Eagle F1 Supersport. I tried PS4 and PS4S, but they both got hot and greasy on track. The F1SS was reasonable on the road in the wet and held up really well on track, so for my style and mix of driving I really enjoy them. The steering feel is better than with Michelin too, but on road grip and comfort is better on the Michelin tyres.
Two days ago, I valeted a sensational little '03-reg MX-5 1.8 S-VT Sport in Grace Green metallic (BRG). It had just 8,000 miles on it and was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sports all round. But they were manufactured in the 13th week of 2010. Due to his economical driving technique and putting Carpro wheel covers over his 16 inch directional-pattern 5-spoke Mazda alloys when not in use, the tyres were still in good condition, however I did advise the customer to invest in a new set of the same ones, or Goodyear Eagle F1's. Bridgestone Potenzas are ok, but they can crack and perish at a young age in my experience.
I'm going through the exact same thoughts as you John. I'm running a set of 4 PS4S and I want to change into Cup2's. Because of all the extra grip- those lateral forces are passed onto the steering and suspension joints and bushes. They will wear quicker. You'll end up swapping out OEM rubber bushes to Nylon bushings soon enough. You can buy 'OEM+' nylon bushes that still give you same road noise and characteristics of OEM rather then aggressive track oriented bushes. They are an aray of soft to hardness bushes.
I’ve just swapped from Cup2 (which I enjoyed) to Yokohama A052s. Trying them on track for the first time next weekend. PS4S is an excellent road tyre but I wouldn’t use on track. You need to add more camber to stop the roll over on the shoulders… are you coming to Flat 6 show at Goodwood next Saturday? If so, see you there! I’ll be on track in my 996 C4S
Yer I think the PS4s might be dangerous on track for the exact reason you just said m8. That might be why the sidewalks failed on mine. I'm at fl6 I'll come say hi phil
I can out of personal experience say you are absolutely correct about the roll over. My sidewalls were more worn out then the top of the tyre itself (rs3 so heavy car tho). Same goes for the cup2, you need more camber and also should not start with too low of a tyre pressure 2.1 bar is my go to with cup 2's and you need a good alignment setup with enough camber.
I switched from ps4s, amazing tyre, better grip in dry, almost doesnt need any heat, even on my 2nd season grip is still there which i had an issue with ps4s. But I wouldnt reccomend it for track use - too soft. In wet its another level than ps4s, much much better, not comparable.
Thanks for the great comparison and analysis of the tires. My Nissan 370z sport coupe came with Bridgestone Potenza S007 tires that lasted about 15K miles. They had excellent grip and steering responsiveness, with nice stiff sidewalls. My next set was the Michelin PS4S that was a great tire, except for the sidewalls that were too flexible that led to loss of steering response and a vagueness in the steering feel. Those tires lasted 35K miles with some tread left, without rotation. Their wet performance was excellent. I currently have the Michelin PS Cup 2(240) and really love them. The steering responsiveness and precision is significantly better than the PS4S with their stiffer sidewalls. The noise is only slightly louder than the PS4S and the wet performance, while not as good as the PS4S, is acceptable if one drives accordingly. I don't mind paying the extra money, as long as I can get at least 21K or 22K miles out of them, which I will according to my wear projections. Another great thing about these Michelin tires is their much lighter weight than most other tires, -6 lbs, approximately, in comparison to the Bridgestones. I attribute this, in part, to the use of Aramid(Kevlar) fiber in the belts in place of steel, the Aramid being stiffer and lighter than steel. The outer periphery of the tire is exactly where you want to take off rotational mass.
cup2 is really for track mate, its such a soft compound using it on the road is just gonna wear it. you actually cant drive a car hard enough on the road to utilise cup2 tyres they need heat to yield their grip. road is full of debry and junk and poor surface condition. Use cup2 because you want to go faster on a circuit on good tarmac. otherwise I would go for fast UHP road tyre. I would avoid the PS4s because of the reason you mention, compound is very good but the sidewall is too thin. I would look towards goodyear super sport perhaps.
