I always just went reference on 156-157 boards. Then I got a 159 and ref was too wide. Edge to edge was sluggish. You just have to play around with your stance and figure it out. Bring a screwdriver with you and adjust your stance every run or so.
Lars, say if I found my stance and its not possible to center it on the binding inserts equally.. Like the distance from the center of the board to the front foot would be longer compared to the back foot... what would be the best option? To move the back foot further outwards/inwards? or the front foot outwrads/inwards? Sorry if I sound confusing... Hard to put into words what I wanna say when English isnt my first language
Don’t think about that distance ever! It’s entirely irrelevant. Only thing: you surely shouldn’t have less distance front foot to the nose than back foot to the tail. Watch my video on 'length'. It explains some design aspects of snowboards that might give you a better understanding. The actual nose and tail can't be counted into the mix when determining binding setback. th-cam.com/video/BNOtFxPhxj4/w-d-xo.html
The nidecker method opened my mind to trying a much more narrow stance and I love it. I go a little wider when i need to really force the tail around in tight situations.
Great tip. I had been riding at the reference stance but decided to measure my knee to foot and saw I could/should be riding a narrower stance. Tried bringing my stance in from 22 to 21 inches and things felt more fluid and a little easier with my feet closer together.
I’ve been snowboarding for 20+ years. I still kick around on a skateboard. I started with a super wide duck footed stance, over the years I have slowly narrowed my stance and changed to double positive stance. I laugh at myself because I am constantly playing with binding angle and lean. Can you believe I have never measured my stance width. I would bet I’m still a bit wide. I’m intrigued to try the nidecker method. I have realized I can access more pop from my boards with a narrower stance but I like the comfort of the wide stance. Yet when I compare to a skateboard stance it is way narrower than what my snowboard stance generally is. Great video thanks you!
Love this comment!! Thanks! Yeah, go take a look! I came to this method in a similar way. I had my stances all sorted and then ran into this. So I went and compared, and I was very close to these recommendations naturally. Have fun experimenting!
First of all, thank you for all of your videos! You have a very practical way of explaining things. I see you standing on the Biru during this video. I was just curious what stance width do you use when you ride it? Also do you ride centered, or are you shifted one direction tip to tail. Thank you for your help!
Great board! It is naturally set back, so mounting centred over the inserts is already a setback stance going off of the effective edge. I move the front binding one insert back - hence, I increase the setback on my Biru. I think its a 54cm width, I might be wrong there. Gotta check again. Great comment!! Thanks!
I actually learned the kneecap to heel when I was first snowboard instructing @ Jay Peak. Now I say to people: "show me a comfortable athletic stance is for you?"
Great info again. Like so many other aspects in snowboarding - it’s not about what’s right or wrong, but more about the outcomes / consequences to different set-up’s and the feeling a you want to feel on your board! 👍🏻
Hi Jeff! 🙂 Nice to see you here! Thanks for the kind words. It's unfortunate that people like right or wrong over individual choice making and dealing with the consequences of that... Doing my best to open those minds! :-)
Thanks for that. I’m gonna go measure my DiVinci stance. Sounds about right. I eyeballed a setup and mounted it and it came out like 20 or 21 inches. I’m 5’11, 31 waist, 164lbs. I ride upright and have a narrow stance, always have. I think my stance on a skateboard and years of skating influenced my preference. I even surf very upright and narrow and all my surfer friends try to tell me I need to bend lower. However I tell them, that in skating, all this squatting low stuff was considered to be garbage style wise, meant you had no natural talent or balance so you had to get down way low to compensate. I still make all the same tricks as they do, but I’m not all squatty and I feel more natural like it’s requiring me less effort and exaggeration to do the exact same maneuvers. I rather just be upright, loose, mobile, and very comfortable. Wide and squatty might look powerful but it looks tiring too. In surfing it’s called a stinkbug stance.
Awesome!! Thank you!! You nailed my intention 100%...... I'm so over all the fashion driven hype nonsense for ultra expensive pro models with slow bases.... I love snowboarding more than anything else... It's my greatest passion. People deserve to at least hear about the physics of it all. And then you can still side slip down a mountain on your favourite graphic topsheet.... But at least the industry should OFFER more real information. Glad you like what I'm doing!! It's people like yourself I started this for. Share the love!
The idea of "too little","just right" & "too much" stability for different activities is a good one. The problems with the Nidecker method are that the middle of your patella (kneecap) is not a precise measurement endpoint. Nor does it take into account any variation in femur (thigh) length. Then adding fixed amounts in cm is not in proportion to the riders actual physique. Total functional leg length is from the top of the greater trochanter (the level of the axis of rotation of the hip joint) to the ground by the ankle (measured in bare feet). A proportion based on that measurement, then adding %s of that to gain greater stability would work for riders of all sizes. Pelvis width is indeed relevant, especially given that there are gender differences in pelvis shape for people of the same height. A method to account for pelvis width and for variation in the angle between the femurs and tibias is as follows. Measure the distance the long axis midline of the feet (roughly between toes 2&3) are apart when the feet are in the position to ride a pair of skis in a straight glide. Knowing whether the rider carries their feet aligned straight forward, or angled apart or towards each other at the toes, is also relevant to the binding angles chosen. Human legs are extraordinarily variable in proportions, shape, and mobility. Michelangelo's Vitruvian man (not woman) is an artist's licence ideal.
@@riotsupercarver7467 I couldn’t agree more. My goal was to bring awareness to the fact that it’s complicated…. And if you want an easy solution - that is still not accurate - the proposed method offers reasons (add width for more stability…). This is also aiming at people in duck stances or mild positive angles. Once you go alpine angles, this changes again, as you demonstrate perfectly in your video. I do believe that there’s an element of personal preference here, too. So really, I want to offer guidance rather than perfect, set in stone solutions. Great comment! Thanks!! 🙏
people have different hip joints so i tell people to try to do a comfortable body weight squat and measure the distance between there feet and see the angles of there feet.
Totally right about the hip joints! Personally, since snowboarding is constant motion, I don't think the squatting in regards to stance width is overly relevant. There are so many other movements you have to make in the legs other than squatting. My comfortable squat is much wider than my riding stance due to my ankle inflexibility. Such a tricky topic!
I have a pretty crazy stance compared to others around my 6'1 height with 25.5in width, ±23°. I'm fairly certain my hip joints are why it's much more comfortable than times I've ridden lower widths and angles.
Thanks for this great info video. Snowboarding for 35 years already but today I learned about the kneecap to heel method. Immediately measured mine and checked my board. I am a double positive and like carving. In the past I have changed and experimented a lot just like you advise. This way I now have my stance almost exactly to the kneecap, heel method without knowing it. I really like the way you explain all the pro’s and con’s and give a lot of very valuable information. I immediately subscribed to your channel. Looking forward to more of your videos. Thanks.
Sorry, I like your style very much, but I did not find this particular video very informative. Of course, maths and stability / flexibility are important, but you can feel that without explanation, calculation or watching anything. At the same time, I see that stance width / angles affect the rider's style, the way your riding looks on video. What I propose, is to broaden this topic and make a statistical survey using video footage. Filming people is the most important thing. Only on video can you see whether your riding is good, and compare your style with other riders that you see in good films. - Long / short / medium board - Camber / rocker - "Euro carving" / jibbing / freeriding - High, low riders Because when you see a good snowboarder (personally I vote for Torstein H!) you often ask such questions as "What's his board length? What's his stance? What's his height & weight? Compared to mine?"
That's interesting. Isn't a statistical analysis more maths and even further away from the individual than this approach, which measures your very own leg?!?! In regards to 'but you can feel that' I'd say that I agree, but the truth is that if you have nothing to compare it to (experience wise), how do you even know what you're feeling/perceiving and what effect that has on your riding? All this is is a guideline for people, who are insecure about their setup, and I think it is a pretty good one. Thanks for the comment!! I appreciate the push back!!
Thank you I have noticed that being in the narrower side of stance width is generally the most comfortable for me, even though I am focused on all mountain freestyle. My hips/pelvis are *narrow* and my knees are unusual as well.
I always bring out my Burton board whenever I try to do experiments on stance width and angles on the mountain. Instead of screwing and unscrewing 8 screws, it saved me a lot of time and effort to only do 4😂
Hi, I'm always changing it. If it's choppy chundery slightly wider helps so i don't lose balance while the pony is bucking me around..Also ive heard changing angles helps prevent knee stress in one location..i don't know..
