Repertoire: The BEST Bruckner Seventh Symphony
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ค. 2020
- Although it was Bruckner's first and greatest success with the public, the Seventh is not an easy work to play. Consisting of two big, slow movements followed by two shorter, quicker ones, it requires smart pacing and a keen ear for texture. Here are the versions that rise to the challenge. Oh, and here's a delightful example of what can happen when the cymbal player in the Adagio gets bored:
• Bruckner 7 Becken - Ke... - เพลง
I'm proud to say I had every one of those 10 picks BEFORE I saw your video! The 7th is really what turned me from a Bruckner admirer into a Bruckner obsessed fanatic. In many ways I consider it a perfect symphony, maybe the best ever composed. It demonstrates perfectly how Bruckner built those edifices layer upon layer into a coherent whole with structure and flow, with the build up of huge exciting crescendos pacified by calm reflection. Emotional, romantic, soothing yet powerful, and yes, deeply spiritual. I never tire of listening to it, and it is my most purchased symphony, yes, even more than Beethoven 9th.
I agree with most of your takes on these versions. The Chailly, Karajan and Klemperer were some of my earliest purchases. When I discovered Wand I quickly obtained all his Bruckner. A great Brucknerian. As is Haitink, solid and granitic yet always adhering to the line. My most recent discovery is the Rosbaud which I have in a full Bruckner set. A great older recording.
Where we differ is Jochum, I feel he plays with tempos too much, unlike Wand, Haitink. And unlike you, I love Karajan's EMI BPO 7th recorded in the Christ Church Cathedral. You can feel the air and the back of the hall reverberance of the venue, it's not as dry as the last version with the VPO, although that's fantastic too.
As to ones I would put right up there with these 10, I would say Eichhorn with the Bruckner Linz Orchestra on Camerata is beautiful, sumptuous sound with playing quite close to that of the timbre of the VPO, especially the strings, and also with similar darker glorious rich brass. Maybe the best hidden Bruckner gem in my collection. I also love Guilini's VPO on DG that you did mention; Geilen with the SWR; and one can never go wrong with Bohm and the VPO. The VPO just has Bruckner in its DNA.
I've been fortunate to see the 7th performed live 4-5 times, and it never fails to raise the hairs on the back of the neck.
Among the older recordings, are you by any chance familiar with the Hans Knappertsbusch, Salzburg 1949?
Lovro von Matacic wtih the Czech Philharmonic is wonderful as well
I completely agree. The Czech Philharmonic is amazing
Thank you for a great survey! I learned so much!
The Karajan/Berlin recording on EMI is my favorite. The BPO has never sounded more radiant and Karajan brings out the symphony’s inner glow more than any other conductor I’ve heard. I agree that the Chailly is magnificent as well. He has a great sense of the piece’s architecture and shapes it beautifully. I am looking forward to listening to the Jochum performance as I’ve enjoyed his Bruckner 4th and 8th.
Totally agree with Edwin Belete re Karajan's 1970 EMI recording. The opening movement is utterly spellbinding here. The cavernous acoustic helps in this instance. EVERY other version I've heard (a dozen, say, including Karajan '75 and 'his final account with the VPO) sounds a touch prosaic after this. Sometimes you just know you will never hear a better performance of a particular work.
OMG ... absolutely loved the video clip in the introduction, had me literally rolling about with laughter. Thank you Dave - I'm sure you appreciated it even more as a percussionist!
Great thanks a lot for your insights!
High quality!
I really enjoy Karajan and Vienna. They always seemed to give a little more effort and attention to what they were doing when he conducted. You can’t tell that this was his last recording- of course his interpretation seemed to stay pretty consistent through the years. There are no really slow tempos or any sense that “I better take my time since this is my last hurrah” or any other romantic notions we put on last recordings.
The final Karajan recording of the 7th blows my mind. The second movement and the finale are miracles of sound. Love it.
So happy to see the RSO Berlin/Chailly made the cut. It was my introduction to Bruckner and I’ve never found another 7 as satisfying. I think the only other one I have from your list is the Karajan and I could not get past the sound (I have the release before the Karajan Gold edition). Haitink’s recording career also appears to have ended with this symphony. The Berlin Philharmonic just released on vinyl. My copy arrived, but I have not had a chance to hear it yet.
I love the von Karajan VPO final recording. Love the Giulini VPO recordings as well. I just got the Abbado Bruckner box with 19(Lucerne Festival), 4, 5,7, and 9 with the VPO. I really love the 7th especially. I know you are not a bit Abbado fan, but this was really gorgeous. Beautiful recordings.
