Caller is Christian, Son is Atheist, & Look at the Trees | Dianna - MN | Atheist Experience 21.46
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- The Atheist Experience episode 21.46 for November 26, 2017, with Tracie Harris and Jen Peeples.
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This is the sound of a woman who has just awkward giggled out of every corner she’s ever been backed into, and everyone in her life being too nice to set her straight
The majority of people in her life are drinking the same kool-aid 😢she’s been brainwashed
@@yourfinalhiringagency3890 thats the weird thing man, its not, she says her husband and son are atheists. She probably grew up terminally religious though.
@@AlexeiX1she’s a malignant narcissist. No one knows where they come from or how to get rid of them. Some kind of parasites
@@AlexeiX1 she’s like my mother. She married my dad who is an atheist and my brother and I are both atheists. My mother no longer goes to church nor reads the Bible, but she sees being a Christian as her identity and clings to “the faith”. If you ever challenge her views, she has no idea what to say and just awkwardly exits the conversation or shuts down. And she doesn’t hang out with Christians.
@@lenasr5792Indoctrination is powerful stuff unfortunately.
This is, hands down, one of the saddest calls. This lady seems nice and well-meaning, but her mind has been so thoroughly poisoned. She can't stay on a subject, answer a question, follow a line of reasoning, etc...
Huxxy no it’s definitely brainwashing and poisoning. If someone grows up being told, and believing, that every unexplainable thing is attributed to god, versus someone that grew up never even hearing the term “god” (which is practically impossible nowadays) , when both of those people experience something unexplainable, the religious person will automatically gravitate towards god, and the person who has never even heard the term god will not assume some higher power/creator is the cause. the brainwashed will ALWAYS go back to their belief and faith to explain things, because that’s all they know and all they were taught. Much the same if you teach a monkey from when it’s an infant, that a certain sign means it’s food time, and then another monkey that never is taught this, when the sign is shown, the one monkey that was taught will think it’s food time and become excited (even if you don’t feed it), and the other will simply wait for it’s food, disregarding the sign.
It was poisoned, but it was never a fully functioning brain to begin with.
I take real exception to the comments here implying lack of intellect for Christians (or any other religious adherent). That indicates a lack of understanding of the reasons for faith. There is plenty of statistical evidence that the bulk of adherents to a belief were born into it and have grown up in an environment supporting it. So, largely accident of birth and environment.
@@wernerstapela4616 I tend to agree with you. And that was the spirit (so to speak) of my original post. Religious education/indoctrination can poison an otherwise intelligent person, leading them to change the subject without realizing it, polluting a conversation with red herrings, non-sequiturs, and fallacies.
@@wernerstapela4616 . I agree, religious beliefs aren't rational to begin with. Small children tend to trust whatever their parents tell them. If their parents tell them there is a god when they are very young ( and don't know better) and later in their lives the community where they grow up reinforce such beliefs, chances are that they will keep that way of thinking through their adult life.
“When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity. When
many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.”
- Robert Pirsig
Such a true simple statement
ADULTS WHO BELIEVE IN IMAGINARY BEINGS ARE STUPID.
Good people do good things.
Bad people do bad things.
But religion can make good people do bad things.
"Well he gave us free will"
Wow. What a quote...
Coming from a man that believes we evolved from ape...
Tell me then sir, how's the family hanging? You know, seeing that we come from ape.
Oh the enemy has been having a field day with him and everybody else who thinks that quote is swavue, beautifully put.
Wisdom of this world comes to nothing, scholars too. Just when we thought we all knew the mystery to life...
And then nothing.
@Brad Smith agree!
“You could never convince me...” That’s the most honest thing she said.
I miss Tracie as a host. She has such clarity of thought and patience.
Where did she go?
@@LoganAddisMusic There was some drama, and I thought I heard that some people left out of solidarity. Choices were made. Probably still lives there.
@@RockMonster1000 thanks!
@@RockMonster1000 solidarity to what?
Tim A , I believe it was over a disagreement about transgenderism. Could be wrong but it was something like that.
This is like watching a game of chess where one player believes they can move their pieces according to how they feel.
*Slides a pawn 5 spaces diagonally*
Your move, yugi boy
THEY ARE CALLED SNOWFLAKES !! LOL..
Graham!!!....not too shabby my bud😉
@@ericscaillet2232 THANK YOU! WE HAVE MEETINGS AND EVERYTHING !!!
You could never check mate such a dishonest player.
Around 18 minutes she says "I just don't think I could have come up with that on my own". And THAT is something I hate about religion. It minimizes you. It tells you you're this awful horrible sinful being and you're nothing without the Creator. She doesn't remember a time in her life when God wasn't present, aka, she has been indoctrinated since she was a child. This woman is a perfect example of what some atheists mean when they say that religion is child abuse.
I know this is true but my religion won't let me accept it.
I am a divided self.
repent or burn in hell forever!!!!!!!!
@@JamesRichardWiley
Atheists need pycholgical HELP because they are going to HELL chose to do so who in tere right mind would want to be turtured forever in HELL
REPENT!!!!!!!
Hill Billy Are you trolling?
@@CosmicEpiphany
Atheists need pycholgical HELP because they are going to HELL chose to do so who in tere right mind would want to be turtured forever in HELL
REPENT!!!!!!!
This woman straight up admitted she just decides what is real based on feelings.
And they literally don't understand why it's wrong. They have zero idea what the problem is. Fascinating!
I mean, feelings allow you to understand what is good for YOURSELF. Your needs, what you want, what you think, etc.
The problem is that they completely mix up what is real for them, a.k.a "what they need", with what is actually real OUTSIDE OF THEM.
