Who should be allowed to receive Communion? | Think Like a Jesuit, Episode 2
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 พ.ค. 2024
- The “Communion Wars” were back in 2022, with high-profile Catholics in U.S. politics under fire for their public support of abortion rights. The case of Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi attracted particular attention when she was publicly barred from receiving Communion in her home diocese of San Francisco.
In this second episode of “Think Like a Jesuit,” Paddy and Eric talk about why the “Communion Wars” are such a politically charged topic, discuss the political situation of U.S. Catholics and offer tools from Ignatian spirituality to think through both sides of the debate.
Read "No one can win the Communion wars over abortion" by Sam Sawyer, S.J. here: www.americamagazine.org/faith...
---
America Media is the leading provider of editorial content for thinking Catholics and those who want to know what Catholics are thinking. To become a subscriber, visit www.americamagazine.org/subsc....
******
Sign-up for our newsletter: bit.ly/2Ka4SOi
******
Follow us on Social Media:
• America Media on Facebook: bit.ly/2Kal3Ll
• America Media on Twitter: bit.ly/2viJosZ
• America Media on Instagram: bit.ly/2Ka5q6O
******
Support more videos like this: bit.ly/2vgqm6A
"U.S. bishops: ‘The threat of abortion remains our preeminent priority.’ " AmericaMag The Jesuit Review 11.12.2019 edition
Happy to hear it. The Jesuit Review has admitted it. Thanks be to God.
They need to start acting like it. By that I mean they are loud on laws to apply civil penalties to abortion, which experience shows offer limited protections to the unborn, but they are weak on proven social programs that reduce abortions -- paid maternity leave, universal health care, job protections for pregnant workers, etc. As of now, the bishops cannot be taken seriously.
What about St. Paul's warning not to partake of the body of Christ unworthily?
They are Jesuit….what do you want…? Have essentially become the protestant wing and given up Catholic teaching at this point. No confession needed, no sins no nothing
No one is worthy to receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord, Jesus Christ. What Paul expressed, I believe, is that we must discern the true prescrnce, 70% of Catholics don't. Behold, the Lamb of God. We must behold and receive Him, He forgives our sins.
@@henrymccarty5059 no one is worthy, true. However, there are those who have already cut themselves off from communion with the body, those in the state of serious sin. This is not "my" thoughts this comes from the Word of God. Are we to make God a liar. Jesus spoke of the narrow gate. Today too many want to reinvent this and widen the gate and water down the teaching of Jesus s that sin is perfectly fine. Yes the church is to welcome all but to lead them to repentance and embracing the "way of the gospel". Jesus, Who is the Gospel, did not throw out the10 commandments of God.
@@mercy2453 sorry, I missed this:. When did I imply that sin was just fine?
@@henrymccarty5059 I read your comment in light of the train of thought that anyone can receive cuz it's just medicine, which was brought up in the talk as pope Francis's opinion. Your comment, at least to me, seemed to be a rebuttal to thecatholicdad. Here's why:
Your response was to thecatholicdad who mentioned St. Paul's quote about not receiving unworthily. He was of course responding to the talk. The talk implied that the Cardinal was wrong in his action towards Pelosi because the Pope keeps saying that the Eucharist is food for the sick, implying there is no distinction for those not in the state of grace. According to Paul and other places in the Word of God the Cardinal was not wrong, especially since he tried numerous times to meet with Peolsi privately to correct her. She refused. Many today use the argument that no one is worthy hence all sinners are able to receive because it's medicine, hence even those not in the state of Grace can receive because it's medicine. This doesn't line up with 2000 yrs of consistent theology on grace and sin and the Eucharist. Pope St. John Paul II, Pope St. Paul VI and Pope Benedict XVI all said the greatest evil of our time is the loss of the sense of sin. I believe this truth is whitewashed. The concept of sin has been so relativized (might be wrong to you but not to me).
If you were agreeing with thecatholicdad I didn't pick that up, stating in your thoughts that you agreed with the point he was making would have been more clear. :-)
“Christ associated w/those deemed “unworthy” by religious and civil leaders…”-Daniel P Horan, OFM
Yes, but surely Jesus also never ceased to call all (including them) to repentance.
NotANameist - thanks for your quotation of an OFM Franciscan and finishing his quotation. God be with you brother.
Yes calling all to repentance, not just pointing out a select few (gays, politicians, etc) as being somehow more especially sinful and therefore excluding them from communion.
As a (former-Protestant) convert, I joined the Catholic church for the clarity in its teachings, an authority given to it by Christ. However, I am frustrated that modern Catholic leadership does not discipline those within our churches. How is it that many of us converts wrestle and grieve over every church teaching in RCIA, then finally decide to submit to the church's authority for the sake of Christian unity, yet "Catholic" politicians who consistently and publicly flaunt a very clear church teaching in abortion don't get disciplined at all (for their own good)? How is it that, many of us converts had to accept by faith that the eucharist is the REAL body of our Lord, yet the church that teaches this doesn't seem to care who takes it unworthily?
Also, I mean, the whole point of being Catholic instead of Protestant is that you accept the teaching and authority of your church, and not whatever you think is the moral truth, right? At this point, I'm less mad at Biden and Pelosi, and more mad at church leadership for failing to lead.
The Bible provides a clear picture of how to discipline some within the church (to ultimately restore them). Why can't church leadership just follow this?
Matthew 18:15-17 (“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. 16 But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.)
1 Corinthians 5:11 (But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler-not even to eat (communion) with such a one.)
1 Corinthians 11:27-28 ( So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup.)
-God bless you all, sorry i just needed to vent a bit. Please pray for the church leadership, as well as the politicians involved. I don't want to feel moral outrage at anyone and know we all need to be humble and loving, but the church needs discipline too!
Sorry about your frustration Fred Ge. I and many other Catholics agree with you. What you have to remember is that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church was funded by Christ Himself that is why it is Holy. Unfortunately the people running it are Human Beings and as such make mistakes from time to time. But we have the Deposit of the Faith which is unchangeable, as is Tradition and the Bible. Our Pope's job is to keep those three thing intact and unchangeable. He is the Vicar of Christ but has no power to change the 3 mention things above. That is what has kept us united. Another thing is that our Lord promised us that we would be here until the end of time. So no matter how many problems we seem to have, the safeguards mentioned above are good enough to keep us united.
The Church is open to everyone, saints and sinners, but the sinner have to remember they have to repent and change according to the law of God. As Padre Pio said: "1. Pray. 2. Hope and 3. Dont worry" that is what we have to do. And let Jesus Christ run his Church. Since we are trinitarians, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are running His church. So relax, you came to the right place. Just pray, pray and pray..... God bless you...
I don't think its such a black and white issue. In my mind it concerns legislation and giving people the right to do something, even if you are morally opposed to it. And politicians serve a body of people, not just one. I don't personally think abortion is a solution, but I am also not a woman who has to contend with having a child, or be put in a medical situation where abortion is a viable option for some reason. The church has to acknowledge that not everyone in the world thinks the same thing about fetuses having a soul from conception and passing legislation about it doesn't suddenly make all of the problems about abortion go away just by outlawing it. There are many things in practice which are legal and allowed which one may not partake in due to their own conscience, in my mind its not the position of the church to legislate the freedoms of people, but to guide those people in making free, informed and ethical decisions within their sphere of freedom and choice.