I'm still grateful for your earlier recommendation of Haitink's Concertgebouw recording from 1978, and it's nice that you mention it again here. It was so very much worth the effort to track down! His command of structure, pacing and phrasing bring home what a great symphony this is. The way the Adagio builds is breathtaking. It's the recording I would use to introduce a friend to Bruckner. I should add that the physical CD is hard to find, but I was able to purchase a FLAC download from one of the major online classical music providers. I've bookmarked some of his other mid-career Bruckner recordings on Philips for future purchase.
another fine post, thanks for the musical education, David.
Nice anekdote. In 1986 the Concertgebouw Orchestra and Jochum went to Japan for a series of concerts - on the program: Bruckner 7. They gave 8 performances or so. Later a member of the orchestra wrote that at every performace the tempo's went slower and slower. At the last performance the tempo was slower than sound... :-)
I was able to find the Karajan/VPO today! Thanks for the review.
One great Bruckner 7 recording is Neeme Järvi leading the Residentie Orchestra from The Hague. Among other things, the slow 2nd movement clocks in at about 17 minutes. About 6 minutes faster than your average version of that movement. Not sure it’s still available, but it’s well worth looking for.
Finally! Someone who loves the Chailly recording as much as I do.
Great survey. I love Van Beinum in this symphony - really glad you mentioned him - and Jochum was always wonderful in this piece (I heard him do it live a couple of times, both superb). Others that I always enjoy: Böhm/Vienna PO (DG) and Matacic/Czech Phil (Supraphon). Quite fond of Solti's first (Vienna) version too. I wish Kempe had recorded it: he did it superbly in concerts.
So, so glad you cited the Jochum/Dresden as your fave. That's mine as well, and for all the same reasons...Jochum's perfect pacing of the first two movements AND the lovely, shimmering sound of the Dresden strings combined with the piquant WWS, and brazen brass. In fact, that whole cycle is my choice if one is to own only one complete set. (Of course, I own several!!!)
What has always struck me about Dresden's way with Bruckner is the difference in tapering of the notes from section to section. Many believe Bruckner must be played as though on an organ, as he was an organist. Well, I can certainly understand the influence of organ music on his compositional style, but it's virtually impossible to totally sustain long passages on brass instruments, as an organ does. One HAS to breathe at some point!!!!
Instead, total sustaining is held in the strings, with the WWs tapering the notes a bit, and the brass even a bit more. The subtle change in color through the phrase, IMO, propels the music forward regardless of tempo.
In the end, the "rustic" Bruckner comes out more.
When I want to hear stellar brass playing, I'll hear Barenboim/Chicago. When I want to hear the soul of Bruckner, I choose Dresden.
Chailly's choice of tempos was revelatory for me. The breathtaking slow and layered coda of the introduction is followed by a brisk and engaging Adagio - bringing a sense of architectural balance to the whole performance.
These videos are very useful. The discography of this symphony is crazy. In the last year only three different live recordings of Haitink's interpretation of this symphony have been released (with Symphonie-Orchester des Bayerischen Rundfunks, 1981, with the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra, 2006, and with the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra, 2019)!
Thanks, David. I agree with the importance of this hard-to-define spiritual quality. I feel it in Haitink’s ‘79 recording, but I didn’t feel it in Karajan’s for EMI. For me, Karajan’s 1st/4th movement codas felt more testosterone-filled, they thrust horizontally and finish very abruptly; whereas Haitink’s sound like they’re moving and expanding vertically. They reach up. They exult. I think the difference is the slower tempo, and he lets the trumpets sing clear and true. The finale coda isn’t an abrupt cut-off. The trumpets ring out, and I think that’s how he gets that numinous, super-human quality. It’s ecstatic. I think that’s the one for me, although I do love Tintner & Jochum/Dresden.
Glad you included the Karajan. There is something special about final recordings of great artists. This is one that is special and great. I also like Bohm’s recordings of Bruckner.
I've been meaning to check out Lopez-Cobos in Cincinnati too, the ARG raved about the orchestral sound. I like all your choices, it's a lucky symphony!
Good stuff Dave. For mine, Knappertsbusch VP 1949 in amazingly good sound; Jochum and the Berliners (DG) from 1964; Karajan 1977 (DG) - and Uncle Karl and VP on DG from 1976 aint bad at all. . If you examine the timings of all three Karajan recordings, he progressively sped up in the B7 over time.
To be honest I'm not a great Bruckner devotee (although I have the complete Jochum EMI cycle) but love certain works including the Seventh. The earlier DG Karajan on vinyl was my preference but DG messed up the initial CD transfer, so my alliegencies changed to Chailly's.(superbly recorded as mentioned). Recently however I've been listening to Dohnanyi's Cleveland recording - it's refreshingly different refusing to allow Bruckner's textures to clog, is sensitiive and effective in it's use of rubato and the Cleveland just sound spontaneous and glorious. Worth a listen for something different I think.
Thanks for a terrific unbiased well-judged review. Jochum glows in Bruckner for sure!
