowing psychologists too. And if you happen to stumble on a movie that defies this the critics will still try to to map to psychoanalyst concepts, calling it bad failing at the task. for somebody like Herzog this must be frustrating to the highest degree.
This is a marvellous response. Fully agree.
WH is however right to question the benefit of casting a microscope on things like anxiety and or personal vice (things that anger us), which inflames and actually makes the anxiety and anger worse…I found this from experience.
Also there is rarely a diagnose treat protocol, like in conventional therapy … a psychologist usually waits for a fallible person to diagnose themselves and this might take years or never happen. I think that is unethical. Imagine medical doctors worked this way? There would be an uproar.
You don't want to illuminate your whole house but it's not a bad idea to turn the lights on every now and then in case you're constantly tripping over the crap you've left scattered about.
Well said.
Turning the light on, possibly; using maps made in the dark, maybe not so much.
Brilliant
I think his point (which I agree at least metaphorically) is; Leave something that you constantly trip over. Realize that you just can't figure out how to handle THAT crap. It's annoying. It hurts! In a meanwhile figure out how to fall. Eventually laugh at it and enjoy the fall. Perhaps turn the fall into a dance move at times. Now you got yourself a dance partner, made out of crap and dark. Well you got the point.
Can you sleep peacefully on your bed with lights on?
"...what upsets us about other people, reveals more about aspects of ourselves" (Carl Jung)...
The work of W.Herzog entertained me, the work of C.G.Jung enlightened me.
So...whatever, Mr. Herzog!
All you got from Herzog’s work was entertainment? That’s a bit sad.
I like both of their work. I’ll remind you that Jung isn’t exactly mainstream, certainly he wasn’t in the early 1980s. How big is the chance that a random psychoanalyst is an acolyte of Jung? Very slim. I know Herzog paints with a broad brush here, but Jung disagreed with Freud as well, and most of psychoanalysis is Freudian.
@@Vingul no need for sadness, it`s totally fine not to be impacted by Herzog`s Oevre that much ;)
@@thomasklein8559 it does make me wonder if you’ve seen very much of his stuff. I guess you will grant the rest of what I said :)
@@Vingul granted;)
Seen some of his movies and documentaries, not nearly all of it.!
@@thomasklein8559 Cool cool! I think some of his films get as near to the sublime and what he calls "ecstatic truth" as film gets.. Tarkovsky is the only one I'd place alongside him, although he's very different.
One has to ask: what is the story behind that conviction?
He foresaw dr jordan peterson
Perhaps Foucault
Narcissism.
Very psychoanalytical question
@@Wizzy678Jordan Peterson is a cognitivist, not a psychoanalyst.
To stay on the illuminated house metaphor: your unconscious will always revert back to the chaotic darkness. But for people who have a non functional house you have to illuminate briefly where the house is breaking down, fix it, then leave it to the darkness again
Exactly. Like that the fuck is actually his argument? We should not try to understand our minds and subconsciousness?
Of course you can go too far and end up OVERanalyzing everything, at which point you are just seeing through everything without actually experiencing what you arw looking at.
@@mrajsma01 thr man's point, as stated in the first moments of the vid, are that the psychoanalysts are not only woefully under qualified in this field (the field itself isnt developed enough) but they are incredibly arrogant about their position. He explains, in his view, that they are akin to brain surgeons from ancient egypt. They arent anywhere near the expertise they consider themselves to be at.
@colekter5940 Sorry for the late reply, but I guess how is Herzog certified to speak in the subject himself?
@@Motivational_Posters you dont realize this, but you're attempting a logical fallacy for thia argument by attacking his character (credentials) rather than the topic at hand. How are you, myself, or anyone else "qualified" to ponder and express opinions on anything at all? Clearly, he isnt in a position of authority, whereas he may have influenced policy or otherwise affected lives. But merely having an opinion, however strong, isnt grounds for disregarding or quieting someone. In fact, outsider opinions are important for discourse.
@@colekter5940 You're attempting to deduce a lot from my question. You could have gone with the initial point that he has a right to express his thoughts on a matter, and I don't have to necessarily agree. I simply asked what qualifies him to speak on the matter. Also, there is relevant data and known factors about the world and the human brain and body that could contribute to one's overall opinion. You are committing a fallacy yourself by reducing my question to the idea that I am "attacking" his credentials (Which he literally does himself in the video.)
It’s clear Mr Herzog’s refused in his own analysis to work through and engage with the negative transference and his repressed rage against his own father. The Oedipal drama is so utterly unresolved!
Lmao. I want to assume this is a joke.
