Great video Jim!!! I got four bakelites this week and I just tested them at the range. Holy cow, I love them now!!! I was able to tell what generation mine are thanks to your video. I have three 3rd gen ridgeback Tula's and one 4th gen flatback Tula Thanks man.
Great video and info, to my knowledge and info I have gathered up, there are 6 different generation of Bakelite Ak 47 mags and that’s excluding the 40 round Bakelite , there were both Tula/Izhmash production for every Gen .. .. I will be making a video once I am able to get my hands on all the Gens ..
For cosmoline I just put them under a heat lamp and wipe off, if dirty oily or muddy I take them apart and wash with dawn just like dishes then dry with a fan, make sure to rub a light coat of clp or oil or the parts before assembly
Nice explanation. I'm a bit of a mag collector, but I apparently need to invest more time into it. Its amazing even in just focusing on AK's there is a lifetime worth of collecting involved.
+ZMB KLR I really need to do some more research myself, I tried to make it clear I was showing what I had and how I understand it. I never got the Fluer De Lis or Rare Colored (10) or other $200 AK mags but I ended up with a bunch of different countries and styles just by visual inspection. The Safe Arms Defense Journal from more than a decade ago can teach you enough to recognize many of them, the Buddy Hinton Collection will give you pictures but not much text. I am thankful I only got two bayonets so I didn't get into that twisted ass world of 1000 + variations, mags are much easier!
I've often wondered if those supposed Sanitized Magazines aren't just some weird East German Bakelite Magazine.. I've heard lots of things! As I'm sure you have, All sorts of people's guess' at what they are looking at. All the collectors here like of course, Mint, No scratches, Cyrillic marked both and even all three arsenals there actually. And of course the Ink stampings. And the O T K, whatever that stands for?. Great Vid.
Great info on Bakelite mags. Local gun shop said he was going to get a few Cerakote AK mags in a Bakalite color/texture. Should be interesting when they get here. I hope to grab one and post a video when they do. Aloha!
I love the short top Tula ridgebacks that I bought, just wish I could find more for a reasonable price. I use these and my East German metal surplus mags exclusively now.
+TR-8R They are still fighting battles and wars with em, saw a video out of Syria last week and Kurdish Police forces had multiple countries, styles and types of 47s with a huge assortment of mags but some guys were still running bakelites :)
+TRUNKBACK JIM I love mine so I can't blame people for using them still. Are there any differences in quality between generations (specifically between Gen 3 and Gen 4 for both Izzy and Tula)?
TR-8R I don't think there is any advantage to either factory or ridged vs smooth. I have one in the rotation of range mags for history sake but most of mine won't get used unless very bad things happen. I would avoid the last generation(s?5 or 5 and 6?) without the metal in the lips, cheap export mags of inferior quality for sure.
I have been looking for these, they started showing up in the last couple years, AIM dumped a mixed lot on the market in 2013 and people got these. Generation wise its hard to say as they have been reported with and without the spine, some speculate these were made recently due to bakelite values in america but I tend to beleive the Export Magazine angle, its reported by the late 70s many of the molds were no longer viable and made these to sell extremely cheaply to foreign governments that bought AKs from them. People have gotten all three of the common russian floorplates on these as well from what I understand. Seems more ridgebacks than flat backs being reported as well. Thanks for watching, I gotta get a better lighting setup but more AK mag videos to come.
+Idea Called Freedom its a start, just enough to be dangerous, read all these comments and you will figure out the stuff I didn't know or understand when I made the video. Thanks for stopping by.
i have a ridge back 30rd bakelite 3rd generation bakelite magazine that does not have metal in the lips. but does in the front and rear lugs. i have never seen one like this, as i just received it. anyone know what the deal is? why they would make a ridge back with no reinforcements in the lips?
Its talked about in the comments, a fifth generation perhaps? it appears there are ridge and smooth back without metal in the lips, some think they were export mags for foreign government sales, some think they were made in modern times but I believe the export mag theory is more viable. The fact that they did not show up until 2006 or so in the US makes people buy into the modern production thing. I always stop to look at bakelite at guns shows so maybe someday I will actually bump into one, I don't actively seek 47 mags anymore but still buy one from time to time. My video VR to Dead Winter has the bulgarian and chinese parts of my 47 mag collection shown if you like 47 mags check it out.
They have become a cult thing and are getting harder to find, gunbroker usually has some, you can always find them at The AK files forum sales page. I have paid as little as $8(1998) on up to $125 for the rare ones, most people are between $40-50 at this point. The molot 40 rounder and the Chinese being the most sought after, as high as $200 in the present market
Cool video, thanks for sharing! I recently bought a 40 round bakeite magazine exactly like yours but no metal in the feed lips. I'm guessing it's an older version. I'm going to run it with my range mags to see how it holds up.
Thanks for video. I recently picked up a bakelite that doesn't seem to match any of yours. It's a long top and the notches are close together, but it's a ridge back. Any ideas?