Great Survey, David . Haitink's third, CSO recording is (for me at least) as fine as the great 1978 Concertgebouw . But one version that must be added to the list of great bruckner's 7th is the live 1977 of Bohm and the BRSO on Audite. Relatively brisk tempo- close to Klemperer- But superlatively played by this great orchestra, and Bohm is in his very best. Very good live recording: Must be heard!
I was about to make literally the same comment!
Dave, thank you for a very informative and perceptive presentation. This is one of my favorite Bruckner symphonies, and I have all of your recommended recordings save the Ormandy,Rosbaud, and van Beinum. We owned the Ormandy on LP but the sound seemed diffuse and congested; may need to check out the CD. I agree with your recommendations for Chailly, Tinter, Karajan/VPO,Haitink II (1978), and Jochum/Dresden. Wand/BPO is very special as well, and his live NDR recording is almost as fine. The superb Haitink/CSO performance on CSO Resound just misses reaching the same level as his 1978 Amsterdam account. I also rather like Solti/CSO because of the fabulous playing and the intensely broad treatment of the second movement. Barenboim/CSO, Giulini/VPO, Karajan/BPO (on DG) and Masur/NYPO (without the second movement cymbal crash) are very good as well.
Giulini and the VPO is very good. Giulini and the Philharmonia (BBC Legends) is rather special.
Terrific discussion; I also like two of Klemperer's performances from the 1950s- a 1955 performance with the BBC and a 1956 with the Bavarian orchestra- and both are relatively swift, although with inferior sound.
I played the 7th a few times, including in The Church of St. Paul the Apostle near Lincoln Center, conducted by Benjamin Zander (early 1980's). The reverb time in there was several seconds, and took getting used to. We could literally hear the sound moving away from us whenever we let go of long held chords. Zander encouraged us to think of the sections of the orchestra as choirs, to help with balance and being aware of how we fit into the bigger picture.
I've been listening to Giulini's SWR 7th Adagio - I have to say, I like hearing the climax w/out the cymbals.
I watched a wonderful TED talk by Zander, and had a suspicion he might be a Brucknerian, and he is!
Don’t know why, but I really enjoy Celibidache’s 7th. Your line of argument seems quite reasonable (beware of slow readings of already slow music), but the performance’s sheer intensity and “inner glow” makes up for the lagging feel. Specially in the lower strings. And at least to my ears (which are fond of everything Bruckner... 😊😊😊)
Fair enough. It's your choice!
Enjoyed listening the Tintner recording which was new to me
Something that sets the Jochum adagio apart from almost all other recordings is the emphasis he gives to the violins in the passage from 11’40” - it is incandescent beyond measure and surprisingly, almost no other recording adopts it - focusing instead on - or at least giving equal weight to - the repetitious lower strings. I can’t help but feel this emphasis is correct and finds a natural (perhaps intentional) correlation in the moonlight breaking through the clouds in the funeral march from Götterdämmerung.
I remember having Jochum on a vinyl with the BPO. Don't know if that still exists, but that was good. Awesome adagio playing in that...
Great video ! Agreed on ormandys Bruckner. His 4the is fantastic. He was, is underrated in many ways. I will have to find his 7th. The celibidache is tedious, more like me practicing a new work on the piano. Your spot on with your top 3, I just personally prefer by a small bit the chailly. I still have the old LP from 1984. I think, momentum is vital in the first movement, with sensitive contrast and rubato. Much like performing sibelius 7th.
Paul G
I've known this symphony for over 60 years but, following this review, I've played the Jochum recording and by golly I've never heard a performance like it. Has to be just about the best recording of any symphony, doesn't it? Stunning
So glad you enjoyed it!
Both informative and entertaining as usual, David. In regard to the first movement, I've never understood why almost 100% of conductors insist on turning a stretch of music marked Allegro Moderato into an Adagio. The main reason I agree with you about Ormandy is that he doesn't do this. Decades ago, Robert Bailey at Eastman SM offered the suggestion that the reason that most conductors take Bruckner too slowly was that Bruckner showed the influence of the Cecilian Movement by notating his music in larger note values, which encourages those slower tempos. Maybe. I like Chailly's recording too, except for the fact that the first and second movements are almost identical in regard to timing, around 22 minutes each. What do you think of Nelsons' Bruckner? I really like his 3, 4 and 7, less so his 6 and 9.
Karajan/BPO & Chailly are my favourites. I also have Blomstedt/Dresden which has great orchestral sound on Denon.
I agree with you about the Celibadache performance. It would be interesting to hear your views on this rather strange conductor, who I suspect overthought everything.
What intrigues me about Bruckner's seventh is the dynamics of the first movement. I mean for an organist he had amazing sense of delicate variations in the dynamics. In this work I always listen closely to how well the delicate dynamics are being executed in the first movement.
That's why it's stupid to say that his music sounds like the organ. If he wanted and organ, he would have written for it.
