Hi Del, I've read most of the posts below and having been a scientist in the metal finishing industry for over 35 years I note an awful lot of misguided advice about how to clean the materials used in modern chain manufacture. I'd like to offer my advice, as someone highly experienced in metal cleaning and metal finishing. Firstly, "know your base materials"... In modern chains you have 3 base materials (hardened steel links & rivets, sintered steel rollers and elastomer x or o seals). Second, "know what you are trying to remove"... Motorcycle chains typically have a mixture of grease, metal particles, road dirt and iron oxide (rust) on the surface. You need to take into account all of the substrates when trying to clean them. Rust for example, was once part of the base material so any significant amount that has developed can result in a much weaker base material and thus premature chain failure. My advice for cleaning a motorcycle chain would be a two step process. First remove the grease & oils. These also carry most of the fine metal particles and road dirt that wear the chain rollers and drive sprockets. Use a mild detergent (none solvent type) for example clothes washing liquid, in hot water. Proprietary cleaners are also effective and have usually been tested for compatibility with most elastomer seal materials. Petrol, Paraffin, White Spirits and other household solvents should be avoided unless you know the exact type of elastomer used in the seal for your specific chain and have checked it is not degraded by the solvent being used. Don't soak the chain overnight in any cleaning fluids as it is likely to migrate into the sintered roller materials and cause problems later. Use a nylon brush to remove the heavy soils and grease. Do this as quickly and effectively as possible. After cleaning, thoroughly dry the chain and let is stand overnight somewhere warm and dry. You don't want to lock in any moisture to the sintered rollers or behind the seals before you apply chain lubricant later. Some light surface rust may reappear overnight, which can easily be brushed off. Secondly, cleaning the sintered steel roller, hardened steel side plates and rivets should be done only after removing the grease and oils. Remember the sintered steel roller are sensitive to prolonged exposure to acids, surfactants and alkaline cleaners, so exposure time should be kept to a minimum. DO NOT use strong acids of any kind. If the rust is light, simply use a fine steel wire brush (not brass!). Brass is an alloy of coper and zinc, particles of this alloy can accelerate corrosion on the steel if left in contact with it. Use only a steel wire brush. If the corrosion or rust is excessive, I would not recommend cleaning it but replacing the chain. Heavy rust is a clear indication that chain has suffered poor maintenance and will most likely be weaker than the designers originally intended. Once the light rust is removed, inspect the rollers for pitting and wear. If there is a significant amount of either, again I would replace the chain. Once cleaned, make sure you lubricate the chain thoroughly with a recommended chain lubricant. The detergent used for cleaning may have penetrated the sintered rollers or behind the seals and have removed some of the original lubricant applied at manufacture. A good coating of chain lubricant should supplement this once the chain is running at normal operating temperature. Hope this helps...
** Rust for example, was once part of the base material so any significant amount that has developed can result in a much weaker base material and thus premature chain failure** I mentioned this in the video, so good to know i got that part of it right..! Thank you for your lengthy and detailed input Tex.. much appreciated mate. .
Vinegar is an acid, typically between 2.4 and 2.6 pH. I use vinegar to remove rust semi-frequently. It shouldn't take more than 48 hours to remove even the heaviest surface rust if you turn the rusted object over and agitate the vinegar every now and then. There may be some light toothbrush/wire brush scrubbing needed for any deeper pits, but nothing more. 8 weeks is SUPER overkill and is almost certainly the reason the metal was partially dissolved on the rollers. You may even want to raise the pH some if working with more delicate items. Just figured I'd share since I haven't seen a comment like this yet.
Hi mate, you're dead right, and I agree with everything you say... I've used this vinegar simply on a rag as a light wash to wipe over a panel that's been in a damp garage for a few days without paint, it's great for that purpose, and indeed, it doesn't take time... the reason I took 2 months at it was as an experiment ... did you see that yellowy brown scum it was sitting in and I wanted to see, as so many people had asked, whether it would, indeed, dissolve the rubbers, because I'd never seen anybody answer that, so needed to find out for myself.... and now we all know that vinegar doesn't touch that rubbers, even after two months........ What was interesting though, was that after 2 weeks in the vinegar, the chain was un-touched practically, but after two months it had taken the andosing off... that was a gold chain remember... and look at it afterwards, shiney grey steel !
This is my favorite method for removing rust. It will destroy finishes it left in too long. 24 hours in the vinegar will loosen the rust up enough to scrub off in most cases. Great info thanks for posting!
Very thorough Del! Love the outside the box. Wondering how the test would have resulted with a piece of new, unrusted chain. That'd give you an idea of it was the vinegar that roughed the chain up or if it was the rust. Thanks!
Great for eating rust, old school restoration trick. My son has 5 gallon bucket full for his old truck parts. It’s corrosive though, so I would have been skeptical as to the integrity of the grease inside the o-rings after. Even if it had not left a rough finish. Another good video!
I used viniger for my bicycle chain. Left overnight. Came clean, but it rerusted within a half hour. Put oil over it. I put it back on the bike. Rode 2 blocks and it snapped. I guess rust weakened the chain. Maybe viniger maybe be useful on other things but not important things as drivetrain. Lesson learned. Got a new chain now.
Thanks for doing this. I will probably never have to do this but I can tell my mates about it so you have helped about a dozen bikers just through me. Best Wishes, Brendan.
Hi Delboy. Interesting re the vinegar clean. I've been using vinegar for years as a cleaning agent without any probs. trick is not to leave it in too long. Another thing i've been using is swarfega. Apply with a soft detail brush and work it in then rinse off with water then wash with soapy water then rinse again. Brilliant for removing tar/dirt from body panels too. Keep up the good work.
Hello Pedro, thank you so much for that amazing tip on tar from body panels, ain't that the bane of our lives! I would imagine it would work on exhausts as well, as it burns on?? With the vinegar we had multiple people ask us 'will it perish the rubbers on the chain?', I knew that 2months would etch the metal as some point, and it took the anodizing off the gold plates too, but I left it that long specifically to see what it did tot he rubbers, and as you saw, it did nothing at all, they were unaffected, which was a very surprising result !
That is interesting that the acid in the vinegar didn’t hurt the o-rings. I have used vinegar on various things to remove rust. Vinegar will remove rust in a day sometimes it takes two days. I think if you would’ve soaked it for two days I think you would have got the rust off without giving the acid time to etch the rollers. Keep up the great work on the videos.
Cheers buddy, it was an experiment, I noticed that the majority of the cack indeed floated up to the surface in a few days, but with everyone suggesting how it damages metal, I wanted to see how much damage it would do over a lot longer, and as it was a scrap chain, it was a great chance to test it out!
Argh! The bane of the chain! Cheers for this little experiment of yours. I live in a village surrounded by 5 working quarries, argh!, ( bikers nightmare,lol) and I'm doing my best to keep the greasy fine sand,dirt,diesel oils off my chain AND bike....hopeless endeavour,really...so I've gone through many products to keep the chain protected. Well, you've scratched vinegar off my list, thanks Del! Informative as ever!! Safe riding! :-)
Vinegar with separate/loosen the rust off the bare metal within 1-2 hours. After that, it will start corroding the bare metal itself. The blue rust free coating on a chain is the same thing you find on a rifle barrel. Vinegar will strip it right off and then it'll be even more susceptible for corrosion.
It is just acetic acid. Stainless is generally safe. You use strong acids (nitric) to clean iron oxides out of the surfaces of stainless, but any organic acid will damage yellow metals (brass & copper) and platings will often be degraded or completely removed. On galvanized or bolts that are zinc coated, it will remove those protective coatings so depending on the chain, and the coatings used on those plates and rollers, I'd expect any acid with long-time exposure to damage them. We use phosphonate and a blend of polymers that are pH neutral in industrial systems to safely clean them. Generally, contact time and concentration are parameters to control how aggressive the cleaning. Adding heat and mechanical action (brushing) helps the cleaning process. But I would never soak a chain in any cleaner for extended periods of time. You have too many materials that have different properties, including lubricants sealed behind the o-rings. You shouldn't let your chain get excessively rusty to begin with but generally, you need to clean off oils/dirt and some iron oxide and then quickly reapply a protective lubricant. It isn't rocket science.... just clean it and lube it and put it back in action but don't use wire brushes on o-ring chains.
