Matthieu said once you understand symbolism you can kind of predict what's going to happen in a story. I've noticed that since I've been listening to Johnathan I'm always predicting what's going to happen in books and movies. I didn't know it was related to understanding symbolism. This channel is full of great knowledge.
While I can understand this concept I am still a ways to go. I am very much enjoying this journey of symbolic meaning and learning to integrate it into my theology.
This book deserves so much more recognition, as does this channel. It not only helped me understand my own faith intellectually instead of just intuitively, but it helped me witnessed patterns of sin in my own life that I never would have without this level of understanding. Thank you for helping me realize how I’m destroying myself without noticing it.
Hunor and Magor from Hungarian legends..... - but who knows them except for Hungarians? The brothers who are the complete opposite of Cain and Abel. Brothers who are back-to-back and their arrows pointed outside in different directions.
As a Christian who has been trying to contend with the schism between the ancient and modern perspectives, I've felt very hopeless and insignificant, like a small cork bobbing helplessly about on the surface of great waves in an ocean of thought, much too big for me to absorb or comprehend. Though I had seen a glimpse of the ancient way through Jung's thought, I could never fully commit my trust to him as a guide, since I sensed in him a sort of theistic atheism(which I think to a large extent Jordan has inherited) that I felt would somehow compromise the integrity of my own faith. But now through you two, finally I feel safe exploring both the world of symbology and the world of modern thought, as I can view modern thought and understand it best by looking at it through the lense of ancient thought. It's almost as if I've been walking around my entire life trying to imagine what I look like, having never seen myself in an undistorted reflection, and you two hold up a mirror that I can trust will show me what I truly look like. Thank you so much. I finally understand how the scientific worldview can be nested inside of my religious worldview, not the other way around.
Zach Knox I also recently discovered GKChesterton. His books will definitely help you on your path. Last week, I read Orthodoxy and this week working on The Everlasting Man. Both powerful explications of reality through the lens of Truth.
Tower of Babel is a big key. The Hebrew names n stories were duplicated into 70 or more different languages thus similarities n difference between different religions.
@@sparkshot that's good, I've never looked at the tower of babel in that light. I always looked at the tower negatively, something to think about. Thanks
I have a Mona Lisa smile on my face after reading the first 8 chapters. So much going through my mind. Remember others and myself saying "give me space", "I don't feel grounded". Scripture: "In the beginning was the Word". Jesus = Heaven+Earth, Jesus as Symbol, Jesus as Creation (Meaning combined with Matter), Jesus as The Way (heavenly) The Life (earthly) and the Truth (knowledge).....
I look forward to checking it out. A few years ago I began to notice that if I tried hard to read the Bible through what I call the Gen 1 representation (ANE cosmology) so much more of the Bible made so much more sense. What remained was of course the present assumptions about being on a globe rushing through space around the sun. I think at a deep level this split between the worlds causes dissonance and doubt in ordinary believers which the church does little to address. It really struck me when I met a young man who had "converted" to a flat-earther in order to fully inhabit the Biblical story in order to fully hold at bay the destructive desires that had wrecked his life in earlier years. Conversations with that young man really got me thinking. I knew flat earthers in the developing world and they didn't have an agenda, they simply assumed the world was as it appeared to them. None of this made me a flat-earther but it did get me thinking a lot about perception, representation and how we interact with reality. This was what drew me to JBP early on because some of my watchers (in my heard) began to suggest (not voices. :) ) that JBP's work might be helpful in fixing the schism. Sounds like this book might also be helpful in this area.
Would love to hear your ideas on the book if you read it. I had a wonderful evening this last monday. I was invited by a group of Evangelical Baptists to come talk about symbolism. I found everyone very receptive and excited by the possibility of seeing the Bible and the structures therein as a lens rather than seeing it as a document to analyze with the tools of science and history.
I'm almost done with the book and love it!! I think it would be hard to analyze the Bible with our current tools because of the vast implications of symbolism. It is more real (if you believe in God and/or use Jordan's definition of truth) than corporeal reality, but it humifies the relational, or spiritual, layer at the same time. Its like quantum mechanics vs chemistry but in the opposite direction. I put more of my thoughts and a picture of Paul's Gen 1 representation combined with Matthieu and Jordan's categories on my very new (and not complete yet) blog, if interested. Love you guys! qeoples.com/thoughts-on-the-language-of-creation-by-matthieu-pageau/
The Ogdoad of Khemenu created the World. In the Bible, the world was created TWICE FIRST, for Khem and SECOND for Ishar The Frog and the Snake is duality Nu (nun, Noah) is the watery abyss, the FLOOD. That's it. There is nothing but the flood EXCEPT the Cosmic Mound of Re which is the Isle of Abu (Elephantine) The Famine Stela of Sehel, Djoser's Decree and Petition to Bagoas Kek is the LIGHT, the first mystery and the last (Gospel of the Egyptians and Pistis Sophia) Hehu is INFINITY Khem (Hm) is the "infinite light" (the manifestation, revelation and rebirth from the Abyss) Khemnu (khemenu and Khnum) is "the infinitelight of Nu, the primordial watery abyss" Khemenu is Shomayim too (Gen 1-3 OJB) Kekistan is the" Land of Keki" which is Khemenu to the Isle of Abu, from Heaven to the Cosmic Mound. INCLUDING the City of Thebes, the LAND OF ISHERU EL in the precinct of Mut Kekui is the 12th city of the Book of Gates Rev 21:21 The E1b1b M78 is from Kekistan (Sunclads V12, V13, V22, V65) The Land of Keki - Khemenu (Hermopolis) to the Isle of Abu (Elephantine) This is also the Land of the Empire called Kanem This is also the Land of Khnum (Khn n) and Khanan too The Land of Keki is the Land of Canaan too Kekistan is from Khemenu to the Isle of Abu (Yebu, Yahu, Jebu, Nebu) Ishar (Eve) is Ishtar, Ashmina, Astarte from the East, from Uruk and Lagash Solomon is Salome and Seleme too The E1b1b V32 Somali descend from them Seleme was the mother of Dionysus whose father was Zeus (Chus, Cush) Salome, disciple of Jesus, was mother of Yaakov and Yokhanan, sons of thunder and Zavad (David) Zeus and Dionysus can be pinpointed to Meroe in the Southern Land of Kush (Ethiopia today) When Manasah departed from judaism, he replaced the ARK of the COVENANT with a pagan idol and the priests hid the ark at the Isle of Abu then moved it to Tana Kirkus then to the Church of Mary Salome at Askum. Nut loved Keb (Kek) more than Reeeee (Khnum, Khanan, Canaan) Salome's sons are JaKeb (JaKek) and JoKhanan Mehokek is the lawgiver and the destruction of the Temple happened at Elephantine Nebu is Nibroth, Nembroth, Nibiru, Nimrod and son of Semiramis too Nimrod is Merenre Nemtyemsaf II who came to power after the death of King Pepi Ii His cartouche tells us he ate from the MerenRe (Mary) tribe’s tree and worshiped the snake. His name was Nemt Yam Set. Meroe is forty days journey from Elephantine. Kekui is Annuaki of the Nibiru called the Nubian Nut loved JaKeb more than Re (Kanem, Khanan, Khnum) Mut was the Mistress of Isheru near the City of Thebes, the origin of the E1b1b V12 Jebusite Kekistani The Jebu of Yebu is brother of the E1b1b V13 Nebu of Cyprus (Kushi Kibrus) and the River Hebus too The E1b1b V13 Sons of Nebu clasp their hands and pray Rabbi Khanan taught Rabbi Ashi to. MeHoKek has the horns of Ram and he is called Son of Cham. Kekistan is the Land of Khn n The place of origin of the E1b1b V12 Jebu Kekistani Kek is the First mystery and the last Ham is E1b1b M78 and Canaan is E1b1b V12 and Kush is E1b1b V13. Kush is Kukh Kush is Nubian and Nebu too There was one son sent away as a prince or priest in another land Not a sacrifice in the literal sense but one son went to worship Ishtar in Uruk and Lagash Set is a feminine snake' Kek is Kronus and Kekrops too The Kothorat is Korah and Koran too The swallows and singers and the mother of of Eshmun who is Khnum too Khnum's first born was Sidon Thoth of Khemenu is Lord of Khnum and Eshmun too
