The best way to make the spirits actually reveal themselves to you is voluntary asceticism. It’s fasting, prayer, psalmody, solitude, silence and watchfulness. The devils hate it and will react, simply because they are losing control and power over you.
@@paulr5246yes this!! If you aren't a monk, then you must focus on your own microcosm of the microcosm. Too much asceticism can make a horrible father, husband, etc. probably a ton of Both/And there too though I reckon?
@notstrong5789 & @paulr5246: Marriage is asceticism--that's why we get martyr's crowns @ our weddings. They're not for nothing, you know? It's just a different kind of asceticism, but what else would you even call it? Monks have theirs & we have ours. Both are tough stuff.
What an amazing conversation. As a western Christian I did have past experiences with voices in my head that was leading me to delete myself when I was 15….I finally called out to God and asked if he was real take it away, that night I felt an over whelming love come over me and all the evil was gone… I’m 42 now, ever since then I never turned back, Jesus is God. it’s funny how we don’t talk about this in my church, we became so modern and materialistic even in the church, only a handful of men that see this side of reality. We need to be ready as a church and unite, and to be ready to let the world know about this other realm. It does sound strange to be posting about this… lol . John thanks for these conversations.
I belive you. I have had a similar experience. I know God is real, Jesus Christ saved me. Now I have God's peace in my heart. I was plauged by anxiety. And just before Jesus saved me I was attacked by evil things. I admitted my arrogance, and in the millisecond I admitted my mistake, in my arrogance. God saved me. He put a mental shield around me, and I'm safe from evil things trying to hurt me.
This was super interesting! And, yessss!!! If worship is just a exchanging information and experiencing emotion, then everything is manipulatable and… is disembodying humanity. Thankful to be an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
And even Heiser’s fictional books, The Façade and The Portent deal exactly with the alien question. He made the book fiction, but it’s got footnotes referencing real UFO and visitation experience stories. When the Mexico hoax popped up, I had to run back and reread.
Talking about negative re-enchantment: in Germany there is a popular childrens book ("Das Buch mit dem Fluch") with the premise that there is a demon trapped inside the book and the children have to solve little riddles to free it. There are multiple editions, one of them designed to be passed around the kid's friends for them to write in it. In that one, each child has to swear eternal allegiance to the demon by signing with a drop of soda or spit (the book even alludes to the possibility of doing it with blood). In every book from the series, the child is also constantly insulted and threatened by the demon and in one case even "jokingly" instructed to burn the book in order to free it. Literal insane and evil stuff, and it's just sitting in book stores and on best sellers lists without anyone batting an eye. Of course, if you even question if such a thing is good for children's mental health, you'll be made to look like a deranged "satanic panic" lunatic. Bad times.
Oh my God, THANK YOU for having invited this gentleman and having had this conversation. This is such an important topic. Fr. Seraphim Rose was the first one who opened my eyes on the UFOs, in one of his books; he mentions Jacques Vallée, too. I used to be an avid reader of J.V.'s books and anything similar and J.V. was the first one who put forth this view that all these "entities" that people keep reporting are not from the outer space, but from here - just from a different dimension.
Wonderful! It remains a wonder to me that so many of the people who I have admired on the internet since before Covid have found each other - Rod mentioned Jonathan, Paul Kingsnorth, Martin Shaw, Iain McGilchrist, and there are others in this growing Little Corner of the Internet, all of whom have been opening up the spiritual world and the richness of reality to me in a most profound way as part of an increasing number of people around the world being drawn into your vision. Such exciting times to be living in, so hopeful for a re-awakening world, and so blessed to be participants in this emerging phenomenon, even just as avid supporters offering our attention and prayers. I look forward to reading Rod's new book as part of this shared journey. Thank you both!
Just finished reading Rod’s book. It’s interesting and challenging. It evoked memories of mystical experiences and is making me reevaluate my thinking and beliefs about the supernatural.
Weird thing just happened: my wife was listening to a podcast she was telling me about a book recommendation they brought up in the podcast. Rod dreher just recommended the same book: Mountain of Silence. I haven't read the whole thing, but what I have read was quite good. Wild that in a span of 10 minutes the same book that is over 10 years old is recommended in 2 different things we're listening to. It's not even a new book!
Excellent. Can’t wait to read the book. I awoke to the aliens are demons thinking a few years ago. The Lord of Spirits also helped expand my creation view. God bless you guys.
25:42 “Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation” ( Lectures on Faith, 6:7)
Great talk. Rod is right about Catholics over 50. I am 63 and can only point to a very few, a true handful, of Catholics my age who really believe in "The Numinous." Most of my "Amici" are intentional Catholics under 40, practicing Orthodox and some engaged Protestants.
I agree that these things are a lot more common than generally believed. I had a very profound experience that resulted in a major change in my life. If I told most people what happened, they wouldn't believe it.
I'm enjoying this topic very much. I hope that you talk about psychic suggestions/ prompts. The psychologist understands the effectiveness of this tool.
This induced many thoughts, questions, recalled stories in my life. I am not what you would call a WooWoo kind of person ordinarily. But it has given me things to think about.