@@Vingul it’s a joke! But…Freud said a joke diverts us from something more serious…so maybe I’m joking, but maybe also not 😉 what is Herzog displacing in the clip above….? And maybe I’m an analyst…😉
I find it quite shocking that a man as old and experienced as him just dismisses an entire field of theory and study which has been a foundation and immensely helpful for almost all mental health and trauma healing treatments we have available today. He acts like psychologists are predators who prey on clueless victims, but to many people they are the light at the end of the tunnel which directs them towards a new and healthy way of life.
In a time where there are so many distractions and people barely find time to reflect on themselves, advocating against self-illumination seems the more dangerous thing to do. Maybe he's just scared to face his own demons.
I think the way he sees psychology seems more like a generalization of his own experience with psychology and psychoanalysis.
There is a certain sector of critics who seem too eager to apply concepts of psychology and psychoanalysis to the works of artists, in order to "get" then. As an amateur artist myself, i find it quite annoying, and Herzog probably finds then annoying, too.
The annoyiance comes from the fact that, even if they are wrong or right about your work, their interpretation might influence the way the audience sees you and your work for eternity. All that you do, no matter how sublime, will be limited to the same cheap concepts of "sysiphus complex", "sublimation", "animus", no matter if they are true or not.
All that being said: Yeah, he is very wrong. Psychology is a very useful tool for general wellbeing, and we would lost a lot without it.
The good thing about psychoanalysis is that it's for the people that find ir interesting. If you don't you can just ignore it. I find it fascinating and it helps me think about things in a much more interesting way than the other schools of thought today that wish to just reduce human beings to dopamine or animal behaviouralism.
Best case scenario: you're down 50 minutes, $120 and mad at your mother.
😅 Yep and they always end it with leaving you a gaping wound.
Okay times up,go home.
@@PepesFanGirl Speaking from experience are you? There is more than just one psychoanalytical school you know, many of them have nothing to do with Freudian psychosexual drivel, nor familial trauma.
Perfect comment lol
@@transitionshotline Yes but many disagreed with Freud on a variety of issues. Look into it if you don't believe me, it's well documented.
I would have gone oxford comma on that one
I agree 1000%
I lost a beautiful wife to this disease 😅 she watched it on youtube all day, then retold it to me when i got home back from work… it all accumulated to the point i went to work to rest from her…
Remember, at the time he's initially speaking, Freudian psychoanalysis was the order of the day. It could be pretty harmful, actually.
there is a documentary about it and its aftermath called the century of the self. it outlines the relation between statecraft, advertising and media, and psychoanalysis (basically, its a psyop). it harmed noone more than freuds own family, incidentally.
If you talk with 10 psychoanalysts they will tell you 10 different things.
There are a few psychiatric concepts that work well and you can read about them online. The profession doesn't need to exist.
Indeed. Its a science of professional guessing.
@@arsonfly Lol psychiatry also also requires diagnoses and experimentation.
@@wiard If your going to build something that is the most powerful machine yet, don't you think that you would cover all angles and that the machine is balanced out to ensure that nothing unbalances its chance of survival , Your cortex is pre determined in how it views reality and someone else's cortex is grown to be the exact opposite of you
She that grew you has an internal clock, which is determined by the moon . so she that grew you knows what time of year it is
It's the same with MDs.
Psychotherapy has always been an intrinsic part of every authentic religious tradition. The problem with modern psychology is that it focuses on our darkest parts and cuts off any connection to what is above us. It horizontalizes the human psyche, when the vertical dimension is in fact essential for true psychological health.
I suppose that depends on how you define psychotherapy; I assume you're using it in a much broader sense. But that's well said. Of course Herzog is not afraid of delving into the spirit, of bringing forth a very human sense of vision and purpose, our relation to the ecstatic and the sublime -- through art -- but he doesn't "analyse". If there is "therapy" in art and storytelling, it is of an automatic, intrinsic, largely unthinking sort.
That's ramblingly formulated but I think you'll get my point.
@@Vingul I definitely use the term in a broad sense and completely agree with you that modern psychology analyzes too much and does too little. And even when it focuses on doing, it usually has no place for the divine or spiritual domain.
Well put
SO true!
Could you use words that actually mean something specific in stead of this vertical/horizontal bullshit? You're exemplifying what he doesn't like about them probably.
Nailed it. Therapy became theologized
Psychoanalysts are the priesthood of the secular state.
And theology became therapized.
@@chicklets4ever51 modern priests to confess social sins
@@noglobo Except that there's never any penance. It's all self-justification.
It is a very diverse field; you can still find radical psychoanalysts, but you can also find guys who want to integrate different kinds of therapeutic modalities and who use evidence-based treatment.
