Always nice to see videos on the good old 4A! I'm currently building 4A-GZE for my AW11 MR2, parts are harder to come by especially in Europe, but MRP has great stuff indeed and I've already bought couple of things from them.
Thanks so much Mike for sharing your knowledge on the 4A-GE! I'd love to know more about building a 20v silvertop or blacktop too! (And 7A-GE etc!) A lot of this knowledge is lost with the forums going down. Thanks for preserving it for the next generation who loves these cars/motors.
The forums are still up though, incl the aussie ae86dc one. The problem is lazy people turning to fb groups (which are more for sharing final results) and asking questions there, with no way to store or archive most of the knowledge. When I point them to forums they go "huh", they literally don't know what a forum is or what it's for, one guy even asked me if forums was a, and I quote "Rome thing" 🤣
@@ToreDL87 rome thing 😂 Was referring to club4ag original forums being lost and not all the site was backed up sadly. Lots of sites are down when hunting for PDFs too nowdays 😢
I absolutely love your naturally aspirated engine builds! Thank you for your help last year with advice for a clutch and flywheel for my AP1 S2000. I have really enjoyed the ACT clutch and flywheel. So nice having an ultra lightweight billet flywheel.
ive got a AE92 coupe which i manual swapped and put a blue top 4AGE from an 86 MR2. i rebuilt the 4AGE before hand, new pistons, bored 82mm, decked with the TRD 0.8mm head gasket, HKS 272 intake and exhaust on adjustable cam pulleys, stand alone ignition (no distributor) and two weber DCOE 40s and straight piped with stainless headers plus a few sort of reliability mods like the MRP timing belt stabilizer and all ARP bolts on the bottom end and the stronger 20v oil pump. it really takes off, i put 91-93 octane (north america) and have the ignition timing up just before knock. great acceleration with no delay!
Thankyou for the information...Im a 4AGE enthusiast from Sabah Malaysia...and this video is a refresh ...I have been playing this engine from the early model till the 20v blacktop
Nice video, lots of great info here. I would like to add that the issue with oil pumps themselves are in the early gen pumps with square edged gears, later pumps (silvertop 20v is considered the better option) are great off the shelf for majority of builds. The problem with breaking gears on the bigports pertains to oil Cavitation. The head only has an oil return in the centre of the head on the exhaust side. Under high rpm and cornering forces, oil tends to get trapped in the head for a little too long which effects the pickup volume at the sump. The smallport engine has addressed this with an additional oil drain from the rear of the head down to the block amongst other efficiency upgrades. The bigport has the provisions for these drain ports to be machined for fittings by a skilled tech.
Crower engine parts are insane. My dad built a 65 stang with crower rods and high nickel boss block that revs to 8k rpm. Hope to build my own engine some day like he did. I’m 30 and making enough money to support myself but not much extra. Hope to someday have a fun car of my own.
Man I loved this video! I owned an AE86 for 4 years (and I want back in one soon) and I love hearing the modern take on 4AGEs! Most of the info online are from 2006 which is probably outdated by now so I really appreciate this advice! If you have a chance I'd love to hear about 7AGE builds too!
Great video. Hard to believe they’re a 40 year old design now! They sound so great, and were and still are a staple at every motorsport event in about any configuration you can imagine, as a 2A-GE for example. I have a soft spot for these (having owing 3 AE82 FX-GT and an AE85 with a 20v back in the day). They’re fragile alright, I’ve run bearings a few times in the bigport motors without the external head drain like the smallport has. Great to see NZ companies and guys like Garage 4age keeping them alive too.
My first car was a Toyota Corolla Twin Cam (series 1) 86kw . Eventually got a bearing knock and I fitted a 100kw import series 3 engine, huge difference and I couldn’t break it 😂. Dave Repsold here in South Africa is a legend with these. Awesome videos man
Elsewhere in these comments, it is said that ""people put these in those 4wd Tercel wagons." That's true, I did it, but it is harder than you think. A 4age block will bolt right to the tercel trans, but there are other problems. The accessories are one..the different head and timing belt cover were a factor. Not too bad, though. The cooling system is a bit weird if your donor car is an mr2 (like mine), especially if using the larger mr2 radiator. The starter ended up being an mr2/Tercel hybrid, out of necessity. The tercel flywheel will not fit the 4ag crank (8 bolts vs 6) and the mr2 ring gear will not go in the tercel trans. I turned down the 4ag flywheel to accept the smaller ring gear. Used part of a bad 4ag crank as a mandrel. You must remove the ring gear from a tercel flywheel intact. They aren't sold separately. Now the mr2 clutch won't fit in the tercel trans. Almost, though. Grind/cut inside of bellhousing, it works. Fortunately, the input shaft splines match the mr2 disc. The tercel clutch cable interferes with the mr2 exhaust (now on the left). Tried many cables, I think the one that worked was from an old accord or prelude. I made a manifold, and ran it on gsxr-1100 carbs. Got them to work beautifully, like EFI. It even got good mileage. However, they are on the small side for a 1600 motor, and despite looking cool, it limited power at high rpm. The ignition used with the carbs was MSD with timing controls, as there was no ECU at this time. I then put the mr2 EFI on it. The manifold didn't fit under the hood...cut & weld that. The tercel fuel pump was engine driven, and low (carb) pressure. So..weld ring into tercel fuel tank and fab bracket for that, to use the stock mr2 pump. Make fuel lines. The throttle body points at the firewall now, requiring some ingenuity to connect it nicely to a large air filter.. The exhaust comes out the wrong side. Making a complete 2 1/4" exhaust for this was actually pretty hard..the unibody had room for a small exhaust only on the right side. The trans input shaft for the Tercel has a thin area, looks weak, but did not break, and I was abusive to it. The trans gear ratios were not well suited to the 4ag..you better rev it to 7500+/- rpm, or ot drops "off the cam" for a moment after an upshot. This made it either sort of slow, or moderately fast if you "whup on it". I estimated than mine may have been 150 hp, maybe. Wiseco pistons, head work, high compression, nice intake/exhaust. Stock cams. This did not make for a real fast car after a LOT of work- almost as a direct result of this, I now have an LS2 in a volvo wagon....I highly recommend this. 400 plus torquey, reliable hp..it's a blast. I think the volvo v8 swap was easier, and I made everything..engine & trans mounts, exhaust, driveshafts, etc. I have seen others who have claimed to do the 4AG tercel thing, but their pics showed only a long block in the car, clearly not running. Please comment if you have, or have seen another one. Definitely not as easy as it first appeared, I was tricked by the in-common "A" family engine. I drove it thousands of miles this way, my main car for a few years. Still have it, haven't run it for 10 yrs. It is red like Jesse Pinkman's of Breaking Bad. Haha maybe it's valuable! It is unique.