Hehu is infinity Hehu is Heru who is Horus (Heru-ur, Har-wer, Haroeris, Horus the Elder as opposed to "Horus the Child") Salome is Seleme, mother of Dionysus and mistress/priestess of Zeus who is Cush Zeus' scorned wife was Hera Jerusalem is Heru+Salome Salome's sons are Jacob and Khanan (James and John) Sons of Thunder, Sons of Zavad The name of John is alternatively known as John the lessor and also Joses (Jokek, Jokhanan) The prefix "Ja" is "Ha" as in "HaNebu" "According to some linguists the name "Semele" is Thraco-Phrygian, derived from a PIE root meaning "earth". Julius Pokorny reconstructs her name from the PIE root *dgem- meaning "earth" and relates it with Thracian Zemele, "mother earth" However, Burkert says that while Semele is "manifestly non-Greek", he also says that "it is no more possible to confirm that Semele is a Thraco-Phrygian word for earth than it is to prove the priority of the Lydian baki- over Bacchus as a name for Dionysos". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semele#Etymology Proving Bacchus is another name for Dionysus is EASY BaChus is 'Son of Chus" Chus is Cush. BaChus is Nimrod too BaChus is Belchus and Inchus too Balchus is Nebu, Nebo, Nubian, Nibroth, Nembroth, Belchus The Christian Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea as early as the early 4th century, noting that the Babylonian historian Berossus in the 3rd century BC had stated that the first king after the flood was Euechoios of Chaldea, identified him with Nimrod. George Syncellus (c. 800) also identified Euechoios with the biblical Nimrod. More recently, Sumerologists have suggested additionally connecting both this Euechoios, and the king of Babylon and grandfather of Gilgamos who appears in the oldest copies of Aelian (c. 200 AD) as Euechoros, with the name of the founder of Uruk known from cuneiform sources as Enmerkar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod#Historical_interpretations In a legend related by Aelian (ca. AD 200), the king of Babylon, Euechoros or Seuechoros (also appearing in many variants as Sevekhoros, earlier Sacchoras, etc.), is said to be the grandfather of Gilgamos, who later becomes king of Babylon (i.e., Gilgamesh of Uruk). Several scholars, most notably Albright and have suggested that this "Seuechoros" or "Euechoros" is moreover to be identified with Enmerkar of Uruk, as well as the Euechoios named by Berossus as being the first king of Chaldea and Assyria. This last name Euechous (also appearing as Evechius, and in many other variants) has long been identified with Nimrod “The Constitutions of the Freemasons (1734)”, states Nimrod founded the monarchy of Shinar and Assyria after the dispersion building cities such as Ereck (Uruk), Accad (Akkad) and Calneb in Shinar and afterwards built Nineveh, Rehoboth, Caleb and Rhesin. Additionally, they state Nimrod’s “proper name was Belus and afterwards was worshipped as a God by many nations under the Name of Bel or Baal and became the Bacchus of the Ancients or Bar Chus, the Son of Chus.” What of the story of Nimrod and Menere-Nemtyemsaf II? The E1b1b V13 Nebu Kekistani, sons of Kush, settled in Thrance; The parts which they occupied, where upon the Hebrus, about Edonia, Sithonia, and Mount Haemus. These are the Bosnian pyramid builders They came from Meroe in the South and from Thebes in The Land of Keki and Khanan too The Den of Cacus is properly Ca-Chus, the cavern or temple of Chus of which the poets and later historians represent as a shepherd and son of Vulcan. Many ancient divinities whose rites and history had any relation to Ur in Chaldea, are said to be children of Vulcan; and oftentimes to been born of fire Herodotus, The Histories Book 2, A. D. Godley, Ed., Online Gutenberg Project "Beyond Elephantine, as one travels inland, the land rises. Here one must pass with the boat roped on both sides as men harness an ox; and if the rope breaks, the boat will be carried away by the strength of the current. This part of the river is a four days' journey by boat, and the Nile here is twisty just as the Maeander; a distance of twelve schoeni must be passed in the foregoing manner. After that, you come to a level plain, where there is an island in the Nile, called Takhompso. The country above Elephantine now begins to be inhabited by Ethiopians: half the people of the island are Ethiopians, and half Egyptians. Near the island is a great lake, on whose shores live nomadic Ethiopians. After crossing this, you come to the stream of the Nile, which empties into this lake. Then you disembark and journey along the river bank for forty days; for there are sharp projecting rocks in the Nile and many reefs, through which no boat can pass. Having traversed this part in forty days as I have said, you take boat again and so travel for twelve days until you come to a great city called Meroe, which is said to be the capital of all Ethiopia. The people of the place worship no other gods but Zeus and sus; these they greatly honor, and they have a place of divination sacred to Zeus; they send out armies whenever and wherever this god through his oracle commands them. P30. www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D2&force=y
Your brother's decision to use images and models to explain these concepts was incredibly wise. The problem of language and communication is a serious contributing factor to misunderstanding symbolism, religion etc. and often symbols are based on shapes. Biblical narratives with all of the ancient Jewish names can make an important cosmic pattern seem like a Star Wars fan fic because we can't get past the words to understand the meaning. You should consider using more models like in your video on Moses and the Cosmic Mountain. It was a much easier video to follow. Love the content, keep it up.
Graduated religious studies major. Can confirm it is feminism: Mary Daly's deconstruction of patriarchy was required for a 300 (400?)-level course. It caused me so much confusion that I completely lost faith in myself and others until recently, with help from generous intelligent people like the Pageaus. Because Daly and the transqueer agenda remains so prevalent in modern universities as the dominant narrative advocating for heterogeneity in all aspects of life - especially our new globalized economies - I generally perceive homosexuality to be inherently chaotic and destructive of stable culture and civilization. But without the symbols in Christ, I wouldn't feel comfortable standing up for myself against the postmodern bullies I studied alongside.
Luckily I never made it that far into their re-education program... At one point, I took a graduate level class which basically consisted of reading Ezekiel in Hebrew and "analyzing" (I'm using that word very lightly here) its contents. Even that class was nothing but a front for feminist theory. As soon as I realized this, I decided to keep my insights to myself while taking note of the insane level of subversion and indoctrination at work.
It is difficult enough to find those taking an unbiased approach to honest exploration and pursuit of truth - without reliance upon any establishment institution that is unashamedly promoting its own propaganda. Wasted money, time and attention. Guaranteed to get people lost, if they aren’t already confused upon arrival. The pioneer’s path is often solitary, rough traveling and hones survival skills. The trails less traveled are not for the faint of heart. Fellow travelers tend to be rare and highly valued.
Finding out that religious studies was about power politic, feminism and marxism, makes a lot of sense now. Why I rejected religion thinking it was something it was not, at all.
God, Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau and now Matthieu Pageau bring me back to my faith. Something was missing in my life. Thank you so much, I don't know if you guys are aware of what you are doing in the world! God bless you all
At first glance I thought this was a book on Norse religion. Shows you how universal these symbols are, and yet they don't even teach these things in school. Thanks for posting Jonathan, I'm really excited to get a copy of this book!
There is definitely more in common between the Bible and any other tradition in the world than there is between the Bible and modern materialistic science.
Nearly finished the book. Hope to be able to finish it this weekend. Great stuff! A must read, really. What I'd find very interesting is to have a Q and A with Matthieu about his book in a few weeks after people have read it, so we can send in some questions and get even more seizures.
Too late guys I’m going “insane” just listening to this talk. Just ordered the book cant wait for the guaranteed transformation. I’m getting queasy with the implications of what you are saying.
It's pretty great. Former atheist. This book is good. Though I'm glad I had Jordan's introduction to this kind of material. I am pushing the edge of my learning reading this book atm.
What a TREAT to watch these two brothers share the book release occasion… a mini reunion on their shared fascination and intellectual preoccupation with this wonderful deep universal subject. I love how they cracked each other up! and how they signed off laughing about their personality differences in the pursuit. Absolute gem.
I just got the book ... can't set it down. Very good material to read, especially because my materialistic mind set has limited me when confronting biblical text and other material, while your book has opened my eyes. From Chapter 8 and Chapter 9 is where things started to make sense to me. I find your writing to be very effective and to the point. I wish I had this material when I was a so called born again Christian. My Western, materialist, literalist attitude towards the scriptures, while a comfort at first, just caused me frustration and cynicism, and my later adoption to agnosticism. Thank you for the book.