I was an atheist for 53 years. At the end of that time, I was very near to killing myself because I could clearly see the face of evil (Satan) For the first time in my life (this was in 2020...) I KNEW with a certainty that there was a malevolent force seeking to destroy not just America but all of humanity. And I couldn't handle that knowledge. I needed God, but I had no idea how to find him. Well. God knew how to find me. He'd been seeking my heart since I was born and I praise Him every day that He gave me the ability to see and taste and smell and feel Him finally, before I took my life in despair. I wish I'd been able to seek and find the face of God first. It took seeing the face of real evil before I could see the face of God. I'm just grateful that He allowed me to come to Him in repentance, love, humility, respect, awe. My life has been infinitely better since submitting my life to God and seeking to do His will.
Don't give up on conservative protestants, most intuitively understand the spiritual dangers, and have had their own personal encounters. We are all on the same team at the scale of "Christian" (if you don't want to accept that now, it will be obvious if/when things get really bad)
I heard someone being interviewed by Peterson back in the webcam days raise this very point: in videogames and Internet forums and assorted social websites you can make up your identity and that becomes your reality if you live in it long enough. Generations raised like this will start believing this malleability is a fundamental truth, a way to deal with your limitations and the things you don’t like about yourself.
People thought the same thing with the printing press, with the mass ability to spread misinformation, challenge authorities, but it also is the very thing used to bring scriptures to people worldwide. Perhaps it is how it is used, that is the issue, not the technology itself inherently.
@alvareo92 Its why transgenderism took hold. These people weren't really transgender until they perceived benefits and "fixing" of one's life that way.
Being skeptical is good but i never question peoples personal experiences. They saw what they saw. What do we do with these experiences is way more interesting.
Back in the 60's there was a writer, John Keel, who wrote about mothman and ufo's etc. He made the comment then, of how the ufo abduction phenomena resembled the stories of faeries and gnomes and so on from history.
Glad to see him reference Vallée and Pasulka. All Vallée books are spot on imo. ET supporters say, if the phenomenon is spiritual, why is phisical evidence..? Well folks, demons can do that.
To the point made regarding spaces feeling “off” after something bad happened - there are studies to suggest that individuals secrete stress hormones through their sweat glands during intense moments of fight flight freeze. Some say that when we enter a space where bad things happened, our nervous system is picking up on these stress hormones that remain in the space.
@@brader31992 not criticizing you in particular, but what is called “scientifiscism”, in that only what’s considered real is what is measured by “studies”.
At 58:00 Rod tells us to go inside of the Orthodox churches and pray with the Orthodox. Yet no Orthodox I know will pray with someone who isn't officially part of their church. So what's the deal?
22:17 - I paused here so maybe it's addressed later in the video, but does modern culture struggle with a loss of our ability to precieve or have we lost our willingness to engage?
I feel like they may be the same thing. Perception seems to be a participatory process, Jordan Peterson and Iain McGilchrist independently allude to this.
Psychedelics can open us to a deeper sense of reality and connect us with an authentic spirituality, particularly if you have developed a spiritual sense of north. As a Christian, my faith and commitment to Jesus' teachings are more a part of the daily struggles of my life because these experiences have helped open me to God. The work of this comes after psychedelic trips, in the day-to-day activities of life, the same as in attending mass.
Great conversation! Johnathan, you should try getting Timothy Alberino on an episode, regarding his book Birthright. I think that would be a really interesting conversation 👍
Earth and heaven shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away! No matter how many times Christianity dies a close death- the Dark Ages, Renaissance, thru 16-19th centuries-God resurrected. We humans of modern times can’t imagine another order, unless it is another world of the dark apocalyptic age. God is here! We praying & searching souls know Christ Jesus truly is for us.
Jesus (Yeshua) died for all, only few want Him as He truly is. They want a baby in the manger turned concierge. They don't want to pick up their cross and actually follow Him.
I have enormous respect for both Pageau and Dreher. I’ve read several of Dreher’s books and am very sympathetic to their overall message. However… Not all of us will be able to accept Christianity, or ANY Abrahamic religion. We fully embrace God or some intuition of an ultimate spiritual ground to existence superior to any materialistic explanation, but we are not convinced by Christ and the Christological accounts of him that he generated. The inevitable road to spiritual discovery that leaves to us is many of the Hindu or Buddhist paths, principally. Secondarily, it opens up as a legitimate alternative is the thriving and rich esoteric traditions of the west, from Neoplatonism and Gnosticism to alchemical and magical and even a few neopagan traditions. There is no need to fear them. They are spiritual traditions just like Christian ones. They need to be respected. They are not demonic unless the practitioner employs them to demonic ends. Evil people are a problem in every tradition, from Catholic and Orthodox and Jewish to mages and witches. I should be VERY careful, if I were Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, about attributing demonic influences to non-Christian paths. Because when we talk about what is demonic I am more inclined to apply that epithet to the followers of The Prince of Peace, who, between 1618 and 1648 piously slaughtered over 8 million of their fellow Christians based on whether they acknowledged a pope or not. Or the 2 million murdered in the French War of Religion of the 16th century. Or the Black Hundreds of late Czarist Russia, looting, raping and often murdering Jewish subjects of the Czar, the drunken, pious Orthodox mobs led by praying Orthodox priests blessing their crimes. Compared to THAT you DARE call some Goth girl burning herbs on an alter on the Solstice and chanting invocations to her Goddess “demonic”???!!!