I've seen 4A-GEs' of many flavours pushed to the outer limits in the NZ, Australian and South African tuning scene. Those guys swear by the 4A-GE motors. Great to see such a detailed analysis of this motor.
I love this engine I remember when I was a kid at the Long Beach Grand Prix seeing this beauty in a Atlantic car with side draft carbs sounded so sweet
This is great. Oem stuff was good for back in the day builds (club4ag era). These days we have more and better tested stuff to use where old oem parts can take the backseat.
Hey this is an awesome channel and great content! Very happy to view this sort of educational material and I hope to find more information like this. One day I hope to have friends like this IRL.
Thanks for the Tech Info, The 7A-FE Block is 15mm taller and is a great choice for high revving 4A-GE builds and improves "Rod/Stroke ratio", 4A-GE Head bolts directly on the 7A-FE Block
@@Videoswithsoarin the idea was to use a 1ZZ crank in a 7AFE block (bored out to 83mm) with a 4AGE head... but it requires so much machining and stuffing around that it's not worth it and never has been. Re using a 2ZZ, the 2ZZ crank has less throw than a 7A crank, so it's not a valid path to the "mythical 9AGE". Please stop sharing bad information.
did you know these motors used to dominate Formula Atlantic in SCCA? i built quite a few cyl. heads back in the day.....shim over converted to shim under cam....always good vids !!!!!!!
We used to call them flying hand grenades. If anything went wrong there was nothing left. There were a couple of other engines that slowly crept in and eventually took over obviously with SCCA releasing the rules a bit then. Then went back to the one engine rules. This is just what I saw at regional/National level in the southwest division…. And it was quite a few years ago… I tend to get rusty on my thoughts. Like always… enjoy your vids
They were really a shit engine, I felt the BDA was actually better. Then you put that flimsy block as a stressed member in an FA chassis, boom! You had to take them down, change the rod bearings and inspect everything after every weekend, change the crank every 3 weekends, usually by then the main caps were getting beat out of the registers. The Mazda that replaced it was a way better engine, too bad the formula died right after, I loved those cars.
Yes the BDA was a much better piece… I got a couple drives in the Alantic’s back in the 80/90’s. They were explosive!!!. I knew they were a little temperamental on longevity. I don’t remember any production motor being that strong. ( with comparable mods) that was a rich man’s class. I am definitely not arguing that vintage builds compared to today, there is no comparison…. Our sleeves and lighter weight pistons and better quality rods are quantum leaps over that stuff. I still think for what it was it was still impressive.. I know you feel like they were junk. It was a good level at its time. Nothing like today. Have a great evening!
Brother, I am from South Africa and have a few 4A-GE engines, I have one putting out 515HP on a stock crank and stock Series 2 rods and a stock head with no rev kit and is not flowed, only thing we did is stronger pistons that is it, never had any oil pump, crank, bearing and block issues what so ever. I am more that willing to share the build photos and dyno videos, at the moment our best time is 10.83sec on the 1/4mile
Maybe we just got lucky but we ran 270kw in a turbo setup with a KE20 rolla with standard crank and block. The rest was all forged (ceramic coated & shot peened pistons) and head was well worked. Crank never died, tho we never stressed it too hard cept when at the runs which we pulled almost a 10sec pass without slicks (think was a mid 10) .....we got kicked off the track cos we didnt have a tailshaft loop or rollcage. (it was an ae92 red top motor so i guess was 3rd gen ? )
Love Na builds since people rarely do them anymore more. did an all-motor 6g72 with 13:1 compression and 272 cams with an LS intake adapted to the 6g72. With very similar built bottom end and built top end. Just a weird all-motor v6 build. lol
That’s awesome, people tend to overlook the 6g7x series of motor but they put down some impressive numbers I’m in the process of building a 6g75 all motor for my ce lancer
@@svent9238 my 6g72 is using some 6g75 parts and Gm LS parts. Mainly the 6g75 intake plenum adapter that lets you put on a holley efi intake hat from an Ls 😂
The MRP guys from New Zealand are doing just this and building 2-liter versions. I kinda want to build one! I would also swap a Honda K motor for an AE86 hahahaha.
@MotoIQ I can't imagine a 7AFE shortblock is worth more than $250 dollars. This is kind of like a B20 head swap or the VE head swap on an SR. It would be interesting to see a 2.0 A block build with a 20V head. That would be really interesting to see.