Such a pleasure to hear you two guys, suddenly to find myself in a sane world. And so good to hear Matthieu is a science lover and mathematician. I've just ordered the book so I hope it doesn't drive me insane (again; I've spent quite a lot of my life like that). If it does I could try suing Matthieu for every penny he's got, but perhaps that wouldn't get me very far..... Keep it up, both of you. Your posts Jonathan are a frequent source of insight, encouragement, and that thing you (both) radiate; can't think of the word....
Matthieu, thank you so much for the content. I have purchased your book and look very much forward to receiving it to begin a journey. Of what I hear from the sliver of online content you have produced, the world needs you to speak, and loudly. Please consider more abundant content. Again, we need you to speak Matthieu.-- Jesse
Time being associated with chaos is another example of science coming into alignment with ancient cosmology: time is synonymous with increasing entropy (movement toward disorder/chaos).
The book is absolutely superb. I am enjoying it and learning so much. Like so many of the best books it explains to you things you felt you already knew intuitively and then expands those ideas to depths you hadn't considered. An incredible achievement!
Just finished reading the sample on Kindle, I'm sold! The book describes complex subjects so clearly and the diagrams help a lot. I've been waiting for something like this for years. Thank you!!!
Love all these videos, and hearing from your brother who also has great insight into symbolism and scripture. I would love to see your other brother Daniel on also. He is a legendary Canadian skateboarder, a believer, and a pastor on the west coast of B.C. People would love your conversation. Bring on Daniel.🙂
I bought this book the day it came out and I’ve only just gotten around to reading it. I’m at page 200 now and I’m at the point where I can interpret the examples from the Bible before I read Matthieu’s! My mind is thoroughly blown.
The cross-pollination of The Lord of Spirits podcast with The Symbolic World strikes again!! I have been following you, my brother in Christ, since JBP made you available to us back in 2016, 2017. I am reviewing and going over these seminal videos again, to water and tend to what was planted a few years ago. New neural synapse connections, new pathways, new branches, new awareness, fresh growth, broader mind. A perilous and beautiful journey. Thank you.
I've been waiting for this book for like a year! Matthieu has an ability to communicate these ideas in a way I can understand. I'm going to order it on Friday. I hope it does well. God bless!
Thankyou for this video. Your symbolic interpretations have always given me means to look at ideas and concepts in a new light, allowing me to diversify my daydreams and inner monologue. I will definitely be picking up this book, looking forward to really developing this symbolic lense.
Thank you! Your explanation is much needed. I love both science and Christianity. They don’t contradict each other They both are knowledge of inner and outer life. I will share it with my Orthodox Church community. Looking forward to read your book.
Crazy watching this in 2021 and seeing them talk about how religion dying out is gonna be replaced by something else that's worse when that's exactly what culminated last year. When Pageau said this is Weimar Germany we're at right now, right on the precipice of disaster looming, and this video came out 3 years ago... chills
@Jonathan Pageau at 35:14 Matthieu talks about going insane when you change your lens of the way you're viewing the world. I know you have reservations about psychedelics and drug use. But my lens about Revelation the Bible in general was drastically changed the night I listened to the entire book of Revelation while very very high on a sativa strain of marijuana. I don't think what I did was advisable and I don't know that I would recommend it as I quickly became quite frantic and almost crazy (looking back I'm humiliated by some of the things I said in conversations with people I respect). I was tying all sorts of things together that should not be put together. But it is what led me to you, and understanding the Bible and reality through symbolism. Thank you for your work. I'm very much looking forward to reading God's dog also thank you for introducing me to your brother I hope to get his book soon. I genuinely thank God for guys like you that help make sense of the madness. 👍🤙
It's amazing how much ahead of the curve Sheldrake was - I loved 'A New Science of Life' and 'The Presence of the Past'. In some ways, the paradigm-shifting process going on now is partly a result of morphic resonance? I don't know
Me neither but it gives meaning to the notion that 'the truth is out there'. You might be right too about the build-up reaching a tipping point (I think that's what they call it). Good old Rupert!
Great book. Hegel says that a 'symbol' is a sign which not only refers to something [other than itself], but one which also 'resembles' or exemplifies the essence of that [other thing] to which it refers. For example, the English word, 'tree' is an unsymbolic sign which simply refers to plants with branches or abstract branching structures such as 'family trees' and the like; but there is nothing directly 'tree-like' about the word 'tree.' On the other hand, the biblical motif of the 'Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," for example, is in this case a proper symbol because it both refers to and itself is a sensuous image of the branching system of moral cognition rendered intelligible to rational self-consciousness. The tree of knowledge really is 'like a tree' in that it partakes of the same logical branching structure that the morphology of a plant does. Generally speaking then, symbols have a natural relation to the ideas which they represent, whereas signs are blank indicators which are the product of arbitrary convention or contingent history. Now, since symbols are direct examples of the meaning or essence which they embody, even particular material things that exist for the senses can function as symbols of universal intelligible principles which are otherwise not directly sensible. There can therefore be non-actual 'symbols of symbols' or a syllogistic chain of symbols which finally terminates at an actual essence. For instance, a picture of a rose only symbolizes the rose plant, but the rose plant symbolizes the actual love one has for one's wife, say. Or similarly, a smiley face emoji merely symbolizes a person's smiling face, but this in turn symbolizes one's actual feeling of happiness. And finally, a crucifix can be taken as a mere symbol for Christ's death on the cross, but the act of 'this' man's death on 'this' cross itself symbolizes the actual fact that 'this' particular individual is one with the universal essence, that the finite resolves itself in the infinite; i.e., that humanity is united with God.
This is a very well constructed thought. I copied and pasted it, which I have never done for a youtube comment, so thank you for sharing. I have been looking for a good book or resource for coming to terms with the historical authenticity of the bodily resurrection of Christ - do you know of any? Maybe it sounds strange, but I sometimes feel like the historicity of Jesus almost undermines the significance of the story/idea. I can agree to it in the same way I agree to the truth of Noah and of Adam and Eve, but when I ask myself, "Do I think though that Jesus actually came back to life?" I find that I don't. I'm not sure if that's really a problem for me, in the same way that not believing that Adam and Eve were real isn't a problem. Anyway, no worries if you don't have any recommendations, you just seemed to be well-read on the subject.
@@BooBarr, the symbolism of the Bible does not mean the persons or events did not happen. The symbol and its meaning come from actually persons and events. Jesus died and came back to life. The Bible's narrative is how we make sense or spot the meaning of what Christ as a living breathing symbol is.
Just found your channel because of a Jordan Peterson short... and I am running to Amazon this minute to buy the book... Will be watching more of this thread, and will let you know my thoughts soon!!! THANK YOU!!!!
As a muslim woman who is interested in different versions of cosmology, I've enjoyed this a lot! Please keep making videos with your brother. I'm sure he has a lot of interesting things to talk about. Peace be upon you all!
Wow, the discussion you guys had in this video planted a bomb in my mind that exploded a few days later. This is a whole separate level of thought for me! I need to get this book.
I really respect the attempt to join science and spirituality here. It seems very intelligent and a way forward to me. It seems to me that there is clearly truth in the Bible just as there is truth in contemporary scientific discovery. I also agree that the rise of totalitarianism was a spiritual malady and can't be understood merely in terms of physical suffering or inequality.
I just ordered the book. I find it interesting that much is said about the mistake of using materialism to interpret the bible, yet the very author of the book I just ordered discusses categorizing the initial genesis passages using a mathematical mindset! Could it be that our pre-science ancestors where in fact materialists, it's just that they had no consciousness of being a "materialist"? We've always had a scientific, mathematical, abstract part of our lizard brain, that only technology (tools and toys) could bring to the surface of our being? Matthieu thinks he is interpreting the scriptures outside of materialism but he will always interpret the world through a materialist eyes. He can't help it. I've watched your videos for awhile. I've always found the brothers Pageau discussions fascinating and informative. The artist and the mathematician ... a dance that has caused me to question and grow. You guys are great. Thanks.
Something I forgot to mention in this talk, and that I regret not mentioning, is that my standard of interpretation is traditional commentary, either early Christian or Jewish. I used a mathematical mindset in the sense that I tried to use the very cosmological categories presented in the creation narrative as "axioms" (so to speak) to interpret the rest of the Bible. In doing so, my interpretations matched ancient Biblical interpretations (especially from Jewish sources) which to me was confirmation that my insights were valid.
