Speaking of special religious benefits: Several years ago, the Los Angeles Catholic Diocese run by Cardinal Roger Mahony at the time, was approached by the federal government to access the church's records for priests who had been accused of child sex abuse. The practice then, as it has been for years, was that priests accused of sexual abuse against children were simply transferred to another diocese instead of facing prosecution. Cardinal Mahony refused to release the records of these pedophile priests to the federal government. And because of the special treatment given to religious organizations, the federal government just walked away empty handed. Any other organization who had members that were guilty of child abuse would not be given free rein like the Catholic church has. It's despicable.
Thinking the universe was created by an all knowing , all powerful " god " entity just for us . Is the epitome of arrogance . And if you take into account the sheer scale and expanse of the known universe and the minuscule speck of a planet we inhabit . Plus the fact we have no significant impact what so ever beyond the planet we stuck on . Thinking this was all made so that we humans can exist as some gods favorite creation is truly ridiculous .
@@joethomas8640 We make no significant to the Earth in cosmic time. It is significant to our existence, but not to the Earth on a cosmic time scale. The Sun becoming a Red Giant will be significant to the Earth.
My god tracey is clever, coming up on the spot with the second deck of cards analogy that explains perfectly our subjective perception and the significance we can subjectively give to an event, that was great
It wasn't on the spot. It's an old explanation for this. We look for patterns. if something has a pattern it's freaky, if it doesn't it's normal, even though the odds are the same.
@@steveo4400 coming up with it when required and presenting in proper context so that listener can relate to arguments is sign of an active mind and doing it very frequently is sign of a really healthy mind. She presents them so lucidly. E.g. If we were talking in real time, then I most probably wouldn't have been able to put my idea this succinctly.
Fine tuning argument is an absolute bullshit argument designed for weak minds that don’t understand math. Show me a slightly less than fine tuned universe and a moderately fine tuned universe and a weakly fine tuned universe and a no fine-tuned universe and then I might start believing.
Certain conditions, of which we don’t understand, had to be met in order for our universe to occur. Those conditions were met and therefore we have a universe. That’s about it as far as what we can say. We can’t say it was created and we can’t say it was designed.
Thank you so much. Finally I have a concept with good information to determine that religion is simply bullshit which is what I have felt all my life. Mat and Tracy you are the best.
One thing the bible keeps asserting is that one pair of any species of beings is enough to populate/repopulate the planet. Pretty small gene pool for that.... Evolution has demonstrated the worth of hybrid vigor, which happens within and between species that are close enough for limited reproduction (lion + tiger produces 'liger'). You just can't get that from 2 sets of chromosomes. Another religious failure.
They had so many thoughtful callers on this episode, they listen, think, and respond, sometimes with agreement. That hardly ever happens on the show now.
Religious people tend to be less critical of what they donate to, whereas atheists tend to be more critical, so in specific donation comparisons they are running pretty even, but overall religious people claim more tax exemptions from donation than atheists. Mind yoy more of those are from churches whereas with atheists it's usually an actual thing
I think the reason Christians often ask atheists to explain the universe because the opening of their holy book describes how their god created everything. If the bible was different and the creation of everything wasn't the opening of the book we wouldn't hear so much about it. Genesis is the part of the bible everyone reads before they give up reading it.
lol, that's an interesting point. Some people get to Exodus, but nobody gets past Numbers. Numbers is the real test of faith: faith that there's anything of value in the Bible
If I cannot use the fine-tuning of the universe as evidence that a multiverse exists, theists cannot use it as evidence that God exists. When they understand why they aren't convinced by the argument below, they will understand why I am not convinced by their argument: P1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause. P2. The universe began to exist. C. Therefore the universe has a cause, and that cause is an eternal infinite multiverse. I am sure that, just like me, they would ask for direct evidence or proof for the existence of a multiverse, and would claim my argument proves nothing.
the mistake with the fine tuning it’s always the same , one look at the probability the we came to be. When you buy a lottery ticket, you know that the probability of winning are astronomically low, yet every time there is a winner, it just isn’t YOU. The probability we are looking for is for a possible outcome not a specific one. We are the winner of this lottery, but maybe there are other winners somewhere else in this Universe
"sin is not just something arbitrary that he (God) can just wave off" then he's NOT God. If he is all powerful, he can "wave off" anything he wants. Also, in the same vein, why is it that God cannot tolerate sin? And how does sacrificing his son actually do anything ABOUT sin? People, even those who "believe" and "ask forgiveness" STILL sin afterwards. So, the sacrifice didn't STOP sin. All we get is this entirely nebulous claim that somehow "perfect sinless blood" cleanses sin. Why? How? Can we go to the store and buy "Son of God Scrubbing Pads" (now with 10% more sinless blood!) There needs to be some explanation of this mysterious mechanism whereby "sinless blood" can somehow make other sins go away. And furthermore, was Jesus really "sinless"? I don't think that has actually been established either. it depends first on how you interpret the books that were included in the Bible (by a bunch of Priests at a much later date) and which (if any) of the books left out you choose to accept... some of the "apocrypha" claims Jesus as a child killed one of his friends just to bring him back to life. It also says he would make clay animals, animate them to life, then kill them for sport.
Well at least he committed suicide by centurion so that we could wear poly-cotton blends and eat shrimp. So there's that. File that under...uh...Merciful. Yep, merciful.
Perhaps God created us with free will so that we might sin against him and thereby be damned to eternal torture unless we appease his wrath. Through worship, praise, and sacrifice. Of animals and humans. Sometimes our own children, sometimes a poor village will just pile all the sins on a goat, and send it out into the desert to die. According to what I've read, none of the thousand years of sacrificing living things to god was good enough, so he did it himself, to himself, so we could just cannibalize the one time he did it perfect, instead of continuing to murder other humans and livestock in his name. A scapegoat for Everyone instead of one village as it were. The Ultimate Sin Eater. Not that you can stop praising and worshipping to appease him, it's just that he wanted to also make sure you knew it was your fault for needing to do so.
