@@orthocoinbitzantium1002 huh??? I am talking about how I wish to know more about God's Creation so that I can appreciate it more than I currently can. It's out of love for God - Not for some arrogance of the intellect
@@csongorarpad4670 i think what he meant is be careful of where you could perceive because that which you're perceive can transform you drastically in a way that you wouldn't prepare to go toward into
You can tell Mr. Boyce really wants to understand it. He’s a pretty poetic guy, but like me and most other people it seems like he’s having trouble shaking the materialist conditioning. This stuff all goes over my head but I’m grabbing on to pieces one at a time and putting it together.
@juniperstardust5549 For sure, well it's been two years and with reading Matthieu's book and looking at things through different lenses, the stuff Pageau talks about, along with a lot of stories we live by without thinking about them, make way too much sense now. Dreams are more interesting too honestly. Looking forward to Matthieu's next book.
I saw the Pageau video on Genesis including Peterson's comments. Any Pageau and Peterson dialog serves the Platonic "Good". Good dialog is always a reflection of the "Good" .. a healing pattern. Good dialog always comes from above, from heaven IMO. Serving the "Good" is an act of love. I used to believe that the early church got their reasoning from the Greeks. Pageau proves the patterns were already there in Genesis before the Greeks. Love for patterns; love for the Good; Love for God ... God's love (embodied good)started it all. "It's all Greek to me" is longer a term of ignorance for me. Whoever capture this clip you did great service. Thanks.
Your point about good dialog being a healing pattern reminds me of something Jordan mentioned in his podcast with Mustafa Akyol. Closer to the end of the podcast, he notws that Carl Rogers, along with Freud and the psychoanalysts, argued that good dialogue, allowing ppl to reveal themself to themself is deeply healing. And that this process, is the person of Christ, in the West at least.
More mystical metaphysics: The Church, Mary the Theokotos, and the Bride of Christ are analogous. The Church (similar to Wisdom) existed before Creation.
"If man's in the center, then man becomes the antipode to God." But God is in the center, resting on the 7th day. So, if creation is a single framed imaged, God is both creating and also resting, both creating and residing within his creation. There is some of 'the unmoved mover' here.
As a believer raised Protestant, the timeless eternality of the Incarnation absolutely rings true for me. The Incarnation, and everything the God-Man exhibits in time and space, is the beginning and end of all things-the bedrock and consummation of reality! Which really means that there is no pre-incarnate Christ/disembodied Word. To suggest the existence of a disincarnate Son of God is to send the message that God was once unassociated with our humanity. But God has never been unassociated or without our God-given humanity, since God enfleshed is the sole basis of what it means for God to KNOW humanity. And let us not forget: the exact expression of all that is divine is Jesus Christ-the Human God! This means that though God is fundamentally not a human being (since humans are created and God is uncreated), Him becoming man is paradoxically everything that the Divine Nature IS! This also means that every human being that has ever existed or will ever exist is hidden in the Divine Humanity of Christ Jesus, our Savior and King! You could say that since Christ is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, He is also, just as much, incarnate from the foundation of Creation. Definitely a mind-bender, but nonetheless, should ring true to the soul of everyone made in the Divine Image.
The Incarnation, simply put, is God IN our humanity, experiencing that very humanity from a vantage point that transcends human existence. So as much as the Incarnation specifically has to do with God taking on physical flesh, it mystically surpasses the physical manifestation of it.
Between watching John and Bonacci, I've gotten a good education on the reality of the Bible. Much different than what I was taught up until recently. Awesome video!
I keep seeing Orthodoxy as the Apostolic faith that can answer all my questions. Even questions I didn’t know I had. High church Anglicanism and Catholicism just doesn’t have this ability IMO to truly explain these ideas and yet keep them mystery.
Abraham 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these, there were many of the noble and great ones; 23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
Hey, I've been recently reading "Genesis, Creation and Early man" by Fr. Seraphim Rose at the behest of Jay Dyer and I was wondering, because I remember Pageau saying he "believed" evolution happened. How common is that in the Church for you?, do all of you in the FB group think mostly the same way? Thank you in any case :)
I mean, (neo-)Darwinism, and the idea that the Genesis needs to be read so as to accommodate it, that Genesis is less "literal" than a creationist might think. Literal, here, is not used in the sense of an either/or statement, in keeping with the commentaries of the Fathers. As an example, Jesus manifests the divine pattern in His life, but His life is also historical. Is Genesis an exception to this? Sorry if I'm not clear enough.
