Spitfire: The Semiauto That Became a Machine Gun
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The Spitfire is a firearm with an interesting importance in legal history. Originally designed and marketed as an open-bolt semiautomatic-only carbine, it was determined to be a machine gun under the law in 1968, and all examples were required to be registered or destroyed. The reason was not its open bolt design, but rather because the safety lever could be used to hold the sear down and allow fully automatic fire without any alteration to the gun. This example was duly registered, and it now a transferrable machine gun.
Aside from this brouhaha, the Spitfire was simple a very poor man's Thompson lookalike - although functionally it is much more like the M3 Grease Gun than the Thompson. It uses M3 magazines, and is cocked by simply pulling the bolt back with a finger, like the M3A1. The construction is extremely crude. Following its machine gun ruling, a series of very similar guns were produced by the same designer which used a closed bolt operating system to avoid the legal issues - the Volunteer carbine in particular.
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"What's the safety for?"
"To shoot in full auto!"
"What?"
"What?"
It's a great, economical idea. Safety and rock and roll switch not only in the same switch but the same setting!
@@awmperry what could possibly go wrong!
Sounded good when trying to trick atf
You will be very safe once that enemy infront of you eat some of that auto-lead
It's safest if you don't touch it.
That's a gun straight out the fallout universe. It's a crude, simplistic thing... and it's beautiful.
It does have that feeling and look
Agree 100%
Still looks better than fallout 4's thompson
@@mfspectacular I can agree with that. Never liked the thing because it looked like a toy and burned through so much ammo that the damage output wasn’t worth it. Plus it just felt out of place for the game. If it was Chicago I’d get it, but Boston I don’t see a reason for it to be there.
@@sanddoom2089 i could say similar sht for the entire weapon pool, like everything around boston being left handed lol. I'll never understand why they didnt adopt the laser rcw from fnv tho. A modified thompson that shoots lasers? Perfect for the series
Turn your semi-auto carbine into a SECRET MACHINE GUN with this ONE WEIRD TRICK! Attorneys General hate them!
Real clickbait ads don't pluralize "Attorney General" correctly. 😜
The best TH-cam comment I've actually seen in years
That full-auto safety is my new favorite example of "it's not a bug, it's a feature."
First thing that crossed my mind too.
The Spitfire: a cool plane, a cool car, and this. Judgement pending.
And an LMG in Apex Legends and Titanfall series
There's also a wonderful British motorcycle called the BSA A10 Spitfire!
Oh it's still really cool the caliber and the function plus what this gun was designed for .... It's beautiful tbh it's illegal to mod it but the function is awesome
And a cool pistol
also a clone of CZ 75
A coming of age story that will move you to tears... The gun that wanted to be more than just a semi.
Watch "Spitfire" this holiday season.
I'd watch that
"You'll never be more than a semi auto carbine, son. It's the way it has been, it's the way it always will be."
I can hear the low deep voice advertising this as I read it!🤙🏻😅
Staring Rob Schneider as Spitfire
And in the end it finds an owner who falls in love and makes its dreams come true by getting its fire control group changed.
Thompson: who are you?
Spitfire: im you, but poorly made
Yeah kinda looks like somebody saw a Thompson and a grease gun and just welded them together
Kinda like Superman and Bizarro.
@@bleachedtiedye it's a grease gun that wanted to be a thompson for halloween
@@heliveruscalion9124 Which is funny, because the M3 grease gun performed much better than the Thompson.
Spitfire: I'm the Thompson mum said we had at home
I have one of these. A grease gun bolt drops right in. As ugly as this thing is, mine is 100% reliable.
If it's 100% reliable then it's beautiful just on principle.
We had one at the PD I worked at, shot a lot of rounds thru it lots of fun.
Oooo you gotta let Ian do a shoot with it!
Tbh, it looks reliable in that solid, heavy, retro way.
Curious, what did they run you for that?
'Normally looks like a gun with a malfunction'
Yeah it sort of sums it up in a way but I'm sure the beholder loves it none the less
Man I think she goods beautiful...... what the bid up too.
@@swizzlestick746 they go for 6k ish
Khyber Pass: "You won't believe how shoddy our products are."
Spitfire: "Hold my beer..."
Getting the same results out of a factory as a team working in a cave with a box of scraps.
