another reason for the white powder around your flue pipe could be where your flue pipe goes from single wall to double wall pipe or into transite piping and that change in temp causes condensation and rust.
whole bunch of reasons, if inducer starting to fail and rpm / draft isnt strong enough, partial blockage of flue by wasp nest, gas pressure off, even blower speed to fast or slow and not getting enough heat transfer across heat exchanger. Some things will do it quicker than others. Good comment
Weird. Where I come from, if the unit has a cracked heat exchanger, it gets shut down and the owner can no longer use it until it's fixed. I don't spend any more time "adjusting" gas pressures and fine tuning an UNSAFE appliance.
This video was taken in real time diagnosing it. Hadn't visually verified the Crack yet. So was checking all other things that can effect flame. Also afterwards I did a combustion test etc. Furnace did get shut down and replaced.
Same thing happened to me earlier today. Though they did show me the crack and it definitely was big. Luckily getting a new one installed tomorrow. Space heaters for the night lol.
Yep. The venturi get corroded and I see only one side light up and go out on flame sense etc. Whole bunch of issues. From lack of burning clean. Gas pressure low for years. Propane.
Propane. Had a ton of white powder corrosion everywhere in flue and inducer and burner. Massive corrosion everywhere and propane pressure was around 7 if I remember before turning it up. But was my first time there. Who knows what other things been done to it. I've seen techs purposely turn pressure down due to over heating issues from wrong size unit to duct etc. But there's a point at which if its too rich in fuel it burns black. If low on fuel burns caustic. Black soot is from excessive fuel to air ratio and improper combustion. It'd usually caused by extremely high gas pressure or some kind of lack of combustion air like in a high efficient furnace and something blocks the intake air pipe just enough to let it still operate but screw up cva. Plug a secondary real quick on a high efficiency unit.
Black soot comes from either way too high a gas pressure or lack of combustion air. Too rich of a fuel to Ir ratio creates Black soot. This wasn't Black soot. Was white powder. Caustic burn from a slightly low gas pressure but plenty cva
If you watch the blue flame you'll notice it starts having orange wisps flaring slightly around the blue and back out very lightly. You can see the flame characteristics change. It's not extreme roll out but it's a sign. I dug further and confirmed.
I think I have a cracked heat exchanger causing CO to leak into my house making me sick. I have been calling AC people to look at my unit but they keep trying to sell me a whole new HVAC system. What type of techincian/expertise do I need to be searching for to properly diagnose my issue? I see you had a meter and heard it was reading CO levels. The HVAC guy that came yesterday. Just eyeballed my unit without removing any panels. And instantly said yup it’s broke. I’m not satisfied with this. I had another person come over. He also didn’t have any tools, but opened up the plenum so he could crawl into it and inspect the heat exchanger. He said he saw no rust or cracks. But what if he missed something? Is what I described an accurate why to look for a crack? The 2nd guy said it is safe to use my furnance, but after turning it on, I noticed I began having a headache again. I”m waiting for Amazon to delivery a CO monitor to see what PPM is coming into my house. What is a safe PPM. What is not good? What is dangerous. I borrowed one from a friend and it briefly showed 46ppm.
Shut your furnace off for now. No CO is acceptable. Ask for a picture of the crack. Also there are other ways it can happen. If a major return air leak is back drafting fumes etc. But sounds like you have a crack if you were reading 46ppm. Call a professional and just ask for pictures and to be walked through a explanation. A good tech will do that. Now when you do replace one component it is almost always best to replace the other unless it's very new. When you replace the heater you usually do the a.c too and vice versa. Do you have to no. Not always. Also if you wish to continue using your furnace go to home depot or lowes. Do not wait on Amazon. Or don't use your furnace until your CO detector gets there. Be safe.
It was a small Crack. Later not in the video a combustion analysis was performed and Crack verified. After replacing the unit you could easily see it but it wasn't opened alot yet so flame only had certain changes to it when running but eventually roll out trips.
