I would very much like to hear others' opinions on my controversial belief. I have had a theory for 50 years. I think a never-cleaned and never lubricated chain and sprockets may last just as long as those that are serviced. At least in the Bay Area of CA, where I live, where we have no road salt and mild conditions. Modern chains are greased internally behind rubber O-rings. As for the outside of the chain, I wonder if lubing it just attracts more grit and turns it into sandpaper? So, I am finally running an experiment. I put a new DID chain on my KTM 390 Adventure and am riding it with no maintenance whatsoever. So far, I have 4,000 miles on it, 50%/50% on/off road in CA, NM, AZ, and UT. So far, everything looks fine. If I can get 10,000+ miles without ever looking at it, and without carrying supplies, and with having no mess, I am more than happy and feel I am way ahead.
i clean my chain with parrafin, wipe dry, then apply 80/90 gearbox oil, then wipe off excess, as advised in the owners manual. if anyone is familiar with ryan F9, he did a test and came to the same conclusion
80W90 gear oil applied to warm chain. There is no point trying to layer it on because it will fling off. Just apply half a tea spoon of oil with a narrow paint brush and wipe away any excess to leave a micro layer that stays put with no noticeable fling. Need to apply it more frequently than chain gloop though but it does only takes 2 minutes with no mess. Cheap too!
That's what I do. I do after every ride. Whether 100 miles or 700 miles. A bit of fling .... I'm sure I put more on than I need to ... but my chains are laying 40,000+ miles.
I haven't lubed an Oring or Xring chain on a street bike in at least 15 years. No issue with wear. Cleaning the chain occasionally is all that is necessary. Chain lube just attracts dirt and causes this abrasive paste to work on the chain sprocket.
In the days I started riding in 1965 we had chains with clips that separated. I like many riders then, periodically took the chain off the bike, soaked it in parafin overnight to remove grime.Then heated grease in a pan and placed the clean chain in the pan of hot grease. Removed excess grease, replaced the chain and rode away. How many riders would do that today. Great video.
I'm curious how many even could. All the chains I've used had one time use master links. Doing all that work isn't really worthwhile. Even with negligent maintenance, my last chain lasted like 10k miles. Removing the chain and redoing the masterlink represents a net decrease in safety all to avoid having to replace a chain after thousands of miles.
If the main objective is o-ring integrity, shouldn't we just use a silicone based dry or wet lube ? Silicone is the go to for lubrication of o-rings in other fields
I bought a liter of chain saw oil years ago, haven't used half of it yet. It lubricates well, dirt doesn't stick to it much and if you don't apply too much it sticks to the chain well. I simply apply it with a finger.
Yep. Dish soap and a toothbrush in that pinch point he points out to remove old dirt. Hose off. Blow or sun dry. Toothbrush and chainsaw bar oil applied at that same pinch point as you rotate your wheel. Rub it on the side of the links last to avoid visible rust. Thats good nuff. Costs about 3c a treatment.
I keep telling the younger guys, gear oil & non O-ring chain is far more cost effective & lasts longer than any O-ring rubbish, they only developed the O-ring chain, as most riders are bone idle & not wanting to actually clean a chain properly, plus the crazy price on top for chain lube & crazy chain prices for a chain that is inferior to a no O-ring chain, as they can never be cleaned effectively nor lubed either... it's an industry rip off 100%.
I use a diesel-soaked rag to clean the chain, then wipe with a dry rag. Then apply MucOff dry lube onto the inside of the bottom rung of the chain, while turning the back wheel backwards. I paint the joining link of the chain bright red to make it easier to find and check and this also serves as a marker to ensure the entire chain is cleaned and lubed.
I never oil my chains and they last several years. Granted I live in the desert, but lubing them just creates a mess and a chain is a relatively inexpensive replacement item.
"we asked a man who makes and sells chain lube, do we need to use chain lube" something tells me that the answer would be yes. If he was selling a Banana as chain lube and you asked him if it was needed and you wanted to pay for it guess what his answer would be ?😁😁
The man who sells chain lube is telling the truth. It's not to lubricate the inside of the rollers on the chain(if they have O rings), it's to lubricate contact between the outside of the chain roller, side plates where it comes into contact with the sprocket.
Omg, FINALLY someone was able to explain what lubing an o-ring chain actually does. How does this video only have 3.2k views!? Also really appreciate that you guys actually reached out to experts and share their opinion was just adding more persona preference/noise to this darn topic. 10/10
Wax definitely has less fling but penetration is poor even when applied as you suggest. I use the sDoc white chain lube shown in this vid and it really is good with minimal fling. The sDoc chain cleaner is also the best I have tried from many brands. In fact, although expensive all of the sDoc products I have used impress massively no matter what they are compared against.
@@loggggonit goes on completely liquid tjen the wax dries and it has dry lubricants to lubricate. It keeps the chain cleaner then any other lube I have seen. But I don't believe it lubricates as well as a traditional style lube as the chain gets warmer with wax lube. But it doesn't attract gunk so you don't have the the dirt grinding In the chain. I believe it's a small trade off for easier maintenance, no fling and the reports I have seen show 25k out of a wax chain.
This test will still be gong ahead, but lockdown has caused a major delay in getting hold of some of the materials. Hit subscribe and you'll get a notification when it's complete. Cheers, John
Thanks John. I am subbed, so I get the alerts. Agree that Ryan did a great job, but just not comprehensive enough to cover the UK. It was interesting to see which "approved" cleaners managed to get past the o rings. I currently use Muc-off cleaner and Wurth Dry lube.
I have been using WD40 spray to clean the chains on my Street Triple and Speed Triple for over a year now.Spray on and wipe off.After every ride of over 50 miles.The chains are still looking very clean.Each bike has covered about 5000 miles.There is never any grit on the chains because there is no lube for it to stick to.Still not showing any obvious signs of wear.And when I spin the back wheel with the bike on the Abba stand it has that nice smooth buzz sound.This This cleaning method was advocated by Neevesy from MCN so I gave it a go.Takes about 5 minutes.
I've been riding for 40 years now. The chain on my Firestorm has just been changed along with sprockets of course. 32000 that chain had done. It had zero corrosion due to lots of lube. I spray the chain liberally then wrap a rag around it while turning the wheel by hand then repeat. The chain now looks good and ready to go. The other trick is don't have your chain too tight. Adjust the slack with you on board. Your chain will thank you for this.
@@kcdmine3635 Chain lubrication, not based on oil. Much better since it stays on the chain with a much cleaner looking wheel. Been using it for years with no issues.
@@Nanosoft017 Well Dry lube...the can on the shelf right now says S100 on it. But there are other brands. Once you start using dry lube you'll never look back.
I use maxima clean, lube, and wax After applying all of the above I can feel a difference as far as the movement of the chain itself. Makes so much difference
Tuturo chain oiler on my last 4 bikes. Simple to fit and use. It cleans as well as lubricates. 30,000 from a chain and I usually change before I have to because I don't want to be caught out mid trip. And that's on singles and twins, not smooth, non snatchy triples and fours. How about running an oiler against a well cleaned and manually lined chain?
I use the Cobrra Nemo 2 oiler, similar concept with 80W90 oil. I was considering the Tuturo but I got a good deal on the Nemo here in Switzerland. I agree with your sentiments, as my chain maintenance is now made much easier without all the sticky chain lube. Cleaning is quick and drys overnight and ready for lubing on the way the work.
One used to be able to easily remove the chain. It would then be cleaned. The appropriate chain grease would then be put into a pot, melted using Heat, ie. over a flame or hot plate. When the grease becomes hot and fluid, simply lay the chain into the molten grease allowing the grease to penatrate the inner workings of the chain. There were recommended amounts of time to leave the chain in the liquid grease. After this process the grease would be allowed to cool so that the chain could be safely taken out of the pot. A quick whipe over and the freshly lubed chain is ready for reinstallation.
I've used Maxima Chain wax for 25 years, since it came out I think. Stuck with it because it works but interested to see what's new and what works. My tip no matter what product - apply it immediately after a ride while chain is warm (say every 200 - 500kms or every opportunity if in rain) and use the lube to CLEAN the chain each time. After spraying it on use paper towels to clean off the grunge on all four sides, plates and rollers, and on the rear sprocket. Takes me 5-10 minutes. Enough will be left behind to creep everywhere and lube everything but you can give it another spray and wipe over if needed. Regular wiping over means the grunge never builds up and back wheel stays clean since there's little left to fling off. I do use a chain cleaner once or twice each year and ride about 5000km a year (and this is when I get into the front sprocket) but it's an easy job because you're cleaning a fairly clean chain. I ride in a spirited fashion and get 20-25000km out of chain and sprockets and although stretched to the max my chains still look shiny when I retire them.