I was asking a similar question of a theist yesterday. This ancient concept of the scapegoat is fundamental to the rest of the story in the Bible. Why did they think sacrificing a lamb would absolve a tribe of sin? The central premises are that the animal is innocent, the cost of sin is death, and the debt to god is paid by the lambs death. The Bible just asserts this is necessary, and it’s not clear why. Apparently some believe that at our death our soul is contaminated by any unforgiven sin and god, in his purity, can’t allow you to contaminate him. That’s such an odd story, as if sin is god’s kryptonite.
Because the belief system that underpins a theist's life is being undermined. Because atheists are a living "insult" to the lord and master that they love. Because indoctrinated people often think "outside the box" and encompass ideas that are frightening to someone who has been raised "inside the box". Because atheists do not have an ultimate reason not to murder and so are seen as possible murderers.... And on and on and on...
As a life-long atheist, never have been a 'believer in any god-thing(s), all these long debated conversations are simply nonsensical and really quite bizarre. What kind of logic, what rational reason is there to accept the stories written in the "bible", with everything we know and experience with routinely demonstrated reality, above that written in any other book or written or told, and especially with a great deal contained in other have provided actual evidence whereas the "bible" demonstrates none. All argument/discussions start with assumptions out of thin air.
there's a lot of "Here's a bunch of premises that imply God exists. now I can't demonstrate all of them, but I can give evidence for this one, so that's, like, some evidence for God"
Using Religion to sucker the downtrodden is so immoral. Drug users are people with Drug dependence and usually have emotional problems. Substituting Religion for Drugs and giving people the same kind of high (religious) from that they have just discarded doesn't help them but it certainly helps the church. Preying on people like this is disgusting.
It always baffles me how confidently Christians walk around believing that their religion invented not being a complete asshole, especially when religions have had a rich and storied history of violence and antisocial behavior. "Don't bear false witness against your neighbor" - fuck man, I would have never imagined that might be a good idea if you hadn't shown me that in the Bible. "Don't rape and steal" - Yeah dude, I figured that one out on my own but thanks for the reminder.
Ok, 6 years late, but this was an interesting exercise for me. Regarding the card sequencing, I think they miss a more easily understood explanation. We imbue significance to "randomly" laying out 13 spades in sequence for a reason: A deck of cards is used to play games. In those games long sequences of numbers and/or suits we establish as significant due to the rules of what ever game is being played. However, any sequence of 13 cards, any sequence, has the same probability of being played as any other series of 13 cards. There is no intrinsic significance to 13 spades all in a row. It is only significant if it happens within a context of the rules of a game which definitely channels our expectations to see it as significant. You could easily have rules for a game in which the sequence (or any 5 sequential cards of the series) Jh, 4d, 7d, Ac, Jd, 10s, 5c, 6h, Qh, Qd, 3c, 9h, 2h was the best possible "hand". The reason we don't do that is because it would be really hard to remember that sequence. Humans look for pattern by nature and its a lot easier to apprehend a five-card sequence of spades versus a five-card set of non-contiguous, different suits.
37 million (Christian or Christian-adjacent) churches, working under 34,000 different denominations. That's NOT including the non-profit entities they create that (very rarely) can be eligible for the same closed-book protections. Added note: I worked on a community health project that intended to use churches as community support centers, as well as county and local governments. We targeted hundreds of rural counties in the US and catalogued thousands of churches, leaders and existing aid programs they sponsored. Getting 37,000 churches (a tenth of 1%) would have been a pipedream even with a crew of 25 people working full time on it.
The argument for fine tuning always sez "If he universe was just a bit different both ''sides'' generally agree life would likely not be possible (in it's current form). What if it all shifted in a direction which would be a kinder & gentler environment for life? Just as likely.
The only thing i have to say to theists is - stop adding adjectives. You have no idea what kind of creature is god (if he exists) but than you put all those characteristics as you know what you are talking about.
To everyone who says there can NOT be an infinite regression because we would never get to now, well, an infinite regression ALSO means we are ALWAYS getting to the now. Infinite would always be now. Once an event takes place that would cause an event that could be used as a starting point
I would blow those folks' minds; first, infinite regress is a misnomer -- infinity requires no limits at all, ETERNAL is a description of time with no beginning or end. So it must be "eternal regress". Nevertheless, the idea that eternity means we could never get to now is counter to cause and effect, and ignores the fact that EVERY moment MUST exist in the eternal timeline. How we measure time is based on our lives and our experiential universe. Who said the universe HAD to always be the same? Why not a Big Bounce, and/or a succession of them? Because these limited minds cannot process these concepts, they have to be lazy and say 'gawd'.
Science: gather evidence, then come to a conclusion. Start with “I don’t know,” then “Let’s find out.” Anti-science (religion): Start with the conclusion, then try to find evidence to support it. Start with “I know,” then “Let’s justify it.”
Batman and Superman comic books also have some literary value. So what? I believe those as being true as much as I believe what is written in the Bible. At least Batman or Superman, unlike the god of the Bible, lead by example. The god of the Bible is a TERRIBLE role model for humans. I wouldn't want to spend five seconds with him, let alone an eternity.
@@BaptistJoshua because the bible advocated for slavery? Never said a thing about rape being bad? Told people to beat their children at the edge of town if they misbehave? To name a few.....
@mcpeak69 I have a feeling that call was a troll. I've noticed a trend of people calling the show who seem to stumble around and waste time. I assume they are theists hoping it will prevent a legit caller from getting quality information. What the trolls don't understand is the show is less for the callers than it is for the viewers and good information ends up getting in despite their sick, dishonest efforts
@@IONAPINKMOXIE show me where the Bible advocates slavery. Use the K.J.V., because it is the correct Bible in English and I only advocate for it, not the modern translations. "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23 "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9 “Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:19-20 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10
In the old testament, the pretend god character talked to EVERYBODY. The list of those who heard its voice directly is WAY more than the "few" theists would have us believe.
