about the OLED thing: the old OLED VR headsets where just OLED, not micro OLED. The new microOLEDs manufacturing is very different from traditional OLED. It's made on silicon just like microchips, they are basically self emitting microchips. there were also some really good benefits that LCDs had at the time compared to the oleds that we had back then
As someone who still uses the OG HTC vive set and had to replace cabinet doors, monitor screens and even a whole foldable desk, I can confirm the old vive wand is a strong boi
I got one myself too, I've chucked them into walls accidentally and all it did was turn off. I just picked it back up, turned it back on, and it was like nothing happened.
upgraded from the og vive bundle to buying the og pro headset standalone to now i have the vive pro 2 bundle and i can say i dont mind that it doesnt have oleds on it and ive been running it atleast 8 hours every night no issues after a year or more
I've had the opposite experience. I've had to replace my controllers several times. Twice from losing tracking constantly and once from not having vibration working anymore.
What switch? There's a grand total of 1 headset available that has Micro OLED and it's pretty costly. Even more costly if you don't already own base stations and controllers. Well, there's a 2nd one but that other one is garbage. The Arpara 5K which at this point is essentially a scam product.
About the Eye and Face Tracking: we have open source solutions now that have been getting so good :> Even the beyond has eye tracking through this stuff. It's nice.
@@ky5666its called project babble. I will say it is early days for it, and not a lot of documentation has been made yet. I still need to build my rig but essentially you use the same hardware for eye tracking but pointed at your lips.
The vive wands were like nokia phones in regards to the outer shell but man that was a time when a lot of games were still teleport based and the trackpad was notorious for being able to get pressed-in permanently from just clicking it too much to teleport. There used to be guides online for opening up the controller to replace the piece of rubber that connected the pad to the button (because it wore out from over use) Of my original 2 I got with the vive, it happened to one, I fixed it, then it happened to the other, fixed that, then the first one eventually broke again so I bought a new single wand and then the 2nd one also broke again eventually. I swore those controllers off the moment valve announced the knuckles lol
I stumbled on a guy on Reddit. Said his buddy who loaned his OG Vive, managed to break the OG vive wand by doing an uppercut. That guy must have been eating lots of spinach
Umm HP isn't just a printer company, they make computers. :) I think they made computers before they ever started making printers, but I might be wrong about that. Great video,,, lil sad, lil exciting
Ye but their laptops suck. Cmon HP, fix them screen hinges. And make it easier for customers to open and fix the damn things. I work as a PC technician on the free time and seeing the HP logo let's me know I am in for a ride.
@@boogie3718I've had several cheap but powerful HP laptops, they always fail at the hinges. I managed to keep using one from 2018 up until last year when the harddrive finally failed because drivers. but it's always the hinges.
I kinda wish you talked about the whole array of WMR headsets. Cheap as hell PCVR inside-out tracking that worked well enough for most experiences. I was rocking a diy google cardboard+freepie+splashtop setup that I made for shits and giggles, and then I bought the lenovo explorer. My god I still miss that thing, flip up, comfy, small, light, good fov, good colors. Honestly they could have just had some self-tracking controllers like the the quest pro ones do today, I would still be using it. Sadly the cable is propietary and broke off, and getting a replacement is a nightmare. Bought a dell visor to replace it, and then the year after sold it to buy myself a quest 2 which I still use. The acer and the lenovo hmds were just what I envisioned vr to be, and the reason why I'm now saving up for either bigscreen beyond or the next light headset.
you can get the cv1 for like less than 100 usd nowadays. it's great for tinkering. cheap enough to not have a panic attack if you mess up; good enough to actually use as a headset.
Unfortunately, a replacement cable is it's Achilles heel. While you may get lucky and find a working used one for under $50USD, finding a brand new one will easily cost you nearly $100USD. My current cable no longer manages to connect as USB3.0, and I'm kinda afraid it'll fray enough to no longer connect.
I hope we get a new sturdy generation of headsets, I've gone through 5 index's already and several controllers. It's been a very expensive hobby.. I don't even know why my gear keeps fizzling out either when I watch people do flips and shit, throwing their headset across the room, or landing on their face and I've still had to replace mine more than them
3:46 Vive keeps selling stuff until they run out of stock I think. For some time, the Vive Pro was discontinued in the US but still sold in Europe. Now it's discontinued everywhere except in UK.
OLED (not micro OLED) was neat for its time, but ultimately could not overcome the screen door effect. You could also say brightness was a concern, but you really could not overcome how far apart the pixels are on standard OLED displays. Just one of those oddities that is only an issue for VR displays, rather than TV screens or phones.
The PSVR 2 is only regular OLED and I cannot see the screen door effect on it. What we needed was higher resolution, not an inferior in every way except subpixel layout display technology.
Been using the Vive Pro. Thanks to it having 78% more pixels than on the OG Vive, I sometimes forget the SDE is even there. Except when I need to read super small text. Even then, I can manage. Your mileage may vary.
3:11 I'll do this bit for you: I went from OG Vive to Vive Pro. Still own a Vive Pro up to now and I don't intend to upgrade anytime soon. I've spent some entire days using it for the virtual giant curved monitor. It might not fit everyone, but when it does fit you, it feels amazing. I definitely prefer it to the Vive Pro 2.
VR feels like it is being frustratingly let down in many aspects. It doesn't need more leaps forward- it needs the tech that could be made available and paired together more neatly right now. All these separate addons that make for a clunky experience and a need for games to work without them, which ultimately means they are always afterthoughts. When we get a popular enough base that has body, face, eye tracking in from the start and it isn't hot garbage, then we'll see some magic. Otherwise VR will keep struggling.