When I built my 7A I lucked out and got a Atlantic crankshaft and short course cams that and cp rods and pistons. We made a billet pan with the dry sump and mains all together. We made 228hp sadly it only lived 3 races
@@motoiq tire blew out on the car passing and took out the front end of Carlos's car and the engine snapped at the mid plate and it pinned the throttle open which killed #5 main and rod 4 before shutdown. Owner gave up
if its a 7A block its likely a 7AGE hybrid engine or possibly a 9AGE hybrid. those engines use 4AGE heads and bottom end (9AGE uses 2ZZ bottom end) and 7AFE block.
@@Videoswithsoarin That's what I was referring too, IIRC Tsuchiya runs a 7A block with a 4AGE 20V BT head. Think he mentioned it was better for torque and strength.
Lots of people claim they are weak, but the number of people who've thrown turbos on gzes and made 250-300kw with some injectors and ECU... I don't get the claim of weak.
Folks clicking on the video are typically fans of the engine. And know better than to think its week. Group A and formula Atlantic motors etc Toyota used the engine in a lot of motor sport. They wouldn't have if the engine was week
@@motoiq not sure, but there's plenty parts available for the valvetrain from férrea, catcams, bc racing, supertech, monkeywrenchracing and people has already achieved 220whp on a stock longblock with full bolt ons on fwd setups
In 2006 Toyota was convinced to do a 300 run on engine blocks for the FAT use. You can still get them, if you know who to call...maybe. I'm not debating here however. I'm not a street engine guy. It would also be good to say where those aftermarket cranks mentioned are forged not finished. Good basic info.
@@motoiq I still have brand new trd billet cranks and new numbered head castings on the shelf. As well as ..I think one English and two US made from the early days...billet that is .
In 2021 I found some valve blanks from 15 yrs ago and made some valves, which I called SF or superflow based on the bench numbers. I've been too busy with other businesses and the old company is just idle...the web stuff is gone and that side is now invisible to any searchers..I've sold most of the prototype stuff, very easily. I might have stuff stored but only for really serious guys. When I die my kid will burn it all...
I had 93 4agze with a turbo in an old corolla that was 172kw at the wheels and had the rev limit set to 8200rpm which was so reliable i put 80,000ks on it in the end the end the ring landings cracked due to a bad tune
Wow... I have a lot of years spent enjoying my AW11 with its 4AGE... Though, it certainly was not powerful, it was rev happy and was pure bliss at 6600rpm... It felt like my AW11 was floating on a road of silk. Any chance you could do a similar video for the 3SGE? :)
I wouldn't say the 116 hp was special my friend. Some Honda ZC engines did that in 87', and almost that even earlier on carbs. That's decent specific power, yes. Then there was the original VTEC 1.6. It could do 8 grand and 160hp in 89'. Honda had them beat. However, the 11k ability and sound of the 5 valve 4AG is something amazing that must be respected and recognized.
FYI the 42mm cranks in these engines are good for stupid horsepower, PSI Racing has seen no problems with them going to 600whp. You only need to think about a stronger crank if you want to sustain 10k rpm for long periods or are throwing huge horsepower through the little 1.6. 42mm cranks were taken to 8400 rpm stock (rpm chosen by Toyota with general builds) once balanced they can keep higher. Typically the limiter of the engine is rods, rod bolts, or the sump turning so fast it cavitates or froths the oil. good video with pretty good summarization. A bit on the safe side but good info nonetheless.
You are right, forced induction and lower revs are actually easier on the crank and block until power levels get stupid. I should have said that this video is more NA focused.
@@motoiq Ah, I took the information to generally. As an NA platform it definitely needs the extra strength. The 40mm cranks are definitely not up to the task, they or the rods tend to give out in even mild builds on early bigport engines when aroung that 160whp mark or earlier.
Thanks for making a video on the engine! I'll probably put in some of those parts later on (like the oil pump gears), but for now I think it'll be fine for now until I wanna take it to the next step👍 I always love learning more about these engines!
@@salloroc20 Did some more research, I'll get it for the next time I do something big. My budget is a little slim though, still in school😅, I think I'll be ok for now though for street driving. don't wanna be one of those people who end up blowing the engine in a week :(
Nice video. How bad of a time will I have if using a 3 rib block, ported bigport head, shim under bucket, springs retainers, kelford cams 304 duration, mrp Rods and pistons with the gurdle, gen 3 oil pump from Toyota, full e85, ecumaster classic, silvertop itbs, mrp coil over plug conversion. Just wondering because I wanted to cheap out on the crank/stroker kit which adds a decent amount...
@@motoiq ok, I was a bit worried about the strength of the block and whatnot when revving to 8500 constantly and maybe a 9k run once and a while. The build is for drifting with the occasional Sunday driver
For drifting, I would set it up so it has a soft rev limit to where the hard cut is at 9k but it starts to come in at around 8500-8700, something like timing retard first the more and more cylinders sequentially. Slamming into a hard rev limit is hard on the engine, especially in drifting. This way you can feel the power sag and start to shift or reduce throttle.
For block reinforcement , would you say ARP main ,rod and Head studs a good option , for track use engine. Also at TRD would you see any improvements with oiling with smallport head and drain tube ??
It is not enough. The main caps suck and get beat out of the registers in track use. We used to reinforce the main caps at TRD and they would still get thrashed. I would get the MRP stud girdle for the bottom end. That will probably totally fix the issues. We only ran the big port engines.
awesome video. i love the way a 4age sounds when its wound out and the formula atlantic 4age's are just unreal. would be cool to see you go through a toyota 2rz or 3rz build. i have seen a few with 4 digit power numbers with a stock block and crank. looks to be a solid platform.
