Check out these videos from Buckin billy ray chainsaw kickback , short bars beware, "Stand up and Buck th-cam.com/video/7eFsJLNUlmE/w-d-xo.html How To cut small firewood with a chainsaw, standing up th-cam.com/video/f4qxRc8pRX4/w-d-xo.html #standupandbuck
Buckin' is awesome and is super knowledgeable. I used to watch all of his stuff a couple years ago. Now I mostly pick out videos that seem more interesting to watch. Mostly due to the length of them.
Good advice. I've definitely wore myself out cutting with a 16in bar on the ground b4. And I've also cut lifted logs. Have to watch for them fall so it's not on you. I haven't always had the safety gear on when I was younger but since getting older I got and use 3m work tunes and have safety glasses either using a saw or mowing the yard.
You found Buck’N…or maybe you already knew of him but that’s a great shout out!!! BE KIND!!! Get the GULLET!! You can watch the vids on 1.5 speed - plow thru more content that way. Long bars are indeed awesome--chains last longer too (keep’m outa the dirt😂) Great vid Brock! God bless brother🙏🏼😇👍🏻
Interesting perspective here, Brock. I've always believed the less moving chain the better, and the more you can keep the dogs engaged with the wood, the less chance of an issue. But I do see the point of being back further from the chain/tip of the bar. Now you've got me wondering.
@@RockhillfarmYT We enjoy his channel too. But I'm not sure if I'd say his opinions are always equal to what chainsaw manufacturers and safety experts would always agree with.
I have no opinion on BBR, good or bad. I do know a little about kickback, and physics. Kickback occurs at speeds that don't leave time for reflexes to travel from sensors like eyes and nerve endings to the brain, let alone to then reverse and signal the hands to move to divert the saws path. The laws of physics are immutable. More bar length equals greater leverage, and thus more speed and force exerted by the kickback. Before people lose their collective minds, and proceed down the path of what an ignorant newbie i must be, I've been heating with wood as my primary energy source since before most of you were born. I still have wood providing upwards of 97% of my heating BTU's, and was in the timber harvesting business for a decade. I've been there and done that, and don't frankly care what you've chosen for your particular bar length, but am hoping a few novice wood hounds will have a slightly different perspective than that of the BBR zfan club president's opinion. Let the screaming begin. BTW, I'm laughing not angry.
There are a lot of factors and I’m not going to say I have all the answers but a little short bar doesn’t weigh anything and its tip is really close to you The setup I’m running is heavy and it’s a lot harder for the Kikback to move it The tip of the bar is also much further away from me so it Hass to move 4 feet before it’s going to hit me
At 63 years old the most weight I can handle is a 20 inch bar on a 50 cc echo. As a novice homeowner; if I can’t cut it with a 20 inch bar I have no business cutting it. I do know my limitations. Thank you so much for showing the kickback. My question is if I accidentally hit pure dirt will the kickback be as hard? I worry about kick back a lot as I am left-handed. Most chainsaws are made for right handers. The chain brake is in line with your hand when you’re holding the saw properly with your right hand. Not so much when you hold it with your left. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
I’ve got a 16” STIHL MS 180 16 in. 31.8 cc Gas Chainsaw. Stihl recommends the longest bar I can go to is 18”. Is there much difference between 16” and 18” bars? This is my first chainsaw. Do I get another chainsaw to go substantially longer?
How powerful a powerhead is needed for a longer bar & chain? I have a Stihl MS 311 which came with a 20 inch bar. I think it could run a longer chain if cutting smaller pieces of wood.
Up until this year I only had a 16" saw, cut a lot of wood with them, I don't cut hundreds of cords each season, only about 6 cords for my own use. The saw I use is a 40cc Husky, but this year I bought a 72cc with the 28" bar, but only for the larger trees I am running into, it is a bit heavy to use for the smaller logs all day. Everything we do can be dangerous, but if you use your brain ,everything works just fine. I don't go out there dressed in a suit of armor every day. I am 76 years old now and still have not had a problem with the saw dangers, Now my hammer, yes I have clobbered my finger a few times. LOL
Oh and Wranglerstar has video about how longer bars save your back and how to maneuver the saw (he’s a former wildlands fire fighter) they were great tips he also has a vid on tensions types and how to keep bar outa trouble. Also where are your Dawgs? Longer bars work great with the bigs dawgs also.