Don't forget that on the Omnicept, HP never delivered on their promises for face and eye tracking software for consumers since not enough enterprise customers bought it. I bought what was essentially a $1700 paperweight.
The Hydra and the OSVR HDK were Razer's foray(s) into VR and VR-adjacent markets. The Razer Hydra is a Wiimote and Nunchuk-style input device that uses a short range magnetic field to detect six axis of freedom for each hand, launching in 2011 and purpose-built for desktop gameplay instead of VR. While capable for its time and even today, the biggest downside of the Razer Hydra is the fact the controllers are wired. Not to eachother like a Wii remote, but to their base station and your computer, significantly limiting freedom of motion. In spite of this, many early videos about VR - especially those prior to the first Vive - use the Razer Hydra as their input device of choice for its affordability and availability. There's also about 200 flatscreen games that support the Razer Hydra, including some Valve games like Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead 2, and Portal 2. OSVR on the other hand stands for Open-Source VR, and was spearheaded by Razer and Sensics with the goal of creating a standard for hardware manufacturers and software developers to follow to better guarantee cross-compatibility across the board. A mantle to be later taken by SteamVR. The HDK or Hacker Development Kit series of about 6 headsets (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0) are all pretty similar to my understanding. The 1.4 has two 960 by 1080p OLED displays, a fixed IPD of 63.5mm, and released in August of 2015. The 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0 should still be supported by SteamVR, but I have not found conclusive results on the other headsets. The coolest thing about the OSVR series is it's an open standard, meaning you can - in theory - build and use your own headset today, and have it just work, provided you did everything right. The biggest downside of OSVR is it's not a consumer product, meaning you're expected to do a lot more tinkering and maintenance to get it working, and keep it working. Of course nowadays, OSVR is outdated and the concept has been done with much more modern specs by projects like Relativty. Both products are discontinued in both hardware and software development.
Actually OG vive wands, if you drop them the battery connector on the inside will likely pop out and you have to take the thing apart to reconnect it. Haha
With recent launch of Apples Vision Pro, I hope Samsung, Sony, Meta, Pico and Valve, will back to VR big now. The main thing of Vision Pro, most incredible resolution and microled posssible, super powers eye tracking, hand gestures and capability of integration with windows desktop
Thanks so much, Boneless. Loved the video, but knew I would. Also makes me appreciate how crazy the trip has been with VR, from the primitive to the grotesque, with a weave of elegance in between. Hate to say, but I agree with @zkp , "no cool box". Sorry, but I think those will be out of the mix, but based on the history you gave, I think we are in for an awesomely exciting ride in the future. Thanks again!😁
even the pimax crystal doesnt have oled... but the qled does look amazing, i just wish they worked more on the local dimming since i feel like it can be more precise
OLED is not microOLED. They're almost a completely different technology and really shouldn't even be compared. microOLED is manufactured on a tiny postage stamp sized piece of silicon in the same way a computer chip is made. Which means you can have a very small, incredibly high pixel density panel in a very small and lightweight headset. Regular OLED panels simply can't do that. They're much larger, much lower pixel density, less bright and just not really suitable for VR. Which is why even regular LCD panels have surpassed them in newer headsets like the Quest 3. It's a relic of the VR past.
of course most of the stuff is discontinued, most are pcvr only wired fresnel lenses vr headsets that cost 2k+ dollars, so in comparison even if it's not oled, i would rather have 4 quest 3 than any of the vr headsets listed here, with better resolution, lenses and wireless pcvr, yeah, does not have face tracking but.. that's a VRC only mostly thing, there are more stuff in vr than only social apps i would rather buy a katwalk than a fbt for the price nowadays
Hamburgers great viceo as per usuall quality is getting better and better its lovely to watch thanks for making me remember the good ol days from the dk 1 to the quest 3 ... damn what a ride VR tech already had and hopefully will continue to have
The video title is kinda misleading. It makes think us 'oh VR is going downhill lately'. But it's just all old VR headsets stopped with production. You should say more 'Goodbye old VR headsets' in video. That is what video talked about all older gen headsets. Stop choose confusing title makes us think everything will go wrong.
The biggest problem I'm seeing with VR and why things are being discontinued is the early investor hype followed by quick dives (but most of the time gradual) in investor sentiment. Look at HTC stock price over the last 10 years or so. Most other big names (big names for your average VR consumer) in VR don't make their money solely and/or by no means a majority from VR with Valve and Meta coming to mind. So right now we are in a shrinking VR market because of that early investor hype. Eventually it will pick back up and I am excited to see how other big companies entering the market (like Apple) will compete with Meta, Valve, and HTC.
I had a DK1. Not much actually worked for it, but some bods existed to add VR to games like Borderlands 2. Didn't run well, but it was neat to be trying out VR long before most had.
In my experience, The Vive Cosmos isnt that bad. I haven't had many problems with it its been quite reliable. The software is pretty bad though, but the tracking is much better than it seems to have started out as. Sure there have been plenty of moments where the IO tracking freaks out or the headset just becomes completely disorientated but i do this in a room with an entire wall basically being one big mirror, and it still somehow works 90% of the time. But it does have some flaws, the biggest being the software and the lenses but considering i live in a country where pretty all my options are on this list. Im quite happy with it.