Always nice to see videos on the good old 4A! I'm currently building 4A-GZE for my AW11 MR2, parts are harder to come by especially in Europe, but MRP has great stuff indeed and I've already bought couple of things from them.
I was about to type basically this exact comment! Except from NZ
Once I have sorted our my parts I have a couple of intake parts for the 4agze if anyone is interested
Could you please share MRP website .. Thanks a lot
Thanks so much Mike for sharing your knowledge on the 4A-GE! I'd love to know more about building a 20v silvertop or blacktop too! (And 7A-GE etc!)
A lot of this knowledge is lost with the forums going down. Thanks for preserving it for the next generation who loves these cars/motors.
I ran a 20v in my mk 2 Ford Escort panel van 20 years ago and I'm about to restore it. Would love a build video on the 20v too.
The forums are still up though, incl the aussie ae86dc one.
The problem is lazy people turning to fb groups (which are more for sharing final results) and asking questions there, with no way to store or archive most of the knowledge.
When I point them to forums they go "huh", they literally don't know what a forum is or what it's for, one guy even asked me if forums was a, and I quote "Rome thing" 🤣
@@ToreDL87 rome thing 😂
Was referring to club4ag original forums being lost and not all the site was backed up sadly. Lots of sites are down when hunting for PDFs too nowdays 😢
This dude is serious, if I win the lotto, I'm going to him
Better go with the guy at Tec Art who are the responsible of keeping up Keiichi Tsuchiya AE86
Or just buy a 2zz-ge engine and be the same as a built 4age
@@Carlos.Rivera Not better than motoiq
XD 100% In Him
@@juddy953 exactly !!! 190 hp right out the box
Great video. Thankyou.! Loving the MRP plug. They have been leads with the 4A for a good decade now. Absolute legends.
Back in the day I had a Geo Prizim GSI with a 4AGE. I remember putting a on a set of dual Mikuni 44mm carbs on it. Sounded so good!
I absolutely love your naturally aspirated engine builds! Thank you for your help last year with advice for a clutch and flywheel for my AP1 S2000. I have really enjoyed the ACT clutch and flywheel. So nice having an ultra lightweight billet flywheel.
Glad to help!
ive got a AE92 coupe which i manual swapped and put a blue top 4AGE from an 86 MR2. i rebuilt the 4AGE before hand, new pistons, bored 82mm, decked with the TRD 0.8mm head gasket, HKS 272 intake and exhaust on adjustable cam pulleys, stand alone ignition (no distributor) and two weber DCOE 40s and straight piped with stainless headers plus a few sort of reliability mods like the MRP timing belt stabilizer and all ARP bolts on the bottom end and the stronger 20v oil pump. it really takes off, i put 91-93 octane (north america) and have the ignition timing up just before knock. great acceleration with no delay!
Thankyou for the information...Im a 4AGE enthusiast from Sabah Malaysia...and this video is a refresh ...I have been playing this engine from the early model till the 20v blacktop
yeshhhh fellow Malaysian!
The knowledge and experience in these videos humbles me every time, I hope the tuning industry isn’t dead by the time I learn
Nice video, lots of great info here. I would like to add that the issue with oil pumps themselves are in the early gen pumps with square edged gears, later pumps (silvertop 20v is considered the better option) are great off the shelf for majority of builds. The problem with breaking gears on the bigports pertains to oil Cavitation. The head only has an oil return in the centre of the head on the exhaust side. Under high rpm and cornering forces, oil tends to get trapped in the head for a little too long which effects the pickup volume at the sump. The smallport engine has addressed this with an additional oil drain from the rear of the head down to the block amongst other efficiency upgrades. The bigport has the provisions for these drain ports to be machined for fittings by a skilled tech.
We restrict the oil flow to the head down to about 2mm. This lubricates the valvetrain fine but prevents pumping all the oil to the top.
Crower engine parts are insane. My dad built a 65 stang with crower rods and high nickel boss block that revs to 8k rpm. Hope to build my own engine some day like he did. I’m 30 and making enough money to support myself but not much extra. Hope to someday have a fun car of my own.
Man I loved this video! I owned an AE86 for 4 years (and I want back in one soon) and I love hearing the modern take on 4AGEs! Most of the info online are from 2006 which is probably outdated by now so I really appreciate this advice! If you have a chance I'd love to hear about 7AGE builds too!
We want to do a 7AGE video soon. Actually its probably going to be a 9AGE but the info is almost the same.
@@motoiq WHOOOAAA that's going to be even better! I can't wait to see it!
@@motoiq 9AGE🤌
Yes 7AGE that is interesting, 4AGE blocks are getting rare
Great video. Hard to believe they’re a 40 year old design now! They sound so great, and were and still are a staple at every motorsport event in about any configuration you can imagine, as a 2A-GE for example.
I have a soft spot for these (having owing 3 AE82 FX-GT and an AE85 with a 20v back in the day).
They’re fragile alright, I’ve run bearings a few times in the bigport motors without the external head drain like the smallport has.
Great to see NZ companies and guys like Garage 4age keeping them alive too.
It's hard to find core parts now days.
th-cam.com/video/cutqpCTXvD4/w-d-xo.html
The 4AGE 20V blacktop motor was the epitome of the 4AGE series of motors.
I loved my 20V back in the day.
Yup that the one. When that thing breaths at 9000 rpm it makes your spine tingle.