Listened to the Dresden Jochum for the first time; I've never heard anything like it! Truly, if there's an example where one could experience light aurally, this recording would be it. With the last two movements being somewhat anti-climactic, one could almost make an "unfinished" out of the first two movements.
I want to explore Tintner more. I have just one Bruckner recording by him (the Second Symphony), which I love. (I will not say which recording of the Seventh I thought was a good one. That will remain my dirty secret.)
The slow movement was used to staggering effect in the documentary series "World at War", narrated by Laurence Olivier. I love the piece although I am still puzzled by the structure of the last movement, despite the great ideas. Chailly, Jochum (there are two), Klemperer, Karajan are all wonderful. And, yes, Rosbaud.
I find the 7th confusing too, but there's a great blow-by-blow analysis video on youtube you can check it.
Wand's my favorite, hands down, no pun intended...
Apart from a couple which I haven't heard, I find myself in complete agreement with your selections! Should I be worried?
There is an interesting comparison between Klemperer's studio recording (1960) which you showed, and the off air recording from 1955 on ica classics. The earlier version is almost 8 minutes shorter. But as you said, the brisker approach can work just as well as the measured one, even from the same conductor.
I can't resist mentioning a wild card - Mravinsky and the Leningrad Philharmonic on Urania, coupled with the 8th. You have to tolerate dry sound and Soviet era Russian brass, but this is a great conductor interpreting a work for which he had no tradition to call on.
Thanks as always for your great overview! Lately, I have been really digging into Bruckner 7ths, trying to hear new ones and rehearing all of the famous ones. I have started to favor the slightly brisker performances as well, and for the same reasons you mention. My number one is the Jochum/BPO on DG. Jochum is so expressive, yet somehow always keeps a sense of forward momentum that is so necessary for this work. I love the Jochum/Dresden, but there is just too much ugly brass playing for my taste for it to be my #1 (regardless, I will rehear it today!) My Dresden choice is Blomstedt, which features gorgeous playing but also has massive climaxes and plenty of energy but more refined brass playing. I wash shocked in my recent rehearing by how great the Blomstedt is. Better than I had remembered! Glad you mentioned Gunter Wand, Haitink, and Karajan!
I have a DVD of the Cleveland Orchestra playing the Bruckner 7 under Welser Most. It is a wonderful performance of this masterpiece.
Only few can hold my concentration for 1 hr. : D Jochum emi is one of them.
Thanks a lot. I agree with your choice of Jochum/Dresden, but a couple of years later the Staatskapelle Dresden recorded it again with Herbert Blomstedt. Using state-of-the-art digital technology by Demon in the Semperoper - it is truly a glorious performance. As a fifteen year-old, I saw them when Blomstedt took them out of the DDR for a tour of the UK at the time (1981) with a memorable Brahms 1. What a wonderful sound the Dresdeners have!
That Blomstedt recording has always bored me.
I can't believe how many of your recommendations I own. Had even forgotten about a couple. I imprinted the Schuricht on Nonesuch (so beautiful), but moved on to Klemperer and Bruno Walter (wow!). But as you say, there are so many and lots of good ones. And yes, the Seventh is better than the Fourth 😉
I'm not what you would call a Toscanini fan however the live 1935 performance with NY Phil in Carnegie Hall can stand with any performance. Also of interest are the cuts he made in the fourth movement and changes in instruments. There are interesting critical accounts of the performance. Available on TH-cam
Completely agree, Jochums poetic adagio followed by his absolutely bada** heavy metal scherzo are both unmatched. This is the reference recording. I also like Chaillys. Blomstedt with Leipzig on accentus also gives me joy.
My first Brucnker 7th was Von Matacic with the Czech Philharmonic. I remember was barely 13, and the only movement that engaged me was the Scherzo. I thought Bruckner was dull and boring. Then I came across who but Solti! And the surprise was that the 1st movement could be fun too. I'd say my favourites now are, in this order, Skrowaczewski (the most transparent, clear, and luminous/, Wand with Belin, and ... please forgive me ... Celibidache with Munich!!! Yes, he takes forever. Yes he stretches every note to the limit. Yes he make it sound like the Titanic sinking slowly.. However, at the very last minute when all is going to fall down, he manages to move on, and I get this sense of anxiety moving forward, which I find exhilarating. It might well be Celi's 7th and not Bruckner's, but the transparency and the suspension of time are quite good! Chailly comes next, I am one of the Chailly converts, I find it difficult to name bad recordings from this guy.
very interesting and in this case useful, as i am getting ready to buy a 7th. my 1st choice would have been f. welser moest b/c i heard him with the st. louis symphony. shortly after the piece began, my friend leaned over and whispered 'he's conducting without the score.' anyway, st. louis concert goers loved fwm, and had it been up to them, he would have been offered the podium after slatkin's rather unceremonious ouster. so now i have a whole bunch of choices, which is great, b/c i am on a tight budget (uber), so i have to look more at the 'other recordings' section than the prime. anyway, dave, thanks for the suggestions and your usual fine explanation. you know (well how could you?) my very 1st hurwitz was tchaikovsky cycles. and there every time you mentioned bruckner, which was too often, you shuddered as you said his name, leading me to believe you did not like bruckner at all. wrong.