Vinegar is perfectly ok for a chain, if you don't soak the chain in vinegar for two months. 24 hours is long enough to remove any rust your chain is now rough prolly because the vinegar, which is a mild acid, was starting to eat the steel were is was weakened (under the rust) as well. You can brush your teeth using lemon juice once a week maximum and it'll do no damage and have a very positive effect on them, bu if you do it everytime you brush your teeth it will eat your enamel and let you toothless. Drinking two liters of water a day is optimal, drinking 10 liter is lethal. Moderation is key in everything.
Can’t believe it , after commenting yesterday on the “floating “ vice that was the itch I couldn’t scratch you’d already drilled the bench and got it sorted ! Nice one ... good luck with the sculpture. C
Thanks Dell a good experiment to see how robust the chain "o" rings, are and found other issues, days gone bye colleagues have used white diesel to free up rusted and seized parts which probably isn't so corrosive........now back to tea and biscuits to celebrate my birthday....
Ever try cleaning metal with molasses? I threw some XS650 parts in water and molasses and thinking it was mind, forgot about it for a few months. Molasses dissolves metal, don't let anybody fool you. Wrecked a lot of good parts.
What ever methods you use to remove rust from metal surface leaves the metal surface rough. When metal is rusted, it is rusted. Rust don't come from outer space, it comes from metal. Removing rust don't meen that the rust is turning back to metal. It's gone. Forever.
Didn't know the vinegar trick so good to know. I have always used petrol but you can still hear bits of grit in the rollers occasionally. But hey thanks for the tip.
A lot of folk seem to have missed the point here. It was an experiment to see what it would do and how the o-rings would stand up to the vinegar. It would obviously have to be done over a good length of time, to exaggerate any effect, otherwise you might not see any effect and hence not be aware of any damage caused.
Vinegar is safe for natural rubber seals and any parts made from polypropelene, silicone, fluorocarbon, and virgin Teflon, as well as butyl synthetic rubber seals. So told.....by some one, the pain is on a fully joined chain as you cannot remove it unless its at the end of its life. to short to but back on if cut off. Thanks Dal
Hi Del, ... recently asked you a question about the chain tensioner issues on my 2008 Night Train and you answerd in a detailed fashion and reassured me that there was not anything to really worry about so thanks for that, I maybe going for the S&S replacement kit later on just for peace of mind. I have another question that I hope you can help me with. Ive only ever ridden HDs that have final chain drive... until recently when I took on a project chopper ...she had a belt drive ... the bike is finished,. No problems with the belt drive.No fuss... no lube...no stretching to worry about etc. Great. However when I took a look at my new ride the 2008 Night Train I notice the final belt drive is considerably thinner/slimmer like 20mm approx. As I understand it the slimmer belt is HDs answer to putting a 200 rear tyre on.Why did they go for this option? surley they could have still put a wider belt on. My question is: In your opinion.... should I change this over to a wider belt? ... is it much more likely that this slimmer belt will "snap"... on me than a wider belt? Or am I being concerned over nothing.... again. Appreciate your thoughts. Thanks. Ade.
Hi again Adrian, in a word, NO ! Those belts are easily strong enough for your newer model bike... you assume right, they fitted the slimline belt for clearance in order to accommodate the 200 tyre, so you'd have a lot of work to do if you wanted to fit a wider one, if you were going to go to all that trouble, you'd be better fitting a chain and sprockets.. As long as a belts is correctly tensioned it will be more than strong enough for the power and weight that bike has.. belts only break for two reasons, either they are worn out and have teeth missing, or they are way too loose and jump the pulley under load.. that can cause them to fracture.... but in all my 37 years riding, I've never seen a healthy belt break. im sure you can imagine that the factory would have tested that belt width exhaustively before they released it for sale.. you know what Americans are like for warranty and litigation.. they don't take careless risks with liability... so ive never questioned them mate.. Hope that helps.. snowing hard here this morning, so no ride till after lunch.. lol!
I'm a bit confused, for what reason would someone want to soak thier chains in vinegar for prolonged periods? Normal chain clean and lube works well like in another of your videos even on rust. As for your chain the rollers may of been pitted before you started if already rusty so it would be nice to know if it was the vinegar that's caused it.
Love the experiment. I need to do some reworking of the shed so looking forward to the inspiration of your helmet stands - I've got old candlesticks and such in my scrap metal pile, sadly all just the basic twist. Not that I will be copying, but I'm looking for sparks.
Copy away buddy, its all in the execution aye... going to make a big heavy steel helmet stand this week, using up the old bike parts, and a secret weapon for the top dome of the stand.....
Why use 8 weeks to clean a MC chain in the first place? Why not with a similar chain rinse it off every one week? And as a follow up question to my first one; why not let it in there for a year, or eight?
Shit Del, now youre saying i cant use vinegar safely... I jumped the gun and got excited at the easy clean idea when you first put the chain in. Gonna have to pull my bike out of our new vinegar swimming pool now.... :D Have a good un
Never mind mate, at least you know the tyres won't have rotted lol ... and while you have the vinegar there, imagine the size of the bag of chips you'll need for all that lot !
Craig Licata how can a cleaner have a lubricant in it? That's like, the chemical equivalent of dividing by zero... *goes crosseyed* ....what iiiis reaaalliiityyy....
Nice result Del, looking forward to the making of the helmet stand with your new skills from Kai. Hope you are going to clean them gloves before you do the dishes for Penny tonight LOL. Penny and you have a good weekend mate. Cheers
Thanks buddy.. have made a start on the first helmet stand, and it has already come out better then i expected... filming two videos this week as its a longer job than i thought... so Wednesday and Saturdays videos should see the main one completed... enjoy your weekend too buddy.. D&Px
I think you could’ve left the chain for a day and gotten better results. Why eight weeks? It seems like way too long. If you soaked it for a day and then washed it I think you would’ve gotten better results. However, the grease in the o-rings would still probably be gone. I heard a motorcycle reviewer say he never degreases his chain, he just washes it with soap and water. This is because you want to protect the grease in the o-rings from any solvents that you find in chain cleaning products. I’ve started to do this as well. Of course if you ride in the rain a lot, you probably would want to protect the metal from rust. It’s just that once the grease in the o-rings is gone, it’s gone and there’s no putting it back. So I’d rather keep that grease safe and let the metal get a little rusty. You’re going to change the sprockets anyway so it’s not as if you’re damaging some integral part of the bike by riding with a rusty chain. I’d say it’s better to have a chain that doesn’t have kinks in it because of a lack of grease.
Love your channel and advice. Timely segment. What is your advice for dealing with light surface rust on a motorcycle chain. Seems like no matter how much I clean and lubricate my chain, after sitting for a few weeks under the cover in my carport, I come out to surface rust on the chain. I wipe down with a shop towel and some WD40 and that seems to remove the majority of it before my ride. Is there a better way? Is it okay to put the bike up on a paddock stand and use a mild scotch bite pad to lightly clean off the surface rust on a chain, wipe down with WD40 before re-lubricating it with Chain Wax or some other appropriate chain lube?