Yes I do to verify PPM of CO, I also do a CO test in the home, this one only was putting out about 2ppm into the home, very minimal, but Combustion test flue ppm were extremely high and once unit was pulled a crack was verified, small but caught before it became a major issue. 0ppm into the home is acceptable, any amount detected is a shut down.
When we removed it it was cracked. Also did carbon monoxide tests in flue and home. Flue ppm.was in the 1000s and home ppm was over 10ppm and climbing. With flame rollout it was an obvious crack. Also pulled blower and verified before condemning. Can only do so much in one un edited cell phone video.
So you changed the Furnace for have the incorrect orifice sizes? and the CO scare was incorrect. This is why AC Furnace technicians are demonized. You maintained the furnace for years and never realized that it has incorrect nozzles. That was a Natural Gas Furnace running on propane, with the correct Nozzles ( propane ) never installed. And the tech decided to change it as soon as he realized that it was around 15 years old. Despite advocating for regular maintenance to have Furnaces last for 20-30 years.
Lmao. You have no clue what your saying. The unit was converted to propane but was never adjusted to correct gas pressure. Combustion test was performed after adjustments and final checks. When unit was replaced it had a Crack just like I said. Unit is 18 yrs old. Not 15. Also the orange flame is from corroded venturi so you don't get a correct burn. And lastly there are many different propane orifice sizes depending on elevation and yes it had wrong propane orifice but off due to elevation. you have no clue what your saying. Watch the full video. This is just the preliminary diagnostic. Like a said, combustion tests were performed and Co checks to confirm before shut down I checked and adjusted everything to where it should be.
@@CommonSenseFishing209 If a unit has a crack where its letting flue gas into the air handler it wouldn't blow out the flame back into the intake. thats because its drawing in more air than other intakes( thru the crack ) . The flame blow out is consistent with symptoms of a incorrect nozzle / gas pressure or blocked vent.
@smokingsix incorrect!! Lmao. Positive blower pressure is stronger than draft inducer motor. And pushes air into chamber causing flame rollout. If you don't know flame rollout is a huge red flag of a cracked heat exchanger than you don't belong in the trade. Again see the sticker "this valve has been converted to LP"
@@CommonSenseFishing209 Correct, Pressure on the air handler is more than the inducer pressure. However A break in the heat exchanger can either Push air into the ( due to higher pressure ) OR it can pull from the combustion chamber due to syphon effect. It cannot be doing both at the same time. If its siphoning the Flame will *not* roll out, But you get Co into the Air Handler. If you get the higher pressure into the Combustion chamber , You get flame rollout but NO CO into the air handler. It can be one , not both at the same time.
@smokingsix ok bud. Not gonna argue with you. Unit had a Crack. And when units are cold crack is smaller. Once unit runs a while heat expands the crack. Hence it can go from a venturi effect. Not siphon, to a bigger crack.
That dirt pocket is legendary
another reason for the white powder around your flue pipe could be where your flue pipe goes from single wall to double wall pipe or into transite piping and that change in temp causes condensation and rust.
whole bunch of reasons, if inducer starting to fail and rpm / draft isnt strong enough, partial blockage of flue by wasp nest, gas pressure off, even blower speed to fast or slow and not getting enough heat transfer across heat exchanger. Some things will do it quicker than others. Good comment
This is great. ur a cool and knowledgeable dude. I will be replacing my trane xb80 flame rollout sensor and you have helped me a lot. Thanks
Glad I could help
Glad you caught it!!
New unit
wow sam this has to be your most viewed video! Hvac bad@ss and an awesome fisherman
Hey that's the call you turned over at bellows that you changed that run cap on for the blower. This was you handing the football off to me lmao.
Important stuff take notes
Thank you for the learning
turn your flashlight off when demonstrating the flame color out of the burners. Thanks.
I like the work videos!