+jmpriester1 Sorry I did not make it clear all the long tops are ridge backs, the close together notches would indicate its a Tula manufactured first generation bakelite.
Do all the bakelites come with the 10 round limiter? I received one the other day that doesn't have a limiter but it's my first izzy. All my others are Tula and all have the limiter.
+Tim Harleydude No, most do not have them, with that being said there are millions with limiters, we have no idea how many bakelites were made by the three companies, Stories of Tula making them at a rate of 90,000 per month do not seem unreal considering soviet doctrine at the time.
They are getting harder to find so that is probably about right if your gonna keep it nice, if you plan on using it you can usually score the run of the mill used ones in the $40 range now.
I see no difference in the performance, Izzy Long Tops are the Hardest to find and are a premium over Tula longtops by $20-50 depending on how long its been since one was for sale, on the later generations Tula demands a $5-10 premium just because some people only collect Tula stuff which of course competes with the Bakelite only collectors in that segment as well as the people that have guns built on Tula Kits.
Finally I have found someone with the same interest as me in AK 47 bakelite mags! Your video is great! I have most of the mags that you have. The ones you describe as 3rd generation from Tula & Izmash have a few variations of follower and floorplate to consider!
+Richard Williams Sorry for the late reply, I just found a couple comments. Many collectors frown on the idea of floorplate variations being legit as they are so easy to change and many bakelites saw duty, the floorplates often got damaged in handling, storage and shipping as well and were replaced at will, sometimes even in america by the importer just to make them look better, I bet Century could buy a whole pallet of brand new surplus floorplates for $200 in 1990. I got a Pakistani Fakelite and a Norinco bakelite I need to show sometime.
Very cool! Where did you find the information on the AK47 mags? I did a few videos on the 5.45 x 39 mags and found some of the history on them. When I looked for the history on the 7.62 x 39 mags I didn't find much info at all. Also on the 5.45 x 39 Molot 45 round Bakelite mags some of them didn't have the Molot marking. They say that these were contracted to Bulgaria and didn't have the markings. I'm not sure if that's true with the 7.62 x 39 40 round Molot mags though. I started collecting AK mags a little while back and I love the history behind them. I just started getting some of the Tula and Izhmash Bakelite 7.62 x 39 mags to add to my collection. I'm a big fan of the Bakelite mags lol. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the share, the best article I have ever found came from the Small Arms Defense Journal on AK Magazine Identification but it only covers the 47s and is older with some left out, Buddy Hinton is the king of the AK mag collectors, this bakelite history as I understand it has come from photos he made 10 or 15 years ago. More AK 47 mag videos to come
TRUNKBACK JIM Thanks for the info I'll check it out. I'm looking forward to more AK47 mags videos from you too. I wanted to have as much history on my mag videos as possible. Some of the AK74 mags I've looked at getting are close to $200 each! The current issue Russian mags seem to be the pricey ones just because they haven't made it to the secondary market like the older surplus mags have. Thanks again for the info.
+Jalen Byon Sorry for the late reply I just saw your comment, Its generally accepted that the molds were getting worn and the edges were getting sloppy so shaving them off smooth was the easiest way to keep making them.
I never got any of them, most of my bakelites were bought a long time ago before those were really on the scene. They didn't show up until around 08 or so from what I hear. I have seen a few locally but can't pay the $50 pretty much all bakelites are demanding at gun shows around here now.
Thanks, I learned a lot since making this, guess I didn't know as much as I thought I did but at least I showed off my different types. If you like 47 mags check out my VR to dead winter, its the chinese and bulgarian variations I have collected.
I like the 40 round mag! Both Gens 1 and 2 are very Cool as well! I have seen both marked and unmarked 40 rounders. The Molot 74 magazine with the Shield and Star make me think they, the 40 Round mags, should have the same mark. But that's just me. Great Vid!
Quiett55 Yeah I have never seen a 40 that could verified as having been sanitized, they are either marked or not marked but that won't stop the argument from going on, people argue over which style is more rare and which style is older, a collector I know with over 500 bakelites including more than 100 long tops thinks the marked are older but the unmarked are more rare so until someone figures it out we will just keep speculating. There are really only two things the collector community agrees on, Molot made both styles, if you can afford it buy them when you see them as they are hard to find in the US.
A new video showing the collection and going over the information again with added knowledge would be great if you could! This video is great for people wanting to learn and just admire the different versions.
I would really like to do my whole collection eventually, if you like more than bakelite check out my VR to Dead Winter where I show my mags from China and Bulgaria.
+TRUNKBACK JIM I checked the other videos out! Very clear and informative. Where do you get your Bakelites from? What would you advise collecting vs using? And how much is a good deal on any of these?