Hi buddy, you're on the right lines, but just a couple of adjustments with regard to cleaning light rust off your chain, firstly I wouldn't use a Scotchbrite cos it's like a cloth, will get quickly loaded up with gunk and you're just spreading the gunk around then... I use an old toothbrush as it gets in between all the little corners and doesn't scratch anything, specially the anodising on the outside of the plates, best not to use abrasive things on your chain, and secondly... rather than WD40, which is a pretty fierce solvent and can wash the grease out of your chain, why not try kerosene, or diesel, they are similar to WD40, but without the spirit based solvent... in fact, you can even clean chains with fresh engine oil, it still gets them nice and clean... if you want proof of that, have you ever had really black greasy hands, and then got fresh oil on them and wiped with a cloth, your hands come up spotlessly clean... the main point here is, not how to clean that light rust off, but how to stop it forming, if you have a damp garage and your bike under a cover... many of us have to leave our bikes in the damp, and one of the greatest ways to prevent metal rusting in the damp is good ol' Vaseline... Use regular chain lube day to day, and don't clean it off, just for when you're storing the bike up, take a fat handful of Vaseline, hold it round the chain, and very carefully, wipe it along the length of the chain, covering it all up.. this will keep the moisture out no matter what - then when you come to use the bike again, gets some shop towels, wipe it all off, and re-lube the chain with a can of chain lube... But when you are wiping the Vaseline on , and off again, Please be VERY careful you don't trap your hand, and for GOD SAKE DON'T run the engine to spin the wheel, people have lost fingers doing that... hope that helps you buddy, good luck Del
I once did a similar experiment with dilute 35% HCl available from builders merchant for brick mortar cleaning.... you don't need 7 weeks more like 7 minutes !! Obviously you need goggles and rubber gloves...and it's better to degrease chain first..but results are rapid...took chain out and dunked in bucket of water to dilute acid. Then coated with WD40 then dropped into bucket of fresh engine oil....the links moved freely after that I can tell you...alternatively if u have an ultrasonic cleaner that would be an easier method of cleaning with a mild degreaser..they are not that expensive
Moonfleet41 True it's not for the faint hearted but as I've spent years messing about with chemicals having studied Chemistry you know the hazards and minimise the risks....I should have said do in a well ventilated space, preferably outside.. For those unfamiliar with what they are playing with I'd advise googling the chemical and COSHH then you get to responsibly understand the potential hazard to your health and your subscribers ! I've done a lot of derusting experiments using electrolysis which for me is the best way of sympathetically removing rust off parts in general...hoping to do some zinc plating at some point as that is the holy grail of rust prevention in the long run.
Hi, it looks great for that use. I think that the last test you should do is taste the linkage pins to see if the vinegar passed through the o'rings hhha . interesting proect . Thanks. gus
Hi Del, I have just watched this video and also read the comments from Tex Rex. I went to a Triumph dealer yesterday to look at purchasing a Triumph Street Scrambler 2017 (less than 3 years old). I was concerned as the front wheel spokes where rusty (salesman told me he had tried to remove the rust but couldn't get them clean). I also noticed that the chain was rusty too! (don't think it had been oiled in the 3 years it was on the road). Alarm signals went up as now I'm convinced the bike has not been looked after and there could be more issues that I am unaware of. My question is: Are these problems easily resolved ? or, should I walk away? Not seen you do a video on cleaning rust off wheel spokes and it seems from this video that the chain maybe best replaced? Thanks you
Hi there.. you can always clean rust off chrome parts, Autosol, Chrome Cleaner, even steel wool.. but it will inevitably come back quickly, you can't "un-rust" rusty spokes, so maybe consider having them re-spoked with stainless spokes.. or powder coated, which isn't ideal.. in the end, rusty parts can only ever be removed.. they don't call it "tin cancer" for nothing.
Awesome work as always buddy. I can't wait until you finish and I hope I know when it goes on eBay cuz I'm very interested in buying it or hopefully bidding the highest for it....God Bless You~Penny
Hi Paul. Thank you so much for that kind encouragement.. its all finished now, and looks just plain crazy.. its almost 2 feet tall and weighs 12 lbs, but with a helmet on it it looks perfect, so many of them look too small for a helmet once you get one on it.. i still have to edit the footage for Saturday, but it will be worth it.. Not really sure about ebay, everyone waits until l the last second to get it as cheap as possible, there may be another away.. why not drop us an email and we can talk.. Take care.. D&Px
Hi Del, looking forward to see what you make from the parts, now catching up on YT vids. I was lucky enough to finally go for a transplant on Sunday 11th March, it went ahead that midnight (12th) all went well. Been home almost a week and getting my strength and stamina back bit by bit each day.
Oh thats wonderful news my friend, congratulations, and please accept a huge "Get-Well-Soon" from both of us.. we hope you;re comfortable and making progress.. take care of yourself, and remember, "cash in the attic" and 'bargain hunt" cant get dangerously addictive buddy... Keep in touch.. D&Px
Moonfleet41 Thanks guys, feeling pretty good but will be a little while getting up to speed again. Even longer to get back on the bike, worth it all though 👍
Hi ya del. Good little experiment there bruv. I'm doing a similar one but a comparison test. One chain in wd40 and one in clean engines oil. It has been soaking for 4 weeks and I'm gonna leave it for another 2 weeks before removing them to see if either of the chains can be reused. They are DID chains and both of them have only done less than 10,000 miles and both have links that don't swivel on the pins. A couple of frozen links not completely frozen but still not freely pivoting. I'm interested to see if they can be freed up. Keep them video's coming bruvva we love em. Ride safe.
Hi Ray, there is a little trick for a frozen link, if it's only the one, and that is you can just replace it mate... firstly a frozen link that can be moved, means it's binding heavily, so will get hot, then the pin expands and well, you can guess the rest! But if you can carefully split that link, and remove it, you can replace it with a new compression link and that could give you the rest of the mileage from that chain, but in all seriousness, two compression links in a chain isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not brilliant either, but riding with a frozen link is downright stupid, it writes them off every time mate... you can't un-rust rust, yeah you can remove it, but it leaves the metal scarred and reduced in strength... good luck with your experiment, let us know how you get on !!
Well, it will act as a solvent, and release the thick deposits of chain wax and grease, but it won't really make it clean, like perhaps kerosene or something...
I’ve used wd40 for all my chains over many years and I get 12000 miles easy per chain replace,no wash ,no water,no oil,no grease or chain sprays just good old wd40 regularly and I’ve never had a problem.Simple-----ps I don’t need people telling me wha twd40 does or don’t do I’m saying for me it works👍just saying
I wonder (if you had the money to waste) what the result would be on a new chain as you said the rough finish could have been due to the rust on it, interesting experiment. I just bought 2 new 2 seater lounges for our living room & my clumsy mate just tipped some coffee over the arm of one, big stain. I used a solution of white vinegar & warm water & dish washing liquid , great result. 👍😎
Don't you love grandmas remedies.. the most fascinating one is red wine stains, tip some white wine on it and it vanished like disheartening ink...!!!! I think the acid would eventually etch into bare steel whether its new or old.. Have a great weekend.. D&Px
Hi Lyndon, first of all, DON'T use vinegar, not a good idea... for internal tank rust, two stage process, firstly, a pint of diesel (yes diesel) and a handful of tiny nuts, maybe M6 at biggest, then seal it up and shake the shit out of it 1/2hr, all round, like a Tom Cruise cocktail, and that will scuff and scratch all the rust out the inside, then open it up, safely dispose of the rusty diesel mixture, wash it out thoroughly with fresh petrol and let it dry, then treat the inside of the tank with a petseal product, which is a 2-part epoxy, gives it a bonded plastic lining, which traps and solidifies any remaining rust and prevents any new rust from forming... then once you get back to using the tank, make sure you run a fuel filter inline between the tap and carbs...
When you dismantled the links the inside looked really dry! Seems to me like over time that vinegar would get in behind the o-rings and dissolve the grease in there. Or affect it some other way. Having intact X-rings won't help much if there's nothing behind them anymore... :D I also would not recommend this method. Also vinegar isn't much cheaper - if at all - than the kerosene most chain manufacturers recommend. (Though yours might not, check your instructions!)
This wasn't to restore the chain for use, it was to strip it of all rust and grease in order to use it for welding in to a sculpture, I would not recommend it for any chain to be used on a bike!
Kerosene is great, but it's important to get rid of it all once the chain is clean, as being a solvent, it will continue to disolve the new chain lube when you re-apply it, so even though it's messy, it's a good idea to use an air lie to dry all the kerosene out of the chain links, it's ok with evaporating solvents, because they dry away on their own, but kerosene is a little heavier, more like an oil, so it takes a lot longer to dry away... but as long as you blow it all off, it'll do a great job of cleaning, the same goes for paraffin!