👍✝🙏
I agree with the overall message for unity here, but I believe that a strong clear message on the gravity of the depravity of advocating for widespread legalization of abortion must be given. This has nothing to do with conservative vs liberal, democrat and republican on left vs right. This is about the lives of the vulnerable being murdered being legally protected and lauded by those who in the next breath declare that they follow their Catholic Faith in a public manner. This whether they realize it or not is scandal and sin on a grand scale! For the lives of the innocent, the name of Holy Mother Church, and the souls of those involved in the machinery of the Culture of Death, we must show they are as gravely in error as they truly are! This is a matter of Mercy and Justice both crying for the same response!
The Archivist - thanks for expressing what should have been said before. You put everybody to shame. Thanks for being a defender of the little innocent Children in the Womb. God bless you.
Listening to the other’s viewpoints and engaging in dialogue with them does not require ceding moral truth. We have an obligation to reveal and instruct in a loving way. If a major public figure with political power was actively promoting making it legal to murder humans after birth, would they be allowed to participate in communion? Why is okay to murder humans before they are born? (It’s not)
If a major public figure with political power was actively opposing a social program that was proven to reduce abortions by even a greater number than ineffective criminal laws against abortion, should they be allowed to participate in communion?
Brendon. So nicely put. Amen to that.
They already are. Advocates of the death penalty regularly receive communion, often by the same diocese denying Rep. Pelosi.
@@kurt4320 Do you believe bearing false witness is a sin? Surely, you do when others lie to you.
@@TedSeeber While you are wrong, you are not sinning. Misunderstanding social data is not a sin. But understanding social data is also not a precondition for Communion. So you and I can have our disagreements but a bishop has no right to insist a layperson accept a particular understanding of social data.
What goes through my mind is 'Lord, I am not worthy to receive you '.
1 Corinthians 11:27-32
27Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord. 28But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. 30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world.
Great video,we truly need more conversations like this in our country
Many lives are lost in a variety of ways due to neglect and sin, but abortion is the source of over 800,000 babies being killed per year, which is a surreal tragedy. The gravity and scale of this is not quite comparable to other issues (as important as they are). It's true that far too much is politicized in America, but this is serious moral issue on a different level from others if one actually accepts Catholic Church teaching.
800,000 babies a year. Before Obamacare, it was a million per year. Obamacare is saving 200,000 babies a year. That is slightly more than the number of abortions the pro-life Susan B. Anthony Fund estimate the Dobbs decision will prevent. While abortion is wrong, Catholics are left to their own judgment as how to best protect life.
@@kurt4320 this is a point worth considering, thank you. But your inference to Obamacare causing that result would need more empirical evidence. Otherwise you risk committing the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. But I definitely do agree about the need for greater healthcare.
@@richardkim7788 Yes, evidence should be reviewed. But with that, we have moved away from any matter that is within the competency of the bishops and into a matter which is of the prudential judgment of each layperson. So, if one is convinced that Obamacare does far more to protect the unborn than Dobbs ever would, one should not be denied communion for acting on that conclusion.
@@kurt4320 I think there can be reasonable disagreement here, but I don't think Pelosi was denied communion for the reason you cited (for supporting Obamacare). Rather the main reason was that she was explicit in defending abortion rights in all situations-you can find her literally saying that numerous times. (But I would welcome arguments to the contrary.) You should read Cordileone's actual letter for yourself if you have not yet since he gives his reasons for what he did, rightly or wrongly. Again, I think there can be reasonable disagreement on this, but what he did was also, in my view, reasonable given that she is openly defending abortion rights (again at all stages!) as an important public speaker. If, for example, Mitch McConnell openly defended slavery or racism for decades, I would also be willing to say that a bishop could reasonably deny communion to him, although that would be up to the bishop to decide even then. Or if someone is a publicly known drug lord, a priest can legitimately deny that person communion as well if he refuses repent and persists in perpetuating violence. These are obviously uncommon situations that are far from ideal since as a matter of course communion should not be denied; we are all sinners after all. But that doesn't mean there aren't situations when communion can be legitimately denied to an individual.
@@richardkim7788 "Or if someone is a publicly known drug lord..." Yes. The Speaker is not a publicly known abortion doctor. Catholics who have in good conscience but even with poor reasoning asserted that drug laws are ineffective and counterproductive and that government should stay out of drug control are not denied communion. It would seem in all matters when we are talking about prudential judgments over public policy, a bishop sitting in his mansion is in no position to make this judgment over a public servant he has never had a pastoral conversation with. The bishops made grave factual mistakes when they falsely said Obamacare funded abortion. They are no experts in how public policy works.
Man, if only there was a sacrament to reconcile all parties, and prepare us for communion.
There is, it's called the "Sacrament of Reconciliation." Better know has confession. Thanks for reminding us.
@Mike Rpipher Article 4: The Sacrament of Penance and Reconciliation. It is called the sacrament of Penance (CCC. 1422). It is called the sacrament of conversion (CCC.1423). It is called sacrament of confession(CCC.1424a.) It is called the sacrament of forgiveness (CCC. 1424b). It is called the sacrament of Reconciliation (CCC1424c).Thanks for pointing that out.
It's been some time since I read that. Pax.
Awful! The medicine of mercy is not the Eucharist. The medicine of mercy is the confessional. The Eucharist is something beyond mercy, it justifies and enobles a person to be what they cannot be on their own. You give someone something for which they haven't been prepared and you can easily poison them. St. Paul spelled it out plainly that someone who eats and drinks the body and blood of the Lord without having discerned it and recieved it worthily eats and drinks their own damnation. I find it appalling that priests have this casual attitude and willingness to experiment with what is sacred. It makes me doubt their sincerity and belief in the real presence at all. It's portrayed as more of a psychological toy or a placebo spiritual vitamin.
Amen to that Gerry.
Does this mean that you are saying nobody should ever be punished by the Church? I am trying to presume the best of your discussion here.
They should not have communion denied to them because of a public policy position.
So when should communion be denied?
@@TedSeeber and "grave mortal sin" is hardly "this legal regimen is better than that legal regimen". Those who dismiss proven social programs that reduce the abortion rate and protect the unborn because they are suspicious of government social programs might be wrong, but should not be denied communion, just as those who dismiss the mild civil penalties the Right to Life Movement proposes to curb abortions should also not be denied communion.
@@TedSeeber Yes. What you are talking about differs from what the organized Pro-Life Movement and every Catholic conservative Republican in Congress is talking about. Just be honest and ask that all of them along with the Speaker be banned from Communion. Not one Catholic Member of Congress meets the standard you have set, so don't focus on one person.
I'm trying to find out the Fathers' position. "When should communion be denied?" is a separate question to "When should you not receive?". I want to find out if the Fathers think that the Church was wrong in the past for imposing such a penalty or that the provision for such a penalty in canon law is mistaken? In other words when do they think this penalty should apply?
If they do not truly believe in they do not believe in the in the REAL PRESENCE of Our Lord in the Eucharist--Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity, EUCHARIST in the Bread and Wine of a validly Consecrated Eucharist, they should NOT be receiving Communion. And if they either vote in a way that is opposite from what THE CHURCH teaches and holds to, (not a particular priest or "so-called" pope, but the VALID ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, they should not be allowed to receive the Eucharist!!!
2000 plus years of History within THE CHURCH,and the "educated," and "so-calledpope," some with little to no education, think they know better then the Apostles, the rest of the disciples, the Early Church Fathers, and the VALID POPES since that time!! This is our "time of testing," before the end times. This is when we the PEOPLE of THE CHURCH learn what we truly know in our head and in our hearts, when the supposed leaders are trying to take us astray! Sadly the Jesuits are the worst of the group!!