Thank you. I look forward to your book. To me mathematics provides a certain purity, a certain clarity, to even the figurative aspects of the world. I used to look down on the subjective and the figurative, but now I believe our pre-science ancestors where just as "scientific" with the limited tools they had. You and your brother have taught me that.
I just bought the book on Amazon and I'm really looking forward to the effect it will have on me. Thank you for your work, I cant wait to converge in thought when the time is right...
Please please please bring him on your channel more. He may not want to make his own videos, but if you can drag him into doing more videos with you that would be amazing. You guys compliment each other so well when discussing these things.
Just finished reading chapter 80 on wine and fermentation. I have been baking true sourdough bread for my family for several years now. I feel compelled to continue bread baking, even as I am working outside the home now. I would be interested in learning more about the symbolism of bread and other foods. Thank you!
What a great book (I'm at page 200 at the moment). It starts well and then gets better and better. The section about space and time will blow your mind!
4:17 reminds me of how learning about screenwriting and story structure forever changes how you watch films or shows, and in some sense ruins them as you can guess what’s going to happen or where you’re at in the story much more correctly than most-all the behind the curtain has been revealed and becomes salient-yet when it’s something well done then i reckon you get even more pleasure and/or meaning than most from it as seeing the threads only adds to the awe and immersion and allows the theme or symbolism to hit and impact deeper.
Excellent book Matthieu. Many of the basic concepts fit quite well with the narrative found in Genesis and the Torah for that matter. I did find your explanation of Ezekiel's vision wanting though. You point out how mankind is the mediator between heaven and earth, and how the spirit manifests in the physical, and how God breathed Neshama into Adam. Well, have you ever considered that that is exactly what Ezekiel is seeing, the encampment in the wilderness with it's four faces? Ezekiel is looking northwards and the 'vehicle' upon which Yehovah is 'riding' is Israel being directed by His Neshama. Directly in front, at the south of the encampment is the face of a man (Reuben/Red), to the east, the face of the lion (Judah), west is the ox (Ephraim) and north, the eagle (Dan). If you can visualize this, you may also be able to see the wheel within the wheel, the inner circle being the Levites. I would love to hear any comments you might have on this for I would imagine with this little insight, and your ability to see these symbolisms for what they are, you may see deeper into this than I presently have.
Just earlier this morning I've came across your video on Symbolism of the Tree which lead me to this. I gotta say I share Matthieu's sentiment on the reconciliation of these two worlds. Though I feel if people can just look at the big picture its really not that difficult to reconcile them but unfortunately, or fortunately, we all don't think alike nor notice the same things. Just a long winded way of saying that I'm definitely going to pickup this book and delve in it. Keep up the great content guys. GB.
After listening to your conversation, I had to order Mathieu's book. Too bad that standard shipping to Finland takes a month... I'm looking forward to reading it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Beware of hubris brother Jonathan. It often manifests as the intention of not wanting to disrespect. Which in itself is an assumption that you will. And is the result of thinking you can. Reasonable people don’t mind being disrespected unintentionally. Reasonable people do mind being protected. In trying to avoid the pattern you are robbing both yourself and the other of the experience, stunting growth. Thank you for your videos🙏 Understanding the foundation of our reality is paramount to Gods new kingdom.
Amazing video. I will buy the book - but the stake is high. I'm considered weird now. And now with the disclaimer "don't go crazy" anything could happen :-) The name of cognitive/computer scientist is Donald Hoffman not John Hoffman.
The description of truth reminds me very much of the Correspondence Theory of truth popular amongst analytic philosophers (e.g. Russell and Moore); especially the later formulations which hold falsehood to consist in miscorrespondence to facts.
What convinces me there is something real there, is that I came to many of the exact same conclusions by revisiting the bible by myself, noticing there were these patterns. I began looking into Kabbalah and judaism because of that, and I saw that I could almost predict what the symbolic interpretation was, so consistent were the patterns
I think I'm going to enjoy this book. I just finished Finnegans Wake and now I'm reading a book (The Curse of Kabbalah) to tell me what it was about. Joyce portrayed space/time by personalising it as two fighting twin brothers who complete each other. He used Giambattista Vico's cycles of history to illustrate the beginning, growth, demise and re-growth of society over time. Matthieu's focus on the Old Testament should be a fascinating read in its own right, and hopefully shed some more light on what Joyce was saying.
Rudolf Steiner also described this over 100 years ago and it's beautiful to see you conveying these ideas in modern language. The language of Anthroposophy is inaccessible to many but I think it's meaning matches that of your book
One thing I appreciated about art school was the way they taught how to interpret a work based on the proper context. This is in stark opposition to the post modern method of juxtaposition, and I think we have needed a corrective lens through which to view these traditions. This book makes a large and insightful step towards realizing that worldview.
Vatican II addressed the issue of religious similarity fairly well. As you said: Christ is the truth, it is likely he will manifest in partial ways elsewhere, but the fullness of truth is in Christ. It's a shame this led to washy ecumenism. (Point 2. www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html)
Great interview, lads. I look forward to reading the book. I'd be interested to know if Matthieu is influenced by Guénonian traditionalist thought at all.
@@matthieupageau9537 hi Matthieu! This is such an old comment that I seriously doubt you'll even see my reply, but might as well try lol! Thank you so much for your book, I started it a month ago and I'm just about to finish it (I'm currently at chapter 74), it has helped me a lot in understanding the symbolism in the Bible, and I was wondering if you're planning on writing a sequel focused on the New Testament or exploring different aspects of Biblical symbolism
Matthieu said once you understand symbolism you can kind of predict what's going to happen in a story. I've noticed that since I've been listening to Johnathan I'm always predicting what's going to happen in books and movies. I didn't know it was related to understanding symbolism. This channel is full of great knowledge.
i learned the world was round once i heard it spinning. bienvenue
I had this happen while reading the Dune trilogy!
While I can understand this concept I am still a ways to go. I am very much enjoying this journey of symbolic meaning and learning to integrate it into my theology.
the closest thing to true wisdom
@@deathfalcon602 it's actually 6 books, and they're ALL awesome. Keep reading, they are some kickass stories.
Never gonna give you up [heaven], never gona let you down [earth], never gonna round and round [time] and desert you [space]
The best part is God started the Bible in Hebrew with “bet” (pronounced bait) 😂
Astounding..hehe
Never been Rick-Rolled that way! 😂
Did you... just Rick roll a book? Perfectly?
This book deserves so much more recognition, as does this channel. It not only helped me understand my own faith intellectually instead of just intuitively, but it helped me witnessed patterns of sin in my own life that I never would have without this level of understanding. Thank you for helping me realize how I’m destroying myself without noticing it.
Can you tell us more?
Top 5 Brothers
5. Manning Bros.
4. Wright Bros.
3. Cain & Abel
2. Super Mario Bros
1. Pageau Bros.
You Pageaus stand in on the spot the Wachowski bros. left ; ). Also, I think the Brothers Pageau has a better sounding ring to it.
to your point I nominate the Brothers Grimm for #5... or even #2.
Dam Daniel very witty of you 😇😈
The Good Weinstein Brothers (Eric and Bret), not the Bad Weinstein Brothers (Harvey and Bob)
Hunor and Magor from Hungarian legends..... - but who knows them except for Hungarians? The brothers who are the complete opposite of Cain and Abel. Brothers who are back-to-back and their arrows pointed outside in different directions.
This book saved my faith. Godbless it.
Same!
As a Christian who has been trying to contend with the schism between the ancient and modern perspectives, I've felt very hopeless and insignificant, like a small cork bobbing helplessly about on the surface of great waves in an ocean of thought, much too big for me to absorb or comprehend. Though I had seen a glimpse of the ancient way through Jung's thought, I could never fully commit my trust to him as a guide, since I sensed in him a sort of theistic atheism(which I think to a large extent Jordan has inherited) that I felt would somehow compromise the integrity of my own faith.
But now through you two, finally I feel safe exploring both the world of symbology and the world of modern thought, as I can view modern thought and understand it best by looking at it through the lense of ancient thought. It's almost as if I've been walking around my entire life trying to imagine what I look like, having never seen myself in an undistorted reflection, and you two hold up a mirror that I can trust will show me what I truly look like. Thank you so much. I finally understand how the scientific worldview can be nested inside of my religious worldview, not the other way around.
Zach Knox I also recently discovered GKChesterton. His books will definitely help you on your path. Last week, I read Orthodoxy and this week working on The Everlasting Man. Both powerful explications of reality through the lens of Truth.
