20v 4AGE Intake upgrades - Trumpets / velocity stacks - dyno tested
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ส.ค. 2021
- Dyno testing custom velocity stacks on 20v 4age
Engine spec in this video:
Blacktop 20v 4age
Mild inlet port and chamber tidy up.
Link ecu
Modified 2-1 section / front pipe
Rest 100% stock - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
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The point of most interest is Toyota knew what they were doing.
It's hard work making gains on something that's good out of the box
Really love the content and the fact that you reply to most of the comments 🤗
Finally some 20v! Having a 20v myself, I cant wait to see where this goes.
My favourite dyno tuning channel by far. Thanks for all your efforts.
Here is an idea, water injection!
Great video, can't wait to see what's next
That looks like a solid 150hp with a beautiful curve. Nice work, man.
what i know 4ag have 145hp
@@kelvinpoon9969 depends on the revision
Awesome 20v content please keep it coming!!!!!
Great content as always man. Keep up the good work!
The amount of research and work you have done is commendable! I love cars yet have had new ones for sooo long, yet was just given a AE82 in immaculate condition. yet where to get a blacktop 4age motor for it without paying 3 times the car value lol... so alas it has a perfectly running 4AC ... maybe better to keep the car completely stock and immaculate.. we shall see..
Love this channel. Regards from Spain
Good work thanks for the content
Really interesting. Keep the 20v content coming plz =)
What else would you like to see? pretty limited what i can do with the car in vid as is my daily hack. But maybe able to do a quick follow up vid testing the exhaust parts, on a guys car that has pon cam's. he lost quite a bit of midrange, I think the pipe should gain it back
@@Garage4age The way you usually test and research mods to find the optimum combination is really good. As you say, I'd also be interested in seeing a blacktop with Pon cams, header, exhaust and intake trumpets after a good tune to see what power it makes and how the torque curve looks. Ultimately it'd be super cool to see the blacktop brought up to the same state of tune as your 16v and then compare the two on a more equal basis. But since I'm not a financial backer I totally understand if that's not feasible haha.
@@Garage4age would love to see this!
it's a pity that we live in different countries, you are damn cool! it would be nice to work with you. there is a huge job behind each video, I bow to you for it! many people do not share their experience, because of the money and time spent, all that is interesting to them is the monetization of their work. you share your work for free. with great respect, greetings from Russia
Thanks!
Niiice bro, loving this channel as always
sounds so good
Awesome! I wish I could have a dyno at home xD
Interesting gains, from just intake and exhaust mods, what was the final length of the new trumpets?
Awsome video mate! I’ll be making a similar video on my Dynapack dyno next week. Its incredible what can be done with minor mods. I’ll be using the GT86 BRZ platform to compare some similar mods
Thanks. sounds interesting, will check it out
All motor is Life :}
Great content.
Awsume content u should get a 3sge altezza and see what na ganse u can get with it as well love the 4age stuff to keep it coming
I've always wondered what these type of intake are called
So it seems to have great effect from less exhaust restrictions and generally a decent improvement from airspeed over air-volume. Wonder if headers with less low-radius bends would do the same for restriction-reduction as less bends in rear-sections tend to. Great video as always
There is probably a little bit in the headers if play with the lengths. the pipe sizes are pretty much right diameter wise on the factory ones. unlike a lot of the aftermarket ones which increase the primary size.
@@Garage4age might be able to use the venturi effect (or bernoulli principle) to get faster port evacuation rather than just doing straight up-sizing the diameter like so many aftermarket solutions do. Basically an inversion of the trumpets of the intake-side
@@Doogleraia Yeah thats kinda the idea behind the pipes i built in previous video. hence why it doesnt work so well when put a little exhaust after them. I added a downsized section out of the port on my latest headers for my 16v engines. But i need to get the good engine back in to find out if its too small or can go even smaller before going any further with it. I know for sure i cant just step up pipe sizes from where im at without loosing a stack of bottom end.