@@jorge4009 I think the first cautionary note should be in how your questions are formed regarding the "belief" part of evolution; Pageau and others (Fr. Stephen de Young comes to mind) haven't necessarily stated that they _believe_ evolution happened so much as that it doesn't matter in the way it has been made to matter in the cultural debates over the last 100 years. I highly recommend Fr. Stephen de Young's and Fr. Andrew Damick's podcast "The Lord of Spirits" as an example of how to think about the events in Genesis. It's not a point-by-point approach to the Creation narrative, but rather it offers tremendous insights into what was happening in the ancient world and the context into which those texts were written. But more directly, there are numerous Orthodox scholars who have a different take than did Fr. Seraphim Rose, and several who have called into question his methodology (Fr. Thomas Hopko comes to mind). This is not to say that Fr. Seraphim shouldn't be read; rather, that his was not necessarily a majority-held position on that subject.
@@Gregorydrobny I used the word believe because Pageau has said "I don't **believe** in it... I believe it happened, but I don't **believe** in it". So I understand the point and the emphasis. I just used the only word out there that is available to me at the moment. Do they speak to this point in "The Lord of Spirits" or is it more generally about how they read Genesis? I will listen to them regardless, just curious in case I miss something there. I just tried to search Fr. Thomas Hopko speaking about this and Fr. Seraphim. Is it the podcast "Darwin and Christianity" or is there something else? Thank you for taking the time to reply and giving me more to go on about this subject!
@@Gregorydrobny At the time, after reading a bit of "Darwin on Trial", listening to the interview of atheist David Berlinksi, Dyer's objections, and some of Fr. Seraphim, I'm feeling very much biased against Darwinism, which if you knew where I come from, would be very surprising. I find it curious that the majority held position is not against Darwinism, but I don't find it surprising. I hope I can gain some clarity on this. Sorry for the tangent, I just wanted to leave some references here for anyone curious. :)
I've mulled over the idea that Satan's fall and Man's Fall are one and the same and his rebellion mirrors over the Snake in the Garden as he sought to sabotage us out of jealousy. To put it one way, we were in some way apart of the angels that fell to earth with him.
There are entire advancements in Theology that include a pre-mortal spiritual existence. A state in the presence of God before obtaining a mortal body, the Bible alludes to this many times. A place where fallen angels have fallen from. This is the source of conscience, knowledge we obtained before we are born into mortality that give us a gauge for justice and love. The desire and search for love, the indignation at injustice, aren't a programmed constructed knowledge, it is experiential knowledge that we feel impressions of.
This conversation is absolutely fascinating especially as I'm reading Hart's The Experience of God in his discussion of Aristotle's four causes. Our experience of existence primarily is by way of final and formal causes. Only later, and after a deliberate choice of the will, does the evaluation of the efficient causes bringing an object into being come into play. It highlights that, despite what our secular materialist phronema is, the teleologic is the primary way we engage with reality, not the mechanical one.
These ideas of man at the centre and man at the top sure caused a lot of grief to people... Pattern seeking also means exclusion of things or people outside those patterns.
Maybe when he talks about fish and birds being made at the same time and the stars, maybe he is referring from the realm of matter where in different realms they don’t have physical bodies or matter
Jesus love you, he died on the cross for you, accept him as your lord and savior he can change everything. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life" (John 3:16) But you must repent too. From that time Jesus went about preaching and saying, Let your hearts be turned from sin, for the kingdom of heaven is near. (Matthew 4:17):
I just heard them discussing one day is 1000 in gods time. So when you see you one day in the Bible, it really means 1000 years so when he created it didn’t happen in a 24 hour day. I just heard a whole thing on that and it was very interesting. I don’t know if you said anything like that I didn’t hear your whole thing yet, but I listen to someone going through the entire Bible and looking at one day and relating it to other parts of the Bible, where one day was 1000 in Gods time
Man is The Highest Aspiration, he is The Head of Living Animal Itself. He is Macrocosm, Microcosm and that which is Between. The Whole Hierarchy of Being belongs to He, from Top to Low.
Someone ??? gave me this interpretation of Creation, which I think is pretty good. In the unformed state, God creates Consciousness, In that Consciousness, WE[man are created ]we continue creating downwards. [hierarchy] We can't create up to God!, but we can create. Then one day we think we are as good as God. This oppositional thought creates a tremendous conflict /guilt that we find unbearable and causes us to run from God by creating and creating because we want never to think this unbearable thought again, we want to lose ourselves in the WORLD [possibly we created]. Because up until this point we were aligned with God. Jesus manifested to show us a road back to our 'Godself' as God loves us so much. {Probably God doesn't even know our bad selves, will only recognize his own likeness] But God wants us back for us to experience a peace beyond our understanding.