Yes its fine, it will do a good job.. but is is a Solvent, and will also wash ALL of the lubricant out of your chain and leave it bone dry... so you have to then take extra care to properly re-lube your chain with fresh lube of your choice thoroughly... alternatively, i have had a lot of success using just clean brand new engine oil and an old tooth brush... the new oil cleans really well, loosens all the chain wax and grit, makes the chain look like new.. but all the internal oil and lube is retained inside the links.. then i wipe it all off and buff it up clean.. then re-lube over that.. it will fling off a little mess for the first short ride.. so be careful to clean that up and don't let it get onto the tyre wall.. And Yes you should lube a new chain too as they only come with a layer of grease and not proper chain lube on them....Hope that helps.. good luck with it.. Del.
@@MadNath Yeah, thats fine Nathan, no need to over think it.. just wipe the new chain down with a rag and get all the excess grease off, then spray some regular lube over that.. it'll be fine mate.
Hey great fun ! It was like an episode if HOW!! Helmet stands are going to be smart .. I wont go into the chemestry of metal ,acid,alkali as it appears you have seven lectures here already ..! Lets just enjoy the fun nature of this experiment 🤗☮❤
FUN NATURE.... said that right brother Springy - I think there's a few people here could do with a little Ex-Lax... and that's memories, HOW with Fred Drainage !
I don’t agree with you. My reasoning is that if vinegar etched and roughened the inside it would have also have done so on the outside metal would it? So from this reasoning I am assuming the inside of the chain was rough before you did the vinegar process. Makes sense no?
Bit confused at your message... you say you disagree with me, then you ask me questions.... anyway, as you can see, it didn't etch the outside of the chain, but it did take the hold anodising off, and no, the rollers were shiney and smooth
No worries Stephen, i didn't take it that way at all, i think the anodising maybe prevented any etching on the outer plates... and it took that off too in the end.. after all, it was a gold chain, and now its all grey steel... so maybe that counts as some form of etch.. anosizing is there to protect it after all... take care buddy.. have a good week.. Del.
Nice video, Del. I honestly had almost forgotten about your chemistry experiment. Does Mr Dyson know you pinched his toothbrush? Enjoy your Sunday- both of you!
When you pulled out that crispy looking chain I honestly thought the rubbers would be gone, but I was so surprised to see the opposite, the metal coming out worse against quite a strong acid. If you were to clean a chain, what would you use, I'm just wondering, is it something like kerosene, or would that damage the rubber o rings? I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your stand.
Hi buddy, kerosene definitely, diesel is good too, they both work to clean chains, you can even buy dedicated chain cleaning products, but kerosene is very well respected... ! Thanks for your support mate,
You should get yourself an electric toothbrush for the small awkward areas that need cleaning on your bike, I use one and it works excellently(new heads are cheap on eBay). The chain ended up looking great, shame the runners on the chain were destroyed...At least we know not to use Vinegar for cleaning our chains now!
A motorcycle chain should never have rust on it or a light surface rust even if used in all weathers, in fact more so if used in all weathers. It shows a lack of simple routine and essential maintenance. It should always be cleaned and very important lubricated afterwards.
Thanks mate, I have a couple of days off this week, it looks like it'll be two parts, but the design I have in mind is gonna be bonkers lol so think you'll like it !
I dont understand the point of soaking a chain for that long to experiment? If you used the vinegar to clean it then rinsed it and lubed it would you not be fine?
Would you then know whether it had done any damage to the rubbers... could you be sure you'd rinsed it all off... or would any have got underneath them and started to perish them, without testing it over a long period of time how else would you know that...
That chain would be fine to use again. Just because the rollers arent shiny anymore doesnt mean its weaker. Plenty of lube and they'd be shiny again in no time.
Not Necessary Vinegar Cleaning & time wasting ! Just Take The Chain out of Bike Dip in Kerosene Or Diesel 20-30 min.Allow the dirt, Dust to dissolve in it...Then Rub with Brush Clean It completely Clean it Under High Press. air Allow to Dry the Chain under Sunrays. Now Take the Chain and this dip in Gear Oil EP 90 of any brand for another 20-30 min. Now Assemble back in Bike ..! The Chain Will not make any Noise ..Your Bike will be Smooth in Riding !
Vinegar becomes alkaline when consumed by humans, but not sure what ph it is in the natural form,my last chemistry report at school read as follows " Geoff has worked very well this term on at least one occasion ", needless to say I was not the best pupil. Old remedies are great ay Del, hi to PP 😎 👍
You should have used distilled water to "clean" the chain after removing it from the vinegar bath. That would have shown what the vinegar alone did to the chain. Now you messed up the results by degreasing the chain with soapy water...
Moonfleet41 oh i see. :) well just maintain it regullary and dont let it get to rusting point :) little tip if you want to de rust some object you can do it with car battery charger, two buckets of watter and i dont know what ealse... tons of videos on youtube on that topic as well. thanks for the video :)
Hi Del, I've read most of the posts below and having been a scientist in the metal finishing industry for over 35 years I note an awful lot of misguided advice about how to clean the materials used in modern chain manufacture. I'd like to offer my advice, as someone highly experienced in metal cleaning and metal finishing.
Firstly, "know your base materials"...
In modern chains you have 3 base materials (hardened steel links & rivets, sintered steel rollers and elastomer x or o seals).
Second, "know what you are trying to remove"...
Motorcycle chains typically have a mixture of grease, metal particles, road dirt and iron oxide (rust) on the surface. You need to take into account all of the substrates when trying to clean them. Rust for example, was once part of the base material so any significant amount that has developed can result in a much weaker base material and thus premature chain failure.
My advice for cleaning a motorcycle chain would be a two step process.
First remove the grease & oils. These also carry most of the fine metal particles and road dirt that wear the chain rollers and drive sprockets. Use a mild detergent (none solvent type) for example clothes washing liquid, in hot water. Proprietary cleaners are also effective and have usually been tested for compatibility with most elastomer seal materials. Petrol, Paraffin, White Spirits and other household solvents should be avoided unless you know the exact type of elastomer used in the seal for your specific chain and have checked it is not degraded by the solvent being used. Don't soak the chain overnight in any cleaning fluids as it is likely to migrate into the sintered roller materials and cause problems later. Use a nylon brush to remove the heavy soils and grease. Do this as quickly and effectively as possible. After cleaning, thoroughly dry the chain and let is stand overnight somewhere warm and dry. You don't want to lock in any moisture to the sintered rollers or behind the seals before you apply chain lubricant later. Some light surface rust may reappear overnight, which can easily be brushed off.
Secondly, cleaning the sintered steel roller, hardened steel side plates and rivets should be done only after removing the grease and oils. Remember the sintered steel roller are sensitive to prolonged exposure to acids, surfactants and alkaline cleaners, so exposure time should be kept to a minimum. DO NOT use strong acids of any kind. If the rust is light, simply use a fine steel wire brush (not brass!). Brass is an alloy of coper and zinc, particles of this alloy can accelerate corrosion on the steel if left in contact with it. Use only a steel wire brush. If the corrosion or rust is excessive, I would not recommend cleaning it but replacing the chain. Heavy rust is a clear indication that chain has suffered poor maintenance and will most likely be weaker than the designers originally intended.
Once the light rust is removed, inspect the rollers for pitting and wear. If there is a significant amount of either, again I would replace the chain.
Once cleaned, make sure you lubricate the chain thoroughly with a recommended chain lubricant. The detergent used for cleaning may have penetrated the sintered rollers or behind the seals and have removed some of the original lubricant applied at manufacture. A good coating of chain lubricant should supplement this once the chain is running at normal operating temperature.
Hope this helps...
** Rust for example, was once part of the base material so any significant
amount that has developed can result in a much weaker base material and
thus premature chain failure**
I mentioned this in the video, so good to know i got that part of it right..!
Thank you for your lengthy and detailed input Tex.. much appreciated mate. .
You're welcome. Love the videos Del, please keep them coming.
Wow! Alot of priceless info .. I really appreciate your words. Thanks.
Yea vinegar is bad for metal, anything I care about doesnt touch it. Especially my old stanley woodworking tools
Excellent advice, thank you! The steel versus brass brush was something I had no idea about.