I respect the person building choosing a path, budget, and sticking to it. Maybe could've listened to some things here and there, but its theirs.
My first car was a Toyota Corolla Twin Cam (series 1) 86kw . Eventually got a bearing knock and I fitted a 100kw import series 3 engine, huge difference and I couldn’t break it 😂. Dave Repsold here in South Africa is a legend with these. Awesome videos man
I really appreciate the FX16 call out! Great video and info.
Elsewhere in these comments, it is said that ""people put these in those 4wd Tercel wagons."
That's true, I did it, but it is harder than you think. A 4age block will bolt right to the tercel trans, but there are other problems.
The accessories are one..the different head and timing belt cover were a factor. Not too bad, though.
The cooling system is a bit weird if your donor car is an mr2 (like mine), especially if using the larger mr2 radiator.
The starter ended up being an mr2/Tercel hybrid, out of necessity.
The tercel flywheel will not fit the 4ag crank (8 bolts vs 6) and the mr2 ring gear will not go in the tercel trans. I turned down the 4ag flywheel to accept the smaller ring gear. Used part of a bad 4ag crank as a mandrel. You must remove the ring gear from a tercel flywheel intact. They aren't sold separately.
Now the mr2 clutch won't fit in the tercel trans. Almost, though. Grind/cut inside of bellhousing, it works. Fortunately, the input shaft splines match the mr2 disc.
The tercel clutch cable interferes with the mr2 exhaust (now on the left). Tried many cables, I think the one that worked was from an old accord or prelude.
I made a manifold, and ran it on gsxr-1100 carbs. Got them to work beautifully, like EFI. It even got good mileage. However, they are on the small side for a 1600 motor, and despite looking cool, it limited power at high rpm. The ignition used with the carbs was MSD with timing controls, as there was no ECU at this time.
I then put the mr2 EFI on it. The manifold didn't fit under the hood...cut & weld that.
The tercel fuel pump was engine driven, and low (carb) pressure. So..weld ring into tercel fuel tank and fab bracket for that, to use the stock mr2 pump. Make fuel lines.
The throttle body points at the firewall now, requiring some ingenuity to connect it nicely to a large air filter..
The exhaust comes out the wrong side. Making a complete 2 1/4" exhaust for this was actually pretty hard..the unibody had room for a small exhaust only on the right side.
The trans input shaft for the Tercel has a thin area, looks weak, but did not break, and I was abusive to it.
The trans gear ratios were not well suited to the 4ag..you better rev it to 7500+/- rpm, or ot drops "off the cam" for a moment after an upshot. This made it either sort of slow, or moderately fast if you "whup on it".
I estimated than mine may have been 150 hp, maybe. Wiseco pistons, head work, high compression, nice intake/exhaust. Stock cams.
This did not make for a real fast car after a LOT of work- almost as a direct result of this, I now have an LS2 in a volvo wagon....I highly recommend this. 400 plus torquey, reliable hp..it's a blast. I think the volvo v8 swap was easier, and I made everything..engine & trans mounts, exhaust, driveshafts, etc.
I have seen others who have claimed to do the 4AG tercel thing, but their pics showed only a long block in the car, clearly not running. Please comment if you have, or have seen another one.
Definitely not as easy as it first appeared, I was tricked by the in-common "A" family engine.
I drove it thousands of miles this way, my main car for a few years. Still have it, haven't run it for 10 yrs. It is red like Jesse Pinkman's of Breaking Bad. Haha maybe it's valuable! It is unique.
been buying 4ag parts from MRP for decades, so happy to see them mentioned on vids like these :)
what is MRP?
@@wolfmelonpan5858 Manon Racing Products, 4age parts manufacturer in New Zealand
@@jacksonlin4934 thanks! a bummer they're in NZ, i live in the EU and i'd love to get my hands on a 4AGE or an AE86...
Absolutely LOVE the 4age content! Really love your experience and expertise with these series of engines.
Man, Mike just has an aura that promotes joy and happiness
Even though I feel burns stainless X-Pipes are a tad expensive, this video hits all the right buttons for me. Toyota, nostalgia era, itbs...
i have a ae92 FXGT 1987. FwD but with a 20v blacktop swap. I LOVE a good 4age there quite neat
I've seen 4A-GEs' of many flavours pushed to the outer limits in the NZ, Australian and South African tuning scene. Those guys swear by the 4A-GE motors.
Great to see such a detailed analysis of this motor.
I love this engine I remember when I was a kid at the Long Beach Grand Prix seeing this beauty in a Atlantic car with side draft carbs sounded so sweet
Hey now! Have an AW11 that I’ve bringing back to life with its 4age.
This is great. Oem stuff was good for back in the day builds (club4ag era). These days we have more and better tested stuff to use where old oem parts can take the backseat.
Moto IQ got the best information. You guys should have at least a million subs!!!! Aloha from Hawaii.
Hahaha we wish, the youtube would seems to like stupid car entertainment more than what we do.
Thanks Mike, a friend had a AE101G Corolla BZ touring wagon with a 5th gen, great little engines.👌
Very cool!
Thank you for sharing your knowledge. This is really great stuff and should be archived for future generations to know what a real tuner is.
i build an 7A-GE. Immortal Engine, 7AFE Block with 4AgE head its a must !
I’d love to hear about your time with TRD and working in the Formula Atlantic series and these 4age cars
i am the proud owner of a toyota corolla ae86 1984 Euro edition Levin and i love my car and i have my 4AG 16v turbo
Would love to see a 3sgte video. Love the video, killer information to digest while at work!