Thanks for your great insights! I was looking for your talk on best Bruckner 8, but couldn't find it. I'd appreciate if you can do one if haven't done so, otherwise please let me know the link. Thanks again!
Haven't done it yet, but I will.
Rosbaud was a revelation for me. After learning Bruckner from Celibidache, Rosbaud showed something rather special. It sounded "authentic" for me. As though Bruckner was conducting. If that makes any sense.
My favorite Bruckner 7ths were Herbie the K for both Vienna (last recording) and the BPO (1975 DG), and the Jochum with the BPO over "Dresden. Chailly did an excellent performance with Berlin Radio, but didn't quite attain the warmth and certainly the spirituality of Karajan or Jochum, but it was still a committed performance.
I have owned a CD of Herbert Blomstedt's 1980 digital recording of Bruckner's Symphony No. 7 with the Dresden Staatskapelle on Denon (a Japanese import) for over 30 years and am happy with it. It is an inspired performance with great sonics. It is my only recording of Bruckner's 7th. I am surprised it was not mentioned in this review.
That's because it's nothing special. Perhaps if you listened to some other versions, you'd understand that.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I defer to your judgement. Thank you for your reply.
@@jacklong2286 You're welcome, but seriously, try listening to some other versions and then revisit your initial opinion. It's fine if it hasn't changed, but at least then you'll have the weight of experience behind you.
Hi David! Thank you for this great video. You have to heard the newest Haitink Bruckner7 with Netherland Radio Philharmonic orchestra!! It is the perfect end of a great artist's life!
Yes, Bruckner is always beloved of conductors who are near death (or deserve to be). 😉
I was at this performance - it was emotional concert but to be honest: not Haitinks best. I still love his Concertgebouw 1978 recording.
@@janantonbrouwer3971 I’m so jealous! Thank you for the sharing. I never heard him in live. 2019 is closest one I was in Salzburg, but I didn’t get tickets.
Listened to the ‘79 Haitink last night and was blown away! Wanted to hear the Ormandy next for a little contrast, but couldn’t find it on Spotify. Listened to the Bernstein Mahler 3 on DG (for the 1,000,000th time) instead. And speaking of Mahler 3, I don’t think you have!
Also, sorry for the lack of commentary in my comment - just now getting into the symphony, I’d only heard the finale until yesterday!
Anton Bruckner's Symphony No. 7... In the face of this sublime music, what can I say that would be of value to any other listener? What can I say that hasn't been said before? Here we come into territory which for me is sacred ground, music where the notion of an objectively “best” recording becomes irrelevant, where the listener's response-or at least, my response-is wholly personal, where the opinions of critics and of other listeners don't matter to me except insofar as they might draw my attention to recordings of which I hitherto hadn't been aware. (Of course, this attitude doesn't stop me from telling other people what recordings I like and what recordings they should hear. But to do so here would be merely to compile a list of several dozen recordings I've listened to and enjoyed at one time or another.)
I've cquired or heard virtually all the recordings in Dave's talk, and more besides. Some of them sing to me more than others; but what does it matter, Reader, if I love a particular recording that you loathe, or vice versa?
So, in lieu of a comprehensive essay, some random observations:
Everyone always discusses the cymbal etc, or lack thereof, in the 2nd movement climax, but I never hear or read any discussion of what to me is the most marvelous moment in this movement: the entry of the solo flute in the first repeat of the second melody, playing behind (i.e., trailing) the theme played by the orchestra, yet floating weightlessly above the orchestra. The construction here is sheer genius; this single flute bears an immense emotional weight. If only some recordings captured the sound as clearly as Bruckner imagined it.
Like Dave and many others who discovered this work as impecunious students in the LP era, I first heard the 7th via the Rosbaud's Turnabout LP, where despite dodgy sound one could hear that this was a great performance of a magnificent work. Today, that recording sounds even more magnificent in this CD incarnation: www.zyxmusic.com/Music/Classical/Symphonies/Symphonie-Nr.-7-5642.html
My once-in-a-lifetime performance:
th-cam.com/video/VuMef33J6aA/w-d-xo.html What was I doing that day that was so important that I couldn't be at Suntory Hall, Tokyo, on September 17, 18=986? (The audio from this performance is released on CD on the Altus label, if you can find it.)