Good words! The other thing to think about is standing dead trees, the vibrations of you cutting might make dead limbs far while you’re cutting. Nobody wants to be impaled by a branch!
I appreciate your video, Brock. And I've watched a lot of Buckin's videos, too. But I don't always agree with him. Bucking with a longer bar puts the bar closer to your feet, toes, and legs. This is where most of the chainsaw injuries happen. I've done it both ways. And I prefer bucking with a shorter bar. I've nicked my boots and the bottom of my chaps. For me, it's more safe bucking the conventional way.
The short bar can kick back directly to your shoulder or face since you have your upper body over the saw. Billy Ray is probably right about bucking standing up but please people, you need leg protection.
Not sure I agree, the more chain the more danger. Look how close your leg is to that chain with a long bar, with a short bar the whole thing is buried in the log. Maybe if you are real.old or have a bad back then I can see your point. I usually kneel on the ground to buck if I get tired.
When running a large saw, I prefer to allow the dawgs to do their work, so I don't have to pull against the pull from the saw. If the log is on the ground, I just kneel down and keep the bar horizontal all the way through the cut. There is no chance that chain is getting near my feet or legs. The logs I cut are 1.5-3 feet in diameter.
that is the dumbest shit i have ever read in a youtube comments section... like ever... its not your legs or feet that you need to worry about... its your face... tell me youre a fuckin moron without telling me youre a moron
Also A kickback from a short bar will travel towards you much faster than the kickback of a long bar. The Physics of it works like this. Your hand is the fulcrum. The bar is the lever. The longer the lever the slower the speed. If you have two goats chained to a post which is the fulcrum one goat is on a chain twice as long and they both run a circle around the post the goat on the short chain will only travel half the distance and complete the race in half the time. A chainsaw with a bar twice as long will travel towards you at half the speed of the saw with the short bar. Yes the long bar has greater leverage causing a geared down slower kick off at the kick off point but after the bar has left the kick off point it will travel towards you slower with less momentum. Meaning there is less momentum and more time for the operator to act. The short bar is geared up at the kick off point which will greatly accelerate the bar which will then travel towards the operator at high speed. I hope this makes sense.
It doesn't make sense, in that the speed of the kickback is influenced by the chains velocity as it moves around the bar tip, not the leverage. You can think about it as putting a heater pipe on a wrench. That pipe doesn't determine the speed the wrench moves, that's only influenced by the hand on the pipe. The kickback force is that hand, and that only changes the speed if you slow the chain's speed. Use whatever bar length suits you, but look into your physics and you'll see the relative advantages of shorter bars. BTW, I don't know anything about goats, but do know a little about logging and thus about kickback. I'm in my sixties and still getting my wood out from stump to stove every year. Have a good one.
I’m not trying to argue. Just a conversation looking for the right answer It definitely seems to me that it takes a lot more force to move a longer heavier bar. The same amount of force on a longer bar would move that bar half as far
@@danielmoulton4117 I hope I understood your comment correctly. My argument is that the analogous heaterpipe does influence the speed of the Wrench. you have to remember that not every part of the wrench travels at the same speed. imagine the wrench was one mile long now you give the pipe a complete 360 degree turn in one second. the far end of the one mile pipe will travel in a one mile radius in one second which is a distance of 6.3 miles So the far en of the wrench is travelling at 6.3 miles per second. The part of the wrench that is one foot away from the pipe will travel 6.3 feet and therefore has a speed of 6.3 feet per second or 0.0012 miles per second. Even dough the entire wrench completes the turn in one second every part of the wrench has to travel at a different speed. If you had a one mile long bar on a chainsaw and you where to experience a kickback with the bar kicking of at 90 Degrees from your face the tip of the bar where the kickback occures would have to travel a distance of proximately 1.5 miles or 7920 feet. The chain speed of a powerful chainsaw is about 100 feet per second. It would therefore take the tip of the bar where the kickback occurs 79 seconds to travel the distance of 1.5 miles to complete the 90 degrees where the bar would eventually meet the face of the operator. That would give the operator enough time to quickly eat a banana and then move his face out of the way. I understand that a one mile long bar is ridiculous, but thinking in extremes helps one more easily understand the less extreme like that a 28 inch bar will take twice as long to reach the operators face than a 14 inch bar. No disrespect to you sir. You certainly have a lot more experience operating a chainsaw than I do. And I am in no way questioning your abilities. I am just pointing out something that does not always seem that obvious in everyday live.