It's insane, really. Just because you feel love does not mean that it's some kind of entity outside of you. It just means that you feel love, that's all. Just because you want a purpose does not mean that some entity gave one to you. It just means that you feel the need to have one.
@@SimonLloydGuitar gross. Try to join this millennia.
@@SimonLloydGuitarYuck.
@@zebraimage
They understand. They are just dishonest people.
You will never get them to agree with reality because they are liars.
I think the hosts' exercise of patience is a miracle.
PHAX
Word.
Strongly agree!
Just a few miracles away from sainthood
>miracle
wait a minute...
Knowledge is a gift from God? I thought it was a curse from God for scrumping his apples in Genesis?
lol dat logic and then they wonder why I am atheist
Scrumping ? I’ve never heard that before, but I love it 😊👍🏼
@castroy64 Maybe watch the last 10 minutes of this video?
@castroy64 It’s not about god. Its about his simple minded and usually unpleasant followers not being content with living in a medieval mindset themselves, but insisting everyone else conform to their pointless and backward set of rules too. And any ‘whining’ involved is invariably that of theists when they don’t get their way.
Would make a better story if Adam and Eve started crumping for apples.
Tracie is so underrated. She went into BEAST MODE during this call, but didn't get rude or disrespectful. A fantastic discussion
Couldn't agree more.
And she's more beautiful every year.
This is the antithesis debate where logic wins out.
beast mode against what ?? this woman on the call is unarmed with any brain switches
@@ravenvalentine4919 😂😂😂
Dianna spoke for an hour without making a single rational, cogent, coherent statement.
Absolutely mindblowing
Par for the course ?
She did say “you could never convince me.”
Only coherent statement she made
Tracie Harris is incredible. Its a pleasure to hear someone demonstrate such a firm grasp of reason.
@Bryson Tiller. I usually hate it when people say "please explain." But please, can you expand your point? Where is the confirmation bias and strawmanning? I thought Dianne had enough space to clarify statements and respond to challenges.
Not only that but I am also very impressed that she had the patience to deal with this caller for over an hour.
She is very beautiful.
Kjass Aylo his point (which he explains in another thread) is that the host is using logic, and the caller bases her beliefs on emotions. Because the host deals with the argument logically, rather than emotionally, he thinks it is a straw man because she’s not engaging the argument “on its own terms.”
As usual, there is no argument here. Only more apologetics and ad hoc denials.
Bryson Tiller they deify what crushes them and find reason to hope in what impoverishes them.
At least her son escaped her insanity. Jen and Tracie two of my favorite sane woman. Keep up the good fight. Not always said but you are appreciated.
Sometimes I wonder if some people are born with a god gene and no amount of evidence to the contrary will make any difference.
@@JamesRichardWiley -I think so. Between nature/nurture -some people are capable of believing things that don't sound true, some cannot. The nurture part was tried on me. It didn't take. Even at 8 years old, I had major reservations. Many kids around me never questioned it, as far as I could tell. No idea why.
@@russwilson2305 i swear you are right, my skeptical thinking on god started at 9yrs old nothing made since, like how far heaven was, where is heaven located, what the hell do you do in heaven all day, that was small questions i had that no one couldn't answer. Lol
repent or burn in hell forever!!!!!!!!
@@hillbilly2065 lol.
"Birth is a miracle"
It's a biological event, that we completely understand the process of and it happens 360,000 times a day. I think we're severely lowering the standard for "Miracle".
I would've made an attempt to explain that it is a biological occurence. However, yes, anything that is or can be conceived as "great" by any viewpoint is considered a miracle by most religious people.
Look out! Science is going to disprove more of our BuyBull shit!
*moves the goal post*
Oh no! They're on to us!
*lowers standard for miracles- gives all credit to "god"*
??? The fuck you say? Weren't they just incarcerating, torturing and murdering scientists for the longest god damn time? Now they love the tech we have but still believe they're right about shit they couldn't or can't prove? Why could all these other people see god, moses, jesus etc... but now when it would be in their best favor to manifest their god... they are all leading us to believe their evidence based on feelings and an old book that promotes misogyny, infanticide, genocide, genital mutilation and slavery...
The fuck you say?
One alleged virgin birth and now all birth is a miracle.
Actually, I gave birth to my children at home. All the midwives in my region were religious. I mentioned that observation to a fellow atheist homebirthing mother. She said she wasn’t surprised. Birth does feel like a “miracle.” In unmedicated birth, the mother is naturally flooded with oxytocin and other love hormones. Others present often catch the mood. Maybe what is identified as a “miracle” is an event or moment in which we feel great love, gratitude, or in another way connected to something greater than our ordinary everyday lives.
Also I was born two months premature placentaprevia cesarean section or as I call it evidence one God doesn't exist cuz if I wasn't born in the 20 21st century well a medical expert can chime in here how totally f****** dead would me and my mother have been even just born in the 19th century? Yeah, it was a miracle I survived a miracle of science love science I thank the doctors and nurses every day of my life not god. And anyone that wants to claim that I should thank God I would tell you that you're a f****** ingrate right to your face because I'm going to spend my time thanking the people that actually did something not an imaginary f****** friend
“God is everywhere and nowhere.” Well, you’re half-right.
Half wrong
I'm sure this lady is very nice, but she is childlike, and not able to hang with the complex arguments placed before her. I'm sure she's happy, but she doesn't have the ability to introspect.
She's so happy BECAUSE she doesn't have the ability to introspect. My dog is the same way...
Not only can she not hang with the arguments, she doesn't even comprehend what they're saying at all.
"Unless you have faith like a child..." Is Bible verse that bothered me when I was first struggling with faith. Why would a book that claims to be true demand that I "just believe it?"
I wouldnt call these arguments complex.