My other once-in-a-lifetime performance: www.amazon.com/Bruckner-Altomonte-Orchester-St-Florian/dp/B07LDNGMBJ/ref=sr_1_6
You had to be there. th-cam.com/video/DE0rZ6HWZtI/w-d-xo.html
~ John Drexel
Bruckner's 7th is the only piece of music I have ever heard that actually *frightens* me. Sublimely beautiful, I have to hear it, but half dread the experience. It's like he is letting us see into an eternity that contains something consoling and disturbing at the same time.
OMG! how could you forget mentioning Blomstedt and the Staatskapelle, it belongs to the best, it has all you need to know about the 7th, and has everyting you pointed out, the orchestra is fabulous, the spirituality, the fluidity. The recording is clear and crisp. I think he made 2 recordings, for Querstand (with the Gewandhaus, which is slightly less great than the Staatskapelle and on Denon). How could you forget it??!!
I didn't forget it. I find it relatively dull, uninspired, underplayed and shallowly recorded. Wholly unnecessary.
@@DavesClassicalGuide other ears, other taste 😉
@@DavesClassicalGuide but agree on the Jochum, it has a burning intensity
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree Blomstedt is rather underplayed, but along with the Karajan/BPO on DG it is one of the versions I imprinted on back in the day. Nowadays I find Blomstedt's Bruckner underplayed in general and somewhat prosaic.
Gerard, the Blomstedt is my favorite reading, as well.
Thanks!
Thank you!
Interesting to here your opinion (negative) on Karajan EMI 1971 version and read the positive comments here. The reason I bring it up is because it’s Esoterics choice for their very expensive remastering. I have only heard the esoteric version and the sound as on all Esoteric SACD remastered version is excellent.
See if it's still missing 4 bars in the finale's second subject.
I'm interested to hear the Ormandy, but it appears to be out of print and not on TH-cam. Anyone know if this recording is public domain somewhere or available on independent label?
A terrific watch with great choices. I like the Tintner but the tempi never feel quite right to me. Never been a Karajan-lover but his BPO recording is probably my favourite of this symphony.
Been enjoying your Bruckner programs. He is a composer I still have a problem with. Do you know the Asahina recordings. He was very famous for his Bruckner.
And very boring...a minor cult figure, and nothing more.
The first movement of the 7th symphony is not a "slow movement". The original Gutmann Edition (1885) has metronome markings from Bruckner.
A: half note = 58, B: quarter note = 108, C: quarter note = 96
Klemperer complies with these proportions, as well as Harnoncourt/Wiener Philharmoniker, when Jochum and many other conductors do choose the exact opposite.
Of course it's not a slow movement, but that's how it comes across because of its undramatic, mostly lyrical character and block-like construction.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I am always quite puzzled when I read the words "block-like construction" concerning Bruckner's symphonies, because one could understand that these blocks are separate musical events without connection. On the contrary, these blocks are linked, Bruckner having the strongest sense of large scale continuity amongst all composers, on the contrary of Mahler who often (intentionally) composed scattered music.
@@Tracotel Why must you compare one to the other? You were making a point and then went off the rails with silliness. The fact that Bruckner's "blocks" are connected doesn't make them less block-like. I agree that Bruckner has a powerful sense of large-scale continuity, but then so do most symphonic composers, Mahler included. They simply realize it using different means. Buckner's technique is obviously block-like, or modular, or whatever you want to call it, and deliberately so. This does not imply any issues with continuity.
@@DavesClassicalGuide To be honnest, Mahler never composed symphonies. ;-)
@@DavesClassicalGuide Bruckner's sense of continuity directly results from his harmonic language, one of his greatest characteristics being the ability for building-up in tension large scale progressions, a unique sense of inevitability which is not to be found anywhere else...
I recently came across a Radio Frankfurt Symphony performance of the 7th on TH-cam (Cristoph Eschenbach). Do you know if there's a CD of that performance available?
Wow - I just searched for the Jochum/Staatskapelle on iTunes, and found you can buy all nine symphonies for $9.99 ! I already have 4&9 and 5&6, but maybe I will bite. Of the 7th, I already have Chailly, Eichhorn, Karajan VPO, Karajan BPO, Furtwangler, Skrowaczewski and Tintner.
UPDATE - Just read a glowing review (on Music Web International) of a new B7 from Haitink and the VPO (on the VPO's house label), recorded live at the 2019 Salzburg Festival.I'm curious; would like to get your thoughts on this and how it compares to Haitink's other accounts.
It’s kind of you to ask but unless they send it to me I have no plane to hear it. There’s already way too much Haitink Bruckner around, and I’ve got so many more interesting things to listen to.
Great picks. Yep, Jochum/Dresden. Speaking of the added percussion in the slow movement: th-cam.com/video/U9s2JSQ-pWo/w-d-xo.html
There is a Jochum/ Statskappelle Dresden box of all Bruckner 9 Symphonies on sale now very inexpensively that was released by Warner in 2020 I believe. It says that these were recorded between 1975 - 1980. The version you show of Bruckner 3/7 by Jochum is hard to find. Do you know if these recordings are in this box set?