For me, personaly, as I have very bad flexibility, it's much more difficult to squat the bigger the stance. When I passed to minimum stance (stance minus 5cm - my knee is at 55cm and I ride with 50cm stance) I imediatly increased the riding level a lot as I gained a lot of mobility up/down and fwd/aft and edge to edge. More over, as the feet are conected to the board, I would say that the forward/backwards stability isn't at all diminished... The feet are still pulling/pushing on the board so the platform is practically the same, with a little bit of flex variation, but not much. But the gain in mobility was huge for my very inflexible body. As you said, stance is a very very personal isue.
Sorry, but I cannot agree. In my experience, going wider greatly reduces your lateral mobility, as knees cannot move much, when your feet are strapped. Actually the load on my knees was so hard, that for the first two years, my limit was two days of riding. After that, my knees were giving up and I needed a week or two for them to stop hurting. I've fixed it the third year, by going as narrow as my board allowed me to.
Hi there, I was hoping you had a tip for a problem I've been having with my stance. I can't keep my bindings to stay at 21.5 inches, the screws like to come loose after a day of riding, and then I find myself riding 22 inches with different angles. Lock tite doesn't seems to help at all, I've also tried using skateboard tape as well as the lock tite but that seems to only helps a little more. Any advice to help keep my desired stance locked down would be really appreciated!
to add +2 +4 +6 it's better if they would do that in percentages from your length. One friend is 2 meter, the other 1.65... for the 2 meter guy 2cm is small, for the 1.65 it feels a lot bigger....
I fully agree! I think the good thing here is simply that they emphasize how different styles may require different stance widths. So at least it gets people to experiment and reflect. That's a win! :-)
Absolutely correct. I figured people would all be that smart and simply take this as a bit of a guess/pointer as to how to look at their body. You can tell by feeling your hip bones whether you have a rather wide or rather narrow pelvis, and since this is all not a set in stone method, that kind of guess is all we need to say "i'm probably gonna be on the wider/narrower end of this suggested stance spectrum".... Hope that makes sense!
Very good video as always. However, i believe this knee cap measurement thing cannot be taken as a reference. as you said you can have a bit less and a bit more stance than your knee cap. at some point you even said your stance can be 6 t0-10 cm more than your knee cap measurement. That means someone with a knee cap measurement of 48, can have stance somewhere between 47 to 58 which is a huge gap. If there is a huge gap why do we measure our knee cap? we can simply use the inserts and try
Sorry, I can't write all this up... Just listen to the entire thing again! It's all explained in the video. It's about riding style and finding a starting point based on measurement + riding style. Cheers!
hmmm.... thanks! I just added the link below and also as an end screen in the video so people can click right on it and move over to it. Yeah, I guess you're right, these two can well go together! Thanks again!
Hi Lars, Is it a good idea to buy a 55 stance camber board if I should in theory have a 52 stance? Is it going to change much the way I will bend the board too much? I want to carve on that board
I'm starting to get more knowledge than practice haha. Just moved to the french Alps and bought my gear, I've never used my board yet but I've changed the stance width 3 times lol. Your channel is a real gem to understand the discipline and make thoughtful choices. As future video suggestions, I would be interested to hear your advices regarding boards length as well as board profiles (rocker/camber/flat...) Cheers!
Always set up boards for new people or tell them to measure the knee to floor. Its always pretty close. I prefer 1-2 cm shorter then mine measurements but i run a little close for my length compared to other people.
Great informative info! Ride the nidecker escape 2017 (older model was more freeride all-mountain compared to newer escape models). Enjoy powder, steep and deep terrain having done a season also in Fernie. Natural stance at 50cm and ride 58cm! Thinking to reduce my stance width to perhaps 54 or 56 next season to see the difference
Great video. As an intermediate advanced curious snowboarder I recomend getting a screw driver (not even necessary, you can find them on ski tracks) and trying different widths to feel and find your best. As general rule, too wide, more stability but less mobility, too narrow, you gain mobility but you loose stability and when you go fast the board will try to spin a little in curves. So conclusion, its very easy yo change the width stance youself, try out and find your best one. Cheers from Argentina!
"Natural stance" is 53cm and have been riding it forever with a slight duck stance that i tweak from 0 to minus -9 in the back depending on mood and what hill im on and +15- +18 in front. Today i decided to try 56cm to see what happened and omg my inner thigh/groin just killed me! And i wasnt able to turn my board as i wanted! After an hour and a half i went to my car got my screwdriver and changed to a 54cm width and taadaa, pain was gone and i could manuever my board as i wanted again! Guess im built for a bit narrower stances?
Hey Lars, great video! What I am missing in most (or even all) stance theories is that - with the same stance width measured at center bindings - in duckstance the stance width measured at center of your heels is much narrower than in double posi stance. So apart from riding style that's also why double posi riders often have narrower stance width (measured at center bindings). My question regarding stability: isn't it about the distance between your heels rather than center bindings? Curious what your thoughts are! And hope you understand what I am trying to say here :)
You rock Lars thank you! I used to assume wider was better and rode that way for decades. Last season I decided to narrow it down a bit and am noticing improvements in my ability to spin off jumps as well as carve quicker. Went from 23” to 21” (I’m 5’11 170lb) and might even drop down to 20” to play with.
Yeah, snowboarding is all about fashion, hype and trends! Ten years ago I used to ride 23.5", which now seems insane and ridiculous... But I, too, got caught by the 'wide stance era'.... If tomorrow someone started mounting pigeon toed and got some friends to do it, some brand would probably think that it would be cool to promote that as something insiders do.... ;-) I'm trying to be logical and leave all that stuff out... It can be annoying! :-) And I can be annoying, too! Hahaha... :-)
So when measuring the center of your knees down to your foot. Is the distance between your feet represented by the center of your bindings or the inside edge of your bindings? Not sure if my question is clear enough…
Super interesting! I ride a surfskate and stance width/wheelbase is something that makes a huge difference there too. So I have played around a lot and it took a while to get to what I think is right for me. I didn't know about the "natural stance" measurement, so I just took mine and it's EXACTLY what I ride! If I had known this, it could have saved a lot of holes being drilled in a lot of skateboard decks 😀
I've been thinking about one thing related to width stance for a few days: narrow stance make the board easier to decamber in carves, make stiff board feel softer. Wide stance make board feel stiffer, harder to decamber in carves. And Idk what to do with this🤔
Well.... that's exactly it! So do with it what makes sense to you according to your board choice and riding style :-) Too easy! You understand the theory, now go feel it out on snow! :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel not sure I understand correctly :) If non decamber is better for carving, we should use wide stance, but carvers prefer narrow stance. Wider stances are good in jibbing, buttering and other freestyle stuff.
@@patlatenkiy to 'decamber' a board means to push into the sidecut when the board is tipped onto its edge. This 'push' will technically bend the camber profile into a rocker profile, which is the curve your edge puts onto the snow, which in return determines your turn shape.... The higher the board is tipped on edge, the more you can 'decamber' the board, the tighter your turn is going to be. Hence: it is beneficial for carving to have more weight in the centre of the board, and on stiff boards that can be even more beneficial. Does that make sense??
After doing your measurement method which was approximately 20 1/2”, I’m going to narrow my stance up a 1/2 and give it a go, I currently ride a 21 1/2. When narrowing up a stance, do you recommend splitting the difference between the two when moving, or moving just the back or just the front ? My daily driver is a 160 Burton Hometown Hero which has a 40mm stance setback. My stance would only be narrowed a 1/2” so I think moving both a 1/4” in will give me the stance I want and give me a little more nose and tail
Burton do 'freeride geometry' on the hometown. That places the rider in the centre of the sidecut. Keep it that way by moving both bindings 1/4" inwards. Have fun! :-)
Great vid Lars. Once again. Here’s my concern with stance: stance adjustments other than reference stance, and how to best adjust keeping the camber and flex of the board in mind. For example, I’m narrower than reference of 21.5”(51.6cm). Should I move front binding back, or rear binding forward?
Depends on the board's camber profile and on what you wanna do. I hardly ever move anything further forward. Jeremy Jones says he moves bindings forward for extreme hardpack to get more power into the nose... I haven't played with that approach enough to tell you what I think. I do like having a lot of nose to lean into, hence my take is always 'if in doubt, move back'... Great question!!
Hey Lars, I really like the way you explain things here. I have a kneecap length of 54 cm. The reference stance of my board is 56 cm. From the setup of my board and bindings I only see an option to move in 2cm steps front or back both of which would mean to move out of the boards reference stance. Can you give a suggestion on whether to go with rather the recommended width or or the reference stance of the board. Or am I missing something? Thanks and please keep up making those videos!
Ridereference stance!! 56 for your 54 measurement is likely great - maybe even 58... Matching your actual measurement is pretty narrow for all mountain riding.