According to the Bible, God created the Earth and heavens on the first day. He didn’t create light until the second day, so He created everything IN THE DARK! That’s impressive. Also, He didn’t create the Sun and Moon until the fourth day, so where did all that light come from? And He created all of the plant life on the third day, before the sun, so how did vegetation begin without photosynthesis?
How does evolution theory not account 100% for the design everyone sees? There is proof of evolution everywhere. Without taking into account an infinite regress, can you say that life was designed by evolution? DNA is the design plan, and life occurs as a result from this blueprint. The design of an animal is so that it can do what it needs to survive in its environment, and the DNA design will change to make the result different in the future. The 1.2% difference between the chimp and human genome is the collective amount of change in that design since the point we split, and this is due to natural selection.
The success rate of AA and churches' ability to help addiction is only 1 person out of 1000 to refrain for over 5 years. I wouldn't call that success. I've tried 12 steps myself and found it promoted me to drink more, and that is because they continually talk about and make ME talk about something I love. It is destructive to most people, and I would argue that it drives people to abuse substances even harder down the road of "recovery". It needs to be dissolved and resources poured into the discovery of a better more efficient means. Peace ☮💜
For fine tuning, watch the show 'the expanse". Earth has populated Mars. Because of gravity differences, the people on Mars are very weak and bones fragile when compared to people on earth. Fine tuning is destroyed by this. Changes in the universe won't prove fatal if not fine tuned. Life on earth could still come about but different. If gravity was stronger we might be shorter and stronger. Maybe stars burn hotter or colder. Everything would just be different
I look at us and our earth and the multitude of imperfections that don’t suggest design to me in any way. I see the obvious evidence planet wide for evolution and someday scientists may very well be able to construct a cell from scratch.
The natural world is ordered by the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology. Theists recognize this order and superimpose 'design by supernatural fiat'. Theists make my head ache.
Why can't there be a nothing that you can act upon before there was something? It's just a different state of reality than, say, a something you can act upon. Especially if you're dealing with the attributes of "space" before planck-time. At that point, perhaps the dominant laws (as such) are those that function before our local universe is presented and they could be completely different from those when a universe is presented after planck-time.
Most people mistake "nothing" for "nothingness", a state of non- being, nonexistence. Logically, something cannot come from nothing because nothing doesn't exist! Something merely fills the void of nothingness.
I'm actually okay with this James guy. There is indeed a great deal to learn from ancient tales-about ourselves, about culture, the evolving human mind struggling to understand its place in the universe, etc. Sure. But if we're looking for moral guidance, oof. Probably not the best source.
Faith is the answer to so many questions to thiests. The bedrock they fall on when questioning splits thier arguements to the atomic level. You can't argue with faith because to have it you can't question. The only response to faith I've been able to come up with is this question: Why does God value faith so much? A believers persistance in ignorant worship in the the face of all other reality seems to be the driving reason for our creation in thier opinion. Having faith even suffering fatal cancerous ruin. Why would an omniscient creator require an endless glut of worship and faith anyway? Thiests cling to faith that requires such blind obedience that plucking out thier own eyes is given a nod in the bible. Because faith is the only thing thier god seems fo value. And the more of it they have, the more valuble they are to god. Which means god doesnt value them as people or even souls, just as the genisis and vessels of faith. That's like breeding bees and managing to convince them that they are only worth the honey they make. Only our honey is blind ignorant obedience and praise, and I just cant see the value in it unless god is an insecure narcissist. I can see the value to a church, just not a perfect being.
In their desperation to keep their bizarre fantasy going (notice its only popular to play make-believe because not a single christian EVER considers they might be bound for hell) they turn their supposedly all powerful entity into a lame, feckless failure in EVERY conceivable way and never understand that apologetics itself is a defeater for their particular god character's existence.
You know what, why should I give a fuck about “mah neighbor” I don’t give a fuck about “mah neighbor”, unless they are someone that I like or someone that benefits me. There is nothing in nature that compels me to like “mah neighbor” you gotta earn that shit.
Einstein, Newton, ect, got some of their best ideas from _thought experiments_ . I can _imagine_ a 1 ft. square box, void of heat, matter, unaffected by gravity or any other force, and also without any quantum effects. The only problem is that *when I try to interact with it in any way it becomes something and is no longer nothing*
@@lushpapaya9932 *More like my comment went right over your head* lol If you just want to insult me and then refuse to back it up with logic, then you have obviously mistaken me for someone who gives a _"shit"_ about your opinion. *BTW; "I don't".*
@@jameswest8280 How should one respond to non specific insults? If the first "shot" is an insult, then I return in kind. If they can't bother to "clarify" their point then I just assume they are trolling.
One of my favorite things to do is analyze. Or to be more clear I like to criticize; not necessarily to put anyone down. But when I analyze I will be open with what I think. I just heard a speech where Matt mentioned that one of the drawbacks to TH-cam is this comment section. LOL. I understand. But in general I think it's important to have an open conversation that adds light to an otherwise free exchange of misinformation and wrong assumptions. It's the wrong assumptions part that I'd like to take a swing at. Sometimes, to save time I guess or try and clarify a caller's point various hosts will cut off the caller and say something like, "Do you mean.......?" And it comes off as an accusation before the sentence was even said! My criticism is that it seems that much of the time they are trying to say something that was not able to be said because they were cut off. And next someone like Matt will unleash a load of whoop azz when the caller wasn't even saying what he thought that he said. Sometimes I laugh when the hosts go off on a whole analysis and I wonder if the caller is even still there because he barely got a few words out. I understand that if you let callers ramble on time will run out. But there has to be a way to get to the point without assuming or accusing a caller's ideas before they are expressed.