Regular OLED has mura (per-pixel imperfections that mean each pixel looks slightly different and results in a static "pattern" over your vision) and relatively large gaps between pixels. Additionally the phone screens early HMDs had to rely on had a pentile sub-pixel layout which is not well suited to being viewed close up. People complained on mass about these aspects in particular of the Rift and Vive hence the switch. Micro OLED mostly solves all these issues. They are designed specifically with XR applications in mind so have a superior sub-pixel layout. I'd still like to see panels with the sub-pixel layout used in the Steam Deck OLED and Switch OLED built at higher pixel densities apropriate for HMD as they would be great as a more affordable option. You'd still have mura, but the SDE would be much improved.
I can not agree on the Vive wands. The touchpads kept breaking for me. i had 3 pairs of vive controllers over the span of 1 year. My index controllers i have for 5 years now, still work perfectly.
well that's pretty sad. if only major games put a VR port.. ik it's not that easy, but when we have many billion $ companies it's still surprising they don't care about it.
I love that this video was recommended to me (I mean the title) literally 2 days after I got my VR and feeling physical pain when giving away all this money to make my dream come true
Still using original Vive now and it still working fine without any problems. >controllers can handle a little blood It's true, never had any issues with them even when smacked to the wall.
I don't know if its just my Quest 2, but the display on that is absolute ass and I never realized till i recorded some Blade and Sorcery footage via Virtual Desktop. Like seriously, my computers' display will be super crisp and my actual vr display will be worse than my real life vision when i don't have glasses, and yet, it works, well enough that i dont really feel the need to upgrade.
i think ive actually tried the DK1 before at some tech convention. it was my first time hearing of a working real life VR headset. it was kind of cool but the demo they had on was just a static 2d 360 degree image so i was not super impressed. I think you couldn't really look up and down either, just left and right. it's been a long time though so i could be misremembering
dude its funny, i dont have a vr, i never play vrchat (my pc is trash and i really want to play vr chat), but i really enjoy your videos, keep with that man, they are wonderful
It's a tad ironic that these days one of HP's podium products in terms of overall quality is a VR headset that you can no longer buy new. All aside, I think at this point the only headset I'm generally excited about is the Bigscreen Beyond, and even that has its hurdles-a lack of inside-out tracking, the limitations of the bespoke design, a lack of included speakers off the bat and the finicky nature of the optics hold it back and I think they'd do better with a more full-featured, bigger brother that takes up more face space to add back some of those little niceties. That and the state of headset-independent consumer face tracking leave a lot to be desired for someone who uses social VR a lot. Also, I petition to just get rid of trident cable designs. I want a driver box, especially after I've fallen victim to the results of poorly cooled and cramped signal processing chips. I have a feeling that a dedicated device to redrive the signal and supply power would also help with awkward cable reaches and draping methods. Wireless is also an option but it puts a limiter on display stream quality and playtime that isn't particularly suited for a small room PCVR user like myself or people who get on VR as a multiple-hour outing.
You might be interested in the consumer Forte VFX1 and CyberPuck controller that was out in the late 90's for pc. I had the puck, which was a 2 button joystick and a gyro. It didn't need software or drivers due to the simple design and pc game standards of the time. I bought the puck at best buy and used it on an acer aspire pizza box style green pc. Dark Forces was fun to play, but the arm holding up the controller got tired fast. Don't even start on Descent. Oof! I think there were a couple other hmds you could buy at the time as well. Hope all this adds to your fun of VR.
Not going to lie, I was always under the impression that Yamaha did motorcycles first and then did instruments because precision machining, I didn't know they were a musical instrument company first.
My Beyond came in a neat box. Not a pelican case or anything. But it *is* neat. You only have to fight with steam vr itself software wise too. Well, at least until the ET VR kits become available.
the pimax crystal's visuals are pretty good too, also (supposedly) comes with full face tracking and eye tracking, but the software is bad, as always. also, the software for the PCVR mode seems to cause a ton of problems with the visuals, depite it being the best headset for visuals that I have tried while not bugging out, as it might decide to bug at any time and give you a glitched out view, just like having a episode of Cyberphycosis or Relic Malfunction, in Cyberpunk 2077.
I replaced the Index with the crystal, and it's definately a good upgrade, but now I have to restart pimax services at least once a day, which really ruins immersion, unless you like the feeling of having a glitched view, which is cyberpunk asf
Oculus got me into VR, not wearing the headset but what they did bringing it to a more consumer end POV. So when FB/Meta bought them out it crushed my soul. I had the GearVR with my Note4 though, and that would later lead me to the OG Vive and eventually the Index. I want to upgrade, but it feels like we're at the weird stage of VR Stuff dieing off, but new stuff being on the horizon.
I still daily drive a Rift CV1 haha, its still a decent little headset for how cheap you can get them, I remember back in HS wanting one so bad when they came out too, the only bad thing about it is that the cable is a pain to get a hold of, you pretty much need to just buy an entire headset to get a new one at this point because the cable itself is as much as a headset
I was able to get my hands on a PiMax 8K+, and aside from it's aweful mic and tempermental setup, I love that thing. I didn't get the controllers with it, I just use my Index controllers with, so I don't have to rage about those monstrosities.
I'm rocking a Reverb G2V2, and my only complaint is WMR. This headset is great. Thinking about the Quest 3, mostly just for a bump in visual quality and better passthrough, but if you want a cheap PCVR headset that's built like a brick, than just get a G2. Upgrade the controllers as fast as you can though, the Reverb's tracking isn't quite as bad as reviews lead you to believe, but if you're coming from a Quest 2 you will be dissapointed in the controllers. Visual quality tho, mwah. Perfection. Except for godrays. And the tiny sweet spot. Okay it isn't perfect but for $250 secondhand, ESPECIALLY if you mostly do flight or driving sims, absolutely reccomend.