Hey this is an awesome channel and great content! Very happy to view this sort of educational material and I hope to find more information like this. One day I hope to have friends like this IRL.
Thanks for the Tech Info,
The 7A-FE Block is 15mm taller and is a great choice for high revving 4A-GE builds and improves "Rod/Stroke ratio", 4A-GE Head bolts directly on the 7A-FE Block
Where did your read this?
MRP has all the parts to do it, its is sort of common knowledge. www.mrpltd.co.nz/product-category/automotive/4age-performance/
@@bajanboyhood it's been on the internet forever... type 7A-GE engine
@@kamperformance5281 there also exists the 9AGE engine using 2ZZ bottom end in 7AGE setup
@@Videoswithsoarin the idea was to use a 1ZZ crank in a 7AFE block (bored out to 83mm) with a 4AGE head... but it requires so much machining and stuffing around that it's not worth it and never has been.
Re using a 2ZZ, the 2ZZ crank has less throw than a 7A crank, so it's not a valid path to the "mythical 9AGE".
Please stop sharing bad information.
Please do a SR20VET break down video like these. Love the indepth analysis.
That is coming eventually. We are gonna do one for Martin's race car.
I felt old when he said "we are going old school with Apex Power FC" lol...that was state the art cutting edge tech back in my day haha
4AG is legendary. Hasselgren made some monsters for Formula Atlantic
Been playing with the 4ag's for 26 years now, such a awesome engine!!
It’d be awesome if he’d talk more about other Toyota 4 cylinder engines.
I’m looking to build a 3ZRFE
I am building a really clean del sol at the moment and would love to see a how to build a Honda d series
This video is absolutely amazing would it be possible to get a full parts list I would love to put one of these together my self
No, sorry
4age is extremely reliable. One of Toyota's best engine. Engine is definitely not weak. Got both 16 valve and 20 valve.
sure if you leave it stock
did you know these motors used to dominate Formula Atlantic in SCCA? i built quite a few cyl. heads back in the day.....shim over converted to shim under cam....always good vids !!!!!!!
280-290 NA 10,000+, 45/48 dcoe's
Well they were the spec homologated motor so they had no choice other than to dominate FA!
We used to call them flying hand grenades. If anything went wrong there was nothing left. There were a couple of other engines that slowly crept in and eventually took over obviously with SCCA releasing the rules a bit then. Then went back to the one engine rules. This is just what I saw at regional/National level in the southwest division…. And it was quite a few years ago… I tend to get rusty on my thoughts. Like always… enjoy your vids
They were really a shit engine, I felt the BDA was actually better. Then you put that flimsy block as a stressed member in an FA chassis, boom! You had to take them down, change the rod bearings and inspect everything after every weekend, change the crank every 3 weekends, usually by then the main caps were getting beat out of the registers. The Mazda that replaced it was a way better engine, too bad the formula died right after, I loved those cars.
Yes the BDA was a much better piece… I got a couple drives in the Alantic’s back in the 80/90’s. They were explosive!!!. I knew they were a little temperamental on longevity. I don’t remember any production motor being that strong. ( with comparable mods) that was a rich man’s class. I am definitely not arguing that vintage builds compared to today, there is no comparison…. Our sleeves and lighter weight pistons and better quality rods are quantum leaps over that stuff. I still think for what it was it was still impressive.. I know you feel like they were junk. It was a good level at its time. Nothing like today. Have a great evening!
Man I'd love to have you build a modest big port for my SCCA race car but I'm almost afraid to ask, bet it's not cheap!
4A-GE engine is the most memorable creation for Toyota.
babe wake up new mike video dropped 💕
Its 2023, and we are still stalking about 4ag.
Long live 4ag!
Mike?! Steve Neill here! Happy to see such a well-educated OG on YT in my recommendations!
would love to see a video on the new 86 engine the fa20d
Brother, I am from South Africa and have a few 4A-GE engines, I have one putting out 515HP on a stock crank and stock Series 2 rods and a stock head with no rev kit and is not flowed, only thing we did is stronger pistons that is it, never had any oil pump, crank, bearing and block issues what so ever. I am more that willing to share the build photos and dyno videos, at the moment our best time is 10.83sec on the 1/4mile
If you run it for more than 10 seconds at a time it won't last very long. Also turbocharging stresses the engine less per hp than NA
@@motoiq It has been holding up for over a year now, so I guess I am lucky lol, I did not mean to argue with you was just saying what mine is doing. 🙂
@@motoiq Also, do you know how they do VVT conversion on the 16V? I have seen it before on @garage4age but cant seem to get ahold of them
How high do you rev it?
Not sure other than running a 20V head. I don't think there is a lash up of OEM parts that would make this simple.
Do an episode on the 20v 4AGE pls...
It's great for the beginner and novice builders. Great for it's generation.
Maybe we just got lucky but we ran 270kw in a turbo setup with a KE20 rolla with standard crank and block. The rest was all forged (ceramic coated & shot peened pistons) and head was well worked. Crank never died, tho we never stressed it too hard cept when at the runs which we pulled almost a 10sec pass without slicks (think was a mid 10) .....we got kicked off the track cos we didnt have a tailshaft loop or rollcage. (it was an ae92 red top motor so i guess was 3rd gen ? )
Turbo is easier on the engine than NA and drag racing is easier on the engine than track days!