Basically, in short, for those who will understand the reference, Jesus Christ is the true "Adam Kadmon". He is the True Man from the very instant of creation. Christ is always Incarnate in the nature He receives from His Virgin Mother from the moment of creation.
isnt it heresy to say that man was there with God in the begning i mean, we are not the same and on the same level as Him, by no means at all, this thought for me was actually not good or intuitive at all
Yeah it doesn’t make any sense and seems to exalt man to the same level of god in a way that not only makes man seem godlike but make god seem human like. I know someone can point to Christ as an embodiment of this but it’s just not to be found in the pages of genesis.
Awe...but the artist sees form before content. This is why we look at our art upside down to see it. We don't draw trees. We draw forms of green and smell of earth..
The artist paints relationships, not things. Pays attention to edges and how they play together and interlock. Sees the overall darks and lights as a value pattern. Form is only one small aspect and usually relates only to strictly representational work.
Fish and Birds on the same day. Creation follow of pattern in 3 Vessels, then 3 things to fill said vessels. The 2nd Day is Waters Above and Waters Below. "What is up?" The Sky. "Does stuff come out of the Sky?" Yes, rain, snow. "What are those made out of?" Water. "What color is water?" Blue. "What color is the Sky?" Blue. So what's all that "stuff" in the Sky? It's all blue." .... Oh.
I also just listen to Jonathan Cahn And of course he talks about the gods are back. He wrote a book and you talk about the gods but their back the evil guides and they’re back you said in the form of technology, etc. But they’re back. He also Has a video to President Biden about how he’s opening the doors to certain God. I hope you read that or are you saying it perhaps you should talk to him on a video I would love to hear the both of you talking about it. Does that interest you
I was thinking more hierarchical. God is ever existent, and out of the love between the Holy Trinity comes the creation of ([the] heaven(s) with a myriad of angels. But even the heavens could not contain His love. So out of that came the creation of earth and the cosmos with all of its creatures. Then God wanted to portray His love in all He created, so He made man in His image that would tend the world He created with the help of the angels, (hence why Eve even talked to the serpent/seraphim- it was normal). But the angels began to look down on mankind as inferior beings. Therefore, these intermediary beings- the angels- sought to overthrow God, and as we know they were cast down. Weather the serpent that tempted Eve was in the Garden already or not is unclear to me, but I do know that in his pride in tempting Adam and Eve, he was further humbled. ***But that begs the question: “Why would God create beings that would rebel against Him and seek to destroy everything He has built?” It was so that He can define throughout all creation, and through creation- what Love is; who He is. He created us to emulate His Divine Nature; especially that of communion/Community/Common;Shared Love between a united people, in a way that mirrors the love between the Holy Trinity. And that is why this hierarchical view is quite fascinating, because what we end up seeing is that it is in humility that we find salvation. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” So the serpent loses his hands and feet, to crawl on his belly and eat dust. And we are given the opportunity to repent in our ability to remember our mortality; that we are but dust. And in this remembrance, it draws us toward a humility the serpent can never comprehend- thus can never repent and be saved. For this reason the serpent hates us. But it is even more fascinating to see that this humus ultimately demonstrated by the very God who created all things and displays His love by the humility of His incarnation and later His death and resurrection. But the victory is not even fully realized until His humility leads to His exaltation in the ascension to the right hand of the Father. Because in His ascension, He elevates our human nature ABOVE that of the middle creatures- the angels. God has now made us “sons of God” and have debased the fallen creatures to eternal fire.