@@ForensicDetailing Thanks for the recommendation, much appreciated. Are you using the original Cup 2s that are a 180 tread wear tire? Those are definitely a highly track oriented tire. Michelin came out with a reformulated compound Cup 2 that is better balanced than the 180 tire and that is designated the Cup 2(240l, which is what I have. You make a good point about what one is giving up in that tire in using it on the street and I'll just have to see what kind of tread life it delivers. My initial projections are for about 22k miles for the rear tires, they're wearing faster than the fronts and so I will up the tire width by 10mm on the next set.
My favourite tyres are a set of four black rubber Goodyear Eagle F1's I had on a pearlescent Diablo Red '02-plate 106 GTi I owned about 9 years ago. I love them because they made the alloys look fantastic and transformed the car's already good handling. They never cracked, perished or went brown. The steering had more weight to it and the car had considerably more grip than before. Of course I would still own the car today if it wasn't hit from behind by a short fat blonde 20-something loser in a Fiat 500 on her phone.
These are some of the best tires you can get, but these need to be warmed up. They’re for the track, not street (you still can drive on street but I wouldn’t). Test reviews show on tirerack how much Michelin blows away the competition. I’d get 4S tires for the street.
@@TimChump As someone who has owned and tracked his 981 GT4 since 2016, I will absolutely disagree. Unless you need the rear seats, the BMW does nothing better if you want a good street car that is brilliant on track. Brakes last forever, I have only done one clutch in over 50k km of which at least 30k is track.
Recently replaced all four on my 911, I asked the opinion of several local tyre fitters, none of them had anything good to say about Michelins. The recommendations were Bridgestone, Goodyear or Pirelli, which were considerably cheaper and lasted longer.
I hate Cup2 so much. Both Cup2 and Dunlop Sport Maxx Race2 are OEM on my GT4 but cup2 is just a lot less grippy and more sensitive to temperature. Too easy to get overheat and cup2 starts to lose grip. On the other hand Dunlop is more consistent, there is barely any performance degradation after 20 minutes of track. Cup2 takes 1 lap to get heat and falls off after 5 laps (~10 min). I was able to get 5 sec quicker on Dunlop than Cup2. Never going to get Michelin again. There are other great tire options, for example Goodyear F1 supercar 3 (OOS on tirerack due to high demand) and Yokohoma AD09.
I cant find anything in the size i need beyond michelain. Im really open to trying stuff. I find the grip from the cup2 is incredible for hot lapping but yes needs warning up, and yes will start melting if you abuse it. Was wondering if the cup2 R would be any better but suspect if its faster it will just be softer.
You are trying to do too much and searching for the holy grail… good on road/mileage/wet performance and out standing dry track performance… You are now at the point of needing a second set of wheels, get some dedicated dry track tyres for dry track days and some good road/wet tyres for the rest of the time.
Im aware theres compramises I think I said that in the video, theres never gonna be a perfect choice for all scenarios. but for me Im not gonna go into the realms of swapping alloys around for track days, the car throws a wobbly without the TPMS but its just such a ball ache swapping alloys over and having spare sets lying around. so I think the cup2 might be the best option for me although I just like trying different tyres.
I will never buy Michelin ever again, they are overpriced rubbish. I’ve used Avons for years on my focus RS and m140i, last longer stick like glue in the rain and almost half the price.
@@Mac_F87 I’m just stating my opinion, I’ve used Michelins in the past and they were terrible. Everyone buys in to how great they are because manufacturers put them on new cars and TH-camrs seem to love them but to me they are crap and I’ll never buy them again. If you are happy buying overpriced rubber then go ahead I’ve found a make I like with better performance at half the price.
So you tell me a tyre I can run on my m4 comp thats half the price and faster (i tried every cheaper performance option over the years with the M135/m140 and m240. Ill put them on and go for a hot track day at good wood again and compare times. You can come along and sit in the car with me so you know Im going as fast as I can. If I can go faster on your tyre recomendation that has to be half the price I will give you 1000 pounds. If I cant you give me 1000 pounds?
I have been in the tyre trade for over 40 years. The rubber compounds Michelin use are far superior to Avon. Avon are good but don’t stand up to the Michelins. I was an independent tyre dealer.