Please do how to build a 2uz fe
Love Na builds since people rarely do them anymore more. did an all-motor 6g72 with 13:1 compression and 272 cams with an LS intake adapted to the 6g72. With very similar built bottom end and built top end. Just a weird all-motor v6 build. lol
turbos are cool and all but NA engines have character to them. turbo seems like a cheap and dirty way to make power to me but to each their own
That’s awesome, people tend to overlook the 6g7x series of motor but they put down some impressive numbers
I’m in the process of building a 6g75 all motor for my ce lancer
@@svent9238 my 6g72 is using some 6g75 parts and Gm LS parts. Mainly the 6g75 intake plenum adapter that lets you put on a holley efi intake hat from an Ls 😂
@@svent9238 and bro the 6g72 has a killer bore×stroke ratio for a high rpm na build. 91.5mm bore and 76mm stroke. So a serious oversquare situation.
@@az_3kgt714 I just subscribed to you channel bro, We didn’t get many 3000gt here in aus so will be pretty sweet to see someone build one.
How about using the crank/block from the 7A-FE? The later 5S are better cranks/blocks than any generations of the 3S stuff.
The MRP guys from New Zealand are doing just this and building 2-liter versions. I kinda want to build one! I would also swap a Honda K motor for an AE86 hahahaha.
@MotoIQ I can't imagine a 7AFE shortblock is worth more than $250 dollars. This is kind of like a B20 head swap or the VE head swap on an SR. It would be interesting to see a 2.0 A block build with a 20V head. That would be really interesting to see.
@@cjburn2758 at least up in Canada the 7AFE still came in the late 90s corollas even, definitely a few of them rotting away in junkyards still
@@snoofayy6150 I owned a 1997 Corolla DX with the 7A and a 5 speed. In 1998 came with the new 1.8 1zzfe.
Where is Driving 4 Answers?!
When I built my 7A I lucked out and got a Atlantic crankshaft and short course cams that and cp rods and pistons. We made a billet pan with the dry sump and mains all together. We made 228hp sadly it only lived 3 races
what happed to it?
@@motoiq tire blew out on the car passing and took out the front end of Carlos's car and the engine snapped at the mid plate and it pinned the throttle open which killed #5 main and rod 4 before shutdown. Owner gave up
Wow what a freak accident.
I think if I dig thru the basement I think I can find some pics. If I do I'll send pics to Mike
Awesome, informative video as usual. Wondering how the 7AFE block compares to the 4AGE? I may be wrong but I'm sure Tsuchiya runs a 7A block.
Taller deck, so room for 90mm stroke and a decently long rod for a resonable rod ratio.
if its a 7A block its likely a 7AGE hybrid engine or possibly a 9AGE hybrid. those engines use 4AGE heads and bottom end (9AGE uses 2ZZ bottom end) and 7AFE block.
@@Videoswithsoarin That's what I was referring too, IIRC Tsuchiya runs a 7A block with a 4AGE 20V BT head. Think he mentioned it was better for torque and strength.
Better rod ratio is possible and bigger journal diameters
@@motoiq Awesome, cheers for the further info!
Trying to get the project rolling on my 95 Corolla want to learn and swap it to 7age fwd monster
love this stuff! do a video on 1JZGTE engines!
might hopefully be getting a Prizm GSi eventually, I'll probably leave it stock but if I get the itch, I could do something cool with it
Don't sleep on the 4AG. My AW11 makes 620whp on a 1.6L 16V 4A. Stock crank. Not sure why he's saying they are weak
Lots of people claim they are weak, but the number of people who've thrown turbos on gzes and made 250-300kw with some injectors and ECU... I don't get the claim of weak.
Folks clicking on the video are typically fans of the engine. And know better than to think its week. Group A and formula Atlantic motors etc Toyota used the engine in a lot of motor sport. They wouldn't have if the engine was week
Would be cool to see you talk about the Toyota 3S engine as well.
We just did a couple, we should have done a video!
I said this exact thing last week 👍👍keep on putting 3s requests up bro
Did you recomend to install oil cooler for a 4age red top build
So single 45 degree valve seat is what you would recommend? Not 3 angle?
No I never said that.
Would love to see a video analysis of the MX5 B Series motors!
That is coming but down the road.
Im so glad I found your channel. A true car nerds dream!!!!!🤓
I have a 7afe and 2 Sr5 1986 single carb motors. Anything useful with these
Not really not worth building. You can make good use of the 7AFE block though to make a 1.9 liter long rod engine with a 4AG head.
Any 2ZZ experience? My dream is ITB’s and close to 9k rpm with focus on response and smoothness over outright HP
The trouble with this engine is a lack of development and a lack of decent valvetrain options.
@@motoiq not sure, but there's plenty parts available for the valvetrain from férrea, catcams, bc racing, supertech, monkeywrenchracing and people has already achieved 220whp on a stock longblock with full bolt ons on fwd setups
Solid buckets can be obtained from 1NZ or SZ? engines? they're like twice as light then stock with shim on top
We get them from Supertech
I love how you guys just have knowledge.
@motoiq and Mike, can you do some videos on how to build a 3SGTE?
Sooner or later we will
In 2006 Toyota was convinced to do a 300 run on engine blocks for the FAT use. You can still get them, if you know who to call...maybe. I'm not debating here however. I'm not a street engine guy. It would also be good to say where those aftermarket cranks mentioned are forged not finished. Good basic info.
When I was at TRD when the program was starting, the cranks were billet not forged but who know it must have changed.
@@motoiq I still have brand new trd billet cranks and new numbered head castings on the shelf. As well as ..I think one English and two US made from the early days...billet that is .