Nearly 4000 kms on a zzr1200 two up fully loaded, around France, dry lube at the end of every day, is a high quality chain, didn't adjust it once and still no need to, nó grit stuck and no fling, rag and wd40 to clean, 12,000 kms and chain still good. Dry lube wax👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
arrrr us Brits can be sarcastic, but as long as we keep each other entertained with it😋👍 I do think that all experienced motorcyclist and every single motorcycle racer will tell you.... why the hell is anyone spraying their chain with any aerosol, chain lube or cleaner? Chains just need small smear of gear oil as per the chain mamanufacturesnstructions.
@@King-Arthur-The-First If its o-ring yes. Not all bikes use o-ring though and not using some kind of chain lube/oil in bigger quanteties than a smear will kill the chain within a matter of weeks.
Is doesn’t matter if x link chains trap grease in rings. If the surfaced the chain becomes rusty the surfaces will wear down the o or x rings allowing the grease to be washed away.
Dupont Teflon Multi works well for me (not Dupont Chainsaver which is oddly ineffective). Maxima Chain Wax is good. Easy to clean and lasts a very long time.
I'm using 80W90 gear oil for years. thin layer with brush every ~800km (maybe ~400km in wet conditions). Its very cheap and it works great. (*by the way it is what REGINA chain recommends on their chain maintenance manual. you can yourself on their site.) For me, It doesn't make ANY SENSE to spend extra money on chain maintenance on chain spray lube and cleaners. Chains are relatively cheap and easy to replace anyway, don't take it so seriously. IT IS JUST A FRICKING CHAIN.
A freakin' chain that can fail while you're going 80+ MPH on the freeway and now you're relegated to sippin' Big Mac's through a straw all because you don't see it as a big deal to maintain.
@@tonykartracer8032 I didn't say that chains shouldn't be maintained. I just say that you don't need to spend money in order to do so. It doesn't make sense to spend so much time and money on a cheap chain.
Thanks, probably one of the more intelligent discussions on motorcycle chain maintenance i've seen. My BMW GS recommends cleaning and lubing every 1000k. Been working for me!
@marcos.1771 lol!! 1000kilometers be about right to clean and lube chain. I do mine every 500miles! But yeh, k can mean 1000! I don't know the service intervals for the gs shaft, but 1000kilometers seems overkill! Doubt bike would do more than 300000miles! Maybe his bmw dealer is shafting him!😁
@@terrystratford1235 I have the M Endurance chain on my BMW S1000XR, which hardly needs service. The GS shaft does not get serviced, it gets replaced. A little while ago, BMW recalled just about every GS, because there was a huge issue with their shafts.
Maxima chain wax is extremely popular in the us for good reason . No fling , no rust and works the best. You guys should try to order one for the test .
Chainsaw and cutterbar oil I use on non "O" ring chain, on 110cc Honda cub with enclosed chain, excellent results. Applied with paint brush and occasionally use chain spray lube. 80,000 Km so far. Seems once the chain is 'run-in' (polished) then a steady state condition arises. Beautiful. Note: the full enclosure does act as a suction 'focus' around the sprokets though far preferable to an open chain for (in my case) postal delivery. Removing the top 1/2 of chaincase is speeded-up by replacing the two 10mm bolts with two screws.
I use kerosene with a brush to clean. Then 80w-90w gear lube. I clean the chain every 1500 miles and lube every 500 miles. Seems to work well. My V Strom has 59000 plus miles and only one chain replacement just recently.
@@spider121 I got tired of the "fling" from gear lube, I have been running chain wax since and I really like it. A lot less mess, and it's been holding up in the rain as well.
Gear lube, and be done with it. Cheaper than chain lube, and is actually what DID recommended on my new 520 O-ring chain, same recomendation by Honda on the bike's manual.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274319990313?epid=652688914&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3fdebede29:g:XZQAAOSw~HBefnBh&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkY3FSd4Ad8xn3oRtkVexxrKQuNfZ0NUK7P1qFxyQGTK9guZHnbT3V7bNjTpKtTFDpdPVvrWEDj3FwGsxYR36H9iebqlcjlbmNeWCErLuPPFl%252BzV3fpbCw4jKU6cnDSVBU06hVtoBZSrz0V4sNJbuXeq8YTUNKgOwBuDgnIyqgAshqg6E6qPavikbnBpoBPCvHGcDZJTb3kZDamrKQy6yMEbufsbc012E4hCoL990vFkKQ3bgPVUxfZbT5Yc%252BqqP7OkCZHKL8yohn5RtgAdfC3izCfbdZ5r8lymBNWC%252B8yH92ZvWbO2Eg4zuyvg2tp2LI9hC6FVgnTEQXgGOiK2mgI2JzbhGgUhZ%252FaCuxFXRYp6mdh6PtcxPznGPeNY0DlxrVtwD04OW1xT08j2c9O5pmqLMzYH6h%252FjePTUM3u%252FXC%252BoWXudxEGDsSGFFf%252Ba3BGn4%252BjaAIpk8rxKMliwMCH1zKJ37v1dTFuVBn63TI8N0I1ceU%252Fl2XxD8fXi7SWFoEDI8XbbXoHECzyF88e8q4igKwoTxVJGJFg9yEOMBiP7xaKwxngbIMVvDMWxjoI7crUV3n59IOiJXIAcLzjjKwdZOYrvHdiZROLHYDzpPJjqwL%252FGYIW2g%252B%252FGF9o%252BkTmk6HclnJG3N%252BQ4%252FG9NXdnTBtt4ILEDAlAnb6RhlMq0ip1NUjTlgOEP2YlvzNeVuMK0Y83IW9WTzPNckyFrNWkB%252BKwz%252FWoLZ3YYEXp%252FVgYc9qnsLdq7vTQQkXKjKxC4%252BHt0KSBdGkXGFPxZTNFJq7IojrzLBeyonEGDBUj2Ji2Ovt9uK3bjhM%253D%7Ccksum%3A27431999031318414f6cc3034c8b92e86ff5f053755c%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524 this stuff okay?
I always use Paraffin/Kerosene for cleaning & Gear Oil EP 80W90 for Lubing.... Done it for quite a while now and I get great longevity from my DriveChain. It states both these products in my Haynes Workshop Manual or Indeed it says alternatively use a Proprietory Brand of Chain Cleaner and Chain Lube suitable for 'O' and 'X' ring Drivechains. (Never use Gasoline to clean, as it will damage the seals and ruin the chain)
I did a French tour a while back with a big kwack, I had a mini aerosol chain lube which I did most days. We had terrible weather, rain, heavy or torrential! At the port in France on the way back after passing control I rode around to the embarkation area, I thought I was being followed by a Panzer tank! Bought a scottoiler mini, I now adjust the chain once a year, which includes a European jolly of 1500 miles or so every year.
@@mickeymouse4897 on a 1500 mile European jolly with poor weather, non o ring oiled on departure would have been dry day two, eight days with no lube! no, chain oiler on big power bikes is the only way ✊
@@rockintigger I've got better things to do at the weekend. That said, it's a small price to pay for hardly ever needing to adjust my chain. If the Scottoiler is adjusted correctly there's not much "throw off" onto the back end. Flow needs to be adjusted seasonally due to ambient temperature.
My bike has an undersized chain (520). So it tends to stretch. I noticed decades ago that some NON O-RING racing chains had higher load specifications. So I switched to those types of chains and have not had a problem with stretch. So now my question is, are non o-ring racing chains internally greased, or do they rely on the chain lube penetrating? I used a whale oil based chain lube for years that did not fling off. When whaling was outlawed. I switched to a lube with Moly in it. I'd like your thoughts on that...
I use paraffin, some old clean hand towels and a toothbrush for cleaning the chain ... always brings it up like new. Then I use Wurth HP Dry lube and a ChainMate for lubing duties. Lube after each couple of rides and give it a full clean once every 300/400 miles or so.
Tried gear oil for a while, great in dry weather, but would wash off when bike was left out in the rain leaving me to run the chain dry. Changed to a rock oil spray, been good so far feels very tacky though. Will be interested to see how it copes nearer the winter months. My commute is a 50+ round trip and use the bike in all but extreme weather. Having chewed up 2 chains in 18 month anything that helps prolong the life would be of great interest. Looking forward to the results!
For me I use graphite bloc (dry lubricant) the chain passing non stop on the bloc avoiding à compound made of grit dust and sand abrasiv for the chain and it works well
Have been round and round this one for decades. Today I use plain old WD40 on all the bikes with chains - not the expensive WD40 bike product stuff, just plain old WD off of Amazon. As an overall experience it's superb, especially as it makes cleaning the sprocket and the rear wheel an absolute doddle
I clean mine with diesel, and use old engine oil as a lube. I have a Scott oiler that uses old engine oil. My chain on my zzr14 is over 25k miles old and still good. I believe that keeping the chain clean is as important as lube.
So factory grease is trapped inside the rings and stays there for the life of the chain. That’s also where the friction surfaces of the chain are. We don’t want anything to pass those seals. So what I don’t get is why do we want to lube the outside of the chain?? There no friction surfaces there so nothing to lubricate. And I don’t believe the lube lasts at the roller/sprocket interface long at all so is useless there...hence having a roller and not stiff bar for the sprockets to mesh with.
