Standard Star Fleet Attack Procedure: 1. Do a lot of fancy maneuvering. 2. Take at least 6 hits from enemy vessels. 3. Fire ONCE. 4. Ask Worf for a status report. 5. Repeat.
Didn't Seven say in Dark Frontier that the borg will destroy a perceived threat? This ship attacked them, just blow it up Only if they are on the hunt do they assimilate
The Borg were still inducing fear into the crew by this point, but they also acquired a lot of experience in battling them. The ship was also upgraded by future Drone One in season 5, the ship got more tactical updates from Starfleet via Pathfinder prior to Unimatrix Zero episode) and 7 of 9 was onboard... all of these things would have given VOY a serious upper hand - but it was still outmatched by the Borg.
I so agree! I get so pissed at everyone dissing my show. They criticize everything. The only problem I had with it was I hated the Borg. And you know what else? It would have been canceled the first season had Kate Mulgrew not been cast as Janeway at last minute. She played her beautifully.
But a small Federation ship defeating the Borg is as ludicrous as a small X-Wing blowing up the Death Star! Nothing silly would ever happen on any other "Star Trek" series! Now, off to watch TNG with Barclay the spider and the giant floating head.
The shocking thing is that they didn’t keep building delta flyers until the shuttle bay was full of them. Trade away the old shuttles for more supplies from locals, such as the raw ores to build more flyers.
@@WatchThis-ek2og Since they were able to build the DF in under a week under pressure, building a new one in 2 weeks with normal crew rotations (not pulliing double shifts) would be nothing. We don't know how much time passed since Unimatrix 0 part II and the next episode, so even if it was a week, the crew already had the experience of building the Flyer once... making it the second time around wouldn't be a problem. By this point in the series, the ship has been using replicators more regularly for stuff like this since season 3 or 4 and traded with many species for raw materials (also the ship likely made pit stops in uninhabited systems or scoured asteroids for raw materials).
I think something that a lot of people are forgetting is that Seven of Nine knows pretty much everything there is to know about the Borg, so it's possible that she enhanced some of Voyager's systems before the battle. That may explain a little bit as to how Voyager lasted so long against the Cube. I mean how else could they have lasted that long?
ronnygk Best explanation I can think of. Voyager can fit inside of a sphere, which fits inside of a cube. VOY is a small ship no matter how enhanced it was before the fight. A borg tractor beam......and the series would have ended in this episode.
@@Trainer319 Voyager armor was holographic ablative armor. In the first season holographic emitters were used to confuse the Kazon Nistrum fleet with 3 holographic talaxian fighters to spread incoming firepower The first contact with starfleet they say what things they were sent and one were the plans for ablative armor. The admiral developed a way to combine holographic emitters programmed with ablative specs. When a section is damaged the hologram re--engages automatically provided you can feed it enough energy. Aka they got the power from the shields. because they didn't need them.
I'm not sure I like how a Borg cube went from a giant fleet killer and a threat to entire civilizations to a ship that voyager could go toe to toe with little effort. This whole battle sequence would have looked more believable against a Romulan war bird.
That and once Janeway was assimilated the cube would have had the command codes to bypass voyagers systems and render their shields useless, warp core breach bye bye ship. Star Trek has so many conflicting continuity issues but at the end of the day if you're a fan you just roll with it. ha.
@@satsuinotanden Yeah that's true. There were some consistency issues on TNG and DS9 but nowhere near as many as Voyager had. But yeah, I still enjoyed it.
Bitchslapper316 yeah I’m kinda with you but I love VOY so much especially when they kick Borg ass ..... but yeah it did make the Borg look a bit weaker than TNG Borg even though you could use the idea that by the time VOY was built it was a lot better equipped to deal with the Borg since they federation had time to make upgrades etc
@@-M0LE I did like the show a lot, I just wish they stayed more consistent. Voyager had no business going toe to toe with a borg battle cube. It worked fine for me in the series finale because of the admiral Janeway future tech explanation but I didn't buy it in this episode. In the episode "drone" the borg were a bit more consistent, the small borg sphere overpowered voyager and was going to capture it until the future tech drone stepped in and saved them. I personally would have rather had them stay away from the borg stories until the series finale and focus more on other alien races, voyager created a lot of interesting ones I would have like to see more of. I would have liked to see a follow up to the Voth storyline they made in "distant origins" over another borg story arc. Anyhow it is what it is and I did enjoy it, hopefully some of this new trek coming up can live up to DS9, TNG and VOY.
Voyager was the series that got me into Trek when I was small. I loved seeing Janeway kick ass. Now looking back, I see how it could have been so much more. This part is a good example. There's no need for a single Starfleet ship (no matter how advanced) to take on the most powerful vessel produced by the Borg. Sadly, the writers even pointed this out in the show when The Doctor said: 'Can't we find something less imposing? A sphere, maybe?' Why not have Voyager go toe-to-toe with a sphere? It would be a comparable fight and not look so silly.
@@froschreiniger2639 You do realize that they were just distracting them, right? They didn't "take them on" per se. It was all a distraction to allow the away team to get assimilated.
This is the first and only appearance of the tactical cube in canon. I think it likely the showrunners wanted something new and big and imposing looking for the TV promos rather than a sphere which we'd all seen before multiple times. Not to mention introducing the tactical cube helped fill out the Borg roster for Star Trek Armada. That said, I totally agree this battle is ridiculous and badly choreographed to boot (the CG doesn't line up with what Harry is saying).
@@michaelvedal1907 so?! They were still taking the full firepower of that cube. If a standard cube can own a Galaxy, then a tactical cube should decimate Voyager.
Borg in TNG: It only takes 1 Borg ray to destroy the entire engineering deck of the Enterprise, a massive Galaxy class ship. Borg in Voy: It takes 4 borg torpedoes to destroy a small shuttle. Now that's nerfing.
Nah, the Voyager hull has a smaller signature radius and greater agility. Coupled with navigation that optimises traversal, the Borg weapons tracking is going to struggle to apply effective DPS in the same way. That's the way it works in Eve Online at least :)
You also have to consider that Voyager is a far more modern ship when compared to the Enterprise, and that by this point their ship has undergone extensive modification, including Borg technology, which has made them a far more hardy ship. That and.... cough.... plot armour. :P
DkHaku the Intrepid class was meant to take a beating. Most of Sisko's fleet were not warships to start with, plus their enemies were the fiercest conqurers in the universe- the Dominion, Cardassian and the Breen. The Cardassians alone could be a match for the Federation if at full strength.
SantomPh Nah the Cardassians weren't a match for the Federation even at full strength; 1 Galaxy class could easily match 3 Galor class warships. Then again, I don't think the Federation had nearly as many Galaxy class as they'd have liked. Although Excelsior class weren't slouches either, but why they're still using Mirandas I don't know.
-The outpost from the planet scooped clean off by the borg in BoBW.. -Wolf 359 over 40 ships.. -Plus they adapted to the graviton pulse ultra quick after assimilating Picard in BoBW2 (TNG).. -Sector 001 over 13 ships ( Plus more at earth's perimeter defenses like mars and Jupiter stations) there with improved weaponry plus they could easily cripple the defiant even despite it being designed for the borg in specific.. -Also remember the Hanson's (Seven's parents) who set out to study the borg? Voyager also had their logs to study with 7 of 9's help.. -Also remember in voyager when we saw the queen for the first time she always used voyager as an achilles heal by saying join us or I will destroy/assimilate them, which basically meant the collective was intentionally ignoring voyager and observing even in "End Game" before future Janeway came to the rescue.. So I would conclude the Borg were not watered down but basically ignored by the Borg because, 1.They did not pose that great a threat being the only starfleet vessel in the Quadrant. 2.Then Queen intentionally was letting them live. (Probably to study humans more closely and adapt?)
Stanimir Georgiev No, I mean the time that they were ambushed by two B'rel class BoP owned by Ferengi in one of TNG episode, it's a lot quicker than against that 120 years old BoP.
+Dr Galactose Voyager is a newer ship than Enterprise D and Captain Picard never had a borg as a officer on his ship like Janeway does. lol I'm sure after Picard;s first few battles against the Borg star fleet started building better ships to handle the borg then add Seven of Nines knowledge of the borg that should at least give Janeway a fighting chance. It Isn't like Voyager was going toe to toe with the tactical cube, they were mostly trying to distract them.