@@DaskaiserreichNet78 i get that the body of the saw will travel more slowly than the tip of the bar, and I honestly didn't have the time or inclination to do all the arithmetic, but my hope is only that novice cutters get a different perspective than the popular one. The bar tip or center depending on the length, is what generally contacts flesh in these accidents and whether it's moving 6.3 ft. per sec, or even half that, there simply isn't time for nerve impulse to travel from eye to brain, to hand to deflect that force. No disrespect to anyone, you included, and I'm not a neurologist and don't know the specifics of neurosensory impulses, but that's been my experience. Great conversation to be having. I hope people can advance their cutting knowledge through this.
@@danielmoulton4117 I do agree in that nerve reflexes aren't that fast and Kickback should be avoided at al costs. But when the unfortunate happens a bar colliding at a slower speed should lessen the damage. combining this with all the other safety advantages mentioned by danielmoulton4117 and Buckin' Billy Ray Smith. I do think that they are right that from a safety point of view a longer bar would be advantageous. I do think if anything it would make more sense if short bars were only used for special purposes by experienced lumberjacks who really know what they are doing. Good to have this conversation even if there are differences of opinion. Safety is important and knowledge is power
Check out these videos from Buckin billy ray
chainsaw kickback , short bars beware, "Stand up and Buck
th-cam.com/video/7eFsJLNUlmE/w-d-xo.html
How To cut small firewood with a chainsaw, standing up
th-cam.com/video/f4qxRc8pRX4/w-d-xo.html
#standupandbuck
Thanks for being safe, and showing other people how to. Sometimes people don't think until they see someone else doing it..
Buckin' is awesome and is super knowledgeable. I used to watch all of his stuff a couple years ago. Now I mostly pick out videos that seem more interesting to watch. Mostly due to the length of them.
Good advice. I've definitely wore myself out cutting with a 16in bar on the ground b4. And I've also cut lifted logs. Have to watch for them fall so it's not on you. I haven't always had the safety gear on when I was younger but since getting older I got and use 3m work tunes and have safety glasses either using a saw or mowing the yard.
You found Buck’N…or maybe you already knew of him but that’s a great shout out!!! BE KIND!!! Get the GULLET!! You can watch the vids on 1.5 speed - plow thru more content that way. Long bars are indeed awesome--chains last longer too (keep’m outa the dirt😂) Great vid Brock! God bless brother🙏🏼😇👍🏻
Yup! I watch every video on 1.3-1.5x unless it's music or a fast talker. Helps save time for other things.
Totally agree with you on all points, especially about thinking thru what you are going to do and what can happen! 👍👍
Great learning video. Thank you!
Thanks for sharing your safety tips 👍
Interesting perspective here, Brock. I've always believed the less moving chain the better, and the more you can keep the dogs engaged with the wood, the less chance of an issue. But I do see the point of being back further from the chain/tip of the bar. Now you've got me wondering.
Well, just watch bucking Billy Ray talk about it for 4-5 hours and you will be convinced
love that guy
@@RockhillfarmYT We enjoy his channel too. But I'm not sure if I'd say his opinions are always equal to what chainsaw manufacturers and safety experts would always agree with.
I have no opinion on BBR, good or bad. I do know a little about kickback, and physics. Kickback occurs at speeds that don't leave time for reflexes to travel from sensors like eyes and nerve endings to the brain, let alone to then reverse and signal the hands to move to divert the saws path. The laws of physics are immutable. More bar length equals greater leverage, and thus more speed and force exerted by the kickback. Before people lose their collective minds, and proceed down the path of what an ignorant newbie i must be, I've been heating with wood as my primary energy source since before most of you were born. I still have wood providing upwards of 97% of my heating BTU's, and was in the timber harvesting business for a decade. I've been there and done that, and don't frankly care what you've chosen for your particular bar length, but am hoping a few novice wood hounds will have a slightly different perspective than that of the BBR zfan club president's opinion. Let the screaming begin. BTW, I'm laughing not angry.