Hey Lars, just thought I'd drop you a comment to say thanks. I changed my 30/9 stance to 30/12 and got to try it out over the last few days and I have to say it's been a game changer for me. I was really struggling to get my back knee in properly, which was leaving the tail of the board loose but the extra 3 degrees has made a huge difference!! Thanks again and keep it on the edge!! 👍
I'm curious what your take is on a specific forward lean question. When your front angle is way more aggressive than your back angle, say anywhere between 0 & 9 degrees in the back & 21 to 30 degrees in the front do you keep your forward lean adjustments equal on both bindings? I've found when I do that it feels like when I initiate a heel turn my front binding is pushing more into the edge and the back of my board feels more washy. If I put one click less forward lean on my front binding than my back binding it feels more even. Does this sound right or is it something in my technique I need to fix? Thanks for your time. Love your videos
great vid, thanks. like many here ive been riding for years and never really looked hard at these important details, older now so carving, off piste, few jumps is where im at, just replaced my old Burton Custom with a Capita Navigator, Flow binding so i can get in/out easier, i will definitely try posi stance, last time out i had 0 deg rear, going to dial that up and try 18/3 posi first, 55-56c wide, of to Alps few weeks ,can't wait to try new stance etc
Hi Lars, with that method it would set me one hole behind ref stance of my new board (feet closer than ref). Would it be best to have either the front or back foot one hole behind ref? What difference would it make? Or would it be best to have both feet equally distributed on the board?
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Okay, thanks for the answer! But which foot should move back? The front foot, and the back foot on ref stance? It's a directional board.
@@jnfyeah well….. if ref stance is too wide and you wanna move the rider a tad back while making it narrower, which is the only foot that can achieve that? 😎🧐
Just this weekend I change my stance width for just 2 cm, I have set it shorter. What I noticed is that board became more responsible for turns. At the first turn I did after that change I felt that I needed much less force to make tighter turn (was riding a lot of moguls this weekend :( ). So yes, we should all play with different stance width and angles to find what we like the most and also to adjust to conditions on the slope. Another great video Lars :)
I started using the Nidecker method during last season and it made a big difference for me. I am 193cm (6’4”), so I am getting towards the margins of the height range and other methods were less helpful. I love that the method makes it easy to understand how your stance width affects your riding. Thanks for adding your take to it!
Been researching a lot the past year and your way of explaining makes it all come together. This is so much more valuable than the typical "this board is perfect at all conditions" or " this is the perfect stance" bs you find on most channels 🙃
Good informative video as always! Another important point is that stance width could also depend on stance angles. It's much easier and more comfortable to go a little wider with a duck stance, or a low angle stance, but if you go positive angles, especially if you go a little further with those, not only being wider could be a little less comfortable, but at that point the length and angle of your front foot will add to the total width of your stance, so it's a thing that could be considered when calculating your binding stance width.
Stance setting question: Is stance width set at the distance between the center of the binding's circular plates? Or, is stance width set at the distance between where your heels are in the bindings (because the distance between the binding's circular plates would be different for a duck stance vs. a positive/positive stance). Thanks for your awesome informative videos!
Hi I had a quick question. I feel confident on my stance width now, but to reach the width I’m hoping for I’ll have to move either the front foot forward and leave the back centered or move the back foot backwards and leave the front centered. Do you have a recommendation on which is better or does it matter?
I usually move the front foot back in your situation, but it does depend on the board. On a twin, definitely move the front foot back! On a directional shape it depends a bit on where the inserts are relative to the centre of the sidecut... Longer topic.... Mostly it's better to move the front foot one back rather than the backfoot one forward. In very hard groomer conditions on a stiffer, carvier board it sometimes makes more sense to move forward for more nose pressure.
Hi there, I’ve always had the same question on my mind 🤔 from where should I move the bindings to reach my good stance width. Thanks for your content and your explanation, you’re doing a great job, I almost watched all your videos 👍. I just got a new directional board ( Burton deep thinker 154 to be exact) and I setup the bindings at the reference stance 53 cm, I felt a bit I’m loosing control on the toe side, I’m 170 cm, 65 kg, do you think should a go a little bit more narrower? Just to mention I set it up like the old board +18 -6, I would like to try posi posi, and learning some carving ,any recommendations, thank you 🙏 well appreciated!
@@adrianserbanescu9466 The Deep Thinker is set up with what Burton call 'Freeride Geometry'. The reference stance places the rider in the centre of the sidecut, and that is a good place to be! So in order to keep that, you should always move the bindings equally in both directions - as in: for a narrower stance move both bindings a little inwards. At your height you could possibly go a hint narrower... Try it out! Easy enough with the channel! :-) Just make sure you crank those bindings down... They tend to come loose. Good luck!
Can’t slam bindings back in POW as stance is 1” narrower than reference. Sizing down to fit stance, doesn’t provide enough float. Is setback more important than stance width when sizing a directional groomer carver / POW slasher like the K2 Excavator? Want more float and keep nose higher than my current board. Binged all the vids awesome stuff, the changes really help tks!!
That's a great point now to find a new board that matches stance. I can't seem to find a 20" stance on mid-wide @ 154ish, or regular @ 156-8. If I'm prioritizing POW in trees, then is it better to size down or go with 21" reference and compromise that I can't move them back much with a 20" stance?
18.5” knee cap to floor. I used to run a 19” on my DC EMB and just lazy carve blues. I started liking steeper moguls and choppy terrain as it brings a new challenge. I’m now at 20.5” +15/-3 on a 154 Flagship.
Very interesting and logical explanations BUT I think you forget something. You could have the same stance (mesured on the center of the binding disk) but if you turn from your back foot from +20 to -20 for example, your back heel really get closer to the forward heel. What i want to show is that the stance is more a question of the place of the heel and not really the center of the disk. Am i clear ? 😊
Hey Lars, awesome to watch all your technical vids, I love this kind of snowboard nerding out. One thing I wanted to mention is that in addition to shin length, and hip width, there is also the "femorotibial ratio" - the ratio of femur to tibia lengths. Someone with shorter femurs relative to their tibia has a much easier time of keeping their center of mass over their board when they are in a squat position. Someone with longer femurs finds it harder, and therefore a wider stance - and maybe slightly more external rotation can help to keep that center over the board.
Super good comment!! I've been thinking about all of this, since I offer mountain bike fitting in the summer. Me myself I'm one of those cases.My femur is wildly long, and in general my legs are very long for my overall height. I can't fit more than one thumb between my lowest rib and the top of my hip bone..... No torso! I'd love to go this deep and figure that out, but it already stops with nobody being able to properly measure those lengths without special tool... and then there's so much room for measuring error. I've also tried to read on body proportions, but there's not much there that talks about average ratios between lower leg / femur / overall inseam / torso... I fully agree with your thoughts! I left that out, because I simply don't know how to weave it in.... Thanks for the comment! People will read this and reflect on it for themselves, I'm sure. L*
with all respect i believe it does not always work. my knee cap measurment is 48 cm but i ride 55,5. i tired 49, 51, 52 noneof them works. You may say that you can go up to 6-10 cm more. Yes but then what is the meaning of measuring your knee cap?? tha means you can use your stance from 48 to 58:) this is not a reference
@@georgeclooney1293 Hey! Replied to you already, but again: You're unfortunately missing the very essence of this video!!! It is about measuring and then refining by riding style! That is very smart, since carving needs a very different stance width than hitting rails....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes different styles need a different stance, you explained it perfectly, and i got it. But why do we need to measure the knee cap thing. Cannot we just use the reference stance and work up from there according to our style.
@@georgeclooney1293 I guess because the reference stance on something like a K2 Manifest 160 is 58cm and on a Stranda Shorty 164 is 53cm....... Reference stance is entirely subjective to the manufacturer's interpretation and they don't know who is buying the board.
I know that one! There's too many variables and ways to misunderstand it, and it also has nothing to do with your legs... I don't understand how the methods that take any upper body measurements for reference can have come up as guidelines.... It simply doesn't make any sense. Human proportions are not equal at all. What if you have relatively long arms and short legs?! What does between the bindings mean?! Like, the mounted binding chassis? Already one way to misunderstand this, plus, binding chassis do have different widths as well..... There are many theories that IMO can not really function. Thanks for chiming in!! Much appreciated!
So take a tap measure and measure from the bottom of your feet to the middle of your kneecap and then what?? That’s roughly the distance you place your bindings apart from one another?