Vinegar is an acid, typically between 2.4 and 2.6 pH. I use vinegar to remove rust semi-frequently. It shouldn't take more than 48 hours to remove even the heaviest surface rust if you turn the rusted object over and agitate the vinegar every now and then. There may be some light toothbrush/wire brush scrubbing needed for any deeper pits, but nothing more. 8 weeks is SUPER overkill and is almost certainly the reason the metal was partially dissolved on the rollers. You may even want to raise the pH some if working with more delicate items.
Just figured I'd share since I haven't seen a comment like this yet.
Hi mate, you're dead right, and I agree with everything you say... I've used this vinegar simply on a rag as a light wash to wipe over a panel that's been in a damp garage for a few days without paint, it's great for that purpose, and indeed, it doesn't take time... the reason I took 2 months at it was as an experiment ... did you see that yellowy brown scum it was sitting in and I wanted to see, as so many people had asked, whether it would, indeed, dissolve the rubbers, because I'd never seen anybody answer that, so needed to find out for myself.... and now we all know that vinegar doesn't touch that rubbers, even after two months........ What was interesting though, was that after 2 weeks in the vinegar, the chain was un-touched practically, but after two months it had taken the andosing off... that was a gold chain remember... and look at it afterwards, shiney grey steel !
This is my favorite method for removing rust. It will destroy finishes it left in too long. 24 hours in the vinegar will loosen the rust up enough to scrub off in most cases. Great info thanks for posting!
Love watching your little experiments Del. Good idea on what to do with an old motorcycle chain, use it to make a sculpture with.
Love these videos - answering questions that we have all thought, but never had the patience to test!
Very thorough Del! Love the outside the box. Wondering how the test would have resulted with a piece of new, unrusted chain. That'd give you an idea of it was the vinegar that roughed the chain up or if it was the rust. Thanks!
Great for eating rust, old school restoration trick. My son has 5 gallon bucket full for his old truck parts. It’s corrosive though, so I would have been skeptical as to the integrity of the grease inside the o-rings after. Even if it had not left a rough finish. Another good video!
I used viniger for my bicycle chain. Left overnight. Came clean, but it rerusted within a half hour. Put oil over it. I put it back on the bike. Rode 2 blocks and it snapped. I guess rust weakened the chain. Maybe viniger maybe be useful on other things but not important things as drivetrain. Lesson learned. Got a new chain now.
Thanks for doing this. I will probably never have to do this but I can tell my mates about it so you have helped about a dozen bikers just through me.
Best Wishes, Brendan.
Thank you Brendan, you know what they say about the human race, we're all connected by just 5 points of contact every single one of us !!
If you don’t use baking soda after vinegar it wil rust twice as fast
Yeah great - neutrallize it and make SALT instead... :-(
Hi Delboy. Interesting re the vinegar clean. I've been using vinegar for years as a cleaning agent without any probs. trick is not to leave it in too long. Another thing i've been using is swarfega. Apply with a soft detail brush and work it in then rinse off with water then wash with soapy water then rinse again. Brilliant for removing tar/dirt from body panels too. Keep up the good work.
Hello Pedro, thank you so much for that amazing tip on tar from body panels, ain't that the bane of our lives! I would imagine it would work on exhausts as well, as it burns on?? With the vinegar we had multiple people ask us 'will it perish the rubbers on the chain?', I knew that 2months would etch the metal as some point, and it took the anodizing off the gold plates too, but I left it that long specifically to see what it did tot he rubbers, and as you saw, it did nothing at all, they were unaffected, which was a very surprising result !
That is interesting that the acid in the vinegar didn’t hurt the o-rings. I have used vinegar on various things to remove rust. Vinegar will remove rust in a day sometimes it takes two days. I think if you would’ve soaked it for two days I think you would have got the rust off without giving the acid time to etch the rollers. Keep up the great work on the videos.
Cheers buddy, it was an experiment, I noticed that the majority of the cack indeed floated up to the surface in a few days, but with everyone suggesting how it damages metal, I wanted to see how much damage it would do over a lot longer, and as it was a scrap chain, it was a great chance to test it out!
Argh! The bane of the chain! Cheers for this little experiment of yours. I live in a village surrounded by 5 working quarries, argh!, ( bikers nightmare,lol) and I'm doing my best to keep the greasy fine sand,dirt,diesel oils off my chain AND bike....hopeless endeavour,really...so I've gone through many products to keep the chain protected. Well, you've scratched vinegar off my list, thanks Del! Informative as ever!! Safe riding! :-)
cool video....BADASS music!!! never would have thought of vinegar......used it for bug bites and other stuff! thanks.
Vinegar with separate/loosen the rust off the bare metal within 1-2 hours. After that, it will start corroding the bare metal itself. The blue rust free coating on a chain is the same thing you find on a rifle barrel. Vinegar will strip it right off and then it'll be even more susceptible for corrosion.
Thanks for the great effort and the valuable info.
It is just acetic acid. Stainless is generally safe. You use strong acids (nitric) to clean iron oxides out of the surfaces of stainless, but any organic acid will damage yellow metals (brass & copper) and platings will often be degraded or completely removed. On galvanized or bolts that are zinc coated, it will remove those protective coatings so depending on the chain, and the coatings used on those plates and rollers, I'd expect any acid with long-time exposure to damage them. We use phosphonate and a blend of polymers that are pH neutral in industrial systems to safely clean them. Generally, contact time and concentration are parameters to control how aggressive the cleaning. Adding heat and mechanical action (brushing) helps the cleaning process. But I would never soak a chain in any cleaner for extended periods of time. You have too many materials that have different properties, including lubricants sealed behind the o-rings. You shouldn't let your chain get excessively rusty to begin with but generally, you need to clean off oils/dirt and some iron oxide and then quickly reapply a protective lubricant. It isn't rocket science.... just clean it and lube it and put it back in action but don't use wire brushes on o-ring chains.
Vinegar is perfectly ok for a chain, if you don't soak the chain in vinegar for two months. 24 hours is long enough to remove any rust your chain is now rough prolly because the vinegar, which is a mild acid, was starting to eat the steel were is was weakened (under the rust) as well.
You can brush your teeth using lemon juice once a week maximum and it'll do no damage and have a very positive effect on them, bu if you do it everytime you brush your teeth it will eat your enamel and let you toothless.
Drinking two liters of water a day is optimal, drinking 10 liter is lethal.
Moderation is key in everything.
Can’t believe it , after commenting yesterday on the “floating “ vice that was the itch I couldn’t scratch you’d already drilled the bench and got it sorted ! Nice one ... good luck with the sculpture. C
Thanks mate, as you'll see, in up coming videos, am gonna need it lol !
Thanks Dell a good experiment to see how robust the chain "o" rings, are and found other issues, days gone bye colleagues have used white diesel to free up rusted and seized parts which probably isn't so corrosive........now back to tea and biscuits to celebrate my birthday....
Have a great birthday buddy... and thanks for your input !
Have a great birthday buddy... and thanks for your input !
Ever try cleaning metal with molasses? I threw some XS650 parts in water and molasses and thinking it was mind, forgot about it for a few months. Molasses dissolves metal, don't let anybody fool you. Wrecked a lot of good parts.
i used electrolysis to de-rust a chain
Ichiban Moto
Electrolysis is always the best option as it only tackles the rust !
Mr Ichiban. I really do miss your vids. Please get on it again :/
oh yes! I will be doing some camera shopping this week !
What ever methods you use to remove rust from metal surface leaves the metal surface rough. When metal is rusted, it is rusted. Rust don't come from outer space, it comes from metal. Removing rust don't meen that the rust is turning back to metal. It's gone. Forever.
I watched that electrolysis video. It was badass!
A good experiment del and a good idea to clean chain to make something else keep up the great work cheers Colin
Yes, the air compressor blowing off the chain reduces flash rust!!
Thankyou very much for pointing out the exact corrosive nature of vinegar.
Excellent experiment. Vinegar is a mild acid so it etched the steel when left that long submerged. Artists use it to rapidly rust mild steel artwork.
