Try Arranging for the concert band by Frank Erickson, it's full of great examples on how you should arrange for each individual group, and how you should blend woodwind, brass and percussion together
5:32 Hey i got to meet John Mackey a month or so ago. Much shorter than I imagined but he would not stop gushing about how good we sounded for a high school band lol
Bret Newton's band orchestration book is such a fantastic resource - I actually got to do some editing/review work on the chapter(s) about writing for horn (french horn). Really great stuff. If you're looking for some incredible orchestration technique, nearly everything by David Maslanka is a masterclass in orchestration technique for band. His use of color, in both thick and thin scoring, is absolutely incredible.
I started using Finale in 2007-2008 when I started training to be a composer. I used it for a number of years until 2016 or so. Then I started using Sibelius and loved it. I loved Sibelius’s export options. I have just started using Dorico literally yesterday. I’m still trying to learn it, but I know it’s worth it.
@@CarlosLalonde Yeah, I already love that you can move groups of notes elsewhere in a measure. That's a pleasant surprise! However, I'm used to using the arrow up and down keys to switch pitches but instead it switches measures or parts. Is there a work-around or a key command combination that could take care of this?
1:13 Eyyy, The University of Arkansas “Wind Ensemble”. I’m going there for college, so I feel represented. Also, that distinction made me feel like finally someone else noticed the difference.
The hard part about orchestrating is that you write on a computer, and you cant tell how it actually sounds in the orchestra you are writing for. It also differs from orchestra to orchestra because some have more of one part and it doesnt balance how you intended for it to when you just hear each instrument at its dynamic marking on your computer. My main point is that it's hard to get each part to specifically play how loud you want it to be if that makes sense. Edit: a great way to learn orchestration through free videos is someone called Ryan Leach on TH-cam.
Somewhat true. The technology is getting SO much better. NotePerformer, for example, has been fantastic in creating a much more real rendition without having to edit a ton (the recordings really sound a lot closer to the real deal).
It IS hard to find good, interesting arrangements for that kind of group. There's some weird prejudice out there that something easy has to be boring. And try to find arrangements where everyone has an interesting part...futile. I taught for 35 years and always had to make my own arrangements according to each student. It's some work but you get great results. I recommend Instrumentation and Orchestration by Blatter. You'll find it very useful and it is a quick read.
My advice to every composer, arranger, orchestrator: talk to the players of the instrument. The books are generally great for mechanical stuff, but they don't say a thing about what the players like to play, and thus will strive to play well. Specific hints for bassoon: • It takes three bassoons to balance a tenor sax, and three tenor saxes to balance a euphonium. You're wasting the bassoonists chops if they have the same part as either of the other two instruments (and you might not be using your saxen to best use either). • Despite their magnificent lower range, bassoons are not bass instruments. Even though the name literally means "large bass". They're tenor or baritone instruments that work well in pairs just by themselves, or playing melodies in thirds below any of the other woodwinds, or even trumpets. Bass clarinet, bari sax, and tuba are all better bass instruments (although they too can do more). • Bassoons blend with _everything_. A bit of klangfarben (colour blending) is good for most instruments, but with bassoon the tone is almost completely lost, although you do get some high harmonics, especially the 17th (5th partial). Unless you really, really need those high harmonics, leave the bassoons out of unison passages. But, do add them to instruments that might be missing. Bassoons make excellent 5th and 6th horns, 4th and 5th clarinets, or alto and bass flutes. You can even switch these voicings around. Two high bassoons with two clarinets playing below makes for an interesting colour. • Bassoons have variable internal intonation. Notes that are good one day can be rotten the next. Every new reed is a forced opportunity to learn a whole new set of adjustments. And to do so, the bassoonists must be able to hear themselves. So … • Never, ever, ever write unison with trombones if the trombones are seated immediately behind the bassoons. The bassoonists will not be able to hear themselves, and the intonation will be an abject failure. • Bassoons have poor regulation. Unlike saxophones, where every note is evenly balanced, bassoons have a very rough volume landscape. Low B (B1) is always honky, and can not be played softer than mf. Low D (D2) is very muted, and might be able to get up to mf on a good day. Every player has their own fingering for tenor Eb (Eb3), as every instrument sounds this note differently. • Bassoonists have versatile thumbs, but they're not magical. Every note below F2 involves one or both thumbs. Very fast stuff with these notes is going to be chaotic and tiring. Talk to a real player who can demonstrate the impossibility of what you might be asking for. • Similarly, most notes above D4 are cross-fingerings. This is fine for lyrical melodies, but asking for busy-work will not give good results. Again, thumbs are used extensively. • Something positive: bassoons are excellent at huge leaps. Even a decent number of them in a row. Alberti bass is just fine. • and finally, ask the players. Even if you're sure you've got it right; ask the players.
You are way more impressed with the Adler book than is warranted. The same goes for Orchestration Online (which is an okay source for someone starting out but, overall, trite). Instrumentation and Orchestration by Alfred Blatter is the clearest and most detailed book on orchestration I've encountered. It's practical and well-written. The ol' standby of Berlioz/Strauss is...well, it is the standby for a reason. All-in-all, I didn't find this a good video for anyone hoping to write effectively for band.
Try Arranging for the concert band by Frank Erickson, it's full of great examples on how you should arrange for each individual group, and how you should blend woodwind, brass and percussion together
5:32 Hey i got to meet John Mackey a month or so ago. Much shorter than I imagined but he would not stop gushing about how good we sounded for a high school band lol
Bret Newton's band orchestration book is such a fantastic resource - I actually got to do some editing/review work on the chapter(s) about writing for horn (french horn). Really great stuff. If you're looking for some incredible orchestration technique, nearly everything by David Maslanka is a masterclass in orchestration technique for band. His use of color, in both thick and thin scoring, is absolutely incredible.