@@A.Sostan too much to write. It's all in the video! Just watch the whole thing! I know, I need to figure out how to explain snowboarding in under a minute on Tik Tok! I'm afraid it's impossible... Good luck on your journey! Keep experimenting! It's a fun experience to play with your stance. 🙌
I'm 176.5 cm / 5'9.5" roughly.... But my inseam is wildly long... It measures 86.5", I'm all legs.... But I have a very narrow pelvis.... So really, the legs of a 6'2" person with the waist of a teenager... Hahahaha :-)
best video seen on this - I am exactly the oddball you described - tall, broad shouldered from a competitive life in swimming and dragonboat racing - but very long torso/short legged (because of my work in automotive design, was fully measured for ergonomics studies and they say in ergo standards - not medical - I classify as a dwarf because of torso to leg ratio!! ha ha ha) . Started checking these references such as knee to ground when I got some new bindings for this season and moved my bindings in about 50mm a side! This ties up with the old jump off sofa and see where your feet naturally go to - so hopefully it will help - off to snowdome next week to try out before first trip to mountain - thanks for such a detailed video
Great contribution here!! Yeah, I hear ya.... 50mm on each side is a lot. Feel it out. With a heavy, big, broad chest/shoulders you might wanna consider adding a bit to the floor/knee measurement. I guess you heard in that video that the idea is to add depending on riding style. I'd say a heavier mass higher up the body justifies a little more platform. But feel it out. Easy to play with! Good luck!
Yeah, that's why heading to snowdome..starting on narrow stance and see how it feels, open up a bit and see how that goes...hopefully get dialled in a bit before get to the mountain. Thanks@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
How exactly do you measure stance width, especially with angle bindings? For example, only measure without the bindings mounted? Or from the center of the bindings mounted?
You always measure from the centre of one mounting disc to the centre of the other. Also watch my other video on this: th-cam.com/video/9LCGWwRAI_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hyHGIxkrqXnME0x9
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thanks. My board is a GNU Hyper 154. Every size of these boards comes with a minimum stance width of 51.5cm/20.25in. My knee to ground measurement is 48.6cm/19in. I have been using a 21in stance but I am going to change to the narrowest insert. How much weight do you give to available or proper stance widths when choosing a board?
@@bsmaven quite a bit.... Luckily I hardly ever have that issue. But it's an important factor. Also, when you're limited to the narrowest stance option, you have no room to play with setting your stance back or forward... Stranda Snowboards all offer an extra set of inserts, giving you really narrow options. One reasons why I like them. The Shorty or Bowlrider might appeal to you coming from a Hyper.
I think it is pretty easy: it's always the length of your lower leg. (measure the distance from heel to knee) That's the perfect stance. Don't forget the Craig Kelly times... (no need for wider stance in big mountain riding) His and my Burton Supermodel of 1996 have been 181 cm or 174 cm... With a reference stance of 50 cm from factory
Yeah, I know! He did get wider later on, though. I think it eventually became 21" for craig (53cm). And I think he rode 27/+9. Not sure on either one of those....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I rode the 174 version of the BURTON SUPERMODEL in 1997 for 52 days in Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and Utah at the Standard Stance of 505mm and a binding of +42 and +18. Shoe size 12 and 195cm. The binding to go was the 3-strap Burton System binding.
My question is: when you decide which length you want to apply, do you measure from the centres of the discs of the bindings or from the outside of one binding to the other?
Another excellent video. I would love to see the 2nd part on angles and the 3rd part on setback - any chance? And a question about the Nidecker guide. When measuring the distance, you should aim for the centre of the kneecap, right? And the distance can be different if you tighten your muscles or not (if you tighten the kneecap goes up). What do you recommend - to tense or not to tense?
There's about five more videos on stance and binding adjustment. I think they cover everything...
8 หลายเดือนก่อน
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Sure, I didn't go through the whole list of available videos before, I watched some of the latest ones. Thanks for the super job you are doing on this channel. Regarding my question about the kneecap - any idea how to approach this? In my case, the difference in measurement is ca 2 cm depending on whether I flex my leg muscles or not.
@ right! Sorry, I forgot that... Nidecker say measure with straight legs. I don't have a personal opinion on that. I had basically found my stance before I found the Nidecker method. So I just found that their idea works pretty well and offers a close enough starting point. It's an easy thing to play with :-) I hope you'll find what works for you! And keep in mind how you're built! (Narrow or wide pelvis...).
@@kingtriton7202 nice one!! Play with it. Give it some time. Feel it out. There's after all still a solid amount of body shape and personal preference in that whole equation. Good luck!!
One issue, inserts. You can't use a blanket formula add 2cm add 3cm if there aren't inserts there. ( Obvi Burton channel excluded ) I don't understand why you're tring to turn snowboarding into skiing... If people want to ride 25" stances on 150 boards let them.
Okay, I appreciate criticism. But I don't understand where you're coming from. You've been commenting below many of my videos, partially I found you simply missed my points and didn't try to understand my angle either. Now you're asking why I'm turning snowboarding into skiing. Well, the entire point of this channel is what you're calling 'turning it into skiing', and I think that's pretty obvious. So why do you keep watching my videos? It's obviously not your content. You seem to believe that nobody cares about anything, because snowboarding is this wild show of 'do whatever the hell you want'. And that is exactly what I'm criticizing the industry for! And I've seen over more than a decade in snowboard retail and more than another decade on snow as an instructor that the industry is underestimating their customers! So I'm here to give those people ideas and information based on the physics and biomechanics of this sport. And seemingly many people are appreciating this - the channel is growing much quicker than I anticipated. Yet you also seem to know a bit about snowboarding - like actual riding knowledge and association inside information. So I don't understand where you're coming from.... Anyhow, enjoy whatever you're experiencing on snow and spread your love in your ways.
Great video! I usually ride with reference stance and then ajust within depending on snow conditions. I have a question, what is the correct way to measure the distance width in our stance? Is it from the middle section of the binding to binding or it's better to just measure between the middle point of the inserts? Thanks!
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
I always just went reference on 156-157 boards. Then I got a 159 and ref was too wide. Edge to edge was sluggish. You just have to play around with your stance and figure it out. Bring a screwdriver with you and adjust your stance every run or so.
Interesting to hear how a 0.5-1" (assuming) difference made all the difference!
Lars, say if I found my stance and its not possible to center it on the binding inserts equally.. Like the distance from the center of the board to the front foot would be longer compared to the back foot... what would be the best option? To move the back foot further outwards/inwards? or the front foot outwrads/inwards? Sorry if I sound confusing... Hard to put into words what I wanna say when English isnt my first language
Don’t think about that distance ever! It’s entirely irrelevant. Only thing: you surely shouldn’t have less distance front foot to the nose than back foot to the tail.
Watch my video on 'length'. It explains some design aspects of snowboards that might give you a better understanding. The actual nose and tail can't be counted into the mix when determining binding setback.
th-cam.com/video/BNOtFxPhxj4/w-d-xo.html
The nidecker method opened my mind to trying a much more narrow stance and I love it. I go a little wider when i need to really force the tail around in tight situations.
Great tip. I had been riding at the reference stance but decided to measure my knee to foot and saw I could/should be riding a narrower stance. Tried bringing my stance in from 22 to 21 inches and things felt more fluid and a little easier with my feet closer together.
I’ve been snowboarding for 20+ years. I still kick around on a skateboard. I started with a super wide duck footed stance, over the years I have slowly narrowed my stance and changed to double positive stance. I laugh at myself because I am constantly playing with binding angle and lean. Can you believe I have never measured my stance width. I would bet I’m still a bit wide. I’m intrigued to try the nidecker method. I have realized I can access more pop from my boards with a narrower stance but I like the comfort of the wide stance. Yet when I compare to a skateboard stance it is way narrower than what my snowboard stance generally is.
Great video thanks you!
Love this comment!! Thanks! Yeah, go take a look! I came to this method in a similar way. I had my stances all sorted and then ran into this. So I went and compared, and I was very close to these recommendations naturally.
Have fun experimenting!
10:53 - best first world problem to have 😂
First of all, thank you for all of your videos! You have a very practical way of explaining things. I see you standing on the Biru during this video. I was just curious what stance width do you use when you ride it? Also do you ride centered, or are you shifted one direction tip to tail. Thank you for your help!
Great board! It is naturally set back, so mounting centred over the inserts is already a setback stance going off of the effective edge. I move the front binding one insert back - hence, I increase the setback on my Biru. I think its a 54cm width, I might be wrong there. Gotta check again.
Great comment!! Thanks!
What I do is pretending I’m throwing a basketball and measure my stance, cause that’s what my brain find the best stance to keep stable and mobile
I actually learned the kneecap to heel when I was first snowboard instructing @ Jay Peak. Now I say to people: "show me a comfortable athletic stance is for you?"