Tom Williams I only use one in my rotation of AK range mags but would consider any of the metal feed lip ones Duty mags and good to go if every needed. It seems they have settled in at $30-50 depending on the condition for gen 3 or 4, the long tops are usually $70 and up and the 40 rounders are $115 and up. Most of my bakelites came from local gun shows back when you could get them cheap. Beating the bushes at gun shows and local shops is still the best option as someone might take a little less if you offer and some people don't know what they got. One youtuber found a norinco bakelite in a misc bin at his local gun shop for $20, With Gunbroker you could build a collection quick but its gonna cost you. AK Files Forum has a buy and sell section where you can find some great stuff but no real deals to be had. I always look at Armslist, don't be afraid to call a guy and ask him to seperate the mags from the gun if he has something cool. He can always go buy a couple magpuls or tapcos to go with the gun.
uhg, this video needs an update badly. There's at least 12 types of 7.62x39 AG-4C mags produced by the USSR, and Izhevsk produced several generations of mag before Tula came along with their lone long-top design. No way can Tula bakes be described as 'gen 1' if we're trying to keep anything in chronological order.
+jason broome Longtop bakelite, ridge back bakelite and smooth back bakelite might be getter to communicate en mass because some people call all longtops generation 1 instead of allowing for two generations of longtops. If your talking to a guy that goes by Buddy Hinton nomenclature it is indeed a generation three LOL.
Longtops you want to buy any Izzy you can, they are much more rare than the Tula, as far as normal bakelites they made millions of both so most people don't care either way, they have the same value although you will see many more NIB looking Tula mags then you will Izzy ones in my experience
That seems high for 74, I am not well versed in them, some are worth way more than that but seem to run $30-40 here locally. jesticearms(dot)com usually has a decent supply, check em out. 47 wise it seems its a sellers market, I haven't seen one under $40 here in a long time, last show there was an old guy with one for $40 it was dirty and a little rusty, a 47 collector I know recently let go of some of his hoard, izzy ridgebacks in brand new condition, the ones with perfect stamps and proof marks were $90 and the rest $75. AK Files has a marketplace section, I never had one bad transaction either selling or buying. Jestice used to sell tons of 47 bakelite but I haven't seen any in a while, that sight should be checked weekly because you never know what you are gonna find, today he has some slabside metal izzys listed, haven't seen any of them in a couple years locally.
The way I understand it they were made as export mags for Russia to offer as a cheaper option to sell to foreign countries that bought AKs from them. It would make sense that as the russian surplus bakelites started to dry up the importers would bring them in from foreign countries the russians sold to thus the somewhat late appearance, you would be hard pressed to find any mention of a metal less version prior to 2007 or 2008.
I bought two of these Gen 3 (Tula markings) at a VA gun show today, for $140. Pristine condition and they were kept well preserved in oil/preservative…but I wondered too about why I don’t see some kind of metal reinforcement in the feed lip that I hear about. So does this mean they are a later “export” variant?
That was one of the first things I got corrected on when I made this video, I had the actual pictures and article Bubby Hinton had put out I don't know how I didn't realize there were two, still haven't found one of the 1st gen izzy's either. Got one to trade LOL.
I have an Arsenal 107... Its the mag... I knew when I started loading it there would be a problem. I will try again someday... This one came from Circle 10.
+jason broome Neat to have not need to have, with so many choices in the AK mag world its about finding the one you like best. Bakelites are smooth feeling, light in hand and for a long time were a viable choice but they finally dried up enough to drive the price up but once in a while a guy will show up to class with a chest rig full, still kickin ass LOL.
$30-50 depending on condition and if they have the metal feed lips or not for the later generations, Tula long tops are worth $50-75 DOC and Izzy $80-125 DOC, the molot 40 round unmarked are $150-200 depending on condition, the molot sheild marked ones are $200-300 depending on timing more than condition. Century Arms might still have thousands and thousands stored up as we continually see a small but steady stream of surplus bakelite from time to time and most are to nice to have been battle field pickups but I have seen BFP bakelite mags within the last five years as well
MrFreddy61 Right, I got a Saiga and a NHM-91 both are worth 4-5 times what I paid, I always looked at the magazines as collectible investments but the Guns are just for shooting, kinda nice they increased as much as they have
I'm pretty sure Izzy made a gen one and two longtop. I own 2 izzy longtops and the spacing on the notches are completely different. So now I'm all confused....
+stephen C You are correct, it was confirmed to me by multiple sources there are two versions of the Izzy long top. Buddy Hinton actually has a photo of the two variations once I dug deeper. Proof that idiots that don't really know what they are talking about shouldn't make youtube videos!
I'm still figuring out all the variations. The "Buddy" picture is actually what got me questioning it. It's not easy keeping up with all the different gens and variations.
stephen C Hey thanks for helping spread the correct information, Thank goodness I got my 47 mag addiction under control or I would be seeking out that other izzy right now. I continue to beg the owner of a marked 40 to no avail otherwise I have stopped actively seeking them out, only one I bought this year was a bosnian two ribs that was nicer than the one I have, helped it was marked $25.