Hmmm…are these fathers aware of the sacrament of reconciliation?
Kathie you read my mind.
Denying Communion shouldn’t be used as a weapon but as a consequence (albeit harsh) of ignoring the magisterium of the Church.
Additionally, this consequence should be used as an opportunity to teach and allow the recalcitrant to return to communion with the Church.
It is not pastoral to allow someone to take communion if they are in a state of public sin or heresy, it is in fact damaging to their souls.
Yes if they are breaking faith they should be denied until they go to confession, repent, and change their lives just as we are all called to do. Everyone is called to live what Jesus asks of us. Let’s all help each other do so.
Brenda. Amen.
Communion is NOT for an Open Warfare event! Denying communion to Speaker Pelosi was an red flag by an arrogant archbishop!
The bishop’s decision is the proper one according to the faith.
I appreciate a deep and intellectual look at various topics. Looking at the best part of an argument can be a very effective approach to encourage dialogue.
My concern is that as Catholics, really as Christians, we have to take the Bible seriously. The ten commandments, the beatitudes, Jesus's warning of hell, all need to be taken seriously. Our faith isn't just humanitarian philosophy. We have to look at Scriptures with authority. This Jesuit approach/synodal way can lead to ambiguity of actually rather clear teachings in the Scriptures. Which we are to evangelize by our actions and words to the world.
I understand what you are saying, however I feel the jesuit position is being extremely honest about how complex these issues have become and how many differing interpretations of what is correct can occur, even within the church. For the church to engage in the modern world in an effective way, she needs to become familiar with all of the voices and experiences concerning particular issues. And often, our as our understanding of the world and ourselves grow and evolve, the church needs to be able to take in these truths as well.
@@Cub1985 I agree the Church needs to understand what people are dealing with in current times. Our secular culture/technology has a huge influence on all of us, presenting temptations and problems that were hardly present even 80 years ago.
The main point of my concern is modifying the Church to suit modern trends and culture. We are to genuinely try to live like Christ, but it feels like some in the Church are trying to morph Christ to suit us. We need to be very careful to not do that.
Thank you. It's always a pleasure to listen to your words and try to understand the deeper meaning and underlying message from each person from opposing views.
Jesus said I did not come to bring peace but a sword, he also issued a lot of damnations, so how is vitriol and damnation part of the evil spirit ?
Brendan Butler - Amen.
Fathers, thank you for posting this. I just don’t think abortion and whatever other issues you are thinking about (Universal Healthcare, Death Penalty, Immigration etc.) are even remotely comprobable to abortion in moral gravity. There have been millions of pre born babies killed. The amount of death penalties every year is a tiny drop of water in the ocean of abortions. Also, as you know, abortion is intrinsically wrong. All these other issues I have mentioned and that you may be thinking about are not wrong in principle. The death penalty (DP) in particular has been carried out and approved by the Church for ages, the question now is if it is really prudent in this day and age. I agree with the last three popes on DP, but Pope Benedict the 16th himself said you can disagree with DP and still be a Catholic in good standing. There has been a long history in the Catholic Church, Orthodox Church, Oriental Church etc. of denying communion to PUBLIC sinners. Because it is a scandal. Not denying her communion when she is advocating for abortion would not be a loving thing to do and is a massive scandal. Also there is a difference between denying communion to struggling and repentant sinners and denying communion to unrepentant sinners who are manifest in their sin AND being public about it like Pelosi. When you look at the gravity of what she is doing, the politicization argument becomes obsolete. This is about her soul and not causing scandal. I am very happy the Archbishop was brave enough to do this.
Racism is a sin. Disregarding those who are ill is a sin. Refusing to care for migrants is a sin. You might say you care for the sick but think when government gets involved, it doesn't solve the problem. Another person says the same about abortion. Obamacare reduced the abortion rate more than Dobbs has. Catholics are free to use their prudential judgment on what public policy responses are best.
I could not have said it better. I don’t know if these priests are aware of the many Catholics who will use their argument to say…”I can support abortion because we can’t demand that women not kill their babies until we solve every other social issue plaguing us.” Also too many don’t even believe in the true presence of the Lord in the Eucharist so I am glad that Bishop Cordileone provided this much needed clarity. If you are unrepentant in your sin, especially so publicly, and after many attempts have been made to call you to repentance, allowing you to receive the Eucharist will cause grave scandal and confuse many others IMO. This should not be a political issue at all. The church has been clear in her defense of life from conception to natural death. If you can’t accept that basic tenet how can you proclaim from the rooftops that you are a devout Catholic. We are all sinners, myself very much included, but I don’t go about proudly proclaiming my sin. Our Catholic beliefs are either true and worthy of respecting or they are meaningless.
@@aliciacruz9723 Captial punishment is not a natural death.
@@kurt4320 who said I was defending capital punishment? My point is that you can’t enjoy any other rights if you don’t the right to live. There are many evils in this world and many sins. Not all hold the same moral weight. Were she not such a public figure with the ability to lead many others astray I would not feel as strongly about it.
@@aliciacruz9723 Not all sins have the same moral weight. Not all sins require criminal laws prohibiting them. The civil and criminal response to any sin or social evil is a matter of prudential judgment.
(6:39) -- "The place of tension is the place of grace."
The internet has been recently overwhelmed with priests who communicate extreme positions on any number of topics. Since I am a returning Catholic searching for the right Catholic Church throughout my city, I have not had a consistent pastoral voice to guide me. Recently, I made the commitment to membership at a particular church which, hopefully, will eliminate this spiritual angst!!! However, I became so weary of working to integrate my own conscience with the loudest pastoral voice, many times found on the internet which appear to represent a very extreme point of view!!! Although, I also found a priest in my travels locally that all but required his membership to vote Republican... which meant voting for Donald Trump, someone I knew would destroy our republic!!! The Catholic Church is starting to resemble the protestant church in its fragmentation and, for a returning Catholic, the confusion has been stunning!!! Thank you for your sanity and central position today that drops the temperature in our conversation. Please stay around on cyberspace to help us navigate these turbulent times!!!
My recommendation is to read the Church Fathers, Doctors of the Church, Church Councils, the Papal Bulls and the Catechism and listen to various stances in the Church while praying for the Holy Spirit for His Seven Gifts.
There is a right way but neither party captures it entirely. There is also a hierarchy of moral perogatives and we must follow this.
Do not lean on your own understanding, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind. Do not expect to stay as you are, but grow and let God trim you that you may bear good and better fruit and more abundantly than ever before.
Seeking the Truth is a life-long quest, but there are 2000 years of gifts left to aid us, and remember the Saints are real people and you can ask them for aid. You have a guardian angel whose purpose is to guide you and protect you. And above all, God Himself is your Heavenly Father, and Christ ever the Good Shepherd over you and your life. Trust Him.
Go where prudence, conscience and the Spirit move you. Follow Christ, but He will speak through Sacred Scripture, Sacred Tradition, and His Church`s Magisterium. Doctrine develops but it never ruptures from the past.
Finally go neither right nor left but follow the straight and narrow road that trust in God while calling us also to do whatever He tells us to, knowing He is God and we are not, and He knows what He is about.
Or if you like, I can try to help to share who in my admittedly fallible judgement some good quality sources. If you wish it, I am happy to help but feel free also to say no if prudence and God say not to.