The Bear Man is one of the most poetic and brilliant documentaries about the human soul. There, Herzog acutely analyzes the protagonist's motivations, from a perspective that is very close to psychoanalysis.
This reads like parody, when you get the name of the movie weong out the gate.
I could not agree more with Werner's opinion
Where is the full interview?
The man in the rocket said I should come 🤷🏼♂️
haha virgin loser thing to say
All the "experts" have made things sooo much better
Me after my therapist diagnosed me with 10 disorders :
😂😂
I like how he calls them out on not admitting their practice is like medieval brain surgery. I find that to be very deeply true. Perhaps they are aware of the soft science nature of what they do, but want everyone to think it's far beyond that, while at the moment at least it is not.
He does have a good point. Its a very young profession, and to think they have cracked the human pysche is the arrogance of a medieval surgeon thinking they knew how the body works. In 100 years, people will be appalled with what the profession gets up to today. In many ways, it should be studied scientifically but not practised medically.
Most psychologists or counsellors ive known have the most messed up personal lives
Maybe you mean most people.
@@Omnicient.
I meant what I said
AND their kids are messed up, too.
A friend of mine studied psychology, and said that most psychology students were psychologically messed up themselves and were studying psychology to understand their own issues / to get a grasp on their own psychology.
@@lightworker2956 agreed
Psychoanalysis does not necessarily equate therapy. Psychoanalysis is just a form of therapy, and agreed with some of Herzog’s points. I like giving clients more of space to forge their path while learning things about the brain, behaviors, etc.
This is exactly what I keep saying: people started feeling mentally ill when society started calling them mentally ill.
I've talked to 4 different psychologists and one online program dealing with behavior mostly dealing with depression. Two therapists were largely just someone to talk to with few if any insights or suggestions. Two were totally incompetent but nice. The online program dealing with biofeedback, meditation, and behavior was better, but still so so. Reading on my issues and staying busy were far more effective. Therapy is a never ending circle jerk for not all perhaps, but many or most.
this was 1982. i think it has become much better, backed up with more sience and studies. Psychotherapy helped me a lot.
Yeah follow the science 😅
It’s actually gotten worse. The hubris alone from these fallible individuals is enough to make me physically ill. Maybe that’s the game plan. At least it would take my mind off of my emotional struggles.
What a man. What a talent
My #1 fave
He's an overrated hack who is completely off base with this one. But each to their own.
@@simonostermann5284Psychology as a whole isn’t science, so I’m not too sure what he was off base about. Psychologists want to call it a “replication crisis”, but in all reality it’s just that none of them can recreate any of their results.
Meaning that last part of the scientific method, where the hypothesis is proven true, is skipped by these “scientists”. It truly is like brain surgeons in Ancient Egypt, they hardly understand what they’re trying to fix.
The last few lines of this clip clarify the whole meaning.
It's not so much that the field of psychology or the practice of psychoanalysis are inadequate in their ability to reveal truth, it's that humans require some amount of mystery and ambiguity to function at all.
This is clearly debatable, but seems pretty obvious to me. I don't think anyone actually wants to know the full picture. Which probably isn't on the menu anyway.
Ayyee, you're monetized bro?
Wel, i may just have to watch ALL your Content now , could be enough for a coffee XD
Thanks again and again, for all of it !
Haha, well thanks very much, but I haven’t monetised it, though I could. I think they might just place more ads on my stuff if I do.. and I can’t stand ads, meself. Guess I’ll just go to work to get money 🤣 thank you for the support man! Appreciate it.
@@Vingul im not watching the Ads then lmao!
I will make an effort to watch more though, It's a nice change (your Content) from my regular Blk-pill routine aha \0 Appreciate YOU Brother.
@@cammo777 Cheers, I do try to make this channel a counterweight to that, though both are needed (not to actually be blackpilled but you know - I indulge as well).
You’re one of the guys who has been around the longest so it’s good to see you drop by from time to time. Not that everyone who’s around necessarily leave comments all the time (appreciated regardless).
o7 brother
@@Vingul lol I really should be out doing acktivism instead of getting fried by 60Ghz mm mw frqncies in my house but bah, lets watch videos, and streams, more videos it is a bit sad tbh ahaa.
but i am enjoying The BEst of The best so there;s that o7 Chat soon Brother TC !
I hate the way other people are armchair psychologists saying this person has trauma,that person is a narcissist etc.
Why you hate that, and not hate that a person who is an expert in cinema but NOT in psychology (so the very definition of an armchair psychologist) blames an entire category of professionals as a disease.