I recommend "Cracks in the Great Wall" by Charles Upton if you're looking a very accessible book about Aliens from a Traditionalist/Perennialist perspective. He goes into Jacques Vallée's writings too, which were discussed in this video.
Thanks so much for this, looking forward to reading Rods new book! (Also, can you turn the Captions feature back on, Jonathan? Some of us *ahem* Boomers need to read along while listening.....😅🙃
I’ll have to read the book, but what is the correlation between enchantment in Mr Dreher’s usage, and salvation/sanctification? It presents to me as if enchantment is the capture of the soul by the revelation of God.
43:01 I wonder what the statistics are for all podcast "viewership" that's actually intently focusing on the media itself. I have to pause this to type a comment or if i read something on my screen because i can tell I am not retaining during thise activities. Very scary.
Who else had a presence in their room a couple days after listening to this? I don't know what's with Rod, but he seems to drag something with him he's unaware of
Atheist for most of my life. Started reading the Bible (at the recommendation of Christopher Hitchens no less) as I loved English Literature. A year or so later, I was in a bad place and took 3 tabs of acid and bizarrely fell asleep. Woke up in the middle of a trip. I experienced what I can only describe as vision-thoughts I could see and yet they were not completely visible. I saw a creature with a human face and spider's legs in the corner of the room. It was then that I noticed the cables all around the house. A dreadful Web. I then tried to watch a video to distract me. Clicked on the first thing. It was a video of a man with a disease that rendered him stuck in a child's body. The face was exactly the same as that of the creature I had 'seen' earlier. I knew nothing of demonology and very little about depictions of such things. I have also seen a 'UFO' very clearly. Have also had Christ experiences in the time since. Whatever you think about it, this stuff is going on. Now I'm sober, and feel I am inevitably moving towards Christ. Mad times.
Couldn’t seeing a demon be an archetype? A psychic projection? I just don’t understand the difference. Is Kant to blame for the distance towards noumena? I have bought Kants commentary on Swedenborg (Dreams of a spirit-seer); I haven’t read it yet, although he makes the Occam's razor argument. I agree - the occult is irrational and disturbing. Psychologists advocating for "manifesting" on Swedish television etc.
I listened to the whole book steadily. I am 59 and am open to new ways of seeing reality. I never really went for UFO's and AI although trans humanism fits into this matrix. Parts of the book were moody, and frightening. But it was an exhilarating read and got me thinking. I believe the thesis that we as western christians are missing a part of spiritual reality although Pentecostalism has more of a pre modern outlook but there is a lot of chicanery and deception and false speaking in tongues, healing or raising from the dead. My worry is thinking of reality in an untrue manner which in turn makes me foolish.
These two clearly believe in something more than materialism. What am I missing? What is wrong with me? I just can’t seem to buy into it all (although I find it fascinating and would be delighted to find out there is more to life than what science tells us).
Trying to get the audible version of the book, though looks like it's no longer listed. Does anyone know where I can get an audio version of the book? The physical edition is $150 when amazon adds shipping and custom fees for my country :(
This may be an odd connection, but the part of the discussion about the UFOs that various government officials believe are trans-dimensional beings reminds me of the Space Boy comic by Stephen McCranie.
24:10 not only does Christianity ask you to be celibate or fast, but Christ commands us to LAY DOWN OUR LIFE FOR ANOTHER. We are to proclaim Christ as Lord to death, and die for another in the name of justice.
young generations can't get through films anymore not because they don't have the attention span but because the coasting peace time that we had post ww2 isnt what we're in anymore, and lacking something to cohere around we find less meaning in films. i mean, nacho libre? really? its like how you're saying young people already saw the writing on the wall about the futility of trying to make the church save us, like movies are going through that shift.
I really struggle with the idea of anything enchanted from angels to ghosts to aliens to God himself. The only really unusual phenomena that has me somewhat convinced in terms of being real is crop circles because, even though it has it’s skeptics casting doubt by saying it’s done by groups of people with planks and ropes, the explanation isn’t suitable. When people with boards and ropes do create crop circles they are messy, it takes them a long time to do something even basic, and it damages the crops, where as the ‘real’ crop circles appear quickly, are very intricate and the crops are not broken. I still struggle with what it is and what it means and even doubt it from time to time thinking I’m being lied to and taken in, but so far for me it’s the most convincing phenomena.
@RunninUpThatHillh as he spent a not-inconsiderable amount of time styling it, Rod would no doubt be pleased that you like it. These considerations matter to him.
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the idea that Alex Jones was run out of business and now mainstream media is talking about some of his theories, such as this idea of interdimensional beings, is that it is nothing more than a business model: they got rid of the competition and now they're giving the market what it wants. I think it's mostly noise and distraction. That's just my initial knee-jerk reaction though. And that is a reaction just to the very beginning introduction of the video. I watch the rest of it now.