I found a brand new htc face tracking unit and bought it. I wanted to get it for when I get the Bigscreen Beyond. I might actually have full face tracking Bigscreen Beyond if they decide to bring out the eye tracking kit.
My Oculus Rift is not OLED, I don't understand why people say it's OLED... it's just a weird pentile matrix display that has none of the benefits of OLED... no true black... heck even my old camera from 2013 which does have OLED looks soo much better since there's no competition as it does have true black. Took my Rift apart because it stopped working correctly and yeah, just look like a special LCD display, not OLED. Heck, the Quest 2 has deeper black than the Rift, though still no true black since yeah, LCD but more refined.
After 7 years and thousands of VR Hours, my vive wands finally gave out on me from a shorting ribbon cable 🫡 I bought another pair. Fuck the index knuckles
Man, i went from an index to a vive pro eye and i havent looked back. ive tried everything from a quest pro, varjo aero, and here i am, still stuck on my vive pro eye. Best eye tracking, best face tracking with the vive tracker, and oled really is pretty sexy. sranipal isnt perfect, but its really not that tricky lol. Frankly the only reason im considering getting an Aero again is just for the sheer ppd, i miss it for that :c but it still is a compromise for me. also the omnicept is so sick, but also so sad :c face tracking is awful outta the box, and a lot of that is because hp axed the project. in addition to the HR sensor, there were gonna be EMG sensors in the facial interface that MEASURED YOUR FREAKING CHEEK MUSCLE PULSES. but hp decided that wasnt cool enough, they didnt even give you any kinda sdk for the face tracking either. only eye/HR.
As a person who still uses the original Oculus Rift Cv1, I prefer it waayyyy better than my Oculus Quest 1. Both really nice headsets, but the Quest is a little heavy for my liking, unlike the Cv1. Love the OLED's in them too 😎
No love for Samsung Odyssey+? Inside-out tracking + OLED...it's my baby. The Lenovo Explorer was really what got me into VR because it was so cheap after it got discontinued. Ah, Windows Mixed Reality's failure was its success... And now, everyone and their mom is trying to release mixed reality headsets. Dangit, Microsoft, how did you fail so badly when you were ahead of the curve? Should have either made ACTUAL MIXED REALITY or not used false advertising.
I've owned an oculus rift for a few years now and I'm thinking of upgrading, does anyone know the next step up I should take without selling my arms, legs, heart, and or soul?
Some friends are starting to ask me about VR and although I have upgraded from an OG Vive to a Valve Index, I recommend the OG Vive. It can be found used for real cheap and I can apply the fixes like for the trackpad. Then I usually figure out how to budget build/upgrade their PC from new or used parts. PCVR, even if tethered, is so much better. Also... Fuck Facebook. I hate that company. Friends don't let friends get zucked into Facebook.
about the OLED thing:
the old OLED VR headsets where just OLED, not micro OLED. The new microOLEDs manufacturing is very different from traditional OLED. It's made on silicon just like microchips, they are basically self emitting microchips. there were also some really good benefits that LCDs had at the time compared to the oleds that we had back then
is microoled much more clear?
@@crownless5130 The pixels are closer together which reduces screen door effect
I wonder if Valve's next headset will be microOLED, if it ever comes out at all
Yeah if SadlyItsBradly taught me anything, it's that OLED and Micro OLED are very different things lol
LCD also allows IPS, hence why it was a better move to switch to LCD.
As someone who still uses the OG HTC vive set and had to replace cabinet doors, monitor screens and even a whole foldable desk, I can confirm the old vive wand is a strong boi
I got one myself too, I've chucked them into walls accidentally and all it did was turn off. I just picked it back up, turned it back on, and it was like nothing happened.
upgraded from the og vive bundle to buying the og pro headset standalone to now i have the vive pro 2 bundle and i can say i dont mind that it doesnt have oleds on it and ive been running it atleast 8 hours every night no issues after a year or more
I found that if anything of the wands was to break, it's weirdly always the trackpad. Nothing else will surrender to fate.
same. still rocking my vive. i changed a lot tho. i got valve index controllers and tundra full body tracking
I've had the opposite experience. I've had to replace my controllers several times. Twice from losing tracking constantly and once from not having vibration working anymore.
Micro OLED is a significant step forward from earlier oled HMD's, there were reasons for the switch.
What switch? There's a grand total of 1 headset available that has Micro OLED and it's pretty costly. Even more costly if you don't already own base stations and controllers.
Well, there's a 2nd one but that other one is garbage. The Arpara 5K which at this point is essentially a scam product.
@@thenonexistinghero The switch to LCD's my guy. Pixel density.
@@adhdTrucker Ah, I thought you meant switch to Micro OLED. But yeah... I do think it's time for a switch again.
@@thenonexistinghero Yeah np, agreed.
About the Eye and Face Tracking: we have open source solutions now that have been getting so good :> Even the beyond has eye tracking through this stuff. It's nice.
I am aware of the open source hardware project for eye tracking but not for face tracking. Can you point me to it?
@@ky5666its called project babble. I will say it is early days for it, and not a lot of documentation has been made yet. I still need to build my rig but essentially you use the same hardware for eye tracking but pointed at your lips.