Orifices were also wrong size
Weird. Where I come from, if the unit has a cracked heat exchanger, it gets shut down and the owner can no longer use it until it's fixed. I don't spend any more time "adjusting" gas pressures and fine tuning an UNSAFE appliance.
This video was taken in real time diagnosing it. Hadn't visually verified the Crack yet. So was checking all other things that can effect flame. Also afterwards I did a combustion test etc. Furnace did get shut down and replaced.
Same thing happened to me earlier today. Though they did show me the crack and it definitely was big. Luckily getting a new one installed tomorrow. Space heaters for the night lol.
Roll-outs are pretty scary stuff. You do not want this to happen while your asleep. Many deaths are caused that way sadly.
What is a roll out?
@@samprakash7197 So that is when the flames start to turn yellow, and then they start to go crazy and they shoot backwards from the heat exchanger.
The carry overs on the burners are bad as well, shouldn’t have all that licking, causing the rollouts to trip
Yep. The venturi get corroded and I see only one side light up and go out on flame sense etc. Whole bunch of issues. From lack of burning clean. Gas pressure low for years. Propane.
Black soot would come from low gas pressure and lack of air.
Propane. Had a ton of white powder corrosion everywhere in flue and inducer and burner. Massive corrosion everywhere and propane pressure was around 7 if I remember before turning it up. But was my first time there. Who knows what other things been done to it. I've seen techs purposely turn pressure down due to over heating issues from wrong size unit to duct etc. But there's a point at which if its too rich in fuel it burns black. If low on fuel burns caustic. Black soot is from excessive fuel to air ratio and improper combustion. It'd usually caused by extremely high gas pressure or some kind of lack of combustion air like in a high efficient furnace and something blocks the intake air pipe just enough to let it still operate but screw up cva. Plug a secondary real quick on a high efficiency unit.
Black soot comes from either way too high a gas pressure or lack of combustion air. Too rich of a fuel to Ir ratio creates Black soot. This wasn't Black soot. Was white powder. Caustic burn from a slightly low gas pressure but plenty cva
Could you please explain what happened to the flame exactly when the blower turned on I didn't see anything change
If you watch the blue flame you'll notice it starts having orange wisps flaring slightly around the blue and back out very lightly. You can see the flame characteristics change. It's not extreme roll out but it's a sign. I dug further and confirmed.
damn you know your shit
Thanks, I try my best
Was that a derp leg inside a furnace cabinet. My God. That's a red tag for sure.
Yep
What is a derp leg?
@samprakash7197 drip leg / sediment trap. Gas is dirty and to prevent gunking up the gas valve it requires a sediment trap before the furnace.
I think I have a cracked heat exchanger causing CO to leak into my house making me sick. I have been calling AC people to look at my unit but they keep trying to sell me a whole new HVAC system.
What type of techincian/expertise do I need to be searching for to properly diagnose my issue? I see you had a meter and heard it was reading CO levels. The HVAC guy that came yesterday. Just eyeballed my unit without removing any panels. And instantly said yup it’s broke.
I’m not satisfied with this. I had another person come over. He also didn’t have any tools, but opened up the plenum so he could crawl into it and inspect the heat exchanger. He said he saw no rust or cracks. But what if he missed something? Is what I described an accurate why to look for a crack?
The 2nd guy said it is safe to use my furnance, but after turning it on, I noticed I began having a headache again. I”m waiting for Amazon to delivery a CO monitor to see what PPM is coming into my house. What is a safe PPM. What is not good? What is dangerous. I borrowed one from a friend and it briefly showed 46ppm.
Shut your furnace off for now. No CO is acceptable. Ask for a picture of the crack. Also there are other ways it can happen. If a major return air leak is back drafting fumes etc. But sounds like you have a crack if you were reading 46ppm. Call a professional and just ask for pictures and to be walked through a explanation. A good tech will do that. Now when you do replace one component it is almost always best to replace the other unless it's very new. When you replace the heater you usually do the a.c too and vice versa. Do you have to no. Not always.