Could also just be that increasing yield past the recommended amount incurs risk of damage to the phasers, or even the entire ship, so it makes sense they need to be ordered so in an emergency situation.
Yield isn't the amount of power, they're literally increasing the amount of explosives (in this case, antimatter) INSIDE the warhead. While I agree not having them stuffed full to begin with, during a fight with a tac cube is silly... antimatter is kind of important, and not all that easy to come by.
"Forward shields are down". Next scene, voyager takes a hit right to the nose and it bounces off the shields. And they took a hit right to a nacelle and they said they were venting plasma...but warp drive works fine! Isn't Borg SOP to grab you with a tractor beam as well? Was the drone in charge of the tractor on break? Call me a nerd but the writers for this show were sloppy as shit. This is why voyager got a bad rap.
Yes it should have shown the leak earlier and then had a line saying Harry had locked down the leak and warp drive is still online. not have them say there is a leak and then get shot and show the leak afterwards - that is silly editing
?? The Excelsiors facing the Cube at Wolf 395 were unprepared because Picard was assimilated and the Borg knew how to bypass all their defenses. The USS Lakota got massive upgrades before the war with the Dominion began, and that only got the ships up to scratch to fight in the conflict and increase their odds of survival (incidentally the Lakota was a bit more powerful than even the Defiant because of those upgrades)... every ship was getting flaked by orbital defences - and this was years AFTER the massacre of Wolf 359. The Delta Flyer used Borg inspired weaponry and shields... and it only took 4 torpedoes to destroy it...
@@WatchThis-ek2og Yes exactly, Seven used her insight to equip the Flyer with Borg shield technology, also this episode is from season 6, in season 5 episode: 'Drone' , a futuristic Borg enchanted voyagers weapons and defences against the Borg the best it could, not game changing enhancements, but still enough to hang around a little longer in a fire fight with them.
@@WatchThis-ek2og The shield enhancements are are derived from sevens knowledge of Borg technology, there is no rule that shield impacts should flash green on impact, this is federation technology augmented with Borg technology, not a Borg shield generator transplanted straight from a Borg Vessel.
Voyager really needed Quantum torpedoes. That would have helped in many cases. Wonder, after they had contact with Starfleet through the Hirogen array, if it was possible to get the designs and make their own????
The ship was enhanced in S5 by 29th century Drone and the crew did get tactical updates from Starfleet via parhfinder a few episodes prior to this one. While I have no doubt that making their own Quantum torpedoes would be doable, it might be a bit challenging in space - they would probably have to find an uninhabited star system for a week or two and set up modular production facilities to make Quantum torpedoes. At the very least, they could have used this method to replenish their Photon torpedoes (antimatter could be either traded for or created in small quantities via the method I described above). I don't know if Quantum torpedoes require more specialized facilities to produce though. Probably not since their design is not that different from Photon torpedoes size-wise... the main difference would be in the technology the torpedoes use. Not sure what kind of tech is needed to make them... possibly something VOY didn't have or would need to expend a lot of time and resources to otherwise make... which they could again do with the above method, but then its possible it takes a lot of time. I don't think the crew would be comfortable sitting on their hands for over a month. A few weeks is fine... but months? Not likely. With enough time, the ship could probably create a massive enough facility with automation etc that runs off Solar power... but again, setting all of that up would be time consuming. If the structure was modular enough so it can be assembled on site instantly and then just churn away.... that's one thing, but if it takes long time to make the warhead itself for the Quantum Torpedo (which is not antimatter based) then it would likely take too long and be impractical. Sure, even 6 months is nothing in the face of 30 odd years (At this point in the series), and it could have actually presented an interesting story telling - keep the ship stationed for half a season or one quarter of a season and use shuttles and the flyer in that time frame while VOY constructed a modular facility in a star system to conduct maintenance, repairs, upgrades and manufactured both Photon and Quantum torpedoes.
Are we going to ignore the fact that the Delta Flyer. A shuttle almost the size of a starfleet runabout took 3 torpedo hits from a tactical and its shields still held till the last shot.
@@MDE_never_diesif the Borg themselves constructed the Delta Flyer, you'd expect a tactical cube to destroy it instantly. We are talking 28 cubic kilometres, a truly staggering volume capable of housing an entire city, compared with a couple of small rooms manned by a few crew. You could fit millions of DF inside the cube, 20 million after researching its dimensions. Borg cubes are feared more for their size than their technology, the fleet at Wolf 359 was a tiny fraction of its volume. Seven's enhancements aren't magic, if the Borg had such magic they'd never lose that cube at earth, or have a huge (compared to Starfleet) sphere be destroyed by just four quantum torpedoes. You could fit over a hundred voyagers inside a sphere. Only way DF can generate such massive power in that tiny space is if Seven invented ZPMs.
If they had 45 caliber Thompson Sub-machine-guns “Tommy Guns” the Borg can’t adapt to projectile weapons. Just like captain Picard did in some movie in the hollodeck. Or however it’s spelled. Long live gunpowder!!!
Ballistic and bladed weapons should've been added to every shipboard armory after Starfleet came into contact with the Borg. Swords and machine guns should've been everywhere. I mean, there was that one DS9 episode where Ezri was trying to catch that serial killer who was killing people with a ballistic rifle that transported rounds through bulkheads. Seems that'd be a good weapon to have when dealing with the Borg.
shit..why not get a bit more high tech...and use some rail gun pistols or rifles...the only thing stopping us from having them is battery size. star trek should have guns that shoot bullets that will shoot thru schools. or just give a droid a pair of m-60s ,,they could stand the recoil and carry a shit ton of ammo. just shred the borg.. and by the same token...they could use cannon to fire at ships.
The Borg could have destroyed Voyager whenever they wanted but they let them go and they let Seven go to Voyager this is clearly stated by the Queen in that episode when she makes Seven return to the collective and she says to Janeway in an episode and another where a cube reports Voyager's position to the queen and she says to let them continue. I don't think it was ever explained why she let them go.
uhm... nope. Even this here tactical cube later on STRUGGLES against the Voyager, and that thing is several times as powerfull as the one that ended 39 federation starships in mere monments. Why? Simply because of multiphasic shielding PLUS no locutus to tell them about the Intrepid classes features and all. The Voyager would 1v1 the Enterprise D from back then with quiet the ease. Remember Voyager as well as all her sisters (the two canon known are the Intrepid and the Belerophone) are build for WAR and Deep Space Long Range Exploration. So their adequatly equiped to deal with ANY THREAT including borg. If at all the Intrepid was build to be a leader ship for them sabre's and Defiants, being larger but equaly fast and armed. Voyager cant beat them in 1v1, but can survive for an extended period of time against them.
@@christianresel8051 Plus VOY was also enhanced by One back in Season 5 (29th century Drone) and VOY got SF tactical updates via Pathfinder a few episodes before this one. This only allowed VOY to survive in a conflict against the cube for a bit longer than it normally would have and VOY still lost the Flyer and got its front shields penetrated and still got damaged a bit - but the crew did plan this battle so the main priority would have been to survive long enough to deploy the away team and keep the Warp drive online). I don't think the cube struggled against voyager, it was that VOY was flying around the cube quickly, and 7 was likely helping the ship in evading the tractor beam and preventing the Borg from beaming in.
Rea Ality well to be fair, the enterprise was the cube’s primary target, and then earth whereas voyager was a random unexpected nuisance. Tactical cubes probably don’t do nearly as much assimilating as regular cubes do because it’s not their role which might be why the cube didn’t pursue voyager, but your point is still valid. This fight was cool but very stupid because voyager should not have lasted more than 2 seconds against a tactical cube. And voyager has taken far less damage in the past and still had their warp drive disabled.
They were venting plasma from their warp nacelle. That usually causes most federation starships to explode. Like, how many times did the Enterprise D blow up because something hit its nacelle and caused a warp core reactor overload? There was an entire God Damn episode of ST:TNG devoted that very thing. It guest starred Kelsey Grammar.
borg were always something to be feared, a huge menace, and almost impossible to defeat... in voyager they seem almost equal to federation... and they even formed an alliance in one episode, something the borg would never do "resistance is futile" became an empty threat fast on voyager.