I am of the opinion that there is no way any oil can lubricate the contact between sprocket teeth and chain rollers.Only an oilbath chaincase would make a difference.That's why we are told to lubricate the edge of the links.And it is purely to stop the chain going rusty.And it is OK to clean the chain with WD40....it does not affect the O or X rings.EP 80-90 Gear Oil was tested against 9 other chainlubes on another TH-cam video and came out in 2nd place.A bloke I know destroyed a chain in less than 2000 miles....by pulling wheelies every 5 minutes!
I did reference Fort9's video of chain lube tests, and I soaked O-rings in several cleaners (including WD-40) for over a year. No, WD won't damage a chain's O-ring, but it is a penetrant, which could help wash away the grease that comes packed in the chain. We'll be testing everything possible in the cleaner and lube test that's coming up... John
What about chain cleaners though (I don't think Ryan F9's chain cleaner experiment was sufficiently scientific - what's the likelihood that balloons have exactly the same chemical composition as chain seals)? I think using Motul chain cleaner might have caused me some problems but can't be sure of what's caused one of my o-rings to split. After watching this it could also be that my alignment is very marginally 'off', or it could be something else entirely.
I'm building the chain cleaners test at the moment; it will be a way off, but it'll look at O-ring compatibility (as well as the plastics used on chain guards). Cheers, John
@@bennettsbikesocial I would be curious to this as well since RyanF9 tested that Parrafin (Kerosene for the U.S.) would creep through the o-rings and essentially wash out the grease, but it is generally the most recommended chain cleaner from bike manufactures in the owners manual.
Just use standard gear oil (most of the time gear oil is mentioned in your hand book) stop buying chain lube.....Looking forward to seeing the results of your tests.
@@bennettsbikesocial Yea but wait until his shaft gives him the shaft! and to make matters worse the dealer might be closed down.... now what is he going to do! I tell you what, he will sell the bugger!
I ride old Eastern European two strokes, I have an MZ, CZ and a Russian Voskhod. They all have fully enclosed chains, all of them are very well engineered chain cases especially the Voskhod. They are all western chains and are non o ring and they all look as clean and perfect as the day they were put on, the CZ chain for example has been on since 1989 and has covered around 40000 miles. It has only ever been lubricated with ep90 gear oil , a little squirt maybe 4 times a year. I’m sure this is completely down to the chain cases keeping them clean. I never clean them just lube them and they rarely need adjustment.
I used Wurth dry chain lube before I went shaft drive - it’s a leap of faith as you can not see it so you just have to believe it’s there doing it’s job. What I did (which initially was a faff I’ll admit) was clean off all the grease I could from the chain as soon as I bought the bike (Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport) using a chain cleaner and then painted the side plates with metal lacquer to protect them from corrosion, sprayed on the dry lube and continued to do so every fuel fill up for the next 12,000 miles until I sold the bike with the chain and sprockets still like new. The chain stayed clean, no “fling” on the back wheel, no corrosion and it only ever needed adjusted at tyre change time. Grease and wax just attract grit and make a grinding paste so you end up in an endless cycle of cleaning, lubing, cleaning, lubing. It worked for me anyway.
If I clean and lube the chain religiously, how much more chain life would I get? 30% more? 50% more? And how much money would I have spent on chain products? More than the price of a new chain I guess... I quitted cleaning my chain. I just nonchalantly lube it with motor oil. Jerry-rigged a plastic extension at the end of my chain guard to keep oil splash in check.
Chain definitely need cleaning and lubrication. Personal anecdote: me and one of my buddies got the same bike within a few weeks distance, both new. He didn’t care about his chain, I cleaned and lubed mine every 500-1000km. He needed to change his chain by 15000km, mine is at 33000 and still has a lot of life in it.
I think it should really be called sprocket lube. Apart from preventing rust and stopping the seals drying out, the lube doesn't do much. When the roller touches the sprocket it stops moving and it's the greased part of the chain (inside) that does the moving. The lube on a chain just helps with that initial contact with the sprocket. I've not done any testing but I imagine the benefit of lube is going to be sprocket wear prevention rather than chain wear.
TBH, I'm somewhat skeptical that it's worth the effort. It may depend a bit on the bike, but I got about 10k miles with basically no maintenance on my last chain and the sprockets were still good enough to not require replacing at that time. I ride all year round and it's rather wet here and it just seems like the benefit from this stuff is just not there. While I am spending more money on sprockets and chains than I would be if I regularly cleaned and lubed my chain, chains are not very expensive, I recently picked up a chain/sprocket set for only like $90 whereas the last time I bothered to pick up the gear to clean and lube, it was a substantial fraction of the replacement gear.
retired from motos to race MTB Downhill and I use to use Chainsaw oil on my MTB, it attracts way to much dirt....Now I'm using a Lithium spray but it goes quick. going to use gear oil like I did on my motos.
The cost of the chain lube isn’t cost effective compared with replacing a chain Yes this lube does work but your better of using wd40 and cleaning your chain properly and replacing it more often rather than spending £30 on 2 cans of this stuff 🤷♂️ A good chain can be had for £50 now Makes even less sense if your riding off road machinery
Yes, but it's not just for wear. As discussed, It's also to keep the 'O' rings (Or 'X' or whatever) soft so they retain the grease as well as to reduce wear on the sprockets, help with smooth gear changes, reduce noise etc. And in doing all of that it reduces friction so increases power transmission.
Why not go further. Don't bother with fork and shock oil refreshes, engine oil and filter changes. And hey, why bother washing the bike either? All of these will save you money, just change the bike instead.
@@raydavison2972 That's a bit different. Swapping sprockets and chain isn't that hard. I'm terrible about chain maintenance and I still get years out of a decent set. There's a certain point where the expense makes no sense whatsoever. Those other things are either a pain to repair the damage from or can result in extremely expensive damage to the bike. In terms of the chain, as long as you maintain the slack and pay attention to the wear on the chain/sprockets, there isn't much harm done to anything else. By the GP's numbers, you'd have to be going through a new chain/sprocket set ever like 6 months before you get anywhere near the point of braking even. What's more, there's an environmental impact that comes from this stuff washing off.
My chain is sticky and greasy after I start spraying it.. before that it was great. Now I try to find how to clean it perfectly and never lube it again. Bike is Aprila Rsv4
What are the numbers on replacing chains and buying lube? I really have no idea, but replacing a chain is not like overhauling the motor or something. And chain lube is not cheap. So perhaps not lubricating and just buying a new chain is cheaper? Who can tell me this?
Been cleaning my chain with kerosene for years. Then I wipe away the residue and lube it with Wurth dry lube. Keeps chain in A1 condition and zero fling on my back wheel .
I tried S100 lube out of curiostity, and it was the best lube i have tried in 30 years. I ride 10% gravel roads, and wondered why my chains wore out so quickly. The reason was called: Maxima
This is probably the most sensible video I've seen till now. Talking about what should be talked. My owners manual specifies to use a sae 90w oil. That's it. Iam considering to use a 140 oil. Would highly appreciate your opinion on that. The bike is a ninja 650. Thanks
I've been saying for years, why dont they design bikes with enclosed chains with an inspection flap, they could make them look like a shaft drive system in bet. Here in the uk with our heavy rainfall, it would make sense and maybe our chains would last a lot longer. Maybe the manufacturers wouldn't like this though and that's why it's not happening.
Nicely covered as far as it goes but….. no one seems to mention the wear that must be caused by the mix of road grime and sticky lubricant on the rollers, effectively making a grinding paste between the roller and sprocket.
back in the 1950s on the farm where machine chains ran in dirty dusty environments. NO lube. The chains and sprokets ran the longest with least wear. we did not let the chains out in the weather to rust. my suzuki dr200 the factory manual tell us to NOT put lube on the chain. I keep my motorcycle in the garage when not in use. no problems with chain or sprocket wear. what these guys do not understand that dirt and grease make a grinding compound.
When i get a bike i fit a new high quality chain/sprockets (Renthal/DID), clean the chain twice a week or after a wet ride with WD40, then spray with GT85, wipe off the excess, no sticky mess and the gold chain stays looking great. I'm a bit OCD though.
I always clean my chain thoroughly before lubing with EP 90 gear oil and then wiping off excess. With dry weather riding I do that every 500 miles - wet weather more frequently. Any other method will turn your chain lube into grinding paste - Been doing this for at least 40 years now - All chains wear out in the end but my GSXR 1100 back in the 90's, drive chain lasted 23000 miles before I had to replace it and I used to to ride it extremely hard. I bought My 2005 Z1000 new and still have it - and it still has its original chain, although I'm only a fair weather rider now as I'm getting on in years. The only time I have ever used spray on chain lube in the past, was when European touring and then I had a very large can of industrial chain lube (much cheaper) - and then washed it all off when I go back home.