Didn't know the vinegar trick so good to know. I have always used petrol but you can still hear bits of grit in the rollers occasionally. But hey thanks for the tip.
good experiment Mate..your videos are all gem .. keep making educational videos ..bets wishes
A lot of folk seem to have missed the point here. It was an experiment to see what it would do and how the o-rings would stand up to the vinegar. It would obviously have to be done over a good length of time, to exaggerate any effect, otherwise you might not see any effect and hence not be aware of any damage caused.
Didn't You burn the o-rings with the torch?
Vinegar is safe for natural rubber seals and any parts made from polypropelene, silicone, fluorocarbon, and virgin Teflon, as well as butyl synthetic rubber seals. So told.....by some one, the pain is on a fully joined chain as you cannot remove it unless its at the end of its life. to short to but back on if cut off. Thanks Dal
Hi Del, ... recently asked you a question about the chain tensioner issues on my 2008 Night Train and you answerd in a detailed fashion and reassured me that there was not anything to really worry about so thanks for that, I maybe going for the S&S replacement kit later on just for peace of mind.
I have another question that I hope you can help me with.
Ive only ever ridden HDs that have final chain drive... until recently when I took on a project chopper ...she had a belt drive ... the bike is finished,. No problems with the belt drive.No fuss... no lube...no stretching to worry about etc. Great.
However when I took a look at my new ride the 2008 Night Train I notice the final belt drive is considerably thinner/slimmer like 20mm approx.
As I understand it the slimmer belt is HDs answer to putting a 200 rear tyre on.Why did they go for this option? surley they could have still put a wider belt on.
My question is:
In your opinion.... should I change this over to a wider belt? ... is it much more likely that this slimmer belt will "snap"... on me than a wider belt?
Or am I being concerned over nothing.... again.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Thanks. Ade.
Hi again Adrian, in a word, NO ! Those belts are easily strong enough for your newer model bike... you assume right, they fitted the slimline belt for clearance in order to accommodate the 200 tyre, so you'd have a lot of work to do if you wanted to fit a wider one, if you were going to go to all that trouble, you'd be better fitting a chain and sprockets..
As long as a belts is correctly tensioned it will be more than strong enough for the power and weight that bike has.. belts only break for two reasons, either they are worn out and have teeth missing, or they are way too loose and jump the pulley under load.. that can cause them to fracture.... but in all my 37 years riding, I've never seen a healthy belt break. im sure you can imagine that the factory would have tested that belt width exhaustively before they released it for sale.. you know what Americans are like for warranty and litigation.. they don't take careless risks with liability... so ive never questioned them mate.. Hope that helps.. snowing hard here this morning, so no ride till after lunch.. lol!
Thanks Del. Appreciated.
I'm a bit confused, for what reason would someone want to soak thier chains in vinegar for prolonged periods? Normal chain clean and lube works well like in another of your videos even on rust.
As for your chain the rollers may of been pitted before you started if already rusty so it would be nice to know if it was the vinegar that's caused it.
Love the experiment. I need to do some reworking of the shed so looking forward to the inspiration of your helmet stands - I've got old candlesticks and such in my scrap metal pile, sadly all just the basic twist. Not that I will be copying, but I'm looking for sparks.
Copy away buddy, its all in the execution aye... going to make a big heavy steel helmet stand this week, using up the old bike parts, and a secret weapon for the top dome of the stand.....
Why use 8 weeks to clean a MC chain in the first place? Why not with a similar chain rinse it off every one week? And as a follow up question to my first one; why not let it in there for a year, or eight?
Watch the rest of the video my friend, and all your questions will be answered because you clearly haven't...
how many days did you put that on a vinegar, if its morethan 3day, it will compromise its integrity of the chain
It's a scrap chain and it was an 'experiment' to see what happens!
Shit Del, now youre saying i cant use vinegar safely...
I jumped the gun and got excited at the easy clean idea when you first put the chain in.
Gonna have to pull my bike out of our new vinegar swimming pool now....
:D
Have a good un
Never mind mate, at least you know the tyres won't have rotted lol ... and while you have the vinegar there, imagine the size of the bag of chips you'll need for all that lot !
Craig Licata how can a cleaner have a lubricant in it?
That's like, the chemical equivalent of dividing by zero...
*goes crosseyed*
....what iiiis reaaalliiityyy....
Nice result Del, looking forward to the making of the helmet stand with your new skills from Kai. Hope you are going to clean them gloves before you do the dishes for Penny tonight LOL. Penny and you have a good weekend mate. Cheers
Thanks buddy.. have made a start on the first helmet stand, and it has already come out better then i expected... filming two videos this week as its a longer job than i thought... so Wednesday and Saturdays videos should see the main one completed... enjoy your weekend too buddy.. D&Px
yes but has it flushed all the lube out of the o ring chain?
I think you could’ve left the chain for a day and gotten better results. Why eight weeks? It seems like way too long. If you soaked it for a day and then washed it I think you would’ve gotten better results. However, the grease in the o-rings would still probably be gone. I heard a motorcycle reviewer say he never degreases his chain, he just washes it with soap and water. This is because you want to protect the grease in the o-rings from any solvents that you find in chain cleaning products. I’ve started to do this as well. Of course if you ride in the rain a lot, you probably would want to protect the metal from rust. It’s just that once the grease in the o-rings is gone, it’s gone and there’s no putting it back. So I’d rather keep that grease safe and let the metal get a little rusty. You’re going to change the sprockets anyway so it’s not as if you’re damaging some integral part of the bike by riding with a rusty chain. I’d say it’s better to have a chain that doesn’t have kinks in it because of a lack of grease.
Love your channel and advice. Timely segment. What is your advice for dealing with light surface rust on a motorcycle chain. Seems like no matter how much I clean and lubricate my chain, after sitting for a few weeks under the cover in my carport, I come out to surface rust on the chain. I wipe down with a shop towel and some WD40 and that seems to remove the majority of it before my ride. Is there a better way? Is it okay to put the bike up on a paddock stand and use a mild scotch bite pad to lightly clean off the surface rust on a chain, wipe down with WD40 before re-lubricating it with Chain Wax or some other appropriate chain lube?
Hi buddy, you're on the right lines, but just a couple of adjustments with regard to cleaning light rust off your chain, firstly I wouldn't use a Scotchbrite cos it's like a cloth, will get quickly loaded up with gunk and you're just spreading the gunk around then... I use an old toothbrush as it gets in between all the little corners and doesn't scratch anything, specially the anodising on the outside of the plates, best not to use abrasive things on your chain, and secondly... rather than WD40, which is a pretty fierce solvent and can wash the grease out of your chain, why not try kerosene, or diesel, they are similar to WD40, but without the spirit based solvent... in fact, you can even clean chains with fresh engine oil, it still gets them nice and clean... if you want proof of that, have you ever had really black greasy hands, and then got fresh oil on them and wiped with a cloth, your hands come up spotlessly clean... the main point here is, not how to clean that light rust off, but how to stop it forming, if you have a damp garage and your bike under a cover... many of us have to leave our bikes in the damp, and one of the greatest ways to prevent metal rusting in the damp is good ol' Vaseline...
Use regular chain lube day to day, and don't clean it off, just for when you're storing the bike up, take a fat handful of Vaseline, hold it round the chain, and very carefully, wipe it along the length of the chain, covering it all up.. this will keep the moisture out no matter what - then when you come to use the bike again, gets some shop towels, wipe it all off, and re-lube the chain with a can of chain lube...
But when you are wiping the Vaseline on , and off again, Please be VERY careful you don't trap your hand, and for GOD SAKE DON'T run the engine to spin the wheel, people have lost fingers doing that... hope that helps you buddy, good luck Del
I once did a similar experiment with dilute 35% HCl available from builders merchant for brick mortar cleaning.... you don't need 7 weeks more like 7 minutes !! Obviously you need goggles and rubber gloves...and it's better to degrease chain first..but results are rapid...took chain out and dunked in bucket of water to dilute acid. Then coated with WD40 then dropped into bucket of fresh engine oil....the links moved freely after that I can tell you...alternatively if u have an ultrasonic cleaner that would be an easier method of cleaning with a mild degreaser..they are not that expensive
I've used that stuff myself as a product called Discrete, pretty scary stuff, you need gloves so thick you could hardly move yer fingers !