You realize of course the circumstances were very different on VOY. For one thing, the Borg formed a temporary alliance with VOY because the crew developed a weapon to fight 8472 on a cellular level (something the Borg couldn't do). Assimilating the crew would have prevented them from further innovation and improving the weapons furhter. Also in every conflict with the Borg, the ship barely got out alive. So no, the Borg were never an empty threat on VOY. the ship also got enhancements by 20th century drone One in season 5, tactical updates from Starfleet via pathfinder a few episodes before this one, and other modifications, plus it had 7 on board who was helpin. all it did was allow VOY to barely escape these situations... it still got a beating, and it lost the shuttle too.
Every boarding party to a borg cude should take Ba'thlets. Worf always enjoyed it. Also mighty nice of the queen to watch everything on a monitor so we could watch. Otherwise I'd think she could just plug into something and see it in her head. Or maybe they have Borgcube for close wireless comms. 😂😂
I love how The Borg were an extremely feared enemy capable of wiping out entire fleets with just one cube...but Voyager and her crew? Nah theyre go out brawling with them for fun 🤣
Not one weld in the outer hull to be seen even after 7 years of hull breaches, lost deck plating, structural damage. And the hull electroplate coatings still like new all over. Maintenance workshop must be simply outstanding.
The Borg in Voyager are totally underated.. in my opinion also in Star Trek NG... if you compare a Borg Cube with DS 9 then you see the following. DS9 has 84 phaser, 48 torpedo launcher and 6 fusion-reactors. Place on a plattform 1,45 kilometers diameter and about 200 m high... so on DS9 there is about 0,6 cubic kilometer space to deploy equipment. A borg cube has a mass of 27 cubic kilometer... if they use the same technology a Borg Cube should have about 3600 Phaser, 2050 torpedo launchers and 256 fusion reactors. And the Borg are more advanced and don't need things like a promenade... Voyager, even a hole fleet, wouldn't stand more than 10 seconds against such a cube! A cube should be able to fire like at least 40 DS9 stations! And could you imagine the strength of a shield which is powered by 256 fusion reactors?!
Tactical Cubes are smaller than the normal cubes, but were created to be impervious to Species 8472 (Or whatever you call them)'s lasers, Now THATS powerful
I have found different information about the size of a Tactical Cube. See memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_cube or www.ditl.org/ship-page.php?ClassID=brgtacticalcube&ListID=Ships&ListOption=otherak, there it is listed with about 3000x3000x3000m or 1500x1500x1500m (just found it in a discussion in some forums) => but it makes no difference... also a Tactical Cube has at least the firepower and shilds of 20 DS9 stations... and if you look at some battles (Dominion or Klingon attack on DS9) you see what damage DS9 can do and how many hits it can take! It would be just undefeatable for Voyager... even without weapons, a Cube could just pile them without any troubles.
The Voyager was enhanged BY the borg during the short alliance against Species 8472. The other intrepids don't have the facilities (I guess they were even able to build bigger replicators so they can replace big things like torpodoes). But many of them got adapted after Voyager came home to Earth.
Well, in the non-kanon Star Trek Online the new ships are kind of this adaptions. I've seen one mission in a Let's play, where they were easily able to destroy a Species 8472 ship with only 5-6 ships, I don't think they would have been able to do it without the know how the Voyager brought home. In Canon we have the problem that the only other movie taking place after the return of Voyager is Nemesis and there we have a ship already 15 years old at that time ;)
Janeway's cunning plan, getting herself and crew assimilated. The process that usually involves the removal of a limb and eye, plus other invasive procedures. And when the episode is over, they're back to normal.
According to Panel 3 at Vegas Con 2017, The official explanation is that they were looking to make a "Kerrigan" type character for the Borg. What the fans believed to be the case all these years is that the Borg as a collective were truly just that, a collective. A singular directive for self improvement. They weren't a menace on purpose. It was simply a runaway program. The queen makes the Borg look like they're on a conquest for universal domination. They leave certain species under certain conditions and don't necessarily assimilate "every bit" of a species. If they could assimilate a portion of the Klingon Empire, they would leave some of it alone as a means of preservation and simply move on. Unlucky for Guinan's people, they were just 1 faction.
I overall liked Voyager, but one thing I hated is the borg are kind of pushovers on it, which just felt off after seeing them in TNG where they were so OP that a single standard cube threatened the whole Federation. Though, I did like seeing them more, so it kind of balanced out I suppose.
The one thing to note is that the intrepid class star ship was developed after the events of TNG. So you could argue the federation had "adapted" to both technology and therefore while the Borg were still a threat, they were not as much of a threat.
@@NN2484it still goes against what Q originally told Picard about the Borg which was that Starfleet is at least 200 years away from being strong enough to survive the Borg.
The end results have been pretty stable for CGI since roughly 2005 or even a little before it was just the render time that has got shorter and some little tweaks that enhance realism - the Undine (species 8472) didn't age so well - but their digital background humans are pretty good I wouldn't notice them 90% of the time. But Yes Voyager is a lot better looking that your typical 1990's TV CGI that is for sure. Enterprise' model (the NX-01) is so high detail that it fools some people into thinking it's a physical model. So I hate to say it but yes Discovery is going to realise it going to be compared to a decade old show like Enterprise and might possibly be found wanting unless the CGI is really top notch.
Borg went from being an almost unstoppable juggernaut in TNG to being equal in firepower to the Kazon in Voyager! Couldn't stand how they water downed the Borg in this series!
The reason why borg couldn't take over earth was because Q prevent this. You never know the status of the borg cube or the firepower of voyager. From the enterprise to voyager technology has greatly advanced since, also they are in the alpha quadrent, it's dog eats dog also in the series where 8472 Katherine confirms the borg can't think outside the box. The borg have plenty of weaknesses. Voyager fights plenty of borg vessels they may have used some of there spoils as a tool. (:
Totally agree with hmrhuang, what's worse is how the series ended with Voyager getting advanced technology from the future.....the Borg had technology to time travel too (First Contact for example) why wouldn't the Borg just go back in time and give the technology to themselves?
I’ve always wondered why Starfleet wouldn’t just remotely pilot a galaxy class size ship straight into the side of a Borg ship at warp 9. The always eminent warp core breach would destroy what is left from the inside out!!
Equip Galaxy classes with that one phased cloaking device from the Pegasus incident and remote fly them right into the core of Borg vessels and detonate them.
Nah, just jury rig warp cores into makeshift torpedo warheads and fire those bad bouys at teh Borg rubes. When sh*t breaches, it blows. Lot less expensive in paid man hours than the whole ship and shebang.
Yup no consequences for anything. There’s a supercut somewhere where someone says early on that they only have about 30 torpedoes on the ship and no way to get more. Then they proceed to show every one of the hundreds of torpedoes fired in this series. No consistency and no stakes, thats why voyager failed
keep in mind this is after the episode where the 29th century drone massively improved the shields and weapons of voyager, a tactical cube is still a bit of a stretch but it has some reasoning why they are so strong
LostMercenary99 tactical knowledge ? Seven of nine knows how to attack a Borg cube or to at least destabilise their shields which it seems to be their aim.
Old but needed: a Borg Cube is a serious threat, needing almost an entire fleet to take one out. And after the encounter with the species from fluidic space, the Tactical Cube was made to resist their laser, Now that is a powerful Cube. Voyager somehow survived against a Tactical Cube. Bull SHIT!
In "First Contact" a whole fleet can hardly defeat a regular borg cube with lots of casualties, but a single middle class federation ship with limited weaponry can fight against a tactical borg cube.
A Borg cube is like the streets of London, camera's everywhere. Ironically, given how fast the Borg adapt to laser weapons, traditional bullets would probably be more use.
Janeway should have had Chekote transport the malfunctioning food replicator from her quarters into the Borg cube, so it could spit out burnt pot roasts and hot coffee and PBJ sandwiches at the drones, slowing them down.
Jake Hayes I know why you mean dude. And like I know you originally wrote this comment three years ago mate. But I have literally always thought the same thing.
No....get that mind out of the gutter. 😂 I loved and hated this scene at the same time. I didn’t like the fact that they got assimilated. But loved the fighting sequences and Voyager’s jump to warp.
Ton of hits from a borg cube with shields down, venting plasma, hull breach... Still able to warp out just fine. ...any other random damage "warp drive is offline!"