@Jhost90 Because it is quackery. It is like a modern religion everyone has blind faith in.
@@overman2306 you do know there are thousands of professionals and scientists questioning their theories every minute, right?
@@Jhost90 That's another thing that I don't like, i.e. just believing something because a scientist said it.
@@overman2306 Again, no one "believes", people look, follow and test facts every minute.
You're the only one acting like a pursued fanatic here.
Everynow and then I see those obscure artists and their takes on society and their alienation from its dogma, I feel these are the only ones that could really say it as it is!
I like his face, more human than a lot of Hollywood types.
Tom Cruise was basically called a madman for saying the same thing on Oprah 20 years ago
Yeah well he also thinks disease is caused by people being inhabited by "body thetans" sent here from a galactic overlord named Xenu who lived 75 million years ago so he's not exactly my go-to expert on whether something is legit or not.
Suspicion of psychology is the only redeeming feature of Scientology, and the only reason they attack psychology is because THEY want to be doing the mind control.
That’s why Herzog was in Jack Reacher
I’d trust a psychologist over a Scientologist lol
@@kentkrempley6076 I would trust no one
Man is the most thoroughly studied species on the planet, not for the benefit of all mankind but for personal gain of a select few.
What is the context? What was the interview all about?
Hey man, I saw your previous comment and been meaning to reply -- I'm uploading the full documentary right now, will give you the link in about 45 minutes.
@@Vingul Thanks so much 🙏💪
@@Jonathan-ru9zl you're welcome -- it's just up now, there isn't really much more of that precise interview, but here's the full episode: th-cam.com/video/Eny16tyOiFc/w-d-xo.htmlsi=UDH_EdNd2Snme4pf
Also somehow have worked their way into the legal system, being able to deem someone as sane or not and having that take a legal president in their life seems short sighted and wrong to me.
I agree with what Tony Sopranos mother said about psychiatrists
th-cam.com/video/EULynGtVskU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=3I7WWc3vMF24ZRgK
that was a fictional character who was written to be cartoonishly mean. hope this helps
@@BBBJOT I haven't seen The Sopranos, but screenwriters often put true statements in the mouths of horrible characters precisely in order to ridicule those true statements.
@@Vingul Awh man you have to watch a few Sopranos clips. Hysterical.
Watch the one with Tony's daughters b!ack boyfriend.
@@WakaWaka2468 I've seen quite a few clips but only seen the first two episodes in full (had them on VHS lol). Been meaning to check it out properly forever though. Thanks for the reminder.
If you're here and you're posting about how actually, you've been very helped by your psychologist, I think that's great, go ahead and continue that, carefully.
There's a very fine line between understanding how the abuse you endured affects you so that you might put an end to the cycle, and staring so deeply into the abyss between the cracks of your own broken pieces that you don't even realize you've fallen between them.
Werner strikes me as the kind of person who is fully aware of how dangerous the edge can be. An artist who possessed the presence of mind to anchor himself before peering over.
I was thinking this would be some rationalistic twaddle, but I find it wiser than I anticipated. I think this sentiment may genuinely help me.
Good to hear, as you can guess from that second clip his films are rather based on impulses that aren't easily categorisable than they are rationalistic. Like "Herz aus Glas", a beautiful film in my opinion. Or "Lessons of Darkness", which reimagines the oil well fires in Kuwait in 1991 through a sort of strange sci-fi lens, hah -- elevating it to much more than a news story, to put it mildly. I shouldn't assume that you are totally new to Herzog, of course. But here are some other clips of him/his films that I've uploaded in case you're interested: th-cam.com/play/PLizFH7ZFCtglpsC6hoBMd6ZBrUaLrMTB3.html
@@Vingul Oh, very nice. I've been only vaguely familiar with his work for the longest time, but I've recently developed an interest in him. Thank you for the recommendations!
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Cool! Hope you'll enjoy some of his work if you check it out. Those two I mentioned are relatively "obscure" btw.. you've probably heard of some of the more well known films like Fitzcarraldo, Aguirre or Nosferatu (not to mention his many documentaries). Might be just as well to start with one of those.
@@Vingul It does seem intriguing. I recall my father has a DVD copy of Fitzcarraldo (or at least used to), I'll ask him for it.
@@robinrehlinghaus1944 Sweet.
Money money money. The purpose is not to cure but to create a life long patient.
People who go to therapy never get "fixed" so I am generally critical of that whole thing.
He contradicts himself. Argument one against psychoanalysis is that it's ignorant and overestimates its abilities. Argument two is that it's abilities are too potent and threaten to make the human soul uninhabitable through over-illumnation. These are mutually contradictory arguments.