@@Garage4age could possibly do it if you do a port split into two pipes from the oval section, then merge them into one larger pipe THEN the venturi effect part over to the big merging chamber for all the pipes.. but so much work to get the lengths right and basically would require an engine dyno to figure out what lengths are needed for it to work. Possible "simple" solution for more low end, might be to do one of the exhausts with those chambers behind where the pipe exits into a larger area (the name for it escapes me at the moment), or use long X-pipe sections prior to the big chamber to get the venturi effect akin to how carbs pull out fuel, just sucking a vacuum in the other pipe alternating between them.. so there is effectively suction as the valve opens.
So many things that could be tested, but have seen it before that folks do x-pipes on the header-pipes in rally cars to "skirt the rules". Never knew if it really worked or not, but I guess it's in the same uncertainty-category as with roller-barrel throttle ITB's vs traditional butterfly valve ITB's
@@Garage4age We found some power (4-5kw) in the headers. Can't remember the sizes (this was 10 years ago). And another 5kw in a mild cam upgrade, still with stock timing and VVT. I did nowhere near the level of development you've done though.
Bro you should make up some velocity stacks exactly like your design that fits in the oem box,the only other option on the market atm is the very short ones from sq engineering,(which they never have in stock) and I personally do not like the idea of these myself as length is the key like the dyno proves. I always thought of like a billet / metal copy of original rubber ones with a bit of an extention and better bell mouth would be the way to go. If you do decide to make some i would definitely put my name down for a set.
Thinking about making some to sell. just got a couple of issues need to figure out. first one being cost, as the materials and amount to time required to make them isn't cheap. next need to see if can making them in a single piece. As they are are at a length, where the engine harmonics will make them "ring" and vibrate themselves to bits. hence the factory ones being made from rubbery plastic. and one of the reasons i put the silicone joiner on the test items. Yeah those short straight ones are horrible, better off with factory ones
@@Garage4age, Thanks for the reply, i always wondered why Toyota used that rubber/plastic one,s always thought it was for sound and cost reasons but never thought about engine harmonics. very interesting. I have subscribed ,will keep an eye out for your content ,cheers
Nice
Please, Please testing more on the 20V bt ......
Pork and Ferrari have been at this for years and so have the big Bike makers
Pork has tuned for the pulse effect and Ferrari have used twin runner lengths with a butterfly system and the bikes usually go for the top end as most bike engines don't have much torque down low to bother with
Yeah nothing new here. Seems to be lost in the aftermarket car world to a point though. Lots of short runner stuff out there. In saying that, fitment is usually a pretty big issue. Is a bit of a challenge to make something cost effective, that fits, doesn't vibrate itself to bits and also works
@@Garage4age .
For your next tests you should look at the ram air effect.
I know that this will be difficult on a stationary dyno.
You would probably need to rig up three or four good leaf blowers on a switch to come on at the rpm equivalent of road speed.
You would also need to do a poormans wind tunnel test to find where the best pressure point on the vehicle is to place the scoop.
@@anomamos9095 when i researched it awhile back. there is very little pressure to be had, unless going really fast. from memory at 100kph it was under 0.1psi. which is what i almost created with my dyno fan here: th-cam.com/video/FwAXynlP9i4/w-d-xo.html
@@Garage4age interesting attempt 👍
Aerodynamics don’t start to be effective until a vehicle exceeds about sixty kilometres per hour and unless you’re going over 120 a rear wing is mostly just decorative. I don’t know how good your dyno fans are at creating boost pressure but I’m sure they aren’t as good as actual driving above 60kph.
Try making that cone fit in beside the radiator and fit a boost gauge before the throttle and go for a spin and see what you get at the various legal speeds?