Moonfleet41
True it's not for the faint hearted but as I've spent years messing about with chemicals having studied Chemistry you know the hazards and minimise the risks....I should have said do in a well ventilated space, preferably outside.. For those unfamiliar with what they are playing with I'd advise googling the chemical and COSHH then you get to responsibly understand the potential hazard to your health and your subscribers !
I've done a lot of derusting experiments using electrolysis which for me is the best way of sympathetically removing rust off parts in general...hoping to do some zinc plating at some point as that is the holy grail of rust prevention in the long run.
Hi, it looks great for that use. I think that the last test you should do is taste the linkage pins to see if the vinegar passed through the o'rings hhha . interesting proect . Thanks. gus
Hi Del, I have just watched this video and also read the comments from Tex Rex. I went to a Triumph dealer yesterday to look at purchasing a Triumph Street Scrambler 2017 (less than 3 years old). I was concerned as the front wheel spokes where rusty (salesman told me he had tried to remove the rust but couldn't get them clean). I also noticed that the chain was rusty too! (don't think it had been oiled in the 3 years it was on the road). Alarm signals went up as now I'm convinced the bike has not been looked after and there could be more issues that I am unaware of. My question is: Are these problems easily resolved ? or, should I walk away? Not seen you do a video on cleaning rust off wheel spokes and it seems from this video that the chain maybe best replaced? Thanks you
Hi there.. you can always clean rust off chrome parts, Autosol, Chrome Cleaner, even steel wool.. but it will inevitably come back quickly, you can't "un-rust" rusty spokes, so maybe consider having them re-spoked with stainless spokes.. or powder coated, which isn't ideal.. in the end, rusty parts can only ever be removed.. they don't call it "tin cancer" for nothing.
@@Moonfleet41 Thanks for the advice - always appreciated.
Weird, but it made me feel hungry when you lifted the lid !!!
Lasagna!
Awesome work as always buddy. I can't wait until you finish and I hope I know when it goes on eBay cuz I'm very interested in buying it or hopefully bidding the highest for it....God Bless You~Penny
Hi Paul.
Thank you so much for that kind encouragement.. its all finished now, and looks just plain crazy.. its almost 2 feet tall and weighs 12 lbs, but with a helmet on it it looks perfect, so many of them look too small for a helmet once you get one on it.. i still have to edit the footage for Saturday, but it will be worth it..
Not really sure about ebay, everyone waits until l the last second to get it as cheap as possible, there may be another away.. why not drop us an email and we can talk.. Take care.. D&Px
Moonfleet41 okay
Hi Del, looking forward to see what you make from the parts, now catching up on YT vids. I was lucky enough to finally go for a transplant on Sunday 11th March, it went ahead that midnight (12th) all went well. Been home almost a week and getting my strength and stamina back bit by bit each day.
Oh thats wonderful news my friend, congratulations, and please accept a huge "Get-Well-Soon" from both of us.. we hope you;re comfortable and making progress.. take care of yourself, and remember, "cash in the attic" and 'bargain hunt" cant get dangerously addictive buddy... Keep in touch.. D&Px
Moonfleet41 Thanks guys, feeling pretty good but will be a little while getting up to speed again. Even longer to get back on the bike, worth it all though 👍
Quick Tip: a wire brush wheel on a bench grinder will make much quicker work of this project.
Hi ya del. Good little experiment there bruv. I'm doing a similar one but a comparison test. One chain in wd40 and one in clean engines oil. It has been soaking for 4 weeks and I'm gonna leave it for another 2 weeks before removing them to see if either of the chains can be reused. They are DID chains and both of them have only done less than 10,000 miles and both have links that don't swivel on the pins. A couple of frozen links not completely frozen but still not freely pivoting. I'm interested to see if they can be freed up. Keep them video's coming bruvva we love em. Ride safe.
Hi Ray, there is a little trick for a frozen link, if it's only the one, and that is you can just replace it mate... firstly a frozen link that can be moved, means it's binding heavily, so will get hot, then the pin expands and well, you can guess the rest! But if you can carefully split that link, and remove it, you can replace it with a new compression link and that could give you the rest of the mileage from that chain, but in all seriousness, two compression links in a chain isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's not brilliant either, but riding with a frozen link is downright stupid, it writes them off every time mate... you can't un-rust rust, yeah you can remove it, but it leaves the metal scarred and reduced in strength... good luck with your experiment, let us know how you get on !!
I've got loads of unused engine oil that I'm not prepared to put in my vehicles. Would this be any good at cleaning chain?
Well, it will act as a solvent, and release the thick deposits of chain wax and grease, but it won't really make it clean, like perhaps kerosene or something...
@@Moonfleet41 parrafin is what I've always used in the past . I hate throwing away stuff and hoped the oil could be of use for the chain.
Great Experiment... Very interesting..👍
Can you clean rust off using altrasonik clearner?
I’ve used wd40 for all my chains over many years and I get 12000 miles easy per chain replace,no wash ,no water,no oil,no grease or chain sprays just good old wd40 regularly and I’ve never had a problem.Simple-----ps I don’t need people telling me wha twd40 does or don’t do I’m saying for me it works👍just saying
12000! 😬
would do the test on a used but not rusted chain to see if some conclusion
Brilliant detailed video as usual Dell. Great advice at the end, not worth the risk, get a new chain instead. Thanks, Vinny. ;-)
Glad you enjoyed it buddy.
I wonder (if you had the money to waste) what the result would be on a new chain as you said the rough finish could have been due to the rust on it, interesting experiment. I just bought 2 new 2 seater lounges for our living room & my clumsy mate just tipped some coffee over the arm of one, big stain. I used a solution of white vinegar & warm water & dish washing liquid , great result. 👍😎
Don't you love grandmas remedies.. the most fascinating one is red wine stains, tip some white wine on it and it vanished like disheartening ink...!!!! I think the acid would eventually etch into bare steel whether its new or old..
Have a great weekend.. D&Px
Would the chain not smoothen out on the bike while running on the sprockets?
Good vid mate
Hey Del. What about surface rust in a tank? What would you suggest?
Hi Lyndon, first of all, DON'T use vinegar, not a good idea... for internal tank rust, two stage process, firstly, a pint of diesel (yes diesel) and a handful of tiny nuts, maybe M6 at biggest, then seal it up and shake the shit out of it 1/2hr, all round, like a Tom Cruise cocktail, and that will scuff and scratch all the rust out the inside, then open it up, safely dispose of the rusty diesel mixture, wash it out thoroughly with fresh petrol and let it dry, then treat the inside of the tank with a petseal product, which is a 2-part epoxy, gives it a bonded plastic lining, which traps and solidifies any remaining rust and prevents any new rust from forming... then once you get back to using the tank, make sure you run a fuel filter inline between the tap and carbs...
It’s cleaned up superb mate, look forward to seeing you make the stands, regards Stu
Thanks Stu, next two videos should be fun, the plans for the helmet stand are bonkers if I can pull it off! It's gonna be huge and crazy...
When you dismantled the links the inside looked really dry! Seems to me like over time that vinegar would get in behind the o-rings and dissolve the grease in there. Or affect it some other way. Having intact X-rings won't help much if there's nothing behind them anymore... :D I also would not recommend this method. Also vinegar isn't much cheaper - if at all - than the kerosene most chain manufacturers recommend. (Though yours might not, check your instructions!)
This wasn't to restore the chain for use, it was to strip it of all rust and grease in order to use it for welding in to a sculpture, I would not recommend it for any chain to be used on a bike!
@@Moonfleet41 Yep, you made that clear on the video too 👍 Just thought I'd say that in case someone was still thinking of this.
Amazing info thanks ...
A lot of people are using Kerosene. What is your feedback on that
Kerosene is great, but it's important to get rid of it all once the chain is clean, as being a solvent, it will continue to disolve the new chain lube when you re-apply it, so even though it's messy, it's a good idea to use an air lie to dry all the kerosene out of the chain links, it's ok with evaporating solvents, because they dry away on their own, but kerosene is a little heavier, more like an oil, so it takes a lot longer to dry away... but as long as you blow it all off, it'll do a great job of cleaning, the same goes for paraffin!