Great info again. Like so many other aspects in snowboarding - it’s not about what’s right or wrong, but more about the outcomes / consequences to different set-up’s and the feeling a you want to feel on your board! 👍🏻
Hi Jeff! 🙂
Nice to see you here! Thanks for the kind words. It's unfortunate that people like right or wrong over individual choice making and dealing with the consequences of that... Doing my best to open those minds! :-)
Thanks for that. I’m gonna go measure my DiVinci stance. Sounds about right. I eyeballed a setup and mounted it and it came out like 20 or 21 inches. I’m 5’11, 31 waist, 164lbs. I ride upright and have a narrow stance, always have. I think my stance on a skateboard and years of skating influenced my preference. I even surf very upright and narrow and all my surfer friends try to tell me I need to bend lower. However I tell them, that in skating, all this squatting low stuff was considered to be garbage style wise, meant you had no natural talent or balance so you had to get down way low to compensate. I still make all the same tricks as they do, but I’m not all squatty and I feel more natural like it’s requiring me less effort and exaggeration to do the exact same maneuvers. I rather just be upright, loose, mobile, and very comfortable. Wide and squatty might look powerful but it looks tiring too. In surfing it’s called a stinkbug stance.
Sounds like you know what works for you. 👍
Your channel/content is gold! I love the deeper thinking and science! Sorely missing in the mainstream world of “magnatraction” pseudo-science 😂🎉
Awesome!! Thank you!! You nailed my intention 100%...... I'm so over all the fashion driven hype nonsense for ultra expensive pro models with slow bases.... I love snowboarding more than anything else... It's my greatest passion. People deserve to at least hear about the physics of it all. And then you can still side slip down a mountain on your favourite graphic topsheet.... But at least the industry should OFFER more real information.
Glad you like what I'm doing!! It's people like yourself I started this for.
Share the love!
The idea of "too little","just right" & "too much" stability for different activities is a good one.
The problems with the Nidecker method are that the middle of your patella (kneecap) is not a precise measurement endpoint. Nor does it take into account any variation in femur (thigh) length. Then adding fixed amounts in cm is not in proportion to the riders actual physique.
Total functional leg length is from the top of the greater trochanter (the level of the axis of rotation of the hip joint) to the ground by the ankle (measured in bare feet). A proportion based on that measurement, then adding %s of that to gain greater stability would work for riders of all sizes.
Pelvis width is indeed relevant, especially given that there are gender differences in pelvis shape for people of the same height. A method to account for pelvis width and for variation in the angle between the femurs and tibias is as follows. Measure the distance the long axis midline of the feet (roughly between toes 2&3) are apart when the feet are in the position to ride a pair of skis in a straight glide.
Knowing whether the rider carries their feet aligned straight forward, or angled apart or towards each other at the toes, is also relevant to the binding angles chosen.
Human legs are extraordinarily variable in proportions, shape, and mobility. Michelangelo's Vitruvian man (not woman) is an artist's licence ideal.
@@riotsupercarver7467 I couldn’t agree more. My goal was to bring awareness to the fact that it’s complicated…. And if you want an easy solution - that is still not accurate - the proposed method offers reasons (add width for more stability…). This is also aiming at people in duck stances or mild positive angles. Once you go alpine angles, this changes again, as you demonstrate perfectly in your video.
I do believe that there’s an element of personal preference here, too. So really, I want to offer guidance rather than perfect, set in stone solutions.
Great comment! Thanks!! 🙏
people have different hip joints so i tell people to try to do a comfortable body weight squat and measure the distance between there feet and see the angles of there feet.
Totally right about the hip joints!
Personally, since snowboarding is constant motion, I don't think the squatting in regards to stance width is overly relevant. There are so many other movements you have to make in the legs other than squatting. My comfortable squat is much wider than my riding stance due to my ankle inflexibility. Such a tricky topic!
I have a pretty crazy stance compared to others around my 6'1 height with 25.5in width, ±23°. I'm fairly certain my hip joints are why it's much more comfortable than times I've ridden lower widths and angles.
Thanks for this great info video. Snowboarding for 35 years already but today I learned about the kneecap to heel method. Immediately measured mine and checked my board. I am a double positive and like carving. In the past I have changed and experimented a lot just like you advise. This way I now have my stance almost exactly to the kneecap, heel method without knowing it. I really like the way you explain all the pro’s and con’s and give a lot of very valuable information. I immediately subscribed to your channel. Looking forward to more of your videos. Thanks.
So great to hear!! I had my stance width found as well before I found this method. It really does give a great reference/starting point.
or u could ride a powsurfbord without any bindings at all hahahahah.
Once again, you are right on Lars ! Keep these great presentations coming !
Thank you Martin!!
Sorry, I like your style very much, but I did not find this particular video very informative.
Of course, maths and stability / flexibility are important, but you can feel that without explanation, calculation or watching anything.
At the same time, I see that stance width / angles affect the rider's style, the way your riding looks on video.
What I propose, is to broaden this topic and make a statistical survey using video footage. Filming people is the most important thing.
Only on video can you see whether your riding is good, and compare your style with other riders that you see in good films.
- Long / short / medium board
- Camber / rocker
- "Euro carving" / jibbing / freeriding
- High, low riders
Because when you see a good snowboarder (personally I vote for Torstein H!) you often ask such questions as "What's his board length? What's his stance? What's his height & weight? Compared to mine?"
That's interesting. Isn't a statistical analysis more maths and even further away from the individual than this approach, which measures your very own leg?!?!
In regards to 'but you can feel that' I'd say that I agree, but the truth is that if you have nothing to compare it to (experience wise), how do you even know what you're feeling/perceiving and what effect that has on your riding?
All this is is a guideline for people, who are insecure about their setup, and I think it is a pretty good one.
Thanks for the comment!! I appreciate the push back!!
Narrow? Natural is 23.5" sounds right
Thank you
I have noticed that being in the narrower side of stance width is generally the most comfortable for me, even though I am focused on all mountain freestyle.
My hips/pelvis are *narrow* and my knees are unusual as well.
So subjective!! Thanks for sharing your experience. You've figured it out!!
I always bring out my Burton board whenever I try to do experiments on stance width and angles on the mountain. Instead of screwing and unscrewing 8 screws, it saved me a lot of time and effort to only do 4😂
Hi, I'm always changing it. If it's choppy chundery slightly wider helps so i don't lose balance while the pony is bucking me around..Also ive heard changing angles helps prevent knee stress in one location..i don't know..
Yeah, I’m with you. Good approach.
For me, personaly, as I have very bad flexibility, it's much more difficult to squat the bigger the stance. When I passed to minimum stance (stance minus 5cm - my knee is at 55cm and I ride with 50cm stance) I imediatly increased the riding level a lot as I gained a lot of mobility up/down and fwd/aft and edge to edge. More over, as the feet are conected to the board, I would say that the forward/backwards stability isn't at all diminished... The feet are still pulling/pushing on the board so the platform is practically the same, with a little bit of flex variation, but not much. But the gain in mobility was huge for my very inflexible body. As you said, stance is a very very personal isue.
Love this comment!! Thank you for sharing!!
Sorry, but I cannot agree. In my experience, going wider greatly reduces your lateral mobility, as knees cannot move much, when your feet are strapped. Actually the load on my knees was so hard, that for the first two years, my limit was two days of riding. After that, my knees were giving up and I needed a week or two for them to stop hurting. I've fixed it the third year, by going as narrow as my board allowed me to.
@@Jagi125 glad you found comfort in your choices! That’s what it’s all about. We’re all different, and wide/narrow are relative terms.
Hi there, I was hoping you had a tip for a problem I've been having with my stance. I can't keep my bindings to stay at 21.5 inches, the screws like to come loose after a day of riding, and then I find myself riding 22 inches with different angles. Lock tite doesn't seems to help at all, I've also tried using skateboard tape as well as the lock tite but that seems to only helps a little more. Any advice to help keep my desired stance locked down would be really appreciated!
Burton Channel board???
to add +2 +4 +6 it's better if they would do that in percentages from your length. One friend is 2 meter, the other 1.65... for the 2 meter guy 2cm is small, for the 1.65 it feels a lot bigger....
I fully agree! I think the good thing here is simply that they emphasize how different styles may require different stance widths. So at least it gets people to experiment and reflect. That's a win! :-)
Your pelvis width doesn't change if you gain or lose weight. Using your pant size is irrelevant, because it would change if you gained or lost weight.
Absolutely correct. I figured people would all be that smart and simply take this as a bit of a guess/pointer as to how to look at their body. You can tell by feeling your hip bones whether you have a rather wide or rather narrow pelvis, and since this is all not a set in stone method, that kind of guess is all we need to say "i'm probably gonna be on the wider/narrower end of this suggested stance spectrum".... Hope that makes sense!
nice
Very good video as always. However, i believe this knee cap measurement thing cannot be taken as a reference. as you said you can have a bit less and a bit more stance than your knee cap. at some point you even said your stance can be 6 t0-10 cm more than your knee cap measurement. That means someone with a knee cap measurement of 48, can have stance somewhere between 47 to 58 which is a huge gap. If there is a huge gap why do we measure our knee cap? we can simply use the inserts and try
Sorry, I can't write all this up... Just listen to the entire thing again! It's all explained in the video. It's about riding style and finding a starting point based on measurement + riding style. Cheers!
