20v 4AGE Exhaust megaphone / front pipes - Dyno tested
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- Dyno testing modified 2-1 section / front pipes on 20v 4age
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Engine spec in this video:
Blacktop 20v 4age
Mild inlet port and chamber tidy up.
Link ecu
decat pipe
Rest 100% stock - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Hey, Since Ive been doing these dyno videos. There have been many comments suggesting my dyno reads on the high side, after seeing the numbers my 16v engines make. This video shows Its pretty much on the money. If compare it to what your average blacktop makes on other dyno's. I would expect this one to make mid to high 90's (Kw) on this dyno, if was on stock ecu and didn't have the tweaks to the head.
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If you are at the coast/sea level it’s a little on the low side, unsure of the elevation there mate, I. Any case all dyno’s read differently as long as you use it as a tool like you are to compare apples to apples… great job by the way.
@@hondatrixPerfect !
You should check out David Vizard's channel. He has one on exhaust tuning.
So what are the tweaks to the head and what aftermarket ECU is it running?
Amazing skill. Welding, building engine and running ...
Excited to see the 20v experiments! Would be cool to see a comparison of a basically stock setup to a lightly modded setup (header, exhaust, cams) after a tune. Any chance to see the torque graphs and how VVT influence looks compared to the 16v?
Torque and power numbers basically the same thing. So if its making more power at same rpm its making more torque. So the example th-cam.com/video/24Z3TeMq69E/w-d-xo.html in that graph vs the 16v it makes more torque across the whole rev range. Its not really that much of a fair example though, as the 16v has a whole lot more r&d gone into the bolt ons. but still kinda dissapointed the 20v's dont make more bottom end with the vvt. Ive already filmed the next vid. but have some old graphs with the vvt on/off if you would like to see them. maybe trying the v2 pipe in this vid on a customers car with pon cams also
@@Garage4age Ah I see, thanks for the explanation. I was just curious because 20v's feel quite bad without VVT connected. Whereas my memory of 16v seems like they are better (despite not having VVT at all). Anyway looking forward to the next videos.
@@TheNight-Rider heres an older dyno sheet. red =vvt on. blue = vvt off. green = vvt switching at 6200rpm from memory. garage4ag.files.wordpress.com/2021/08/vvt-on-vs-off.png big loss if vvt isnt working
Well done as always. Appreciate you putting in the time for scientific testing.
When you say exhaust/no exhaust, are you talking about muffler?
Thanks. No exhaust means nothing after the pipes shown. exhaust means the factory system connected from there onwards. which is a short section of 2.25" into a reso, exits the reso in 2" for the rest of the way, with a muffler at the back
Im planning the exhaust system for my xj cherokee, it had a 6-1 header(which had good top end but a bit flat in midrange), 2.5 to the cat and then 3" cat back
My new pipe doesn't exist yet but I have an upper half of a hurricane tri y header with 2" outlets.
Im chasing bulk midrange power up to 4500rpm, is there a guide for how long to make the secondary pipes before merging them?
I still want it to have a 3" pipe, would u jump straight to 3" from the merge or 2.5 merge to cat then 3" back?
Sorry for the questions, I just value your opinion.
Thanks.
Please do : 20v stock exhoust vs 20v 2.25inch and options with/out middle and back mufflers.
Hi, I think you should also do some content on 2zz engine as I think it really a good engine with great potential. Thanks
Love that chill beat in the backround and the 20v breathing
whats the big red bit on your V1/V2 pipes for?
We all seen 4-2-1 exhausts, but what if there was a intake like that? Maybe a equal length intake too
Thats what ITB’s a for
@@dennisgsi3143 what he means, is having the itb's come down to 2 separate pipes instead of 4 or just one.
@@2zztercel558 kinda i was thinking more of having itbs as close to intake but then have a merged collector for them lile the ca18det project had th-cam.com/video/27Ue2_tkHR8/w-d-xo.html
Another alternative would be same style as exhaust on intake just get a sport exhaust manifold, flip it and use as intake.