I'm curious how, no matter what show it's on, every time there's damage to a ship, there's some dirt among the wreckage. Where's the dirt come from? Aren't spaceships usually as sterile as possible? Just asking.
True but look how long stargate ships last, they can hang in against wraith hive ships ten times their size for quite a while. And look at Bridge Commander and ST:O, how long your shields can last, far longer than on the tv series.
Yeah, but they have superior tech to the wraith. better shields to none for the wraith. Here, the intrepid is so outmatched its ridiculous. inferior tech in every way.
Yeah, I think this episode holds the record for the most plot holes and star trek universe inconsistencies. One of them being that the have a nacelle plasma leak wich magicaly is fixed (no plasma smoke trail in later CGI) and the also shouldn't be able to create a enough of a stable warp field after that to jump out.
+pinoi78 Technology changes and after star fleets first few encounters with the borg they started building better ships not mention Janeway had a former borg on her ship that could improve her ship's capabilities to give her a fighting chance. Just like an Earth based military, they train and develop new technologies for their enemies everyday. So why wouldn't star fleet do the samething ?
+MrGrownman455 the borg adapts in seconds to things it would take the federation weeks, months or use to create. This is actually one of my favorite Voyager episodes because of the concept of Unimatrix Zero, but the fight with the tactical cube is not the episode's strong point since it breaks the suspension of disbelief.
+Ryeguy123a That is called "reverse engenieering" Take and advanced technological unkown object - disarm it and see how it's work - build a similar objet adapted to yours specifications -Gain a new technology. Janeway captures 7 of 9 and her borg technology, also the federation battles the borg at Wolf 359 with Picard and win several years before. I think the federation IS very well prepared for a Borg Tactical cube.
The queen is always so smug for someone who always eventually gets a beat down. :) Also, for a supposed far superior race, the Borg are sure having trouble destroying anything.
Borg cube arriving. Captain: Status Mister Helm. Sir, Borg cube arriving. Captain: Ok, Mister Helm. First Officer: Should we do something? Captain: Not yet, Number One. *BOOM* Captain: Status report. Tactics: Shields down to 20%. Captain: That's sad. Make useless standard maneuvers. *BOOM* Captain: Status report. Tactics: Shields down to 5%. Captain: Fire ONE Torpedo. Tactics: No effect. Captain: That's sad. Make useless standard maneuvers. *BOOM* Captain: Status report. Tactics: Shields down to 1%. Captain: We need a wonder. *Storytellers invent some strange wonders to fix storyline*
![[TH] VCT Masters Shanghai Playoffs DAY 4 // 100T vs GEN | G2 vs TH](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/UkTGSxdCUQw/mqdefault.jpg)
Standard Star Fleet Attack Procedure:
1. Do a lot of fancy maneuvering.
2. Take at least 6 hits from enemy vessels.
3. Fire ONCE.
4. Ask Worf for a status report.
5. Repeat.
Thanks for the laugh.....oh so right!
Your welcome!
Very true! Don't forget:4. Don't use maximum phaser yield.5. Use explosives in the manufacture of every console and component on the ship.
Dermot B always vent plasma from the port nacelle first!
That'll burn out the plasma conduits Captain! She'll blow if I dont have 45 minutes to warm up the anti-matter!
Damn Kim missed his calling at Tactical, throwing out everything battling a Tactical Cube
Not going to lie, seeing Janeway, Torres and Tuvok being assimilated freaked me out as a ten year old.
NevByte yeah it did me as well. But I was about 18 or 19 when this episode came out and it freaked me out when they got assimilated too.
@@Jeng4280 I was in between, I was somewhere from 12-15 yo. And yeah it was intense.
Seeing Picard transformed into Locutus, traumatized me as a child. I understand, equally as creepy to see them assimilated.
Yep. Seeing annikas backstory was what got me, her parents being kidnapped. Not fazed so much now but back then...
@@tompengelly8030 Yeah unfortunate that Annika had to pay her Parents stupid tax for ignoring Federation's warning to return home.
Kim has amazing foresight in this.
He says there's a nacelle plasma leak about 2 mins before it happens!
The music in this battle its just perfect!
Voyager's forward shields go down and the Borg DON'T beam over and immediately start assimilating the ship? No wonder this queen got recalled.
It's not like they ever NEEDED the shields down. 😅
@@TheEDFLegacy they did after DS9 (where they modified their shields to make Transporting through them impossible)
And the Borg don't bother grabbing the ship with the tractor beam either? 😂
Didn't Seven say in Dark Frontier that the borg will destroy a perceived threat? This ship attacked them, just blow it up
Only if they are on the hunt do they assimilate
@@karlfranzemperorofmandefil55477 of 9 was able to transport around the ship with the shields up somehow, and walk through them.
Janeway really sells the idea that assimilation is painful.
Amazed how they get scared of the borg in general and here you have voyager just come by and playing laser tag with them 😂
Agreed lol
The Borg were still inducing fear into the crew by this point, but they also acquired a lot of experience in battling them.
The ship was also upgraded by future Drone One in season 5, the ship got more tactical updates from Starfleet via Pathfinder prior to Unimatrix Zero episode) and 7 of 9 was onboard... all of these things would have given VOY a serious upper hand - but it was still outmatched by the Borg.
LMAO I pretty much just said the same thing
"Captain. I expected something more cunning from you." Apparently you didn't, or you wouldn't have fallen for this trick.
They should have used the photonic cannon.
Doctor! The doctor? Exterminate
That is two different episodes. lol
That episode was awesome!
That was a God teir moment as the kids say lol
Pity they didn't have the isokinetic cannon. Janeway gave up that too easy.
Everybody is so critical. I enjoyed Voyager. It served its purpose, which was to entertain. It wouldn't have Lasted 7 years if people didn't watch it.
I so agree! I get so pissed at everyone dissing my show. They criticize everything. The only problem I had with it was I hated the Borg. And you know what else? It would have been canceled the first season had Kate Mulgrew not been cast as Janeway at last minute. She played her beautifully.
But a small Federation ship defeating the Borg is as ludicrous as a small X-Wing blowing up the Death Star! Nothing silly would ever happen on any other "Star Trek" series! Now, off to watch TNG with Barclay the spider and the giant floating head.
Those were good episodes. "Giant floating head"---that's an amusing take-away.
@@Jeng4280 I loved the series, the crew, and Capt Janeway. It's only science fiction, entertainment. The critics take it way too seriously.
@@douglascouchot3430 yup. Basically, the fanboyz just didn't like a strong female as captain.
Star Fleet needs to make control consoles out of something else besides "Explodium"
Plus stop making internal structural members out of rockum.
Whoever has the contract for the gravity system should really have the contract for the whole ship.
The ship partly runs on steam power, hence all the burst steam conduits on the bridge
LOLOLOLOL
Ken P LOLOLOLOL
I love that shot of the DF getting destroyed, the detail in the shields failing on the third torpedo still holds up.
The Flyers destruction was shockingly unexpected when the episode was new, until they brought it back again like it never happened.
The shocking thing is that they didn’t keep building delta flyers until the shuttle bay was full of them. Trade away the old shuttles for more supplies from locals, such as the raw ores to build more flyers.
@@WatchThis-ek2og Since they were able to build the DF in under a week under pressure, building a new one in 2 weeks with normal crew rotations (not pulliing double shifts) would be nothing.
We don't know how much time passed since Unimatrix 0 part II and the next episode, so even if it was a week, the crew already had the experience of building the Flyer once... making it the second time around wouldn't be a problem.
By this point in the series, the ship has been using replicators more regularly for stuff like this since season 3 or 4 and traded with many species for raw materials (also the ship likely made pit stops in uninhabited systems or scoured asteroids for raw materials).
@@deksroning125even the interior of the new one looks different.
I think something that a lot of people are forgetting is that Seven of Nine knows pretty much everything there is to know about the Borg, so it's possible that she enhanced some of Voyager's systems before the battle. That may explain a little bit as to how Voyager lasted so long against the Cube. I mean how else could they have lasted that long?
ronnygk Best explanation I can think of. Voyager can fit inside of a sphere, which fits inside of a cube. VOY is a small ship no matter how enhanced it was before the fight. A borg tractor beam......and the series would have ended in this episode.
Plot armour 😉
@@Sovereign01 They saved that for the finale.