But 75+ percent of the USA population(man and woman,"and child") will speak just like her, maybe with more brashness or assertiveness or repetitive, over-elaborated B.S. than she's doing , but still, its literally on her level!
Did you not hear her say god love is HUGE!
If donald T. RUMP's assininity , loserly and traitrous nature wasnt so "Huge", he would have 75% approval rating vs the stunning 40% approval rating which is as stunning as the jerry springer show knowing that his approval rating should be 13%.
This is literally the best video on the internet. I was just like this lady 3 years ago. People who don't run away from conversations like this, usually end up like me. FREE
The fact that you describe yourself as free now, really shows how damaging religion can be. I’m glad you’re happier now
Welcome to the dark side!
We don't know everything - and that's ok!
*peers into the universe*
But we're still looking!
I hope you too enjoy this journey through the cosmos without the brain chains!
@@jamtaco2667 I don't know why it's called the dark side. We have cookies! Cookies aren't dark or scary!
@@lisahenry20 I've had burnt cookies... hm...
The squirrels and raccoons in my neighborhood still enjoy them though ;)
Congratulations! Feels good to be free and enjoy life to the fullest.
This lady is a prime example of the damage religion does to a persons brain
The caller sounds to be a lovely person that has been so thoroughly indoctrinated that she can't find logic or reason, despite it being laid out as a feast before her. She deserves my pity, but not my scorn or hatred. The esteemed hosts are patient and caring in their points... kudos!
People are ripping on this lady, but what I hear is a mother deliberately putting herself in an uncomfortable position calling this show which challenges her believes, because she loves her son. She handled this call with honesty and humor.
This sounds to me like a great learning experience for her and her son.
I give her great kudos for putting herself out there like this.
MNTribeFan I agree, but she’s still completely illogical
I forgot about that because of the frustration she made me feel. Thank you.
MNTribeFan Yeah definitely. I've listened to so many callers that just come on and go "scripture Jesus god did it bible Pascal's wager atheist rekt" and no one learns anything. I think the lady is an idiot but she's a well meaning idiot who wants to understand another perspective and that's respectable
iap
Yea, and why is her position difficult? Maybe because she has no good explanations or evidence for the reasoning of her beliefs? Atheists don't find their position difficult. I could debate a pastor and not feel like I was in a difficult position, because I could back up what I say with reasoning, logic and evidence. I too give her credit for calling in and putting her ignorance on display for all to see.
Faith is a realm of ignorance, there is no truth or wisdom to be found in such a place only ignorance. The path to truth is littered with the bodies of the ignorant, and the path to Atheist is littered with bibles.
Ignorance is not just what you don't know, it is also what you won't know. Her problem isn't that she doesn't know, it's because she won't know. That's why her argument sounds foolish.
My mother told me when I told her I was an atheist she told me she did not know where she went wrong. 🤨 This what I feel this woman is doing to her son.
Actually she succeeded completely by accident...the end result is you and her son figured it out and you both received half of what you are from your mothers....I also am in your category...my father is an admitted pretend Christian, he hopes it can be true but knows he see's no reason to believe it is true. My mother went to her grave believing she was going to heaven.
Michael Sauve this is oddly similar to what lgbtq people go through when they have to come out to their families
I thought about this problem. My kids are raised without religion - you could say they are raised as atheists, but we are not really talking about atheism every day, so I prefer they are raised without religion.
I swore myself, when they will somewhen turn to religion I will not do this crap: "Oh where did I went wrong?".
But then I raised the bar for myself. I imagined my son would become for example a Nazi (he is not at all, but as a matter of extreme example I thought about it!) ... I wonder where my trigger point is, when I will say this sentence.
@@MysterX79 There is no such thing as unconditional love. Just make sure your conditions are sensible. If your son becomes a mass-murderer and never repents, it's okay to say "where did I go wrong." Disown the little monster. But if your son joins that other political party you hate, maybe let it slide.
TrainerblueTube Same with my mom. Just ask them for a good reason to believe besides some pascals wager bullshit. I have asked over an over again and i still have not heard 1 good reason to believe in anyones god.
She seems so nice, but what she says is SO dumb! My heart hurts listening to her.
Dani_Is_Terrible 1
Yeah she seems nice but she's Minnesota nice........which is really not nice at all. I live in Minnesota and I deal with this all the time.
@Bryson Tiller than they should try and give us their definition and as long as it doesn't mean that what they believe is objective truth there should not be a problem
she is not very bright
she's trying to articulate something much more complex - yeah, schizophrenic delusions.
A thinking mind is a waste in many people, the purely functional automatic pilot is enough to keep them going.
Somewhere in the world, this lady’s son was facepalming so hard.
I actually love this video. I come back to it from time to time. It's just so classic her.
@@totokekedile please tell me you educated the pastor.
@@totokekediledoes she still believe in god? How is your relationship with her now?
@@johnsimpson7607 More than ever. She married a conservative, so she's been getting steadily more extreme.
@@totokekedile oh wow. I was hoping that she would have started to delve deeper in critical thinking regarding these topics. But you never know. There are many ppl who finally get there.
Regardless of any of that, I hope religion hasn't divided you and your family. All the best mate.
"Most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it."
- Morpheus
FxHnd05
Lol yeah I can see the comparison, maybe I should run into a church with my buds and beat up all the clergy with Kung-Fu, that would be sweet. I guess that the only problem is that when the cops were called I couldn't just vanish into a telephone.
@Bryson Tiller what is your definition of the word faith?
Man i love the matrix
@Bryson Tiller what is YOUR definition of the word "faith"?
They will ask to be plugged back in if you removed them...then want to forget and have a nice steak
Christian: "look at the trees"
Me: You know, I never thought of that ( pause to look at the trees). You're right! There's no other possible explanation! I am no longer an atheist! You have shown me the error of my ways! I am now a druid! All praise the Green Man!"