As a Californian I get a good laugh out of saying "California Buddhist". I remember a song many years ago "with my plastic Jesus on the dashboard of my car" now replaced by a Buddha.
If you recognise only the brighter side - children mascarading as Iron men - you can say: come on, what's wrong with it?! But if you consider the darker side - children mascarading as vampires, witches and devil himself - you will start asking a lot of questions, among which: Does Halloween promote the dark "reenchantment" happening nowadays? Doesn't children mascarading as dark forces (directly or symbolically) actually invite them in their life? Doesn't this event teach not to recognize the difference between dark forces and Angels and all kinds of other good real or symbolically expressed characters? And here again we return to the first question...
Love this, absolutely incredible conversation. But maybe, just maybe, Cartesian/Augustinian/Platonic dualism is the real problem. That philosophy is certainly not the Jewish, non-pagan worldview Jesus used.
I bought his new book out of curiosity, and while it had a lot of good perspectives and thoughts I found valuable, I found plenty to be skeptical about. The whole "demonic UFOs and AI" angle came quite out of left field, and kind of gave off conspiracy-huffing vibes, honestly, the kind of thing I'd expect more from the likes of Alex Jones. He even takes the Holy Fire seriously, which was another red flag. All things considered though, it was okay and I don't regret buying it.
Father Seraphim rose was well ahead of his time in this Subject.
Dr Heiser too. Skywatch Radio, Doctor Future, Canary Cry Radio...this was superfringe a decade ago lol.
Yes, he was speaking about it decades ago.
@@prettycatlick4373remember the documentaries age of deceit
YES!
The best way to make the spirits actually reveal themselves to you is voluntary asceticism. It’s fasting, prayer, psalmody, solitude, silence and watchfulness. The devils hate it and will react, simply because they are losing control and power over you.
If you are married, hard work.
I agree. Or you can take the shortcut of sharing a bed with four dogs-it worked for Tucker Carlson!
@@paulr5246yes this!! If you aren't a monk, then you must focus on your own microcosm of the microcosm. Too much asceticism can make a horrible father, husband, etc. probably a ton of Both/And there too though I reckon?
@notstrong5789 & @paulr5246:
Marriage is asceticism--that's why we get martyr's crowns @ our weddings. They're not for nothing, you know?
It's just a different kind of asceticism, but what else would you even call it? Monks have theirs & we have ours. Both are tough stuff.
What an amazing conversation. As a western Christian I did have past experiences with voices in my head that was leading me to delete myself when I was 15….I finally called out to God and asked if he was real take it away, that night I felt an over whelming love come over me and all the evil was gone… I’m 42 now, ever since then I never turned back, Jesus is God. it’s funny how we don’t talk about this in my church, we became so modern and materialistic even in the church, only a handful of men that see this side of reality. We need to be ready as a church and unite, and to be ready to let the world know about this other realm. It does sound strange to be posting about this… lol . John thanks for these conversations.
Check out the Orthodox church for less materialism. You may like it
I belive you. I have had a similar experience. I know God is real, Jesus Christ saved me. Now I have God's peace in my heart. I was plauged by anxiety. And just before Jesus saved me I was attacked by evil things. I admitted my arrogance, and in the millisecond I admitted my mistake, in my arrogance. God saved me. He put a mental shield around me, and I'm safe from evil things trying to hurt me.
This was super interesting!
And, yessss!!! If worship is just a exchanging information and experiencing emotion, then everything is manipulatable and… is disembodying humanity.
Thankful to be an Eastern Orthodox Christian.
Great talk! Discernment is more important than ever in our time of deception. Pay attention to Christ!
Glad to see Mr. Pageau and Mr. Dreher are having this discussion - we fans of Haunted Cosmos have been entertaining these ideas for a good while now!
Thank you both so much for protecting the sanctity of Wonder.
The book by Micheal Hieser RIP, “Unseen Realm” is such a great book about this conversation.
And even Heiser’s fictional books, The Façade and The Portent deal exactly with the alien question. He made the book fiction, but it’s got footnotes referencing real UFO and visitation experience stories. When the Mexico hoax popped up, I had to run back and reread.
YES!
Yes. He was talking abou t this way before it became mainstream. God rest his soul ❤
There's a documentary by Dr. Heiser called Aliens and Demons out, I believe that's the title.
That is a actually an amazing documentary by heiser.
Talking about negative re-enchantment: in Germany there is a popular childrens book ("Das Buch mit dem Fluch") with the premise that there is a demon trapped inside the book and the children have to solve little riddles to free it. There are multiple editions, one of them designed to be passed around the kid's friends for them to write in it. In that one, each child has to swear eternal allegiance to the demon by signing with a drop of soda or spit (the book even alludes to the possibility of doing it with blood). In every book from the series, the child is also constantly insulted and threatened by the demon and in one case even "jokingly" instructed to burn the book in order to free it. Literal insane and evil stuff, and it's just sitting in book stores and on best sellers lists without anyone batting an eye. Of course, if you even question if such a thing is good for children's mental health, you'll be made to look like a deranged "satanic panic" lunatic. Bad times.