@@Trainer319 Voyager armor was holographic ablative armor. In the first season holographic emitters were used to confuse the Kazon Nistrum fleet with 3 holographic talaxian fighters to spread incoming firepower The first contact with starfleet they say what things they were sent and one were the plans for ablative armor. The admiral developed a way to combine holographic emitters programmed with ablative specs. When a section is damaged the hologram re--engages automatically provided you can feed it enough energy. Aka they got the power from the shields. because they didn't need them.
By this episode Voyager had been enhanced by One.
I'm not sure I like how a Borg cube went from a giant fleet killer and a threat to entire civilizations to a ship that voyager could go toe to toe with little effort. This whole battle sequence would have looked more believable against a Romulan war bird.
That and once Janeway was assimilated the cube would have had the command codes to bypass voyagers systems and render their shields useless, warp core breach bye bye ship. Star Trek has so many conflicting continuity issues but at the end of the day if you're a fan you just roll with it. ha.
@@satsuinotanden Yeah that's true. There were some consistency issues on TNG and DS9 but nowhere near as many as Voyager had. But yeah, I still enjoyed it.
Bitchslapper316 yeah I’m kinda with you but I love VOY so much especially when they kick Borg ass ..... but yeah it did make the Borg look a bit weaker than TNG Borg even though you could use the idea that by the time VOY was built it was a lot better equipped to deal with the Borg since they federation had time to make upgrades etc
Dread Lord Akuma no as voyager would have changed the codes
@@-M0LE I did like the show a lot, I just wish they stayed more consistent. Voyager had no business going toe to toe with a borg battle cube. It worked fine for me in the series finale because of the admiral Janeway future tech explanation but I didn't buy it in this episode. In the episode "drone" the borg were a bit more consistent, the small borg sphere overpowered voyager and was going to capture it until the future tech drone stepped in and saved them. I personally would have rather had them stay away from the borg stories until the series finale and focus more on other alien races, voyager created a lot of interesting ones I would have like to see more of. I would have liked to see a follow up to the Voth storyline they made in "distant origins" over another borg story arc. Anyhow it is what it is and I did enjoy it, hopefully some of this new trek coming up can live up to DS9, TNG and VOY.
Borg Queen should have a whitty quip... "Welcome a Borg, Captain..."
I'll see myself out.
And then every single Borg everywhere cringed themselves to death.
Voyager was the series that got me into Trek when I was small. I loved seeing Janeway kick ass.
Now looking back, I see how it could have been so much more. This part is a good example. There's no need for a single Starfleet ship (no matter how advanced) to take on the most powerful vessel produced by the Borg. Sadly, the writers even pointed this out in the show when The Doctor said: 'Can't we find something less imposing? A sphere, maybe?'
Why not have Voyager go toe-to-toe with a sphere? It would be a comparable fight and not look so silly.
yeah considering a single standart cube would rip a galaxy class to shreds in a minute
@@froschreiniger2639 You do realize that they were just distracting them, right? They didn't "take them on" per se. It was all a distraction to allow the away team to get assimilated.
This is the first and only appearance of the tactical cube in canon. I think it likely the showrunners wanted something new and big and imposing looking for the TV promos rather than a sphere which we'd all seen before multiple times. Not to mention introducing the tactical cube helped fill out the Borg roster for Star Trek Armada.
That said, I totally agree this battle is ridiculous and badly choreographed to boot (the CG doesn't line up with what Harry is saying).
@@michaelvedal1907 so?! They were still taking the full firepower of that cube. If a standard cube can own a Galaxy, then a tactical cube should decimate Voyager.
@@dynestis2875 True. But Voyager also had borg shielding thanks to Seven, so perhaps they can last longer against the borg.
Borg in TNG: It only takes 1 Borg ray to destroy the entire engineering deck of the Enterprise, a massive Galaxy class ship.
Borg in Voy: It takes 4 borg torpedoes to destroy a small shuttle.
Now that's nerfing.
Nah, the Voyager hull has a smaller signature radius and greater agility. Coupled with navigation that optimises traversal, the Borg weapons tracking is going to struggle to apply effective DPS in the same way. That's the way it works in Eve Online at least :)
You also have to consider that Voyager is a far more modern ship when compared to the Enterprise, and that by this point their ship has undergone extensive modification, including Borg technology, which has made them a far more hardy ship.
That and.... cough.... plot armour. :P
Don't forget, they had shields up.
@@johnratcliffe6438 I was going to say this isn't eve online before I got to the end of your comment haha.
>imaging actually defending VOY Borg
Voyager takes this much of a beating and then there's ships in the Dominion War (DS9) that can barely withstand single phaser hits...
I know what you mean, but the DS9 thing sadly was to high costs :/
DkHaku the Intrepid class was meant to take a beating. Most of Sisko's fleet were not warships to start with, plus their enemies were the fiercest conqurers in the universe- the Dominion, Cardassian and the Breen. The Cardassians alone could be a match for the Federation if at full strength.
SantomPh Nah the Cardassians weren't a match for the Federation even at full strength; 1 Galaxy class could easily match 3 Galor class warships.
Then again, I don't think the Federation had nearly as many Galaxy class as they'd have liked.
Although Excelsior class weren't slouches either, but why they're still using Mirandas I don't know.
SantomPh The Intrepid-class is a long range explorer. Not sure if that is really meant to take more beating than at least the Galaxys.
DkHaku Unless you're in the defiant with it's advanced, ablative plot armor.
-The outpost from the planet scooped clean off by the borg in BoBW..
-Wolf 359 over 40 ships..
-Plus they adapted to the graviton pulse ultra quick after assimilating Picard in BoBW2 (TNG)..
-Sector 001 over 13 ships ( Plus more at earth's perimeter defenses like mars and Jupiter stations) there with improved weaponry plus they could easily cripple the defiant even despite it being designed for the borg in specific..
-Also remember the Hanson's (Seven's parents) who set out to study the borg? Voyager also had their logs to study with 7 of 9's help..
-Also remember in voyager when we saw the queen for the first time she always used voyager as an achilles heal by saying join us or I will destroy/assimilate them, which basically meant the collective was intentionally ignoring voyager and observing even in "End Game" before future Janeway came to the rescue..
So I would conclude the Borg were not watered down but basically ignored by the Borg because,
1.They did not pose that great a threat being the only starfleet vessel in the Quadrant.
2.Then Queen intentionally was letting them live. (Probably to study humans more closely and adapt?)
Is it me, or the Voyager survive longer in a battle against a Tactical Cube than the Enterprise-D against 2 B'rel class Bird of Prey.
+Dr Galactose You mean one 120 year old BoP, right?
Stanimir Georgiev No, I mean the time that they were ambushed by two B'rel class BoP owned by Ferengi in one of TNG episode, it's a lot quicker than against that 120 years old BoP.
Dr Galactose Yah but the BoP in Generations killed the Ent - D. Your example is great, though.
+Dr Galactose Voyager is a newer ship than Enterprise D and Captain Picard never had a borg as a officer on his ship like Janeway does. lol I'm sure after Picard;s first few battles against the Borg star fleet started building better ships to handle the borg then add Seven of Nines knowledge of the borg that should at least give Janeway a fighting chance. It Isn't like Voyager was going toe to toe with the tactical cube, they were mostly trying to distract them.
+Dr Galactose Those were K'vorts.
"Increase phaser yield" Like that wasn't turned up to max already.
I assume it means turn it up at the expense of other systems, like shields. Which seems stupid to do in this situation, but w/e
Gotta save power for the aircon/holodecks/hot tubs
Could also just be that increasing yield past the recommended amount incurs risk of damage to the phasers, or even the entire ship, so it makes sense they need to be ordered so in an emergency situation.
Yield isn't the amount of power, they're literally increasing the amount of explosives (in this case, antimatter) INSIDE the warhead.
While I agree not having them stuffed full to begin with, during a fight with a tac cube is silly... antimatter is kind of important, and not all that easy to come by.
@@iami3rian394that would be great if they said torpedo yield but they said phaser yield phasers are particle weapons not antimatter
Amazing how voyager still could go to warp after so many damage from the cube! The warp core was even targeted by the cube.
"Forward shields are down". Next scene, voyager takes a hit right to the nose and it bounces off the shields. And they took a hit right to a nacelle and they said they were venting plasma...but warp drive works fine! Isn't Borg SOP to grab you with a tractor beam as well? Was the drone in charge of the tractor on break? Call me a nerd but the writers for this show were sloppy as shit. This is why voyager got a bad rap.