In 2021 I found some valve blanks from 15 yrs ago and made some valves, which I called SF or superflow based on the bench numbers. I've been too busy with other businesses and the old company is just idle...the web stuff is gone and that side is now invisible to any searchers..I've sold most of the prototype stuff, very easily. I might have stuff stored but only for really serious guys. When I die my kid will burn it all...
The first ones were made by Scat as I recall.
Do you have a list of stuff you want to sell?
I just watched your LS build video. Great timing Mike and Moto IQ crew!
Glad you liked it!
This video hopefully keep mrp making the crankshafts as they are looking to discontinue them in the future.
I had 93 4agze with a turbo in an old corolla that was 172kw at the wheels and had the rev limit set to 8200rpm which was so reliable i put 80,000ks on it in the end the end the ring landings cracked due to a bad tune
Please do a video like this for 2TGEU!!!!!
Wow... I have a lot of years spent enjoying my AW11 with its 4AGE... Though, it certainly was not powerful, it was rev happy and was pure bliss at 6600rpm... It felt like my AW11 was floating on a road of silk.
Any chance you could do a similar video for the 3SGE? :)
I wouldn't say the 116 hp was special my friend. Some Honda ZC engines did that in 87', and almost that even earlier on carbs. That's decent specific power, yes. Then there was the original VTEC 1.6. It could do 8 grand and 160hp in 89'. Honda had them beat. However, the 11k ability and sound of the 5 valve 4AG is something amazing that must be respected and recognized.
Sushpants and Garage4age have great 4AGE content.
FYI the 42mm cranks in these engines are good for stupid horsepower, PSI Racing has seen no problems with them going to 600whp. You only need to think about a stronger crank if you want to sustain 10k rpm for long periods or are throwing huge horsepower through the little 1.6. 42mm cranks were taken to 8400 rpm stock (rpm chosen by Toyota with general builds) once balanced they can keep higher. Typically the limiter of the engine is rods, rod bolts, or the sump turning so fast it cavitates or froths the oil. good video with pretty good summarization. A bit on the safe side but good info nonetheless.
You are right, forced induction and lower revs are actually easier on the crank and block until power levels get stupid. I should have said that this video is more NA focused.
@@motoiq Ah, I took the information to generally. As an NA platform it definitely needs the extra strength. The 40mm cranks are definitely not up to the task, they or the rods tend to give out in even mild builds on early bigport engines when aroung that 160whp mark or earlier.
Yeah I found that 170 whp and not much more than 8k rpm was the safe limit with the small cranks.
Thanks for making a video on the engine!
I'll probably put in some of those parts later on (like the oil pump gears), but for now I think it'll be fine for now until I wanna take it to the next step👍
I always love learning more about these engines!
The gears are an absolute necessity!
@@salloroc20 Did some more research, I'll get it for the next time I do something big.
My budget is a little slim though, still in school😅, I think I'll be ok for now though for street driving.
don't wanna be one of those people who end up blowing the engine in a week :(
Great video, great information!! Awesome work!! Have you guys ever messed with 7ag builds?
About to build one soon, look for the video.
@@motoiq subscribed my friend, looking forward to it!!
2ZZ-GE gets me a tad more excited.
2zz is definitely the modern 4ag lol
2zz next please
I knows it not popular, but maybe an article or video on the vw 07K? In terms of short comings in the OE and ways to maximize performance
Nice video. How bad of a time will I have if using a 3 rib block, ported bigport head, shim under bucket, springs retainers, kelford cams 304 duration, mrp Rods and pistons with the gurdle, gen 3 oil pump from Toyota, full e85, ecumaster classic, silvertop itbs, mrp coil over plug conversion. Just wondering because I wanted to cheap out on the crank/stroker kit which adds a decent amount...
I actually think that will run pretty good but maybe be a bit soggy on the bottom if its a full weight street car.
@@motoiq ok, I was a bit worried about the strength of the block and whatnot when revving to 8500 constantly and maybe a 9k run once and a while. The build is for drifting with the occasional Sunday driver
For drifting, I would set it up so it has a soft rev limit to where the hard cut is at 9k but it starts to come in at around 8500-8700, something like timing retard first the more and more cylinders sequentially. Slamming into a hard rev limit is hard on the engine, especially in drifting. This way you can feel the power sag and start to shift or reduce throttle.
More 4a/7age content please
Please please please can you guys do a video on the 7age??
We did! It's just not stroked but uses the block and long rods.
When did they build the 4AG-GE engines? I only know about the 4A-GE, 4A-GZE, (4A-GTE), and the 7A-GE.
Technically there is no such thing as a 7A-GE, that is a tuner mashup of different Toyota engines.
Love the 4AG! Save the 16 valve!
Can you give a list of the upgraded parts
The whole video
The links* sorry
Google is your friend
Ok thanks
What ITB are you guys using in this video? Looking for one as well.
MRP
When are you going to do an H22-H23 video I remember you saying you are a Honda guy!
Can we get a parts list?
We do engine build consultation for $150 hour
For block reinforcement , would you say ARP main ,rod and Head studs a good option , for track use engine.
Also at TRD would you see any improvements with oiling with smallport head and drain tube ??
It is not enough. The main caps suck and get beat out of the registers in track use. We used to reinforce the main caps at TRD and they would still get thrashed. I would get the MRP stud girdle for the bottom end. That will probably totally fix the issues. We only ran the big port engines.
awesome video. i love the way a 4age sounds when its wound out and the formula atlantic 4age's are just unreal. would be cool to see you go through a toyota 2rz or 3rz build. i have seen a few with 4 digit power numbers with a stock block and crank. looks to be a solid platform.
That would be cool!