Insanity
Yikes.
Oh my God, THANK YOU for having invited this gentleman and having had this conversation. This is such an important topic. Fr. Seraphim Rose was the first one who opened my eyes on the UFOs, in one of his books; he mentions Jacques Vallée, too. I used to be an avid reader of J.V.'s books and anything similar and J.V. was the first one who put forth this view that all these "entities" that people keep reporting are not from the outer space, but from here - just from a different dimension.
I haven’t tuned into your channel for a while. Thank you for this conversation. Came at a very important moment
I have Live Not By Lies and it was one of my favorite reads last year: I'm definitely going to purchase Rod's newest book! Great conversation!
Wonderful! It remains a wonder to me that so many of the people who I have admired on the internet since before Covid have found each other - Rod mentioned Jonathan, Paul Kingsnorth, Martin Shaw, Iain McGilchrist, and there are others in this growing Little Corner of the Internet, all of whom have been opening up the spiritual world and the richness of reality to me in a most profound way as part of an increasing number of people around the world being drawn into your vision. Such exciting times to be living in, so hopeful for a re-awakening world, and so blessed to be participants in this emerging phenomenon, even just as avid supporters offering our attention and prayers. I look forward to reading Rod's new book as part of this shared journey. Thank you both!
CS Lewis was so right...."That Hideous Strength."
not enough people have read that book. so relevant today
I haven't read that one.
Abolition of Man
@@noahjohnson2611I’m stuck on the second book
Just finished reading Rod’s book. It’s interesting and challenging. It evoked memories of mystical experiences and is making me reevaluate my thinking and beliefs about the supernatural.
What a wonderful interesting conversation. and convicting!
Jesus Christ Son of God have mercy on me a sinner
Weird thing just happened: my wife was listening to a podcast she was telling me about a book recommendation they brought up in the podcast. Rod dreher just recommended the same book: Mountain of Silence. I haven't read the whole thing, but what I have read was quite good. Wild that in a span of 10 minutes the same book that is over 10 years old is recommended in 2 different things we're listening to. It's not even a new book!
Ive had similar experiences. A syncronicity? Who knows. But now Ive heard of the book too. Thanks!
I met Rod earlier this year in church. Great guy. He is the best of what boomers can offer.
He's not a boomer. He's genx, he mentioned that in the beginning.
@@Deserrto talk about damning with faint praise...
@@sotiriapapadopoulou8945 he is my father's age, he is a boomer.
@@Deserrtothat’s not an argument - he’s 57, so born 67, so Gen X. If your father is 57, he / you are mistaken about him being a boomer.
@@effem892 As if those date definitions have no give... you're sperging
Please do a conversation with Alex Jones and Fr Spyridon Bailey who wrote the UFO deception. That would be amazing!!
I was hoping to see this comment. The UFO Deception is incredible, along with Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future of course.
Unfortunately, Fr Spyridon has expressed on his channel that he does not have a blessing from his spiritual father to do interviews/podcasts.
@@PSNSMANIACALMIND1st that's too bad. I know he did one with Paul Joseph Watson a year or so back.
Excellent. Can’t wait to read the book. I awoke to the aliens are demons thinking a few years ago. The Lord of Spirits also helped expand my creation view. God bless you guys.
Lord of Spirits podcast was so valuable to me.
25:42
“Let us here observe, that a religion that does not require the sacrifice of all things never has power sufficient to produce the faith necessary unto life and salvation” ( Lectures on Faith, 6:7)
I just bought Rod’s book and am about halfway in. It is amazing! Thank you!
Great talk. Rod is right about Catholics over 50. I am 63 and can only point to a very few, a true handful, of Catholics my age who really believe in "The Numinous." Most of my "Amici" are intentional Catholics under 40, practicing Orthodox and some engaged Protestants.
I agree that these things are a lot more common than generally believed. I had a very profound experience that resulted in a major change in my life. If I told most people what happened, they wouldn't believe it.
I'm enjoying this topic very much. I hope that you talk about psychic suggestions/ prompts. The psychologist understands the effectiveness of this tool.
This conversation scared the shit out of me. And I love it.
This was a delight to listen to!
This induced many thoughts, questions, recalled stories in my life. I am not what you would call a WooWoo kind of person ordinarily. But it has given me things to think about.
Such incredible points about how we perceive reality! Thank you both for being bold in sharing these truths.
Lovely to hear his story towards Christianity, very relatable. God Bless You both :-)
I was an atheist for 53 years. At the end of that time, I was very near to killing myself because I could clearly see the face of evil (Satan) For the first time in my life (this was in 2020...) I KNEW with a certainty that there was a malevolent force seeking to destroy not just America but all of humanity. And I couldn't handle that knowledge. I needed God, but I had no idea how to find him.
Well. God knew how to find me. He'd been seeking my heart since I was born and I praise Him every day that He gave me the ability to see and taste and smell and feel Him finally, before I took my life in despair. I wish I'd been able to seek and find the face of God first. It took seeing the face of real evil before I could see the face of God. I'm just grateful that He allowed me to come to Him in repentance, love, humility, respect, awe. My life has been infinitely better since submitting my life to God and seeking to do His will.