Yes it should have shown the leak earlier and then had a line saying Harry had locked down the leak and warp drive is still online. not have them say there is a leak and then get shot and show the leak afterwards - that is silly editing
Drone: "I get one 15 minute break for lunch, and yet you're complaining. You'll be hearing from HR."
At least it’s better than Discovery
Excellent critique. I noticed that stuff too.
Yes. Very poor. Also the way the Borg cube doesn't pursue them. How lucky.
When a shuttle can take more hits than a refit excelsior class....
I mean it is the delta flyer
Seven equipped the Flyer with Borg shields. They should flash green instead of Starfleet blue, that was an oversight.
??
The Excelsiors facing the Cube at Wolf 395 were unprepared because Picard was assimilated and the Borg knew how to bypass all their defenses.
The USS Lakota got massive upgrades before the war with the Dominion began, and that only got the ships up to scratch to fight in the conflict and increase their odds of survival (incidentally the Lakota was a bit more powerful than even the Defiant because of those upgrades)... every ship was getting flaked by orbital defences - and this was years AFTER the massacre of Wolf 359.
The Delta Flyer used Borg inspired weaponry and shields... and it only took 4 torpedoes to destroy it...
@@WatchThis-ek2og Yes exactly, Seven used her insight to equip the Flyer with Borg shield technology, also this episode is from season 6, in season 5 episode: 'Drone' , a futuristic Borg enchanted voyagers weapons and defences against the Borg the best it could, not game changing enhancements, but still enough to hang around a little longer in a fire fight with them.
@@WatchThis-ek2og The shield enhancements are are derived from sevens knowledge of Borg technology, there is no rule that shield impacts should flash green on impact, this is federation technology augmented with Borg technology, not a Borg shield generator transplanted straight from a Borg Vessel.
Seeing Janeway, Tuvok and Torres get assimilated freaked me out as a ten year old.
Voyager really needed Quantum torpedoes. That would have helped in many cases. Wonder, after they had contact with Starfleet through the Hirogen array, if it was possible to get the designs and make their own????
The ship was enhanced in S5 by 29th century Drone and the crew did get tactical updates from Starfleet via parhfinder a few episodes prior to this one.
While I have no doubt that making their own Quantum torpedoes would be doable, it might be a bit challenging in space - they would probably have to find an uninhabited star system for a week or two and set up modular production facilities to make Quantum torpedoes.
At the very least, they could have used this method to replenish their Photon torpedoes (antimatter could be either traded for or created in small quantities via the method I described above).
I don't know if Quantum torpedoes require more specialized facilities to produce though. Probably not since their design is not that different from Photon torpedoes size-wise... the main difference would be in the technology the torpedoes use.
Not sure what kind of tech is needed to make them... possibly something VOY didn't have or would need to expend a lot of time and resources to otherwise make... which they could again do with the above method, but then its possible it takes a lot of time.
I don't think the crew would be comfortable sitting on their hands for over a month. A few weeks is fine... but months? Not likely.
With enough time, the ship could probably create a massive enough facility with automation etc that runs off Solar power... but again, setting all of that up would be time consuming.
If the structure was modular enough so it can be assembled on site instantly and then just churn away.... that's one thing, but if it takes long time to make the warhead itself for the Quantum Torpedo (which is not antimatter based) then it would likely take too long and be impractical.
Sure, even 6 months is nothing in the face of 30 odd years (At this point in the series), and it could have actually presented an interesting story telling - keep the ship stationed for half a season or one quarter of a season and use shuttles and the flyer in that time frame while VOY constructed a modular facility in a star system to conduct maintenance, repairs, upgrades and manufactured both Photon and Quantum torpedoes.
Voyager looks so awesome in this battle. As it does in all of them.
Are we going to ignore the fact that the Delta Flyer. A shuttle almost the size of a starfleet runabout took 3 torpedo hits from a tactical and its shields still held till the last shot.
It would do that, because of Seven's Borg upgrades and its advanced shields.
The Power of plot devices is stronger than any shield.
The Flyer is made from borg tech
@@MDE_never_diesif the Borg themselves constructed the Delta Flyer, you'd expect a tactical cube to destroy it instantly. We are talking 28 cubic kilometres, a truly staggering volume capable of housing an entire city, compared with a couple of small rooms manned by a few crew. You could fit millions of DF inside the cube, 20 million after researching its dimensions.
Borg cubes are feared more for their size than their technology, the fleet at Wolf 359 was a tiny fraction of its volume. Seven's enhancements aren't magic, if the Borg had such magic they'd never lose that cube at earth, or have a huge (compared to Starfleet) sphere be destroyed by just four quantum torpedoes. You could fit over a hundred voyagers inside a sphere. Only way DF can generate such massive power in that tiny space is if Seven invented ZPMs.
@@beardedchimp I don't know, maybe, not really
4:03 That was nice, the drone didn't drop Janeway to the ground.
Well you gotta look after each other in the hive
If they had 45 caliber Thompson Sub-machine-guns “Tommy Guns” the Borg can’t adapt to projectile weapons. Just like captain Picard did in some movie in the hollodeck. Or however it’s spelled.
Long live gunpowder!!!
Ballistic and bladed weapons should've been added to every shipboard armory after Starfleet came into contact with the Borg. Swords and machine guns should've been everywhere. I mean, there was that one DS9 episode where Ezri was trying to catch that serial killer who was killing people with a ballistic rifle that transported rounds through bulkheads. Seems that'd be a good weapon to have when dealing with the Borg.
shit..why not get a bit more high tech...and use some rail gun pistols or rifles...the only thing stopping us from having them is battery size. star trek should have guns that shoot bullets that will shoot thru schools. or just give a droid a pair of m-60s ,,they could stand the recoil and carry a shit ton of ammo. just shred the borg.. and by the same token...they could use cannon to fire at ships.
Same principle used on Star Gate SG-1, using regular weaponry with bullets against Replicators
@@tachyontee3877 they did after Voyager but the Borg adapted (in beta Canon)
"Welcome to the pain train, zipperheads!"
The Borg could have destroyed Voyager whenever they wanted but they let them go and they let Seven go to Voyager this is clearly stated by the Queen in that episode when she makes Seven return to the collective and she says to Janeway in an episode and another where a cube reports Voyager's position to the queen and she says to let them continue. I don't think it was ever explained why she let them go.
uhm... nope. Even this here tactical cube later on STRUGGLES against the Voyager, and that thing is several times as powerfull as the one that ended 39 federation starships in mere monments. Why? Simply because of multiphasic shielding PLUS no locutus to tell them about the Intrepid classes features and all. The Voyager would 1v1 the Enterprise D from back then with quiet the ease. Remember Voyager as well as all her sisters (the two canon known are the Intrepid and the Belerophone) are build for WAR and Deep Space Long Range Exploration. So their adequatly equiped to deal with ANY THREAT including borg. If at all the Intrepid was build to be a leader ship for them sabre's and Defiants, being larger but equaly fast and armed.
Voyager cant beat them in 1v1, but can survive for an extended period of time against them.
@@christianresel8051 Plus VOY was also enhanced by One back in Season 5 (29th century Drone) and VOY got SF tactical updates via Pathfinder a few episodes before this one.
This only allowed VOY to survive in a conflict against the cube for a bit longer than it normally would have and VOY still lost the Flyer and got its front shields penetrated and still got damaged a bit - but the crew did plan this battle so the main priority would have been to survive long enough to deploy the away team and keep the Warp drive online).
I don't think the cube struggled against voyager, it was that VOY was flying around the cube quickly, and 7 was likely helping the ship in evading the tractor beam and preventing the Borg from beaming in.
I’m not saying Janeway is the best captain, but I am saying she’s the one with the biggest balls. Absolutely fearless.
Love this show! I missed it.
The Enterprise D could not escape a Borg cube. Voyager just removes itself from them.
Rea Ality well to be fair, the enterprise was the cube’s primary target, and then earth whereas voyager was a random unexpected nuisance. Tactical cubes probably don’t do nearly as much assimilating as regular cubes do because it’s not their role which might be why the cube didn’t pursue voyager, but your point is still valid. This fight was cool but very stupid because voyager should not have lasted more than 2 seconds against a tactical cube. And voyager has taken far less damage in the past and still had their warp drive disabled.