I would build a spacer for the plenum, 1" to 2" or so, then make some short trumpets, large diameter as possible, but short, maybe 1.5" long, maybe make a larger inlet for the plenum, 4"+ or just leave the plenum off, short runners supposed to give more top end power, longer, more low eng TQ, maybe put a tiny nitrous kit on it, just enough for charge cooling, inject it in the top of the trumpets, maybe as small as a 20hp shot, but depends on what you are looking for, maybe long runners with a arching elbow to a trumpet, with a opening or butterfly in the elbow, with trumpet, and a means of opening the runner at the elbow , for a short runner when a Dyno determined rpm is reached, if the short runner makes more power, but I think cutting the head, and cams would show more gains,
Have modified the plenum. may make a video of it at some stage. Shorter runners will make less power almost everywhere
@@Garage4age What was the total length of the new trumpets once you cut them down 20mm? Are they bigger diameter than the stock rubber ones? should I cut the rubber ones a bit shorter?
@@Skirk84 the silver section tapers out a bit. so yeh are a bit bigger diameter. they are longer than stock. cant remember the actual length though. dont cut the factory ones down. you could maybe cut and extend them though
I'm just focusing my question on the airbox and plenum. Does the airbox rob-off some power potential? Will removing the airbox alone give more power potential? (All others parts still factory)
Have a look at this vid. is a follow up of this one th-cam.com/video/eH5X5orO21Q/w-d-xo.html removing the lot will make more power. But likely will loose all that power with bonnet shut due to hot air
It's all about getting as much air in and out.
Video plis velocity stack 100mm .
Excelent work
Interesting. Small gains added up makes a big difference. Did any of these mods require re tune?
its running an alpha n tune, so any changes usually require a tidy up. pretty much the % power increase, is how much % more fuel it needed
🚀🚀🚀
Dumb question; would a velocity stack help with a 2 stroke carbed engine? I know doing resonated exhaust proper porting gives you the biggest gains, but what about on the intake side like velocity stacks?
Cant say i've done anything on 2 strokes. but dont see why not. If using reflected wave tuning. the pipe would be half the length as a 4 stroke. since intake event taking place twice in the time of the 4 strokes 1 event.
Do you tune the car between each run? Or this a straight power run from mods alone?
AFR tuned if needed. I usually do a quick pull without the dyno logging the power, before the runs you see in video. to check and fix afr if required and to stabilize the temps
Just like the V8 from GM for the Corvette.
Would you share your redesigned front pipe dimensions so I can fabricate my own?
On a stock blacktop with stock ecu, are there any gains to be had from an adjustable exhaust cam pulley with advancing it's timing?
Haven't tried it myself. but not likely, if so will be very minimal.
Awesome work man. Is this all stock ECU?
Has aftermarket ecu. All my recent vids have a mod list in the description. May get away with these changes on stock ecu since it has some compensation with the map sensor. but would probably be far from ideal afr wise
@@Garage4age Ahh I'm a dummy. I could swear I'd checked recently for that. Cheers
@@misterlith Haha all good, someone would ask for engine spec in pretty much every vid. so started putting in description. the older vids dont have it. esp not my good engine, because secret haha
I did the same with my bz touring but no numbers but my foot was telling me about 5hp extra from running no airbox.
Did you adjust anything in the map? Or did you make these gains with just the physical mod?
Just fixed the afr. no other changes
@@Garage4age I see. Thank you!
Some people in Barbados turn the stock trumpets upside down
Can't believe you didn't do a run with the trumpets bolted on upside down. Purely for the noise of course.
haha. It did have a pretty aggressive bark to it with the new trumpets at high rpm. mic didnt really pick it up so well though
Please can u do an anti reversion chamber in the header to see if there are any benefits?
Or AR cones
Want to put trumpets.inside my silvertop 20v airbox any recommendations
Wish you did some 13b rotary testing as well
I would like to also, but don't have that much money haha.
@@Garage4age I know I heard rotaries are expensive down under , still relatively cheap here in North America , can pick up a 6 port N/A block for under $500-1000 .