I've been collecting 762 mags for a good while now. Just recently got more into Bakelites. I'm really into ((10)) mags, love the Russian waffles and 103s, and all types of Chinese mags. Those 40 round marked bakes are hard to find (the Molot stamped) most all the 762s are unstamped, I'd love to find one. And I love those Bosnian/Croation mags as well those are definitely cool finds. One of these days I'm gonna save up for a Bosnian FDL. Sounds like you have good taste in mags. 👍
+stephen C Yeah someday I will try and grab a few of the super expensive like the FDL and colored ((10)). I only have black 5 30 and 40 rounders. I never got around to green or plumb because they were commonly available then poof they were gone and $70 each all of a sudden. I have a black 30 that has the 10 upside down, I have been told this is common on colored mags but uncommon on black ((10)) do you know anything about that?
Their are more variations, double of what you showed (There is an extra mag *Izzy & Tula* for every Generation)...Also, The "Cyrillics" are GEN 5...Look at the front spine hump, it curves rather than has a "hump" like Gen 4's. They are ALL steel lined in the feedlips also being they were the "New & Improved", yet FINAL Bakelites made before production was halted.....Here is a link to a chart that shows the 4 Gens and the minute differences (Minus Gen 5 Cyrillic which is never publicized as much.) www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/AK/7.62_MagRussianBakeliteIzhesvkVariations4Sm.jpg
jim, i have a couple of izzy's (ridgeback & flat back) that have a black square painted 1/2 way down the front of the mag. it appears to have the outline of a rectangular tab, what is it and its purpose? being an old millworker, my guess is it's a index point for when the 2 sides are joined together. also have several tula's and none of them share this characteristic. i do have 1 tula ridgeback with a black dot in the same location but no tab is noticeable. i just got into collecting, your video was very helpful. i found this helpful and informative too, www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/17/guest-post-brief-history-kalashnikov-magazine-part-1-metal-magazines/ www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/18/guest-post-brief-history-kalashnikov-magazine-part-2-synthetic-magazines/
It has been speculated its a mark put on at the arsenal after cleaning or repair as some have it and some do not, Since there is for sure a mold mark right there some think that is where they tested the mating of the two halves. I have seen great variation in the size and shape of the marks so I'm pretty sure its post production, other than that the world may never know LOL.
i ll buy that! you oughta think about a more in depth video on the AG4, prototypes, manufacturing, materials, etc..you have a lot of knowledge to share. thanks for the history lessen.
Thanks for the kind words. Read through all the comments, guys have added to and corrected me on a few things over the years, we all continue to learn, check out the VR Dead Winter, I show a little more of the 47 collection in there.
+jason broome Better get another one them, that how it all starts LOL. You should be able to sell it fairly easy and try another, my norinco is fine with em but my yugo don't like em as much.
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Great video Jim!!! I got four bakelites this week and I just tested them at the range. Holy cow, I love them now!!! I was able to tell what generation mine are thanks to your video. I have three 3rd gen ridgeback Tula's and one 4th gen flatback Tula Thanks man.
+HarryBalls Johnson Glad you found it useful, AK mag collecting can be addicting so be careful!
I'm a bit surprised that there were never any bakelight magazines with bolt-hold-opens. Helpful video.
Great video and info, to my knowledge and info I have gathered up, there are 6 different generation of Bakelite Ak 47 mags and that’s excluding the 40 round Bakelite , there were both Tula/Izhmash production for every Gen .. .. I will be making a video once I am able to get my hands on all the Gens ..
Just check out your channel, you have great taste in watches. Subbed!
@@stoegerstewie8351 thanks 👍🏼🥃
Love mine. I gave $40 for mine two years ago at Knob Creek gun show and now look what they are selling for.
Yup 100 bucks and up crazy huh
Love bakelite magazines! Thanks for the backround, very informative!
+Frankiecoast I learned a little more after this, the comments below kinda sorts it all out. Thanks for the comment and view.
any advice on how to clean bakelite without damiging them and should you clean them?
For cosmoline I just put them under a heat lamp and wipe off, if dirty oily or muddy I take them apart and wash with dawn just like dishes then dry with a fan, make sure to rub a light coat of clp or oil or the parts before assembly
Nice explanation. I'm a bit of a mag collector, but I apparently need to invest more time into it. Its amazing even in just focusing on AK's there is a lifetime worth of collecting involved.
+ZMB KLR I really need to do some more research myself, I tried to make it clear I was showing what I had and how I understand it. I never got the Fluer De Lis or Rare Colored (10) or other $200 AK mags but I ended up with a bunch of different countries and styles just by visual inspection. The Safe Arms Defense Journal from more than a decade ago can teach you enough to recognize many of them, the Buddy Hinton Collection will give you pictures but not much text. I am thankful I only got two bayonets so I didn't get into that twisted ass world of 1000 + variations, mags are much easier!
