Repertoire: The BEST Bruckner Symphony No. 5
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2024
- This strange, quirky, emotionally exalting symphony may be the most "Brucknerian" of them all. Find out which recordings make the short list of great ones (and a few to avoid as well).
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I want to compliment you on speaking with such grace, clarity, passion and deep knowledge, all without notes ( I assume). You enrich the listening community more than you know.
I enjoy exploring different recordings because each one may capture the muse or help me make sense of a passage, an orchestration touch that speaks so well. This all makes live performances all the more satisfying....or not. I heard Steinberg conduct the LA Phil. in 70s. He sat in a raised chair for most of it, then stood for the climax of the slow mvt. An inspiring moment.
Notes? What are those?
Thank you for mentioning Ormandy 👍
I listened to the recording by BSO under Sawallisch. David, you nailed it. It displays the most silky tempo shifts without being saccharine. No rumbling, no coercive overworking in any way, but utterly masterful.
Glad you enjoyed it!
The 5th is my favorite! Thank u! That brass has it hard and feel for them. I like soft endings too but this is crazy.🤯 I always feel like I made it back home after an epic journey
Great episode!! The Wand with NDR has become my favorite for reasons you mentioned. I am amazed by what Wand accomplishes with the finale's fugue in particular, not always my favorite passage but here the texture is so clear that I find many interesting details and somehow Wand has me on the edge of my seat and the tension builds throughout. Wow! The whole performance is great! Over time I have come to deeply appreciate this symphony and find the finale one of the most life affirming and joyously exhilarating symphonic movements. I appreciate your appreciation as well :)
I really enjoy these repertoire videos- while I may have multiple copies of some works, I appreciate your advice in reference recordings and these surveys of the “best of” for things that I don’t have. I have streamed the Sawallisch and the Harnoncourt I agree both are very good.
Glad you think so.
God bless you Dave
Dave, greetings from the Penal Colonies. Elsewhere I have done my best to scratch out my thoughts re the Bruckner Fifth and its significance in the scheme of things - alas, I cannot come anywhere near your magisterial thoughts at the commencement of this talk. I repeatedly return to this video. It always fans my love of the B5 - the Symphony of Symphonies. Many thanks, Bernard
My pleasure. I'm delighted that it resonated with you. I mean, if you live in a Penal Colony, you need all of the diversion you can get.
@@bernardohanlon3498 Oh please. I know that. Everyone knows that.
It is absolutely astounding that there is so little mention of Karajan's B5.
That I'll agree with. HvK's Bruckner 5th is tremendous - monumental in the best way.
@@tomgauterin1723Evidently the rest of the world does not necessarily agree with you, and why should it? This doesn't mean you're wrong--there is no right or wrong here--but why should you be surprised when others don't share your view. especially in such a limited field?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I don't think I did express surprise - I was merely saying that I thought the HvK was really good. I think Bernard may have been surprised?
@@tomgauterin1723 Yes, I think you're right.
BP by a mile
It is an incredible, and as you say, very unusual symphony. Bizarre, even. But it works! I actually listen to it rarely, but when that finale hits, it really hits.
Delighted that you had the von Dohnanyi on your list and rated so highly., since he's often undeservedly overlooked. It's always been my favorite and the recording I'd have if I could only have one. Also love the Jochum/Dresden and agree that Karajan and Chailly--despite the great heights they reach with Bruckner elsewhere--don't really belong in the mix. I'll have to check out the Ormandy and Swallisch based on your recommendations.
Great review, thanks! As to the recording quality of the 1986 live Jochum/Concertgebouw on Tahra, sounds fine to me, and it's certainly one of my favorites.
I was introduced to the Bruckner 5th by the Ormandy performance on LP! I was amazed by the intricate counterpoint and power of the piece. I then bought the HvK. I did not like the homogenized sound, but did like the way the pizzicato strings emerge from nothingness in the first and fourth movements. Ormandy seems to just start without any mystery. I purchased Solti (a read-through), Welser-Most (Ho-Hum), Zander (all talk--an academic performance), Klemperer (granitic--typical Klemperer), Celibidache (slow , but interesting) Jochum (solid) and then Sawallisch. It has the best of everything. I completely agree with Dave on this one.