I think your video regarding binding angles and stance width is quite the hot take and should be mentioned here.
I never heard that anywhere before.
What?
th-cam.com/video/9LCGWwRAI_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=t3d95qRsAe6DDC4H
hmmm.... thanks! I just added the link below and also as an end screen in the video so people can click right on it and move over to it. Yeah, I guess you're right, these two can well go together! Thanks again!
Agreed!
Hi Lars, Is it a good idea to buy a 55 stance camber board if I should in theory have a 52 stance? Is it going to change much the way I will bend the board too much? I want to carve on that board
Is 55 the reference stance?? Then you can just mount into narrower inserts!!
I'm starting to get more knowledge than practice haha. Just moved to the french Alps and bought my gear, I've never used my board yet but I've changed the stance width 3 times lol.
Your channel is a real gem to understand the discipline and make thoughtful choices. As future video suggestions, I would be interested to hear your advices regarding boards length as well as board profiles (rocker/camber/flat...)
Cheers!
Hahahaha, nice one! :-)
Don't you worry, those topics are in the making.... Dropping in the next few weeks, for sure.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Glad to hear that!
Always set up boards for new people or tell them to measure the knee to floor. Its always pretty close. I prefer 1-2 cm shorter then mine measurements but i run a little close for my length compared to other people.
Is this from center to center of your binding or from inner edge to inner edge?
@@JamesGames-ck7yc center to center
Great informative info! Ride the nidecker escape 2017 (older model was more freeride all-mountain compared to newer escape models). Enjoy powder, steep and deep terrain having done a season also in Fernie. Natural stance at 50cm and ride 58cm! Thinking to reduce my stance width to perhaps 54 or 56 next season to see the difference
Great video. As an intermediate advanced curious snowboarder I recomend getting a screw driver (not even necessary, you can find them on ski tracks) and trying different widths to feel and find your best. As general rule, too wide, more stability but less mobility, too narrow, you gain mobility but you loose stability and when you go fast the board will try to spin a little in curves. So conclusion, its very easy yo change the width stance youself, try out and find your best one. Cheers from Argentina!
"Natural stance" is 53cm and have been riding it forever with a slight duck stance that i tweak from 0 to minus -9 in the back depending on mood and what hill im on and +15- +18 in front.
Today i decided to try 56cm to see what happened and omg my inner thigh/groin just killed me! And i wasnt able to turn my board as i wanted! After an hour and a half i went to my car got my screwdriver and changed to a 54cm width and taadaa, pain was gone and i could manuever my board as i wanted again!
Guess im built for a bit narrower stances?
Hey Lars, great video! What I am missing in most (or even all) stance theories is that - with the same stance width measured at center bindings - in duckstance the stance width measured at center of your heels is much narrower than in double posi stance. So apart from riding style that's also why double posi riders often have narrower stance width (measured at center bindings). My question regarding stability: isn't it about the distance between your heels rather than center bindings? Curious what your thoughts are! And hope you understand what I am trying to say here :)
All in my other video....
th-cam.com/video/9LCGWwRAI_0/w-d-xo.html
Thank you Lars, you may be the only one pointing this out on youtube! Keep nerding, love it!
Excellent explanation man! 😊
Thank you very much!!
You rock Lars thank you! I used to assume wider was better and rode that way for decades. Last season I decided to narrow it down a bit and am noticing improvements in my ability to spin off jumps as well as carve quicker. Went from 23” to 21” (I’m 5’11 170lb) and might even drop down to 20” to play with.
Yeah, snowboarding is all about fashion, hype and trends! Ten years ago I used to ride 23.5", which now seems insane and ridiculous... But I, too, got caught by the 'wide stance era'.... If tomorrow someone started mounting pigeon toed and got some friends to do it, some brand would probably think that it would be cool to promote that as something insiders do.... ;-)
I'm trying to be logical and leave all that stuff out... It can be annoying! :-) And I can be annoying, too! Hahaha... :-)
I did literally the same from 60cm to 55cm and angles from +/-15 to +/-6 (I'm 178cm 75kg)... feeling so much better and in control!
So when measuring the center of your knees down to your foot. Is the distance between your feet represented by the center of your bindings or the inside edge of your bindings?
Not sure if my question is clear enough…
Binding distance, aka stance width is measured from one binding mounting disc centre to the other.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thanks so much for the clarification.
Your channel is very helpful .
Ride on !! 🏂
Youre a good man Lars. Gruesse aus Polen. 🍺
Thank you so much!! Grüße aus Kanada! ✌️
Great tips as always! Thanks 🙂
Nice! Glad it made sense. Thank you!
Super interesting!
I ride a surfskate and stance width/wheelbase is something that makes a huge difference there too. So I have played around a lot and it took a while to get to what I think is right for me. I didn't know about the "natural stance" measurement, so I just took mine and it's EXACTLY what I ride!
If I had known this, it could have saved a lot of holes being drilled in a lot of skateboard decks 😀
Great comment!! Thanks for sharing!
By the way love seeing all of the Mt Baker banked slalom posters on these snowboard channels
I've been thinking about one thing related to width stance for a few days: narrow stance make the board easier to decamber in carves, make stiff board feel softer. Wide stance make board feel stiffer, harder to decamber in carves. And Idk what to do with this🤔
Well.... that's exactly it! So do with it what makes sense to you according to your board choice and riding style :-) Too easy! You understand the theory, now go feel it out on snow! :-)
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel not sure I understand correctly :) If non decamber is better for carving, we should use wide stance, but carvers prefer narrow stance. Wider stances are good in jibbing, buttering and other freestyle stuff.
@@patlatenkiy to 'decamber' a board means to push into the sidecut when the board is tipped onto its edge. This 'push' will technically bend the camber profile into a rocker profile, which is the curve your edge puts onto the snow, which in return determines your turn shape.... The higher the board is tipped on edge, the more you can 'decamber' the board, the tighter your turn is going to be. Hence: it is beneficial for carving to have more weight in the centre of the board, and on stiff boards that can be even more beneficial.
Does that make sense??
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel ok, got it! Thanks ;)
These videos are so helpful
@@weissk7 I’m glad you think that!! Thanks for sharing!
Appreciate your thoughts, I've subscribed 👍
Thanks for sharing
Great to hear this from who seems to be another nerd with knowledge!
After doing your measurement method which was approximately 20 1/2”, I’m going to narrow my stance up a 1/2 and give it a go, I currently ride a 21 1/2. When narrowing up a stance, do you recommend splitting the difference between the two when moving, or moving just the back or just the front ? My daily driver is a 160 Burton Hometown Hero which has a 40mm stance setback. My stance would only be narrowed a 1/2” so I think moving both a 1/4” in will give me the stance I want and give me a little more nose and tail
Burton do 'freeride geometry' on the hometown. That places the rider in the centre of the sidecut. Keep it that way by moving both bindings 1/4" inwards.
Have fun! :-)
Great vid Lars. Once again. Here’s my concern with stance: stance adjustments other than reference stance, and how to best adjust keeping the camber and flex of the board in mind. For example, I’m narrower than reference of 21.5”(51.6cm). Should I move front binding back, or rear binding forward?
Depends on the board's camber profile and on what you wanna do. I hardly ever move anything further forward. Jeremy Jones says he moves bindings forward for extreme hardpack to get more power into the nose... I haven't played with that approach enough to tell you what I think. I do like having a lot of nose to lean into, hence my take is always 'if in doubt, move back'...
Great question!!
I pretty much max out the minimum on most boards(except channel) but I have a 50cm natural stance and like large boards,like 156 and up
Yeah, that’s tough. Stranda offer the narrowest stance options I know of. My Cheater 170 goes down to 46cm.
Hey Lars, I really like the way you explain things here. I have a kneecap length of 54 cm. The reference stance of my board is 56 cm. From the setup of my board and bindings I only see an option to move in 2cm steps front or back both of which would mean to move out of the boards reference stance. Can you give a suggestion on whether to go with rather the recommended width or or the reference stance of the board. Or am I missing something? Thanks and please keep up making those videos!
Ridereference stance!! 56 for your 54 measurement is likely great - maybe even 58... Matching your actual measurement is pretty narrow for all mountain riding.