Hey guys I’m an atheist so I am so great for figuring this whole thing out, and one time my mom woke me up for school and I was like it’s Sunday there’s no school and she said I was going to learn about god. Rob’s call in a nutshell. Email them rob, that was boring and pointless
The formation of the universe is improbable? We have one universe so we have one Datapoint and in this universe the universe formed so therefore 100% of the data points point in the direction of forming a universe. That means the probability of the universe forming is 100%. Like if a doctor gives a drug to a patient with some disease and that one patient gets better than that is one data point to indicate that the drug was a success. It helps to have lots of data points in order to be able to make a strong conclusion and with one universe you can’t.
When it boils down to is the Thea is over and over and over again trying to bend over backwards defined inexplicable reasons for their beliefs and they are utterly ridiculous.
the thing is if you look at the span of the Universe, any life, anywhere will take up . 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of time. It can only possibly exist for such a small amount of time, how could you ever think it was for you.
WHAT, WHERE is ANY evidence of "fine tuning"? For many millions thrust history this earth and it's environs is a savage place they cannot live without terrible suffering, with some evidence our species was near extinction. For the great majority life is only livable through artificial means. Too hot, too cold, need of shelter, shoes, clothing, subsistence of sorts, avoid pests & pestilence, sharp rocks and earthquakes, volcanoes, etc, etc...If any fine tuning exists, it's that life has evolved sufficiently to survive and to some extent thrive, for some species, for limited periods of time. Water, life fits, conform to the shape of the puddle (?)
Speaking of special religious benefits: Several years ago, the Los Angeles Catholic Diocese run by Cardinal Roger Mahony at the time, was approached by the federal government to access the church's records for priests who had been accused of child sex abuse. The practice then, as it has been for years, was that priests accused of sexual abuse against children were simply transferred to another diocese instead of facing prosecution. Cardinal Mahony refused to release the records of these pedophile priests to the federal government. And because of the special treatment given to religious organizations, the federal government just walked away empty handed. Any other organization who had members that were guilty of child abuse would not be given free rein like the Catholic church has. It's despicable.
Thinking the universe was created by an all knowing , all powerful " god " entity just for us . Is the epitome of arrogance . And if you take into account the sheer scale and expanse of the known universe and the minuscule speck of a planet we inhabit . Plus the fact we have no significant impact what so ever beyond the planet we stuck on . Thinking this was all made so that we humans can exist as some gods favorite creation is truly ridiculous .
Further to that, we have no reason to think our own planet is affected in any significant way by our existence.
Religion is brainwashing poison
@@colinellicott9737 except we know we do have a big impact and thats very very clear
@@joethomas8640 We make no significant to the Earth in cosmic time. It is significant to our existence, but not to the Earth on a cosmic time scale. The Sun becoming a Red Giant will be significant to the Earth.
@@harroldhenderson yes i agree now, but not only to us right now but to other living things too but yeah i getchu now
My god tracey is clever, coming up on the spot with the second deck of cards analogy that explains perfectly our subjective perception and the significance we can subjectively give to an event, that was great
It wasn't on the spot. It's an old explanation for this. We look for patterns. if something has a pattern it's freaky, if it doesn't it's normal, even though the odds are the same.
@@steveo4400 Ah yeah fair, it just looked like she just thought about it
@@steveo4400 coming up with it when required and presenting in proper context so that listener can relate to arguments is sign of an active mind and doing it very frequently is sign of a really healthy mind.
She presents them so lucidly.
E.g. If we were talking in real time, then I most probably wouldn't have been able to put my idea this succinctly.
Fine tuning argument is an absolute bullshit argument designed for weak minds that don’t understand math. Show me a slightly less than fine tuned universe and a moderately fine tuned universe and a weakly fine tuned universe and a no fine-tuned universe and then I might start believing.
Certain conditions, of which we don’t understand, had to be met in order for our universe to occur. Those conditions were met and therefore we have a universe. That’s about it as far as what we can say. We can’t say it was created and we can’t say it was designed.
Brian is the perfect example of what religion can do to a brain
oh my, you must not have watched this show very much. Brian is in the top 10% of religious brains that call in
@@ChannelMath speaks volumes 😂
Thank you so much. Finally I have a concept with good information to determine that religion is simply bullshit which is what I have felt all my life. Mat and Tracy you are the best.
One thing the bible keeps asserting is that one pair of any species of beings is enough to populate/repopulate the planet. Pretty small gene pool for that.... Evolution has demonstrated the worth of hybrid vigor, which happens within and between species that are close enough for limited reproduction (lion + tiger produces 'liger'). You just can't get that from 2 sets of chromosomes.
Another religious failure.
@Tobias Wayne "I don't know if anyone gives a damn", we don't. You're a creep and I hope your gf dumps your sorry ass. Now stop spamming and piss off.
They had so many thoughtful callers on this episode, they listen, think, and respond, sometimes with agreement. That hardly ever happens on the show now.
The chance of winning the Powerball is only one in 200 million....yet someone wins by chance.....not by divine intervention
AMEN AHLALOOLA
Great explanation by Matt about the fallacy of 'religious people donate more'.
Religious people tend to be less critical of what they donate to, whereas atheists tend to be more critical, so in specific donation comparisons they are running pretty even, but overall religious people claim more tax exemptions from donation than atheists. Mind yoy more of those are from churches whereas with atheists it's usually an actual thing
Hahaha preserving animals and Noah's story is an oxymoron lmao
I guess "Climate change could lead to flooding, and we don't wanna have to do this ark thing again, right?" is the point
Show starts at 8:27
It's so sad that Brian makes excuse after excuse after excuse for god. Twisting things to make everything ok for god
Yes he was a pretzel 🥨
It’s desperation because he can’t wrap his head around that his gawd doesn’t exist so he sticks his fingers in his ears instead…
He has to out of the fear of hell to him not being able to justify it has a price so he thinks
I think the reason Christians often ask atheists to explain the universe because the opening of their holy book describes how their god created everything. If the bible was different and the creation of everything wasn't the opening of the book we wouldn't hear so much about it. Genesis is the part of the bible everyone reads before they give up reading it.
lol, that's an interesting point.