I don't know if you mentioned that the Harnoncourt / VPO performance. In the CD set, one whole CD is included of Harnoncourt rehearsing the orchestra which is quite interesting. The brass sound is fabulous in rehearsal recording, especially in the finale, with none the of the "knob job " toning down I hear on the CD of the complete symphony...
Wow David, you make me a huge pleasure this evening because in my opinion the fifth of Bruckner is his best. I would also hope that the version of Harnoncourt would be among your choices. What a great interpretation! The most exciting performance I have Heard for a long time. A performance for the ages! Harnoncourt and the Vienna Philharmonic in splendid form!
Thanks! Yes, Harnoncourt is a stunner.
My favorite is the Van Beinum live performance with the concertgebouw orchestra. I think it was 1956, he did it. The forte with van Beinum in Bruckner is always, serene.
Thanks David. I found just the finale of the Swallisch version on you tube, as a taster. Interesting. I'm so glad he sped up to announce the arrival of the first movement, towards the end of the finale, and kept going at that pace. Otherwise I thought Swallisch was giving celibidache competition on how slow he could play. Not sure why conductors have to play Bruckner so ridiculously slowly. But it was great sound quality here and you could hear the different sections clearly. I will give this version a try. ...
Another perceptive, informative assessment of one of my favorite Bruckner symphonies, which I first came to know via Haitink's first recording. I agree with your recommendations and would probably add the Barenboim/Chicago recording. Jochum's highly touted 1986 live recording with the Concertgebouw is very good but not better than the Dresden performance. The story goes that after the Amsterdam performance Jochum repeated the entire finale as an encore. Being a trumpet player myself, I can imagine the Dutch cursing of the brass section when Jochum did this. Dohnanyi is really fine but to my ears the recording slightly dampens the full impact of the brass in loud passages.
Oh wow, I don’t have any of these recordings. I better get busy. I’ve always glossed over the fifth but it’s time to revisit now.
Sawallisch! Yes! “A giant cosmic engine pushing through to the end” Thank you for a very perceptive review.
Dohnanyi's Bruckner recordings are variable, but 5 and 9 are top shelf imo. You're absolutely right, you hear Szell's imprint in the playing of what was a fabulous ensemble in that era. Their Boston appearances used to be a highlight for me- Busoni's piano cto., an amazing Three Places in New England, etc.
No. 5 is the Bruckner symphony I return to again and again over the years. An incredibly beautiful work with many intricacies and magic moments. The first recording I ever heard, as a teenager was the Knappertsbusch on Angel which is of the oddball Schalk version with cuts and rescored passages. Strictly for scholars, but even it captivated me as a kid. I agree that the Ormandy version is wonderful. I think I read in Robert Simpson's book that the short, octave leap motive in the finale, upon which Bruckner builds a magnificent triple fugue, symbolically represented the composer as an awkward country bumpkin from rural Austria in sophisticated Vienna, which Bruckner felt he was by the time he wrote the Symphony. It is a strange, melodically haunting and magnificent piece.
I have the Dhonanyi and the Wand recordings both are terrific
I have the Blomstedt cycle with Leipzig on Querstand - 2013 ICMA recipient. This set is rarely talked about. Dave - what are your thoughts?
My «sleeper» performance for the Bruckner fifth is Chailly with the RCO. Excellent conducting, excellent playing and excellent recording. What's not to love?
Good performance. I have it. Perhaps a little undisciplined in rhythm and tempo.
@@mr-wx3lv I'm surprised by your comment. Could you point out where in the symphony this happens?
I love it too…but you are acting like the banana salesman from Beverly Hills Cop.
@@Shentazam I'm not sure what you mean?
@@flowsouth8496 Please excuse me.
I am a doofus.
Attention to detail and pacing are incredibly important for this symphony as you rightly pointed out.
For me, it’s hard to beat Asahina’s 90s recordings with Tokyo orch. Celibidache’s would be a close second.