Don't give up on conservative protestants, most intuitively understand the spiritual dangers, and have had their own personal encounters. We are all on the same team at the scale of "Christian" (if you don't want to accept that now, it will be obvious if/when things get really bad)
I agree.
Great conversations. Slowly working my way through Living in Wonder and enjoying it.
Enjoyed listening to the conversation. You touched upon a few things that have been on my mind for some time now.
Very interesting conversation -- I'd love to hear a conversation with Diana Pasulka, and Jaques Valleé. Vallee is a Rosicrucian - I think.
Love his reference to That Hideous Strength!
The most relevant dystopian book outside of Revelation
Rod's take on the distortion of reality in the digital world is profound.
I heard someone being interviewed by Peterson back in the webcam days raise this very point: in videogames and Internet forums and assorted social websites you can make up your identity and that becomes your reality if you live in it long enough. Generations raised like this will start believing this malleability is a fundamental truth, a way to deal with your limitations and the things you don’t like about yourself.
I see it every day here in South Texas. Souls adrift in a world of their own making.
People thought the same thing with the printing press, with the mass ability to spread misinformation, challenge authorities, but it also is the very thing used to bring scriptures to people worldwide.
Perhaps it is how it is used, that is the issue, not the technology itself inherently.
@alvareo92 Its why transgenderism took hold. These people weren't really transgender until they perceived benefits and "fixing" of one's life that way.
I’ve experienced very similar things. I need to read this book. God is good :)
Wonderful and enchanting conversation.
This topic is on time. Just read Giants, Fallen angels and the return of The Nephilim. Love that the Christian community is talking about this.
Being skeptical is good but i never question peoples personal experiences. They saw what they saw. What do we do with these experiences is way more interesting.
Back in the 60's there was a writer, John Keel, who wrote about mothman and ufo's etc. He made the comment then, of how the ufo abduction phenomena resembled the stories of faeries and gnomes and so on from history.
Michael Heiser was a brilliant scholar, and a unwitting prophet.
Book stores in Denver & Boulder have entire sections in some of the most visible places of the stores about witchcraft!!
Glad to see him reference Vallée and Pasulka. All Vallée books are spot on imo. ET supporters say, if the phenomenon is spiritual, why is phisical evidence..? Well folks, demons can do that.
Really enjoyed that, looking forward to reading the book, thank you gentlemen
To the point made regarding spaces feeling “off” after something bad happened - there are studies to suggest that individuals secrete stress hormones through their sweat glands during intense moments of fight flight freeze.
Some say that when we enter a space where bad things happened, our nervous system is picking up on these stress hormones that remain in the space.
I get a bad feeling everytime “studies” are mentioned nowadays
Maybe you’re in a bad space
@@brader31992 not criticizing you in particular, but what is called “scientifiscism”, in that only what’s considered real is what is measured by “studies”.
Maybe he saw the revelation of James Lindsay and Peter Boghossian, who knows 🤷🏻♂️
Science comes to the rescue!
Rod Dreher is the best example of a Christian that knows how to weave Christianity and politics.
At 58:00 Rod tells us to go inside of the Orthodox churches and pray with the Orthodox. Yet no Orthodox I know will pray with someone who isn't officially part of their church. So what's the deal?
Hmm. I can't imagine where that may be happening. In my parish we welcome EVERYONE.
They are Russian agents.
22:17 - I paused here so maybe it's addressed later in the video, but does modern culture struggle with a loss of our ability to precieve or have we lost our willingness to engage?
I feel like they may be the same thing. Perception seems to be a participatory process, Jordan Peterson and Iain McGilchrist independently allude to this.
oh wow McGilchrist was mentioned a few seconds after 22:35
Christ is King.👑
Very interesting stuff! 👍👍
Psychedelics can open us to a deeper sense of reality and connect us with an authentic spirituality, particularly if you have developed a spiritual sense of north. As a Christian, my faith and commitment to Jesus' teachings are more a part of the daily struggles of my life because these experiences have helped open me to God. The work of this comes after psychedelic trips, in the day-to-day activities of life, the same as in attending mass.
Great conversation! Johnathan, you should try getting Timothy Alberino on an episode, regarding his book Birthright. I think that would be a really interesting conversation 👍
Excellent.
Earth and heaven shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away!
No matter how many times Christianity dies a close death- the Dark Ages, Renaissance, thru 16-19th centuries-God resurrected.
We humans of modern times can’t imagine another order, unless it is another world of the dark apocalyptic age.
God is here! We praying & searching souls know Christ Jesus truly is for us.
Jesus (Yeshua) died for all, only few want Him as He truly is. They want a baby in the manger turned concierge. They don't want to pick up their cross and actually follow Him.
I have enormous respect for both Pageau and Dreher. I’ve read several of Dreher’s books and am very sympathetic to their overall message.
However…
Not all of us will be able to accept Christianity, or ANY Abrahamic religion. We fully embrace God or some intuition of an ultimate spiritual ground to existence superior to any materialistic explanation, but we are not convinced by Christ and the Christological accounts of him that he generated.