The vive wands were like nokia phones in regards to the outer shell but man that was a time when a lot of games were still teleport based and the trackpad was notorious for being able to get pressed-in permanently from just clicking it too much to teleport. There used to be guides online for opening up the controller to replace the piece of rubber that connected the pad to the button (because it wore out from over use) Of my original 2 I got with the vive, it happened to one, I fixed it, then it happened to the other, fixed that, then the first one eventually broke again so I bought a new single wand and then the 2nd one also broke again eventually. I swore those controllers off the moment valve announced the knuckles lol
Yea, the OG vive survives everything. Broke hand and shelf, but that dang wand still lives to see another VR session 😅
I stumbled on a guy on Reddit. Said his buddy who loaned his OG Vive, managed to break the OG vive wand by doing an uppercut. That guy must have been eating lots of spinach
Umm HP isn't just a printer company, they make computers. :) I think they made computers before they ever started making printers, but I might be wrong about that. Great video,,, lil sad, lil exciting
No you are right
They're a terrible company.
Ye but their laptops suck. Cmon HP, fix them screen hinges. And make it easier for customers to open and fix the damn things. I work as a PC technician on the free time and seeing the HP logo let's me know I am in for a ride.
@@boogie3718 the elitebook 840 g1 is pretty decent.
@@boogie3718I've had several cheap but powerful HP laptops, they always fail at the hinges. I managed to keep using one from 2018 up until last year when the harddrive finally failed because drivers. but it's always the hinges.
I kinda wish you talked about the whole array of WMR headsets. Cheap as hell PCVR inside-out tracking that worked well enough for most experiences. I was rocking a diy google cardboard+freepie+splashtop setup that I made for shits and giggles, and then I bought the lenovo explorer. My god I still miss that thing, flip up, comfy, small, light, good fov, good colors. Honestly they could have just had some self-tracking controllers like the the quest pro ones do today, I would still be using it.
Sadly the cable is propietary and broke off, and getting a replacement is a nightmare. Bought a dell visor to replace it, and then the year after sold it to buy myself a quest 2 which I still use.
The acer and the lenovo hmds were just what I envisioned vr to be, and the reason why I'm now saving up for either bigscreen beyond or the next light headset.
If only i could just slap a screen on my face for cheap without having to buy an entire standone android device to go along with it
FINALLY, High quality VR videos holy shit, thank you.
you can get the cv1 for like less than 100 usd nowadays. it's great for tinkering. cheap enough to not have a panic attack if you mess up; good enough to actually use as a headset.
Unfortunately, a replacement cable is it's Achilles heel. While you may get lucky and find a working used one for under $50USD, finding a brand new one will easily cost you nearly $100USD. My current cable no longer manages to connect as USB3.0, and I'm kinda afraid it'll fray enough to no longer connect.
I hope we get a new sturdy generation of headsets, I've gone through 5 index's already and several controllers. It's been a very expensive hobby.. I don't even know why my gear keeps fizzling out either when I watch people do flips and shit, throwing their headset across the room, or landing on their face and I've still had to replace mine more than them
still no cool box 😞
still no cool box😞
Just got my own OG Vive, intend to use it for years, hopefully
3:46 Vive keeps selling stuff until they run out of stock I think. For some time, the Vive Pro was discontinued in the US but still sold in Europe. Now it's discontinued everywhere except in UK.
HP never actually implemented the face tracking part and eventually quietly removed it from the marketing on its page.
i am also in VR since 2017 its crazy where we are Today.
OLED (not micro OLED) was neat for its time, but ultimately could not overcome the screen door effect. You could also say brightness was a concern, but you really could not overcome how far apart the pixels are on standard OLED displays. Just one of those oddities that is only an issue for VR displays, rather than TV screens or phones.
The PSVR 2 is only regular OLED and I cannot see the screen door effect on it. What we needed was higher resolution, not an inferior in every way except subpixel layout display technology.
Been using the Vive Pro. Thanks to it having 78% more pixels than on the OG Vive, I sometimes forget the SDE is even there. Except when I need to read super small text. Even then, I can manage.
Your mileage may vary.
3:11 I'll do this bit for you: I went from OG Vive to Vive Pro. Still own a Vive Pro up to now and I don't intend to upgrade anytime soon. I've spent some entire days using it for the virtual giant curved monitor.
It might not fit everyone, but when it does fit you, it feels amazing. I definitely prefer it to the Vive Pro 2.
VR feels like it is being frustratingly let down in many aspects. It doesn't need more leaps forward- it needs the tech that could be made available and paired together more neatly right now. All these separate addons that make for a clunky experience and a need for games to work without them, which ultimately means they are always afterthoughts.
When we get a popular enough base that has body, face, eye tracking in from the start and it isn't hot garbage, then we'll see some magic. Otherwise VR will keep struggling.
I got a Decamove, it took like a full second to update the direction, so you never knew which way you were going to go.
"Still no cool box...."
These parts just had me dying LMAO XD
big fan of what i see on this channel so far keep that shit up (and also is your avatar base publicly available on like booth or gumroad)
Don't forget that on the Omnicept, HP never delivered on their promises for face and eye tracking software for consumers since not enough enterprise customers bought it. I bought what was essentially a $1700 paperweight.
Compared to my working Valve Index.