There is someone on here doing similar work but he tried with straight trumpets ( no 90 deg bend )
Would that make a difference?
depends how sharp the bend is. if its sharp will start to loose power, long radius wont really lose anything over straight pipe. I used the longest radius i could fit in the airbox, as dont intend to run them open at all. I cant say if im at the point they are too sharp or not. as have only tested the extremes, sharp cast 90 vs long radius. these are somewhere inbetween. much better than factory though. anything straight that fits in airbox is too short.
u means got intake box will more powers?
do we have some real torque readings, that matters a lot as well than power at wheels...
Its a 1.6L, it doesn't make any. but end of the day its just a calculation from power and rpm. if makes more power at specific rpm its also making more torque. Peak torque would be about 155nm @ 5200rpm. to get back to actual engine torque need to add the driveline loss, call it 10% and would be 170nm. The torque curve is correct in the graphs btw,
Next time turn them up instead of down works better that way n put air temp sensors closer to intake stack better reading for stock computer
The real gains come from moving your butterfly and playing with the total length of the system. Trumpet design is about 3 percent at best either way.
Is that torque value correct? 400Nm is like 300 Ft Lbs. That's a hell of a lot for an N/A 4 cylinder.
Its torque at the wheels
Is it your car? How does 12kw gain feel like on the street?
Yeah my daily junker. I haven't driven it on the road with exhaust off.. but with the airbox and exhaust back on, it definitely feels stronger and less asthmatic from 5k onwards. I really wanted those gains from 4k onwards, but yeah little exhaust spoiling the fun
it just need COLD AIR for maximum HP's gain.....
your each airbox setup...is the same place..
the best gains, it has to direct COLD AIR
What's going on the 4afe 16v makes that much horsepower and more torque stock.
you realize its kw at wheels? Highest rating on 4afe i could find is 85kw or 114hp at the engine. on the unrestricted run this made 112kw or 150hp at wheels, if add 10% drive line loss thats 123kw or 165hp at engine
I’m colorblind I can’t tell what had the most power gains combo 😂
This makes me nervous... I've just bought some el cheapo 70mm trumpets for a laugh (MRP or SQ Eng 100mm are the end goal with a proper airbox) but I'm now starting to wonder just how much they'll change the power delivery and torque... Especially mid range.
Yeah you will likely find you are better off with the stock ones than 70's. Even the 100's are too short, but maybe a little better than stock due to being a better shape and getting close to their length.
Well, fitted them today, mid is a little flat but not by much, it feels a lot more lively up top although that could just be placebo. Sounds great! 🤣
@@ryanjess5111 I've got the opposite, I've got 100mm SQ ones with a Pipercross filter and it feels a bit dead up top, I'm about to swap back to the stock intake to compare but I swear it used to pull through the rev range faster and feel better up top.
I think your oem airbox too small for this engine.When you open it,you gain power,but on the street open airbox dont work,because hot engine bay air.If you can,make one carton paper,or so airbox (3-4x volume the oem one) above the engine(just for the dyno) and bend the trumpet in this way.Make a intake from front ventillator to airbox,and done.(system like the sportbikes.)
In the past,ve make a fiberglass or carbon airbox for sportbikes under gas tank,use all place we can,expand the volume of airbox to 2-2,5X from oem..gain 10-15 mid hp,and 8-10 top on the 150-160hp 1 liter engine.try it
Hey. Yeah i was planning on getting another factory box and modifying it. So has more volume and better and bigger feed into it.
I need 4Age 20v twin cam blacktop engine complete with company auto transmission gear and complete wiring any link website or anyone have
Oof, I always have to pause to convert from kW into Ungabunga units.
why is there a dip just before 6000 rpm?
In which graph?
@@Garage4age idk I was tired when I commented that, maybe the graph at 3:30?
@@zac2384 You will find mr toyota spent a bit of time on the intake system to get a nice smooth power curve.(then screwed it up with a crappy ecu controlling it haha) as can been seen in the first graph with the stock intake system. when start messing with lengths of things and in this case taking the factory airbox off, will quite often end up with little peaks and dips here and there. can seen a good example of it when take the factory intake tube off in the 2nd run. a little bump appears. it is likely the little resonator tube on the intake tube used to smooth this out
@@Garage4age appreciate the answer
Whats the rev limit? Put it up i say
8300rpm ish. engine not up to any more. would need upgraded rod bolts at least and probably valve springs.