There are a lot of factors and I’m not going to say I have all the answers but a little short bar doesn’t weigh anything and its tip is really close to you
The setup I’m running is heavy and it’s a lot harder for the Kikback to move it
The tip of the bar is also much further away from me so it Hass to move 4 feet before it’s going to hit me
❤ the longer the better
At 63 years old the most weight I can handle is a 20 inch bar on a 50 cc echo. As a novice homeowner; if I can’t cut it with a 20 inch bar I have no business cutting it. I do know my limitations. Thank you so much for showing the kickback. My question is if I accidentally hit pure dirt will the kickback be as hard? I worry about kick back a lot as I am left-handed. Most chainsaws are made for right handers. The chain brake is in line with your hand when you’re holding the saw properly with your right hand. Not so much when you hold it with your left. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you for your time.
Just watched BRS's trailer video and I gotta say... Canadians are MINT !!
what are you thinking about 10 inches bar for amateurs, is it safe? please help.
He had a video quite a while back about a bad accident he had. It is amazing he survived.
Wanting a saw to pull a bigger bar. How is the 391? Any thoughts?
I’ve got a 16” STIHL MS 180 16 in. 31.8 cc Gas Chainsaw. Stihl recommends the longest bar I can go to is 18”. Is there much difference between 16” and 18” bars? This is my first chainsaw. Do I get another chainsaw to go substantially longer?
How powerful a powerhead is needed for a longer bar & chain? I have a Stihl MS 311 which came with a 20 inch bar. I think it could run a longer chain if cutting smaller pieces of wood.
My 391 runs a 25 inch bar. It is 64 cc.
I’m not an expert on it to know exactly what the 311 can handle
Another honest video Brock
Up until this year I only had a 16" saw, cut a lot of wood with them, I don't cut hundreds of cords each season, only about 6 cords for my own use. The saw I use is a 40cc Husky, but this year I bought a 72cc with the 28" bar, but only for the larger trees I am running into, it is a bit heavy to use for the smaller logs all day. Everything we do can be dangerous, but if you use your brain ,everything works just fine. I don't go out there dressed in a suit of armor every day. I am 76 years old now and still have not had a problem with the saw dangers, Now my hammer, yes I have clobbered my finger a few times. LOL
I’ve got a thumbnail about halfway grown back right now
Oh and Wranglerstar has video about how longer bars save your back and how to maneuver the saw (he’s a former wildlands fire fighter) they were great tips he also has a vid on tensions types and how to keep bar outa trouble.
Also where are your Dawgs? Longer bars work great with the bigs dawgs also.
Everyone running long bar till they find out why they smoke the crank bearings and clutches
Good words! The other thing to think about is standing dead trees, the vibrations of you cutting might make dead limbs far while you’re cutting. Nobody wants to be impaled by a branch!
Mesin yang sangat bagus 👍
I appreciate your video, Brock. And I've watched a lot of Buckin's videos, too. But I don't always agree with him. Bucking with a longer bar puts the bar closer to your feet, toes, and legs. This is where most of the chainsaw injuries happen. I've done it both ways. And I prefer bucking with a shorter bar. I've nicked my boots and the bottom of my chaps. For me, it's more safe bucking the conventional way.
Yeah, we don’t all have to agree but that’s my thoughts on it today and I think it’s a good conversation to have
@@RockhillfarmYT Absolutely! Buck that way for a bit and see what you prefer. Just make sure to be safe.
Husqvarna has a new helmet with a very rugged face protection.
The short bar can kick back directly to your shoulder or face since you have your upper body over the saw. Billy Ray is probably right about bucking standing up but please people, you need leg protection.
Not sure I agree, the more chain the more danger. Look how close your leg is to that chain with a long bar, with a short bar the whole thing is buried in the log. Maybe if you are real.old or have a bad back then I can see your point. I usually kneel on the ground to buck if I get tired.
When running a large saw, I prefer to allow the dawgs to do their work, so I don't have to pull against the pull from the saw. If the log is on the ground, I just kneel down and keep the bar horizontal all the way through the cut. There is no chance that chain is getting near my feet or legs. The logs I cut are 1.5-3 feet in diameter.
that is the dumbest shit i have ever read in a youtube comments section... like ever... its not your legs or feet that you need to worry about... its your face... tell me youre a fuckin moron without telling me youre a moron
Also the most important thing is common sense, and knowing what to do with your saw safely. Not rushing into your project.
Also A kickback from a short bar will travel towards you much faster than the kickback of a long bar.
The Physics of it works like this. Your hand is the fulcrum. The bar is the lever. The longer the lever the slower the speed.