I was thinking this gun makes the old pot metal paper cap pistols of my childhood look like Holland and Holland's 😆
@@FBH991
Not much difference in terrain between the two 🤗😁
Not to far from same politics squabble???
A little humor and
Helping the ratings.
Therapist: The Intratec Thompson is not real, it can't hurt you.
*Intratec Thompson:*
I was gonna say, it kinda looks like a TEC-9 Thompson mashup
@@Didymus-vz6uy same
@@Didymus-vz6uy BRO SAME I WAS GONNA SAY THAT! Glad to see other like minded people in the comment section haha!
This is what is left in dumpsters behind a gun brothel full of Thompsons after Grease Guns and Tec9s visit
“That child is ugly.’
Honestly I would have more faith in a Tec9 than this thing.
"Bastard" is unironically a fitting nickname for it.
Firearms like this are EXACTLY why I subscribed to your channel 10 years ago.. You rock! Thanks for the history lesson!
damnn u been here for a while, i been half of that i think
With a name like "Spitfire", it does exactly what it sounds like
Nice pfp
A safety-catch that makes a gun a machine gun.
Gives a whole new meaning to "giggle switch".
Oh boy that grip is just amazing, 100% do recommend if you hate yourself
Thats what she said...
(For some thats what he said)
I don’t get it.
@@Viessaisluv means that it is so terrible that only people who hate themselves will use it to cause suffer
@@Viessaisluv
The ergonomics on the rear grip are fucking AWFUL.
I heard Magpul is coming out with a replacement.....
Ian is a true academic; willing to admit when he's wrong and able to continue to learn. Love you Ian! Thank you for all your hard work :)
I can't get over how the SAFETY is also the full auto setting. Genius
Rather egregious design flaw!
@@RonJohn63 when it costs the company money and more or less stops them selling these?
Yes. I do expect better.
@@ScottKenny1978 Technically they're prefectly legal for sale...to a very small customer base admittedly but still legal nonetheless.
@@clothar23 but not legal to manufacture if the maker isn't an SOT!
The factory where these were produced was only open on opposite day, apparently.
5:35 the manufacturing quality of that lower casting, the spring, and all its parts would look awful for a toy gun, let alone a registered machine gun
That cheap looking Thompson gun still looks beautiful, and she’s basically what if we combine the cheap nature of the M3 Grease gun but still make it beautiful looking like an original Thompson gun, and here she is.
Right in the middle
Iunno, you do you but I'm still swiping left on it. Mostly because of that grip, holy crap my fingers are getting cramps just from looking at that thing.
Please stop calling it 'she'
Nothing about this is beautiful. Interesting? Absolutely! Beautiful? Nahhhhh...
Even back in the early 1980s when I first got into NFA guns, this was one that everybody seemed to have heard about but few actually saw. The story that was going around at the time was that they became full-auto due to premature parts wear from poor materials and no heat treating. Legendary crappiness
Engineer: do you want a Thompson or a Grease Gun?
Boss: yes
I am pretty sure this was originally made by somebody trying to convert an M3 into Thomson.
Back when these were a $1K transferable MG I considered buying one thinking that I could completely redesign the lower. I at the time was assuming the tube was the registered component. When I found out it was serial numbered on the lower i passed it by because I couldn't stand to have anything that ugly in my safe.
My Phone show this comment was made 3 weeks ago 🤣 but that is horrible why the fuck would they do that 😳
First off how was this commented three weeks ago, second off yeah, it's very unfortunate that the lower is that ugly and unchangeable
@@Ellwe2000 Because he's a Patreon and gets to see the videos before you do.
Got damn time travelers
@@ripturha3867
Because this isfrom3 weeks ago. Patreon members get early views on Ian's content.
If you don't want to go to Fuddbusters the short version is that if a semi-auto only gun is "readily convertable" to full auto then it shall be treated like it already has been converted. This is a pretty extreme example (hold the safety down while firing) but apparently there were several open bolt semi auto designs that the government ruled were "readily convertable" so naturally people jumped to the conclusion that being open bolt was the reason.
The reason you see virtually no open bolt semi autos in production today is that the primary advantages of an open bolt design (better cooling after rapid fire and low complexity) are negated or of far less importance in semi-auto. Might as well get the accuracy and safety benefits of a closed bolt design.
"Uncle Sam, I want a Thompson Submachinegun"
"We have a Thompson in the garage at home"
Hmmmm it looks more like "We made a Thompson in the garage back home."