Some people get to Exodus, but nobody gets past Numbers. Numbers is the real test of faith: faith that there's anything of value in the Bible
If Ram considers faith a good thing, he should put on a blindfold and earmuffs and let his faith tell him when it’s good to cross a busy street.😜
And live like the Amish
No smartphone. No cars. No electricity
😁😁😁😁
@@JayJay-two I can respect the Amish for that. It's their Christianity I don't respect
@@ChannelMath The amish are showing arrogance too.
He’d say it was god’s will if he was hit by a car.
If I cannot use the fine-tuning of the universe as evidence that a multiverse exists, theists cannot use it as evidence that God exists. When they understand why they aren't convinced by the argument below, they will understand why I am not convinced by their argument:
P1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
P2. The universe began to exist.
C. Therefore the universe has a cause, and that cause is an eternal infinite multiverse.
I am sure that, just like me, they would ask for direct evidence or proof for the existence of a multiverse, and would claim my argument proves nothing.
Wow! The poor guy who lost his mom! I’m really sorry the people saying do things like what your former friend did to you.
That’s belief for you……..so cruel
the mistake with the fine tuning it’s always the same , one look at the probability the we came to be.
When you buy a lottery ticket, you know that the probability of winning are astronomically low, yet every time there is a winner, it just isn’t YOU. The probability we are looking for is for a possible outcome not a specific one.
We are the winner of this lottery, but maybe there are other winners somewhere else in this Universe
So are chickens , Ebola virus ,Stegasaurus and black holes ...we really feel special don't we ? 🤣👍🏻
Thats definitely why we evolved to tend to the care of all the kitties! Lol 😆
He is a good caller. Very thoughtful. No body knows and may never know.
"sin is not just something arbitrary that he (God) can just wave off"
then he's NOT God. If he is all powerful, he can "wave off" anything he wants.
Also, in the same vein, why is it that God cannot tolerate sin? And how does sacrificing his son actually do anything ABOUT sin? People, even those who "believe" and "ask forgiveness" STILL sin afterwards. So, the sacrifice didn't STOP sin. All we get is this entirely nebulous claim that somehow "perfect sinless blood" cleanses sin. Why? How?
Can we go to the store and buy "Son of God Scrubbing Pads" (now with 10% more sinless blood!)
There needs to be some explanation of this mysterious mechanism whereby "sinless blood" can somehow make other sins go away.
And furthermore, was Jesus really "sinless"? I don't think that has actually been established either. it depends first on how you interpret the books that were included in the Bible (by a bunch of Priests at a much later date) and which (if any) of the books left out you choose to accept... some of the "apocrypha" claims Jesus as a child killed one of his friends just to bring him back to life. It also says he would make clay animals, animate them to life, then kill them for sport.
Well at least he committed suicide by centurion so that we could wear poly-cotton blends and eat shrimp. So there's that. File that under...uh...Merciful. Yep, merciful.
Perhaps God created us with free will so that we might sin against him and thereby be damned to eternal torture unless we appease his wrath. Through worship, praise, and sacrifice. Of animals and humans. Sometimes our own children, sometimes a poor village will just pile all the sins on a goat, and send it out into the desert to die.
According to what I've read, none of the thousand years of sacrificing living things to god was good enough, so he did it himself, to himself, so we could just cannibalize the one time he did it perfect, instead of continuing to murder other humans and livestock in his name.
A scapegoat for Everyone instead of one village as it were. The Ultimate Sin Eater.
Not that you can stop praising and worshipping to appease him, it's just that he wanted to also make sure you knew it was your fault for needing to do so.
Diluting our sin in this perfect blood sacrifice just makes christianity the ultimate in homeopathy
frater chaos Indeed. The whole paradigm of christianity is ludicrous. Great way to pacify and control the masses, though.
I was asking a similar question of a theist yesterday. This ancient concept of the scapegoat is fundamental to the rest of the story in the Bible. Why did they think sacrificing a lamb would absolve a tribe of sin? The central premises are that the animal is innocent, the cost of sin is death, and the debt to god is paid by the lambs death. The Bible just asserts this is necessary, and it’s not clear why. Apparently some believe that at our death our soul is contaminated by any unforgiven sin and god, in his purity, can’t allow you to contaminate him. That’s such an odd story, as if sin is god’s kryptonite.
Why should my non-belief constitute an existential threat to a believer?
They’re trained to think and fear that way
"Omg i can't disown my child for being gay now? What is this, 3000?" They don't want to give up on their privileges
We’re talking about a population that’s largely unaccustomed to diversity of thought. Every idea outside their culture is threatening.
Because the belief system that underpins a theist's life is being undermined. Because atheists are a living "insult" to the lord and master that they love. Because indoctrinated people often think "outside the box" and encompass ideas that are frightening to someone who has been raised "inside the box". Because atheists do not have an ultimate reason not to murder and so are seen as possible murderers.... And on and on and on...
Is Matt's big book of poop available in pdf?
Poop Distribution Format?
@@brucebaker810 I think we could hire some chimpanzees to help distribute that format.
No. It's printed on rolled paper.
As a life-long atheist, never have been a 'believer in any god-thing(s), all these long debated conversations are simply nonsensical and really quite bizarre.
What kind of logic, what rational reason is there to accept the stories written in the "bible", with everything we know and experience with routinely demonstrated reality, above that written in any other book or written or told, and especially with a great deal contained in other have provided actual evidence whereas the "bible" demonstrates none.
All argument/discussions start with assumptions out of thin air.