I respect what you're doing but why go through all this for such tiny amounts of power? Have you ever thought about an LS V8? If you won't have an LS why not try a k series Honda or a gm ecotec. If you payed for shipping and promised to modify the hell out of it I would send you an aluminum 5.3 or ecotec combination for free. I like what you're doing and would enjoy supporting your efforts. I just became the proud owner of a 4 axis CNC and I am all about trying crazy combinations. Let me know how I can help.
Same stuff applys. Remember Its only a 1.6L. If look at the changes as a percentage, then apply that to the bigger engines. On a 6L LS It would be 22kw or 30hp from just changing a couple of bits of pipe, still using factory exhaust and airbox. I know I would probably have a wider audience if used a LS or K series. but kinda the same reason i don't. everyone does them. Thanks for the kind offer though.
Not everyone wants nor likes V8s. Why would anyone go through the hell of trying to LS and RWD swap a Corolla?
@@Garage4age Thanks for the reply. I understand all that and I see where you're coming from. Just the same though, if there's anything I can machine for you that doesn't exist currently I would love to be able to help. I wish there were more people like you modifying LS engines. There's way too much follow the leader in this camp.
@@ryanjess5111 One man's hell is another's good time. Not all LS V8s are rwd and not all corollas are fwd.
to be had the exhaust ruined this test .. i think original custom leanght trumpets need to be retested because it could have been.. hitting the exhaust restriction earlier showing that drop off
Trimmed 20mm would still be best. esp if running the stock airbox which is what they were designed to do. They didn't drop any bottom end over the full length and peak power was a little higher. the total length of the -20mm lines up with the length my 16v engines like. -40mm was def too short
I've never understood WHY people dyno a car with the bonnet open when you drive it with the bonnet closed. How about doing a test showing the differences when you've got an aftermarket pod filter then again when you've got a proper factory airbox? That's bonnet open vs bonnet closed.
Yes, in some cases. but here want to see where the gains/losses are coming from, without the iat's screwing up the results. for example, if i had of shut the bonnet and the iat's skyrocketed up with the open trumpets, it would have made less power than with the airbox on. but then we wouldn't know the airbox is actually a restriction.
@@Garage4age Yes but that's the whole point isn't it?
A dyno is supposed to duplicate road conditions but when testing with the bonnet open to get cold air, it doesn't work the same.
I think you are missing the point. Everyone knows hot air makes less power. I'm not testing that here. I'm testing the intake itself. Changing the air temperature as well would be bad science as since would be changing more than one thing at a time.
@@Garage4age I know what you're saying but it's a new car to the dyno. Don't you think the very first test should be bonnet open vs bonnet closed to give a good baseline. Then repeat with factory airbox vs cone filter or other filter that doesn't get cold air like stock.
Ever consider doing a progressive nitrous system, 30 shot that starts at 10 and goes up?
We all know the results already!
It seems the stock trumpets vs no trumpets didn’t make much of a difference . wonder why they exist lol
I didn't run it with the trumpets removed. only the intake tube removed and the plenum lid removed. would lose a decent amount of power removing trumpets
maybe your first lenght was good but exhaust helld it back
Yeah definitely isn't helping. but going by what my 16v's like, the original was a little long and kinda showed up with the same trend when to long on them. the no exhaust run was done with 40mm cut down. It should have been a touch better on the 20mm cut down. bit bigger bellmouths would help a little too. but mr aliexpress sent the wrong ones
I'd like to see the results if you made a set of dual stack like many motorcycles are doing now- th-cam.com/video/M2iCySQ_P8s/w-d-xo.html
My 20V dyno tested!
th-cam.com/video/7z6jVrqMl2I/w-d-xo.html
nice ae86!
First
wow no gains at all. what a waste of time