God bless you my sister in Christ. With Holy Mother Mary, in Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ`s Most Holy Name. Amen.
Lord Jesus, I trust in You!
First work on not caring about politics - just render unto Caesar what is Caesar’s.
@@janet4232 We live under a system where we have a say that makes a difference and can contribute to moral or immoral ends. Where we know we can do something to oppose great, public, and pervasive evil by moral means we ought to. To know how to do that well requires taking the time and effort to be informed on moral principles and the nature of specific candidates and the nature of our role as Catholic citizens. Our Eternal King still demands fealty. Remember in whos image and likeness Ceasar is made. So within the bounds of morality, where evil is active, we ought to oppose it to help our society conform to Christ and God`s Holy Will.
If we fail to oppose an obvious and widespread ongoing evil, we may be guilty of the sin of negligence. This is because we knowingly choose to do nothing and so allow evil to grow where we could have done something to actively oppose it. Sins can be both by commission or omission, this is a sin of omission.
If however this is truly the best moral action as you can tell in your prudence and conscience, you are following the good as best you judge it. But we must be continually developing and growing, don`t be a coward or slothful.
Fight the good fight of faith!
Sally, just to touch on one point you made, that of voting Republican. I had been doing so for 50 years but the light bulb has finally gone off or I should say I finally discerned what is going on in Washington D.C. and that is whatever party is in power, whatever politician wins, there will be no change because there is only one party with two wings, the R's and the D's and between them the essence is the same. So what do I do? What I do is no longer vote because I learned that my vote if futile because IF my vote counts and the individual for whom I voted won there will be no difference in political outcomes but what is most distressing is I now know that voting is futile because the outcome is fixed before it begins. The last two national elections have taught me it is almost as legit as professional wrestling!
Maybe we should refrain calling the bishop's proposal as weaponizing communion. It makes them immediately defensive. What is the presupposition interpretation for their proposal?
Forgive my ignorance (and so too the off topic question), but where are these episodes being filmed? As a Bibliophile, I’d love to peruse that library…
I wish the Jesuits in this video would have started from the beginning by addressing whether or not publicly endorsing and campaigning for legalized abortion, after being informed by the bishop of the Church's teaching on abortion, is a mortal sin.
I think it's unfortunate that this has become such a public issue, I'm a sinner, I don't think the particulars should be the subject of opinion for the laity but the objection around weaponisation and politicising seems in stark conflict to the fact Rome has used withdrawal of the Eucharist as a 'weapon' very many times throughout history; excommunication and interdicts.
I'm likely missing some nuance, perhaps teaching has changed. I'm not saying access should or shouldn't have been withdrawn (the laity should tend to neutrality and concern themselves with their own sin / support their Bishop) but politicians (from all sides) are seeped in enough unrepentant blood and curruption of various shades that some being denied access to the Eucharist seems reasonable enough.
Revelation 3:14-16
New American Bible (Revised Edition)
14 “To the angel of the church in Laodicea, write this:
“‘The Amen, the faithful and true witness, the source of God’s creation, says this: 15 “I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either cold or hot. 16 So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.
remember what pope francis says about abortion
@@TedSeeber he spoke very clearly about mafia, that they are excommunicated, you know he did say that, and too, I'm not sure but people who really do abortion, hire the hitman and especially being the hitman are against basic teaching and too human rights, rational thinking based on biological facts, dignity of every person/ unborn life, which means excommunicated because against dogma. If one didn't believe in dogma and acted this way the person is excommunicated. I personally don't think it's wrong to deny communion if things are clear. Mafia being involved in abortion organization is not that much in catholic media discussed, I never heard of that, though it sounds evident. Guess many people on the other hand don't see clearly that Pope Francis is often the opposite of left politics, eg gender ideology, consecration, reality of being a family, freedom,... besides abortion, which is central in left and far left politics today again. So both sides try to fool people who stay loyal with the pope always. People who try to figure out, "hey it is about being merciful", forgetting what he said on abortion several times, and the ones who say he is a liar and corrupt or a coward, opportunistic etc. I guess, that's why he said, don't make a political thing out of the holy eucharist. Seeing him as someone he is not and mixing it with something he is in fact very clear and honest, which meant pre judging the Pope ... I think one should better listen to his words with humility, in context of the subject and in context of his personality/way of speaking and thinking and praying.
Cordileone issues his decree but not one priest has implemented it. Speaker Pelosi remains a regular communicant, often attending even daily Mass. Which makes one think that he and like minded people seek some law against abortion but are also indifferent as to its actual enforcement, as is frequently the case in abortion laws. While Speaker Pelosi actual pursues legislative actions that experience has proven reduce the abortion rate such as paid maternity leave, universal health care and job protections for pregnant workers.
I enjoyed listening to the dialog. I do believe it accomplished one major goal - Get the individual involved. The selection of Fr. Paddy Gilger, SJ, and Fr. Eric Sundrup, SJ as moderators was a successful choice - from my limited perspective. The topic, Communion, sparked an immediate response; therefore, the intent for a dialog was successful. I am confident that I would thoroughly enjoy one-on-one, or one-on-two conversations with these Jesuits!
I appreciate your view. It confirms in me that I think like a Thomist and could never be a Jesuit. That's more of a reflection on me than on you.
No mention of the Eucharist being the Body and Blood , Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. If it’s just a sign or symbol of unity then as Flannery O’Connor said , “to hell with it “
Reverend Fathers with all due respect I hope you take the time to read this comment. With heartfelt charity and due respect I state my case. How is preventing a pro choice person from desecrating the Eucharist which we know as Catholics is the body, blood, soul and divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ weaponizing the Blessed Sacrament???? The only way you could say that denying someone the Eucharist is weaponizing the Eucharist is if you don’t really believe that’s really Jesus Christ. Your right in saying the blessed sacrament is not a prize for the righteous but as far back as The Church has existed starting with St Paul in the New Testament and reaffirmed by countless saints over the last 2,000 years which neither I or you are saints, so we would be guilty of the sin of pride to go against them. Those who partake of Holy Communion (again the real presence of Jesus Christ himself in the flesh) drink judgment upon themselves I highly recommend reading and mediating on 1 Corinthians 11; 27-34.
“But when we are judged by the Lord, we are chastened so that we may not be condemned along with the world.”
-1 Corinthians 11: 32
St Paul here is speaking of those who receive Jesus in a state of mortal sin. Wouldn’t it be the merciful and loving thing of us to stop our brothers and sisters from committing spiritual suicide? If we are coming at it from a standpoint of truly believing in the real presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist then we are not being judgmental or condemning of our neighbor we are simply loving them by stopping them from doing further damage to themselves.
May we all learn from these conversations--thank you so much. We are all part of Christ's body and have to model love and compassion. It's literally what Christ called us to do.
The huge problem with this sort of conversation is that is a settled matter that Catholics who practice ANY mortal sin can not receive Holy Communion, so the victims are those who promote abortion and the bad guys are those who defend the babies and their right to live...yes pure gaslighting, the favorite tactic of those who protect pro-abortion politicians.
For me, a continuing example of the Ignatian Presupposition is the conversation among leaders of various Christian denominations and leaders of different religions.
Framing denial of the Eucharist for support of abortion a “politicization” on the basis of saying “this is an unbalanced application of church teaching” is the politicization. The right to life is the basis of all other rights. It is definitionally the most important. So it would make sense that one would discriminate which teachings should get attention and that abortion is at the top of the list.