The creation account ultimately relates to the certain epical advance in the wilderness made remarkable with every New World like our own, and since Columbus. The epical and finally universal advance of all such New Worlds, is then made equivalent to, and overlaid upon, the same epical advance having established mankind universally already in prehistory. The 1st day creation of light not only relates to the mastery of fire in prehistory as it was possessed by the Native Americans; but it becomes the even more advanced mastery coming with the Europeans in the 16th century in the form of metallurgy and gunpowder creating cannon and firearms. The 2nd separation of waters above from below and the creation of Heaven as a firmament in between, relates to the establishment of the past cycle of history coming from Rome as it traced its seaborne origins back to Aeneas and the fall of Troy; even as our own New World and newly universal Civilization and Empire of today as begun by the Anglo-Saxon Protestant colonization begun in the opening decade of the 17th century forms a new stage for the historical advance of the next millennium or overall cycle of history. The 3rd day separation of the Seas in such previous migrations, and the bringing forth of the dry land or Earth, relates to our new national founding in the 18th century, upon such democratic grasses or amber waves of grain, in relation to such colonial herbs, and fruit trees otherwise of our Founding Fathers (hence, Washington and his cherry tree). The fourth day, or 19th century creation of the sun, moon, and stars, relate respectively to the democratic and popular rise of Empire beginning with Napoleon, and the following succession of nationalisms, as these grew along the starry constellations of the large metropolises arising with industrialization. The 5th day or 20th century creation of fish and fowl relate, in turn, to the world leaders then arising, or fished from the depths of the world regions, with the two World Wars and the corporate advent of a mass media, in the first instance of fish. While the fowl then relate to the non-violent forms of religion that no less universally emerged with Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr. The sixth day creation of man then intimates the eventual creation over this century of once again wholly gathered and culturally communistic communities like those of Acts 2, as these become the organic or living basis to the blood and body of Christ as the future priesthood and kingdoms to come thereby, just as such a today Roman Catholic priesthood and the previous kingdoms of Western Europe from which we came, grew out of those earlier Christian communities and their apostolic spread ethnographically and world regionally creating the Saints. The 7th day or 22nd century establishment of a “rest”, relates precisely to the certain millenarian visions and judgments otherwise, in which such epochs of those epical and historic advances to all such New Worlds are then scripturally cast, in relation to just such always certain”generations”, whereby “these are the generations of the heavens and the earth” - or of such cycles or circuits of history formed in between and upon each Old World and New in historic succession and stage - “in the day” - or given generation and breath of the Lord, himself - “that the Lord God created the earth” - as such a certain epical axis and eternally returning stage - “and the heaven” - as the spacious skies of every such New World and finally universal advance. This, of course, then creates the certain manufacturing, boated, and 500 year old figure of Noah at such heights like our own of today, whereby he builds the certain three stories to an ark of generation in relation to the Lord, of himself, and such a more millenarian command and vision.
This stuff makes so much sense now. It's wild to think that when I started watching Pageau years ago, it felt almost impossible to comprehend.
My thirst to understand God and his splendid Creation is unquenchable
- Much thanks to this channel inspiring more and more ambition within me!
Unquenchable thirst for knowledge is gnosticism not Grace
Demiurge
@@orthocoinbitzantium1002 huh???
I am talking about how I wish to know more about God's Creation so that I can appreciate it more than I currently can.
It's out of love for God - Not for some arrogance of the intellect
@@csongorarpad4670 i think what he meant is be careful of where you could perceive because that which you're perceive can transform you drastically in a way that you wouldn't prepare to go toward into
Man is the fulcrum between heaven and earth. That's so cool. And the whole purpose of creation is for man. That is so awesome!
Man is central, but the purpose of creation is Christ. He is to be the firstborn among many brethren--thats us! We hope.
@@EamonBurke yes
@@EamonBurkeChrist came for whom? Christ came to save Man, God created us for him, Man is above the angels.
Christ was not created @@PerfectSolutionsLTDA
Jonathan is a blessing to our generation. God bless him
You can tell Mr. Boyce really wants to understand it. He’s a pretty poetic guy, but like me and most other people it seems like he’s having trouble shaking the materialist conditioning. This stuff all goes over my head but I’m grabbing on to pieces one at a time and putting it together.
That sounds like you're actively patterning to me
You'll get it, believe me, we all go through that, but with practice and listening repeatedly the dots start to connect themselves.
@juniperstardust5549 For sure, well it's been two years and with reading Matthieu's book and looking at things through different lenses, the stuff Pageau talks about, along with a lot of stories we live by without thinking about them, make way too much sense now. Dreams are more interesting too honestly. Looking forward to Matthieu's next book.
I saw the Pageau video on Genesis including Peterson's comments. Any Pageau and Peterson dialog serves the Platonic "Good". Good dialog is always a reflection of the "Good" .. a healing pattern. Good dialog always comes from above, from heaven IMO. Serving the "Good" is an act of love. I used to believe that the early church got their reasoning from the Greeks. Pageau proves the patterns were already there in Genesis before the Greeks. Love for patterns; love for the Good; Love for God ... God's love (embodied good)started it all. "It's all Greek to me" is longer a term of ignorance for me. Whoever capture this clip you did great service. Thanks.