He's implying it's a false illumination, rather than a 'light of reason'.
@@tonycairns6728Then the analogy doesn't make much sense
@@erikottema2620 If he was implying it was a TRUE illumination - then the analogy might not make sense. He obviously has a healthy contempt for psychoanalysis, however.
@@tonycairns6728 Can you explain what his point is? I'm genuinely curious. There are obvious flaws to Freudian psychology, but I don't see how they apply to the analogy
@@erikottema2620 He's already explained perfectly clearly in the clip.
4yrs of psychoanalysis has shed light on many dark areas, other areas were lightened later for me. However it has also shown that my family and many friends were somewhat toxic. I’ve even become more solitary and detached as relationships don’t feed or support an unfortunate need for companionship.😢
People are profoundly flawed and disappointing. I’ve learned over my life to love myself and not depend on anybody for all my happiness.
Over the years I’ve had to cut toxic people from my life including friends and a family member.
I recently had to terminate all communications with a friend who made demands on me and attacked me randomly for no reason because he became angry at the world going through a divorce.
He actually demanded that I cut myself from a mutual kind generous friend because he didn’t like him and said I couldn’t be his friend if I hung out with him.
He also attacked his siblings and people who were kind to him. He became a complete jerk and was proud of it (he said he became somebody he really was without any insight)
I've never understood Herzog's abject rejection of psychoanalysis, except to read as a symptom of his own ongoing analysis. It's like a painter deciding to arbitrarily negate the color yellow from his/her palette. You might not like yellow, but if you mix it with blue you get green. So it has potential. As a film director, and as an advocate of lock-picking and document forgery, I would have expected Werner to be more open on this front.
Herzog's "shadow" to put it in Jungian terms, is on full display here.
To say that his rejection of psychoanalysis is somehow indicative of a possible defect (or some deeper psychological proces) in the psyche of Mr. Herzog (that he is unaware of) I think is unfair. It's a move psychoanalysist often make, where they reinterpret your 'real' or 'unconciouss' motives. If someone says such things about you, there's nothing you can say, since you yourself don't have access to this 'deeper layer'. It's an unfalsifiable claim. It's a logical superweapon that allows you to always have the last word and to be the final arbiter on the psyche of another person. I think it's best to limit this type of thinking or at least be very careful with it. Sometimes you might be right, but like I said it's not a nice or fair thing to do to another person (unless they ask you to of course).
Because it is quackery. Most people believe it with blind faith.
Your art analogy is such nonsense it's hard to know where to begin. Artists choices are often arbitrary yet not for childish Reasons like not liking a color. It could be about adventure, challenge, a minimal palette.
Stick to what you know.
@@30yearsoldiam1 "Artists choices are often arbitrary" yeah, and? Your statement has no bearing on the subject. No frame of reference. You're like a child who wanders in to the middle of a movie...
I totally understand Herzog's logic (being a fan of his films helps to understand even more of what he's saying here!). Still, of course, he's looking at psychoanalysis with the "at its worst" measuring stick: at its worst, all a psychologist does is make a patient talk about their worst trauma over and over, without real improvement, just mulling over and over (almost like reliving it at the moment) during the therapy session. That's when "the light that shines bright all through the house", as Herzog expressed, doesn't really help anybody. But that's because there are different types of therapy that can help overcome trauma without using the traditional Freudian method (EMDR therapy, for example) and psychoanalysis is not a "for everyone" solution, no matter what some therapists might about it. But, at its best, the psychoanalysis session is very close to being that famous "talking cure" they originally called it, because it helps a person simply by letting them talk about their issues, doubts, etc. And just that, to be able to sit with someone for an hour or so, and talk about what's happening inside our minds, is an ENORMOUS help to realize that at least half of the things we have coursing through our brain -or more- are merely products of our self-doubt, our imagination, our paranoia or our crooked way of looking at the world through a solitary perception. At its best, psychoanalysis also helps anyone to feel less alone, contained (at least in part), maybe even safe... because it really helps so many people to "get out" of their own labyrinth of a mind once in a while, and look at things in another perspective... and if you can't look, at least you are heard (a luxury not everyone has in our current times) by someone. Is not for everyone, as I've said, but it helps (and sometimes saves) a lot of people from drowning in the darkness of their own minds... and that's always a good thing because sometimes the darkness is too much for a single "house of the mind" and you DEFINITELY need some light in some corners, just not all of them. My dear and admired Werner Herzog can say this and so much more about psychoanalysis because he deals with his inner darkness, thoughts, and interests through art and films. And to me, that is perfect enough just for him. But for the rest of the people on the planet who are NOT a master filmmaker or artistic genius like Herzog, sometimes a good therapy (traditional or otherwise) is worth a lot, and it is helpful like you wouldn't believe it.