My brotha, an ar1 is treadwear 100, cup 2 is treadwear 240 so no an ar1 is not gonna last longer but that being said because you were so focused on the sidewalls you should try the ar1 because it's got a lot of a stiffer sidewall than a cup2, a cup2 and trofeo r are best for lighter cars, not heavier than 1400kg.
size is the biggest problem. I think cup2 and trofeo are only real precise correct options. but the cost of them is ludicrous. If I go hard at it I can destroy a set of cup2 fronts on one track day. running all these high performance cars is a joke. Im down grading to something less quick :) you miss out on all the fun taking a car like this to a track day I think.
![Michelin Pilot Sport 4S VS Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 - Compared on Track [*]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ls8YawSKIrQ/mqdefault.jpg)
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![[MPD직캠] 베이비몬스터 직캠 8K 'FOREVER' (BABYMONSTER FanCam) | @MCOUNTDOWN_2024.7.11](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ylRx8QOuGXo/mqdefault.jpg)
Whats your favorite performance tyre and why?
Eagle F1 Supersport. I tried PS4 and PS4S, but they both got hot and greasy on track. The F1SS was reasonable on the road in the wet and held up really well on track, so for my style and mix of driving I really enjoy them. The steering feel is better than with Michelin too, but on road grip and comfort is better on the Michelin tyres.
Dunlop Racemaxx 2s
Ps4s
@@howarddavies136 Exactly what I think, too. Steering feel is really the biggest factor for me!
Dunlop Direzza is the ultimate trackday tyre for me, but forget about it on road!
Really interesting review John so thank you
Great review John 👍🏻I'm interested in running these on my 996 after Anglesey destroys my potenzas 😂
Two days ago, I valeted a sensational little '03-reg MX-5 1.8 S-VT Sport in Grace Green metallic (BRG). It had just 8,000 miles on it and was fitted with Michelin Pilot Sports all round. But they were manufactured in the 13th week of 2010. Due to his economical driving technique and putting Carpro wheel covers over his 16 inch directional-pattern 5-spoke Mazda alloys when not in use, the tyres were still in good condition, however I did advise the customer to invest in a new set of the same ones, or Goodyear Eagle F1's. Bridgestone Potenzas are ok, but they can crack and perish at a young age in my experience.
I'm going through the exact same thoughts as you John. I'm running a set of 4 PS4S and I want to change into Cup2's. Because of all the extra grip- those lateral forces are passed onto the steering and suspension joints and bushes. They will wear quicker. You'll end up swapping out OEM rubber bushes to Nylon bushings soon enough. You can buy 'OEM+' nylon bushes that still give you same road noise and characteristics of OEM rather then aggressive track oriented bushes. They are an aray of soft to hardness bushes.
Cup 2’s are different league until you actually track them you don’t realise how good, the braking is also hugely improved but you do pay a premium
I’m running Goodyear Eagle F1s on my Tesla MY - 20” stock. Even though they are all season, they stick hard because they are pretty wide.
Sorry mate. Slightly off topic but I can't seem to find a video. Do you have a video on the best polish that can be applied by hand in your reviews?
A mega test was done on this by pro detailers. I think nanolex polish and protect won. I kind of like Poorboyz black hole though :)
I’ve just swapped from
Cup2 (which I enjoyed) to Yokohama A052s. Trying them on track for the first time next weekend. PS4S is an excellent road tyre but I wouldn’t use on track. You need to add more camber to stop the roll over on the shoulders… are you coming to Flat 6 show at Goodwood next Saturday? If so, see you there! I’ll be on track in my 996 C4S
Yer I think the PS4s might be dangerous on track for the exact reason you just said m8. That might be why the sidewalks failed on mine. I'm at fl6 I'll come say hi phil
I can out of personal experience say you are absolutely correct about the roll over. My sidewalls were more worn out then the top of the tyre itself (rs3 so heavy car tho). Same goes for the cup2, you need more camber and also should not start with too low of a tyre pressure 2.1 bar is my go to with cup 2's and you need a good alignment setup with enough camber.