Any comments, from either our host DH or any other members of the peanut gallery, concerning the Lovro von Matacic / Czech Phil B5? Aside from some curiosities in the edition--- I think it adds a modest smattering of the additions from the apocryphal Schalk version--- some of the rapid passages in the Finale seem to be taken at a mercilessly quick clip. Have not heard that recording in eons, though, so it is entirely possible my memory of it is not as vivid as ideal. Thoughts or comments-?
I know Haitink recorded it over and over again, but his live recording with the BRSO is pretty special I think. The orchestral playing is wonderful!
I have four Haitink recordings (Amsterdam, Vienna, Berlin, BRSO), and whilst listening to the Bavarian recording I am thinking this must be the best played, conducted, sound. But he then slammed on the brakes in the coda of the final movement and the cumulative energy seemed to drain away.
@@sbor2020 Seems right to my ears
This is my favourite. I was lucky enough to hear this very concert live and it is to the day still the greatest concert experience of my live. I sat there in tears. Overjoyed.
I totally agree about Gunter Wand.
I want to add that there is yet another Gunter Wand Bruckner 5th on RCA but with the Berlin Philharmonic who do not tire and it's a great performance in wonderful sound. This is from his incomplete set with only 4,5,7 and 9. I have them individually in SACD format and they sound great.
Maybe you'd like to tackle what and how all the Wand Bruckner recordings came to be? I would be interested in what you know.
Keep up the great work David.
I too have an overflow room(s) and your reviews often propel me to ferret out lost and forgotten treasures such as my trove of Gunter Wand Bruckner recordings that got pushed aside and are worth some listening hours.
Thanks for all your efforts.
The Wand/Berlin recording is absolutely magnificent!
@@janouglaeser8049 Yes it is.
I was late coming to Bruckner's 5th and to Wand but I'm catching up. I'm a life long Bruckner fan of some 50 years and his music continues revealing itself to me with each performance.
Actually I'm lucky I waited. Imagine after 50 years having a "new" Bruckner Symphony to get to know and revisit. Thanks for saying Hi
Of the many you recommended, I obtained Ormandy, von Dohnanyi, Jochum (emi), Sawallisch. The last two I loved the most.
So I'll add to those I have: Karajan, Wand (2 live recordings), von Matacic, Einhorn, Horenstein (!), Wand, Cologne, Sinopoli/Dresden, my imprint recording (I love it). Any comments on those?
Nope. Sorry. I have opinions, of course, but honestly I am sort of working on other stuff right now. Thanks for understanding.
Thanks for this David. I have the Ormandy/Philadelphia recording, love it and agree with your comments. Also loved your comment about the Flintstones, which Alf Clausen was directed to incorporate into the 'Simpsons' main title. So we live with the Brucknerian legacy to this day.
I note that the '61 Kertesz/VPO Dvorak 9th was missing from your top recordings list. This is my go-to LP for guts and glory. Any thought about doing a survey of the the Decca/VPO/Sofiensaal body of work?
Speaking of which, I found the '60 Karajan/VPO Strauss early tone-poem tracks online, from Don Juan through Zarathrustra ('59.) Fabulous.
I think the 'Burleske' deserves to be lumped into that group as a proto-tone-poem. What a messy, enthusiastic, ironic, youthful, brilliant work. Awkwardly written, as my pianist friend Bill says: "It might be worth learning if anyone actually liked it..." I LOVE it. It's the attention-deficit anthem. I know it got a great reception when he premiered it with 'Tod und Verklaerung.' If you care to share your feelings about it, I will be an enthusiastic viewer.
My best from sunny Seattle.
Thanks very much!
And much obliged to ye for providing the key to Bruckner's compositional template in your 6th symphony episode!
I was able finally to track down a copy of Sawallisch's Bruckner 5 in the UK (they are rare it seems), and it is a revelation. It is better than the von Dohanyi /Cleveland and the Wand recordings IMHO. I have to rank it as the best Bruckner recording I have heard in terms of sound quality (that bass shakes my house, amd I can hear each violin string being "plucked") and up there with some of my favourite Bruckner 9 recordings in terms of pure listening addiction (the Skrowaczewski/Minnesota and Karajan/Vienna live 1976 recordings being my two favorites right now).