In build quality,that thing makes a Hi Point look like a Wilson combat.
😂😂😂
I've seen better finishes applied with putty knives on a rusted 1977 Pinto.
"Can we get a Thompson?"
"We have Thompson at home"
Thompson at home:
I came here to say this but knew in my heart it has already been said
It does look somewhat cool to be honest
come up with a new joke
@@SanAntonioJoker Sometimes, unoriginality is the key here.
@@Scav8835 no, hasn't been funny for years now
I wonder how many fingertips burn you will get while cocking this weapon without wearing gloves.
Your point is well taken if you mean in the heat of battle. It would take great presence of mind to keep track of the number of rounds fired while being shot at. A bolt handle would be a nice addition.
Because it's open bolt it doesn't get as hot as you'd think, fairly warm but not close to burning in my experience. The barrel of course gets hot but since the bolt doesn't stay in contact with it continuously along with the huge amount of mass keeps it from getting too hot, only had three mags with the one I played with thou.
This looks like something that you find in a tabletop rpg corebook inside the firearms chapter.
The Spitfire. A semi-automatic* grease-gun in a cheap Halloween costume dressed to look like a Thompson.
*FULLY, semi-automatic
Oh so _that's_ what "fully semi automatic" means...
The one time that phrase is actually appropriate
Looking at the thumbnail, almost thought that the Stemple strikes again on first glance
The Stemple seems much better made.
This looks like something thrown together by a props department in 1972 for a one off episode of a scifi show that goes back in time to the 20's but the show can't afford to rent real tommy guns. I love it.
Just pull the safety down while firing for full auto then you'll really feel safe. Aside from just being able to switch to full auto that feature is the coolest feature I've seen on an gun.
So it’s a poorly made Grease Gun in a Thompson costume?
*I want one!*
Is this the legendary "Spitfire" that flew up and shot down many planes in the war?
Asking for a friend.
Yes
A friend called Messerschmitt?
@@HeartPumper I thought it might be a Focke-Wulf 190 but then PETA got mad at me. I asked, "what, you have a problem with the Focke-Wulf" and they said something about them being an endangered species and I said I know, they are all over 70 years old and then they said I didn't know anything about the Focke-Wulf so maybe that explains why I abuse animals. I say hey, what the Focke are you talking about I would never abuse an animal!
**Hmmmm given some of their history this may be entirely too close to potentially believed...
I have one of those "Commando" Thompson style carbines that look like that but have been reengineered to be direct blowback closed bolt instead of open bolt. Kind of fun to take to the range and play with but definitely cludgey.
A colleague took his personally owned Auto Ordnance semi-auto "Thompson" to the range on qual day some time ago. The open-to-closed-bolt conversion is indeed clunky as hell. With the required 16-inch barrel the thing has all the ergonomics of a length of angle iron that's been run over by a tank. This particular example also failed to fire one out of four(ish) cartridges...the primer strikes looked to be off center. I know where the owner bought it, and the vendor is considered reputable. I can only assume this particular gem had been on his wall so long that when someone actually got interested he gritted his teeth and sold it fast before the buyer could change his mind.
My usual yardstick for weight and bulk in a rifle is the HK/PTR-91. They're long, heavy (9 1/2 lbs empty) and have weird handling requirements. But...they're chambered for a rifle round and work every time. That particular "Thompson" had all the downsides of the '91 with none of the pros.
It would be a real treat if you ever got to go to whatever Thompson museum is in existence and show us earlier examples of his works. The long barreled, .445 caliber, belt fed, attached bipod, LMG is one in particular that I would hope to see. Most people know little beyond the military models.
At one time those were made in Knoxville, TN, and then in Anderson County, TN. I bought some Thompson Buttstocks from the widow back in the 80's. She had a barn full of brand new walnut stocks. She was selling them for 5 bucks a piece. She later starting burning them in her wood stove. As you stated, they started making the Volunteer carbine at the Bull Run Machine shop if I remember correctly. Named after the Volunteer state.
Me at 0:00 - "Ok, what idiotic excuse did they find to classify this thing as a machine gun?"
Me at 5:12 - "Oh. Well. Yeah."
yeah it's pretty hard to argue with them in this case.
@@Exarian Yeah, when they hit you with "But it shoots full auto you nimrod!" you have to be some seriously wicket word contortionist to be able to slither out of that one...