Yes, they are.
Thanks! I;m working on my 300 - 350 purchased disks per your recommendations. I think you are keeping an industry afloat. @@DavesClassicalGuide
Somebody mentioned Böhm. How I love that 1943 Vienna performance!
he is often underrated. as is Sawallish, unfortunatelly...
I’ll check out the Tinter, he’s a truly fine Bruckner conductor. His 2nd for Naxos is the best I’ve heard with the possible exception of Jochum. The death section of Tinter’s Wikipedia page does not make for happy reading.
Alex Madorsky His Bruckner 6th is very enjoyable as well. Also on Naxos....
Edwin Belete thanks for the info! I’ll give it a listen.
Love the Karajan (Vienna)!
Don't we all!?
Nice ism "You are all Bruckner people" . I love it
Very good list. Agree Jochum is fabulous, but this is a symphony that defies any single 'best" performance. I would add 1. Dohnanyi -- a captivating, naturally-flowing interpretation with stellar playing by the Cleveland Orchestra recorded in excellent sound; 2. Bohm - a beautiful rendition with the Vienna Philharmonic displaying their natural (i.e. not Karajan-imposed) playing style; and 3. Walter -- perhaps a bit stylistically dated, but his swift and flowing approach works wonderfully in the adagio , where he plays the great climax as a single sweeping arc, with no percussion distracting from the euphonious brass playing.
All great choices too. Sometimes it seems like we might as well take the whole bunch, toss them down the stairs, and just talk about whichever ones make it to the bottom. There's too much good stuff out there.
Interesting that Bruno Walter wasnt mentioned....I have that recording and quite attached to it....😂
That's because it's not among the best. You can be attached to whatever pleases you, and if it makes you happy, then that's great.
whp says is not among the best? Dave Hurwitz? Yes it is. His first movement is the most poetic performance ever and although he may not have the urgency in the last movement as other dynamic conductors Walter still has a sweetness and effortless purity to the cantabile line that many conductors just cannot obtain. Ormandy??? Great Bruckner conductor?? Since when? That is a laugh and utter favoritism. The man just plods along with no sensitivity to the cantabile line and The Philadelphia strings just are slick sounding and without mystery. Sorry and I am not the only one who has criticize Ormandy for this insensitivity.
Great video! Regarding Celibidache: I agree about the Munich/EMI performance. The Munich/Sony (recorded in Japan, I think) works a lot better. You mentioned somewhere else that Celibidache in his slow performances could be hit or miss, that small differences in performance could have a big impact on quality. Agreed. BUT Celebidache in Stuttgart (DG) in Bruckner 7 is, I think, as good as Jochum. It is really that good. It's less slow than in Munich (i.e. normal slow rather than eccentically slow). Very special indeed.
Except that the orchestra is lousy.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Fair point! I accept that. But imagine how super it might have been with a great orchestra.
That album you're holding is EMI and not Warner, which is better, EMI or Warner?
EMI is Warner now. Warner bought them years ago.
i love that you differentiate between a bad '[faster' performance and a good one. many thing faster is always less boring. i dont agree
Here’s what I have in my notes about Dresden under Jochum: B+... well executed and a riveting, spontaneous reading by Jochum, but this is Bruckner played as if it were Mahler: tending towards the histrionic, often over the top... the brass often shrill rather than resonant and organ-like.
You have notes?
Yeah, when I’ve decided to listen to many recordings of a piece to find the one I like best, I’ve kept notes on my listening. Is all your criticism in your head?
I write all your recommendations from these videos, and from Classics Today, into the notes so that I get to them at some point.
Well, not ALL of them.
But good criticism is key. There’s no way to narrow it all down without criticism.
I have the original vinyl of that klemperer :)
I really enjoy Karajan and the Vienna Philharmonic. I’ve noticed that many conductor’s last recordings sound quite different from earlier years. Karajan stays very consistent with his interpretations through the years it seems. It’s not overly slow or sappy like he’s trying to drag it out, “because he knows it’s his last hurrah” and other romantic notions. Also, it always sounds like Vienna gave him a little more attention and effort when he conducted them.
Anyone else like Bruno Walter stereo recording of this fabulous work?
I’m coming back here to add an unusual sleeper disc I listened to yesterday: Paul Hindemith with Stuttgart on Hänssler. Hindemith’s baton was much-maligned, but I really think this interpretation is worth a close listen and a fair hearing. It sounds rather, well, Hindemithian, so anyone who likes the composer should like this performance. The band does exactly what Hindemith asks it it to, and some of the odd duck tempo choices work rather well. Is it the best 7th? Of course not! But anyone who loves this symphony should really give it a try.