For me, the ne plus ultra is Welser-Most with the LPO (EMI). This has much to do with the gargantuan timpani at the close. This is what I look for in recordings.
I love that performance, but its availability has been so spotty recently (at least physically; don't know about streaming services).
I heard Abbado do that same thing as Skrowaczewsky with the hidden flute notes in the coda of the finale in one of his televised late performances at Lucerne with the Lucerne Festival Orchestra: the sudden diminuendo for a bar or so and then the fortissimo again. It was the first time I had ever heard what the flute plays at that point as it's otherwise totally inaudible. I wonder who thought of this effect first. I must admit they sound a bit strange.
Fun fact: when Franz Schalk produced his heavily modified edition of the 5th for publication, he cut out those two bars altogether!
I’ll have to check out Ormandy’s, despite being happy and content with Haitink. Sawalisch too, of course. I listened to Sawallisch and it’s excellent! Ormandy next.
What do you think of Jochum's last live performance with the Concertgebouw from 1986? It's on TH-cam and used to be available on Tahra but I wasn't under the spell of the 5th yet. Have many recordings but it was Wand on DVD years ago that slowly unlocked the gate for me.
The Jochum is a nice souvenir, but unnecessary. How many versions by the same guy do we need?
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you David. Point well taken. Don't think of myself as a total nutjob even though I have close to 20 recordings (HvK, Haitink, Jochum, and Schuricht accounted for 11 of them to prove your point, lol), and I like the Jochum/Dresden but not the sound so much, so I just wanted to hear your opinion of his last live version to see if that could be the elusive one. Actually I haven't listened to this symphony for a while but after just watching your video I plan to get a copy of the Harnoncourt and I'm not a Harnoncourt fan. However, I do prefer his slower version of that Marais piece for violin and gamba to the more famous Savall version. I know, gamba, your favorite instrument. :)
@@DC-fx7uq Of course you're not a nut job, but just remember, there is no "elusive one." Bruvkner's Fifth is not a mythical beast or the Holy Grail. It's just a symphony--an odd one, to be sure, but just music.
@@DavesClassicalGuide David, you're making too much sense. Sometimes it's the chase that keeps most of us interested knowing full well there's no "elusive one" in any pieces of music. And I understand Bruckner in his compositions was just a servant to a higher being. I admit I'm not as passionate about classical music in general as I once was and I'll be perfectly fine with just 4 or 5 versions with different approaches of this symphony or for that matters any other pieces of music that I like. My favorite Bruckner is actually the 9th and lately I listen to a lot more Bach and early music. I should have been more specific about the term elusive in this case applying to Jochum only whose DG 7th left me deeply impressed way back when. IMHO his EMI Dresden set needs a remaster. I remember my first Debussy LP was Ormandy with a Monet on the cover and in the early CD era a bunch of Dutoit/Montreal in the French repertoire and they still sound nice but what revelation when I "discovered" Ansermet, Munch and company and so sometimes the search could be rewarding.
Dohnanyi and Abbado (Vienna) are both great in Bruckner 5! Dohnanyi's particularly a terribly underrated Brucknerian - particularly 4,5,9. What do you think of those antique Bruckner 5's from Furtwangler/Berlin and Bohm/Dresden?
I think we can ignore them. There's nothing they do that hasn't been done better since.
Enjoying the Bruckner reviews during the bicentennial! There is another detail at the end of Skorwaczewski's finale: the horns take the response theme up an octave. After hearing this, every other recording that stays in the lower octave is a letdown.
One of the acid tests for me is that the strings are not drowned out by the brass, especially in the finale. The strings for me are like a frame or garland within which the symphonic icon including the rest of the orchestra is constructed.
Great picks. Speaking of Dohnanyi/Cleveland, if it weren't for the stupid metallic "ping" hammer strokes, Dohnanyi's Mahler 6 would be among my very favorites. Cleveland just plays so fabulously on it and Decca recorded them superbly.
Hi Dave! Greetings from Caracas, Venezuela…. I’m a great lover of this superb piece of music…I’ve always considered Furtwaengler’s 1942 BPO to be emotionally outstanding…No slowing down in the coda, the music thrusting forward… Tell me
your opinion…Thanks!!!