The writing for the Borg is very inconsistent.
They were venting plasma from their warp nacelle. That usually causes most federation starships to explode. Like, how many times did the Enterprise D blow up because something hit its nacelle and caused a warp core reactor overload? There was an entire God Damn episode of ST:TNG devoted that very thing. It guest starred Kelsey Grammar.
Borg being nerfed is actually one of my favourite things about Voyager.
Because in the TNG they were simply ridiculously OP..there. Simple as that
awesome ending...The Borg was devastating...my favorite species...so much more than star fleet. more, more more assimilation videos.
Starfeet tactics 101: fire your weapons almost never
Voyager is a lil beast. Rocky Marciano of the Federation.
borg were always something to be feared, a huge menace, and almost impossible to defeat... in voyager they seem almost equal to federation... and they even formed an alliance in one episode, something the borg would never do "resistance is futile" became an empty threat fast on voyager.
You realize of course the circumstances were very different on VOY.
For one thing, the Borg formed a temporary alliance with VOY because the crew developed a weapon to fight 8472 on a cellular level (something the Borg couldn't do).
Assimilating the crew would have prevented them from further innovation and improving the weapons furhter.
Also in every conflict with the Borg, the ship barely got out alive. So no, the Borg were never an empty threat on VOY.
the ship also got enhancements by 20th century drone One in season 5, tactical updates from Starfleet via pathfinder a few episodes before this one, and other modifications, plus it had 7 on board who was helpin.
all it did was allow VOY to barely escape these situations... it still got a beating, and it lost the shuttle too.
Every boarding party to a borg cude should take Ba'thlets. Worf always enjoyed it.
Also mighty nice of the queen to watch everything on a monitor so we could watch. Otherwise I'd think she could just plug into something and see it in her head. Or maybe they have Borgcube for close wireless comms. 😂😂
Venting plasma and then going to warp a few seconds later...
I love how The Borg were an extremely feared enemy capable of wiping out entire fleets with just one cube...but Voyager and her crew? Nah theyre go out brawling with them for fun 🤣
Always with the hull breaches in Voyager
Not one weld in the outer hull to be seen even after 7 years of hull breaches, lost deck plating, structural damage. And the hull electroplate coatings still like new all over. Maintenance workshop must be simply outstanding.
0:34 "Voyager has sustained damage, but none of it will be evident by the next episode."
Fixed it for them.
The Borg in Voyager are totally underated.. in my opinion also in Star Trek NG... if you compare a Borg Cube with DS 9 then you see the following. DS9 has 84 phaser, 48 torpedo launcher and 6 fusion-reactors. Place on a plattform 1,45 kilometers diameter and about 200 m high... so on DS9 there is about 0,6 cubic kilometer space to deploy equipment. A borg cube has a mass of 27 cubic kilometer... if they use the same technology a Borg Cube should have about 3600 Phaser, 2050 torpedo launchers and 256 fusion reactors. And the Borg are more advanced and don't need things like a promenade... Voyager, even a hole fleet, wouldn't stand more than 10 seconds against such a cube! A cube should be able to fire like at least 40 DS9 stations! And could you imagine the strength of a shield which is powered by 256 fusion reactors?!
Tactical Cubes are smaller than the normal cubes, but were created to be impervious to Species 8472 (Or whatever you call them)'s lasers, Now THATS powerful
I have found different information about the size of a Tactical Cube. See memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Borg_tactical_cube or www.ditl.org/ship-page.php?ClassID=brgtacticalcube&ListID=Ships&ListOption=otherak, there it is listed with about 3000x3000x3000m or 1500x1500x1500m (just found it in a discussion in some forums) => but it makes no difference... also a Tactical Cube has at least the firepower and shilds of 20 DS9 stations... and if you look at some battles (Dominion or Klingon attack on DS9) you see what damage DS9 can do and how many hits it can take! It would be just undefeatable for Voyager... even without weapons, a Cube could just pile them without any troubles.
Or just smash into them. GET OUT DA WAY!
Screw the Defiant, they should build a fleet of Intrepid class vessels to fight the borg, they can almost take on a tactical cube one on one.
The Voyager was enhanged BY the borg during the short alliance against Species 8472. The other intrepids don't have the facilities (I guess they were even able to build bigger replicators so they can replace big things like torpodoes). But many of them got adapted after Voyager came home to Earth.
+Acme. Nipp-on-AiR Using that reasoning, they would undoubtedly upgrade all Federation starships to one extent or another.
Well, in the non-kanon Star Trek Online the new ships are kind of this adaptions. I've seen one mission in a Let's play, where they were easily able to destroy a Species 8472 ship with only 5-6 ships, I don't think they would have been able to do it without the know how the Voyager brought home. In Canon we have the problem that the only other movie taking place after the return of Voyager is Nemesis and there we have a ship already 15 years old at that time ;)
I have always liked Voyager for the unique story of being stranded.
Always loved the Borg
Janeway's cunning plan, getting herself and crew assimilated. The process that usually involves the removal of a limb and eye, plus other invasive procedures. And when the episode is over, they're back to normal.
According to Panel 3 at Vegas Con 2017, The official explanation is that they were looking to make a "Kerrigan" type character for the Borg. What the fans believed to be the case all these years is that the Borg as a collective were truly just that, a collective. A singular directive for self improvement. They weren't a menace on purpose. It was simply a runaway program. The queen makes the Borg look like they're on a conquest for universal domination. They leave certain species under certain conditions and don't necessarily assimilate "every bit" of a species. If they could assimilate a portion of the Klingon Empire, they would leave some of it alone as a means of preservation and simply move on. Unlucky for Guinan's people, they were just 1 faction.
I overall liked Voyager, but one thing I hated is the borg are kind of pushovers on it, which just felt off after seeing them in TNG where they were so OP that a single standard cube threatened the whole Federation.
Though, I did like seeing them more, so it kind of balanced out I suppose.
The one thing to note is that the intrepid class star ship was developed after the events of TNG. So you could argue the federation had "adapted" to both technology and therefore while the Borg were still a threat, they were not as much of a threat.
@@NN2484it still goes against what Q originally told Picard about the Borg which was that Starfleet is at least 200 years away from being strong enough to survive the Borg.
giving how old this show is, it doesn't look as bad as i thought in fact the graphics are acceptable by todays standers
Kamel Kadri if they remastered in hd, it would look top notch.
The end results have been pretty stable for CGI since roughly 2005 or even a little before it was just the render time that has got shorter and some little tweaks that enhance realism - the Undine (species 8472) didn't age so well - but their digital background humans are pretty good I wouldn't notice them 90% of the time. But Yes Voyager is a lot better looking that your typical 1990's TV CGI that is for sure. Enterprise' model (the NX-01) is so high detail that it fools some people into thinking it's a physical model.
So I hate to say it but yes Discovery is going to realise it going to be compared to a decade old show like Enterprise and might possibly be found wanting unless the CGI is really top notch.
Kamel Kadri yes indeed. For its time it had the best special effects i thought.
After all this frigging time you'd think someone would have the brains to board Borg ships with old fashioned weapons like a sten gun or a sword...
I think Worf is the only person who has used bladed weapons against the Borg. His Mek'leth I think.
Just when you thought a regular cube was bad enough they got a frickin armored TACTICAL cube
Borg went from being an almost unstoppable juggernaut in TNG to being equal in firepower to the Kazon in Voyager! Couldn't stand how they water downed the Borg in this series!
The reason why borg couldn't take over earth was because Q prevent this. You never know the status of the borg cube or the firepower of voyager. From the enterprise to voyager technology has greatly advanced since, also they are in the alpha quadrent, it's dog eats dog also in the series where 8472 Katherine confirms the borg can't think outside the box. The borg have plenty of weaknesses. Voyager fights plenty of borg vessels they may have used some of there spoils as a tool. (:
Benjy Harris
spoils as tools? you do mean 7 of, right?
hmrhuang They also had a little help from 7 of 9...
Totally agree with hmrhuang, what's worse is how the series ended with Voyager getting advanced technology from the future.....the Borg had technology to time travel too (First Contact for example) why wouldn't the Borg just go back in time and give the technology to themselves?
***** why asume they haven't?
The Borg Queen has a really modern weave.