The death penalty, racism, etc are in no way on par with abortion. They are categorically different.
Well said, to compare Abortion to "other sins" could be a sin itself. Mercy clearly was\is Gods msg in the Scriptures: Mercy seasons Justice.
If abortion is the most important, then it is not acceptable to refuse to go beyond often ineffective civil sanctions on abortion but oppose proven social programs that are more effective at reducing the abortion rate and protect life.
@@kurt4320 pure consequentialism
@@Southernromanist certainly saying this sin is greater than that sin because of the consequences would be consequentialism.
@@TedSeeber You right to dismiss proven social initiative that protect unborn life as an " inadequate and often misapplied government welfare system" is the same as another Catholic's right to dismiss inadequate, often misapplied and ineffective civil and criminal restrictions on abortion. Catholic layperson can make their own decision on what government actions work and are effective and what are not.
The very first class I took at Fordham was taught by the late Fr. Joseph O'Hare. I loved the way he was encouraging in dialogue and not condemnatory. I thought it was his personal style. Now I realize he was applying "The Ignatian Presupposition" in our debates. Oh, how I love Jesuits!!!
What's with the American flag Guys? How does this represent, or symbolise, Ignatianism in anyway way?
These troubles show the divisions existing in the Church, they don't make new ones. This seems like a very simple issue. Can. 915 "Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion."
I agree this canon speaks of objective sins and not policy positions taken by people in public life.
@@kurt4320 It is however supporting and enabling sin, which is a sin on its own.
@@stimmar143 Public policy decisions are matters of prudential judgment.
@@kurt4320 sure, but they should still be based on moral principles, and I've not heard a satisfactory explanation why abortion is something that should be supported despite the fact that participating it is deemed such an offense that it's worthy of excommunication.
@@stimmar143 And you as a voter certainly have the right vote based on the fact that you have not heard a satisfactory explanation. But denial of Communion to someone because you have not been satisfied with their explanation is another matter.
I believe the problem with this approach is that it isn't acknowledging that one must be in a state of grace to receive communion. I agree that we all, as Chrisitan Catholics, want everyone to be able to eat the Holy Supper together in unity. However, when a politician is so actively pro-abortion - there is truly a problem. The issue of abortion and the issue of immigration (for example) are not really on the same level. Abortion is a very straight forward teaching, and no Catholic should be politically supporting aggressive laws to legalize it. While I agree that the Eucharist should not be politicized - each bishop really needs to be accountable for instructing their parishioners that abortion is a grave sin. And if you are a public politician actively supporting abortion, the bishop needs to tell that individual that receiving communion isn't allowable. I believe the argument that this is politicizing the Eucharist is incorrect. The Bishop of San Francisco is not saying Democrats may not receive communion. Rather he is saying if you are a politician actively promoting abortion - this is a serious public sin. Thus that individual should not be receiving communion until they repent.
Supporting the legality of abortion is against current church POLICY, not church teaching. Participating in abortion is against church teaching.
What did Jesus say?
St Paul's warning, as I read it, is to the individual. Everyone of us must ask our selves if we are worthy to receive Holy Communion before we step forward to receive.
By most standards of repentant sinners, Ron DeSantis and others of his ilk, should also be denied communion for their horrific treatment of the " less of these" immigrant s.
Why? Whom did they kill?
Seriously? Horrific? SMH
blessedrthepoor - You compare Abortion (baby killing) to undocumented immigrants? The immigrants who die are not killed by anyone but themselves when trying to come into our country. This is rich.
The politicians you have deemed " not worthy" haven't killed anyone either.
General Church teaching is that if you are not in an state of grace then you are to stand back from communion and if you approach with no state of grace then you’d cause your own demise.
That’s why you take the sacrament of confession before mass
I would say clear cut supporting the butchering of children until 9 months is "persevering in manifest grave sin". Also how can you compare in good conscience compare tearing a child limb by limb to a restrictive immigration policy. Canon 915 is quite clear. That is not politicizing the Eucharist but following Canon law. On the contrary disobedience to Canon law is politicizing the Eucharist.
Why do American Bishops focus so much on the unborn, while not caring about those already born(immigrants, queers, women, marginalized, homeless, etc.)? Being anti-abortion is NOT really equivalent to being pro-life(from womb to tomb)!
Some priest does not read the scriptures. Clearly the Fr who talks about weaponizing the Eucharist when a Catholic is denied did not read this scripture verse from 1 Cor 11 " Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. 28 Let a man examine himself, and so eat of the bread and drink of the cup. 29 For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body eats and drinks judgment upon himself. " . To act of the Cardinal is one of charity and it is only those who can not accept this teaching that continues to rationalize such act as "weaponizing.". It is true that the Eucharist is a medicine for the soul but one has to go through the Sacrament of Reconciliation and be in a state of grace. And there is a way that a Catholic still receives blessing during communion by approaching the priest and crossing his hands. THe national shaming that the priest are saying is initiated by the politicians themselves who profess their Catholic faith while in opposition to what Christ teaches. Stop watering down the teachings of Christ. Its as plain as that. As Catholics we share in the prophetic role of Christ for the love of the sinners and that includes all of us.
So Jesuit nuance says to allow anyone who says they are catholic despite their actual beliefs to receive communion. How do we respond to Saint Paul's admonition in sacred scripture that reception of communion in a state of mortal sin makes one guilty of the blood of the Lord? How does giving the benefit of the doubt to someone who's public statements and actions display manifest and grave sin that is directly contrary to 2000 years of actual Church teaching regardless of how one might interpret the Pope's statement so that it sounds like he is contradicting actual Church teaching. I can certainly understand why there is such a wide dichotomy even amongst Jesuits given that some appear to be completely inline with actual Church Teaching and Jesuit spirituality (say Father Joseph Fessio) and then other Jesuits who definitely seem to contradict actual Church teaching in numerous areas but are provided cover under the guise of "poor wording" or the whole "conservative versus liberal" approach. It's no wonder that we have scandal that rocks the Church with homosexual priests, sexual abuse, synodal process that promote rupture, priests/bishops/cardinals who make statements and take actions that attempt to sacramentalize same sex unions or a female priesthood, and so much more with this type of Jesuitical thinking. It reminds me of when Jesus points out how the priests of the Temple used the cleverness of their minds with regard to the corban rules to disregard their obligations to their parents. Nuanced morality that winks at actual clear teaching seems to be the area of expertise for the rulers of a fallen world and not those who are supposed to be the vicar of Christ in the same fallen world. You had a chance to speak up and provide clear catholic teaching and instead repeat a novel interpretation that allows manifest sinners to remain in sin while telling them that they remain in communion with Christ and His Church. I don't see how nuanced interpretation and selective application of Church teaching is helping to bring sinners to redemption when they remain in their sin; that is not what Jesus taught, He forgave the sins and told the sinner to stop sinning and follow Him.
Hello, Having been educated by the Jesuits and even having taught at a Jesuit university for a few years, (over fifty years ago) this program caught my eye. The discussion of the reception of the Eucharist is not a political but rather a theological and religious issue. It is not surprising that the two Jesuit priests would prefer that the Ignatian dialectic be applied to all moral questions with predictable results. But if all else fails to persuade, confuse the interlocutor with casuistry and epikeia. Sadly, we have all seen so many Jesuits and Jesuit institutions basically apostatize from the Faith that was delivered to the Apostles. Is there a Jesuit university or high school that one can today classify as Catholic? Whether it's the Jesuit pro-abortionist Congressman Drinan or James Martin it has been an ever-accelerating rush toward the abyss. Why would any young man even consider joining such an order -I wonder how many still do. There is hope however in the rise of the many small Catholic colleges that are faithful to the Gospel and the 2000-year-old traditions shared by most Christians be they Catholic, Orthodox, or Protestant.