I think there are many better performances, obviously in much better sound. More importantly, I was in Caracas several times and I miss it. I hope you're doing well.
@@DavesClassicalGuide thanks for replying!! So you’ve been in this crazy city!!! Big surprise!! I’m a member of the Venezuelan Wagner Association ( it’s called Asowagner), and we get together from time to time to talk about music, although meetings have been scarce, due to the passing away of our president, Eduardo Chibas, one year ago…I’m a doctor ( pediatric neurologist), but classical music is mainstay in my life since I was a little kid… By the way, what’s your opinion about Schubert’s Quintet version with Stern and Casals( 1953 I think)??
Lovely review. I admit that I just discovered this symphony recently, been listening to Haitink with the Bavarian Orchestra, it sounds pretty ideal to me, no dull moments. What do you think?
If you saw the video then you know what I think!
Abbado´s 5th is certainly a surprisingly great recording.
I have problems finding the first three movements as only introduction since its so great music (like the only the first movement) . But as u said the greatest Bruckner in so many ways, I have a feeling for the Furtwängler Bruckner and a great live perfomance by the LPO and Welser-Möst.
Perhaps I am commenting too much (collateral damage of the quarantine?), but can't resist mentioning I share most of your recommendations for Bruckner's Fifth Symphony. In fact I have the Jochum/Staatskapelle, and the Scrowaczewski sets among others. With regard to the Scrowaczewski, the flute arpeggio you mention registers very clearly in a live version he recorded with the London Philharmonic, available in Apple Music. The Harnoncourt is very good indeed and I attended one of concerts -in June 2004, during the Juni Festwochen- when the live recording was made!
What do you think of the live Jochum recorded with the Concertgebouw in December 1986, months before his death? Thanks again for the excellent series.
I can't recall having heard the live Jochum--I think I gave up after 3 versions! I'm very glad you are enjoying the videos, and I appreciate all of your comments. Thank you.
@@davecook8378 Yes, those I do know, but I have to say that in general I lose interest in seeing these multiple versions of the same thing by the same guy just because he happened to take it on tour. If he did one that I like then don't feel any need to risk disappointment by listening to another. This has become a particular problem these days, because orchestras self-produce their own releases, and so you hear guest conductors hopping from place to place playing the same thing. The worst offender in that regard, I think, was Bernard Haitink, who once gave a Gramophone interview where he decried conductors who record Mahler too often, and then he went and did it himself, over and over and over.
What do you think of the wand bruckner 4 in Berlin? It’s how I learned the symphony.
That's my favorite! (and I'm no fan of the Berlin Philharmonic)
My problem with taking the adagio too slowly is this: towards the end of the Adagio, you have these descending and ascending sets of triplets in the strings (and sometimes woodwinds) with almost nothing else going on. It can sound VERY saccharine if it's taken too slowly. And, after all, this is one of Bruckner's few Adagios where it doesn't really reach a true climax.
I agree. Also, those descending sequences can really drag. That's probably why he wrote it in cut time, even though I think most performances of necessity take it "in four."
Do you like the Sinopoli/Dresden live version on DG? It's one of my favourites and I kind of expected it might be on your list?
My own take on Sinopoli's 5 was, stunning sound, great engineering, great playing, but overall it just left me cold... Sadly.
@@davidwyatt850 I can understand your reaction. Sinopoli's approach is somewhat emotionally detached in this reading, but I really enjoy the sober clarity of it, and how it presents every strand of the work with perfect balance and logical sense. I read a review of it once that hit the nail on the head when it stated it was rather like an X-ray of the work.
50 minute intro to the finale. Wow, thank you. That really helps for me as a first-timer to this work. I love the "famous" ones (4, 7, 8, 9) but this one seems to get far less attention. Quick question: How long does that slow intro to the 1st mvt last? Like around 2 mins, 45 sec? Basically after the big brass eruption?
Yes, that sounds about right.
@10:23 Swore for a sec you were going to mention that reoccurring theme in 1st movement of Mahler's 6th. Of course it was the Flintstones!