"Commander! Everything is shot to shit, plasma is leaking out of the wazoo!"... "Very well, go to warp"... I hate it when that happens :(
love that shot at 2:49 - 3:01
I’ve always wondered why Starfleet wouldn’t just remotely pilot a galaxy class size ship straight into the side of a Borg ship at warp 9. The always eminent warp core breach would destroy what is left from the inside out!!
Equip Galaxy classes with that one phased cloaking device from the Pegasus incident and remote fly them right into the core of Borg vessels and detonate them.
Nah, just jury rig warp cores into makeshift torpedo warheads and fire those bad bouys at teh Borg rubes. When sh*t breaches, it blows. Lot less expensive in paid man hours than the whole ship and shebang.
A moment of silence for the Delta Flyer. I know they replaced but still...I thought it was kind of sad after all that work they put into it.
They rebuilt it practically in the next episode. It’s like it didn’t even happen....that’s one of voyagers problems sadly.
Yup no consequences for anything. There’s a supercut somewhere where someone says early on that they only have about 30 torpedoes on the ship and no way to get more. Then they proceed to show every one of the hundreds of torpedoes fired in this series.
No consistency and no stakes, thats why voyager failed
@@fallofcamelot when did it failed. The series had 7 seasons and if I may say so more than TOS which definitely failed 😂🤦🏽
Who thought up this kind of mission? The sent the captain and the chef engineer and head of security. That's a critical blow to the ship's operations.
Let's hope Voyagers plot armor holds out
RIP Delta flyer 1
A voyager where a single starship can hang with a tactical cube but 40 could barely handle a single cube at wolf 359.
Yay plot armor, also 359 had Picard on the wrong side, so Borg had plot armor there. :P
Nice.
keep in mind this is after the episode where the 29th century drone massively improved the shields and weapons of voyager, a tactical cube is still a bit of a stretch but it has some reasoning why they are so strong
exactly!!!
How the hell Voyager managed to even scratch the paint of this beast of a ship I will never know.
LostMercenary99 tactical knowledge ? Seven of nine knows how to attack a Borg cube or to at least destabilise their shields which it seems to be their aim.
Old but needed: a Borg Cube is a serious threat, needing almost an entire fleet to take one out. And after the encounter with the species from fluidic space, the Tactical Cube was made to resist their laser, Now that is a powerful Cube. Voyager somehow survived against a Tactical Cube. Bull SHIT!
Nothing that a magnum .44 can't fix.
The Queen: "I won't be as accommodating next time. Reconsider" Best finale The Queen's satisfied. But pissed off
1:48
the DELTA FLYER
took 3 hits before it took
damage
I think the borg would be MORE scary if THEY MOVED A LIL FASTER!?
The soundtrack for this two parter is great is it available?
TNG - 1 borg cube destroyed a dozen Galaxy class star ships before it was destroyed.
Voyager "LOL whatever pew pew pew"
In "First Contact" a whole fleet can hardly defeat a regular borg cube with lots of casualties, but a single middle class federation ship with limited weaponry can fight against a tactical borg cube.
Hardly defeat? They destroyed one.
All Voyager did was cause the Tactical Cube's shields to blip slightly.
gail bireline is sending me tacticle youtube videos on the upcoming battle of anastasia pearls pillay
Will we ever get to see proper starship battles with these kinds of sounds again? :(
A Borg cube is like the streets of London, camera's everywhere. Ironically, given how fast the Borg adapt to laser weapons, traditional bullets would probably be more use.
Part 2 ! th-cam.com/video/FVFhg-4YPZY/w-d-xo.html
Janeway should have had Chekote transport the malfunctioning food replicator from her quarters into the Borg cube, so it could spit out burnt pot roasts and hot coffee and PBJ sandwiches at the drones, slowing them down.
Is it me or does captain janeway sound like she is having pleasure from the noises she makes whenever she is being attack?
Whoa...get your mind out of the gutter.
Jake Hayes I know why you mean dude. And like I know you originally wrote this comment three years ago mate. But I have literally always thought the same thing.
Because you're projecting. It's ok. we all do it.
@@Krystalmyth That's not projecting. You're projecting though.
No....get that mind out of the gutter. 😂 I loved and hated this scene at the same time. I didn’t like the fact that they got assimilated. But loved the fighting sequences and Voyager’s jump to warp.
Ton of hits from a borg cube with shields down, venting plasma, hull breach... Still able to warp out just fine.
...any other random damage "warp drive is offline!"
I'm curious how, no matter what show it's on, every time there's damage to a ship, there's some dirt among the wreckage.
Where's the dirt come from? Aren't spaceships usually as sterile as possible?
Just asking.
"Increase phaser yield". Like you're not going to have them cranked up to max already when assaulting a Tac Cube.
" Venting Plasma" haha
I have to say that the Defiant and Voyager gave borg ships are hard fight each and every fight..
Borg Cude drained Galaxy class shields with 2 torpedos yet a tactical cube can't destroy Voyager in 4 minutes.
All they had to do is to come up with some reason why the cube had been pre-damaged, and all this would make some sense.
I get that its main character/ship logic, but still how can an intrepid class even survive longer than a few seconds against a tactical cube?
plot armor at 100%
True but look how long stargate ships last, they can hang in against wraith hive ships ten times their size for quite a while. And look at Bridge Commander and ST:O, how long your shields can last, far longer than on the tv series.
Yeah, but they have superior tech to the wraith. better shields to none for the wraith. Here, the intrepid is so outmatched its ridiculous. inferior tech in every way.
It had upgraded systems and armor from previous encounters with Borg and species 8472. It could last a lot longer than any Federation ship
That's true. They upgraded after they got 7 of 9.
UGH...ya gotta love a single Intrepid Class Starship standing TOE TO TOE against a heavily armored Borg Cube. HORRIBLE.
+pinoi78 Brave or stupid, one of the two.
Yeah, I think this episode holds the record for the most plot holes and star trek universe inconsistencies. One of them being that the have a nacelle plasma leak wich magicaly is fixed (no plasma smoke trail in later CGI) and the also shouldn't be able to create a enough of a stable warp field after that to jump out.
+pinoi78 Technology changes and after star fleets first few encounters with the borg they started building better ships not mention Janeway had a former borg on her ship that could improve her ship's capabilities to give her a fighting chance. Just like an Earth based military, they train and develop new technologies for their enemies everyday. So why wouldn't star fleet do the samething ?
+MrGrownman455 the borg adapts in seconds to things it would take the federation weeks, months or use to create.
This is actually one of my favorite Voyager episodes because of the concept of Unimatrix Zero, but the fight with the tactical cube is not the episode's strong point since it breaks the suspension of disbelief.
+Ryeguy123a That is called "reverse engenieering" Take and advanced technological unkown object - disarm it and see how it's work - build a similar objet adapted to yours specifications -Gain a new technology. Janeway captures 7 of 9 and her borg technology, also the federation battles the borg at Wolf 359 with Picard and win several years before. I think the federation IS very well prepared for a Borg Tactical cube.
Hey Harry, are those inertial dampeners offline yet?
A stomach ache from something she ate!
The queen is always so smug for someone who always eventually gets a beat down. :) Also, for a supposed far superior race, the Borg are sure having trouble destroying anything.
Plot Armor, vs everyone else she always wins.
Is that Maria Bellow as the Borg queen?
If the Delta flyer was destroyed then how did they use it again in the rest of the season and the finale season???
Borg cube arriving.
Captain: Status Mister Helm.
Sir, Borg cube arriving.
Captain: Ok, Mister Helm.
First Officer: Should we do something?
Captain: Not yet, Number One.
*BOOM*
Captain: Status report.
Tactics: Shields down to 20%.
Captain: That's sad. Make useless standard maneuvers.
*BOOM*
Captain: Status report.
Tactics: Shields down to 5%.
Captain: Fire ONE Torpedo.
Tactics: No effect.
Captain: That's sad. Make useless standard maneuvers.
*BOOM*
Captain: Status report.
Tactics: Shields down to 1%.
Captain: We need a wonder.
*Storytellers invent some strange wonders to fix storyline*
The Delta Flyer :'(
How many years between Wolf 359 and Voyager, how much knowledge about them gained and technology made?
How does Voyager get repaired with the nearest starbase 70,000 light years away?