I made my own oiler with a plastic bottle filled with W90 oil, some plastic tubing and a gas pump from a chainsaw parts shop. A few pumps when the chain becomes visibly dry and I'm good for another 200km or so
That's what's stated on japanese motorcycle manufactures service manuals. We must give credit to them. Japanes engineers know what they're doing. Honda alone has more than 800 motorcycle Grand Prix wins. Just an example (not from Honda): "If a special lubricant is not available, a heavy oil such as SAE 90 is preferred to a lighter oil because it will stay on the chain longer and provide better lubrication." On road bikes, the only downside compared to comercial spray lubricants is more rear wheel fling
Chain alignment or wheel alignment, which is more important? They are not the same and both are important and will be the same if the frame, swinging arm and engine mounts are all perfectly aligned but they never will be even from the factory.
Good question, and that's why keeping the O-rings well lubricated is important; personally, I'd align by the wheels (I use two straight-edges when I want it bang-on). John
what material are the seals made from. the cleaner/lubricator must also preserve the seals. but also this chemical should resist water. my best guess is a silicone spray or silicone brake fluid.
My two cents (yes I'm cheap), I use 80/90w gear oil mixed with a a very small amount graphite on a hot chain it's so cheap I have to relube more often (350km) more so in rain obviously as always. It removes contaminants from the chain as it eventually flys off because of the detergents in it. Grime just wipes off easily with rag.
In winter I use IPONE chain lube, and for summer I'm using Renthal Chain lube (oil). The two are not sticky for dirt, and preserves very well the chain!
the longest lasting chain, that I've had on a bike, was a 428 on a 1979 CZ 250-471.4 , which lasted just over 15,000 miles. I never used chain lube, instead relying on the inbuild total loss drive chain oiling system & fully enclosed oil bath that the bike had as OEM. The 428 chain only had to deal with 17 HP & 28.5 Pounds/Foot of torque though. When it came to replacing the chain the fully enclosed chain guard with oil bath made it a messy job, so I ran without it. The hot gear box oil drip feed, through the output sprocket shaft centre, still functioned, giving the exposed chain a service life of 7,000 to 8,000 miles. The system loses 1 drip of gearbox oil per 2 or 3 miles, which also lubricates the automatic clutch actuator, before ending up on the primary sprocket and being spun out into the chain. The owners manual recommends topping th gearbox oil up very 1,000 miles. The only fault with it is when the tiny O ring metering washer wears out and the the drive chain is over lubricated, flinging a lot about the right side of the tyre (it costs 2p to replace).
My Royal Enfield 1986 has this system. It's called prether or something. Mine has 18 bhp and its a 350 cc long strong engine. Chain lasted for a long time that I was so amazed that my friend changed his chain for his new bike..
I tried gear oil for the first time. I am never buying chain lube again. Sure, it flings a bit from start. But what it also flings off is dirt and gravel. And the chain looks like new, is dead quiet and it stays this way for quite some time. The gear oil is also dirt cheap.
Soaked my new chain in heated up grease overnight. Had a Scottoiler on it, rode the bike (a pre power restriction CB125TC) with mechanical sympathy. The chain lasted just under two years. Admittedly only about 50-80 miles a week though but still, that's a long life for a chain. I really miss that bike. Was faster than a mate of mines CB250.
I clean regularly with WD40, then use a a good quality engine oil in a soaked rag then wipe off the excess so not to have a mess. Engine oil has to maintain a film between the most extreme place in the engine the big end bearings, so maintain a film on a chain with quality engine oil is no a problem, also has detergent in the oil so when wiping off the excess it polishes the outer chain after cleaning and re oiling. Down side takes more time and too much oil makes a mess, I used wax lube but it goes hard and is tough to clean, if I use spray I used Motul road and track that seems to be the best for me. Bikes Ducati 1299, 1199, 749, Scrambler and Desert sled used on tracks and road and I don’t have wear problems.
Chain lube is ok for road bikes , but no good for dirt bikes. Our group stoped using chain lube and we have doubled the life of our chain and sprockets. I clean the chain after every ride with degreaser or bike cleaner. Then spin out the water. Spray with WD40 or Inox. 100 percent doubles the life. The chain lube attracts dust dirt and mud and and turns it into a grinding paste which increases wear.
30 year daily rider here: Nothing works like a ScottOiler. The slow but continuous flow on the chain with oil cleans it and helps it last a long time. I use the cheapest two stroke engine oil I can find to fill it, and wash the drive and wheel down with Simple Green and a hose about every other month. Thats all thats needed. It just works. My current bike is a 98 bought new that now has 120k miles on it. I put a ScottOiler on it in 99, and its been there ever since, and still works. Done.
The chain lubes test is finally complete - you can watch it here: th-cam.com/video/noshjM5CDas/w-d-xo.html Thanks for your patience, John
I would very much like to hear others' opinions on my controversial belief.
I have had a theory for 50 years. I think a never-cleaned and never lubricated chain and sprockets may last just as long as those that are serviced. At least in the Bay Area of CA, where I live, where we have no road salt and mild conditions. Modern chains are greased internally behind rubber O-rings. As for the outside of the chain, I wonder if lubing it just attracts more grit and turns it into sandpaper?
So, I am finally running an experiment. I put a new DID chain on my KTM 390 Adventure and am riding it with no maintenance whatsoever. So far, I have 4,000 miles on it, 50%/50% on/off road in CA, NM, AZ, and UT. So far, everything looks fine. If I can get 10,000+ miles without ever looking at it, and without carrying supplies, and with having no mess, I am more than happy and feel I am way ahead.
Clean it now and put lube on it and you'll even notice how smoother the ride is and your theory would be over
i clean my chain with parrafin, wipe dry, then apply 80/90 gearbox oil, then wipe off excess, as advised in the owners manual. if anyone is familiar with ryan F9, he did a test and came to the same conclusion
Yeah, FortNine Does Two Of The Best Videos On Chain Cleaning & Lubrication. I Use Kerosene To Clean & Gear Oil To Lubricate. Thank You.
But parrafin destroys the rubber seals in the links they say?
80W90 gear oil applied to warm chain. There is no point trying to layer it on because it will fling off. Just apply half a tea spoon of oil with a narrow paint brush and wipe away any excess to leave a micro layer that stays put with no noticeable fling. Need to apply it more frequently than chain gloop though but it does only takes 2 minutes with no mess. Cheap too!
Scott Oiler
BobbyBlueAce that’s what I do 👍 especially easy on a bike with a centre stand
true, it was recommended by yamaha in my manual way back in 1994.
That's what I do. I do after every ride. Whether 100 miles or 700 miles. A bit of fling .... I'm sure I put more on than I need to ... but my chains are laying 40,000+ miles.
Lubrication and penetration. It makes the world go round. Not just the chain.
😂😂😂
I Live my life by lubes and penetrants!
Don't forget the mint jelly!
Winner
Just hawk tuah on that thang ! 😮😂😂😂😮
I haven't lubed an Oring or Xring chain on a street bike in at least 15 years. No issue with wear. Cleaning the chain occasionally is all that is necessary. Chain lube just attracts dirt and causes this abrasive paste to work on the chain sprocket.
How do you clean it mate?
In the days I started riding in 1965 we had chains with clips that separated. I like many riders then, periodically took the chain off the bike, soaked it in parafin overnight to remove grime.Then heated grease in a pan and placed the clean chain in the pan of hot grease. Removed excess grease, replaced the chain and rode away. How many riders would do that today. Great video.
I have to admit that I'm so geeky I probably would! John
I'm curious how many even could. All the chains I've used had one time use master links. Doing all that work isn't really worthwhile. Even with negligent maintenance, my last chain lasted like 10k miles. Removing the chain and redoing the masterlink represents a net decrease in safety all to avoid having to replace a chain after thousands of miles.
Damn your old..
@@michaelsteven1090 yeh! But I'm still riding a high powered bike and enjoying every minute.
Me. It's the best way.
If the main objective is o-ring integrity, shouldn't we just use a silicone based dry or wet lube ? Silicone is the go to for lubrication of o-rings in other fields
After 30+ years of riding I’ve only recently changed over to using gear oil instead of chain lube. Oil is so much better.
I bought a liter of chain saw oil years ago, haven't used half of it yet. It lubricates well, dirt doesn't stick to it much and if you don't apply too much it sticks to the chain well. I simply apply it with a finger.
@@PrimoStracciatella Cheapest and best.
I use the oil which comes with the Scottoiler. The thicker the grease, the more muck sticks like a grinding paste. Light oil shrugs it off.
Yep.
Dish soap and a toothbrush in that pinch point he points out to remove old dirt.
Hose off.
Blow or sun dry.
Toothbrush and chainsaw bar oil applied at that same pinch point as you rotate your wheel. Rub it on the side of the links last to avoid visible rust.
Thats good nuff. Costs about 3c a treatment.
I keep telling the younger guys, gear oil & non O-ring chain is far more cost effective & lasts longer than any O-ring rubbish, they only developed the O-ring chain, as most riders are bone idle & not wanting to actually clean a chain properly, plus the crazy price on top for chain lube & crazy chain prices for a chain that is inferior to a no O-ring chain, as they can never be cleaned effectively nor lubed either... it's an industry rip off 100%.
gear oil 85/90 cheap and effective
that's exactly what you need!