I have Haitink's VPO version which is rather dull imo. LOVE the Abbado. I think I have the Harnoncourt.
I have listened to about 20 renditions of Bruckner Symphony 5 by many of the great conductors as listed in this video. So far the Jochum with Dresden was my favorite, but I was not 100% satisfied so I kept searching and searching knowing If all else fails I can rely on Jochum then I found this Japanese conductor Takashi Asahani on a Japanese import SACD and wow, now I have two superb renditions, I might give Asahani my no.1 spot simply because the sound quality is 10/10 and I don't think some Asian conductors get the recognition they deserve, this imo was well conducted and played by the orchestra in Japan.
I'm glad you enjoy Asahina. I find him dull and indifferently played, but as you say, the sonics are great.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I know you are not a fan of Asahina and thank you for your honest opinion.
Hallo Mr. Hurwitz! Your videos are always very interesting! What do you think about Karajan's interpretation of Bruckner's Fifth? I think he recorded it only once for a complete symphonies project...also interesting is the set with Württembergische Philharmonie Reutlingen and Roberto Paternostro. Not all is done "right", but there are some wonderful moments and Maestro Paternostro knows the Bruckner's complexities very well...kind regards and take care!
Karajan's Fifth leaves me cold because I think his typical pursuit of textural smoothness and blend ill-serves the music, especially in the finale.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Yes...Karajan was a great master in blending sounds and color in a score...sometimes works well, sometimes not :) I have to confess anyway: I'm a fan of Karajan :D
@@giacomofirpo2477 I saw Karajan/V.P.O. do Bruckner 5 in Vienna (Musikverein.) in 1981. To this day, it's still the single greatest performance of anything I've ever heard/seen. For the life of me, I can not figure why that one never has never seen the light of day as an 'official release' or pirate. I guess nobody had any microphones turned on.
@@barryguerrero7652 Wow! What a wonderful experience! Unfortunately I have never seen Karajan live - I know him only by recordings because I'm of another generation :D but I know that there were two Karajan: one for the studio recording, another for live recordings. I heard a live recording for example of his performance of Sibelius Fifth and Honegger's Third Symphonies...quite another artist! The studio performances are totally different...he was a truly great master because he could renewing himself in live performances....
@@barryguerrero7652 Barry - how jealous I am. I too am a staunch advocate of Herbie's B5. Another terrific one is Kurt Eichorn's account. Kna is to be avoided in the B5, sad to say.
Is a Bruckner 7 overview coming? I just did my own overview and realize that this is a lucky symphony on disc! So many great ones. Would love to hear your opinions! I hope you will at least mention (even to say you don't like) a few that on get a lot of discussion on Bruckner forums have some real fans: Knappertsbusch (as great as it's reputation?) , Szell/Vienna (Is the panning by critics justified?), Jochum (which is best? I now like DG Berlin. Are these late performances worth tracking down?). Karajan (BIG debate--which is best? I keep changing my mind, but right now DG Berlin). Barenboim and Blomstedt (with all these cyles, which one if any? I don't have $ to hear them all. Haven't heard them ALL, but Blomstedt on Denon is outstanding), and Nelsons, Nelsons. What do you think on CD? (I think the video online with Leipzig is really interesting--after giving it a few listens, I like it now). Of course I left out a bunch, but these might be some of the big questions we want to hear your opinion on. :) :)
You would probably be disappointed, although I'm genuinely flattered that you are curious about my opinion. I think Bruckner fans are mostly nuts and I'm not interested in obscure live or historical recordings when, as you say, there are more than enough excellent ones that are easy enough to come by.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Guilty as charged (nutty Bruckner fan).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Me too. Long live Kna!
@@DavesClassicalGuide As for me, the Celibidache/Munich Phil performance of this symphony on video, which inaugurated the Gasteig Hall in Munich.
The Dohnanyi is my reference. But Gielen did a very intriguing job in his recording. No brakes in the Finale. I think he actually speeds up and there are some unusual brass notes at the end as well. I’m not sure of the edition he was using.
I like Gielen too--he just takes the trumpets up an octave at the very end for a couple of notes, if I recall correctly. It's very exciting.
