What Caused My Heat Exchanger To Fail - Check out these real examples
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ก.ย. 2024
- www.tradesmand...
What causes a heat exhanger in a furnace to crack and fail? Sometimes it is a design issue, sometimes it can be attributed to poor maintenance. Most of the time however, it can be attributed to human error during the installation of your furnace. In this video, MArk Boissoneault from Tradesman Mechanical a Winnipeg based HVAC company shares what causes heat exchangers to fail and shows different heat heat exchangers from diferent models of furnace that have failed and what caused that failure.
www.tradesmand...
Very nice gentleman and a good lesson for all of us. Thank you....
I have a Goodman exchanger, it has a lifetime warranty on it. The furnace is a 98% efficient unit that was installed as a package by a company who is an HVAC / sheet metal contractor. Best tin work I've ever seen. The unit has ran flawlessly for 10 years so far, nothing except the standard maintenance as required.
10 years is ok but nothing to brag about. Lifetime warranty is good if they actually stand behind it.
In my opinion, manufactures should slope the secondary more drastic to avoid water pooling in it.
That would be too easy
100% Agree!
They don't to force you to pay up on a regular basis. Its a scam.
Those carrier and Bryant heat exchangers don't fail from poor maintenance. They fail from horrible design.
same goes for the G20 lennox furnaces, they are absolute junk, too bad he doesn't mention the poor design of the heat exchanger
Its a great design as far as the manufacture is concerned. Why bother marketing your product when you can just force the next sale by selling inferior crap with no alternative.
Yup. Literally replaced mine TODAY because of the poor design caused failure (secondary). Built and replaced the primary, just because we were taking it all apart anyway. 18.5 year old Bryant was still under the original 20 year warranty, thankfully. Covered parts & labor for the secondary and parts for the primary. Oh, and based on paperwork I found from the original owner of this house, this is NOT the first time the secondary HX has been replaced since it was installed.
Thank you! Very informative... Much appreciated!
WOW, this is an eye opening for me. I never thought about this issue Until now..... Thank you for sharing, Sir....
Glad that you found this helpful. Cheers!
Those carrier/ Bryant secondary fail from piss ass design and they plug. Even with good maintenance those heatexchangers are junk.. Thank goodness carrier changed the design.
They did change the design for newer models, but they did NOT change the design for the replacement HXs - they are identical and will fail again for the same reason.
I never liked furnaces with a secondary heat exchanger I was a Trane dealer and I loved the high efficiency one pipe exhaust system basically the most efficient with out a secondary heat exchanger way less problems and cheaper
As a thirty year Hvac mechanic and putting in Carrier for that time this is the problem.your furnace should be pitched 1/4 inch for the draining of water you described.its in the furnace book.also on LP gas secondary heat exchanger doesn’t work well.in my honest opinion it’s a very poor design all the way around.air filter and the wrong duct sizing plays a huge role also.great video to educate
Pretty much I’ve been boiled down to this. Been dealing with a low pressure open error code. Did everything to correct it. Now leaning on a cracked secondary possibly on a Lennox Elite . Lennox has a lifetime warranty on their heat exchangers that I found out. Poor install on the slope possibly
1:30 A pretty similar thing happened to Miele dryers. The filter clogged and heat+mechanical force just absolutely wrecked them
Thanks for pitting this video together. I have a Utica gas fired hot water boiler that is close to 30 years old now. With the exception of having to change out the Honeywell controller (twice) and an aquastat (once) it's been very reliable. I do try to maintain it though unlike an oil burner (that develops a lot of soot) there really isn't a lot that can be done other than to clean out the tubes annually. Do you have any other maintenance suggestions (it burns clean) that I should consider doing?
After 30 years it is obvious you are paying more attention to your Boiler than most would care to do. Other than the quality (mineral content) of the water or glycol in your system a clean burn is of utmost importance and you are watching for that. Keep it up!
Nice to see an excellent vid on this subject.
In your experience, which brands of heat exchanges last the longest & how long is the typical lifespan on a very good heat exchanger?
Thanks in a advance & thanks for an excellent vid!
I wish I could give you a simple answer. Manufacturers in the past and still today are constantly changing designs to meet new efficiency targets. New models take time to prove their durability and by then the next generation comes along. I suggest however a good extended replacement warranty on whatever brand you choose.
🎉😂So they are all built to fail... My repair guy says Heil are good.
@@marygee3981 What an UGLY thing to say, better just hang with your "repair Guy"...
"Heil" (a brand), not "hell."
I was just thinking about putting a little door on all 4 sides of the heat box then you can check ✔️ the heat exchanger very easy why didn't anyone else think of this🤔🤔
Manufacturing costs.
Are a lot of Installers thinking about their previous Installs?
Great information
Thank you
If you were to weld a cracked heat exchanger I suppose it would just crack again?
It'll crack on the weld.
Thank you!
Glad to help. Have a great day!
Thank you.
Those 2001 era Carrier/ Bryant’s, I lick my chops when I see that heat secondary exchanger, flue has test before any maintenance performed.
My Bryant packed it in because the secondary exchanger plugged up with rust, mind you it was installed in 93/ 94 so... I think it did good.
Yup, except most from that era have 20-year warranties, so Carrier/Bryant pays the bulk of the bill. Replaced both primary and secondary on mine TODAY, and my only cost was $500 labor on the primary.
Short cycling kills heat exchangers. They flex every time the furnace cycles. Most of these small cracks cannot be discovered unless the heat exchanger is removed, like in your example.
Explain to us a condenser model difference. thank you.
Manufacturers are moving towards aluminum coils as opposed to copper to be more competitive in the market.
If ever damaged , copper is much easier to repair.
Efficiencies are much the same based on models.