@@vladkruglov7719 lol, thats a 4-1. Not a 4-2-1
The one in the video may work better than the short runner intake shown, just for the fact that the runners are a decent length. but will be loosing power on the pipe entry. if it even had a small radius on the pipe entry it would work better. only thing he really fixed over a standard intake is the lack of 90 degree turn into the inlet runners. but thats not really much of disadvantage. Also may find the lack of plenum area may make the inlet pipe act as part of the inlet runner. in that case the length of the inlet pipe may do some weird stuff.
💖 missed 4age footage
very well, you are having fun with testing different shape/kind of pipes but on chanal engine masters , they tested same and more like you did and conclusion was: max power gives 4in 1 + some 50-75cm long collector pipe , everything else after reduces power for 6% at least(mufflers, resonators , cats)
Great vid, would love to hear a bit more scientific theory about what your testing. Your megaphone almost looks like a two Stroke expansion pipe too me.
Make a 4-1 header. Primary tubes 48mm for the 1st 18-24cm, step up to 57mm tube with a 1cm overlap to make an Anti-reversion chamber on each tube, 57m tubing should be about 38-42cm long, then step up to 63mm for 10-15cm and into collector, 67mm exhaust or 76mm if you like noise
48mm primaries are way too big. factory size is actually the correct diameter for a 4age. being 38mm od. have tired bigger, gains are about 1-2kw right up at peak power, but big loss down low. edit: the gains in the bigger primary headers was actually from the stepped section not the bigger pipe
@@Garage4age Did your big tube test include anti reversion chambers? We used this spec with great success. Was copied from a Japanese header they used in the JTCC
Just curious, what's wrong with the 20v that you don't want to get near it? Genuinely curious as I drove my 20v swopped AE92 for 6 years without any issues whatsoever
Just an old joke between friends. we have always ran 16v stuff. Blacktop better factory, not so much when start to modify them a lot
Thank you for all the work you go through to make these, I always love them and learn a lot. It's very satisfying to see the real world results. I do have a request: is it possible to add a small running window that shows the details of each run rather than just at the beginning and end? You summarize very well at the end of each run, but I find myself going back and forth to see details, and have to figure out which change was made for it to make sense. Also on this one, I find myself still wanting to know more. The V1 was beautifully made, and I understand the theory (I saw from David Vissard), yet it got scrapped. Were you not able to resolve them rather than scrap it? We move on to the V2, and I couldn't determine the changes or features that made it worthwhile. I'm trying to actively incorporate some your lessons and this one has me a bit stumped. Thanks
The V1 pipe was binned due to vibration issue due to the shape. causing a very annoying buzz/drone in the car. since its a daily driver had to go. I've had similar issues in the past and there isn't a way to stop it, without adding a lot of material or rebuilding. i chose the latter. even though the v2 pipe looks completely different. is of similar "megaphone" design. the v3 pipe in the follow up video has some internal tweaks which works better. This video probably one of the more cluttered ones. I read most of the comments on my videos. so if unclear on anything just ask
Its my 5-6th time watching the vid again and again the one weird thing i noticed maybe because of the weather is the factory 2-1 with stock exhaust dyno before binning the v1 pipe and after binning it the graphs were totally diffrent even at the same setup with everything stock. Im also unsure if the creator noticed that
Can you do dyno test whith 2zzge please 🙏
exhaust gasses do not like non symetrical shapes of pipes, try it to be round
Whats your jam, 16v or 20v? Argue here:
16v bap bap bap
Always had 20v lets goooooo
20v for braggin' rights and "cool" factor
20v all the way ✌🏼
I wish I had a 16v. SOHC life is not too fun lol
love the content as always bud, would be good to see you doing different vids on mods for the 20v like you done with the 16v
share your secrets to a 193kw 20v :)
I've watched alot of these .. seems exhaust variations make the most drastic differences
Why you no take off the covering off the intake.
Yesss... stock airbox..
I'm amazed that you get a 16 valve on stock cams to make more power than a 20v. On my dyno a stock 20 valve makes about 18kw more than a stock Series 3 16 valve. Anyway...thanks for the cool videos.
Yeah, once apply all the stuff 20v has to a 16v, not so much difference.
yeah the boys! Hope you spend lockdown wisely!