If you have two goats chained to a post which is the fulcrum one goat is on a chain twice as long and they both run a circle around the post the goat on the short chain will only travel half the distance and complete the race in half the time.
A chainsaw with a bar twice as long will travel towards you at half the speed of the saw with the short bar.
Yes the long bar has greater leverage causing a geared down slower kick off at the kick off point but after the bar has left the kick off point it will travel towards you slower with less momentum. Meaning there is less momentum and more time for the operator to act.
The short bar is geared up at the kick off point which will greatly accelerate the bar which will then travel towards the operator at high speed.
I hope this makes sense.
It doesn't make sense, in that the speed of the kickback is influenced by the chains velocity as it moves around the bar tip, not the leverage. You can think about it as putting a heater pipe on a wrench. That pipe doesn't determine the speed the wrench moves, that's only influenced by the hand on the pipe. The kickback force is that hand, and that only changes the speed if you slow the chain's speed. Use whatever bar length suits you, but look into your physics and you'll see the relative advantages of shorter bars. BTW, I don't know anything about goats, but do know a little about logging and thus about kickback. I'm in my sixties and still getting my wood out from stump to stove every year. Have a good one.
I’m not trying to argue. Just a conversation looking for the right answer
It definitely seems to me that it takes a lot more force to move a longer heavier bar. The same amount of force on a longer bar would move that bar half as far
@@danielmoulton4117 I hope I understood your comment correctly.
My argument is that the analogous heaterpipe does influence the speed of the Wrench. you have to remember that not every part of the wrench travels at the same speed. imagine the wrench was one mile long now you give the pipe a complete 360 degree turn in one second. the far end of the one mile pipe will travel in a one mile radius in one second which is a distance of 6.3 miles
So the far en of the wrench is travelling at 6.3 miles per second.
The part of the wrench that is one foot away from the pipe will travel 6.3 feet and therefore has a speed of 6.3 feet per second or 0.0012 miles per second.
Even dough the entire wrench completes the turn in one second every part of the wrench has to travel at a different speed.
If you had a one mile long bar on a chainsaw and you where to experience a kickback with the bar kicking of at 90 Degrees from your face the tip of the bar where the kickback occures would have to travel a distance of proximately 1.5 miles or 7920 feet. The chain speed of a powerful chainsaw is about 100 feet per second. It would therefore take the tip of the bar where the kickback occurs 79 seconds to travel the distance of 1.5 miles to complete the 90 degrees where the bar would eventually meet the face of the operator. That would give the operator enough time to quickly eat a banana and then move his face out of the way.
I understand that a one mile long bar is ridiculous, but thinking in extremes helps one more easily understand the less extreme like that a 28 inch bar will take twice as long to reach the operators face than a 14 inch bar.
No disrespect to you sir. You certainly have a lot more experience operating a chainsaw than I do. And I am in no way questioning your abilities. I am just pointing out something that does not always seem that obvious in everyday live.
@@DaskaiserreichNet78 i get that the body of the saw will travel more slowly than the tip of the bar, and I honestly didn't have the time or inclination to do all the arithmetic, but my hope is only that novice cutters get a different perspective than the popular one. The bar tip or center depending on the length, is what generally contacts flesh in these accidents and whether it's moving 6.3 ft. per sec, or even half that, there simply isn't time for nerve impulse to travel from eye to brain, to hand to deflect that force. No disrespect to anyone, you included, and I'm not a neurologist and don't know the specifics of neurosensory impulses, but that's been my experience. Great conversation to be having. I hope people can advance their cutting knowledge through this.
@@danielmoulton4117 I do agree in that nerve reflexes aren't that fast and Kickback should be avoided at al costs. But when the unfortunate happens a bar colliding at a slower speed should lessen the damage. combining this with all the other safety advantages mentioned by danielmoulton4117 and Buckin' Billy Ray Smith.
I do think that they are right that from a safety point of view a longer bar would be advantageous.
I do think if anything it would make more sense if short bars were only used for special purposes by experienced lumberjacks who really know what they are doing.
Good to have this conversation even if there are differences of opinion.
Safety is important and knowledge is power
CUT WOOD 20 YEARS NEVER USED ANYTHING 1 TOOTH IN HEAD LOL YA BACK IS NO GOOD
Hmmm...chainsaw safety video and you are not wearing head, ear, eye protection.