Thoughts on the Continental SportContact 7? Quite a lot of M car folks are switching to these from the PS4S…
ive never run them mate but they seem top notch from the reviews.
I switched from ps4s, amazing tyre, better grip in dry, almost doesnt need any heat, even on my 2nd season grip is still there which i had an issue with ps4s. But I wouldnt reccomend it for track use - too soft. In wet its another level than ps4s, much much better, not comparable.
Can't go wrong with conti premiumcontacts for me, though the sc7 would be the choice when given the choice
Thanks for the great comparison and analysis of the tires.
My Nissan 370z sport coupe came with Bridgestone Potenza S007 tires that lasted about 15K miles. They had excellent grip and steering responsiveness, with nice stiff sidewalls. My next set was the Michelin PS4S that was a great tire, except for the sidewalls that were too flexible that led to loss of steering response and a vagueness in the steering feel. Those tires lasted 35K miles with some tread left, without rotation. Their wet performance was excellent. I currently have the Michelin PS Cup 2(240) and really love them. The steering responsiveness and precision is significantly better than the PS4S with their stiffer sidewalls. The noise is only slightly louder than the PS4S and the wet performance, while not as good as the PS4S, is acceptable if one drives accordingly. I don't mind paying the extra money, as long as I can get at least 21K or 22K miles out of them, which I will according to my wear projections. Another great thing about these Michelin tires is their much lighter weight than most other tires, -6 lbs, approximately, in comparison to the Bridgestones. I attribute this, in part, to the use of Aramid(Kevlar) fiber in the belts in place of steel, the Aramid being stiffer and lighter than steel. The outer periphery of the tire is exactly where you want to take off rotational mass.
cup2 is really for track mate, its such a soft compound using it on the road is just gonna wear it. you actually cant drive a car hard enough on the road to utilise cup2 tyres they need heat to yield their grip. road is full of debry and junk and poor surface condition. Use cup2 because you want to go faster on a circuit on good tarmac. otherwise I would go for fast UHP road tyre. I would avoid the PS4s because of the reason you mention, compound is very good but the sidewall is too thin. I would look towards goodyear super sport perhaps.
@@ForensicDetailing Thanks for the recommendation, much appreciated. Are you using the original Cup 2s that are a 180 tread wear tire? Those are definitely a highly track oriented tire. Michelin came out with a reformulated compound Cup 2 that is better balanced than the 180 tire and that is designated the Cup 2(240l, which is what I have.
You make a good point about what one is giving up in that tire in using it on the street and I'll just have to see what kind of tread life it delivers. My initial projections are for about 22k miles for the rear tires, they're wearing faster than the fronts and so I will up the tire width by 10mm on the next set.
My favourite tyres are a set of four black rubber Goodyear Eagle F1's I had on a pearlescent Diablo Red '02-plate 106 GTi I owned about 9 years ago. I love them because they made the alloys look fantastic and transformed the car's already good handling. They never cracked, perished or went brown. The steering had more weight to it and the car had considerably more grip than before. Of course I would still own the car today if it wasn't hit from behind by a short fat blonde 20-something loser in a Fiat 500 on her phone.
I’ve got the Millway track camber plates and they aren’t noisy.
no noise from them at all?
What size tyres are you running?
I talked about this?
These are some of the best tires you can get, but these need to be warmed up. They’re for the track, not street (you still can drive on street but I wouldn’t). Test reviews show on tirerack how much Michelin blows away the competition. I’d get 4S tires for the street.
So your keeping the M4 cs then, smart move 🤔
i change my mind like I change my underpants... at least once a month :)
@@ForensicDetailing 😂
I’m sure Porsches are better sports cars but can’t beat M Cars for all round use-ability
@@TimChump As someone who has owned and tracked his 981 GT4 since 2016, I will absolutely disagree. Unless you need the rear seats, the BMW does nothing better if you want a good street car that is brilliant on track. Brakes last forever, I have only done one clutch in over 50k km of which at least 30k is track.
Ar1 would be a better choice for track but more compromised on the road. If it rains with a little respect they are acceptable to use.
do you know if they come in the sizes I need Mike?