I've often wondered if those supposed Sanitized Magazines aren't just some weird East German Bakelite Magazine.. I've heard lots of things! As I'm sure you have, All sorts of people's guess' at what they are looking at. All the collectors here like of course, Mint, No scratches, Cyrillic marked both and even all three arsenals there actually. And of course the Ink stampings. And the O T K, whatever that stands for?. Great Vid.
Great info on Bakelite mags. Local gun shop said he was going to get a few Cerakote AK mags in a Bakalite color/texture.
Should be interesting when they get here. I hope to grab one and post a video when they do. Aloha!
It would be cool to do some steel russian slabsides in bakelite color. Thanks for watching.
I love the short top Tula ridgebacks that I bought, just wish I could find more for a reasonable price. I use these and my East German metal surplus mags exclusively now.
+TR-8R They are still fighting battles and wars with em, saw a video out of Syria last week and Kurdish Police forces had multiple countries, styles and types of 47s with a huge assortment of mags but some guys were still running bakelites :)
+TRUNKBACK JIM I love mine so I can't blame people for using them still. Are there any differences in quality between generations (specifically between Gen 3 and Gen 4 for both Izzy and Tula)?
TR-8R I don't think there is any advantage to either factory or ridged vs smooth. I have one in the rotation of range mags for history sake but most of mine won't get used unless very bad things happen. I would avoid the last generation(s?5 or 5 and 6?) without the metal in the lips, cheap export mags of inferior quality for sure.
I have both Tula and izzy short tops with and with out steel feed lips. Where do the ones without steel fit into the generations?
I have been looking for these, they started showing up in the last couple years, AIM dumped a mixed lot on the market in 2013 and people got these. Generation wise its hard to say as they have been reported with and without the spine, some speculate these were made recently due to bakelite values in america but I tend to beleive the Export Magazine angle, its reported by the late 70s many of the molds were no longer viable and made these to sell extremely cheaply to foreign governments that bought AKs from them. People have gotten all three of the common russian floorplates on these as well from what I understand. Seems more ridgebacks than flat backs being reported as well. Thanks for watching, I gotta get a better lighting setup but more AK mag videos to come.
great info and VERY helpful for newbies like me! thank you
+Idea Called Freedom its a start, just enough to be dangerous, read all these comments and you will figure out the stuff I didn't know or understand when I made the video. Thanks for stopping by.
i have a ridge back 30rd bakelite 3rd generation bakelite magazine that does not have metal in the lips. but does in the front and rear lugs. i have never seen one like this, as i just received it. anyone know what the deal is? why they would make a ridge back with no reinforcements in the lips?
Its talked about in the comments, a fifth generation perhaps? it appears there are ridge and smooth back without metal in the lips, some think they were export mags for foreign government sales, some think they were made in modern times but I believe the export mag theory is more viable. The fact that they did not show up until 2006 or so in the US makes people buy into the modern production thing. I always stop to look at bakelite at guns shows so maybe someday I will actually bump into one, I don't actively seek 47 mags anymore but still buy one from time to time. My video VR to Dead Winter has the bulgarian and chinese parts of my 47 mag collection shown if you like 47 mags check it out.
Where can you still find these? Is it all gun shows at this point? Also very informative video.
They have become a cult thing and are getting harder to find, gunbroker usually has some, you can always find them at The AK files forum sales page. I have paid as little as $8(1998) on up to $125 for the rare ones, most people are between $40-50 at this point. The molot 40 rounder and the Chinese being the most sought after, as high as $200 in the present market
Cool video, thanks for sharing! I recently bought a 40 round bakeite magazine exactly like yours but no metal in the feed lips. I'm guessing it's an older version. I'm going to run it with my range mags to see how it holds up.
Check and see if it has brass lugs, it might be a pakistani version! Thanks for stopping by.
It's Russian for sure, as I do have a 40 round Pakistani version to compare it to! It's made out of plastic to look like bakelite.
Alex Sweers
Yep, they fool tons of people though!
Exactly the type of video/information I've been searching for. Awesome video, thanks so much.
I have learned a lot from the comments left, some info was inaccurate but was what I knew at the time
Very informative. Thanks
Thanks for video. I recently picked up a bakelite that doesn't seem to match any of yours. It's a long top and the notches are close together, but it's a ridge back. Any ideas?
+jmpriester1 Sorry I did not make it clear all the long tops are ridge backs, the close together notches would indicate its a Tula manufactured first generation bakelite.
+TRUNKBACK JIM Wow, that's awesome. Thanks so much for the reply!
Do all the bakelites come with the 10 round limiter? I received one the other day that doesn't have a limiter but it's my first izzy. All my others are Tula and all have the limiter.
+Tim Harleydude No, most do not have them, with that being said there are millions with limiters, we have no idea how many bakelites were made by the three companies, Stories of Tula making them at a rate of 90,000 per month do not seem unreal considering soviet doctrine at the time.
Great video! Very informative. I am going to buy my first bakelite, is 61.00 too expensive for an unishued Tula? Thanks!