Being an atheist in the south, I'm actually surprised to learn there's official atheist communities... you learn something new every day lol hello my people!
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 still have zero clue what that means, and stop copy and pasting crap.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 how do you know when or when not you are seeking with all heart? Feelings are not evidence from God, actually I can feel a better feeling smoking a joint and hearing a good music than when I was in church. My question is, what the fuck the emotion and the feeling has to do with there or not a god? I tell u, absolutely nothing
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 that happens, when you think about god whole day and you already have something how would it look like meeting god. And when you have some kind of dream u believe it. Or when u constantly think about it, that thing become true for u.
@@mystique6068
When people say they do not know God, it is not because God has failed to reveal himself, or that God’s revelation is not clear enough. Rather, their ignorance of God is something they have done to themselves. They are lying to themselves, trying to convince themselves that God does not exist or that he is obscure, while all the time God is watching them. I Could Place hundreds of Quotations that clearly prove that their is a God in heaven, But as he has stated his handy work is seen in his creation...
The Word of God is the only Truth and the only hope to obtaining a peaceful life with the one true living God. It is sharing all the wonderful things God has done for us a saved sinner. Those of us who have grown up in the teachings of the Lord our God have departed our rebellious years, feeling bulletproof and wise in our own understanding.
Hebrews 11:1-3
"Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. For by it the people of old received their commendation. By faith we understand that the universe was created by the word of God, so that what is seen was not made out of things that are visible."
The word “Faith” means different things to different people and sadly, many people use it as a negative, disparaging term to describe anyone who believes blindly in God. But is this the kind of faith God desires for us to have? Is our faith really to be blind, without true understanding? If you look into the verse above, the writer of Hebrews will point out examples of believers who demonstrated real, saving faith in God. Each example of faith demonstrates trust, based on what that person knew and held as reassurance that God would act according to His promises. The "assurance" and "conviction" of faith is not blind belief, or gullibility, or wishful thinking or feelings. The characters mentioned in this chapter shows that they all had good reasons to trust in God. Their "faith" was not naively accepting fairy tales; it was acting in full confidence that God would do as He had promised, based on those experiences.
Faith is so important because it is the means by which we have a relationship with God. This definition of faith contains intellectual assent and trust. Intellectual assent is believing something to be true. Trust is actually relying on the fact that the something is true. Understanding these two aspects of faith is crucial. Many people believe certain facts about Jesus Christ. Many people will intellectually agree with the facts the Bible declares about Jesus. But knowing those facts to be true is not what the Bible means by “faith.” The biblical definition of faith requires intellectual assent to the facts and trust in the facts.
We must personally and fully rely on the death of Christ as the atoning sacrifice for our sins. We are expected to act in faith on God’s promises just as Abraham did, but we do that from a position of trust based on all the knowledge we have of God. Abraham followed God’s order based on his faith that God would keep His promise to raise up a nation through Isaac. Abraham had learned that God would keep His promises through a lifetime of walking with God, so this was a reasoned and informed faith.
There will be times in our walk with God that we will act purely on faith because we do not have the whole picture, as in the case of Abraham. However this faith is not blind; it is based on knowledge of God’s nature and character, His promises in the Scriptures, and our personal experience walking with God every day. Faith and doubt exist on a spectrum, like light and darkness. As faith grows stronger, doubt vanishes. Let us all place our faith in God alone so that we would be strong in the Lord and ready to battle against the doubts planted by the enemy. Lord, increase our Faith!
Galatians 2:20
"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."
I feel like Jen's remark near the end about drug addiction was a spot on analogy for this woman. She's hooked on the good feelings she gets from her belief, doesn't put any more thought into it because she's hooked and doesn't see the harm it may cause. Ultimately, she doesn't care about what's true, she just wants her fix. This woman reminds me of those "this is your brain on drugs" commercials. Sad.
She really didn't want to label her son as an atheist, she wanted to call him agnostic, it probably made her feel better about herself that way.
I know this is old, but my uncle did the same. My brother called me an athiest (i am), and my uncle corrected him, saying i was agnostic, which i corrected him and said i am an athiest. It then went from "I'll respect your belief" to "i would like for you to come to church with me" (he doesn't even like churches) while also reading sections of the bible (even though he treats the bible as a history book rather than holy scripture). I understand why he did it, but it was weird that me being an athiest was an issue while my brother was pagan and had no issue with it.
@@TreesTwisted I always assume that is because people with different religious beliefs still use the same reasoning and justifications for their beliefs, whilst atheism directly challenges the entire basis of religious belief. When I was a Christian I was quite happy to accept Islam, Buddhism etc as I just looked at it as people interpreting god in different ways, but felt that it was the same god overall.
They also have the same core belief of "there must be something more than this" and that's a comfort. Atheism basically goes "nope, this is it" and that's also very scary for some.
She probably FEELS that he's an agnostic, so it has to be true even if he tells her he's an atheist.
RIGHT‼️
If he was listening to all of this…
He HAS to be.. utterly embarrassed “FOR her…
‘Cause she doesn’t have sense enough ..for embarrassment to even Register with her.
She has No idea that she’s losing the argument..
A lonnnnng time ago.
Her son is probably thinking, " Damn, I should have told mom not to use her real name!"
repent or burn in hell forever!!!!!!!!
How can you be sure that is her real name
@@hillbilly2065 omfg if that's you in that avatar lol you should definitely be going to hell!.
@@PaulBrown-uj5le
WHAT it is and im not gonna go to HELL its you that will go to hell for being an ATHEIST!!!!!!!