Tower of Babel is a big key. The Hebrew names n stories were duplicated into 70 or more different languages thus similarities n difference between different religions.
Beautifully articulated
Felt this
@@sparkshot that's good, I've never looked at the tower of babel in that light.
I always looked at the tower negatively, something to think about.
Thanks
Jonathan, we REALLY need another podcast of you and your brother! Well, past due!
I have a Mona Lisa smile on my face after reading the first 8 chapters. So much going through my mind. Remember others and myself saying "give me space", "I don't feel grounded". Scripture: "In the beginning was the Word". Jesus = Heaven+Earth, Jesus as Symbol, Jesus as Creation (Meaning combined with Matter), Jesus as The Way (heavenly) The Life (earthly) and the Truth (knowledge).....
Behold, how good and pleasant it is when brothers dwell in unity!
One of my favorite praise prayers 🙌
I look forward to checking it out. A few years ago I began to notice that if I tried hard to read the Bible through what I call the Gen 1 representation (ANE cosmology) so much more of the Bible made so much more sense. What remained was of course the present assumptions about being on a globe rushing through space around the sun. I think at a deep level this split between the worlds causes dissonance and doubt in ordinary believers which the church does little to address. It really struck me when I met a young man who had "converted" to a flat-earther in order to fully inhabit the Biblical story in order to fully hold at bay the destructive desires that had wrecked his life in earlier years. Conversations with that young man really got me thinking. I knew flat earthers in the developing world and they didn't have an agenda, they simply assumed the world was as it appeared to them. None of this made me a flat-earther but it did get me thinking a lot about perception, representation and how we interact with reality. This was what drew me to JBP early on because some of my watchers (in my heard) began to suggest (not voices. :) ) that JBP's work might be helpful in fixing the schism.
Sounds like this book might also be helpful in this area.
Would love to hear your ideas on the book if you read it. I had a wonderful evening this last monday. I was invited by a group of Evangelical Baptists to come talk about symbolism. I found everyone very receptive and excited by the possibility of seeing the Bible and the structures therein as a lens rather than seeing it as a document to analyze with the tools of science and history.
I'm almost done with the book and love it!! I think it would be hard to analyze the Bible with our current tools because of the vast implications of symbolism. It is more real (if you believe in God and/or use Jordan's definition of truth) than corporeal reality, but it humifies the relational, or spiritual, layer at the same time. Its like quantum mechanics vs chemistry but in the opposite direction.
I put more of my thoughts and a picture of Paul's Gen 1 representation combined with Matthieu and Jordan's categories on my very new (and not complete yet) blog, if interested. Love you guys!
qeoples.com/thoughts-on-the-language-of-creation-by-matthieu-pageau/
The Ogdoad of Khemenu created the World.
In the Bible, the world was created TWICE
FIRST, for Khem and SECOND for Ishar
The Frog and the Snake is duality
Nu (nun, Noah) is the watery abyss, the FLOOD. That's it. There is nothing but the flood
EXCEPT the Cosmic Mound of Re which is the Isle of Abu (Elephantine)
The Famine Stela of Sehel, Djoser's Decree and Petition to Bagoas
Kek is the LIGHT, the first mystery and the last (Gospel of the Egyptians and Pistis Sophia)
Hehu is INFINITY
Khem (Hm) is the "infinite light" (the manifestation, revelation and rebirth from the Abyss)
Khemnu (khemenu and Khnum) is "the infinitelight of Nu, the primordial watery abyss"
Khemenu is Shomayim too (Gen 1-3 OJB)
Kekistan is the" Land of Keki" which is Khemenu to the Isle of Abu, from Heaven to the Cosmic Mound.
INCLUDING the City of Thebes, the LAND OF ISHERU EL in the precinct of Mut
Kekui is the 12th city of the Book of Gates Rev 21:21
The E1b1b M78 is from Kekistan (Sunclads V12, V13, V22, V65)
The Land of Keki - Khemenu (Hermopolis) to the Isle of Abu (Elephantine)
This is also the Land of the Empire called Kanem
This is also the Land of Khnum (Khn n) and Khanan too
The Land of Keki is the Land of Canaan too
Kekistan is from Khemenu to the Isle of Abu (Yebu, Yahu, Jebu, Nebu)
Ishar (Eve) is Ishtar, Ashmina, Astarte from the East, from Uruk and Lagash
Solomon is Salome and Seleme too
The E1b1b V32 Somali descend from them
Seleme was the mother of Dionysus whose father was Zeus (Chus, Cush)
Salome, disciple of Jesus, was mother of Yaakov and Yokhanan, sons of thunder and Zavad (David)
Zeus and Dionysus can be pinpointed to Meroe in the Southern Land of Kush (Ethiopia today)
When Manasah departed from judaism, he replaced the ARK of the COVENANT with a pagan idol and the priests hid the ark at the Isle of Abu then moved it to Tana Kirkus then to the Church of Mary Salome at Askum.
Nut loved Keb (Kek) more than Reeeee (Khnum, Khanan, Canaan)
Salome's sons are JaKeb (JaKek) and JoKhanan
Mehokek is the lawgiver and the destruction of the Temple happened at Elephantine
Nebu is Nibroth, Nembroth, Nibiru, Nimrod and son of Semiramis too
Nimrod is Merenre Nemtyemsaf II who came to power after the death of King Pepi Ii
His cartouche tells us he ate from the MerenRe (Mary) tribe’s tree and worshiped the snake. His name was Nemt Yam Set.
Meroe is forty days journey from Elephantine.
Kekui is Annuaki of the Nibiru called the Nubian
Nut loved JaKeb more than Re (Kanem, Khanan, Khnum)
Mut was the Mistress of Isheru near the City of Thebes, the origin of the E1b1b V12 Jebusite Kekistani
The Jebu of Yebu is brother of the E1b1b V13 Nebu of Cyprus (Kushi Kibrus) and the River Hebus too
The E1b1b V13 Sons of Nebu clasp their hands and pray
Rabbi Khanan taught Rabbi Ashi to.
MeHoKek has the horns of Ram and he is called Son of Cham.
Kekistan is the Land of Khn n
The place of origin of the E1b1b V12 Jebu Kekistani
Kek is the First mystery and the last
Ham is E1b1b M78 and Canaan is E1b1b V12 and Kush is E1b1b V13.
Kush is Kukh
Kush is Nubian and Nebu too
There was one son sent away as a prince or priest in another land
Not a sacrifice in the literal sense but one son went to worship Ishtar in Uruk and Lagash
Set is a feminine snake'
Kek is Kronus and Kekrops too
The Kothorat is Korah and Koran too
The swallows and singers and the mother of of Eshmun who is Khnum too
Khnum's first born was Sidon
Thoth of Khemenu is Lord of Khnum and Eshmun too
Hehu is infinity
Hehu is Heru who is Horus (Heru-ur, Har-wer, Haroeris, Horus the Elder as opposed to "Horus the Child")
Salome is Seleme, mother of Dionysus and mistress/priestess of Zeus who is Cush
Zeus' scorned wife was Hera
Jerusalem is Heru+Salome
Salome's sons are Jacob and Khanan (James and John) Sons of Thunder, Sons of Zavad
The name of John is alternatively known as John the lessor and also Joses (Jokek, Jokhanan)
The prefix "Ja" is "Ha" as in "HaNebu"
"According to some linguists the name "Semele" is Thraco-Phrygian, derived from a PIE root meaning "earth". Julius Pokorny reconstructs her name from the PIE root *dgem- meaning "earth" and relates it with Thracian Zemele, "mother earth" However, Burkert says that while Semele is "manifestly non-Greek", he also says that "it is no more possible to confirm that Semele is a Thraco-Phrygian word for earth than it is to prove the priority of the Lydian baki- over Bacchus as a name for Dionysos".
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semele#Etymology
Proving Bacchus is another name for Dionysus is EASY
BaChus is 'Son of Chus" Chus is Cush. BaChus is Nimrod too
BaChus is Belchus and Inchus too
Balchus is Nebu, Nebo, Nubian, Nibroth, Nembroth, Belchus
The Christian Bishop Eusebius of Caesarea as early as the early 4th century, noting that the Babylonian historian Berossus in the 3rd century BC had stated that the first king after the flood was Euechoios of Chaldea, identified him with Nimrod.