Your point about good dialog being a healing pattern reminds me of something Jordan mentioned in his podcast with Mustafa Akyol. Closer to the end of the podcast, he notws that Carl Rogers, along with Freud and the psychoanalysts, argued that good dialogue, allowing ppl to reveal themself to themself is deeply healing. And that this process, is the person of Christ, in the West at least.
I, too, eat things that eat things that eat dirt.
Jonathan is a neverending source of ideas and connections
More mystical metaphysics: The Church, Mary the Theokotos, and the Bride of Christ are analogous. The Church (similar to Wisdom) existed before Creation.
Watching this in the middle of a hockey game so don’t disappoint!
"If man's in the center, then man becomes the antipode to God."
But God is in the center, resting on the 7th day.
So, if creation is a single framed imaged, God is both creating and also resting, both creating and residing within his creation. There is some of 'the unmoved mover' here.
Dang, that's a good clip. Will be relistening a few times until it sinks into my "pattern mechanism"
I would like to point out
“God created the heaven and the earth, and the earth was without form”
As a believer raised Protestant, the timeless eternality of the Incarnation absolutely rings true for me. The Incarnation, and everything the God-Man exhibits in time and space, is the beginning and end of all things-the bedrock and consummation of reality! Which really means that there is no pre-incarnate Christ/disembodied Word. To suggest the existence of a disincarnate Son of God is to send the message that God was once unassociated with our humanity. But God has never been unassociated or without our God-given humanity, since God enfleshed is the sole basis of what it means for God to KNOW humanity. And let us not forget: the exact expression of all that is divine is Jesus Christ-the Human God! This means that though God is fundamentally not a human being (since humans are created and God is uncreated), Him becoming man is paradoxically everything that the Divine Nature IS! This also means that every human being that has ever existed or will ever exist is hidden in the Divine Humanity of Christ Jesus, our Savior and King! You could say that since Christ is the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, He is also, just as much, incarnate from the foundation of Creation. Definitely a mind-bender, but nonetheless, should ring true to the soul of everyone made in the Divine Image.
The Incarnation, simply put, is God IN our humanity, experiencing that very humanity from a vantage point that transcends human existence. So as much as the Incarnation specifically has to do with God taking on physical flesh, it mystically surpasses the physical manifestation of it.
To be honest the lamb/sacrifice stuff stands out as not fitting with the rest of everything else.
Duns Scotus- the Absolute Primacy of Christ
@@LordJagd “Christ giving up His life for us from a vantage point outside of time stands out as not fitting with everything else” as in what?
@@MattisWell.20 I went back and reread your original comment. This sounds like schizophrenia.
Between watching John and Bonacci, I've gotten a good education on the reality of the Bible. Much different than what I was taught up until recently. Awesome video!
I keep seeing Orthodoxy as the Apostolic faith that can answer all my questions. Even questions I didn’t know I had.
High church Anglicanism and Catholicism just doesn’t have this ability IMO to truly explain these ideas and yet keep them mystery.
Joyful to hear.
Abraham 3:22 Now the Lord had shown unto me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was; and among all these, there were many of the noble and great ones;
23 And God saw these souls that they were good, and he stood in the midst of them, and he said: These I will make my rulers; for he stood among those that were spirits, and he saw that they were good; and he said unto me: Abraham, thou art one of them; thou wast chosen before thou wast born.
🤯. I can’t fully get my head around it yet but things were clicking for me here. Thank you! How did I never see this
I've been reading a lot of Owen Barfield (and struggling to understand). This really makes sense in that line of thought.
Yes. Saving the Appearances and Poetic Diction are life changing works!
Hey, I've been recently reading "Genesis, Creation and Early man" by Fr. Seraphim Rose at the behest of Jay Dyer and I was wondering, because I remember Pageau saying he "believed" evolution happened. How common is that in the Church for you?, do all of you in the FB group think mostly the same way?
Thank you in any case :)
I mean, (neo-)Darwinism, and the idea that the Genesis needs to be read so as to accommodate it, that Genesis is less "literal" than a creationist might think. Literal, here, is not used in the sense of an either/or statement, in keeping with the commentaries of the Fathers. As an example, Jesus manifests the divine pattern in His life, but His life is also historical. Is Genesis an exception to this?