@@christiannoble5549 I've been using a slightly thicker oil for less fling 75w140
@@marcpilon9189 but some of us like a little fling ;)
Been using it since 1984 always got good mileage out of my chains never had any problems
If you read the bike handbook, this is exactly what is recommended. 😀👍
I use a diesel-soaked rag to clean the chain, then wipe with a dry rag. Then apply MucOff dry lube onto the inside of the bottom rung of the chain, while turning the back wheel backwards. I paint the joining link of the chain bright red to make it easier to find and check and this also serves as a marker to ensure the entire chain is cleaned and lubed.
Thanks for your tips, mate 😁
But diesel is no good for the orings...
I never oil my chains and they last several years. Granted I live in the desert, but lubing them just creates a mess and a chain is a relatively inexpensive replacement item.
"we asked a man who makes and sells chain lube, do we need to use chain lube" something tells me that the answer would be yes. If he was selling a Banana as chain lube and you asked him if it was needed and you wanted to pay for it guess what his answer would be ?😁😁
Yeah kinda stupid
True
A banana might work well
The man who sells chain lube is telling the truth. It's not to lubricate the inside of the rollers on the chain(if they have O rings), it's to lubricate contact between the outside of the chain roller, side plates where it comes into contact with the sprocket.
6:44
Omg, FINALLY someone was able to explain what lubing an o-ring chain actually does. How does this video only have 3.2k views!? Also really appreciate that you guys actually reached out to experts and share their opinion was just adding more persona preference/noise to this darn topic. 10/10
Thanks! Cheers, John
Chain saw bar oil works great. It's sticky and stays on pretty well and it's cheap.
I prefer a wax over a typical liquid lube. Far less flinging when applied properly. Warm up the chain first. Apply wax. Allow to set up. Ride!
Wax definitely has less fling but penetration is poor even when applied as you suggest. I use the sDoc white chain lube shown in this vid and it really is good with minimal fling. The sDoc chain cleaner is also the best I have tried from many brands. In fact, although expensive all of the sDoc products I have used impress massively no matter what they are compared against.
Crap sticks to wax
@@loggggonit goes on completely liquid tjen the wax dries and it has dry lubricants to lubricate. It keeps the chain cleaner then any other lube I have seen. But I don't believe it lubricates as well as a traditional style lube as the chain gets warmer with wax lube. But it doesn't attract gunk so you don't have the the dirt grinding In the chain. I believe it's a small trade off for easier maintenance, no fling and the reports I have seen show 25k out of a wax chain.
This test will still be gong ahead, but lockdown has caused a major delay in getting hold of some of the materials. Hit subscribe and you'll get a notification when it's complete. Cheers, John
Thanks John. I am subbed, so I get the alerts. Agree that Ryan did a great job, but just not comprehensive enough to cover the UK. It was interesting to see which "approved" cleaners managed to get past the o rings. I currently use Muc-off cleaner and Wurth Dry lube.
I hate doing chain cleaning, so I designed a new tool: ChainBath. th-cam.com/video/UrkhRe8gQPI/w-d-xo.html
still waiting for the test.
@@avsolanki94 It'll be worth it...
Still waiting, would be super interesting.. come on guys!!!
I have been using WD40 spray to clean the chains on my Street Triple and Speed Triple for over a year now.Spray on and wipe off.After every ride of over 50 miles.The chains are still looking very clean.Each bike has covered about 5000 miles.There is never any grit on the chains because there is no lube for it to stick to.Still not showing any obvious signs of wear.And when I spin the back wheel with the bike on the Abba stand it has that nice smooth buzz sound.This This cleaning method was advocated by Neevesy from MCN so I gave it a go.Takes about 5 minutes.
I've been riding for 40 years now. The chain on my Firestorm has just been changed along with sprockets of course. 32000 that chain had done. It had zero corrosion due to lots of lube. I spray the chain liberally then wrap a rag around it while turning the wheel by hand then repeat. The chain now looks good and ready to go. The other trick is don't have your chain too tight. Adjust the slack with you on board. Your chain will thank you for this.
Dry lube for me! Used it for years and the chain looks fine after 35-40 000km. And no dirt on the wheel!
what are dry lubes?
@@kcdmine3635 Chain lubrication, not based on oil. Much better since it stays on the chain with a much cleaner looking wheel. Been using it for years with no issues.
@@johnDukemaster what are you using mate?
@@Nanosoft017 Well Dry lube...the can on the shelf right now says S100 on it. But there are other brands. Once you start using dry lube you'll never look back.
I use maxima clean, lube, and wax
After applying all of the above I can feel a difference as far as the movement of the chain itself. Makes so much difference
I second that comment.
Tuturo chain oiler on my last 4 bikes. Simple to fit and use. It cleans as well as lubricates.
30,000 from a chain and I usually change before I have to because I don't want to be caught out mid trip. And that's on singles and twins, not smooth, non snatchy triples and fours.
How about running an oiler against a well cleaned and manually lined chain?
I have one on both my bikes, it's made the drive chain almost maintenance free!
I use the Cobrra Nemo 2 oiler, similar concept with 80W90 oil. I was considering the Tuturo but I got a good deal on the Nemo here in Switzerland. I agree with your sentiments, as my chain maintenance is now made much easier without all the sticky chain lube. Cleaning is quick and drys overnight and ready for lubing on the way the work.
One used to be able to easily remove the chain. It would then be cleaned.
The appropriate chain grease would then be put into a pot, melted using Heat, ie. over a flame or hot plate.
When the grease becomes hot and fluid, simply lay the chain into the molten grease allowing the grease to penatrate the inner workings of the chain.
There were recommended amounts of time to leave the chain in the liquid grease.
After this process the grease would be allowed to cool so that the chain could be safely taken out of the pot.
A quick whipe over and the freshly lubed chain is ready for reinstallation.
I remember that can't remember the name
Scottoiler type continuous lubrication with anything makes you ride carefree till your front sprocket allows (up to 40kkm in my case)
Hmmmm... interesting!.
I've used Maxima Chain wax for 25 years, since it came out I think. Stuck with it because it works but interested to see what's new and what works. My tip no matter what product - apply it immediately after a ride while chain is warm (say every 200 - 500kms or every opportunity if in rain) and use the lube to CLEAN the chain each time. After spraying it on use paper towels to clean off the grunge on all four sides, plates and rollers, and on the rear sprocket. Takes me 5-10 minutes. Enough will be left behind to creep everywhere and lube everything but you can give it another spray and wipe over if needed. Regular wiping over means the grunge never builds up and back wheel stays clean since there's little left to fling off. I do use a chain cleaner once or twice each year and ride about 5000km a year (and this is when I get into the front sprocket) but it's an easy job because you're cleaning a fairly clean chain. I ride in a spirited fashion and get 20-25000km out of chain and sprockets and although stretched to the max my chains still look shiny when I retire them.
Nearly 4000 kms on a zzr1200 two up fully loaded, around France, dry lube at the end of every day, is a high quality chain, didn't adjust it once and still no need to, nó grit stuck and no fling, rag and wd40 to clean, 12,000 kms and chain still good. Dry lube wax👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Ah, at last, I've long had a theory that lube was lubing the roller\ sprocket contact point- thanks for confirming it.
arrrr us Brits can be sarcastic, but as long as we keep each other entertained with it😋👍
I do think that all experienced motorcyclist and every single motorcycle racer will tell you....
why the hell is anyone spraying their chain with any aerosol, chain lube or cleaner?
Chains just need small smear of gear oil as per the chain mamanufacturesnstructions.
@@King-Arthur-The-First If its o-ring yes. Not all bikes use o-ring though and not using some kind of chain lube/oil in bigger quanteties than a smear will kill the chain within a matter of weeks.
Is doesn’t matter if x link chains trap grease in rings. If the surfaced the chain becomes rusty the surfaces will wear down the o or x rings allowing the grease to be washed away.
That corrosion protection is a key part of the huge test I'm working on at the moment. Cheers, John
obsession about greasing chain, but what makes hard points and elongation is torque peak which deforms the inside rollers...
Dupont Teflon Multi works well for me (not Dupont Chainsaver which is oddly ineffective). Maxima Chain Wax is good. Easy to clean and lasts a very long time.
Maxima chain wax has served me well on multiple bikes and 10s of thousands km. I'll never use a lube that flings off everywhere again
I'm using 80W90 gear oil for years. thin layer with brush every ~800km (maybe ~400km in wet conditions). Its very cheap and it works great. (*by the way it is what REGINA chain recommends on their chain maintenance manual. you can yourself on their site.)
For me, It doesn't make ANY SENSE to spend extra money on chain maintenance on chain spray lube and cleaners. Chains are relatively cheap and easy to replace anyway, don't take it so seriously. IT IS JUST A FRICKING CHAIN.
80W90 is on the list...