Isn’t there a PS 5 now. Not sure if that’s better than PS4S.
the PS5 is a replacement for the PS4. I think theres a PS5s coming out but size options are borked right now IIRC
Recently replaced all four on my 911, I asked the opinion of several local tyre fitters, none of them had anything good to say about Michelins. The recommendations were Bridgestone, Goodyear or Pirelli, which were considerably cheaper and lasted longer.
Toyo R888R or Yokohama AD09
The R888R are absolutely overrated garbage. Have you even driven on those?
Nice setup
I hate Cup2 so much. Both Cup2 and Dunlop Sport Maxx Race2 are OEM on my GT4 but cup2 is just a lot less grippy and more sensitive to temperature. Too easy to get overheat and cup2 starts to lose grip. On the other hand Dunlop is more consistent, there is barely any performance degradation after 20 minutes of track. Cup2 takes 1 lap to get heat and falls off after 5 laps (~10 min). I was able to get 5 sec quicker on Dunlop than Cup2. Never going to get Michelin again. There are other great tire options, for example Goodyear F1 supercar 3 (OOS on tirerack due to high demand) and Yokohoma AD09.
I cant find anything in the size i need beyond michelain. Im really open to trying stuff. I find the grip from the cup2 is incredible for hot lapping but yes needs warning up, and yes will start melting if you abuse it. Was wondering if the cup2 R would be any better but suspect if its faster it will just be softer.
Channels= sipes 👍
You are trying to do too much and searching for the holy grail… good on road/mileage/wet performance and out standing dry track performance…
You are now at the point of needing a second set of wheels, get some dedicated dry track tyres for dry track days and some good road/wet tyres for the rest of the time.
Im aware theres compramises I think I said that in the video, theres never gonna be a perfect choice for all scenarios. but for me Im not gonna go into the realms of swapping alloys around for track days, the car throws a wobbly without the TPMS but its just such a ball ache swapping alloys over and having spare sets lying around. so I think the cup2 might be the best option for me although I just like trying different tyres.
I will never buy Michelin ever again, they are overpriced rubbish. I’ve used Avons for years on my focus RS and m140i, last longer stick like glue in the rain and almost half the price.
Cool, so all the blind tyre tests are set up then? 😂
@@Mac_F87 I’m just stating my opinion, I’ve used Michelins in the past and they were terrible. Everyone buys in to how great they are because manufacturers put them on new cars and TH-camrs seem to love them but to me they are crap and I’ll never buy them again. If you are happy buying overpriced rubber then go ahead I’ve found a make I like with better performance at half the price.
So you tell me a tyre I can run on my m4 comp thats half the price and faster (i tried every cheaper performance option over the years with the M135/m140 and m240. Ill put them on and go for a hot track day at good wood again and compare times. You can come along and sit in the car with me so you know Im going as fast as I can. If I can go faster on your tyre recomendation that has to be half the price I will give you 1000 pounds. If I cant you give me 1000 pounds?
@@ForensicDetailing Avon zv7 tyres got them on my m140i right now been on the track at knockhill and they stuck like glue even in the wet!
I have been in the tyre trade for over 40 years. The rubber compounds Michelin use are far superior to Avon.
Avon are good but don’t stand up to the Michelins. I was an independent tyre dealer.
The BMW is the ultimate driving machine.
My brotha, an ar1 is treadwear 100, cup 2 is treadwear 240 so no an ar1 is not gonna last longer but that being said because you were so focused on the sidewalls you should try the ar1 because it's got a lot of a stiffer sidewall than a cup2, a cup2 and trofeo r are best for lighter cars, not heavier than 1400kg.
size is the biggest problem. I think cup2 and trofeo are only real precise correct options. but the cost of them is ludicrous. If I go hard at it I can destroy a set of cup2 fronts on one track day. running all these high performance cars is a joke. Im down grading to something less quick :) you miss out on all the fun taking a car like this to a track day I think.
Dont make sense on UK roads. 4S are better. Maybe if you go on a track day.
No need to use a marker to gather data, it’s 2023 step up or game bub or else you’ll lose following🫢
Yes because you really know a lot about building a you tube channel. Use a marker loose subscribers lol what Fing idiot.