Sorry if I'm not clear enough.
@@jorge4009 I think the first cautionary note should be in how your questions are formed regarding the "belief" part of evolution; Pageau and others (Fr. Stephen de Young comes to mind) haven't necessarily stated that they _believe_ evolution happened so much as that it doesn't matter in the way it has been made to matter in the cultural debates over the last 100 years.
I highly recommend Fr. Stephen de Young's and Fr. Andrew Damick's podcast "The Lord of Spirits" as an example of how to think about the events in Genesis. It's not a point-by-point approach to the Creation narrative, but rather it offers tremendous insights into what was happening in the ancient world and the context into which those texts were written.
But more directly, there are numerous Orthodox scholars who have a different take than did Fr. Seraphim Rose, and several who have called into question his methodology (Fr. Thomas Hopko comes to mind). This is not to say that Fr. Seraphim shouldn't be read; rather, that his was not necessarily a majority-held position on that subject.
@@Gregorydrobny I used the word believe because Pageau has said "I don't **believe** in it... I believe it happened, but I don't **believe** in it". So I understand the point and the emphasis. I just used the only word out there that is available to me at the moment.
Do they speak to this point in "The Lord of Spirits" or is it more generally about how they read Genesis? I will listen to them regardless, just curious in case I miss something there.
I just tried to search Fr. Thomas Hopko speaking about this and Fr. Seraphim. Is it the podcast "Darwin and Christianity" or is there something else?
Thank you for taking the time to reply and giving me more to go on about this subject!
@@Gregorydrobny At the time, after reading a bit of "Darwin on Trial", listening to the interview of atheist David Berlinksi, Dyer's objections, and some of Fr. Seraphim, I'm feeling very much biased against Darwinism, which if you knew where I come from, would be very surprising.
I find it curious that the majority held position is not against Darwinism, but I don't find it surprising. I hope I can gain some clarity on this. Sorry for the tangent, I just wanted to leave some references here for anyone curious. :)
@@jorge4009 it’s an interesting issue. I see Genesis as both historical and symbolic… the two are not mutually exclusive.
I've mulled over the idea that Satan's fall and Man's Fall are one and the same and his rebellion mirrors over the Snake in the Garden as he sought to sabotage us out of jealousy. To put it one way, we were in some way apart of the angels that fell to earth with him.
Wow...very interesting observation. Human beings are in a way a fallen principality.
Jonathan knows why God should create a certain way
There are entire advancements in Theology that include a pre-mortal spiritual existence. A state in the presence of God before obtaining a mortal body, the Bible alludes to this many times. A place where fallen angels have fallen from. This is the source of conscience, knowledge we obtained before we are born into mortality that give us a gauge for justice and love. The desire and search for love, the indignation at injustice, aren't a programmed constructed knowledge, it is experiential knowledge that we feel impressions of.
This conversation is absolutely fascinating especially as I'm reading Hart's The Experience of God in his discussion of Aristotle's four causes. Our experience of existence primarily is by way of final and formal causes. Only later, and after a deliberate choice of the will, does the evaluation of the efficient causes bringing an object into being come into play. It highlights that, despite what our secular materialist phronema is, the teleologic is the primary way we engage with reality, not the mechanical one.
These ideas of man at the centre and man at the top sure caused a lot of grief to people...
Pattern seeking also means exclusion of things or people outside those patterns.
John Lennox has some precious insight in the sequence of creation
What is the name of the icon of the thumbnail?
I'm also looking for it!
this channel always humble me of how little i understand 🤔
Can The Hospitality of Abraham icon be written with the angel in the middle appearing how Jesus Christ is portrayed in other icons?
Maybe when he talks about fish and birds being made at the same time and the stars, maybe he is referring from the realm of matter where in different realms they don’t have physical bodies or matter
Jesus love you, he died on the cross for you, accept him as your lord and savior he can change everything. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life" (John 3:16)
But you must repent too. From that time Jesus went about preaching and saying, Let your hearts be turned from sin, for the kingdom of heaven is near. (Matthew 4:17):
I just heard them discussing one day is 1000 in gods time. So when you see you one day in the Bible, it really means 1000 years so when he created it didn’t happen in a 24 hour day. I just heard a whole thing on that and it was very interesting. I don’t know if you said anything like that I didn’t hear your whole thing yet, but I listen to someone going through the entire Bible and looking at one day and relating it to other parts of the Bible, where one day was 1000 in Gods time
What’s the painting in the thumbnail??