Steven Griffin, I couldn't have put it more nicely. You are 100% right. However Father Pacwa a Jesuit form EWTN is so different than the rest of his order. I love that guy. I guess he was handpicked by Mother Angelica. Thanks for your post and God bless you
@@Winston-op5de Thanks, Winston. I have often wondered why Fr. Pacwa never withdrew from the Jesuit order what with the faith-killing positions espoused by many members of the Jesuit community. Thought more than once of writing to him and pose the question but never got around to it. It must be very disheartening for him though. Maybe it's his cultural background (is he a Maronite?) or his apologetic style. Even from his days as a young priest his apologetic work was always grounded in the truths revealed in the Bible and Sacred Tradition and not in some Hegelian thesis-antithesis-synthesis methodology especially attractive to principalities and powers. Ad maiorem Dei gloriam!
Go the Bishop ❤️
damn, that one camera moving left and right is so dizzying
We need St Paul and St Peter teachings on sexuality today
Thank you for this intelligent dialog about a very divisive subject. I appreciate this series and I hope (and pray) that you continue it. As a member of the Episcopal Church, our Church's position on abortion is essentially pro-choice. As a physician, I know that abortion ends a human life. There are no easy solutions to this debate. Does Fr. Paddy have St. Ignatius Loyola socks? Does he have St. Augustine of Hippo socks as well?
There is an extremely clear and easy solution to this debate. Jesus would not support the killing of the unborn.
@@samuelbuckingham6216 You have put it so clearly in a few words. Thanks and God Bless you.
Dr. Farnk, there is an easy solution. Christians in general should follow the TRUTH which is Jesus Christ Himself. God (the Trinity) makes every child, I'm sure you agree. Would Jesus be for Abortion (or putting it nicely: Choice). The destruction of that Child before birth? Should Christians fight to defend the innocent Children? As a physician, think about it.
The episcopal church is wrong
That’s sad that a religion thinks killing the unborn is ok.
Fathers, I agree with some of the points you make, but here is the reality, especially for those Catholics that practice the faith. I am a Septegenarian. I see and hear the President of the United States champion causes that are in complete opposition to Church teaching (yes, I know, they all do it.) But, this President on more than one occasion pulls out the "my Catholic Faith" card. I do not live too far from his home Parish ( to remain unnamed.) President Biden announces unbridled support for Abortion and access to abortion, and in the newspaper, and on TV, there is a photograph of him glad-handing the priest, both are all smiles. Now one can conclude he is using said moment for politics, but what does that picture say to the old woman saying the rosary at Church, or the young person in college? That is the issue. I know we have all sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, but it seems to me most Bishops and the Church give politicians a special pass. Perhaps the answer is not denying communion, but the Bishops and Priests not being afraid to say, more publically, that the President, despite proclamations about his Catholicism, is going against Church teaching. I felt the same way when Trump was obsessed with his stupid wall and drumming up fear of all immigrants. The message, as relates to politicians, seems to be "Forgive me Lord for I have sinned. But, I have a very good excuse." Help us laity deal with these issues, please. Politics is poisoning the Church in America.
The Eucharist is not to be given to people in open and public defiance of the principles of God. It is medicine for sinners, but it isn’t a cheap token for people that ignore and openly are in defiance against something like the sanctity of life.
I am appallled by this conversation. I Was once an admirer of the Order and their heroic martyrs for the truths of the Faith. They now, in their publications and with such as these two priests ,are in the process of undermining the Faith and destroying the Church which the great St. Ignatius Loyola founded his order to defend, even to the death. Knowingly supporting the killling of the child in the womb is a mortal sin , and one must not receive communion until the sin is confessed with a firm perpoise of amendment. How is it possible that public persons such as Biden and Pelosi can claim to be Catholic whilst actually promoting the evil of abortion and then can publicly be given Holy Communion by a priest , by a Bishop, even in the presence of a Pope - another Jesuit .!
My advice is - don't think like a Jesuit . Shun them like the Plague !
1
Yes,Christ did sit down with sinners,but at the end He would always say,"Go,and sin no more"".It was never a touchy-feely attitude toward sin!
"Productive advocate for prolife causes across the spectrum..." YOU'VE HAD 50+ YEARS TO DO THAT and you've done nothing.
Think like an Jesuit? I will think like Jesus…have the mind of Christ.
Gracias a Dios que están haciendo esta serie, se los agradezco mucho. Es sumamente interestante y estoy aprendiendo mucho. Humildemente pido que Dios me los bendiga.
Nothing like the sanctimonious pontificating of modernist Jesuits.
If they are against 2,000 years of Church teachings, then yes! I would say the same about clerics too! Here’s looking at you Jimmy Martin!
It was not until the 19th century that there was any discussion in the Church as to what the civil law should say about abortion.
Listening, to your talks. Horrified that Fr Horan OFM, his response.
If course Our Lord dined with those in sin and the Pharisees. But He did teach them the truth.
The Samaritan woman at the well. He taught her the real truth and then said "Go and sin no more". God made us in His own Image and Likeness... So where does the aborted baby for in!!
I am so grateful when I did my midwifery our tutor opened the 1st lesson with: " from day1 we will refer to life in the womb as a baby and NEVER as a foetus. No one in our class would consider or promote abortion.
Please listen again with an own mind and good spirit. Perhaps you might find a way to support real solutions that respect both women and the unborn.
Thanks Gail, I do think anyone who has had an abortion should not be deprived of The Eucharist if they are truly sorry before God and seek His Mercy. And that ofcourse is between their soul and God
I do think its shocking for Speaker Pelosi and President Biden, so called practising Catholic advocates abortion right up to term. The method of abortion is is extremely painful and inhumane.
An abortionist says the baby is a clump of tissue.... but sympathises with a devastated Mom who has lost a stillborn babe or miscarriage.
Speaker Pelosi defends the womans rights... Gail who defends the babies rights. I like to think I will Gail.
Thanks for your thoughts.
I need to stress, I dont judge the Mom who had an abortion and makes her peace with God.
Some women have numerous abortions. Babies cant be aborted as a form of contraception.
Have a blessed day, Gail.
@@gailsockwell-thompson7322 how about this real solution - support a ban on abortion in all circumstances but in cases of threat to the mother’s life. Then, make it clear that advocating for abortion in any other circumstance is scandalous mortal sin.
Seems pretty straightforward while respecting women and infants.
@@margaretenglish4326 I think both of us are intelligent enough to know the difference between advocating abortion, and refusing to restrict it through laws. Neither President Biden nor Representative Pelosi have ever advocated abortion. In fact, they both have looked for ways to lift the burden of unwanted pregnancy from women. As long as pregnancy is seen as a punishment for a natural act and condemning only one party to that punishment, abortion will never be obliterated. It will merely be made difficult for those without means. We as a country need to show that we value life, and that includes the lives of women and children living on the margins. When we expect women to accept poverty as punishment, we guarantee that back alley, abortions will thrive.
It is not amusing that while condemning the right to choose, many will support the very men who have paid for abortions. They’ll find reasons to kneel before those men and accept their behaviors, because at the end of the day it really is more about power than anything else.