@@PaulBrown-uj5le
YES ITS ME IN THE PICTURE!!!
this is like listening to my mom talk about spirituality and how crystals can create magic forcefields
Makes me sad that I can relate... I don't want my mother to be like that but I can't just destroy her worldview and make her depressed. I just try to make sure that she doesn't spread it much to other people.
I like crystals and such, but more so cuz they're pretty xD
They do, the forcefields keep rational people at bay.
Actually germanium crystals have the ability to rectify radio waves and use to be used in primitive radio receivers. These were known as crystal sets. They dont need any power and run indefinitely.l made many of them as a kid.
Oh man, I feel for you brother. I can only imagine your pain. I'm sorry.
“This will sound crazy but...” [a]
“You’ll think this is crazy but...” [b]
“Call me crazy but...” [c]
Yeah, ok, we all agree, your god belief is crazy. You win.
God's love is so huge, he's willing to do whatever it takes to show you that love, like torturing every last one of us for all of eternity.
Wow. That's Really Big.
Oh and don't forget he refuses to literally show up to give you that love.
Yup pretty much all the religious
Also a loving murderer.
@@jameskelly3745 megatron is LORD autobots repent or parish.
I bet her son found this to be so deeply validating to hear. Wake up, Mom! You deeply hold unreasonable ideas. Because of this, perhaps you should be exceptionally proud of your son for defying your influence and holding the only reasonable position that there is to take on the matter.
The journey out of religion can be a slow and painful process,especially if you can't come out to everyone. I should know. I don't think I could ever go back.
I had the same situation with my mom but her devotion to Catholicism and desire for sainthood was so strong that a permanent barrier formed between us. Now, whenever I meet someone like my mom I don't waste my breath after I feel the wall go up.
On some level mabe she is, you know? She married an atheist...
Satan rapes homosexual in hell!!!!!!
This poor woman hasn't the slightest idea how to think. Religion has ruined her brain.
EDIT: I have a house to sell her, too
Perhaps, a bridge?
repent or burn in hell forever!!!!!!!!
I can sell her shares in my brass mine.
@@lewisner lol
Hill billy hi friend how's hell going? Let me know I'm thinking of going there on holiday, i might even see you there 👋.
I zoned out about 15 minutes in and 10 minutes later I was like, holy shit this is still going, and there’s 40 more minutes of her circular logic. Jesus Christ!!!
"God is real because we did nothing."
"What do you mean by, we did nothing"
"I don't know, we did nothing, so god" 😀
Ugh... religion sows logical dysfunction in the minds of man.
It also makes a lot of money, which is a great incentive to lie.
Tracie, I want your voice as my GPS, so you can guide me.
That would be a distraction for me 🥰😍🤩
WHY DID YOU NOT TURN WHEN YOU JUST AGREED 10 MILES AGO TO TAKE TURN?! 😂
Wow, miracle is this mother having an atheist son.
her husband was an atheist only reason
XD thank god for making that atheist!
The father saved the day
It’s hardly a miracle that someone bad at defending their belief did not pass it on.
@@Leith_Crowther I think it has little to do with defending the belief. Ultimately, no theist can defend their beliefs rationally. It's more a matter of indoctrination and power.
I love Tracie's way of logical thinking, and her patient determination
Tracie and Jen do such a wonderful job remaining calm here. As irritatingly irrational as that lady was at times, they both remained calm while continuing to dish out counter evidence.
She believes she is right. She just parrots words and phrases she's heard in religious discussions and books. "Letting god in" is one of them, and she can't even explain what that means.
Especially after her comment right off the bat about her son being an atheist BUT - he's a good person. Poor kid, jesus h.
I think Tracie is God 😍
Hell yeah they are calm. . . I have a bad habbit of laughing out really loud saying "wtf that makes no sense " to theists
@@victorruiz7359 I started like this as well but I did that once to my grandfather who was crushed by that reaction. Result: I apologised for my reaction but not what I said. Long story short: you probably shouldn't do that it's just impolite and usually prevents the other person to think about anything but your reaction.
No judgement, just something to consider.
Poor Christian lady, the circular logic just keeps going around and around, and around. We keep revisiting her feelings like a broken record. Holy shit, how many times do we have to keep explaining it? It's almost like her brain is programed to forget what was just talked about every time she comes close to a realization.
Comes from living like a Guppy, in the god-fish bowl
She's bouncing around nodes in her belief structure, too bad they're all based on the same foundation
@@nevanderson1164 Hey, you mis-spelled goldfi-- Ohhhh! I see what you did there!
As many times as their parents explained to her the religion. Took many years to indoctrinate her. Brainwashing doesn't happen overnight because the brain rejects illogic. Her neural pathways are strong due to many years of indoctrination, can't be broken so easily. Good thing she's willing to try.
It is, that's called antiprocess
_"God is love!"_ -- Yes, god is nothing more than a human emotion. We agree, now let's move on.
"God is Love" ... another evidence god doesn't exist ;)
" God is love " ah yes, the love that teaches you how enslave people. How great love is!
Okay so we need to love everyone.. ask her if she loves Hitler
@@thelyrebird1310 LMAO
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
This is a perfect example of why matt's slight aggression and unwillingness to change topics(within reason) is necessary. Every time this caller was presented with a logical argument and asked a direct question, she diverted to something irrelevant, and thus never made any progress. The hosts were incredibly patient, and did a great job of trying to understand the caller and present their side, but instead of nailing down a point they're making, they followed the callers train of thought and never got anywhere.
When a caller prefaces everything they say with "this sounds silly, but" I think that means they're more self aware than they are aware. Hehe.
She’s trying for the gymnastics gold in the next religious Olympics. 🤣
She is bad at it though. She couldn't even win a tin medal.
With so many backflips, I guess her sport is the High Dive...