@@Exarian Which just makes it even funnier.
@@andersjjensen yep you don't even have to modify the trigger group you just need to handle the safety incorrectly.
@@IceWolfLoki "Incorrectly". Yeah. Totally! :P
Now why hasn’t this been put in games? This looks like the perfect weapon to put in the Fallout series. It looks like the Thompson sub machine gun for that Americana look but also a bit of a mix look of modern weapons that would fit perfectly with Fallout. Crude looking but such a beautiful weapon for the simplicity of it.
I know it's a rhetorical question, but I'll bite as I got boat loads of freetime. The answer is because:
1. It's a classic Forgotten Weapon. The video and the description puts it well as to why this specific gun and configuration survived up to now.. You can't make something into a mod for a game if you don't know what it is in the first place.
2. Because it's referred to as "Poor Man's Thompson", a bootleg, "just imitation of the real thing".
3. Because you haven't done it. Now since you've seen it, you've wanted it, no one has done it, you can now and go mod it if you've got the stones for it.
@@WingMaster562 I wish I could mod but I don’t even know where to begin on how to create a mod.
@@sanddoom2089 Replace the _ with dot. It just contains links to useful tutorials. No, I'm not a stupid bot, it's just a pastebin link
0bin_net/paste/TZ9+0pYu#KiHBhAqzFc0VvoYOb2SUVJAPndZcRo9datsBB4MjqGK
That should do. a
@@WingMaster562 thanks
This weapon is strange, but at the same time cute, I don't know how to describe it....
"A contraption that against all odds turned out fine"?
"The feral cat that lives in the bushes just had kittens" kind of cute
Captain America: "So you accidentally built a selector switch into your semi-auto carbine..."
Look great to me, in a funky way; reminds me of an SMG straight out from the original Jonny Quest cartoons.
Wielded by the one man wrecking crew, Race Bannon.
This is a good example of "what if a beretta M12 wanted to become a thompson".
Wow, you just reminded me. A good friend, who is no longer with us, had one of the Volunteer carbines. This was about 10-12 years ago & he brought it over to my house so we could use my computer to look it up. Paul was a real Luddite, thought computers were just a fad.
It was either missing a part or a had a broken part, I don't remember. I couldn't find much on it back then, so it went back into his closet.
I'm sure his son has it now.
One could almost call this a "franken-gun" with Grease gun mags and the bolt which is a cross between a Thompson and a Grease gun, and a stock which is clearly derived from a Thompson, this gun nevertheless holds up well when aiming from the shoulder...
That's an actual Thompson stock, Ian mentioned it in the video.
Your one of the few to do tomopson, love the manufacturer!!! Had to be the baseplate for so many platforms!!!
The Spitfire looks like if someone tried drawing the M1928 Thompson from memory
Well I'll be damned. The term "fully simi automatic" just gained legitimacy.
Love your Channel
'oh that gun has a safety-lever. well designed. '
'yeah...safety..'
:D love it
I'm glad you mentioned the Volunteer Arms version in this video. I have one of those myself, and my Dad worked in Oak Ridge TN with the guys that made the Volunteer tommy gun clones. They worked out of a garage, basically. When I was a kid, Dad took me over there to visit once. The guys had a stockpile of parts waiting to be assembled, so I could see what they were as parts, as well as what they would become when assembled. I was probably 8 or 9 years old at the time. I recognized the Tommy-gun shape from TV. Happy to report that the VA clones are strictly semi-auto. And thanks for the info that they most likely use "grease gun" magazines. I didn't know that, but I found out the hard way that Thompson magazines were incompatible with the VA clones. The magazine you pulled out of the Spitfire look just like the one magazine that came with my VA clone. I'll look at the army surplus sites and see if I can order one to test fit in mine. Never hurts to have an extra magazine when out at a range target shooting.
You have got to love your job!
Reminds me of the Thompson looking BB machine guns you would find at carnival shooting booths.
If I had run across one of these before seeing this video, my only question would have been "whose garage was this made in?".
I can hear Brandon Herrera saying "just as good" when seeing this
Great video
Am I the only one who suspects that some of the springs in that trigger assembly looked like they came out of a mousetrap?
A big thumbs up for this great full- semi-automatic version.👍
This thing LOOKS cool as hell
Minor detail, but that 1928 detachable stock mount is all an aftermarket modification. They originally accepted only an M1 style fixed stock, secured with two bolts.