George Syncellus (c. 800) also identified Euechoios with the biblical Nimrod.
More recently, Sumerologists have suggested additionally connecting both this Euechoios, and the king of Babylon and grandfather of Gilgamos who appears in the oldest copies of Aelian (c. 200 AD) as Euechoros, with the name of the founder of Uruk known from cuneiform sources as Enmerkar. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimrod#Historical_interpretations
In a legend related by Aelian (ca. AD 200), the king of Babylon, Euechoros or Seuechoros (also appearing in many variants as Sevekhoros, earlier Sacchoras, etc.), is said to be the grandfather of Gilgamos, who later becomes king of Babylon (i.e., Gilgamesh of Uruk). Several scholars, most notably Albright and have suggested that this "Seuechoros" or "Euechoros" is moreover to be identified with Enmerkar of Uruk, as well as the Euechoios named by Berossus as being the first king of Chaldea and Assyria. This last name Euechous (also appearing as Evechius, and in many other variants) has long been identified with Nimrod
“The Constitutions of the Freemasons (1734)”, states Nimrod founded the monarchy of Shinar and Assyria after the dispersion building cities such as Ereck (Uruk), Accad (Akkad) and Calneb in Shinar and afterwards built Nineveh, Rehoboth, Caleb and Rhesin. Additionally, they state Nimrod’s “proper name was Belus and afterwards was worshipped as a God by many nations under the Name of Bel or Baal and became the Bacchus of the Ancients or Bar Chus, the Son of Chus.”
What of the story of Nimrod and Menere-Nemtyemsaf II?
The E1b1b V13 Nebu Kekistani, sons of Kush, settled in Thrance; The parts which they occupied, where upon the Hebrus, about Edonia, Sithonia, and Mount Haemus.
These are the Bosnian pyramid builders
They came from Meroe in the South and from Thebes in The Land of Keki and Khanan too
The Den of Cacus is properly Ca-Chus, the cavern or temple of Chus of which the poets and later historians represent as a shepherd and son of Vulcan. Many ancient divinities whose rites and history had any relation to Ur in Chaldea, are said to be children of Vulcan; and oftentimes to been born of fire
Herodotus, The Histories Book 2, A. D. Godley, Ed., Online Gutenberg Project
"Beyond Elephantine, as one travels inland, the land rises. Here one must pass with the boat roped on both sides as men harness an ox; and if the rope breaks, the boat will be carried away by the strength of the current. This part of the river is a four days' journey by boat, and the Nile here is twisty just as the Maeander; a distance of twelve schoeni must be passed in the foregoing manner. After that, you come to a level plain, where there is an island in the Nile, called Takhompso. The country above Elephantine now begins to be inhabited by Ethiopians: half the people of the island are Ethiopians, and half Egyptians. Near the island is a great lake, on whose shores live nomadic Ethiopians. After crossing this, you come to the stream of the Nile, which empties into this lake. Then you disembark and journey along the river bank for forty days; for there are sharp projecting rocks in the Nile and many reefs, through which no boat can pass. Having traversed this part in forty days as I have said, you take boat again and so travel for twelve days until you come to a great city called Meroe, which is said to be the capital of all Ethiopia. The people of the place worship no other gods but Zeus and sus; these they greatly honor, and they have a place of divination sacred to Zeus; they send out armies whenever and wherever this god through his oracle commands them. P30.
www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.01.0126%3Abook%3D2&force=y
Kekistani Patriot, I love you. Please share your point?
Your brother's decision to use images and models to explain these concepts was incredibly wise. The problem of language and communication is a serious contributing factor to misunderstanding symbolism, religion etc. and often symbols are based on shapes. Biblical narratives with all of the ancient Jewish names can make an important cosmic pattern seem like a Star Wars fan fic because we can't get past the words to understand the meaning.
You should consider using more models like in your video on Moses and the Cosmic Mountain. It was a much easier video to follow. Love the content, keep it up.
I LOVE BOTH OF YOU BROTHERS!
YOU HELP US UNDERSTAND!
Please keep updating!
It is now 2023!
Keep them coming!
Graduated religious studies major. Can confirm it is feminism: Mary Daly's deconstruction of patriarchy was required for a 300 (400?)-level course. It caused me so much confusion that I completely lost faith in myself and others until recently, with help from generous intelligent people like the Pageaus. Because Daly and the transqueer agenda remains so prevalent in modern universities as the dominant narrative advocating for heterogeneity in all aspects of life - especially our new globalized economies - I generally perceive homosexuality to be inherently chaotic and destructive of stable culture and civilization. But without the symbols in Christ, I wouldn't feel comfortable standing up for myself against the postmodern bullies I studied alongside.
Luckily I never made it that far into their re-education program...
At one point, I took a graduate level class which basically consisted of reading Ezekiel in Hebrew and "analyzing" (I'm using that word very lightly here) its contents. Even that class was nothing but a front for feminist theory. As soon as I realized this, I decided to keep my insights to myself while taking note of the insane level of subversion and indoctrination at work.
It is difficult enough to find those taking an unbiased approach to honest exploration and pursuit of truth - without reliance upon any establishment institution that is unashamedly promoting its own propaganda. Wasted money, time and attention. Guaranteed to get people lost, if they aren’t already confused upon arrival.
The pioneer’s path is often solitary, rough traveling and hones survival skills. The trails less traveled are not for the faint of heart. Fellow travelers tend to be rare and highly valued.
Respect to the Pageau men 👏 👏👏👏👏
Wow- just bought the book. Really looking forward to reading it! Thank you gentlemen
Finding out that religious studies was about power politic, feminism and marxism, makes a lot of sense now. Why I rejected religion thinking it was something it was not, at all.
Gotta say, that is probably one of the most neat front covers I've seen in my life. It's just so amazingly satisfying to look at..
God, Jordan Peterson, Jonathan Pageau and now Matthieu Pageau bring me back to my faith. Something was missing in my life. Thank you so much, I don't know if you guys are aware of what you are doing in the world! God bless you all
Just ordered a copy. Can’t wait to get into it! :D
Glad to see you here Tom
At first glance I thought this was a book on Norse religion. Shows you how universal these symbols are, and yet they don't even teach these things in school. Thanks for posting Jonathan, I'm really excited to get a copy of this book!
There is definitely more in common between the Bible and any other tradition in the world than there is between the Bible and modern materialistic science.
Nearly finished the book. Hope to be able to finish it this weekend. Great stuff! A must read, really.
What I'd find very interesting is to have a Q and A with Matthieu about his book in a few weeks after people have read it, so we can send in some questions and get even more seizures.
Too late guys I’m going “insane” just listening to this talk. Just ordered the book cant wait for the guaranteed transformation. I’m getting queasy with the implications of what you are saying.
It's pretty great. Former atheist. This book is good. Though I'm glad I had Jordan's introduction to this kind of material. I am pushing the edge of my learning reading this book atm.
What a TREAT to watch these two brothers share the book release occasion… a mini reunion on their shared fascination and intellectual preoccupation with this wonderful deep universal subject. I love how they cracked each other up! and how they signed off laughing about their personality differences in the pursuit. Absolute gem.
I just got the book ... can't set it down. Very good material to read, especially because my materialistic mind set has limited me when confronting biblical text and other material, while your book has opened my eyes. From Chapter 8 and Chapter 9 is where things started to make sense to me. I find your writing to be very effective and to the point. I wish I had this material when I was a so called born again Christian. My Western, materialist, literalist attitude towards the scriptures, while a comfort at first, just caused me frustration and cynicism, and my later adoption to agnosticism. Thank you for the book.
Such a pleasure to hear you two guys, suddenly to find myself in a sane world. And so good to hear Matthieu is a science lover and mathematician. I've just ordered the book so I hope it doesn't drive me insane (again; I've spent quite a lot of my life like that). If it does I could try suing Matthieu for every penny he's got, but perhaps that wouldn't get me very far..... Keep it up, both of you. Your posts Jonathan are a frequent source of insight, encouragement, and that thing you (both) radiate; can't think of the word....
Matthieu, thank you so much for the content. I have purchased your book and look very much forward to receiving it to begin a journey. Of what I hear from the sliver of online content you have produced, the world needs you to speak, and loudly. Please consider more abundant content. Again, we need you to speak Matthieu.-- Jesse
Time being associated with chaos is another example of science coming into alignment with ancient cosmology: time is synonymous with increasing entropy (movement toward disorder/chaos).