@ delboy is wd40 or muc off mo94 okay to clean a chain. Should I lube up a chain even if it Is brand new ?
Yes its fine, it will do a good job.. but is is a Solvent, and will also wash ALL of the lubricant out of your chain and leave it bone dry... so you have to then take extra care to properly re-lube your chain with fresh lube of your choice thoroughly... alternatively, i have had a lot of success using just clean brand new engine oil and an old tooth brush... the new oil cleans really well, loosens all the chain wax and grit, makes the chain look like new.. but all the internal oil and lube is retained inside the links.. then i wipe it all off and buff it up clean.. then re-lube over that.. it will fling off a little mess for the first short ride.. so be careful to clean that up and don't let it get onto the tyre wall.. And Yes you should lube a new chain too as they only come with a layer of grease and not proper chain lube on them....Hope that helps.. good luck with it.. Del.
@@Moonfleet41 can i use normal chain lube on top of the grease that is on the chain? Okay think il just buy some chain cleaner to clean it down then
@@MadNath Yeah, thats fine Nathan, no need to over think it.. just wipe the new chain down with a rag and get all the excess grease off, then spray some regular lube over that.. it'll be fine mate.
vinegar is acetic ACID so it is bound to corrode the metal especially over such a long time
That rough feeling is from your wire brush when you were scrubbing it
Hey great fun ! It was like an episode if HOW!!
Helmet stands are going to be smart ..
I wont go into the chemestry of metal ,acid,alkali as it appears you have seven lectures here already ..!
Lets just enjoy the fun nature of this experiment 🤗☮❤
FUN NATURE.... said that right brother Springy - I think there's a few people here could do with a little Ex-Lax... and that's memories, HOW with Fred Drainage !
and it seems the vinegar took all the grease out of between the o-ring.
Yes indeed, it was a bit powdery in there, but oddly, the wax and grease on the outside of the chain was intact... strange results!
I don’t agree with you. My reasoning is that if vinegar etched and roughened the inside it would have also have done so on the outside metal would it? So from this reasoning I am assuming the inside of the chain was rough before you did the vinegar process. Makes sense no?
Bit confused at your message... you say you disagree with me, then you ask me questions.... anyway, as you can see, it didn't etch the outside of the chain, but it did take the hold anodising off, and no, the rollers were shiney and smooth
No worries Stephen, i didn't take it that way at all, i think the anodising maybe prevented any etching on the outer plates... and it took that off too in the end.. after all, it was a gold chain, and now its all grey steel... so maybe that counts as some form of etch.. anosizing is there to protect it after all... take care buddy.. have a good week.. Del.
Nice video, Del. I honestly had almost forgotten about your chemistry experiment. Does Mr Dyson know you pinched his toothbrush? Enjoy your Sunday- both of you!
Ha ha.. no problem i used Penny's... Great result aye.?
Moonfleet41 haha! Good one...
Good job brother.i think I'll stick with Kerosene lol
Same lol 5 minute job to clean it
Chain manufacturers actually recommend kerosene or paraffin to clean chains, which doesn’t damage the orings...
When you pulled out that crispy looking chain I honestly thought the rubbers would be gone, but I was so surprised to see the opposite, the metal coming out worse against quite a strong acid. If you were to clean a chain, what would you use, I'm just wondering, is it something like kerosene, or would that damage the rubber o rings?
I'm looking forward to seeing what you do with your stand.
Hi buddy, kerosene definitely, diesel is good too, they both work to clean chains, you can even buy dedicated chain cleaning products, but kerosene is very well respected... ! Thanks for your support mate,
You should get yourself an electric toothbrush for the small awkward areas that need cleaning on your bike, I use one and it works excellently(new heads are cheap on eBay). The chain ended up looking great, shame the runners on the chain were destroyed...At least we know not to use Vinegar for cleaning our chains now!
Exactly that Jonny, never use anything corrosive on a chain... even Cola over time would etch the steel...
Ok del cheers can't wait thanks colin
Kerosene and a brush always for me
A motorcycle chain should never have rust on it or a light surface rust even if used in all weathers, in fact more so if used in all weathers. It shows a lack of simple routine and essential maintenance. It should always be cleaned and very important lubricated afterwards.
He didn't use baking soda to neutralize acid. could still be in the joints. Good job though.
Wanting a chain to be clean on the outside to work better is like wanting a cow to be showered in order to taste better
Did you notice how, when I stripped the link apart, it had burnt all the grease out from inside the pins??
Do you mean that it took the grease from inside the links?
Take a look at the point when i opened the link, look at the pins.. all black, dry and powdery..!!
hi del another good video cant waste to see the sculptor
Thanks mate, I have a couple of days off this week, it looks like it'll be two parts, but the design I have in mind is gonna be bonkers lol so think you'll like it !
You think the chain is weak because it doesnt feel smooth?
So... if you put a chain in distilled white vinegar for 7 weeks you get... A lasagne?
I dont understand the point of soaking a chain for that long to experiment?
If you used the vinegar to clean it then rinsed it and lubed it would you not be fine?
Would you then know whether it had done any damage to the rubbers... could you be sure you'd rinsed it all off... or would any have got underneath them and started to perish them, without testing it over a long period of time how else would you know that...
That chain would be fine to use again. Just because the rollers arent shiny anymore doesnt mean its weaker. Plenty of lube and they'd be shiny again in no time.
It had several seized links.. trust me is was toast..
Oh. Seized links is a bit different to non shiney rollers.
Anyway, interesting vid. Thanks for loading it :)
Not Necessary Vinegar Cleaning & time wasting !
Just Take The Chain out of Bike Dip in Kerosene Or Diesel 20-30 min.Allow the dirt, Dust to dissolve in it...Then Rub with Brush Clean It completely Clean it Under High Press. air Allow to Dry the Chain under Sunrays. Now Take the Chain and this dip in Gear Oil EP 90 of any brand for another 20-30 min. Now Assemble back in Bike ..! The Chain Will not make any Noise ..Your Bike will be Smooth in Riding !
There is nothing wrong with that chain....the rough inners will smooth out with use.
Great video thx buddy
Vinegar becomes alkaline when consumed by humans, but not sure what ph it is in the natural form,my last chemistry report at school read as follows " Geoff has worked very well this term on at least one occasion ", needless to say I was not the best pupil. Old remedies are great ay Del, hi to PP 😎 👍
I had similar reports my friend, along with things like 'doesn't play well with others' lol
You should have used distilled water to "clean" the chain after removing it from the vinegar bath. That would have shown what the vinegar alone did to the chain. Now you messed up the results by degreasing the chain with soapy water...
Watch the whole video, it was just an experiment
(P) Mmm Lasagne. Can’t wait to see the finished pieces! 👍🏻
I have some left mate, ill bring it along next weekend if you fancy a slice..
Oh i totally forgot about that x)
Send that to Africa or India someone can raise a family with that rusted chain
why just dont use cerozine or jus diesel. you cant go wrong with those two
yeah, thats great for getting grease and chain wax off. but not the rust.. vinegar kills the rust and that was the experiment..
Moonfleet41 oh i see. :)
well just maintain it regullary and dont let it get to rusting point :)
little tip
if you want to de rust some object you can do it with car battery charger, two buckets of watter and i dont know what ealse... tons of videos on youtube on that topic as well.
thanks for the video :)
I think if it was only in for 24 to 36 hours it would have been totally fine.
Cool idea!!!! 😉😎
Brilliant!
I went to grammar school & acted the fool throughout, what a waste, couldn't wait to get our of there. 😎🖒
If a chain is that rusty, get a new one. If all chains need that much work, I'll get a belt drive or shaft drive.
Im being absolutely serious: i thought that was an oven with a delicious pizza inside
you worked so hard on cleaning this chain, its a shame to put it back on the bike 😂😂
Good experiment Mr. Wizard. As always many many thanks.