Man is The Highest Aspiration, he is The Head of Living Animal Itself.
He is Macrocosm, Microcosm and that which is Between.
The Whole Hierarchy of Being belongs to He, from Top to Low.
Facinating
Man is not the antipode to god
But the “ansipode”
The “answer back”
Someone ??? gave me this interpretation of Creation, which I think is pretty good. In the unformed state, God creates Consciousness, In that Consciousness, WE[man are created ]we continue creating downwards. [hierarchy] We can't create up to God!, but we can create. Then one day we think we are as good as God. This oppositional thought creates a tremendous conflict /guilt that we find unbearable and causes us to run from God by creating and creating because we want never to think this unbearable thought again, we want to lose ourselves in the WORLD [possibly we created]. Because up until this point we were aligned with God. Jesus manifested to show us a road back to our 'Godself' as God loves us so much. {Probably God doesn't even know our bad selves, will only recognize his own likeness] But God wants us back for us to experience a peace beyond our understanding.
Christ is not created he has always been with God
@@roseroselyne9045 manifested as a man
A link to that title picture anyone?
Basically, in short, for those who will understand the reference, Jesus Christ is the true "Adam Kadmon". He is the True Man from the very instant of creation. Christ is always Incarnate in the nature He receives from His Virgin Mother from the moment of creation.
Sacrifice- To make sacred.
Death happens. Why not give it meaning?
Good video this.
“Woaw” - Owen Wilson
isnt it heresy to say that man was there with God in the begning i mean, we are not the same and on the same level as Him, by no means at all, this thought for me was actually not good or intuitive at all
Yeah it doesn’t make any sense and seems to exalt man to the same level of god in a way that not only makes man seem godlike but make god seem human like. I know someone can point to Christ as an embodiment of this but it’s just not to be found in the pages of genesis.
Awe...but the artist sees form before content. This is why we look at our art upside down to see it. We don't draw trees. We draw forms of green and smell of earth..
The artist paints relationships, not things. Pays attention to edges and how they play together and interlock. Sees the overall darks and lights as a value pattern. Form is only one small aspect and usually relates only to strictly representational work.
Fish and Birds on the same day. Creation follow of pattern in 3 Vessels, then 3 things to fill said vessels. The 2nd Day is Waters Above and Waters Below. "What is up?" The Sky. "Does stuff come out of the Sky?" Yes, rain, snow. "What are those made out of?" Water. "What color is water?" Blue. "What color is the Sky?" Blue. So what's all that "stuff" in the Sky? It's all blue." .... Oh.
i had no idea what he said
Eternity is crazy. Or time is crazy. Or it’s all crazy. Or seems crazy.
The Mormons have been on this for a while now.
I also just listen to Jonathan Cahn And of course he talks about the gods are back. He wrote a book and you talk about the gods but their back the evil guides and they’re back you said in the form of technology, etc. But they’re back. He also Has a video to President Biden about how he’s opening the doors to certain God. I hope you read that or are you saying it perhaps you should talk to him on a video I would love to hear the both of you talking about it. Does that interest you
Not tryna throw shade but Ben's 'tismo ticks / rocking was kind of distracting.
D&C 93:29
Lol
@@ALLHEART_ :}
@@Drawn-by-Abundance Mormons believe the Holy Spirit failed to preserve the Church from binding itself to heresy which is blasphemy
I think Benjamin has to do a wee.
Is heaven the actual? Surely Actual is when potential and pattern meet?
Might just be a terminological issue.
The whole thing is a terminological issue. A lot of things just got lost in translation into the west.
When did they merge together
Twilight lol
💓
Let "XZY+Q" be coordinates,
let "H" be Humanity,
"I" be Intelligence and "M" represent Man.
•X h( zi q(m) ZI (M)Q zi )H Y•
I was thinking more hierarchical.
God is ever existent, and out of the love between the Holy Trinity comes the creation of ([the] heaven(s) with a myriad of angels. But even the heavens could not contain His love. So out of that came the creation of earth and the cosmos with all of its creatures. Then God wanted to portray His love in all He created, so He made man in His image that would tend the world He created with the help of the angels, (hence why Eve even talked to the serpent/seraphim- it was normal). But the angels began to look down on mankind as inferior beings.
Therefore, these intermediary beings- the angels- sought to overthrow God, and as we know they were cast down. Weather the serpent that tempted Eve was in the Garden already or not is unclear to me, but I do know that in his pride in tempting Adam and Eve, he was further humbled.