They are getting harder to find so that is probably about right if your gonna keep it nice, if you plan on using it you can usually score the run of the mill used ones in the $40 range now.
Great info. Picked up a Tula today. Would you say Tula is more desirable than a izzy?
I see no difference in the performance, Izzy Long Tops are the Hardest to find and are a premium over Tula longtops by $20-50 depending on how long its been since one was for sale, on the later generations Tula demands a $5-10 premium just because some people only collect Tula stuff which of course competes with the Bakelite only collectors in that segment as well as the people that have guns built on Tula Kits.
Yes...
Finally I have found someone with the same interest as me in AK 47 bakelite mags! Your video is great! I have most of the mags that you have. The ones you describe as 3rd generation from Tula & Izmash have a few variations of follower and floorplate to consider!
+Richard Williams Sorry for the late reply, I just found a couple comments. Many collectors frown on the idea of floorplate variations being legit as they are so easy to change and many bakelites saw duty, the floorplates often got damaged in handling, storage and shipping as well and were replaced at will, sometimes even in america by the importer just to make them look better, I bet Century could buy a whole pallet of brand new surplus floorplates for $200 in 1990. I got a Pakistani Fakelite and a Norinco bakelite I need to show sometime.
Thanks for the info. I'm just getting into Bakelites.
I always liked the hunting them down, its easier to get some from gunbroker but its always cool to bump into the.
Very cool! Where did you find the information on the AK47 mags? I did a few videos on the 5.45 x 39 mags and found some of the history on them. When I looked for the history on the 7.62 x 39 mags I didn't find much info at all. Also on the 5.45 x 39 Molot 45 round Bakelite mags some of them didn't have the Molot marking. They say that these were contracted to Bulgaria and didn't have the markings. I'm not sure if that's true with the 7.62 x 39 40 round Molot mags though. I started collecting AK mags a little while back and I love the history behind them. I just started getting some of the Tula and Izhmash Bakelite 7.62 x 39 mags to add to my collection. I'm a big fan of the Bakelite mags lol. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the share, the best article I have ever found came from the Small Arms Defense Journal on AK Magazine Identification but it only covers the 47s and is older with some left out, Buddy Hinton is the king of the AK mag collectors, this bakelite history as I understand it has come from photos he made 10 or 15 years ago. More AK 47 mag videos to come
TRUNKBACK JIM Thanks for the info I'll check it out. I'm looking forward to more AK47 mags videos from you too. I wanted to have as much history on my mag videos as possible. Some of the AK74 mags I've looked at getting are close to $200 each! The current issue Russian mags seem to be the pricey ones just because they haven't made it to the secondary market like the older surplus mags have. Thanks again for the info.
Is there an actual difference in structural strength between gen 3 and 4? Or was it just to save a touch more bakelite and shave slightly more weight
+Jalen Byon Sorry for the late reply I just saw your comment, Its generally accepted that the molds were getting worn and the edges were getting sloppy so shaving them off smooth was the easiest way to keep making them.
awesome video thank you good sir
Awe shit now I'm balls deep in Bakelites again.
What about the.ridge back and flat back with non-reinforced reed lips?
I never got any of them, most of my bakelites were bought a long time ago before those were really on the scene. They didn't show up until around 08 or so from what I hear. I have seen a few locally but can't pay the $50 pretty much all bakelites are demanding at gun shows around here now.
I got some recently and they don't have the factory emblems but there are different numbers on the bottoms. not sure where they come from.
The only ones I have seen without Factory stamps are the 40 round ones from Molot in Russia.
TRUNKBACK JIM thanks. I looked around and if im not mistaken they are East German.
Great info...thanks for posting
Thanks for stopping by and checking it out.
Excellent video! Thank you kind sir.
Thanks, I learned a lot since making this, guess I didn't know as much as I thought I did but at least I showed off my different types. If you like 47 mags check out my VR to dead winter, its the chinese and bulgarian variations I have collected.
I like the 40 round mag! Both Gens 1 and 2 are very Cool as well! I have seen both marked and unmarked 40 rounders. The Molot 74 magazine with the Shield and Star make me think they, the 40 Round mags, should have the same mark. But that's just me. Great Vid!
Quiett55 Yeah I have never seen a 40 that could verified as having been sanitized, they are either marked or not marked but that won't stop the argument from going on, people argue over which style is more rare and which style is older, a collector I know with over 500 bakelites including more than 100 long tops thinks the marked are older but the unmarked are more rare so until someone figures it out we will just keep speculating. There are really only two things the collector community agrees on, Molot made both styles, if you can afford it buy them when you see them as they are hard to find in the US.
A new video showing the collection and going over the information again with added knowledge would be great if you could! This video is great for people wanting to learn and just admire the different versions.
I would really like to do my whole collection eventually, if you like more than bakelite check out my VR to Dead Winter where I show my mags from China and Bulgaria.
+TRUNKBACK JIM I checked the other videos out! Very clear and informative. Where do you get your Bakelites from? What would you advise collecting vs using? And how much is a good deal on any of these?