It used the roughness of the bad sand casting for grip texture instead of any kind of machining or attached grip parts.
A perfect forgotten weapon where mechanics and historical context and legality come together kudos
This looks like something I would have made in shop class, which may be why they stopped having shop class in my high school. It also might be because I wanted to see what the spot welder would do if I didn't actually place two pieces of metal in before throwing the switch. The spot welder incident didn't go over well with the shop class instructor.
I had one in the early '70's . It was different . The stock was held in place with 2 allen bolts where the Thompson stock slide bracket screws are . Also the sights were different . It was fun to shoot . Sold it after a few years .
That makes a Sten look sophisticated.
Thinking about it, a lot of thought and clever engineering went in to the Sten to reduce the engineering and materials needed to make one.
Спасибо за вашу работу, делайте подобные ролики ещё!
This had so much potential
I bought a Thompson 45ACP with 30 round stick magazine. I bought it in 1980. Nice gun. It fired from a closed bolt.
The obvious question is how the full auto ability was discovered - by accident? By analysing the mechanics of the trigger functionality?
‘Discovered’ 😊
Kid: can we have Thompson.
No we Thompson at home.
Thompson at home:
The Bootleg Tommy Gun, essentially.
Dude a bot stole your comment
Also known as the Detroit Typewriter...
When I was 9 years old I had a cast zinc cap gun revolver that looked very much like this thing internally.
Makes the PPS-43 look like a Rube Goldberg masterpiece.
It looks more like a movie prop than a real firearm
man...what a piece
Given how expensive Thompson guns are, it doesn't have to be a poor man's Thompson gun, just a _less rich_ man's Thompson gun. :)
It be nice to see this in action, especially the safety full auto on it.
The sheet metal trigger was the first thing that caught my eye.
I fired a Volunteer version of this. it's upper receiver was rectangular in shape but lower looked identical,
looks like one of those guns they have at carnivals where you can try to shoot out a paper star
Ive got a Commando Mk III by Volunteer Enterprises
M1A1 look alike that runs on grease gun mags, crude lower too.
Ive done several videos on it, really fun little piece.
Looks like something drawn out of a '40s war comic.
I want one.
I hope to see this beauty in action!!
anybody else think the 'sear spring' looks like the mechanism of a mousetrap?
Who would have guessed that a safety feature would also double as a makeshift fire selection feature?
Not too sure why, but this is one I would absolutely love to see at the range!!
might be found unassuming at a gunshow.... good to know
Ooooh, that's going to enjoy a mud test.
I was lucky enough to nab one of these unconverted. ( but registered) Rare chance to convert something to full auto without an sot. Cool seeing it here!
Looks like a Tec-9, M3 Grease Gun, and M1928 Thompson had a baby.
My first thought was it looks like an M12 with wooden furniture, this thing is kinda beautiful
relying on a clocked screw as a design feature is a bold move :D
I cannot wait for the day when these things are looked upon the same way as those weird AWB era semis
It looks to me like if they just manufactured it without a right angle on the sear where the safety hits it, it wouldn't be able to hold the sear down and it would be fine
Yup. A cheap manufacturing decision cost them a lot of money.
I think the barrell shroud makes this one look much more cooler and machine-gun like than the thompson :P
I saw this before when it was unlisted, because of Morphy. Neat gun!
I was a teenager in 1967/68 and I bought a brand new Spitfire from a garden supply store in Stuart Florida. Within two weeks I discovered it’s ability to fire full auto. If my memory is correct the buttstock was not removable but used the large bolts to attach. I may be wrong or the old owners of that one may have altered the stock the same as they did the barrel. The screw with a notch is not indicative of a factory installed piece. As a side story, I panicked a bit and traded it back to the store for a new 22 rifle. A year later ATF contacted me to confiscate the gun. I had not registered it under the 68 amnesty (I did others) since I no longer had it. The store had lied to ATF because they resold it to a local Klan member and threw me under the bus. Fortunately I had my trade receipt to prove it. A bit later they raided the store, arrested the owner and contacted me to testify. I never had to as the store owner confessed to everything and made a deal to testify against his “friends” to avoid jail time. A few years later (1971) I bought my first real 1928 Thompson from a class 3 dealer with a 50 rd drum for the princely sum of $250.00 including the drum. I still have it and I never regretted buying it.
Interesting... crude and simple yet effective...