Big time RTD fan here, also wasn't too into this episode and wanted to lend my thoughts/support to back you up. For me personally, it's important to witness a relationship grow over time (even just across a couple of episodes!) so that I as a viewer feel invested in it. While I really liked certain aspects of Rogue, I think what's tough to believe is that he would so quickly hit several companion milestones with the Doctor across such a short period of time. We've got seeing the TARDIS interior, being invited to travel with him, and kissing him within a really short duration. This was also directly following a scene where Rogue did contemplate killing him (which you brought up repeatedly). That's where it was tough for me to invest in and felt rushed. If we had at least watched their relationship grow across a two-part episode arc and witnessed their dynamic change from enemies to lovers across more time, I think I would feel differently. Additionally, I feel the same way about the Madame de Pompadour episode and remember being surprised when initially watching it that Ten would leave Rose, Mickey, and the TARDIS behind for someone he met very recently. *This all being said, kudos to everyone who really enjoyed this episode! I'm glad we're all able to feel passionately about various aspects of this show
@@DannyTDW in the girl in the fireplace episode the doctor fell in love in like an hour and it was just as fast as this one yet no one complained about it 🙄 WONDER WHY
The answer to your conundrum is simple. Rogue was able to knock Rose off the trap because for a brief moment that only the Doctor and Rogue knew about it was not trapping anyone as the capacity of 6 was exceeded. Rogue shoved Rose off immediately which engaged the trap once again before any of the Chuldur could figure it out and step off the trap. The foreshadowing of this happened when the Doctor was telling Rogue, "max of 6 and no more," earlier in the episode. The quick-thinker Rogue is saved Ruby from the trap.
10 fell in love with Madame De Pompadour when he saw her all grown up and even snogged her it’s no different to this, I don’t see your complaints with this story
as i said in the video, Madame De pompadour didn't try to kill the doctor before they fell in love. Also in that episode where Time is messed up, The doctor spends a lot of time with Madame de pompadour before returning and checking in on rose. So it is different. all be it in the space of one episode we know they spent time together. The Doctor offering a bounty hunter to become his companion after literally 20 minutes is ridiculous.
@@dtdwreactsLots of people try to kill the Doctor who he becomes friends with, including someone he ends up marrying. If you rewatch Girl in the Fireplace, you'll actually see that the timespan difference between these two episodes is actually not that much from the Doctor's perspective. The biggest dark spot we have is a big party he attended, so a couple of hours, maximum. Other than that, this episode and that one quite easily can take place over the same span of around 2-3 hours from the Doctor's perspective, I don't find it hard to imagine him falling for someone within that time frame. He has been sold on companions quicker in the past. It's also pretty apparent that in the scene in the TARDIS 20 minutes in that you seem to be talking about, he is not actually sold on Rogue as a companion yet. There is nothing definite. I do think you generally find a lot more to complain about in this show than most people tbh, but that's why I watch your channel so like... I'm not complaining I guess 💀
It’s not really comparable, Reinette was a one off character and it was more her falling for the Doctor because she knew him her whole life on and off, with the Doctor just sort of falling for her in response. Here the Doctor falls in love with Rogue almost instantly because he’s attractive and they want us to have this big moment at the end to look forward to his inevitable return and I just don’t buy it.
No no no, do not compare this to the Tenth Doctor and madame de pompadour That's completely different, Madame de pompadour lunged herself onto the doctor, she literally made the first move onto him backing up against the fireplace wall He didnt stand there like the 15th doctor did (in this episode) in the tardis and look into each others eyes and lean in towards each other (about to kiss) for 30 secs!!! Also madamme didn't try and kill him
The doctor has fallen for people quick before. Whirlwind romances are a thing they happen all the time. I knew i loved my wife the day i met her I see this as no different.
I dunno, I quite liked this story. If Rogue was some random guy, I think the romance would be a lot more out of place and annoying, but Rogue having such a personal life like the Doctor, and losing people he cared for, it made their connection much more personal and easy to connecr with. I never liked the Doctors romances with humans, but it always felt more organic with characters like River, because they had an honest connection and similar complex life they could connect over. Rogue is the Doctor like how he was in 2005, even his ship is very similar to the scrapiness of 9s Tardis. 9 met Rose and made him better, Rogue met 15 and made him better.
I actually like this episode a lot, 8/10 for me. The chemistry between the Doctor and Rogue was fantastic and the actors did a great job making the romance believable. The villains were a bit weaker and the stakes were not that high but it fitted the tone of the episode.
The reason for the romance between the Doctor and Rogue is simple: The Doctor just has charm. All their companions can attest to that. About Ruby, because the cage was limited to only 6 people, when 7 people are in it, it temporarily disables the cage, like an overweight lift. Thats how Ruby was able to be pushed off by Rogue.
Finally, someone with some common sense, I think this guy has already watched the episode before he recorded his “reaction” notice how he liked the episodes that a majority of people didn’t but hates the one that a majority of people really like, it seems like a forced reaction
@@DoctorWhoManiaProductions23 Nah, I think you're projecting a little bit there. That aside, I'd argue the episode didn't do a very good job at setting up how the trap worked prior to the ending, so it's a fair criticism.
I thought this episode was entertaining filler before the finale. I think the logic for the end was that the triangle thing holds max 6 people so when rogue jumps on it deactivates for a split second, and when he shoves ruby off it, it turns back on
Really liked the episode, a "standard" Who episode, the first this season. Ruby's b-plot wasn't much to write home about; felt a bit forced. The flirting was great, the chemistry strong. I didn't read it as "I love him now" more like infatuation. Made me think what the guy in "Blink" said: "Life is short and you are hot." I mean yeah, The Doctor is basically immortal, but the sentiment stands. The Doctor has a track record for instant fascination / thinking people are amazing. This isn't a stretch.