The Hydra and the OSVR HDK were Razer's foray(s) into VR and VR-adjacent markets. The Razer Hydra is a Wiimote and Nunchuk-style input device that uses a short range magnetic field to detect six axis of freedom for each hand, launching in 2011 and purpose-built for desktop gameplay instead of VR. While capable for its time and even today, the biggest downside of the Razer Hydra is the fact the controllers are wired. Not to eachother like a Wii remote, but to their base station and your computer, significantly limiting freedom of motion. In spite of this, many early videos about VR - especially those prior to the first Vive - use the Razer Hydra as their input device of choice for its affordability and availability. There's also about 200 flatscreen games that support the Razer Hydra, including some Valve games like Half Life 2, Team Fortress 2, Left 4 Dead 2, and Portal 2.
OSVR on the other hand stands for Open-Source VR, and was spearheaded by Razer and Sensics with the goal of creating a standard for hardware manufacturers and software developers to follow to better guarantee cross-compatibility across the board. A mantle to be later taken by SteamVR. The HDK or Hacker Development Kit series of about 6 headsets (1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0) are all pretty similar to my understanding. The 1.4 has two 960 by 1080p OLED displays, a fixed IPD of 63.5mm, and released in August of 2015. The 1.3, 1.4, and 2.0 should still be supported by SteamVR, but I have not found conclusive results on the other headsets. The coolest thing about the OSVR series is it's an open standard, meaning you can - in theory - build and use your own headset today, and have it just work, provided you did everything right. The biggest downside of OSVR is it's not a consumer product, meaning you're expected to do a lot more tinkering and maintenance to get it working, and keep it working. Of course nowadays, OSVR is outdated and the concept has been done with much more modern specs by projects like Relativty.
Both products are discontinued in both hardware and software development.
Actually OG vive wands, if you drop them the battery connector on the inside will likely pop out and you have to take the thing apart to reconnect it. Haha
With recent launch of Apples Vision Pro, I hope Samsung, Sony, Meta, Pico and Valve, will back to VR big now. The main thing of Vision Pro, most incredible resolution and microled posssible, super powers eye tracking, hand gestures and capability of integration with windows desktop
Great vid as always! Those improvements on your avi are getting better and better mayne.
Can we all just stop for a sec, and appreciate that steam vr is accessible enough. that all these products can be used with it?
Must have some amazingly documented API for sure
Thanks so much, Boneless. Loved the video, but knew I would. Also makes me appreciate how crazy the trip has been with VR, from the primitive to the grotesque, with a weave of elegance in between. Hate to say, but I agree with @zkp , "no cool box". Sorry, but I think those will be out of the mix, but based on the history you gave, I think we are in for an awesomely exciting ride in the future. Thanks again!😁
even the pimax crystal doesnt have oled... but the qled does look amazing, i just wish they worked more on the local dimming since i feel like it can be more precise
Spedicey had googly eyes on his dk1 in his log cabin. Good times
God I remember when he did Slender The Arrival in VR. The fish eye lens was crazy 😭
OLED is not microOLED. They're almost a completely different technology and really shouldn't even be compared.
microOLED is manufactured on a tiny postage stamp sized piece of silicon in the same way a computer chip is made. Which means you can have a very small, incredibly high pixel density panel in a very small and lightweight headset.
Regular OLED panels simply can't do that. They're much larger, much lower pixel density, less bright and just not really suitable for VR. Which is why even regular LCD panels have surpassed them in newer headsets like the Quest 3. It's a relic of the VR past.
of course most of the stuff is discontinued, most are pcvr only wired fresnel lenses vr headsets that cost 2k+ dollars, so in comparison even if it's not oled, i would rather have 4 quest 3 than any of the vr headsets listed here, with better resolution, lenses and wireless pcvr, yeah, does not have face tracking but.. that's a VRC only mostly thing, there are more stuff in vr than only social apps i would rather buy a katwalk than a fbt for the price nowadays
"Still no cool box :(" now i want a vr headset that has a cool box. i was convinced.
Oh god the "Rift S" mic had me laugh so hard I woke my roommate up from the basement, I'm legit dying lol!
Hamburgers
great viceo as per usuall quality is getting better and better its lovely to watch
thanks for making me remember the good ol days
from the dk 1 to the quest 3 ... damn what a ride VR tech already had and hopefully will continue to have
The video title is kinda misleading. It makes think us 'oh VR is going downhill lately'. But it's just all old VR headsets stopped with production.
You should say more 'Goodbye old VR headsets' in video. That is what video talked about all older gen headsets.
Stop choose confusing title makes us think everything will go wrong.
The biggest problem I'm seeing with VR and why things are being discontinued is the early investor hype followed by quick dives (but most of the time gradual) in investor sentiment. Look at HTC stock price over the last 10 years or so. Most other big names (big names for your average VR consumer) in VR don't make their money solely and/or by no means a majority from VR with Valve and Meta coming to mind. So right now we are in a shrinking VR market because of that early investor hype. Eventually it will pick back up and I am excited to see how other big companies entering the market (like Apple) will compete with Meta, Valve, and HTC.
every >OLED got me creasing. loved the vid, subbed. VPE Gang
I had a DK1. Not much actually worked for it, but some bods existed to add VR to games like Borderlands 2. Didn't run well, but it was neat to be trying out VR long before most had.
The footage of me talking about the chinese market finally had a use.
10/10 would talk to a camera for an hour again.
In my experience, The Vive Cosmos isnt that bad. I haven't had many problems with it its been quite reliable. The software is pretty bad though, but the tracking is much better than it seems to have started out as. Sure there have been plenty of moments where the IO tracking freaks out or the headset just becomes completely disorientated but i do this in a room with an entire wall basically being one big mirror, and it still somehow works 90% of the time.