I totally agree. It makes ZERO SENSE that atheist debate these lambs as if they're even close enough to standing on equal footing
*stand
This argument of fine tuning has been dealt really well by Sean Carroll ...tell Brian to go watch the debate
He communicates so many profound issues very well !?
See also Sean Carroll's God is not a Good Theory.
@@adicleme5 I always thought that was a funny statement to tell theists: as if "a good theory" is something they are interested in
To be fair, "The Big Book of Poop" was assigned reading in my second year of my medical Proctology studies.
there's a lot of "Here's a bunch of premises that imply God exists. now I can't demonstrate all of them, but I can give evidence for this one, so that's, like, some evidence for God"
“Christian love” is reserved for other christians.
Using Religion to sucker the downtrodden is so immoral. Drug users are people with Drug dependence and usually have emotional problems. Substituting Religion for Drugs and giving people the same kind of high (religious) from that they have just discarded doesn't help them but it certainly helps the church. Preying on people like this is disgusting.
I have read the "big book of poop" and I believe in poop
I accept the existence of Poop. But I won't worshit ip.
This whole time, I had no idea that was Austin in the background. Damn, Austin looks lovely.
It always baffles me how confidently Christians walk around believing that their religion invented not being a complete asshole, especially when religions have had a rich and storied history of violence and antisocial behavior.
"Don't bear false witness against your neighbor" - fuck man, I would have never imagined that might be a good idea if you hadn't shown me that in the Bible.
"Don't rape and steal" - Yeah dude, I figured that one out on my own but thanks for the reminder.
The only fine tuning that is happening is life fine tuning itself to the environmental conditions through evolution by natural selection.
Matt during his “offseason Stone Cold Steve Austin” era.
Brian; at last a theist caller with some brains! An actual discussion for once 😅 interesting call
Ram asks 'why is there anything - why should there be a 'why' its merely because
Brian dodging around to desperately defend his god is beyond pathetic.
James must have Long arms, cause all that was quite a stretch. Lol
Ok, 6 years late, but this was an interesting exercise for me.
Regarding the card sequencing, I think they miss a more easily understood explanation. We imbue significance to "randomly" laying out 13 spades in sequence for a reason: A deck of cards is used to play games. In those games long sequences of numbers and/or suits we establish as significant due to the rules of what ever game is being played. However, any sequence of 13 cards, any sequence, has the same probability of being played as any other series of 13 cards. There is no intrinsic significance to 13 spades all in a row. It is only significant if it happens within a context of the rules of a game which definitely channels our expectations to see it as significant. You could easily have rules for a game in which the sequence (or any 5 sequential cards of the series) Jh, 4d, 7d, Ac, Jd, 10s, 5c, 6h, Qh, Qd, 3c, 9h, 2h was the best possible "hand". The reason we don't do that is because it would be really hard to remember that sequence. Humans look for pattern by nature and its a lot easier to apprehend a five-card sequence of spades versus a five-card set of non-contiguous, different suits.
37 million (Christian or Christian-adjacent) churches, working under 34,000 different denominations. That's NOT including the non-profit entities they create that (very rarely) can be eligible for the same closed-book protections.
Added note:
I worked on a community health project that intended to use churches as community support centers, as well as county and local governments. We targeted hundreds of rural counties in the US and catalogued thousands of churches, leaders and existing aid programs they sponsored. Getting 37,000 churches (a tenth of 1%) would have been a pipedream even with a crew of 25 people working full time on it.
I was rolling during the big book of poop
Some good shit?
I prefer a piip.
“What about the moral lessons in the Bible?” Frankly, I think Aesop did it better.
It is from the Bible that man has learned cruelty, rapine, and murder; for the belief of a cruel God makes a cruel man.
-- Thomas Paine
Tom in Liverpool ? must be an American on vacation, no English man talkes like that.
Maybe it should have been Liverpool, NY?
Vacation or fraud? Have you heard of ex-patriates?
I call it Scambaiting. The Scam is Religion/Supernatural and they want you to buy into it. Once you realise its a Scam, its impossible to buy into it.
Response to fine tuning... 'please demonstrate they could be anything else....'
Listening to James is very reminiscent of listening to Miss South Carolina
The argument for fine tuning always sez "If he universe was just a bit different both ''sides'' generally agree life would likely not be possible (in it's current form).
What if it all shifted in a direction which would be a kinder & gentler environment for life?
Just as likely.
Meanwhile, Tom is one hit away from saying "Dave's not here, man."
OH MY GOD!! Brian made my head hurt!🤦🏻♀️
There was never nothing. It is impossible since there is now something.
Watching during covid 19
Ok
Same
I need some intelligent conversation and also it helps me stay deprogrammed.
comments are not disabled!
Stremer They'll disable them.
The only thing i have to say to theists is - stop adding adjectives. You have no idea what kind of creature is god (if he exists) but than you put all those characteristics as you know what you are talking about.
Somebody tell Randy in Malta there are 365 churches alone , and that's one Island ! .
To everyone who says there can NOT be an infinite regression because we would never get to now, well, an infinite regression ALSO means we are ALWAYS getting to the now.
Infinite would always be now. Once an event takes place that would cause an event that could be used as a starting point
I would blow those folks' minds; first, infinite regress is a misnomer -- infinity requires no limits at all, ETERNAL is a description of time with no beginning or end. So it must be "eternal regress".
Nevertheless, the idea that eternity means we could never get to now is counter to cause and effect, and ignores the fact that EVERY moment MUST exist in the eternal timeline. How we measure time is based on our lives and our experiential universe. Who said the universe HAD to always be the same? Why not a Big Bounce, and/or a succession of them? Because these limited minds cannot process these concepts, they have to be lazy and say 'gawd'.
bob obo that would be like saying since negative numbers are infinite, we could never get to zero.
Science: gather evidence, then come to a conclusion. Start with “I don’t know,” then “Let’s find out.” Anti-science (religion): Start with the conclusion, then try to find evidence to support it. Start with “I know,” then “Let’s justify it.”