Tom Williams
I only use one in my rotation of AK range mags but would consider any of the metal feed lip ones Duty mags and good to go if every needed. It seems they have settled in at $30-50 depending on the condition for gen 3 or 4, the long tops are usually $70 and up and the 40 rounders are $115 and up. Most of my bakelites came from local gun shows back when you could get them cheap. Beating the bushes at gun shows and local shops is still the best option as someone might take a little less if you offer and some people don't know what they got. One youtuber found a norinco bakelite in a misc bin at his local gun shop for $20, With Gunbroker you could build a collection quick but its gonna cost you. AK Files Forum has a buy and sell section where you can find some great stuff but no real deals to be had. I always look at Armslist, don't be afraid to call a guy and ask him to seperate the mags from the gun if he has something cool. He can always go buy a couple magpuls or tapcos to go with the gun.
+TRUNKBACK JIM thank you so much!!
uhg, this video needs an update badly. There's at least 12 types of 7.62x39 AG-4C mags produced by the USSR, and Izhevsk produced several generations of mag before Tula came along with their lone long-top design. No way can Tula bakes be described as 'gen 1' if we're trying to keep anything in chronological order.
So will all these mags fit your standard akm 47’s?
Yes, a little tight in my nhm 91, perfect in my saiga conversion and loose in my m70a but its a century build so take that with a grain of salt.
TRUNKBACK JIM any experience putting them in a wasr or arsenal?
No WASRs to test, they are all perfect fit in my cousins SAM7 arsenal but its milled not stamped.
TRUNKBACK JIM ok thanks. It was all the generations of the mags I wasn’t sure they’d all fit because they use different designs.
🔥🔥🔥 great 👍🏽 info.
If your info is correct, I just got a 3rd generation!! Awesome and can't wait to let it work!
+jason broome Longtop bakelite, ridge back bakelite and smooth back bakelite might be getter to communicate en mass because some people call all longtops generation 1 instead of allowing for two generations of longtops. If your talking to a guy that goes by Buddy Hinton nomenclature it is indeed a generation three LOL.
+TRUNKBACK JIM, mine is a short top Tula with ridge back
jason broome
That is the perfect way to describe it :)
which are more desirable the tula or the izy?
Longtops you want to buy any Izzy you can, they are much more rare than the Tula, as far as normal bakelites they made millions of both so most people don't care either way, they have the same value although you will see many more NIB looking Tula mags then you will Izzy ones in my experience
TRUNKBACK JIM thanks
Love bakelites I'm paying 60$ for 47/74
Is that a decent price? Thanks
That seems high for 74, I am not well versed in them, some are worth way more than that but seem to run $30-40 here locally. jesticearms(dot)com usually has a decent supply, check em out.
47 wise it seems its a sellers market, I haven't seen one under $40 here in a long time, last show there was an old guy with one for $40 it was dirty and a little rusty, a 47 collector I know recently let go of some of his hoard, izzy ridgebacks in brand new condition, the ones with perfect stamps and proof marks were $90 and the rest $75.
AK Files has a marketplace section, I never had one bad transaction either selling or buying.
Jestice used to sell tons of 47 bakelite but I haven't seen any in a while, that sight should be checked weekly because you never know what you are gonna find, today he has some slabside metal izzys listed, haven't seen any of them in a couple years locally.
Going up and up for real good Tula ones...
it is common for some gen 3 ridgebacks to not have steel feed lips- most have them but I have a few izzy and Tula that do not
The way I understand it they were made as export mags for Russia to offer as a cheaper option to sell to foreign countries that bought AKs from them. It would make sense that as the russian surplus bakelites started to dry up the importers would bring them in from foreign countries the russians sold to thus the somewhat late appearance, you would be hard pressed to find any mention of a metal less version prior to 2007 or 2008.
I bought two of these Gen 3 (Tula markings) at a VA gun show today, for $140. Pristine condition and they were kept well preserved in oil/preservative…but I wondered too about why I don’t see some kind of metal reinforcement in the feed lip that I hear about. So does this mean they are a later “export” variant?
Gen 1 were not exclusively made by Tula. Izhmash as made Gen 1's
That was one of the first things I got corrected on when I made this video, I had the actual pictures and article Bubby Hinton had put out I don't know how I didn't realize there were two, still haven't found one of the 1st gen izzy's either. Got one to trade LOL.
I have an Arsenal 107... Its the mag... I knew when I started loading it there would be a problem. I will try again someday... This one came from Circle 10.
+jason broome Neat to have not need to have, with so many choices in the AK mag world its about finding the one you like best. Bakelites are smooth feeling, light in hand and for a long time were a viable choice but they finally dried up enough to drive the price up but once in a while a guy will show up to class with a chest rig full, still kickin ass LOL.
+TRUNKBACK JIM... I will keep it.. give it another run and at worst it will be a cool looking mag to have.
so whats a good price for these than?