The book is absolutely superb. I am enjoying it and learning so much. Like so many of the best books it explains to you things you felt you already knew intuitively and then expands those ideas to depths you hadn't considered.
An incredible achievement!
I just got it. I've read about 80 pages and I'm hooked! An extremely important book.
Just finished reading the sample on Kindle, I'm sold! The book describes complex subjects so clearly and the diagrams help a lot. I've been waiting for something like this for years. Thank you!!!
Love all these videos, and hearing from your brother who also has great insight into symbolism and scripture.
I would love to see your other brother Daniel on also. He is a legendary Canadian skateboarder, a believer, and a pastor on the west coast of B.C.
People would love your conversation. Bring on Daniel.🙂
I bought this book the day it came out and I’ve only just gotten around to reading it. I’m at page 200 now and I’m at the point where I can interpret the examples from the Bible before I read Matthieu’s! My mind is thoroughly blown.
The talk was so much better after reading the book!
The cross-pollination of The Lord of Spirits podcast with The Symbolic World strikes again!! I have been following you, my brother in Christ, since JBP made you available to us back in 2016, 2017. I am reviewing and going over these seminal videos again, to water and tend to what was planted a few years ago. New neural synapse connections, new pathways, new branches, new awareness, fresh growth, broader mind. A perilous and beautiful journey. Thank you.
Your relationship is beautiful. Your knowledge has helped me deeply. I’m doing my best to sow magic back into our world every day. Thank you.
Fascinating, eye opening, so grateful! I bought the book and am excited to read and would love Matthieu to do a class on the book!!
Can you explain why this was fascinating? I don’t get it 😂
I just ordered my copy online. I'm looking forward to reading it. I really enjoy listening to the brilliant talks you two gentleman have.
I've been waiting for this book for like a year! Matthieu has an ability to communicate these ideas in a way I can understand. I'm going to order it on Friday. I hope it does well. God bless!
Capt. Cutler how did you get on with the book?
OH SNAAAAP! It's been an eventful few weeks and I totally forgot to order it! Thanks for the reminder. :)
Been wating for this; just ordered the paperback version of the book a few minutes ago :)
We need more people like Matthieu, what a smart and genuine guy. Will definitely be checking out his book
Just bought it, so excited. ty so much for writing it Mattieu! I will be giving a review later.
Thankyou for this video.
Your symbolic interpretations have always given me means to look at ideas and concepts in a new light, allowing me to diversify my daydreams and inner monologue. I will definitely be picking up this book, looking forward to really developing this symbolic lense.
Amazing! As a catholic-mathematician I cannot wait to read your book Matthieu!
Thank you! Your explanation is much needed. I love both science and Christianity. They don’t contradict each other They both are knowledge of inner and outer life. I will share it with my Orthodox Church community. Looking forward to read your book.
Crazy watching this in 2021 and seeing them talk about how religion dying out is gonna be replaced by something else that's worse when that's exactly what culminated last year. When Pageau said this is Weimar Germany we're at right now, right on the precipice of disaster looming, and this video came out 3 years ago... chills
@Jonathan Pageau at 35:14 Matthieu talks about going insane when you change your lens of the way you're viewing the world. I know you have reservations about psychedelics and drug use. But my lens about Revelation the Bible in general was drastically changed the night I listened to the entire book of Revelation while very very high on a sativa strain of marijuana. I don't think what I did was advisable and I don't know that I would recommend it as I quickly became quite frantic and almost crazy (looking back I'm humiliated by some of the things I said in conversations with people I respect). I was tying all sorts of things together that should not be put together. But it is what led me to you, and understanding the Bible and reality through symbolism. Thank you for your work. I'm very much looking forward to reading God's dog also thank you for introducing me to your brother I hope to get his book soon. I genuinely thank God for guys like you that help make sense of the madness. 👍🤙
Just got this book two days ago. Been watching through the “Start here” playlist and listening to the podcast of this talk. You guys are awesome
Consciousness is a constituent of the universe! That is profound ! Buying that book immediately !
When I first read that concept in one of Rupert Sheldrake's books, I never thought it would gain traction. I'm delighted to hear more about it.
It's amazing how much ahead of the curve Sheldrake was - I loved 'A New Science of Life' and 'The Presence of the Past'. In some ways, the paradigm-shifting process going on now is partly a result of morphic resonance? I don't know
Me neither but it gives meaning to the notion that 'the truth is out there'. You might be right too about the build-up reaching a tipping point (I think that's what they call it). Good old Rupert!
Thou Art That
Marcus Bullion could you explain that to me?
Great book. Hegel says that a 'symbol' is a sign which not only refers to something [other than itself], but one which also 'resembles' or exemplifies the essence of that [other thing] to which it refers. For example, the English word, 'tree' is an unsymbolic sign which simply refers to plants with branches or abstract branching structures such as 'family trees' and the like; but there is nothing directly 'tree-like' about the word 'tree.' On the other hand, the biblical motif of the 'Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil," for example, is in this case a proper symbol because it both refers to and itself is a sensuous image of the branching system of moral cognition rendered intelligible to rational self-consciousness. The tree of knowledge really is 'like a tree' in that it partakes of the same logical branching structure that the morphology of a plant does. Generally speaking then, symbols have a natural relation to the ideas which they represent, whereas signs are blank indicators which are the product of arbitrary convention or contingent history. Now, since symbols are direct examples of the meaning or essence which they embody, even particular material things that exist for the senses can function as symbols of universal intelligible principles which are otherwise not directly sensible. There can therefore be non-actual 'symbols of symbols' or a syllogistic chain of symbols which finally terminates at an actual essence. For instance, a picture of a rose only symbolizes the rose plant, but the rose plant symbolizes the actual love one has for one's wife, say. Or similarly, a smiley face emoji merely symbolizes a person's smiling face, but this in turn symbolizes one's actual feeling of happiness. And finally, a crucifix can be taken as a mere symbol for Christ's death on the cross, but the act of 'this' man's death on 'this' cross itself symbolizes the actual fact that 'this' particular individual is one with the universal essence, that the finite resolves itself in the infinite; i.e., that humanity is united with God.
This is a very well constructed thought. I copied and pasted it, which I have never done for a youtube comment, so thank you for sharing. I have been looking for a good book or resource for coming to terms with the historical authenticity of the bodily resurrection of Christ - do you know of any? Maybe it sounds strange, but I sometimes feel like the historicity of Jesus almost undermines the significance of the story/idea. I can agree to it in the same way I agree to the truth of Noah and of Adam and Eve, but when I ask myself, "Do I think though that Jesus actually came back to life?" I find that I don't. I'm not sure if that's really a problem for me, in the same way that not believing that Adam and Eve were real isn't a problem. Anyway, no worries if you don't have any recommendations, you just seemed to be well-read on the subject.
@@BooBarr, the symbolism of the Bible does not mean the persons or events did not happen. The symbol and its meaning come from actually persons and events. Jesus died and came back to life. The Bible's narrative is how we make sense or spot the meaning of what Christ as a living breathing symbol is.
Just found your channel because of a Jordan Peterson short... and I am running to Amazon this minute to buy the book... Will be watching more of this thread, and will let you know my thoughts soon!!! THANK YOU!!!!
As a muslim woman who is interested in different versions of cosmology, I've enjoyed this a lot! Please keep making videos with your brother. I'm sure he has a lot of interesting things to talk about. Peace be upon you all!
All world religion meets at a fundamental level, we just need to find that level.
@@tensevo I agree with you sir. Have a nice day!
Wow, the discussion you guys had in this video planted a bomb in my mind that exploded a few days later. This is a whole separate level of thought for me! I need to get this book.
I really respect the attempt to join science and spirituality here. It seems very intelligent and a way forward to me. It seems to me that there is clearly truth in the Bible just as there is truth in contemporary scientific discovery. I also agree that the rise of totalitarianism was a spiritual malady and can't be understood merely in terms of physical suffering or inequality.
Mathieu did well. Thank you both.
I just ordered the book. I find it interesting that much is said about the mistake of using materialism to interpret the bible, yet the very author of the book I just ordered discusses categorizing the initial genesis passages using a mathematical mindset! Could it be that our pre-science ancestors where in fact materialists, it's just that they had no consciousness of being a "materialist"? We've always had a scientific, mathematical, abstract part of our lizard brain, that only technology (tools and toys) could bring to the surface of our being? Matthieu thinks he is interpreting the scriptures outside of materialism but he will always interpret the world through a materialist eyes. He can't help it. I've watched your videos for awhile. I've always found the brothers Pageau discussions fascinating and informative. The artist and the mathematician ... a dance that has caused me to question and grow. You guys are great. Thanks.