That’s hilarious I’m gonna use that next time someone tells me how great god is God is a made up pervert
Her son should take a recording of this call to the pastor. He wouldn't need to add one thing.
I periodically come back and listen to this call. It's amazing.
Tonight is the night I listen again.
This (the caller) is someone who has never, ever been required to think through a logical assertion rigorously. She’s having a very hard time dealing with the fact that logic and reason, which we privilege as a culture, are failing her.
I love these 2 ladies. They really had high level of patience and they walked through everything logically with the christian lady.
"He's an atheist, but he's a good person."
Also Dianna: " atheist, they're evil."
Gotta love that good ole cognitive dissonance...
I think that one part was a misunderstanding.
That just shows that she’s delusional
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 you keep copying and pasting the same useless unsolicited quote and it clearly doesn't benefit anyone or start or continue a useful conversation.
@@markpolice3585 What, that her husband was a nice person?
THIS IS WHY PASTORS CAN ASK FOR PRIVATE JETS WHENEVER THEY WANT!
LOL!
Honestly lmao
Michael Streich my dads been a pastor for 45 years and he’s far from wealthy but yer talkin about Benny Hinns of the world lol.. they’re all misled
Michael Streich Like taking candy from a baby.
Michael Streich 😂😂😂
That's right. Religion was born when the first con man found the first fool. The con men have been playing the religion card ever since, with no shortage of fools to feed them.
"If you do believe in God... what harm does it do?" "I don't know, ask ISIS" 💀
or the taliban ?
Talk to a gay person that grew up in the 70s and 80s.
This lady is all feelings, just feelings, and more and more feelings just feelings. No consistent reason.
Tell me about it, it's exhausting living with her.
If they got into religion through feelings you cant reason them out of it, they need to 'feel' like leaving religion. She see's no harm in believing.
@Sean Pittaway
Obviously she cared more whether he was a good person or not. No doubt she and her husband will teach their son this value too.
I actually like her. She seems benign and caring ... and these days, that puts her in the top 10 percent of people on the planet. Unlike God... I don't hang people for their beliefs, I'm all about how people treat those around them. This woman seems loving and decent _(for the most part: she did make one rather bigoted statement that I'm sure she'd never act on)_
It's only when someones beliefs spill over into harming those around them that I have to call it out. Benign delusion is something we all have to some extent...
hell, I think I'm reasonably attractive - see? delusions everywhere ; )
@@garychap8384
Note however that in order to claim "Unlike God... I don't hang people for their beliefs" logically some belief in the existence of God is required.
If you actually didn't believe any god to exist, you wouldn't have made this statement. Something that doesn't exist can't hang people for their beliefs, ergo you must be a theist though a rather satanic one if you worship a god who actually hangs people.
"The closer we come to the truth, the more uniform our beliefs should become." That is excellent, exactly right.
@ZephyrFluous-If truth is what this world seeked, abortion would be illegal.
I feel for her son.
I was thinking the same 😳
I appreciate it. She's really hard to live with.
@@totokekedile Damn!! I bet, well at least you're thinking everything through logically and looking at reality. It's ridiculous that christians are deep into this fantasyland of theirs.
"He's in the air, he's everywhere, he's watching us"
Sounds like a very capable perve with too much time on his hands
And he wants 10% of your money
I can’t believe the level of patience Tracie and Jen showed in dealing with that tragic caller. . I mean God bless them ....oh wait 🤔😬
“The God excuse: The last refuge of the man with no answers and no arguments!” (George Carlin)
"......-but he loves you!" :)
@@perkeyser2032 LOL!
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 I did that with true conviction and an open mind for over ten years and never got so much as a busy signal in reply. Then I started engaging in comparative religious study and thinking for myself and the truth set me free: The Bible is no more than a book of mythology. All gods and religions are the products of human ignorance, fears, hopes and imaginations.
@@Gwaithmir
God is real. Never stop believing God and pray without ceasing.
Isaiah 66:1-2
"Thus says the LORD: “Heaven is my throne,and the earth is my footstool;
what is the house that you would build for me,and what is the place of my rest? All these things my hand has made, and so all these things came to be, declares the LORD. But this is the one to whom I will look: he who is humble and contrite in spirit and trembles at my word".
Humility is the key to oneness with God. Consequently, it is also the key to oneness with our brethren. God's way of achieving oneness is for each person to be so attuned to God that he is motivated to do everything possible to ensure that the relationship (with God or fellow man) is not only unbroken, but constantly becoming ever closer.
Humility is what impresses God. Pride gets between us and God, and without realizing it, we actually shut Him out of our lives.
The Bible clearly shows that our spiritual well-being is dependent upon acknowledging, with our lives, our reliance upon the revealed will of God-His Word.
Most churches are social clubs. The people feel they have something in common. But they don't seem like they ever challenge their beliefs or know WHY they adhere to them.
I dunno why they can't just do charity work or join a choir or something instead. Would do a lot more good in the world
It's true. I used to attend a Youth Group, it was too good to be true. In the meetings most of them were all loving, bubbly and so on. In the group chat (*seriously, why group chats? Just attend after the Sunday Mass and it's good.) they were toxic AF, 2-5 wanted to attack Protestants
Now I understand why the Nigerian scams have been so lucrative in the U.S. .
The amount of patience they've shown in this call truly is incredible. Much respect
Diane is the embodiment of "feelz over realz." Her feelings even override Biblical scripture.
I feel like there is some truth to that. :P
48:41 caller says "I was ordered by the court to go to AA meetings."
49:45 caller asks "Why do so many people go if it's not effective?".
SMDH
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Because theres a conspiracy to cover up its lack of effectiveness.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 I am closer to finding the pickle of destiny!