The inevitable road to spiritual discovery that leaves to us is many of the Hindu or Buddhist paths, principally. Secondarily, it opens up as a legitimate alternative is the thriving and rich esoteric traditions of the west, from Neoplatonism and Gnosticism to alchemical and magical and even a few neopagan traditions.
There is no need to fear them. They are spiritual traditions just like Christian ones. They need to be respected. They are not demonic unless the practitioner employs them to demonic ends. Evil people are a problem in every tradition, from Catholic and Orthodox and Jewish to mages and witches.
I should be VERY careful, if I were Catholic, Orthodox or Protestant, about attributing demonic influences to non-Christian paths.
Because when we talk about what is demonic I am more inclined to apply that epithet to the followers of The Prince of Peace, who, between 1618 and 1648 piously slaughtered over 8 million of their fellow Christians based on whether they acknowledged a pope or not. Or the 2 million murdered in the French War of Religion of the 16th century. Or the Black Hundreds of late Czarist Russia, looting, raping and often murdering Jewish subjects of the Czar, the drunken, pious Orthodox mobs led by praying Orthodox priests blessing their crimes.
Compared to THAT you DARE call some Goth girl burning herbs on an alter on the Solstice and chanting invocations to her Goddess “demonic”???!!!
I recommend "Cracks in the Great Wall" by Charles Upton if you're looking a very accessible book about Aliens from a Traditionalist/Perennialist perspective. He goes into Jacques Vallée's writings too, which were discussed in this video.
The channel Holy Resurrection has a playlist on Nepsis, spiritual vigilance, or awareness that I highly recommend.
Thanks so much for this, looking forward to reading Rods new book! (Also, can you turn the Captions feature back on, Jonathan? Some of us *ahem* Boomers need to read along while listening.....😅🙃
"Touch Grass" big take away.
I’ll have to read the book, but what is the correlation between enchantment in Mr Dreher’s usage, and salvation/sanctification? It presents to me as if enchantment is the capture of the soul by the revelation of God.
43:01
I wonder what the statistics are for all podcast "viewership" that's actually intently focusing on the media itself. I have to pause this to type a comment or if i read something on my screen because i can tell I am not retaining during thise activities. Very scary.
This was really good.
Thank you!
Diana Pusulka and Pageau would be really entertaining
Who else had a presence in their room a couple days after listening to this?
I don't know what's with Rod, but he seems to drag something with him he's unaware of
"AI as high-tech Ouija board" - I never thought about it in this way.
If an alien ever comes into our house it will fall over our shoes.
😂😂😂
You’re not lying😂
As long as we don’t have to eat wonder bread.
😂😂😂
I’m imagining demons stepping on Legos in the dark.
Atheist for most of my life. Started reading the Bible (at the recommendation of Christopher Hitchens no less) as I loved English Literature.
A year or so later, I was in a bad place and took 3 tabs of acid and bizarrely fell asleep. Woke up in the middle of a trip. I experienced what I can only describe as vision-thoughts I could see and yet they were not completely visible. I saw a creature with a human face and spider's legs in the corner of the room. It was then that I noticed the cables all around the house. A dreadful Web. I then tried to watch a video to distract me. Clicked on the first thing. It was a video of a man with a disease that rendered him stuck in a child's body. The face was exactly the same as that of the creature I had 'seen' earlier.
I knew nothing of demonology and very little about depictions of such things. I have also seen a 'UFO' very clearly. Have also had Christ experiences in the time since. Whatever you think about it, this stuff is going on. Now I'm sober, and feel I am inevitably moving towards Christ. Mad times.
Wonder is a powerful remedy for nihilism, and a great source of meaning. Wonder is the Great Spirit of science.
i just ordered the book. I'm curious what it has to say about attention.
Couldn’t seeing a demon be an archetype? A psychic projection? I just don’t understand the difference. Is Kant to blame for the distance towards noumena? I have bought Kants commentary on Swedenborg (Dreams of a spirit-seer); I haven’t read it yet, although he makes the Occam's razor argument. I agree - the occult is irrational and disturbing. Psychologists advocating for "manifesting" on Swedish television etc.
I listened to the whole book steadily. I am 59 and am open to new ways of seeing reality. I never really went for UFO's and AI although trans humanism fits into this matrix. Parts of the book were moody, and frightening. But it was an exhilarating read and got me thinking. I believe the thesis that we as western christians are missing a part of spiritual reality although Pentecostalism has more of a pre modern outlook but there is a lot of chicanery and deception and false speaking in tongues, healing or raising from the dead. My worry is thinking of reality in an untrue manner which in turn makes me foolish.
You should read "Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future" by Fr Seraphim Rose. Covers New age hinduism, UFOs, and charismaticism.
@@mitch0990 Thanks-I will look into it.
🤝👍wielkie👍PiĘĆ👍DZiĘKUjĘ👍🤝
I don't know if Jonathan picks the titles or not but the use of the word "wonder" gives me HR vibes. Like the words wholesome and diversity.
You can use the words man, words are not trademarked.
@dontbothertoreply9755 Connotation matters.