A freakin' chain that can fail while you're going 80+ MPH on the freeway and now you're relegated to sippin' Big Mac's through a straw all because you don't see it as a big deal to maintain.
@@tonykartracer8032
I didn't say that chains shouldn't be maintained. I just say that you don't need to spend money in order to do so.
It doesn't make sense to spend so much time and money on a cheap chain.
Thanks, probably one of the more intelligent discussions on motorcycle chain maintenance i've seen. My BMW GS recommends cleaning and lubing every 1000k. Been working for me!
1000k as in one million?
@marcos.1771 me thinks he joking......gs is shaft drive😂
@@terrystratford1235 Yes, I know the GS does not use a drive chain, but it's that 1000k that puzzled me.
@marcos.1771 lol!! 1000kilometers be about right to clean and lube chain. I do mine every 500miles! But yeh, k can mean 1000! I don't know the service intervals for the gs shaft, but 1000kilometers seems overkill! Doubt bike would do more than 300000miles! Maybe his bmw dealer is shafting him!😁
@@terrystratford1235 I have the M Endurance chain on my BMW S1000XR, which hardly needs service.
The GS shaft does not get serviced, it gets replaced.
A little while ago, BMW recalled just about every GS, because there was a huge issue with their shafts.
Lube - Dupont Teflon Chain Saver
Cleaner - Dupont Chain and Sprocket Degreaser
Thanks - on the list
If you have an MT10 with yellow wheels you clean, lube and then wipe the chain with a cloth so there is little left to fling.
Maxima chain wax is extremely popular in the us for good reason . No fling , no rust and works the best. You guys should try to order one for the test .
Already on the list - thanks!
@@bennettsbikesocial any update on this?
Chainsaw and cutterbar oil I use on non "O" ring chain, on 110cc Honda cub with enclosed chain, excellent results. Applied with paint brush and occasionally use chain spray lube. 80,000 Km so far. Seems once the chain is 'run-in' (polished) then a steady state condition arises. Beautiful. Note: the full enclosure does act as a suction 'focus' around the sprokets though far preferable to an open chain for (in my case) postal delivery. Removing the top 1/2 of chaincase is speeded-up by replacing the two 10mm bolts with two screws.
I use kerosene with a brush to clean. Then 80w-90w gear lube. I clean the chain every 1500 miles and lube every 500 miles. Seems to work well. My V Strom has 59000 plus miles and only one chain replacement just recently.
After lubing, do you wipe it off with a rag to prevent fling?
@@spider121 I got tired of the "fling" from gear lube, I have been running chain wax since and I really like it. A lot less mess, and it's been holding up in the rain as well.
Gear lube, and be done with it. Cheaper than chain lube, and is actually what DID recommended on my new 520 O-ring chain, same recomendation by Honda on the bike's manual.
www.ebay.co.uk/itm/274319990313?epid=652688914&_trkparms=ispr%3D1&hash=item3fdebede29:g:XZQAAOSw~HBefnBh&amdata=enc%3AAQAFAAACgBaobrjLl8XobRIiIML1V4Imu%252Fn%252BzU5L90Z278x5ickkY3FSd4Ad8xn3oRtkVexxrKQuNfZ0NUK7P1qFxyQGTK9guZHnbT3V7bNjTpKtTFDpdPVvrWEDj3FwGsxYR36H9iebqlcjlbmNeWCErLuPPFl%252BzV3fpbCw4jKU6cnDSVBU06hVtoBZSrz0V4sNJbuXeq8YTUNKgOwBuDgnIyqgAshqg6E6qPavikbnBpoBPCvHGcDZJTb3kZDamrKQy6yMEbufsbc012E4hCoL990vFkKQ3bgPVUxfZbT5Yc%252BqqP7OkCZHKL8yohn5RtgAdfC3izCfbdZ5r8lymBNWC%252B8yH92ZvWbO2Eg4zuyvg2tp2LI9hC6FVgnTEQXgGOiK2mgI2JzbhGgUhZ%252FaCuxFXRYp6mdh6PtcxPznGPeNY0DlxrVtwD04OW1xT08j2c9O5pmqLMzYH6h%252FjePTUM3u%252FXC%252BoWXudxEGDsSGFFf%252Ba3BGn4%252BjaAIpk8rxKMliwMCH1zKJ37v1dTFuVBn63TI8N0I1ceU%252Fl2XxD8fXi7SWFoEDI8XbbXoHECzyF88e8q4igKwoTxVJGJFg9yEOMBiP7xaKwxngbIMVvDMWxjoI7crUV3n59IOiJXIAcLzjjKwdZOYrvHdiZROLHYDzpPJjqwL%252FGYIW2g%252B%252FGF9o%252BkTmk6HclnJG3N%252BQ4%252FG9NXdnTBtt4ILEDAlAnb6RhlMq0ip1NUjTlgOEP2YlvzNeVuMK0Y83IW9WTzPNckyFrNWkB%252BKwz%252FWoLZ3YYEXp%252FVgYc9qnsLdq7vTQQkXKjKxC4%252BHt0KSBdGkXGFPxZTNFJq7IojrzLBeyonEGDBUj2Ji2Ovt9uK3bjhM%253D%7Ccksum%3A27431999031318414f6cc3034c8b92e86ff5f053755c%7Campid%3APL_CLK%7Cclp%3A2334524 this stuff okay?
Same with my 2006 kx450f owner's manual.
I always use Paraffin/Kerosene for cleaning & Gear Oil EP 80W90 for Lubing.... Done it for quite a while now and I get great longevity from my DriveChain. It states both these products in my Haynes Workshop Manual or Indeed it says alternatively use a Proprietory Brand of Chain Cleaner and Chain Lube suitable for 'O' and 'X' ring Drivechains. (Never use Gasoline to clean, as it will damage the seals and ruin the chain)
I did a French tour a while back with a big kwack, I had a mini aerosol chain lube which I did most days. We had terrible weather, rain, heavy or torrential! At the port in France on the way back after passing control I rode around to the embarkation area, I thought I was being followed by a Panzer tank! Bought a scottoiler mini, I now adjust the chain once a year, which includes a European jolly of 1500 miles or so every year.
A non O-ring chain lubricated in gear oil would not have failed on u ... enough said
@@mickeymouse4897 on a 1500 mile European jolly with poor weather, non o ring oiled on departure would have been dry day two, eight days with no lube! no, chain oiler on big power bikes is the only way ✊
I'll just continue with my Scottoiler thankyou.
Yeah an degrease the back of your bike every weekend 😒
@@rockintigger I've got better things to do at the weekend. That said, it's a small price to pay for hardly ever needing to adjust my chain. If the Scottoiler is adjusted correctly there's not much "throw off" onto the back end. Flow needs to be adjusted seasonally due to ambient temperature.
My bike has an undersized chain (520). So it tends to stretch. I noticed decades ago that some NON O-RING racing chains had higher load specifications. So I switched to those types of chains and have not had a problem with stretch. So now my question is, are non o-ring racing chains internally greased, or do they rely on the chain lube penetrating? I used a whale oil based chain lube for years that did not fling off. When whaling was outlawed. I switched to a lube with Moly in it. I'd like your thoughts on that...
I use paraffin, some old clean hand towels and a toothbrush for cleaning the chain ... always brings it up like new. Then I use Wurth HP Dry lube and a ChainMate for lubing duties. Lube after each couple of rides and give it a full clean once every 300/400 miles or so.
Tried gear oil for a while, great in dry weather, but would wash off when bike was left out in the rain leaving me to run the chain dry. Changed to a rock oil spray, been good so far feels very tacky though. Will be interested to see how it copes nearer the winter months. My commute is a 50+ round trip and use the bike in all but extreme weather. Having chewed up 2 chains in 18 month anything that helps prolong the life would be of great interest. Looking forward to the results!
gear oil whenever needed prolongs chain life as per the manufacturers recommendation. chain lube attracts dirt.
For me I use graphite bloc (dry lubricant) the chain passing non stop on the bloc avoiding à compound made of grit dust and sand abrasiv for the chain and it works well
Have been round and round this one for decades. Today I use plain old WD40 on all the bikes with chains - not the expensive WD40 bike product stuff, just plain old WD off of Amazon. As an overall experience it's superb, especially as it makes cleaning the sprocket and the rear wheel an absolute doddle
Only concern with WD is that it might penetrate the O-rings and start to wash out the grease that's packed there. We'll be testing it though...
Bennetts Bike kerosene and wd40 are safe for o rings
@Potassium Syndicate As proven here: th-cam.com/video/noshjM5CDas/w-d-xo.html
I clean mine with diesel, and use old engine oil as a lube. I have a Scott oiler that uses old engine oil. My chain on my zzr14 is over 25k miles old and still good. I believe that keeping the chain clean is as important as lube.
I have a chain tool so replacing a chain is not really a big deal. I don’t maintain my chain very often.
So factory grease is trapped inside the rings and stays there for the life of the chain. That’s also where the friction surfaces of the chain are. We don’t want anything to pass those seals. So what I don’t get is why do we want to lube the outside of the chain?? There no friction surfaces there so nothing to lubricate. And I don’t believe the lube lasts at the roller/sprocket interface long at all so is useless there...hence having a roller and not stiff bar for the sprockets to mesh with.