Case design can either help or hinder accessibility for performing maintenance.
Hope this helps.
HX failure seems to be pretty common. I see that most are fabricated from aluminized steel which does rust and is damaged easily from any overheat situation even if temporary. Are there any manufacturers that utilize a Stainless Steel HX?
Yes there are a few, Daikin being one of them. Some manufacturers offer Stainless on select models only so it's important to check. Expect to pay a little more but even with stainless there can be failures.
I have a 1990s carrier 90 plus with a roll out switch issue occasionally. I noticed the exhaust has a very strong smell to it .I am thinking the heat exchanger maybe clogged ?
I have these symptoms and see this is a common failure with carrier products.
Is the order fro. Exhaust a indication ?
Thanks Jpe
That is a common problem with that model. More-so if the furnace is not installed to slope slightly forward. If the secondary is plugged and causing this odour you will not be able to restore it and will likely need a new heat exchanger or go to a new furnace.
Other than poorly maintained burner tubes that fill and corrode over time, if your roll out switch keeps tripping, it is most likely a failed (plugged) secondary heat exchanger. Known issue with many 2000's era Carrier/Bryant furnaces.
How do you find the cracks on the Bryant/Carrier heat exchangers
80% can be found on the dimples(remove the high limit) 90% remove blower and inspected secondary, they also plug up and cause the flame rollout to trip and extremely high CO in exhaust (older 90%s)
Smokeys by DiversiTech are very useful . Open the heat exchanger and you will see the smoke come right out.
Most of the time, the failures with the 2000's era Carrier/Bryant HE furnaces will be the secondary HX, not the primary HX.
Can a heat exchanger with small cracks be welded and be reused?
I suppose it could be done but not really worth it in the long run. Cracks are alnost always found in the same locations relative to each nmodel. Being that this stress point is still a target even after a weld, I would not waste my time unless of course it is a short term patch.
Is that a common place for goodman heat exchanger to fail?
Yes, Most heat exchangers will end up with stress failure in the same location(s) including Goodman. Thanks for following!
Cracked heat exchanger means carbon monoxide is leaking in your house.
A furnace that is burning properly has very little carbon monoxide in the flue gas. It is mostly carbon dioxide and water vapor. It takes poor combustion to develop enough carbon monoxide to be dangerous. This can be caused by not enough combustion air, dirty burners, improper primary air adjustment. Etc.
Not necessarily. First off it is possible to tune many furnaces via combustion analysis to little or no CO production. Secondly, when operating properly there is a negative draft pressure in the heat exchanger so a crack should be drawing air in instead of products of combustion out. Operational conditions can change where CO could leak thru a crack and into the airstream but only if conditions allow. Regardless, cracked heat exchangers should be replaced and the cause of the condition creating the crack or cracks rectified. Most failed heat exchangers were murdered because of a low airflow problem, oversized furnace or over firing a furnace.
Poor installation or followed the instructions and then the mfr changed the instructions(Carrier)?
As a mfr, why not design the required slope into the unit?!
I agree.
You would have to purchase upflows separately , same as horizontal left or right . For sloped design to work . Unfortunately most are designed for multiple applications to save money manufacturing
@@jerrym1070
Thinking out loud here, but any slope designed into the hx would work in any position for a multipoise(Carrier term) unit.
I think most mfrs have a specific downflow unit because they are in need of additional safeties, among other things.
@@jrsmyth9761 if you pitched all tubes on a 1/4" fall for a horizontal left design , if it is flipped to a horizontal right - now pitch is heading away from service side , and pitch wouldn't be helpful at all on up with upflow , with said design for horizontal left , just have to verify furnace has correct fall toward service side on 90+ . No biggie
@@jerrym1070
Pitch, for Carrier specifically because that is what they claim the issue is, is to the FRONT of the furnace.
That pitch should not influence a horizontal application negatively, right?
its metal.
you cant heat and cool it 20,000 times and not expect a result.
not every failure can be tracked down to poor maintenance and design.
all whisper heats fail.
that is a design issue.
all pulse fail, that is a material issue.
yours could have failed due to neither of these reasons.
just my 2 cents.
also those old bryant 90s had an issue with the factory coating on the secondary delaminating.
this is a serious fire hazard as i have seen it burn a house down and nearly burn down several others.
changing your filter wont help that.
😅will not purchase Carrier or Goodman!
Such a shame they design this junk to just barely be good enough verses just making a heat exchanger that doesn't crack. They do this under the perception that this is a very hard thing to achieve when its not even close to that.
"... verses just making a heat exchanger that doesn't crack." If you do not properly maintain your furnace (e.g., cleaning burner tubes, changing the furnace filter regularly, etc.), the HX will eventually develop cracks. You can't get around poor/no PM.
@@bobbybarnes1652 True but assuming the maintenance is performed then this should never be a problem but someone decided the world would be better off with a marketing department that sits right next to the engineering department having them design junk so they don't have to work hard selling new furnaces.
@@petebusch9069 I've worked in automobile manufacturing (HVAC supplier) for 35+ years. We don't design things to fail so that we can sell you a new one. When your products have poor designs, words gets around and folks stop buying your products. That results in fewer sales, not more.
@@bobbybarnes1652 That used to be the case but now that everyone is programmed to accept junk because there is no alternative resulting in everything built as cheaply as possible but will last around as long as the competition. Its all the same junk and anyone not living under a rock knows that. Prove me wrong, build a forced air furnace that will actually last 50 years so I can avoid the install cost every 10 years. I would also like it to be serviceable including a simple way to pop in a new heat exchanger and parts that don't become obsolete in 5 years. As a consumer I'm tired of having to constantly buy new verses servicing a quality product.
100% you installed it not draining