Something I forgot to mention in this talk, and that I regret not mentioning, is that my standard of interpretation is traditional commentary, either early Christian or Jewish. I used a mathematical mindset in the sense that I tried to use the very cosmological categories presented in the creation narrative as "axioms" (so to speak) to interpret the rest of the Bible. In doing so, my interpretations matched ancient Biblical interpretations (especially from Jewish sources) which to me was confirmation that my insights were valid.
Thank you. I look forward to your book. To me mathematics provides a certain purity, a certain clarity, to even the figurative aspects of the world. I used to look down on the subjective and the figurative, but now I believe our pre-science ancestors where just as "scientific" with the limited tools they had. You and your brother have taught me that.
I bought this book while watching this interview.
This is the second book I have ever bought full price for pleasure, so yes, I am excited to read it.
I just bought the book on Amazon and I'm really looking forward to the effect it will have on me. Thank you for your work, I cant wait to converge in thought when the time is right...
Just received mine! Delivered in Brasil 🇧🇷
Can’t wait to read it!
Your parents must be so proud! You guys have incredible minds!
I´m glad to have found you, guys.
That´s exactly what I was looking for.
Just start reading the book.
Please please please bring him on your channel more. He may not want to make his own videos, but if you can drag him into doing more videos with you that would be amazing. You guys compliment each other so well when discussing these things.
Yes please. More Pageau Brother discussions
I appreciate your content. I Would love to find others, here in Hawaii, who like discussing these subjects. Aloha!
Me!!!
Just finished reading chapter 80 on wine and fermentation. I have been baking true sourdough bread for my family for several years now. I feel compelled to continue bread baking, even as I am working outside the home now. I would be interested in learning more about the symbolism of bread and other foods. Thank you!
What a great book (I'm at page 200 at the moment). It starts well and then gets better and better. The section about space and time will blow your mind!
Bought the book. Can't put it down. Taking notes on Kindle. Watching this a second time. Thank you!
Can't wait to get my hands on this. Just got bumped to the top of my reading list.
4:17 reminds me of how learning about screenwriting and story structure forever changes how you watch films or shows, and in some sense ruins them as you can guess what’s going to happen or where you’re at in the story much more correctly than most-all the behind the curtain has been revealed and becomes salient-yet when it’s something well done then i reckon you get even more pleasure and/or meaning than most from it as seeing the threads only adds to the awe and immersion and allows the theme or symbolism to hit and impact deeper.
Love you both! Merry Christmas!
Excellent book Matthieu. Many of the basic concepts fit quite well with the narrative found in Genesis and the Torah for that matter. I did find your explanation of Ezekiel's vision wanting though. You point out how mankind is the mediator between heaven and earth, and how the spirit manifests in the physical, and how God breathed Neshama into Adam. Well, have you ever considered that that is exactly what Ezekiel is seeing, the encampment in the wilderness with it's four faces? Ezekiel is looking northwards and the 'vehicle' upon which Yehovah is 'riding' is Israel being directed by His Neshama. Directly in front, at the south of the encampment is the face of a man (Reuben/Red), to the east, the face of the lion (Judah), west is the ox (Ephraim) and north, the eagle (Dan). If you can visualize this, you may also be able to see the wheel within the wheel, the inner circle being the Levites. I would love to hear any comments you might have on this for I would imagine with this little insight, and your ability to see these symbolisms for what they are, you may see deeper into this than I presently have.
I love how the front cover is cryptic until you finish the book, close it and then BAM: Heaven, Earth, Time and Space hit you right in the face
Good job. Thanks for sharing
Amazing work guys please do keep it up! We need it! Thank you!
Just earlier this morning I've came across your video on Symbolism of the Tree which lead me to this. I gotta say I share Matthieu's sentiment on the reconciliation of these two worlds. Though I feel if people can just look at the big picture its really not that difficult to reconcile them but unfortunately, or fortunately, we all don't think alike nor notice the same things. Just a long winded way of saying that I'm definitely going to pickup this book and delve in it. Keep up the great content guys. GB.
I love how literally every single diagram in the book looks like Back to the Future's flux capacitor upside down. 🤣
Can’t wait to see your book! Just ordered it: you guys ROCK!
After listening to your conversation, I had to order Mathieu's book. Too bad that standard shipping to Finland takes a month... I'm looking forward to reading it! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Beware of hubris brother Jonathan. It often manifests as the intention of not wanting to disrespect. Which in itself is an assumption that you will. And is the result of thinking you can. Reasonable people don’t mind being disrespected unintentionally. Reasonable people do mind being protected. In trying to avoid the pattern you are robbing both yourself and the other of the experience, stunting growth. Thank you for your videos🙏 Understanding the foundation of our reality is paramount to Gods new kingdom.
Finally something in my feed to chew on.
Just ordered Matthieu’s book! So excited.
Sevilla showed me her copy of the book - it has clearly been consulted many many times 🙂 She highly recommends it, of course.
Ordered the book, can't wait to delve into it!
Amazing video. I will buy the book - but the stake is high. I'm considered weird now. And now with the disclaimer "don't go crazy" anything could happen :-)
The name of cognitive/computer scientist is Donald Hoffman not John Hoffman.
Can’t wait to read this book.
Ive been looking forward to reading his book since you both talked about it last. Will be reading it this weekend.
The description of truth reminds me very much of the Correspondence Theory of truth popular amongst analytic philosophers (e.g. Russell and Moore); especially the later formulations which hold falsehood to consist in miscorrespondence to facts.
It’s so funny that you look and talk very similarly. Siblings are so fun!
What convinces me there is something real there, is that I came to many of the exact same conclusions by revisiting the bible by myself, noticing there were these patterns. I began looking into Kabbalah and judaism because of that, and I saw that I could almost predict what the symbolic interpretation was, so consistent were the patterns
sounds very interesting. looking forward to read it.
I think I'm going to enjoy this book. I just finished Finnegans Wake and now I'm reading a book (The Curse of Kabbalah) to tell me what it was about. Joyce portrayed space/time by personalising it as two fighting twin brothers who complete each other. He used Giambattista Vico's cycles of history to illustrate the beginning, growth, demise and re-growth of society over time. Matthieu's focus on the Old Testament should be a fascinating read in its own right, and hopefully shed some more light on what Joyce was saying.
Rudolf Steiner also described this over 100 years ago and it's beautiful to see you conveying these ideas in modern language. The language of Anthroposophy is inaccessible to many but I think it's meaning matches that of your book
One day we will have St. Matthieu Pageau and St. Jonathan Pageau. They are doing something very important and profound here.
Woohoo got it for kindle, read the first few chapters, and I’m hooked!!!
IMHO Matthieu Pageau's book The Language of Creation is DEEP, baby! Dig It!
Thanks. Love you guys.
One thing I appreciated about art school was the way they taught how to interpret a work based on the proper context. This is in stark opposition to the post modern method of juxtaposition, and I think we have needed a corrective lens through which to view these traditions. This book makes a large and insightful step towards realizing that worldview.
Vatican II addressed the issue of religious similarity fairly well. As you said: Christ is the truth, it is likely he will manifest in partial ways elsewhere, but the fullness of truth is in Christ. It's a shame this led to washy ecumenism. (Point 2. www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decl_19651028_nostra-aetate_en.html)
Purchased! Cannot wait to read it!
Great stuff. Looking forward to the read. Thanks guys. Quality stuff!
Great interview, lads. I look forward to reading the book. I'd be interested to know if Matthieu is influenced by Guénonian traditionalist thought at all.
Thanks for your answer. I haven't yet read the Reign of Quantity... It'll be interesting to read your book in light of that influence, then.
@@matthieupageau9537 hi Matthieu! This is such an old comment that I seriously doubt you'll even see my reply, but might as well try lol! Thank you so much for your book, I started it a month ago and I'm just about to finish it (I'm currently at chapter 74), it has helped me a lot in understanding the symbolism in the Bible, and I was wondering if you're planning on writing a sequel focused on the New Testament or exploring different aspects of Biblical symbolism
Great video! I definitely have to buy the book!