This is so sad... This woman who has clearly been indoctrinated at an early age and is now in conflict with her own son. This call is a good example of one of the things in which religion does a disservice to the world. Poor woman, I hope she'll adopt the tools to deal with life without the need for a loving good and false promises of heaven.
To be fair, her husband is an atheist too and she simply asked her son to explore christianity by talking to a pastor and he asked her to explore atheism by talking to this show.
I dont really think there is a conflict, if there was, she would have never agreed to calling this show.
As painful as her ignorance is, I'm so glad she at least appears to not disown her son.
This is why people should have to be 18 or older to go to church.
For some people the promise of a postmortem paradise after a life of misery is all they have to look forward to. Telling them the bad news won't make them happy.
@@JamesRichardWiley Neither will living a life under a veil, hoping for the truth never to come out only so that they can struggle through life to eventually reach the end where they don't get the eternal paradise they were hoping for. It's a millon times better to teach people the truth and how to handle the truth than to help them forcefully shove the truth away and struggle through life with blindfolds.
It is true that a lot of people need help to get a hold of their lives and live it to it's fullest, but religion is, in my opinion, the worst possible way of doing that...
This is the first time I've had the pleasure to listen to you ladies. I usually watch this channel because of Forest. I'll say that I appreciate the patience the both of you have when talking with callers. It's the one thing I dislike about Forest in a "debate" environment- that he often cuts callers off through talking over them. I appreciate hearing the callers' full thought before a response. Thanks ladies!
Same! This was a very good played out conversation where both sides were able to make their point without cutting each other off or having a time restraint.
This woman is unreachable😞
This woman is just calling so her son will do his part of the deal and meet the pastor. She doesn't care in the slightest if her positions even make sense. She just want her kid to be lectured by someone into the same position as hers.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
we are made in "the image of God" so life without God is life entirely lacking God's Spirit, which then is to live in the absence of the fullness of life, since God is "life and life eternal." God's purpose with mankind is to have eternal fellowship with those who truly love Him. For only love that comes from a free choice of the will is TRUE LOVE. God Is Holy, and His people were to be holy. God is faithful, and His people were to be faithful to Him. God is merciful, and His people were to be merciful. God has all the answers and with God nothing is impossible. God has stepped into his creation on numerous occasions. He sent his angels and servants to men and women. He revealed himself in dreams and visions. He then entered the human race, and becoming a man like us. He proved his divinity by rising from the grave and returning to heaven. He gave us a book that records these events in remarkable and trustworthy detail. As with all relationships, a relationship with God becomes self-validating. I know that God exists because I have experienced him. He is available personally to everyone who is willing to trust in him. You’ll know God is real when you ask him to be real in you; when you pray to him always; when you place your faith in him; when you ask for the forgiveness of your sins; when you read and follow his word and humble yourself before him.
Matthew 24:13
But the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.
You know its not gonna be a 15 meeting. So Im glad the call was an hour. Some equity for the kid.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 John 20:25
KJV
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
After listening to his mom's call the chances of him being indoctrinated are quite low, I assume.
Thank you for this! I've been raised Christian, and I'm finally breaking free after 43 years. There are too many inaccuracies in the Bible. Best worldly view is to be kind to each other and accept each other for who they are. Also, I've seen my sister with bipolar get destroyed, while my mother keeps praying for God to heal her. It doesn't work! She could have taken medication, but the condition worsened over time. Now it's too late. She should have taken medication and gone through treatment. Keep up the good work! I will stop this form of mind control and set my children free of superstition.
4th anniversary of this episode!
I'm very impressed with Tracie's ability to clarify the discussion with reliance on evidence as the test for reality.
I'm so happy to have discovered this show in 2005!
The entire ACA institution has provided me with a solid foundation for examining my own beliefs.
Jen, Tracie: miss the both of you very much.
That first caller had made platitudes like-
God is love
God is spirit
God is beyond human comprehension.
She's never been challenged before on any of it. She's made the comments and fellow believers have nodded, said yes!, praise Jesus!, AMEN!!!!! As soon as she is asked to explain what any of it actually means, she fails just as spectacularly as every other person that's been insulated by people that think the same way. It's sad really.
Easy question if 'God is love' is God also the gay love he purfusoly condemn.
Religious people are usually so convinced they can't even listen to other people's perspectives.
Love is love. Spirit is spirit. Beyond human comprehension is beyond human comprehension. What do you have? Nothing that makes any sense.
Praise you Jehovah!
Why would God bother making human to have a relationship with if he can't even bother to let his partners have the ability to COMPREHEND him... Either he DOESN'T want a relationship or even to be known and you are going AGAINST his will or he's just an idiot, you choose which.
James Richard Wiley fairies are fairies
This woman is so extraordinarily shallow. She was incapable of processing any of their points.
@MTB-Fritz In my experience more often than not it's due to a fear of death.
The idea that this is it and that when they die they aren't going to be reunited with their loved ones in some happy clappy fantasy world is terrifying.
Jeremiah 29:13 You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
@@loveandfaithfulness4479
@@loveandfaithfulness4479 Proverbs 6:66 - Yall be a delusional mutha!
she isnt capabale of processing her OWN points either.
It’s always amazing to me that no matter how normal these people sound at first, when you start to drill down into their actual belief system and how they believe God works it always turns out ridiculously crazy
Lighting strikes a tree
Non-religious: The lighting struck a tree.
Religious: God made lighting struck the tree.
Non-religious: We are trying to find out how and what dark matter is.
Religious: We don't understand exactly what dark matter is therefore it's god.
Dovahkin Dothraki it's starts in a forbidden cave then a one man ballz up and went inside... nothing.
It moved to a mountain, man conquered that mountain...nothing.
It moved to space, man went to space and nothing...