Yes, it's surprisingly good.
Tintner, Jochum Dresden, Chailly, Giulini, Sinopoli, Wand...but I can't live without my two favs Sevenths: Celibidache with Stuttgart and Munich. Sorry, but Celi with Munich Is absolutelly spiritual for me. A real cathedral of sound.
I think that cathedral has a few too many bats in its belfry.
To be honest, this isn't exactly my favorite Bruckner symphony, mostly because the first movement is so slow, even for Bruckner. I think I prefer Bruckner when he's a bit more human and not just "spiritual". The second movement is wonderful on it's own, but combined with the first one it's just too much slow music at once. By the time the third movement starts, I'm usually already half asleep. Even Jochum's recording with the glorious Staatskapelle doesn't do that much for me. But I really like Gielen's recording, who makes the first movement sound like an Allegro and does a relatively quick Adagio. I will definitely check out von Beinum and Ormandy as well, though.
That's a very fair reaction to the work, I think.
'Nothing in Bruckner is dramatic...'' You're kidding right?
No, I am not.
I think that massive dissonant climax of the Bruckner 9 Adagio is as dramatic as it comes! But depends how you define 'dramatic'.
@@UlfilasNZ Exactly.
I disagree that the completions are valueless. They provide some insight into the direction Bruckner was heading. If I were a conductor I might perform a completion before the actual symphony for demonstration purposes. I definitely would not not play the completions to finish the symphony.
Frankly, to me Celibidache performance is the best
Which one?
@@DavesClassicalGuide the Munich recording...
@@vitorferreira6062 Which one?
@@DavesClassicalGuide EMI clássics 1994...
Love others too... But This One...! Hits me in The right spot.
Don't you think it is too heavy of a bias not even mention Furtwängler in Bruckner? I believe it is just an american vs. european standpoint. If, instead, it is in relation to the Nazi regime, then you shouln't forget that Karajan, Böhm, Jochum, Knappertsbusch, R. Strauss, C. Orff were much more involved (party members, which F. never was) and luckily (for them) never suffered the ban of Furtwängler in certain environments.
Most of those guys were not, in fact, Party members.
@@RModillo You might be right in strict terms. Only Karajan and R. Strauss were party members. And Knappertsbush didn't meet the favours of the regime. But Jochum, Böhm and many others, although not officially party members, expressed strong support and sympathies for the regime, something Furtwängler never did. Furtwängler, evantually, ended up being banned by the allied forces and chased by the Nazis as well. This is why he had to flee to Switzerland. I suggest, if I may, your reading "Settling scores: German Music, Denazification, and the Americans, 1945-1953" by David Monod.
Please. This is my channel, and my perspective, and I don't mention Furtwangler in Bruckner despite his Nazi connections because I think his Bruckner mostly sucks--it uses old editions, is poorly played, and miserably preserved in unauthorized live broadcast recordings. I do not mythologize the man or his work, and call it as I hear it. There is not any reason to bring him up. He is a footnote in the history of Bruckner recordings, especially now, when so many excellent ones are readily available. I did cite F in my overview of Schubert Ninth recordings, because he made an excellent one that I was happy to praise accordingly.
Lucio Demeio Strauss was also not a Party member, I believe. He took a job early on, hoping to clear up some royalty arrangements that were bothersome to him as a professional composer. But he never thought of the regime as much more than a bunch of Hottentots.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Of course this is your channel and your perspective and I understand it very well. But I cannot keep from asking myself how come a conductor hailed by most european critics as the N.1 conductor of all times (together with Toscanini) and certainly among the greatest brucknerians (if not the greatest) receives something like "it sucks" from another musical critic. Of course things are subjective, but to this point ?
Came for the survey, stayed for the comments where you once again take the piss out of Furtwängler fanbois.
Well done.
Jochum's adagio is too slow, too heavy. If you want a better and even more transparent recording with the Staatskapelle Dresden, listen to Blomstedt/DENON: th-cam.com/video/npjpX3_lFzI/w-d-xo.html
I disagree. I find the Blomstedt to be underplayed and rather shallowly recorded, for all that I admire this conductor. Sometimes he could be a bit too "plain Jane" for his own good, and this (alongside the contemporaneous Fourth) was one of those times.
@@DavesClassicalGuide The digital DENON recordings are particularly transparent, clear, natural and well balanced, this recording of Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden makes no exception. I certainly would not say that the Jochum/EMI recordings have this excellent sound quality...
Jochum's Berlin Philharmonic recording either the stereo or the even earlier monaural is far better performed. Far more urgency and integrity in every way. I sold my Dresden set. Could not cotton to it. The DGG is better in every way.
Can't get on with Ormandy in this piece. Balance is terrible, bass is tubby. The strings are there but the brass sounds terrible.
Absolutely agree with you 100%