I love the show, but I cannot abide that opening song. I skip it as fast as I can when the stream is downloading.
Ronald Stepp it is utterly horrific eh :)
I enjoyed Ram,s call - I thought he answered very honestly. It was refreshing.
Batman and Superman comic books also have some literary value. So what? I believe those as being true as much as I believe what is written in the Bible. At least Batman or Superman, unlike the god of the Bible, lead by example. The god of the Bible is a TERRIBLE role model for humans. I wouldn't want to spend five seconds with him, let alone an eternity.
mcpeake69 your comment deserves a big hug! Hugs!
mcpeake69, why do you believe God is a terrible role model? P.S. Big Superman fan here. I even have Kryptonian fonts on my computer.
@@BaptistJoshua because the bible advocated for slavery? Never said a thing about rape being bad? Told people to beat their children at the edge of town if they misbehave? To name a few.....
@mcpeak69 I have a feeling that call was a troll. I've noticed a trend of people calling the show who seem to stumble around and waste time. I assume they are theists hoping it will prevent a legit caller from getting quality information. What the trolls don't understand is the show is less for the callers than it is for the viewers and good information ends up getting in despite their sick, dishonest efforts
@@IONAPINKMOXIE show me where the Bible advocates slavery. Use the K.J.V., because it is the correct Bible in English and I only advocate for it, not the modern translations.
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:23
"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." Romans 5:8
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Romans 6:23
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." Ephesians 2:8-9
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans 3:19-20
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." John 3:16
"That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Romans 10:9-10
In the old testament, the pretend god character talked to EVERYBODY. The list of those who heard its voice directly is WAY more than the "few" theists would have us believe.
An agent can't be timeless. There would need to have been a timeless cause for such an agent to exist.
Kudos to Brian, too.
makes great fire starter
According to the Bible, God created the Earth and heavens on the first day. He didn’t create light until the second day, so He created everything IN THE DARK! That’s impressive. Also, He didn’t create the Sun and Moon until the fourth day, so where did all that light come from? And He created all of the plant life on the third day, before the sun, so how did vegetation begin without photosynthesis?
9:10 for as long as it lasts
How does evolution theory not account 100% for the design everyone sees? There is proof of evolution everywhere. Without taking into account an infinite regress, can you say that life was designed by evolution? DNA is the design plan, and life occurs as a result from this blueprint. The design of an animal is so that it can do what it needs to survive in its environment, and the DNA design will change to make the result different in the future. The 1.2% difference between the chimp and human genome is the collective amount of change in that design since the point we split, and this is due to natural selection.
The fact that 98% of all species that ever existed are eectinct puts a railroad-tunnel-sized hole in your statement.
Comments aren't off? What is this, 2014?
Ungoogleable o_O they stream on their websites and comments are enabled there.
James seems like he was the naïve one in his group of church goers so they got him to come forward with this God is a preservationist meme.
The success rate of AA and churches' ability to help addiction is only 1 person out of 1000 to refrain for over 5 years. I wouldn't call that success. I've tried 12 steps myself and found it promoted me to drink more, and that is because they continually talk about and make ME talk about something I love. It is destructive to most people, and I would argue that it drives people to abuse substances even harder down the road of "recovery". It needs to be dissolved and resources poured into the discovery of a better more efficient means. Peace ☮💜
For fine tuning, watch the show 'the expanse". Earth has populated Mars. Because of gravity differences, the people on Mars are very weak and bones fragile when compared to people on earth.
Fine tuning is destroyed by this. Changes in the universe won't prove fatal if not fine tuned. Life on earth could still come about but different. If gravity was stronger we might be shorter and stronger. Maybe stars burn hotter or colder. Everything would just be different
Birds sing because they're afraid of me.
Maybe we're a mistake and it supposed to be catastrophic
Sounds more like reality for us humans.
I look at us and our earth and the multitude of imperfections that don’t suggest design to me in any way. I see the obvious evidence planet wide for evolution and someday scientists may very well be able to construct a cell from scratch.
The natural world is ordered by the laws of physics, chemistry, and biology.
Theists recognize this order and superimpose 'design by supernatural fiat'.
Theists make my head ache.
Why is it, when I edit a comment and try and save the change, all my comments are wiped out. ?????
Why can't there be a nothing that you can act upon before there was something? It's just a different state of reality than, say, a something you can act upon. Especially if you're dealing with the attributes of "space" before planck-time. At that point, perhaps the dominant laws (as such) are those that function before our local universe is presented and they could be completely different from those when a universe is presented after planck-time.
Then that's not nothing. Nothing is simply the concept placeholder for something (thing | no thing), it is not a thing in of itself.
Most people mistake "nothing" for "nothingness", a state of non- being, nonexistence. Logically, something cannot come from nothing because nothing doesn't exist! Something merely fills the void of nothingness.
watched all of it, it was good
Last week, I bought some canvas bags to help with your cause. But I feel as if I'm not doing enough. Please email me, so I can donate directly. Thanks
Good, now fill those bags with Bibles.
Now throw them away.
20:00 this was stooping so low
1:34:00 JD Vance?! The recent VP pick?
I'm actually okay with this James guy. There is indeed a great deal to learn from ancient tales-about ourselves, about culture, the evolving human mind struggling to understand its place in the universe, etc. Sure. But if we're looking for moral guidance, oof. Probably not the best source.
As soon as their comment is discredit they just move onto another absurdity
Faith is the answer to so many questions to thiests. The bedrock they fall on when questioning splits thier arguements to the atomic level. You can't argue with faith because to have it you can't question.
The only response to faith I've been able to come up with is this question:
Why does God value faith so much?
A believers persistance in ignorant worship in the the face of all other reality seems to be the driving reason for our creation in thier opinion. Having faith even suffering fatal cancerous ruin.
Why would an omniscient creator require an endless glut of worship and faith anyway?