I love David Maslanka's writing too. His voice and artistry is so unique, and its a tragedy that he passed.
I started using Finale in 2007-2008 when I started training to be a composer. I used it for a number of years until 2016 or so. Then I started using Sibelius and loved it. I loved Sibelius’s export options.
I have just started using Dorico literally yesterday. I’m still trying to learn it, but I know it’s worth it.
Dorico Pro is a great program, I think you'll love it! I’m a convert from Sibelius.
@@CarlosLalonde Yeah, I already love that you can move groups of notes elsewhere in a measure. That's a pleasant surprise! However, I'm used to using the arrow up and down keys to switch pitches but instead it switches measures or parts. Is there a work-around or a key command combination that could take care of this?
use Alt + up/down arrow to move pitches !@@CodyWeinmannComposer
trying to write for my unis concert band this summer, this was helpful thanks
1:13 Eyyy, The University of Arkansas “Wind Ensemble”. I’m going there for college, so I feel represented. Also, that distinction made me feel like finally someone else noticed the difference.
The hard part about orchestrating is that you write on a computer, and you cant tell how it actually sounds in the orchestra you are writing for. It also differs from orchestra to orchestra because some have more of one part and it doesnt balance how you intended for it to when you just hear each instrument at its dynamic marking on your computer. My main point is that it's hard to get each part to specifically play how loud you want it to be if that makes sense.
Edit: a great way to learn orchestration through free videos is someone called Ryan Leach on TH-cam.
Somewhat true. The technology is getting SO much better. NotePerformer, for example, has been fantastic in creating a much more real rendition without having to edit a ton (the recordings really sound a lot closer to the real deal).
Thanks for the tips!
No problem!
I am an elementary band director and it is so hard to find music that the kids can play. I just started writing my own because it seems hard to find.
That's understandable. It's really difficult to write effectively for young musicians.
It IS hard to find good, interesting arrangements for that kind of group. There's some weird prejudice out there that something easy has to be boring. And try to find arrangements where everyone has an interesting part...futile. I taught for 35 years and always had to make my own arrangements according to each student. It's some work but you get great results.
I recommend Instrumentation and Orchestration by Blatter. You'll find it very useful and it is a quick read.
My advice to every composer, arranger, orchestrator: talk to the players of the instrument. The books are generally great for mechanical stuff, but they don't say a thing about what the players like to play, and thus will strive to play well.
Specific hints for bassoon:
• It takes three bassoons to balance a tenor sax, and three tenor saxes to balance a euphonium. You're wasting the bassoonists chops if they have the same part as either of the other two instruments (and you might not be using your saxen to best use either).
• Despite their magnificent lower range, bassoons are not bass instruments. Even though the name literally means "large bass". They're tenor or baritone instruments that work well in pairs just by themselves, or playing melodies in thirds below any of the other woodwinds, or even trumpets. Bass clarinet, bari sax, and tuba are all better bass instruments (although they too can do more).
• Bassoons blend with _everything_. A bit of klangfarben (colour blending) is good for most instruments, but with bassoon the tone is almost completely lost, although you do get some high harmonics, especially the 17th (5th partial). Unless you really, really need those high harmonics, leave the bassoons out of unison passages. But, do add them to instruments that might be missing. Bassoons make excellent 5th and 6th horns, 4th and 5th clarinets, or alto and bass flutes. You can even switch these voicings around. Two high bassoons with two clarinets playing below makes for an interesting colour.
• Bassoons have variable internal intonation. Notes that are good one day can be rotten the next. Every new reed is a forced opportunity to learn a whole new set of adjustments. And to do so, the bassoonists must be able to hear themselves. So …
• Never, ever, ever write unison with trombones if the trombones are seated immediately behind the bassoons. The bassoonists will not be able to hear themselves, and the intonation will be an abject failure.
• Bassoons have poor regulation. Unlike saxophones, where every note is evenly balanced, bassoons have a very rough volume landscape. Low B (B1) is always honky, and can not be played softer than mf. Low D (D2) is very muted, and might be able to get up to mf on a good day. Every player has their own fingering for tenor Eb (Eb3), as every instrument sounds this note differently.
• Bassoonists have versatile thumbs, but they're not magical. Every note below F2 involves one or both thumbs. Very fast stuff with these notes is going to be chaotic and tiring. Talk to a real player who can demonstrate the impossibility of what you might be asking for.
• Similarly, most notes above D4 are cross-fingerings. This is fine for lyrical melodies, but asking for busy-work will not give good results. Again, thumbs are used extensively.
• Something positive: bassoons are excellent at huge leaps. Even a decent number of them in a row. Alberti bass is just fine.
• and finally, ask the players. Even if you're sure you've got it right; ask the players.
Wow, thanks for your expert insight!
Thanks very much.
You are way more impressed with the Adler book than is warranted. The same goes for Orchestration Online (which is an okay source for someone starting out but, overall, trite).
Instrumentation and Orchestration by Alfred Blatter is the clearest and most detailed book on orchestration I've encountered. It's practical and well-written. The ol' standby of Berlioz/Strauss is...well, it is the standby for a reason.
All-in-all, I didn't find this a good video for anyone hoping to write effectively for band.
What app do you use when writing pieces?
Dorico Pro 4, I used to be a Sibelius Ultimate user until last year.