I heard Gielen do it live in Cincinnati in ca. 1984. It was positively electrifying.
The audience in Cincinnati hated Gielen because of all the modern music he did. But my goodness, that performance absolutely raised the roof.
Can't mention everyone, but what about Horenstein 1971 (BBC Legends)?
Yes! What is your opinion on this one? The ending is so tremendous!
@@Barbirollifan Thanks. I think the Horenstein is wonderful all the way through: he gets it just right, as does NDR Wand in the recording DH mentions in his video.
Don't expect any positive response from Hurwitz regarding Horenstein recordings
@@johnoconnor683 If by Horenstein 1971 you mean the Proms performance on 15th September, I was there, and yes, it was great.
You have mentioned Lovro von Matacic playing a certain version with the Czech Philharmonic. My streamer only offers Matacic with the French Radio Orchestra (on naïve). Do You know, whether that was the same version as in the Czech recording?
It was not.
Just curious, David: how do you rate Celibidache's Bruckner? I am heavily prejudiced, because as an early teenager I was dragged to several of his interminable performances in the early 1980s, and I still think that constitutes child molestation. But I'm interested in your perspective (and no one is at their best as a teenager).
I think Celi was like anyone else--hit and miss. He could be slow and inspired, or slow and excruciating, and you could never predict which it would be. Either way, he would be slow (at least in his later performances).
@@DavesClassicalGuide Maybe he's also not entirely accurately represented by the Celi cult, which is one of the weirdest (and most saccharine) I know.
Celi got 14 rehersals, whilst other conductor get about 5. Judge how much the Berliner Philharmoniker enjoyed the experience in 1992:
th-cam.com/video/KOq_mSIvlbI/w-d-xo.html
Celi with Munchen PO is hit and miss indeed (I have the full cycle), but B4, B6, B8 are all exceptional performances! These became my reference points even though Celi wasn't the first (or second/third) conductor I heard in Bruckner (talking about imprints). If you get the full Munchen boxset you might be disappointed, but these three are essential.
@@sbor2020 judging from the faces I reaaallllly doubt they enjoyed 14 rehearsals under any conductor
Talking about the balance between the Adagio and the Scherzo...Do you think that Solti's Adagio is monotonous? Is it too slow? Or is it just fine?
What do you think?
@@DavesClassicalGuide I like it. I prefer the longer length Adagio versions, but not Karajan's. Do you recomend any other slower version?
@@CaioLopes1989 No, that's about as slow as it gets.
Bruckner sect here: Jochum is for me.
I'm sure I must be the only person out there who enjoys Leon Botstein, LPO recording of the 5th symphony. (Schalk Ed.)
Probably. It sucks.
Any thought on Asahina?
Yes.
David Hurwitz How is it?
@@DavesClassicalGuide A damning yes?
@@jatupholnuanjan1055 I find him to be pretty uninteresting.
I nearly died of boredom hearing this for the first time in Tokyo. All I member is I spilt wine before the show and the staff rplaced it gratis to the indignation of my Japanese companion who thought I was getting special treatment as a foreigner. I have or had Jochum (Dresden 1982); Haitink (Concertgebouw 1972); Celibidache; 2 Karajans; Tintner; Klemperer; Kempe. Some day I might have the revelation of this music.
It's not a rush. Either you will or you won't.
Por favor, te invito a que cojas la partitura y vuelvas a escuchar la versión de Celibidache pero esta vez sin prejuicios y sin comparar con otras, como si fuera la primera vez que la escuchas. Me resulta difícil creer que alguien que parece tan sensible no se de cuenta de la profundidad de la interpretación del maestro. "No me gusta porque es lento y pesado" la pregunta es por qué lo hace "mas" lento que otras versiones, con Celibidache siempre hay un porqué, te invito a descubrirlo
Por favor, no me insultes simplemente porque te gusta algo que a mí (y a muchos otros) no. Es infantil y tonto. Si escuchas algo especial en esa actuación, excelente. Celibidache no necesita que lo defiendas. He elogiado muchas de sus actuaciones, pero no esa, y creo que mis razones son muy buenas, especialmente cuando se comparan con las versiones que recomiendo.