Thiests cling to faith that requires such blind obedience that plucking out thier own eyes is given a nod in the bible. Because faith is the only thing thier god seems fo value. And the more of it they have, the more valuble they are to god.
Which means god doesnt value them as people or even souls, just as the genisis and vessels of faith.
That's like breeding bees and managing to convince them that they are only worth the honey they make.
Only our honey is blind ignorant obedience and praise, and I just cant see the value in it unless god is an insecure narcissist.
I can see the value to a church, just not a perfect being.
Totally agree…..have a course on all religions
Randy should consider if $cientology should get tax exempt status
You also get designed things that look natural, I have a plastic bonsai tree, someone designed it yet it looks natural
James is desperate to rationalize some way to sneak his book of fairy tales into the schools.😈
In their desperation to keep their bizarre fantasy going (notice its only popular to play make-believe because not a single christian EVER considers they might be bound for hell) they turn their supposedly all powerful entity into a lame, feckless failure in EVERY conceivable way and never understand that apologetics itself is a defeater for their particular god character's existence.
Again the background I think would be better if you move the picture over a bit to remove the empty space behind Matt.
Kefka But then again that would give Tracie a Popeishly crazy hat...
Or build something in Austin!
You know what, why should I give a fuck about “mah neighbor” I don’t give a fuck about “mah neighbor”, unless they are someone that I like or someone that benefits me. There is nothing in nature that compels me to like “mah neighbor” you gotta earn that shit.
Einstein, Newton, ect, got some of their best ideas from _thought experiments_ .
I can _imagine_ a 1 ft. square box, void of heat, matter, unaffected by gravity or any other force, and also without
any quantum effects.
The only problem is that *when I try to interact with it in any way it becomes something and is no longer nothing*
That obviously went right over your head that part.
@@lushpapaya9932 *More like my comment went right over your head* lol
If you just want to insult me and then refuse to back it up with logic, then you have obviously
mistaken me for someone who gives a _"shit"_ about your opinion. *BTW; "I don't".*
@@moodyrick8503 username checks out.
@@jameswest8280 How should one respond to non specific insults?
If the first "shot" is an insult, then I return in kind.
If they can't bother to "clarify" their point then I just assume they are trolling.
One of my favorite things to do is analyze. Or to be more clear I like to criticize; not necessarily to put anyone down. But when I analyze I will be open with what I think. I just heard a speech where Matt mentioned that one of the drawbacks to TH-cam is this comment section. LOL. I understand. But in general I think it's important to have an open conversation that adds light to an otherwise free exchange of misinformation and wrong assumptions. It's the wrong assumptions part that I'd like to take a swing at. Sometimes, to save time I guess or try and clarify a caller's point various hosts will cut off the caller and say something like, "Do you mean.......?" And it comes off as an accusation before the sentence was even said! My criticism is that it seems that much of the time they are trying to say something that was not able to be said because they were cut off. And next someone like Matt will unleash a load of whoop azz when the caller wasn't even saying what he thought that he said. Sometimes I laugh when the hosts go off on a whole analysis and I wonder if the caller is even still there because he barely got a few words out. I understand that if you let callers ramble on time will run out. But there has to be a way to get to the point without assuming or accusing a caller's ideas before they are expressed.
What's with the canned laughter in the background, or whatever it is?
It's just laughter.
From the audience.
audience is in another room. window in between.
Hey guys I’m an atheist so I am so great for figuring this whole thing out, and one time my mom woke me up for school and I was like it’s Sunday there’s no school and she said I was going to learn about god.
Rob’s call in a nutshell. Email them rob, that was boring and pointless
Cool. A mistake I guess? I will try to be polite.
The formation of the universe is improbable? We have one universe so we have one Datapoint and in this universe the universe formed so therefore 100% of the data points point in the direction of forming a universe. That means the probability of the universe forming is 100%. Like if a doctor gives a drug to a patient with some disease and that one patient gets better than that is one data point to indicate that the drug was a success. It helps to have lots of data points in order to be able to make a strong conclusion and with one universe you can’t.
When it boils down to is the Thea is over and over and over again trying to bend over backwards defined inexplicable reasons for their beliefs and they are utterly ridiculous.
Where can I buy The Big Book of Poop ?
Urine luck. You can ordure it online.
@@brucebaker810 🤣🤣
@@telfordguy34uk Crap. Connection glitch. I dropped a long, funny sequel. Described aerial stunt Loop de Poop. But the internet flushed it.
Barns & No Bull?
Hamazon?
Sty, Barn & Beyond
Udderly any moozed bookstore
the thing is if you look at the span of the Universe, any life, anywhere will take up . 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of time. It can only possibly exist for such a small amount of time, how could you ever think it was for you.
and I think I left out about 10 zeros lol
The big book of poop IS real, you blasphemers!!!
The scrolls of farts is Truth!
@@ApocryphalDude The Scroll of Farts is just aplopryphal. not actual Scripturd.
WHAT, WHERE is ANY evidence of "fine tuning"?
For many millions thrust history this earth and it's environs is a savage place they cannot live without terrible suffering, with some evidence our species was near extinction.
For the great majority life is only livable through artificial means.
Too hot, too cold, need of shelter, shoes, clothing, subsistence of sorts, avoid pests & pestilence, sharp rocks and earthquakes, volcanoes, etc, etc...If any fine tuning exists, it's that life has evolved sufficiently to survive and to some extent thrive, for some species, for limited periods of time.
Water, life fits, conform to the shape of the puddle (?)
A....not disabled? Or not going to show?
My mother is 160 years old.
Her cat is a Christian.
Connection ?
Is your mom's name Sarah? (Guess re Abraham's old wife)
You're only 3 weeks ahead of me this time.
YT algorithm showing us the same list.
@@brucebaker810
I don't remember writing that.
I wonder what it means ?
How did you determine the cat was Christian?