It's mainly corrosion protection but also to keep the seals lubricated, and within the rollers.
I am of the opinion that there is no way any oil can lubricate the contact between sprocket teeth and chain rollers.Only an oilbath chaincase would make a difference.That's why we are told to lubricate the edge of the links.And it is purely to stop the chain going rusty.And it is OK to clean the chain with WD40....it does not affect the O or X rings.EP 80-90 Gear Oil was tested against 9 other chainlubes on another TH-cam video and came out in 2nd place.A bloke I know destroyed a chain in less than 2000 miles....by pulling wheelies every 5 minutes!
I did reference Fort9's video of chain lube tests, and I soaked O-rings in several cleaners (including WD-40) for over a year. No, WD won't damage a chain's O-ring, but it is a penetrant, which could help wash away the grease that comes packed in the chain. We'll be testing everything possible in the cleaner and lube test that's coming up... John
Regular gear oil and a tooth brush. Been maintaining my chain like that for years. Happy with that.
This is excellent and extraordinary info! Thanks for sharing the knowledge and looking forward to the lubricant test!
any aerosol is bad news. small amount of gear oil is all you need.
What about chain cleaners though (I don't think Ryan F9's chain cleaner experiment was sufficiently scientific - what's the likelihood that balloons have exactly the same chemical composition as chain seals)? I think using Motul chain cleaner might have caused me some problems but can't be sure of what's caused one of my o-rings to split. After watching this it could also be that my alignment is very marginally 'off', or it could be something else entirely.
I'm building the chain cleaners test at the moment; it will be a way off, but it'll look at O-ring compatibility (as well as the plastics used on chain guards). Cheers, John
I've been riding for over 40 years, always used paraffin to clean, always got good chain life.
@@bennettsbikesocial I would be curious to this as well since RyanF9 tested that Parrafin (Kerosene for the U.S.) would creep through the o-rings and essentially wash out the grease, but it is generally the most recommended chain cleaner from bike manufactures in the owners manual.
Just use standard gear oil (most of the time gear oil is mentioned in your hand book) stop buying chain lube.....Looking forward to seeing the results of your tests.
@sick puppy being messy is what makes it great for the chain, keep it wet and nothing sticks to it so it last.
Is gear oil same as engine oil?
@Shalin what is gear oil?
@@nandu1770 more gloopy than engine oil. Its used in a gearbox
I use Meguiars Ultimate Quik Wax... on the shaft drive for the R1250gs. Works a treat !
Show off! :)
@@bennettsbikesocial Yea but wait until his shaft gives him the shaft! and to make matters worse the dealer might be closed down.... now what is he going to do! I tell you what, he will sell the bugger!
@@davidfalgout7304 Na
@@wyncarleton1750 YEA !
I ride old Eastern European two strokes, I have an MZ, CZ and a Russian Voskhod. They all have fully enclosed chains, all of them are very well engineered chain cases especially the Voskhod. They are all western chains and are non o ring and they all look as clean and perfect as the day they were put on, the CZ chain for example has been on since 1989 and has covered around 40000 miles. It has only ever been lubricated with ep90 gear oil , a little squirt maybe 4 times a year. I’m sure this is completely down to the chain cases keeping them clean. I never clean them just lube them and they rarely need adjustment.
There's no lubricating the points of contact between the rollers and the sprocket.
What about chain oilers? Be interesting to see the different results.
Scottoiler is the only intelligent answer!
I used Wurth dry chain lube before I went shaft drive - it’s a leap of faith as you can not see it so you just have to believe it’s there doing it’s job. What I did (which initially was a faff I’ll admit) was clean off all the grease I could from the chain as soon as I bought the bike (Triumph Tiger 1050 Sport) using a chain cleaner and then painted the side plates with metal lacquer to protect them from corrosion, sprayed on the dry lube and continued to do so every fuel fill up for the next 12,000 miles until I sold the bike with the chain and sprockets still like new. The chain stayed clean, no “fling” on the back wheel, no corrosion and it only ever needed adjusted at tyre change time. Grease and wax just attract grit and make a grinding paste so you end up in an endless cycle of cleaning, lubing, cleaning, lubing. It worked for me anyway.
That's dedication! Cheers, John
YES! I want to see this follow up video!!!!! Brilliant!
If I clean and lube the chain religiously, how much more chain life would I get? 30% more? 50% more?
And how much money would I have spent on chain products? More than the price of a new chain I guess...
I quitted cleaning my chain. I just nonchalantly lube it with motor oil.
Jerry-rigged a plastic extension at the end of my chain guard to keep oil splash in check.
Chain definitely need cleaning and lubrication.
Personal anecdote: me and one of my buddies got the same bike within a few weeks distance, both new. He didn’t care about his chain, I cleaned and lubed mine every 500-1000km. He needed to change his chain by 15000km, mine is at 33000 and still has a lot of life in it.
I think it should really be called sprocket lube. Apart from preventing rust and stopping the seals drying out, the lube doesn't do much. When the roller touches the sprocket it stops moving and it's the greased part of the chain (inside) that does the moving. The lube on a chain just helps with that initial contact with the sprocket. I've not done any testing but I imagine the benefit of lube is going to be sprocket wear prevention rather than chain wear.
TBH, I'm somewhat skeptical that it's worth the effort. It may depend a bit on the bike, but I got about 10k miles with basically no maintenance on my last chain and the sprockets were still good enough to not require replacing at that time. I ride all year round and it's rather wet here and it just seems like the benefit from this stuff is just not there.
While I am spending more money on sprockets and chains than I would be if I regularly cleaned and lubed my chain, chains are not very expensive, I recently picked up a chain/sprocket set for only like $90 whereas the last time I bothered to pick up the gear to clean and lube, it was a substantial fraction of the replacement gear.
Chainsaw oil as well ?
Good call... it's on the list now.
retired from motos to race MTB Downhill and I use to use Chainsaw oil on my MTB, it attracts way to much dirt....Now I'm using a Lithium spray but it goes quick. going to use gear oil like I did on my motos.
The cost of the chain lube isn’t cost effective compared with replacing a chain
Yes this lube does work but your better of using wd40 and cleaning your chain properly and replacing it more often rather than spending £30 on 2 cans of this stuff 🤷♂️
A good chain can be had for £50 now
Makes even less sense if your riding off road machinery
Yes, but it's not just for wear. As discussed, It's also to keep the 'O' rings (Or 'X' or whatever) soft so they retain the grease as well as to reduce wear on the sprockets, help with smooth gear changes, reduce noise etc. And in doing all of that it reduces friction so increases power transmission.
Ray Davison Well just use a Cheap Silicone based lubricant then 🤷♂️
crm2507777 ...Head down to the Hone Depot and pick up DuPont Teflon spray in the blue can. Here in the US it's about $4.59 US.
Why not go further. Don't bother with fork and shock oil refreshes, engine oil and filter changes. And hey, why bother washing the bike either? All of these will save you money, just change the bike instead.
@@raydavison2972 That's a bit different. Swapping sprockets and chain isn't that hard. I'm terrible about chain maintenance and I still get years out of a decent set. There's a certain point where the expense makes no sense whatsoever. Those other things are either a pain to repair the damage from or can result in extremely expensive damage to the bike.
In terms of the chain, as long as you maintain the slack and pay attention to the wear on the chain/sprockets, there isn't much harm done to anything else. By the GP's numbers, you'd have to be going through a new chain/sprocket set ever like 6 months before you get anywhere near the point of braking even. What's more, there's an environmental impact that comes from this stuff washing off.
Chain lube traps dirt so you have to clean too. Used WD40 only - had 17k miles on my bike and zero wear. Fz1.
I would recommend a small amount of gear oil for the rollers and sprocket life also mate.
Motul C5 chain paste please. Will be interesting to see if the easier application compromises protection.
My chain is sticky and greasy after I start spraying it.. before that it was great. Now I try to find how to clean it perfectly and never lube it again. Bike is Aprila Rsv4
Check out the chain lubes test here: th-cam.com/video/noshjM5CDas/w-d-xo.html
What are the numbers on replacing chains and buying lube? I really have no idea, but replacing a chain is not like overhauling the motor or something. And chain lube is not cheap. So perhaps not lubricating and just buying a new chain is cheaper? Who can tell me this?
Been cleaning my chain with kerosene for years. Then I wipe away the residue and lube it with Wurth dry lube. Keeps chain in A1 condition and zero fling on my back wheel .
Gear oil with paint brush with light touch with paper towel to remove excess as I spin the rear wheel.
Lube with used 10W40 (free), clean with Actioncan's BC90 (£4 500ml at Toolstation).
Takes maybe a minute or two, twice a week.
Thanks! Have put them on the list...
I’m goin’ nekked from now on. Way too much frustration with the fling. I’ll change by chain/sprocket twice instead of using chain schmoo.