But it does have some flaws, the biggest being the software and the lenses but considering i live in a country where pretty all my options are on this list. Im quite happy with it.
Watched for the cute avatar, subbed for the insights into the VR industry
Your content is legitimate gold holy shit
Regular OLED has mura (per-pixel imperfections that mean each pixel looks slightly different and results in a static "pattern" over your vision) and relatively large gaps between pixels.
Additionally the phone screens early HMDs had to rely on had a pentile sub-pixel layout which is not well suited to being viewed close up.
People complained on mass about these aspects in particular of the Rift and Vive hence the switch.
Micro OLED mostly solves all these issues. They are designed specifically with XR applications in mind so have a superior sub-pixel layout.
I'd still like to see panels with the sub-pixel layout used in the Steam Deck OLED and Switch OLED built at higher pixel densities apropriate for HMD as they would be great as a more affordable option. You'd still have mura, but the SDE would be much improved.
DecaMove was in $60. It was basically $100 once you actually had it shipped to you.
Think I have a HTC somewhere under my bed base station still mounted. 😅
I can not agree on the Vive wands. The touchpads kept breaking for me. i had 3 pairs of vive controllers over the span of 1 year. My index controllers i have for 5 years now, still work perfectly.
well that's pretty sad. if only major games put a VR port.. ik it's not that easy, but when we have many billion $ companies it's still surprising they don't care about it.
I love that this video was recommended to me (I mean the title) literally 2 days after I got my VR and feeling physical pain when giving away all this money to make my dream come true
Even vive wands broke from my hands: first have broken motor now, second is broke in half 😭
Still using original Vive now and it still working fine without any problems.
>controllers can handle a little blood
It's true, never had any issues with them even when smacked to the wall.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the Mixed Reality headsets.
_still no cool box...._
I don't know if its just my Quest 2, but the display on that is absolute ass and I never realized till i recorded some Blade and Sorcery footage via Virtual Desktop. Like seriously, my computers' display will be super crisp and my actual vr display will be worse than my real life vision when i don't have glasses, and yet, it works, well enough that i dont really feel the need to upgrade.
i think ive actually tried the DK1 before at some tech convention. it was my first time hearing of a working real life VR headset. it was kind of cool but the demo they had on was just a static 2d 360 degree image so i was not super impressed. I think you couldn't really look up and down either, just left and right. it's been a long time though so i could be misremembering
dude its funny, i dont have a vr, i never play vrchat (my pc is trash and i really want to play vr chat), but i really enjoy your videos, keep with that man, they are wonderful
Deka Move did not work well. It took a full second to register the direction.
It's a tad ironic that these days one of HP's podium products in terms of overall quality is a VR headset that you can no longer buy new.
All aside, I think at this point the only headset I'm generally excited about is the Bigscreen Beyond, and even that has its hurdles-a lack of inside-out tracking, the limitations of the bespoke design, a lack of included speakers off the bat and the finicky nature of the optics hold it back and I think they'd do better with a more full-featured, bigger brother that takes up more face space to add back some of those little niceties. That and the state of headset-independent consumer face tracking leave a lot to be desired for someone who uses social VR a lot.
Also, I petition to just get rid of trident cable designs. I want a driver box, especially after I've fallen victim to the results of poorly cooled and cramped signal processing chips. I have a feeling that a dedicated device to redrive the signal and supply power would also help with awkward cable reaches and draping methods. Wireless is also an option but it puts a limiter on display stream quality and playtime that isn't particularly suited for a small room PCVR user like myself or people who get on VR as a multiple-hour outing.
You might be interested in the consumer Forte VFX1 and CyberPuck controller that was out in the late 90's for pc. I had the puck, which was a 2 button joystick and a gyro. It didn't need software or drivers due to the simple design and pc game standards of the time. I bought the puck at best buy and used it on an acer aspire pizza box style green pc. Dark Forces was fun to play, but the arm holding up the controller got tired fast. Don't even start on Descent. Oof! I think there were a couple other hmds you could buy at the time as well. Hope all this adds to your fun of VR.
Not going to lie, I was always under the impression that Yamaha did motorcycles first and then did instruments because precision machining, I didn't know they were a musical instrument company first.
My Beyond came in a neat box. Not a pelican case or anything. But it *is* neat. You only have to fight with steam vr itself software wise too. Well, at least until the ET VR kits become available.
damn you're funny! cute too!! great video, so sad that alot of projects with good potential got discontinued
the pimax crystal's visuals are pretty good too, also (supposedly) comes with full face tracking and eye tracking, but the software is bad, as always.
also, the software for the PCVR mode seems to cause a ton of problems with the visuals, depite it being the best headset for visuals that I have tried while not bugging out, as it might decide to bug at any time and give you a glitched out view, just like having a episode of Cyberphycosis or Relic Malfunction, in Cyberpunk 2077.
I replaced the Index with the crystal, and it's definately a good upgrade, but now I have to restart pimax services at least once a day, which really ruins immersion, unless you like the feeling of having a glitched view, which is cyberpunk asf
Love your videos. What is the best VR headset today with face tracking and compatible with vive trackers that's actually decent?
1. We need oled
2. We need them to be tanks
3. WE NEED COOL BOX
5:53 had me weak 11/10 would watch again
Still using the OG rift to this day. 😂
Products that did not sell well or got old get discontinued who woulda thought.
The mouth animations on that model is memorizing
Mesmerising?