I mean he’s absolutely right, speaking as someone who has gone through a decade of therapy. The goal of a therapist is to make sure you conform to the norm and don’t upset the apple cart. It’s sad that in our world it’s much more convenient to “fix” broken people instead of fixing the world that broke them in the first place. If every broken person was ironed out and fixed, there would be no interesting people in the world, no “characters”.
Characters in this world are always gonna be there no matter what, and the goal of a therapist is definitely not trying to make you conform with to the norm, but to make you understand yourself and your relationship with the world a little bit better (that's it if they're not bad therapists and the premise of their work is this improvment they can help you achieve in your life).
It seems like you didn't have a positive and rewarding experience with therapy (maybe you did, I really don't know just by reading this comment) and that is very frustrating when you have been doing it for such a long time, but don't give up on working on yourself and being a better human.
Romanticizing people like they're interesting because of a certain trait or quality is not healthy to you or them - also nobody is ever "fixed" or "ironed out", no matter what kind of person you are, and there's nothing more to it really, that's just existence.
Recognizing it for what it is can help you gain some well-being and satisfaction with how life goes, I think.
@@henrico909 Glad you said this, even if no one listened. Completely agree.
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There is a movie called "12 monkeys" wherein a time traveler gets institutionalized by psychiatrists. One of the Drs therein admits that they are the equivalent of a new priest class.
Interesting. I've seen that film, but quite a few years ago now. Had it on VHS.
@@Vingul it's worth watching again. It hits different nowadays
@@violenceislife1987 I can imagine! I’ve heard/seen it referenced a few times in interesting contexts, like your comment.
Psychoanalysis is useful. I tend to think people are well off reading some psychoanalytic material and using it as a means of reflection. Beyond traditional psychoanalysis and its tendency to seek illumination and discovery, and beyond the identification and assimilation of the "shadow", one may discover a respect for and recognition of as yet unseen shadows, and the shadows of shadows, and the unknowable, unseeable, undetectable aspects of psyche. Also useful is the recognition that psychoanalysis is never "done". One is never fully or completely analyzed. We should dispense with notions that humans are perfectable and that a reasonable aim of psychoanalysis should consist of a linear progression with a definite end point in which someone is fixed or whole or in some way perfect.
Herzog is the most germanic man since Arminius.
Brilliant commentary. Thank you for sharing this!
Carl Jung sees it completely opposite. I personally agree with Carl Jung.
Yet Jung disagreed with Freud, and most of the field as we know it is derived from Freud's theories. I take Jung seriously -- Freud I have little regard for.
@@Vingulit’s a discipline building upon itself. It doesn’t matter who started it, but it matters who improved it
@@taaayooos I don’t really know the field well enough to have very strong opinions either way, but one could make analogies to shaky foundations etc etc.
Sometimes you just have to tear the whole thing down and start anew.
@@Vingul Except that most modern psychological thought owes an enormous debt to Freud and the sensitivity with which he asked key questions about the way humans think, feel, and develop. You would be a better critic of his conclusions (many of which Freud himself changed his mind about) if you were better read about the field of psychoanalysis. Your responses betray a deep lack of awareness of the field and its history. I'd recommend reading Steven Mitchell's "Freud and Beyond" as an accessible primer of PA thought.
@@Cleveland_Rocks I’m sure he had a deeper mind than I, a layman, can sometimes think. What I find «problematic» is the extent to which it seems that Freud has projected his own, seemingly rather twisted, psyche onto the whole of humanity, and through his teachings these quirks have been manifested in the institutions. Take his strange focus on carnal desire between immediate family members, for one thing.
For another, let me first say that I know people with serious childhood trauma, but it seems to me that his «psychologising» has led people to focus over-much on this aspect, even actively searching for trauma when there isn’t really much to go on and blowing up rather mundane things from their childhood in an attempt to explain their current strife. I’ve experienced this in people I know, and I see it as quite unhealthy and part of Freud’s legacy.
If psychoanalysis is what he says it is, then I am also against it.
Perhaps the best we analysts can hope for is to be charlatans who nonetheless offer a situation in which someone can find means to suffer less in their life, and even be happy to be alive.
The problem he describes reaches far deeper than only Psychoanalysis. His critique should aim at the whole "Enlightenment" project , of which Psychoanalysis - at least in its more Freudian branch - is but a more recent branch. He is tapping into one of the core issues of the "Modern Era" itself. His metaphor of the uninhabitable house in this perspective is merely more than the Romantics critique of the Enlightenment Movement and therefore comes with both, the plausibility and truth as well as the pitfalls already worked out in that discourse.