Gail, I am sorry I beg to differ, both persons advocate abortion as a womans right. I hope to defend the baby
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
Acts 2:38
Why do you say it is politicization? In the past if we had a known murderer such as Hitler and he presented himself at the communion rail, would we say it was politicization if the priest denied him communion because of his public actions and his stance of non-repentance? It would be a scandal if communion were freely given to him without a public repentance otherwise what does it say for Church teaching? We do have Church "rules" in place for a reason and to publicly flaunt them does nothing for advancing the faith, especially among the young and impressionable. For those who publicly flaunt Church teachings and even do their utmost to advance the cause of evil it is not a political stance to deny them communion but it definitely politicization and scandal for them to publicly present themselves at the communion rail. If they truly feel vindicated and innocent in their position politically, they should approach the priest privately and ask for communion privately and not scandalize others.
I'm sure you would think Stalin and mao should be made to feel welcome but as for those rigids contact the FBI and have them censored online..indeed interned into a re education camp much like Francis had organised for the faithful on China
The Church has always embraced the sinner. More forcefully for the unrepentant. Hence, the wisdom of discipline we find in 1 Cor 5:5.
Wen Shan - the sinner yes but not the sin.
If you support mortal sin like abortion you must repent and change your ways. Do not accept our Lord if you partake in mortal sin. Pretty easy.
Pope St. John Paul II, Pope St. Paul VI and Pope Benedict XVI all said the greatest evil of our time is the loss of the sense of sin. It's so easy to rationalize sin away. St. Paul spoke of the truth that there is sin that is deadly. Our time loves to rationalize this away. The concept that every action is geared towards a "good" will never mean that a sinful choice is a true good and therefore lets' dialogue to find that good. Rape is never good even though the rapist is seeking a : "good" selfish pleasure. Should someone who raped someone receive the body of Jesus without repenting for their sin? Absolutely not. To say yes would mean that God is a liar since in His Word He speaks of deadly sin and that to eat of the Body of Christ unworthily brings condemnation on one's soul. Is murdering one's neighbor a good [self-defense excluded]? Perhaps for the murderer if it gets the neighbor, who is unwanted in their world out of the way, yet morally this action is never a true good. Should such a murderer receive the Eucharist with out repentance? Not according to the Word of God. I always seek to see the good in another person including in what they say with the purpose of understanding where they are coming from. However, the standard for what is the true good was set by God not by Jesuits or any human being. Morally evil actions will never be good. Supporting morally evil actions will never be good. How about asking the living survivors of abortion how they feel about your arguments? They are out there. Listen to their stories. How about asking victims of rape [myself included] and survivors of unwanted pregnancies given up [myself included] how these actions against them were "good". Oh yah, being raped is a good so lets talk about it. Evil is evil period. The Eucharist is medicine but it is communion with the divine. God sets the parameters. You can't receive if you are in the state of serious unrepentant sin. That is God's standard not ours to make, unless again you want to tamper with the Word of God. How can you profane the most sacred Body of Our Lord with such arguments.
It's hard to presuppose the best by my former parish priest and former parish deacon when they ignore the teachings coming from the Vatican and they grumble about Pope Francis. I have withdrawn from parish life because it is untenable for my soul but I have not withdrawn from the teachings of St. Ignatius. I don't know where this quote came from but it is attributed to Diego Lainez and fits well with this video: “While it is true that God could speak by the mouth of an ass, this would be considered a miracle. We are tempting God when we expect miracles. This would certainly be the case in a man who lacks common sense but who hopes to be a success merely by praying for it.”
Steven. I agree that we must respect Our Holy Father Francis. I have always defended him. Besides he is the guarantor of the Deposit of the Faith. The Chair of Peter is what has kept us together for 2,000 years. Look at our protestant brothers and sisters who don't have that and in only 500 years are now divided in 3,500 sects.
@@TedSeeber Don't forget, Pope Francis also denied that he is the Vicar of Christ on earth, a title he disavows.
Check out 1 Corinthians 11: 27
I included Fr Schmitz’s podcast below to shine a light on the dangerous position a public servant places themselves in with decisions against innocence. Mother Teresa’s quote was right on.
If it's done as a way to help them come back to the faith and save their soul, then absolutely.
Ana. How are they going to save their souls by receiving the Holy Eucharist unworthily. Please check the Bible.
Jesus also tells those sinners he dealt with to go and sin no more - its the go and sin no more part that you disregard. Unfortunately your fealty to the Democrat Party is out. Unsubscribe.
Love the way all the barstool theologians show up on the comments pages.
expensive chairs
I thought it was supposed to be unusual for American males to cross their legs like that? Perhaps it's the leather chair ambiance.
Question: Is the "Two Spirits" one of the orgins of the devil on one shoulder, the angel on the other?
Why does the Catholic Church insist that anyone who does not seek to criminalize abortion is "pro abortion"? It's possible to disapprove of something yet believe criminalization is the wrong solution.
Do you support decriminalizing murder?
@@BrendanEReed The RTL Movement does. They are quite clear they seek to not criminalize the woman seeking an abortion at all and do not ask that doctors be charged with murder but only a lesser charge. Take the position if you want that anything less than murder charges against both mother and doctor is pro-abortion, but with that, almost every Republican politician fails your test.
But abortion is murder
@@michellemcdermott2026 But the RTL Movement does not seek to make it murder. So even the top Pro-Life people don't met your test.
For a slightly more facetious comment than some others: I spent the first couple of minutes after the blooper-setup wondering how the "politicisation" pronunciation would be handled, very amused by the payoff 😄😄😄
“Abortion is a big issue, as well”
The USCCB says it is preeminent. You are equivocating when you make equal the support for some policy that may have a downstream negative effect and advocating for a policy that directly increases abortions. She is denying Church teaching. All this dancing around is just a way to excuse obstinate sin. Why even have a Catechism?
Archbishop Cordileone tried a pastoral approach for years. He gave the best presupposition to her all that time. This wasn’t knee jerk.
I know I am not perfect, so stop using the Holy Father’s quote on me…I am a sinner…but I go to confession before receiving Eucharist when I am aware of a grave sin. I keep seeing the Holy Father’s quote used as a way to create a false dichotomy. We are all sick and sinners…it’s just that some recognize it and accept the Church’d teachings. Others publicly flout them and create scandal for all. When did sanctity stop being the goal of the Church?
No catholic excluded from Canon Law be you President - Vice President..-Speaker- Senate or Congress...Mr & Mrs.Common catholic. No exemptions
And canon law does not address public policy
@@TedSeeber the evil is the act of abortion. The lay faithful have the duty of constructing the proper legal regimen.
@@TedSeeber we are all guilty because it is tough work that is not aided when prelates insert themselves in matter outside their expertise. Better they put more attention in protecting innocent life by calling for a taxi when they had too much to drink.
Thank you. I am going to listen to this episode over and over to help me internalise its message. I can see how taking this approach with all sorts of tension inducing subjects could lead to forward movement and the avoidance of getting stuck in the trenches and covered in mud. Shouting "I'm right" or "You're wrong" achieves absolutely nothing positive.