Oculus got me into VR, not wearing the headset but what they did bringing it to a more consumer end POV. So when FB/Meta bought them out it crushed my soul. I had the GearVR with my Note4 though, and that would later lead me to the OG Vive and eventually the Index. I want to upgrade, but it feels like we're at the weird stage of VR Stuff dieing off, but new stuff being on the horizon.
Sounds like HTC Vive 1 is the only consistent long lived vr headset.
I moved to my Pimax Crystal headset awhile ago and can't go back now.
I still daily drive a Rift CV1 haha, its still a decent little headset for how cheap you can get them, I remember back in HS wanting one so bad when they came out too, the only bad thing about it is that the cable is a pain to get a hold of, you pretty much need to just buy an entire headset to get a new one at this point because the cable itself is as much as a headset
7:58 i dyed my hair purple, then bought a quest 2... oh lord the poor white headstrap
can I just say my autism is absolutely mesmerized by your face tracking. funny expressions.
I've been trying to get the Deca Move forever now.
Another amazing video, Boneless
I'd just wait for Valve's Deckard or whatever they're up to.
I was able to get my hands on a PiMax 8K+, and aside from it's aweful mic and tempermental setup, I love that thing. I didn't get the controllers with it, I just use my Index controllers with, so I don't have to rage about those monstrosities.
I'm rocking a Reverb G2V2, and my only complaint is WMR. This headset is great.
Thinking about the Quest 3, mostly just for a bump in visual quality and better passthrough, but if you want a cheap PCVR headset that's built like a brick, than just get a G2. Upgrade the controllers as fast as you can though, the Reverb's tracking isn't quite as bad as reviews lead you to believe, but if you're coming from a Quest 2 you will be dissapointed in the controllers. Visual quality tho, mwah. Perfection. Except for godrays. And the tiny sweet spot. Okay it isn't perfect but for $250 secondhand, ESPECIALLY if you mostly do flight or driving sims, absolutely reccomend.
Hi I still own a Rift S, the only drawbacks I have with it is well the mic, the controllers (stick drift/ spazm??) and the software ipd
I found a brand new htc face tracking unit and bought it. I wanted to get it for when I get the Bigscreen Beyond. I might actually have full face tracking Bigscreen Beyond if they decide to bring out the eye tracking kit.
Well, there's open source eye tracking available for the Bigscreen Beyond apparently
My Oculus Rift is not OLED, I don't understand why people say it's OLED... it's just a weird pentile matrix display that has none of the benefits of OLED... no true black... heck even my old camera from 2013 which does have OLED looks soo much better since there's no competition as it does have true black.
Took my Rift apart because it stopped working correctly and yeah, just look like a special LCD display, not OLED.
Heck, the Quest 2 has deeper black than the Rift, though still no true black since yeah, LCD but more refined.
After 7 years and thousands of VR Hours, my vive wands finally gave out on me from a shorting ribbon cable 🫡
I bought another pair. Fuck the index knuckles
Love your videos bro ❤
Man, i went from an index to a vive pro eye and i havent looked back. ive tried everything from a quest pro, varjo aero, and here i am, still stuck on my vive pro eye. Best eye tracking, best face tracking with the vive tracker, and oled really is pretty sexy. sranipal isnt perfect, but its really not that tricky lol. Frankly the only reason im considering getting an Aero again is just for the sheer ppd, i miss it for that :c but it still is a compromise for me.
also the omnicept is so sick, but also so sad :c face tracking is awful outta the box, and a lot of that is because hp axed the project. in addition to the HR sensor, there were gonna be EMG sensors in the facial interface that MEASURED YOUR FREAKING CHEEK MUSCLE PULSES. but hp decided that wasnt cool enough, they didnt even give you any kinda sdk for the face tracking either. only eye/HR.
As a person who still uses the original Oculus Rift Cv1, I prefer it waayyyy better than my Oculus Quest 1. Both really nice headsets, but the Quest is a little heavy for my liking, unlike the Cv1. Love the OLED's in them too 😎
Yaaay! I love new Boneless content
My frist HMD, Occulus Rift S. Then, Quest 2, now Quest 3. Waiting for, Valve Deckard.
Humm. Just curious: Why does your YT channel icon have an OP-1 in it? :3
Pimax sword controllers. Hear me out. Removable hot swappable battery’s.
No
I'll stick with my index controllers.
The satisfaction I got when he said Oled
No love for Samsung Odyssey+? Inside-out tracking + OLED...it's my baby. The Lenovo Explorer was really what got me into VR because it was so cheap after it got discontinued. Ah, Windows Mixed Reality's failure was its success... And now, everyone and their mom is trying to release mixed reality headsets. Dangit, Microsoft, how did you fail so badly when you were ahead of the curve? Should have either made ACTUAL MIXED REALITY or not used false advertising.
The DK1 is something I’m trying to find.
Your videos make me want to get into face tracking. Is there a good way to do it on Index? xD
There is a big difference between new micro old and old pentile oleds
I've owned an oculus rift for a few years now and I'm thinking of upgrading, does anyone know the next step up I should take without selling my arms, legs, heart, and or soul?
Some friends are starting to ask me about VR and although I have upgraded from an OG Vive to a Valve Index, I recommend the OG Vive. It can be found used for real cheap and I can apply the fixes like for the trackpad. Then I usually figure out how to budget build/upgrade their PC from new or used parts. PCVR, even if tethered, is so much better. Also...
Fuck Facebook. I hate that company. Friends don't let friends get zucked into Facebook.