Hey Lars, just thought I'd drop you a comment to say thanks. I changed my 30/9 stance to 30/12 and got to try it out over the last few days and I have to say it's been a game changer for me. I was really struggling to get my back knee in properly, which was leaving the tail of the board loose but the extra 3 degrees has made a huge difference!! Thanks again and keep it on the edge!! 👍
Awesome! It’s great when an experiment works. 🙂
I'm curious what your take is on a specific forward lean question. When your front angle is way more aggressive than your back angle, say anywhere between 0 & 9 degrees in the back & 21 to 30 degrees in the front do you keep your forward lean adjustments equal on both bindings? I've found when I do that it feels like when I initiate a heel turn my front binding is pushing more into the edge and the back of my board feels more washy. If I put one click less forward lean on my front binding than my back binding it feels more even. Does this sound right or is it something in my technique I need to fix? Thanks for your time. Love your videos
I'm 100% with you! My forward lean episode is likely dropping within the next 48 hours. Stay tuned! ;-)
great vid, thanks. like many here ive been riding for years and never really looked hard at these important details, older now so carving, off piste, few jumps is where im at, just replaced my old Burton Custom with a Capita Navigator, Flow binding so i can get in/out easier, i will definitely try posi stance, last time out i had 0 deg rear, going to dial that up and try 18/3 posi first, 55-56c wide, of to Alps few weeks ,can't wait to try new stance etc
Awesome! Have fun!!
Hi Lars,
with that method it would set me one hole behind ref stance of my new board (feet closer than ref).
Would it be best to have either the front or back foot one hole behind ref? What difference would it make? Or would it be best to have both feet equally distributed on the board?
In most cases it's better to move back on a board than forward, I'd say. In particular on twins...
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Okay, thanks for the answer! But which foot should move back? The front foot, and the back foot on ref stance?
It's a directional board.
@@jnfyeah well….. if ref stance is too wide and you wanna move the rider a tad back while making it narrower, which is the only foot that can achieve that? 😎🧐
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thank you :D!
Great video
Thanks Tristan!! Much appreciated! 😊🙏
Just this weekend I change my stance width for just 2 cm, I have set it shorter. What I noticed is that board became more responsible for turns. At the first turn I did after that change I felt that I needed much less force to make tighter turn (was riding a lot of moguls this weekend :( ). So yes, we should all play with different stance width and angles to find what we like the most and also to adjust to conditions on the slope. Another great video Lars :)
Nice one!! Yes, that makes sense what you're saying!!
I started using the Nidecker method during last season and it made a big difference for me. I am 193cm (6’4”), so I am getting towards the margins of the height range and other methods were less helpful. I love that the method makes it easy to understand how your stance width affects your riding.
Thanks for adding your take to it!
I also love Nidecker's suggestion.
Been researching a lot the past year and your way of explaining makes it all come together. This is so much more valuable than the typical "this board is perfect at all conditions" or " this is the perfect stance" bs you find on most channels 🙃
Thanks!! That was exactly my goal… 😊🙏👍
Good informative video as always! Another important point is that stance width could also depend on stance angles. It's much easier and more comfortable to go a little wider with a duck stance, or a low angle stance, but if you go positive angles, especially if you go a little further with those, not only being wider could be a little less comfortable, but at that point the length and angle of your front foot will add to the total width of your stance, so it's a thing that could be considered when calculating your binding stance width.
Watch my stance setup pro tip video....... ;-) All in there!
Stance setting question: Is stance width set at the distance between the center of the binding's circular plates? Or, is stance width set at the distance between where your heels are in the bindings (because the distance between the binding's circular plates would be different for a duck stance vs. a positive/positive stance). Thanks for your awesome informative videos!
You got it. Disc centre to disc centre is your stance width! I'm talking about heel distance in my other video, 'stance setup pro tip'.
Hi I had a quick question. I feel confident on my stance width now, but to reach the width I’m hoping for I’ll have to move either the front foot forward and leave the back centered or move the back foot backwards and leave the front centered. Do you have a recommendation on which is better or does it matter?
I usually move the front foot back in your situation, but it does depend on the board. On a twin, definitely move the front foot back! On a directional shape it depends a bit on where the inserts are relative to the centre of the sidecut... Longer topic.... Mostly it's better to move the front foot one back rather than the backfoot one forward. In very hard groomer conditions on a stiffer, carvier board it sometimes makes more sense to move forward for more nose pressure.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channelthank you so much! It’s a twin and I really appreciate the advice
@@drewglover2621 awesome! Yeah, definitely move the front foot back!!
Hi there, I’ve always had the same question on my mind 🤔 from where should I move the bindings to reach my good stance width. Thanks for your content and your explanation, you’re doing a great job, I almost watched all your videos 👍. I just got a new directional board ( Burton deep thinker 154 to be exact) and I setup the bindings at the reference stance 53 cm, I felt a bit I’m loosing control on the toe side, I’m 170 cm, 65 kg, do you think should a go a little bit more narrower? Just to mention I set it up like the old board +18 -6, I would like to try posi posi, and learning some carving ,any recommendations, thank you 🙏 well appreciated!
@@adrianserbanescu9466 The Deep Thinker is set up with what Burton call 'Freeride Geometry'. The reference stance places the rider in the centre of the sidecut, and that is a good place to be! So in order to keep that, you should always move the bindings equally in both directions - as in: for a narrower stance move both bindings a little inwards. At your height you could possibly go a hint narrower... Try it out! Easy enough with the channel! :-) Just make sure you crank those bindings down... They tend to come loose. Good luck!
Can’t slam bindings back in POW as stance is 1” narrower than reference. Sizing down to fit stance, doesn’t provide enough float. Is setback more important than stance width when sizing a directional groomer carver / POW slasher like the K2 Excavator? Want more float and keep nose higher than my current board. Binged all the vids awesome stuff, the changes really help tks!!
Stance width is your body. Nothing more important than your body!
K2's reference stance is outdated... way too wide!
That's a great point now to find a new board that matches stance. I can't seem to find a 20" stance on mid-wide @ 154ish, or regular @ 156-8. If I'm prioritizing POW in trees, then is it better to size down or go with 21" reference and compromise that I can't move them back much with a 20" stance?
@@Serial_Hobbiest what’s your boot size?
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel 8.5 wants me to size down but 175lbs and 5’10 wants more float on deep days.
@@Serial_Hobbiest ok. Why don't you just buy a board around 160 in an appropriate waist width around 255 or so?!
18.5” knee cap to floor.
I used to run a 19” on my DC EMB and just lazy carve blues.
I started liking steeper moguls and choppy terrain as it brings a new challenge.
I’m now at 20.5” +15/-3 on a 154 Flagship.
what is your height?
@@georgeclooney1293 5'6"
Gr8 value all info thst you just drop here.. thx you so much for talking your and givd us guidance
Thank you so much!!
12" apart works good if you got a bad leg and snowboard anyways
12”??? Are you sure? Where do you measure? There’s no board with that stance width.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel you have them custom made....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel th-cam.com/video/Kge6S0QPc1Q/w-d-xo.htmlsi=rBBILomnn-ZImzxI
Very interesting and logical explanations
BUT
I think you forget something.
You could have the same stance (mesured on the center of the binding disk) but if you turn from your back foot from +20 to -20 for example, your back heel really get closer to the forward heel. What i want to show is that the stance is more a question of the place of the heel and not really the center of the disk.
Am i clear ? 😊
Watch my episode: 'Stance Setup Pro Tip"
All in there! ;-)
Thanks for the comment!! You're one in a million who ever thought about that!
I must have thought that you will have think about everything😊@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
@@XAVIERZAX hahahaha, yeah, right! ;-)
Hey Lars, awesome to watch all your technical vids, I love this kind of snowboard nerding out. One thing I wanted to mention is that in addition to shin length, and hip width, there is also the "femorotibial ratio" - the ratio of femur to tibia lengths. Someone with shorter femurs relative to their tibia has a much easier time of keeping their center of mass over their board when they are in a squat position. Someone with longer femurs finds it harder, and therefore a wider stance - and maybe slightly more external rotation can help to keep that center over the board.
Super good comment!! I've been thinking about all of this, since I offer mountain bike fitting in the summer. Me myself I'm one of those cases.My femur is wildly long, and in general my legs are very long for my overall height. I can't fit more than one thumb between my lowest rib and the top of my hip bone..... No torso!
I'd love to go this deep and figure that out, but it already stops with nobody being able to properly measure those lengths without special tool... and then there's so much room for measuring error. I've also tried to read on body proportions, but there's not much there that talks about average ratios between lower leg / femur / overall inseam / torso...
I fully agree with your thoughts! I left that out, because I simply don't know how to weave it in....
Thanks for the comment! People will read this and reflect on it for themselves, I'm sure.
L*
Very informative and helpful to understand how to experiment and find the right setting. THANK YOU!