I tried S100 lube out of curiostity, and it was the best lube i have tried in 30 years. I ride 10% gravel roads, and wondered why my chains wore out so quickly. The reason was called: Maxima
This is probably the most sensible video I've seen till now. Talking about what should be talked. My owners manual specifies to use a sae 90w oil. That's it. Iam considering to use a 140 oil. Would highly appreciate your opinion on that. The bike is a ninja 650. Thanks
Thanks very much... you'll love this then! th-cam.com/video/noshjM5CDas/w-d-xo.html
I've been saying for years, why dont they design bikes with enclosed chains with an inspection flap, they could make them look like a shaft drive system in bet. Here in the uk with our heavy rainfall, it would make sense and maybe our chains would last a lot longer. Maybe the manufacturers wouldn't like this though and that's why it's not happening.
Honda 50 step thru had enclosed rear chain. makes engineering sense
I've used Wurth Dry Chain lube for years. It's great - doesn't fling off, and hardly attracts dirt. I clean with paraffin before applying.
Have you seen the full chain lubes test I did? th-cam.com/video/noshjM5CDas/w-d-xo.htmlsi=dVVIpomj9QekLchs
Nicely covered as far as it goes but….. no one seems to mention the wear that must be caused by the mix of road grime and sticky lubricant on the rollers, effectively making a grinding paste between the roller and sprocket.
Here's the full feature: www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/motorcycle-maintenance-and-servicing/best-motorcycle-chain-lube
back in the 1950s on the farm where machine chains ran in dirty dusty environments. NO lube. The chains and sprokets ran the longest with least wear. we did not let the chains out in the weather to rust. my suzuki dr200 the factory manual tell us to NOT put lube on the chain. I keep my motorcycle in the garage when not in use. no problems with chain or sprocket wear. what these guys do not understand that dirt and grease make a grinding compound.
most people dont have a garage though
When i get a bike i fit a new high quality chain/sprockets (Renthal/DID), clean the chain twice a week or after a wet ride with WD40, then spray with GT85, wipe off the excess, no sticky mess and the gold chain stays looking great. I'm a bit OCD though.
I always clean my chain thoroughly before lubing with EP 90 gear oil and then wiping off excess. With dry weather riding I do that every 500 miles - wet weather more frequently. Any other method will turn your chain lube into grinding paste - Been doing this for at least 40 years now - All chains wear out in the end but my GSXR 1100 back in the 90's, drive chain lasted 23000 miles before I had to replace it and I used to to ride it extremely hard. I bought My 2005 Z1000 new and still have it - and it still has its original chain, although I'm only a fair weather rider now as I'm getting on in years. The only time I have ever used spray on chain lube in the past, was when European touring and then I had a very large can of industrial chain lube (much cheaper) - and then washed it all off when I go back home.
I made my own oiler with a plastic bottle filled with W90 oil, some plastic tubing and a gas pump from a chainsaw parts shop. A few pumps when the chain becomes visibly dry and I'm good for another 200km or so
Scott Oiler
@@raymondo162 O.S.C.O. 😉
every 200km? that's mental, man.
@@grumpy_cat1337 "or so". depends on the road condition
Just gear oil 80/90
1L for 10 years
That's what's stated on japanese motorcycle manufactures service manuals. We must give credit to them. Japanes engineers know what they're doing. Honda alone has more than 800 motorcycle Grand Prix wins.
Just an example (not from Honda):
"If a special lubricant is not available, a heavy oil such as SAE 90 is preferred to a lighter oil because it will stay on the chain longer and provide better lubrication."
On road bikes, the only downside compared to comercial spray lubricants is more rear wheel fling
Caution should be used with certain lubricants such as mineral based oils which can degrade the elastomers (o and x rings).
When I can finally get started on this, I will be testing the products for safety with O-rings. Cheers, John
Chain alignment or wheel alignment, which is more important? They are not the same and both are important and will be the same if the frame, swinging arm and engine mounts are all perfectly aligned but they never will be even from the factory.
Good question, and that's why keeping the O-rings well lubricated is important; personally, I'd align by the wheels (I use two straight-edges when I want it bang-on). John
A scotoiler filled with any old crap oil from WalMart works great for me. Got over 30000 miles out my last chain
friction and metal: the wear protection with your O rings at speed is a small hand with perpetual middle finger extended.
what material are the seals made from. the cleaner/lubricator must also preserve the seals. but also this chemical should resist water. my best guess is a silicone spray or silicone brake fluid.
My two cents (yes I'm cheap), I use 80/90w gear oil mixed with a a very small amount graphite on a hot chain it's so cheap I have to relube more often (350km) more so in rain obviously as always.
It removes contaminants from the chain as it eventually flys off because of the detergents in it.
Grime just wipes off easily with rag.
In winter I use IPONE chain lube, and for summer I'm using Renthal Chain lube (oil). The two are not sticky for dirt, and preserves very well the chain!
Thanks! In the test, which really is, finally, coming soon!
@@bennettsbikesocial Thanks :)
the o-rings are between the two links, but what about between the links and the rollers? are there o-rings in there too?
There's O-rings on every pin of the chain and they all need keeping sweet
@@bennettsbikesocial thanks, I wasn't sure
hey, I have been using S100 for years and my chain lasts about 60,000 km. I spray about every 300 km. nice video
Cheers! You'll like this then...www.bennetts.co.uk/bikesocial/reviews/products/motorcycle-maintenance-and-servicing/best-motorcycle-chain-lube
the longest lasting chain, that I've had on a bike, was a 428 on a 1979 CZ 250-471.4 , which lasted just over 15,000 miles. I never used chain lube, instead relying on the inbuild total loss drive chain oiling system & fully enclosed oil bath that the bike had as OEM. The 428 chain only had to deal with 17 HP & 28.5 Pounds/Foot of torque though.
When it came to replacing the chain the fully enclosed chain guard with oil bath made it a messy job, so I ran without it. The hot gear box oil drip feed, through the output sprocket shaft centre, still functioned, giving the exposed chain a service life of 7,000 to 8,000 miles. The system loses 1 drip of gearbox oil per 2 or 3 miles, which also lubricates the automatic clutch actuator, before ending up on the primary sprocket and being spun out into the chain. The owners manual recommends topping th gearbox oil up very 1,000 miles. The only fault with it is when the tiny O ring metering washer wears out and the the drive chain is over lubricated, flinging a lot about the right side of the tyre (it costs 2p to replace).
My Royal Enfield 1986 has this system. It's called prether or something. Mine has 18 bhp and its a 350 cc long strong engine. Chain lasted for a long time that I was so amazed that my friend changed his chain for his new bike..
Include Diesel fuel in your test. I've heard it is the best and available at most gas stations on a trip.
I tried gear oil for the first time. I am never buying chain lube again. Sure, it flings a bit from start. But what it also flings off is dirt and gravel. And the chain looks like new, is dead quiet and it stays this way for quite some time. The gear oil is also dirt cheap.
Soaked my new chain in heated up grease overnight. Had a Scottoiler on it, rode the bike (a pre power restriction CB125TC) with mechanical sympathy. The chain lasted just under two years. Admittedly only about 50-80 miles a week though but still, that's a long life for a chain.
I really miss that bike. Was faster than a mate of mines CB250.
i've done nearly 15k miles so far on my MT 07 stock chain after 2 years and 2 months
chain lube is scam..jusr use diesel for cleaning,and used motor oil for chain lube
My bike is broken i tried you're tip didn't end well 🙃
I clean regularly with WD40, then use a a good quality engine oil in a soaked rag then wipe off the excess so not to have a mess. Engine oil has to maintain a film between the most extreme place in the engine the big end bearings, so maintain a film on a chain with quality engine oil is no a problem, also has detergent in the oil so when wiping off the excess it polishes the outer chain after cleaning and re oiling. Down side takes more time and too much oil makes a mess, I used wax lube but it goes hard and is tough to clean, if I use spray I used Motul road and track that seems to be the best for me. Bikes Ducati 1299, 1199, 749, Scrambler and Desert sled used on tracks and road and I don’t have wear problems.
Chain lube is ok for road bikes , but no good for dirt bikes. Our group stoped using chain lube and we have doubled the life of our chain and sprockets. I clean the chain after every ride with degreaser or bike cleaner. Then spin out the water. Spray with WD40 or Inox. 100 percent doubles the life. The chain lube attracts dust dirt and mud and and turns it into a grinding paste which increases wear.
30 year daily rider here:
Nothing works like a ScottOiler. The slow but continuous flow on the chain with oil cleans it and helps it last a long time. I use the cheapest two stroke engine oil I can find to fill it, and wash the drive and wheel down with Simple Green and a hose about every other month. Thats all thats needed. It just works. My current bike is a 98 bought new that now has 120k miles on it. I put a ScottOiler on it in 99, and its been there ever since, and still works. Done.
TOTALLY right, Mafren. On my Trophy 3, I went from weekly chain adjust and lube to monthly or better. Same on my Tiger. Chain lasts longer too