Impressive exhaust made.
Maybe I missed something, but is the purpose of that exhaust piece shaped like that ? Reverse-cone-cone ish?
Also those golden turd numbers you post, what is the spec of the engine right there ? Besides stock cams.
Usually get a bit more power with pipes made like that, if get them right. As you can see here, they dont work so well with a small exhaust after them. If i wasn't worried about noise i would just throw a 3" exhaust after the pipes, to simulate what they do with no exhaust connected. The 16v engine has more r&d than this one, so not really a fair comparison. but it has: modified bluetop bigport head, stock bluetop cams, (20v cams are bigger) blacktop throttles with long trumpets, my custom headers and 3" exhaust, 10.3 smallport pistons. So less compression, smaller cams, no vvt. same throttles.
Piece of art 👌
Really love your channel you should get a spare head port it yourself and dyno before/after
check out the making bigport great again series. already done it !
Вы очень рукастый и толковый мужик! Респект вам большой. Здорово,что у вас есть такая возможность творить руками при всех инструментах и оснастке такие вещи наглядно! Спасибо за ваш труд)
Best fuckin channel.
Have you ever done a pull starting at 6000rpm ? To compare to a normal pull and see the difference in power between 6000-7000rpm (air velocity build up on whole rev range vs only opened at 6000)
Doesn't make any difference
@@Garage4age thanks, im asking because ive observed on vtec ant vvtli engines that no matter how high or low you set the engagement point for the high cam, it still take around 300-500rpms for power/velocity to build up. And was wondering about power build up during high rpm sudden full throttle and if it would have the same effect
"air velocity build up on whole rev range vs only opened at 6000"... I mean.... that's just not how that works. The velocity change would take basically no time at all. Like a couple of ms?
Why just 110? An standard 20v is abot 130
numbers are Kw at wheels not Hp. So yeah something around 145whp
Supercharge it
Thanks man 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻🔥
Man i'd love to have a dyno at home!
I wonder how the 4age compares with the 1nzfe vvti
Where in NZ are you based... I am in Upper Kaipara area
More or less watched all your videoes.. not that im into 4age. Well. Yes. But dont own any. Just really enjoying the content
I can't easily get a header for my fwd 4age(16v) in America so I got a stock 20v manifold and down pipe. I had no idea it went down to that small where it goes over the subframe..... I'm gonna have to rethink that exhaust setup...
if you modify it, keep the first 100-200mm after the merge factory size. then use a cone to go bigger after that. the stock 20v headers are better than some of the aftermarket stuff. dont use anything with bigger primarys
@@Garage4age thank you! I really appreciate it!
Is it a Nissan N15? Why do you use a Nissan N15?
This guy, Its an ae101 corolla haha
Awesome channel !
Shape means bugger all when it comes to EX tuning. Tube diameters and lengths matter
Megaphones may have a small bearing on single cyl 4 strokes
Yeah only a small mount to be gained with "megaphone" over a well setup straight pipe. but is there so may as well try grab it, if can deal with the fabrication and testing.
@@Garage4age what you have there to me is NOT a MEGAPHONE, megaphone is a mathematically calculated shape, similar in respect to calcs for 2 stroke expansion chamber, but that orange devise is what you want for the tuned length of multiple pipes to expand the gases into, because they think it is just open to atmosphere, and you get the reflected wave into the piping , but then in your case you can hang extra pipe on the back to a muffler .....so you have nailed the system with a very simple add on canister
@@bobawatsit The red thing is a muffer. Have had poor results with big open chambers. part i was referring to as "megaphone" right terminology or not. was the part before it on the v1 pipe. its the equivalent of a 7deg cone. the v2 pipe is something in between that have had good results with in the past.
@@Garage4age if it works, gotta be a +
Wait... the 4age 20v blacktop only makes 110hp? Same as a 16v?
Numbers are in kw at wheels. but yeah they dont make much more than 16v, its mostly the bolt parts too not the head.