Now they thought about it, "he's beyond spacetime" boom! But can they explain the big bang...
darkmatter2525 you mean
Non-religious: I lost my pencil!
Religious: God took it.
Non-religious: FFSSSS
For my mom it is: God is angry!!!
This is soooo painful . No logic or rationality what so ever .
This lady's irrational and absurd way of thinking is fully exposed. She sounds so goofy I think her son on the one hand must be laughing his head off - on the other ashamed to have such an incoherent mum.
It’s amazing how many vague ideas this person has to go through life with. It’s also hard to challenge her because it would totally destroy her foundation of who she is... it’s too bad and it also has to do with lazy thinking and not wanting to challenge your beliefs. This is a great episode.
This is one of the most absolute demonstrations of why and how people can be wrong and deny every single solitary reason why they're wrong and they ignore it. I admire both Tracie and Jen for this. This is all inclusive regarding every little tiny thing from medicine to beliefs. WOW!!! It's an incredibly reasonable conversation regarding emotion. I wish people that I know would watch this.
I hope her son was more articulated when he spoke to her preacher
@Jacob Strom thanks
I am a great admirer of Tracie. Love her personality, her patience, her reasoning skills and her intelligence.
This is a beautiful example of the contrast between "I'll believe it when I see it" and "I'll see it when I believe it"
Please stop talking logic, I want to talk nonsense !
same ^_^
I'd like to know who listens to this woman and says to themselves "Yeah. I want to marry her"?
She said she's married to an atheist and her son is an atheist too but doesn't understand what atheism means?
I mean it sounds like you could convince her of anything at all, just by adding the word god to the conversation. Astounding.
👍
I was thinking the same thing
1:00:32 "Did God tell people to kill a bunch of people in the Bible?"
*dead silence*
Gymnastics.exe failed to load correctly... launching awkward laughter.exe to compensate.
They should have started the call with that and her being indoctrinated. I don't know why the hosts don't get the caller to admit that they believe because their parents did, and their parents believe because their parents did, and so on and so forth.
@@carmen_says_hi it often is too harsh for most theist and they'll go into defense mode. Sometimes the best way of going about talking to a theist is trying to get them to think for themselves and make them expose their own inconsistencies and irrationality.
darn, i read this at the perfect time
Not quite silence..... You could hear her brain break.
By Far & Away, this is the best discourse I've seen here. Patience, honesty and basic logic.
She is going round and round faster than a neutron star
Or an electron.
Circular thinking. Cognitive dissonance. Split worldview. Mental chaos.
It is truly a “miracle” how many people have conducted their entire lives without critically thinking through their belief system. Even more “miraculous” are the people who HAVE done the critics thinking and hang onto beliefs in spite of all the evidence and logic
I am truly impressed by how respectful and logical the hosts of this show handle each topic and discussion.
You know a miracle? That this person goes about life with such a simple mind....
“I’ll find out when I’m dead” - YOU FOOL!
Grasp fear.
Say hello
Run away.
But fearing getting afraid so much it rules your life? Wow.
OMG! I made it to the mark of 50:06, and I couldn't take another second of this poor, very ignorant woman! My hat is OFF and stomped on to both Jen and Tracy for enduring her as long as they did! It's people like HER who also vote, that truly frightens me, and there's not hardly anything I really "fear" anymore. Gosh, I'll be shaking my head over this exchange for days!
The longer these conversations go, and the more the feet are held to the fire, the more ridiculous the arguments become.
Well its a good thing to have long conversations with religious people. The longer the conversation the more time to shatter the religuos arguments. This might actually be the tipping point of someone beginning to think for themself.
@MTB-Fritz Yes, but if you can get past that point, then something may happen. It is important to stay respectfull to them. Don't call them stupid or anything else like that. Because they will get into a defence position. Just give them good arguments and let them think about it. It is their whole identity that you are trying to change, and their view of the world. It is not easy for them. They havn't put much thought in about death and other difficult questions, because they have been given answers about the tough subjects since they where small kidds. Answers to questions that have no answers, and they will suddenly be confronted by that. They are not stupid, just brainwashed. It is not their fault. It would have happened to you as well if you grew up in their inviroment.
The scary thing is that this woman is nearly a perfect Christian. She has swallowed hook line and sinker everything they wanted her to. No amount of reason or logic or anything will sway her. She'll never know that she's an amazing example of how religion is dangerous and despicable.
You can’t reason someone out of something that they didn’t reason themselves into.
"god is love"
confirmed, god is shrek...
Shrek is love, Shrek is life.
"Much harm can come from atheists too. They're just... they're evil people. They say it's for their religion."
25:30
I lost all my respect for this girl after she said that even though she sounded like a nice person.
i think she's a middle aged woman. i think theists so completely believing in god they can't comprehend someone not believing in god. so many of them have the same communication breakdown where you realize it never sunk in for them what "atheist" means.
I think she was referring back to ISIS there. She spoke poorly but I don’t think she meant atheists are horrible as a general rule.
i think the gumball analogy just confuses people sometimes.
Found this episode at the end of 2021. Excellent job by the hosts.
You have to give it to her, she's polite and she's talking in a civilized manner. I wish more people were like her, if that were the case we could actually talk about these things.
….and still get nowhere.
@TrainerblueTube She wasn't saying atheists are evil people, she said there are evil people who are religious. Just as there are evil people who are atheist. (in reference to ISIS)
What believers don't realise is that, Tracie is trying to set them free...
What an intelligent, reasonable and wonderful lady Tracie is....
🎵 Feelings... Nothing more than feelings... Talkin' bout my feelings 🎵
"Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. Otherwise there would be no religious people. "
-Gregory House
This quote is so relevant to this vid.
So true