If you hate the modern era so much there are still places that have rejected the enlightenment. Of course you'd have to convert to their religion and live under the whims of a monarch or supreme leader. Something you probably don't want to do because you romanticize a past you were not alive to experience.
His analogy with the "uninhabitable house" is absurd in the context he gave though. What _he_ is saying with that analogy, is that he'd rather live in filth and disease, as long as he can be dissonant and ignorant. _That_ is the rational reality of it, regardless of whether you'd agree with his other points or not.
@@SebHaarfagre I don't think so. There is a difference between a home to live in (a place that can be comfortable and uplifting precisely because it allows for some idionsyncrasies and messiness) and a filthy, disordered place of anxiety.
In my interpretation he is not advocating for the latter, but rather against the other extreme: which is a place that is perfectly ordered and perfectly clean, but in all its cleanness and orderliness becomes hostile to the messy realities of life.
He's wrong about one thing. It's not that psychoanalysts or psychologists want to analyse people, it's that people desperately want a solution for problems that can't be remedied with a pill or surgery.
One important thing I learned from therapy (something I will never do again) is that people can only handle so much negative emotion at once. When you start to dig up every traumatic thing that’s ever happened to you, it’s impossible to handle and it sends you down the path of a mental breakdown. I would never recommend therapy to anybody and I believe it to be incredibly dangerous for people’s mental health.
Every kid who went to therapy (at my school) didn't get any better.
Same with chiropracters coincidentally.
@@MerlynMusicmanThey’re both hacks.
Retraumatization is a common thing on verbal therapies like psychoanalysis. That's a sign of a bad therapy praxis. Such cases must be treated by a specialist trauma therapist who understands the arousal threshold that the client is capable of experience without becoming overwhelmed. That "mental breakdown" is like a tool that your mind uses to protect you from disfuntionally stored memories, the trauma. It can't be handled by the mind all at once. Check out for EMDR therapy, which carefully access and target traumatic memories and proceeds to process them with bilateral stimulation. Oh, and I really think psychoanalysis worsen the client's problems, it is an indirect form of blaming the client for what has happened in his/her life as a result of not offering a real psychological solution. A bad pyschotherapy praxis in itself. I'm sad to see so many people giving up on healing because of bad clinical experiences.
I love the metaphor about the house. I might steal that
Not just Psychoanalysis , I am suspicious of Therapists as well.
I am a therapist
@@YarrBr0 You are a suspect
@YarrBr0 What a weird and empty response. It's almost as if you've read the comment and thought "hey, I'm a therapist" and accidentally typed your thought in in the comment section.
and doctors, and lawyers, and teachers
I mean, he's not wrong about illumination. I don't hide any of my dark corners and I spend most of my time alone. That's what fearlessness does to a person
Psychos analysis
I fail to see the point of his argument. “It’s bad to illuminate the corners of the human mind, because if the corners of a house were illuminated the house would be inhabitable.” It makes no sense to me. I think the corners of the human mind should be looked at because it gives us a better understanding of the origins of evil and malevolence and in turn a heightened recognition of that same darkness that is in us all.
Isn't it a zen principle to shine light on the dark continent within us? Love his work but I disagree. Interesting perspective though I guess
Life itself is therapy.
I one time saw three therapists at once. Told them the same exact things. All 3 said 3 different things to me to do or cope. I stopped seeing them. Then I found one who believed in Jung and Campbell and The Heroes Journey of rebirth. I stick with him. Changed my life.
That first part was filmed in won of Werner's psycho analysis sessions
What a facile and opinionated speech
Mr. Herzog is one of the few true voices of reason.
He was before his time. Psychoanalysis has largely been discarded at this point. A few still let themselves be fooled by it by several sessions a week for years to decades.
Thank you for saying the simple truth
I agree. This THING messed up my daughter's Self esteem and confidence and took years to recover!!
And who messed up your daughter in first place, that was in need of external help I wonder
Lol that one he ain't gonna answer
Hmm sorry to break it to you but it really smells like it was you who messed things up, love.
Therapists have no incentive to cure their patients, every incentive to make them believe they need more therapy
He doesn't understand psychoanalysis. Psychoanalysis doesn't want to illuminate every corner of a person's soul, or whatever - just the particular repressed memory or memories that are causing someone debilitating distress and affecting their quality of life. The rest can be left well alone.
repressed memories don't exist. Patient constructs them to please the therapist.