***But that begs the question: “Why would God create beings that would rebel against Him and seek to destroy everything He has built?” It was so that He can define throughout all creation, and through creation- what Love is; who He is. He created us to emulate His Divine Nature; especially that of communion/Community/Common;Shared Love between a united people, in a way that mirrors the love between the Holy Trinity.
And that is why this hierarchical view is quite fascinating, because what we end up seeing is that it is in humility that we find salvation. “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” So the serpent loses his hands and feet, to crawl on his belly and eat dust. And we are given the opportunity to repent in our ability to remember our mortality; that we are but dust. And in this remembrance, it draws us toward a humility the serpent can never comprehend- thus can never repent and be saved. For this reason the serpent hates us.
But it is even more fascinating to see that this humus ultimately demonstrated by the very God who created all things and displays His love by the humility of His incarnation and later His death and resurrection. But the victory is not even fully realized until His humility leads to His exaltation in the ascension to the right hand of the Father. Because in His ascension, He elevates our human nature ABOVE that of the middle creatures- the angels. God has now made us “sons of God” and have debased the fallen creatures to eternal fire.
Dude on the left on drugs???
At the start of what .???
The Bible says that... GOD MADE ADAM FROM THE DUST OF THE EARTH ...
after He made the earth , and the animals ...
Did you listen to the whole video?
The creation account ultimately relates to the certain epical advance in the wilderness made remarkable with every New World like our own, and since Columbus.
The epical and finally universal advance of all such New Worlds, is then made equivalent to, and overlaid upon, the same epical advance having established mankind universally already in prehistory.
The 1st day creation of light not only relates to the mastery of fire in prehistory as it was possessed by the Native Americans; but it becomes the even more advanced mastery coming with the Europeans in the 16th century in the form of metallurgy and gunpowder creating cannon and firearms.
The 2nd separation of waters above from below and the creation of Heaven as a firmament in between, relates to the establishment of the past cycle of history coming from Rome as it traced its seaborne origins back to Aeneas and the fall of Troy; even as our own New World and newly universal Civilization and Empire of today as begun by the Anglo-Saxon Protestant colonization begun in the opening decade of the 17th century forms a new stage for the historical advance of the next millennium or overall cycle of history.
The 3rd day separation of the Seas in such previous migrations, and the bringing forth of the dry land or Earth, relates to our new national founding in the 18th century, upon such democratic grasses or amber waves of grain, in relation to such colonial herbs, and fruit trees otherwise of our Founding Fathers (hence, Washington and his cherry tree).
The fourth day, or 19th century creation of the sun, moon, and stars, relate respectively to the democratic and popular rise of Empire beginning with Napoleon, and the following succession of nationalisms, as these grew along the starry constellations of the large metropolises arising with industrialization.
The 5th day or 20th century creation of fish and fowl relate, in turn, to the world leaders then arising, or fished from the depths of the world regions, with the two World Wars and the corporate advent of a mass media, in the first instance of fish. While the fowl then relate to the non-violent forms of religion that no less universally emerged with Ghandi and Martin Luther King Jr.
The sixth day creation of man then intimates the eventual creation over this century of once again wholly gathered and culturally communistic communities like those of Acts 2, as these become the organic or living basis to the blood and body of Christ as the future priesthood and kingdoms to come thereby, just as such a today Roman Catholic priesthood and the previous kingdoms of Western Europe from which we came, grew out of those earlier Christian communities and their apostolic spread ethnographically and world regionally creating the Saints.
The 7th day or 22nd century establishment of a “rest”, relates precisely to the certain millenarian visions and judgments otherwise, in which such epochs of those epical and historic advances to all such New Worlds are then scripturally cast, in relation to just such always certain”generations”, whereby “these are the generations of the heavens and the earth” - or of such cycles or circuits of history formed in between and upon each Old World and New in historic succession and stage - “in the day” - or given generation and breath of the Lord, himself - “that the Lord God created the earth” - as such a certain epical axis and eternally returning stage - “and the heaven” - as the spacious skies of every such New World and finally universal advance.
This, of course, then creates the certain manufacturing, boated, and 500 year old figure of Noah at such heights like our own of today, whereby he builds the certain three stories to an ark of generation in relation to the Lord, of himself, and such a more millenarian command and vision.
Very Heidegger description of perception my dude.
If someone just glanced through a Wikipedia page of Heidegger’s philosophy than yeah, very Heideggerian