$30-50 depending on condition and if they have the metal feed lips or not for the later generations, Tula long tops are worth $50-75 DOC and Izzy $80-125 DOC, the molot 40 round unmarked are $150-200 depending on condition, the molot sheild marked ones are $200-300 depending on timing more than condition. Century Arms might still have thousands and thousands stored up as we continually see a small but steady stream of surplus bakelite from time to time and most are to nice to have been battle field pickups but I have seen BFP bakelite mags within the last five years as well
@@88TRUNKBACK I picked some up for $25 a piece and now they're selling for $80+ lol.
MrFreddy61 I wanna say the cheapest one I have bought was $8 back in 92 or 93, $25 is pre sandy hook price, never was the same after
@@88TRUNKBACK this was back couple years after i saw your vid. Now thiers as lot of hipster cool kids paying $1000 for wasrs and $100 for bakes lol
MrFreddy61 Right, I got a Saiga and a NHM-91 both are worth 4-5 times what I paid, I always looked at the magazines as collectible investments but the Guns are just for shooting, kinda nice they increased as much as they have
I'm pretty sure Izzy made a gen one and two longtop. I own 2 izzy longtops and the spacing on the notches are completely different. So now I'm all confused....
+stephen C You are correct, it was confirmed to me by multiple sources there are two versions of the Izzy long top. Buddy Hinton actually has a photo of the two variations once I dug deeper. Proof that idiots that don't really know what they are talking about shouldn't make youtube videos!
I'm still figuring out all the variations. The "Buddy" picture is actually what got me questioning it. It's not easy keeping up with all the different gens and variations.
stephen C Hey thanks for helping spread the correct information, Thank goodness I got my 47 mag addiction under control or I would be seeking out that other izzy right now. I continue to beg the owner of a marked 40 to no avail otherwise I have stopped actively seeking them out, only one I bought this year was a bosnian two ribs that was nicer than the one I have, helped it was marked $25.
I've been collecting 762 mags for a good while now. Just recently got more into Bakelites. I'm really into ((10)) mags, love the Russian waffles and 103s, and all types of Chinese mags. Those 40 round marked bakes are hard to find (the Molot stamped) most all the 762s are unstamped, I'd love to find one. And I love those Bosnian/Croation mags as well those are definitely cool finds. One of these days I'm gonna save up for a Bosnian FDL. Sounds like you have good taste in mags. 👍
+stephen C Yeah someday I will try and grab a few of the super expensive like the FDL and colored ((10)). I only have black 5 30 and 40 rounders. I never got around to green or plumb because they were commonly available then poof they were gone and $70 each all of a sudden. I have a black 30 that has the 10 upside down, I have been told this is common on colored mags but uncommon on black ((10)) do you know anything about that?
Their are more variations, double of what you showed (There is an extra mag *Izzy & Tula* for every Generation)...Also, The "Cyrillics" are GEN 5...Look at the front spine hump, it curves rather than has a "hump" like Gen 4's. They are ALL steel lined in the feedlips also being they were the "New & Improved", yet FINAL Bakelites made before production was halted.....Here is a link to a chart that shows the 4 Gens and the minute differences (Minus Gen 5 Cyrillic which is never publicized as much.) www.sturmgewehr.com/bhinton/AK/7.62_MagRussianBakeliteIzhesvkVariations4Sm.jpg
great infos i need some too..:)
Thanks for watching and Hello from Iowa
TRUNKBACK JIM you're welcome...greetings from iliinois
jim, i have a couple of izzy's (ridgeback & flat back) that have a black square painted 1/2 way down the front of the mag. it appears to have the outline of a rectangular tab, what is it and its purpose? being an old millworker, my guess is it's a index point for when the 2 sides are joined together.
also have several tula's and none of them share this characteristic. i do have 1 tula ridgeback with a black dot in the same location but no tab is noticeable. i just got into collecting, your video was very helpful.
i found this helpful and informative too,
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/17/guest-post-brief-history-kalashnikov-magazine-part-1-metal-magazines/
www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2016/09/18/guest-post-brief-history-kalashnikov-magazine-part-2-synthetic-magazines/
It has been speculated its a mark put on at the arsenal after cleaning or repair as some have it and some do not, Since there is for sure a mold mark right there some think that is where they tested the mating of the two halves. I have seen great variation in the size and shape of the marks so I'm pretty sure its post production, other than that the world may never know LOL.
i ll buy that! you oughta think about a more in depth video on the AG4, prototypes, manufacturing, materials, etc..you have a lot of knowledge to share.
thanks for the history lessen.
Thanks for the kind words. Read through all the comments, guys have added to and corrected me on a few things over the years, we all continue to learn, check out the VR Dead Winter, I show a little more of the 47 collection in there.
Tula with just a star ??
My bakelite didn't feed properly, dangit
+jason broome Better get another one them, that how it all starts LOL. You should be able to sell it fairly easy and try another, my norinco is fine with em but my yugo don't like em as much.