Fraya Smyth - That is what is being done today, the shouting I mean. Look at the statistics: Church attendance down, believe in the Divinity of Christ presence in the Eucharist down, Confessions down, vocations: almost non-existent. And you believe if we all believed in Abortion and follows the program of our woke culture, everything would reverse? It would be quiet, of course, but you think that people would believe in the divinity of Christ in the Eucharist, Our churches would no longer be empty, we would have more vocations, wow. Incredible what going along with the woke culture would do for us? The talk we just heard is why the Churches are empty, etc, etc. The TLM is restricted and it is the only Churches where you see lots of families. Lot of reverence, etc. So if we just shut them down, everything will be OK? Read it again and think about it. The Church is about our Lord primarily, then His mother and our Saints. We have to go back to our 2,000 year old traditions. That is what we need not following the culture. That is what most of the protestant churches have done in 500 years and look, they are divided into 3,500 different sects. Do you want that to happen to us? Of course the Church of Christ is here to stay as He promised but since it is run by human being we have problems from time to time. It is true the Holy Spirit is guiding the Church but we humans mess it up from time to time.
Freya Please read your bible. It is not about getting along. Jesus is the TRUTH. It is about the Truth. The crazy woke culture is destroying society and Christians are supposed to go along with the program to get along?
What a vague vanilla commentary, sounds exactly like Kamala Harris talking points.
Those who apply abortion as the sole criteria for their vote, conveniently absolve themselves from responsibility to consider other tenets of Catholic social teaching - caring for the poor, health care, providing work opportunities, mending immigration policy, and tending to the environment. Such individuals will therefore cast their lot with candidates of questionable character, just because they flash the label, “pro-life.” And then, there is little thought given as to how these children will be supported in their development.
This Catholic Democrat proudly supports President Biden, who applies his compassion for people and desire for bipartisanship to his job. His Catholic faith has helped him through enormous personal tragedy and a near-death experience. Yet, some so-called priests grant themselves the authority to pass judgment upon him. My conscience is clear; more so because I reject the condemnations of Altman, Meeks, Goring, Gigliotti, and others of their ilk who cover their self-aggrandizing posturing with Catholic vestments. Individuals of this sort are responsible for tearing the Church apart, not devout Catholics such as Joe Biden, Nancy Pelosi, or John Kerry.
Thomas, speaking of polarization, who is doing it. Just read your message and you will find out. Please don't equate Murdering innocent little angels in the womb to the other things you mention. Murder is murder. Amen to that.
@@Winston-op5de Winston, thanks for making my point for me. A “pro-life” agenda has to combine abortion with these other issues which you, too, find easy to dismiss. And those who resort to the “innocent little angels” speech refuse to establish policies that will lessen the possibility of said “angels” being aborted in school by some lunatic with an automatic weapon. (Especially with all that campaign cash from the NRA!) That is called murder - and I won’t say “Amen” to that!
In an ideal world, those who flatter themselves as “pro-life” (a neat cliche) would offer solutions which included women’s access to counseling, sex education, and Ob/gyn care that could lessen the need for abortion, and therefore lower the numbers. Anyone who thinks that overturning Roe v Wade will end abortion is living in a fool’s paradise.
Denying politicians communion is just the bishops being politicians.
Why doesn't anyone talk about supporting the free will of the individual as opposed to their civil rights? - While I am not pro abortion I do support the free will of the individual in this instance
The priests mentioned how there are problems with both political parties abiding by the doctrine of the respecting the dignity of every person throughout their lives. Do the Bishops refuse communion to the person who work to decrease aid for those who are marginalized in our society? If we were to be honest, how many are truly worthy to receive the Body of Christ? I myself could never place myself in a position of denying a sacrament to a person that I felt was unworthy.
Russell, unfortunately most of our Bishops today seem to be following society and will agree with you. And we wonder what is wrong with our Church today. Look what society has done to our brothers and sisters in Christ at protestant denominations who are accepting the world and in the process are destroying their churches. Sadly the Methodist Church was broken down in two by the people who adopted the world instead of the Christian way of life. We have the same element trying to destroy our Church. We have to pray and please go to an Adoration Chaple and ask our Lord to Keep protecting our Church. Please respect the Pope even if you don't agree with him 100% of the time. He is Chosen by the Holly Spirit to give us unity. Without the Chair of Peter, we'll have a hard time. That is what give us unity. Pray for our Pope and the Jesuit Order. Pray for vocations. And Hope that we'll bet OK.
In the Catholic Church who has the greater authority; the pope or the archbishop of San Francisco?
"We do not go to Holy Communion because we are good; we go to become good." ~ Saint John Bosco
"The Eucharist is not a prize for the perfect, but medicine for sinners." ~ Pope Francis
"Go often to Holy Communion. Go very often! This is your one remedy." ~ Saint Thérèse of Lisieux
"The greatest love story of all time is contained in a tiny white Host." ~ Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen
All of those quotes are wonderful but taken out of context as you have within this current discussion leads one to hear it's perfectly fine to receive the Body of Jesus in the state of serious sin. Pope St. John Paul II, Pope St. Paul VI and Pope Benedict XVI all said the greatest evil of our time is the loss of the sense of sin.
i hope that in the future religious people are able to humanize women that get abortions and that they understand their situation. there are so many problems in this world and its super easy to judge others than to love them and understand them.
Alejandra Isabel - The Church of Christ never judges, It has never condemn women who seek abortions. Neither has Jesus. God is aware of their circumstances. The Church condemns the sin never the sinner. Pro-live groups throughout the World try to help women who may be desperate to seek a solution. They offer other alternatives to killing the cild, such as adoption if they can't keep their child, etc. They help them though the process and if they decide to keep the child they work with them after the child is born. I feel that most religious people who are for life feel the same way. The Church, helps women who have had abortions, get over the guilt. They are two organizations whose names I don't recall at the moment who help them with therapy. This is all free. Where as the other side make millions on their "business" who are even subsidized by the government.
If you grant the state the right to forbid abortion, you thereby grant the state the right to require abortion.
What about politicians who support death penalty? Doesn't the sanctity of life holds value for everyone? What about divorced Catholic politicians?
to quote Lawrence Meisel "that is rich" Really.....
Your interview shows why the Jesuits had 36,000 priests in 1965 and less than 15,000 now.Every faithful Catholic know what you are.
You didn't answer the question.
What about child abusers and apologists and enablers for child abusers...............ooops......that is the whole catholic church..........sorry ........my bad.
Catholic priest from the state of Wisconsin Fr. James Altman said,
"You cannot be a Catholic and a Democrat." Meaning if you're a Catholic Christian and you're registered Democrat and you support abortion rights then you cannot receive Holy Communion. Well who is he to judge? There's not one single person who's perfect I've sinned and I cannot cast the first stone. The only person that's perfect and that is Jesus Christ. Jesus encourages us to acknowledge our sinful ways and to repent
Pope Pius could not condemn Hitler and this guy can condemn Pelosi. That's rich.
Lawrence Meisel - What? Pope Pius XII was a Nazy? His Holiness did certainly condemned Hitler in every way. But Hitler, to my knowledge, was not receiving communion. right? And "that guy" I guess you mean Archbishop Cordileone, did a great job trying to protect Pelosi's soul by not given her communion. Do you know what happens when you receive Holy Communion unworthily? If you don't please read you bible.
Jesus said take "this, "all" of you" It wasn't a request, but an order. He didn't say only the perfect, but all must receive it. It's in His honor and remembrance that you do.
Are you forgetting that 1 Corinthians 11:29 says you eat and drink damnation on yourself if you receive our lords body and blood in an unworthy state. It would be wrong for a priest to help heap another mortal sin upon another existing mortal sin that would be doing no favour to the communicant.
Anthony You are an amazing salesman. You twist his word to get a different meaning. Hopefully you know what you are doing.