@@bradspitt3896it's the name of the guest's book
@@sempelpang I know, it doesn't change the wonder tale, wonder whatever I keep hearing. Sounds like hr talk.
These two clearly believe in something more than materialism. What am I missing? What is wrong with me? I just can’t seem to buy into it all (although I find it fascinating and would be delighted to find out there is more to life than what science tells us).
Will Rod's new book ever be available on audible in the UK?
Trying to get the audible version of the book, though looks like it's no longer listed. Does anyone know where I can get an audio version of the book? The physical edition is $150 when amazon adds shipping and custom fees for my country :(
JOHNATHAN HECKIN PAGEAU 😮 LETS GOOO 🎉🎉😂
Thanks
Rod Dreher is a treasure huh
This may be an odd connection, but the part of the discussion about the UFOs that various government officials believe are trans-dimensional beings reminds me of the Space Boy comic by Stephen McCranie.
24:10 not only does Christianity ask you to be celibate or fast, but Christ commands us to LAY DOWN OUR LIFE FOR ANOTHER. We are to proclaim Christ as Lord to death, and die for another in the name of justice.
young generations can't get through films anymore not because they don't have the attention span but because the coasting peace time that we had post ww2 isnt what we're in anymore, and lacking something to cohere around we find less meaning in films. i mean, nacho libre? really? its like how you're saying young people already saw the writing on the wall about the futility of trying to make the church save us, like movies are going through that shift.
39:40. Hyperstition is basically what he's talking about here. I learned about it through Nick Land.
If Jordan Peterson is Kermit, Rod Dreher is Fozzie Bear
He’s James Murphy from LCD Soundsystem
Project Blue Beam. It’s been a theory for a very long time, and he’s totally right. It’s comin.
I really struggle with the idea of anything enchanted from angels to ghosts to aliens to God himself. The only really unusual phenomena that has me somewhat convinced in terms of being real is crop circles because, even though it has it’s skeptics casting doubt by saying it’s done by groups of people with planks and ropes, the explanation isn’t suitable. When people with boards and ropes do create crop circles they are messy, it takes them a long time to do something even basic, and it damages the crops, where as the ‘real’ crop circles appear quickly, are very intricate and the crops are not broken. I still struggle with what it is and what it means and even doubt it from time to time thinking I’m being lied to and taken in, but so far for me it’s the most convincing phenomena.
Will this end up with the return of witch hunts?
So the Dark side shows itself and seeks a connection, but the opposite doesn't?
Well then what are miracles? What about saints? I think that your assessment is based on your religious disposition.
@JordanBrown-km5kf
I've met people who have had UFO and other encounters - no Angels or miracles.
Rod Dreher, a 57 year old father of three, spends a not-inconsiderable amount of time each morning styling his hair.
Judge not lest you be judged
😂
I like it. You should see my hair. Luckily I am merely a viewer😂
@RunninUpThatHillh as he spent a not-inconsiderable amount of time styling it, Rod would no doubt be pleased that you like it. These considerations matter to him.
The best thing that EVER happened to me was abandoning modernity, materialism, enlightenment “rationalism”. Finally free!!!
My initial knee-jerk reaction to the idea that Alex Jones was run out of business and now mainstream media is talking about some of his theories, such as this idea of interdimensional beings, is that it is nothing more than a business model: they got rid of the competition and now they're giving the market what it wants.
I think it's mostly noise and distraction. That's just my initial knee-jerk reaction though.
And that is a reaction just to the very beginning introduction of the video.
I watch the rest of it now.
As a Californian I get a good laugh out of saying "California Buddhist". I remember a song many years ago "with my plastic Jesus on the dashboard of my car" now replaced by a Buddha.
I miss Heiser so much lol.
Fr Stephen 😊
Childhood's End - Arthur C Clarke
Isn't Halloween one of the events that promotes such dark "reenchantment"?
If you recognise only the brighter side - children mascarading as Iron men - you can say: come on, what's wrong with it?! But if you consider the darker side - children mascarading as vampires, witches and devil himself - you will start asking a lot of questions, among which:
Does Halloween promote the dark "reenchantment" happening nowadays?
Doesn't children mascarading as dark forces (directly or symbolically) actually invite them in their life?
Doesn't this event teach not to recognize the difference between dark forces and Angels and all kinds of other good real or symbolically expressed characters? And here again we return to the first question...
Love this, absolutely incredible conversation. But maybe, just maybe, Cartesian/Augustinian/Platonic dualism is the real problem. That philosophy is certainly not the Jewish, non-pagan worldview Jesus used.
I bought his new book out of curiosity, and while it had a lot of good perspectives and thoughts I found valuable, I found plenty to be skeptical about. The whole "demonic UFOs and AI" angle came quite out of left field, and kind of gave off conspiracy-huffing vibes, honestly, the kind of thing I'd expect more from the likes of Alex Jones. He even takes the Holy Fire seriously, which was another red flag. All things considered though, it was okay and I don't regret buying it.
Before the 20th century, UFOs were in the realm of the occult, not understood in technological terms.
Aliens can tell me anything they want. I'll have to preach the Gospel to them.