Thank you so much! That's great!
Great vid. Hard to argue with Nidecker’s Leonardo reference.
Yeah, I think it's simple enough and makes enough sense. 🙂 Thanks for the comment!!
with all respect i believe it does not always work. my knee cap measurment is 48 cm but i ride 55,5. i tired 49, 51, 52 noneof them works. You may say that you can go up to 6-10 cm more. Yes but then what is the meaning of measuring your knee cap?? tha means you can use your stance from 48 to 58:) this is not a reference
@@georgeclooney1293 Hey! Replied to you already, but again: You're unfortunately missing the very essence of this video!!! It is about measuring and then refining by riding style! That is very smart, since carving needs a very different stance width than hitting rails....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel thanks for taking the time to reply. Yes different styles need a different stance, you explained it perfectly, and i got it. But why do we need to measure the knee cap thing. Cannot we just use the reference stance and work up from there according to our style.
@@georgeclooney1293 I guess because the reference stance on something like a K2 Manifest 160 is 58cm and on a Stranda Shorty 164 is 53cm.......
Reference stance is entirely subjective to the manufacturer's interpretation and they don't know who is buying the board.
There’s also the Elbow to fist between the bindings theory too.
I know that one! There's too many variables and ways to misunderstand it, and it also has nothing to do with your legs... I don't understand how the methods that take any upper body measurements for reference can have come up as guidelines.... It simply doesn't make any sense. Human proportions are not equal at all. What if you have relatively long arms and short legs?!
What does between the bindings mean?! Like, the mounted binding chassis? Already one way to misunderstand this, plus, binding chassis do have different widths as well.....
There are many theories that IMO can not really function.
Thanks for chiming in!! Much appreciated!
You’re totally right! I meant no disrespect. We are always trying to crack the code. 😂 your advice is much appreciated! Thank you!
@@sethmolano2150 haha, all good!! I was not offended! :-) Yes, we all want to crack all the codes... my biggest daily issue! Hahaha.....
So take a tap measure and measure from the bottom of your feet to the middle of your kneecap and then what?? That’s roughly the distance you place your bindings apart from one another?
@@A.Sostan too much to write. It's all in the video! Just watch the whole thing! I know, I need to figure out how to explain snowboarding in under a minute on Tik Tok! I'm afraid it's impossible...
Good luck on your journey! Keep experimenting! It's a fun experience to play with your stance. 🙌
Excellent video, as always. May I ask how tall you are?
I'm 176.5 cm / 5'9.5" roughly....
But my inseam is wildly long... It measures 86.5", I'm all legs.... But I have a very narrow pelvis.... So really, the legs of a 6'2" person with the waist of a teenager... Hahahaha :-)
best video seen on this - I am exactly the oddball you described - tall, broad shouldered from a competitive life in swimming and dragonboat racing - but very long torso/short legged (because of my work in automotive design, was fully measured for ergonomics studies and they say in ergo standards - not medical - I classify as a dwarf because of torso to leg ratio!! ha ha ha) . Started checking these references such as knee to ground when I got some new bindings for this season and moved my bindings in about 50mm a side! This ties up with the old jump off sofa and see where your feet naturally go to - so hopefully it will help - off to snowdome next week to try out before first trip to mountain - thanks for such a detailed video
Great contribution here!! Yeah, I hear ya....
50mm on each side is a lot. Feel it out. With a heavy, big, broad chest/shoulders you might wanna consider adding a bit to the floor/knee measurement. I guess you heard in that video that the idea is to add depending on riding style. I'd say a heavier mass higher up the body justifies a little more platform. But feel it out. Easy to play with! Good luck!
Yeah, that's why heading to snowdome..starting on narrow stance and see how it feels, open up a bit and see how that goes...hopefully get dialled in a bit before get to the mountain. Thanks@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel
How exactly do you measure stance width, especially with angle bindings? For example, only measure without the bindings mounted? Or from the center of the bindings mounted?
You always measure from the centre of one mounting disc to the centre of the other. Also watch my other video on this: th-cam.com/video/9LCGWwRAI_0/w-d-xo.htmlsi=hyHGIxkrqXnME0x9
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thanks. My board is a GNU Hyper 154. Every size of these boards comes with a minimum stance width of 51.5cm/20.25in. My knee to ground measurement is 48.6cm/19in. I have been using a 21in stance but I am going to change to the narrowest insert. How much weight do you give to available or proper stance widths when choosing a board?
@@bsmaven quite a bit.... Luckily I hardly ever have that issue. But it's an important factor. Also, when you're limited to the narrowest stance option, you have no room to play with setting your stance back or forward... Stranda Snowboards all offer an extra set of inserts, giving you really narrow options. One reasons why I like them. The Shorty or Bowlrider might appeal to you coming from a Hyper.
I think it is pretty easy: it's always the length of your lower leg. (measure the distance from heel to knee)
That's the perfect stance.
Don't forget the Craig Kelly times... (no need for wider stance in big mountain riding)
His and my Burton Supermodel of 1996 have been 181 cm or 174 cm... With a reference stance of 50 cm from factory
Yeah, I know! He did get wider later on, though. I think it eventually became 21" for craig (53cm). And I think he rode 27/+9. Not sure on either one of those....
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel I rode the 174 version of the BURTON SUPERMODEL in 1997 for 52 days in Colorado, New Mexico, Wyoming and Utah at the Standard Stance of 505mm and a binding of +42 and +18.
Shoe size 12 and 195cm. The binding to go was the 3-strap Burton System binding.
@@cb1p111 Love this!!! The first Supermodel was such a good board...
So cool to hear people like yourself tell little stories from back in the day!
My question is: when you decide which length you want to apply, do you measure from the centres of the discs of the bindings or from the outside of one binding to the other?
Disc centre to disc centre is your stance width.
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Thank you very much
Another excellent video. I would love to see the 2nd part on angles and the 3rd part on setback - any chance? And a question about the Nidecker guide. When measuring the distance, you should aim for the centre of the kneecap, right? And the distance can be different if you tighten your muscles or not (if you tighten the kneecap goes up). What do you recommend - to tense or not to tense?
There's about five more videos on stance and binding adjustment. I think they cover everything...
@@Justaride-Snowboard-Channel Sure, I didn't go through the whole list of available videos before, I watched some of the latest ones. Thanks for the super job you are doing on this channel. Regarding my question about the kneecap - any idea how to approach this? In my case, the difference in measurement is ca 2 cm depending on whether I flex my leg muscles or not.
@ right! Sorry, I forgot that... Nidecker say measure with straight legs. I don't have a personal opinion on that. I had basically found my stance before I found the Nidecker method. So I just found that their idea works pretty well and offers a close enough starting point. It's an easy thing to play with :-) I hope you'll find what works for you! And keep in mind how you're built! (Narrow or wide pelvis...).
Question, when you measure your stance with are you measuring from the center of the mounting disk or outside of the bindings?
Always disc centre to disc centre!
Ok thank you. I did the math with my leg and I’m about 12.5 cm over. Seems like a lot. I’ll try a skinnier stance. I appreciate you
@@kingtriton7202 nice one!! Play with it. Give it some time. Feel it out. There's after all still a solid amount of body shape and personal preference in that whole equation. Good luck!!
One issue, inserts. You can't use a blanket formula add 2cm add 3cm if there aren't inserts there. ( Obvi Burton channel excluded ) I don't understand why you're tring to turn snowboarding into skiing... If people want to ride 25" stances on 150 boards let them.
Okay, I appreciate criticism. But I don't understand where you're coming from. You've been commenting below many of my videos, partially I found you simply missed my points and didn't try to understand my angle either. Now you're asking why I'm turning snowboarding into skiing. Well, the entire point of this channel is what you're calling 'turning it into skiing', and I think that's pretty obvious. So why do you keep watching my videos? It's obviously not your content.
You seem to believe that nobody cares about anything, because snowboarding is this wild show of 'do whatever the hell you want'. And that is exactly what I'm criticizing the industry for! And I've seen over more than a decade in snowboard retail and more than another decade on snow as an instructor that the industry is underestimating their customers! So I'm here to give those people ideas and information based on the physics and biomechanics of this sport. And seemingly many people are appreciating this - the channel is growing much quicker than I anticipated.
Yet you also seem to know a bit about snowboarding - like actual riding knowledge and association inside information. So I don't understand where you're coming from.... Anyhow, enjoy whatever you're experiencing on snow and spread your love in your ways.
Great video! I usually ride with reference stance and then ajust within depending on snow conditions. I have a question, what is the correct way to measure the distance width in our stance? Is it from the middle section of the binding to binding or it's better to just measure between the middle point of the inserts? Thanks!
Always mounting disc centre to mounting disc centre!