@@mentalitydesignvideo Psychoanalysis isn't just about repressed memories though so even if they don't exist, doesn't mean psychoanalysis is somehow not useful for many
@@mentalitydesignvideothey exist as I understand them, lets say there is trauma likely during childhood, the individual simply tries their best not to relive or remember, then as the years pass they are forgotten, unresolved, abandoned, repressed.
@@mentalitydesignvideo Is that conclusion based on your own experience?
@@rogerdavidson6236 partly on my experience of having a complete memory going back to the age of about 20 months (apart from events that put me in a state akin to knockout which blocks formation of memories -- if these events are presented as memories, they are most likely reconstructions, such is the neurophysiology) and also research into false memories, memory implantation (which is partially what happens in psychoanalysis) and general malleability of memory.
Or, as the president of the APA admitted in the 60's, "Psychoanalysts always see what they want to see and patients will unfailingly provide them material in the form that fit psychoanalyst's ideological affiliation."
That's exactly what Jung criticizes: people are afraid to look, to spread light on these matters. And to avoid it, that is really the problem.
Using his analogy, it's like leaving the cellar always closed, unaware of what or who is inside.
I like Herzog.
Interesting comments for sure. However I wonder if the problem with psychoanalysis (and I am guessing he means psychotherapy) is not that it illuminates the entire psyche, but to the contrary it restricts the psyche to the parameters of the particular theory of psychoanalysis. In other words, when going through psychotherapy, there is a chance that you will just be looking to bring the contents in your psyche in alignment with some theory. I had a professor in college who used to call psychotherapists "the new priests". Think he may have hit the nail on the head.
Agreed! I believe that applies to ALL areas of life. Once you are no longer aware of the inherent boundaries of the theory within which you operate, you are trapped by dogma.
@@laluna5548 I am not going to claim that I know all schools of psychotherapy or that they couldn't be of some use in a particular situation, but have you ever noticed how most people going through psychotherapy talk exactly the same way?! I mean, you can almost predict their responses. It's rather scary. Now if someone is going through a trauma and they need A DOGMA to get them through the night, then I won't criticize that, but it is important to get that it is a convenient fiction to be made use of and disposed of. However, when it becomes a long-term lifestyle, then that's a problem, I think.
@@priapsus Some of this sounds like observer bias to me. Maybe many people who go to therapy are simply not vocal about it at all? I believe it is an extremely complex matter. Not surprisingly, the biggest predictor of therapy success is not the psychotherapy school but the relationship with the therapist. If they are not dogmatic, neither will most of their clients be. Those are my 2 cents :)
Anyone asking themselves how Elon ended up watching this video?
He has NPD and does't want to go to therapy, so now therapy is the enemy not his own issues.
AI
Yes. Why did he look at him? Or was it time to go to psychiatrists?
He watched the news in Moscow and said WTF. Probably he misunderstood Biden's condition as a result of analysis given therapists can be seriously biased and unprofessional especially lately in the US. Insanity is ruling unfortunately and it's not because of bad professionals worldwide. Probably the United States are suffering badly.
@@jamessderbyI would say he’s doing fine judging by his accomplishments. Not sure what a psychologist would exactly have to offer him. Werner Herzog nailed it a long time ago.
Trembling under the bed, guessing monsters and ghosts in the dark is something much more exciting. This way you will never feel lonely.
But some people need a home to work in. And they can cope with being there alone.
Equating psychology with psychoanalysis is like equating physics with the nuclear bomb. Ignorance and poor judgment.
I think it's fair to say the two overlap to a pretty large degree, and to talk about both in the same breath is absolutely fine. I think he's pointing to a wider "analytical" mindset. Herzog is more intuitive. He's a poet.
In the first clip, he says "psychology *and* analysis" (not "psychology-analysis" or whatever you may be implying). In the second clip he's talking specifically about psychoanalysis.
@@Vingul Every field is a huge ocean. Most of psychology is not about therapy, and most of therapy is not about psychoanalysis.
"I swear, gentlemen, that to be too conscious is an illness"
The Underground man, Notes from the Underground by Fyodor Dostoevsky
Nice one. Keen to read it, a friend kindly gave me an edition but it's in Norwegian and I'd prefer an English translation. Some day, perhaps.
@@Vingul I have the one from Signet Classics, 2004 version. Penguin Books also published it. They are still available. You can also read it online at the OpenLibrary or Gutenberg.
One can also hide things in that darkness that they do not wish to see. Sweep it under the rug, as it were.
Therapist told me I'm bothered, crying for help.
The rapist told me don't bother crying for help.
That joke just doesn't land. You'll find one that does.
@@30yearsoldiam1
Thanks Sgt.Obvious.