Also if you wish to continue using your furnace go to home depot or lowes. Do not wait on Amazon. Or don't use your furnace until your CO detector gets there. Be safe.
Where are you located?
@@999raiderz I'm in the central valley. This was taken in Santa Cruz.
Anything over 5ppm is considered unsafe
@@nothingface0xx 0ppm is acceptable in the home. 0ppm is acceptable in the supply air. Depends on type of gas fired device for limits in flue.
Can that hurt someone?
yes, but this was caught very early on and the crack had barely any communication. However definitely a save in my book.
10ppm is enough to hospitalize or kill someone with prolonged exposure. It does not take much CO to cause problems.
So here is he crack?
It was a small Crack. Later not in the video a combustion analysis was performed and Crack verified. After replacing the unit you could easily see it but it wasn't opened alot yet so flame only had certain changes to it when running but eventually roll out trips.
sweet
Heck yeah!! Thanks
Do you also do combustion analysis after this?
Yes I do to verify PPM of CO, I also do a CO test in the home, this one only was putting out about 2ppm into the home, very minimal, but Combustion test flue ppm were extremely high and once unit was pulled a crack was verified, small but caught before it became a major issue. 0ppm into the home is acceptable, any amount detected is a shut down.
Where is the proof of a cracked heat exchanger?
When we removed it it was cracked. Also did carbon monoxide tests in flue and home. Flue ppm.was in the 1000s and home ppm was over 10ppm and climbing. With flame rollout it was an obvious crack. Also pulled blower and verified before condemning. Can only do so much in one un edited cell phone video.
Is that drip leg code???
No but was updated when system was replaced.
So you changed the Furnace for have the incorrect orifice sizes? and the CO scare was incorrect. This is why AC Furnace technicians are demonized. You maintained the furnace for years and never realized that it has incorrect nozzles.
That was a Natural Gas Furnace running on propane, with the correct Nozzles ( propane ) never installed. And the tech decided to change it as soon as he realized that it was around 15 years old. Despite advocating for regular maintenance to have Furnaces last for 20-30 years.
Lmao. You have no clue what your saying. The unit was converted to propane but was never adjusted to correct gas pressure. Combustion test was performed after adjustments and final checks. When unit was replaced it had a Crack just like I said. Unit is 18 yrs old. Not 15. Also the orange flame is from corroded venturi so you don't get a correct burn. And lastly there are many different propane orifice sizes depending on elevation and yes it had wrong propane orifice but off due to elevation. you have no clue what your saying. Watch the full video. This is just the preliminary diagnostic. Like a said, combustion tests were performed and Co checks to confirm before shut down I checked and adjusted everything to where it should be.
@@CommonSenseFishing209 If a unit has a crack where its letting flue gas into the air handler it wouldn't blow out the flame back into the intake. thats because its drawing in more air than other intakes( thru the crack ) . The flame blow out is consistent with symptoms of a incorrect nozzle / gas pressure or blocked vent.
@smokingsix incorrect!! Lmao. Positive blower pressure is stronger than draft inducer motor. And pushes air into chamber causing flame rollout. If you don't know flame rollout is a huge red flag of a cracked heat exchanger than you don't belong in the trade. Again see the sticker "this valve has been converted to LP"
@@CommonSenseFishing209 Correct, Pressure on the air handler is more than the inducer pressure. However A break in the heat exchanger can either Push air into the ( due to higher pressure ) OR it can pull from the combustion chamber due to syphon effect. It cannot be doing both at the same time. If its siphoning the Flame will *not* roll out, But you get Co into the Air Handler. If you get the higher pressure into the Combustion chamber , You get flame rollout but NO CO into the air handler. It can be one , not both at the same time.
@smokingsix ok bud. Not gonna argue with you. Unit had a Crack. And when units are cold crack is smaller. Once unit runs a while heat expands the crack. Hence it can go from a venturi effect. Not siphon, to a bigger crack.