@@Garage4age amazing. For everything I've read on forums they swear 20v makes lots more and 16v can even dream to reach 160
@@LRT604 Yeah they aren't as great as everyone says. put the 20v itb's with the right length runner, some good headers, exhaust and up the compression on 16v, will make just as much power 20v already has this stuff done, thats why makes more stock vs stock.
Am waiting for this one the blacktop.Thanks for that.
Bonito auto !!!
cool new vid...
yeah gonna grab one of them shirts i think
Can you tune my car?
possibly. more details ?
I didn't understood the point of the fabricated pipe at the final. Did it made a diference at all? And also, why it has that shape and not just a regular tube with some bends? Love your videos!!! O/
yeah both pipes made about 4% more power with the stock exhaust on. 6% with no exhaust (would make very similar to this with a big exhaust) . It doesn't sound like a lot, but is pretty good for just changing about 1m of pipe on a stock engine. Diverging cone or "megaphone" will help make more power over a straight pipe. these ones are just a weird shape compared to a normal cone. due to space issue, mainly the cross member
This may have been discussed before in other videos, my apologies if it has and that I did not see it, but have you considered buying and then modeling exhaust with Pipemax?
Yeah have been asked this few times. Dunno i'd rather just build stuff and try it.
Favourite car🚗💙💜
Is this similar to a muffler/exhaust system that David Vizard suggest?
Not sure haven't seen it. the v1 pipe is basically a squished flat megaphone. while the v2 pipe more comes from things ive tested over the years that work, and easier to fabricate. i guess it loosely resembles a megaphone, but has some other wizardry going on inside also
Perfect. New movie, New like
I was wondering if you could do a run with spark plugs indexing?
I just filmed a video on spark plugs. totally forgot to try index them, someone had asked about it before. But based on the stuff i did try, you will be able to come to a conclusion if it works or not.. will be out in a few weeks.
Going full nolzy spec with that highviz aye cobba
Cash in hand
From 8:00 master ..
Can u build an anti reversion chamber?
the v2 pipe kinda has one build into it. but may try them on some headers near head sometime
Love 4age
i liked v1 fat torque mid range
Same, pity it had vibration issues
I think my car cylinder head porter had a 20v on the flow bench. I think he said that after porting I the 16v flows more and is better.
sounds about right! 16v can also run a more aggressive cam, due to the larger area for the cam lobes to run on.
@@Garage4age you built an expansion cone that ends in an open chamber? The chamber volume is 800cc +? How did you determine the expansion chamber volume and length? Is this the way to go with a tri-Y header system? My Previa van has a Try-Y header. I built a new secondary collector and then made a tube that leads into the Cat. I am considering remaking the collector and using an open chamber 1200cc volume. The stock header primary are not equal length.
@@benhowe2036 the red part is a straight through muffler, in an attempt dampen the pressure waves at this point. ideally it would be bigger, but lack of room. Have tried open chambers in the past. they did nothing as best, usually negative results.
Why didn't you mess with the 2-1 section aren't they small? And why did you make the front pipe in that shape and size ?
the 2 pipe sizes are fine. I just fixed the poor fitment in the merge. diverging cone after collector will usually give gains if done right over a straight pipe
@@Garage4age there's a part in the 2 1 section which is crimped is this okay “oem”
@@marlo0oty213 yeah that's the part I replaced. I don't think it's as bad as some people say. But definitely power to be had redesigning that whole part as in this video
@@Garage4age im really happy with you replying to all of people questions as of most of us have very little info on somethings. I really wish for you to be a well known youtube channel someday. I have some ideas to make you known and give you more audience if you would like!
@@Garage4agehey i just measured my 4age st back pressure on 2 inch exhaust stock headers with a middle straight resonator and a camry muffler in the end at third gear it was at 7 psi!!!! Should i get 2.25 piping or try my way with another rear muffler
Is that a ae111 or am I wrong 😉😏
Its actually a ae101 bz wagon, is a weird one they kept making them along side the ae111's, so they got a blacktop & 6 speed
@@Garage4age nice😉👌👍
We have those car here in Jamaican like rice grain
Honestly for the 7ps gain? It's much work brother.
5% gain for changing 1m of pipe in exhaust ain't bad.