I can tell that bowelstrek going to have a fit seeing the doctor and Rogue's relationship lol. This episode was pretty good, solid 7 for me and 5th fave (look the other episodes are just too good). Edit: Yeah I get you weren't too in it. It was werid he suddenly loved Rogue but i actually thought that was the case so i wasmt too shocked when i saw it. For me I enjoyed it but not as good as the other episodes in the series (apart from space babies, that still bottom). Ngl I kinda forgot about earrings so I was shocked about her "dying". Overall the episode was good but nothing amazing, kinda like space babies.
River song literally made several attempts on the doctors life. I love rogue and I hope their relationship with the doctor is built on in future series’.
River only does that later on. And it's not like the Doctor fell in love with River in one episode. Hell, not even the 2nd episode since it was a two parter. NOT even the two parter after that NOR the one after that. It was a long build up
When Rogue kissed the Doctor, I genuinely thought it was to distract him long enough to press the button and send Ruby away with the Chuldurs, but I realise that would have been quite evil lol (and of course Ruby is in the next episodes so obviously that wasn't going to happen). But I did kind of want a big betrayal moment haha
The reason ruby could be pushed off the trap is bc earlier the doc set the max to 6 and at the time there were 6, so when rogue stepped in everyone could move for a moment and he then pushed ruby out replacing her and setting it back to six so everyone was stuck again
For me, this one was so much fun. They are trying to do a "Captain Jack 2.0" sort of thing with Rogue. I saw a comment somewhere pointing out that this was like Empty child/Doctor Dances with the roles revered (in that one, Jack flirts with Rose, in this one Doc 15 flirts with Rogue). The dance with Rogue at the end also hit a spot of a Torchwood S1 episode where Jack is trapped back in time and ends up dancing with the real Captain Jack (the guy he stole his name from who he knows is about to die on a mission). I've been missing the Doctor in the last two episodes, so for me an adventure with lower stakes where the Doctor appears to have a lot of fun is just hitting the right spots for me.
The villains of the story were very camp but I didn't mind them for the first half of the story. It ruined it when they just stayed in bird form - arguably, it defeated the point of what they wanted to do which was cosplaying (LARPing, actually). I loved the chemistry between Gatwa and Groff. The only reason I don't agree with your complaint is because this wasn't "love". This was attraction. They met, they were attracted to one another, they had a heartfelt conversation, and they kissed one another. That's it really. There were no sweeping declarations of love or grand gestures. Yes, this is romance but I saw it as a connection they shared, not a love. And I think that's alright personally.
I loved the whole episode, solid 10/10! This was the romance episode and it fits the genre perfectly. Also, Richard E. Grant. Maybe canon or maybe The Great Intelligence ...
I personally really liked this episode but the ending is confusing. I also like seeing Capaldi and Smith again even if it's weird holograms. Can't wait for the bowlestrek reaction. Mf is going to pop so many blood vessels.
I'd rather watch slitheen episodes, fear her or love and monsters than this crap What a load of rubbish Also the whole thing with rougue seems like a whole copy paste on when we first meet captain jack hardness in empty child just without the wokery romance Give me farting aliens over this anyday!!! Or the drawing monster isolus from fear her At least they were a threat!!!! These villians seen to be a bunch wusses running around for Cos play Jeez give me a break This is what doctor who has became now
Personally I disagree with you mate. I think Space Babies was the bad one, and honestly I think this is the best one yet. I honestly cried when the doctor and rogue where dancing.
@@TheZodiacz fun fact mate blink couldn’t even hit 7 million after consolidated viewership yet it’s regarded by mane as one of the best stories in new who
@@TheZodiaczratings for literally everything is down because people just don't watch that much tv anymore. Despite this, Doctor Who has been consistent near the top charting shows each week
I've agreed with all your reactions so far this series but not this one. It seemed like you were already set up to dislike the episode before it started. To be honest, I didn't expect much because I have no interest in Bridgerton but this was a really solid monster of the week episode.
Madame de Pompadour was someone the Doctor already had a lot of admiration for and she immediately made a move onto him which made him slowly fancy her throughout the episode. It also was a great way of showing the jealousy side with Rose. This episode was just really weird and it’s genuinely not the fact that they were gay, Captain Jack was gay and he’s my favourite character ever. This episode just felt very forced with the romance. Don’t even get me started about “we’re gonna cosplay this planet to death” that alone is the worst line in the show’s history
I found it pretty good, I'd give it a 7/10, standard mid RTD-era episode. I was hoping that Rogue would turn out to be a timelord (or even Jack Harkness in disguise? since Barrowman is unlikely to come back), but there's still potential for a reveal like that in a future episode.
I'm in a similar position with this episode - I went in with mixed expectations anyway given the Bridgerton setting, which just isn't for me subjectively, but I thought it was messy and rushed. It's the one episode this season that could've most done with being a two parter. If they wanted a romance plotline for the Doctor it needed significantly more time to stew and make believable, and it would have given them space to ease into the monster reveal more.
Fifteen found him attractive, but I don't think he was in love. Also, the kiss was romantic but it was also so Rogue could get the trigger. I also don't think the Doctor would hold the whole "killing" thing against Rogue because Rogue was trying to do his job and didnt know better. If I were Rogue I would have done the same thing and wouldn't have believed the Doctor at first either. You're acting like the Doctor should hold that against him, as if Rogue was intentionally trying to kill a Time Lord. Lastly, the trap could fit six max. So once Rogue got onto it, someone was able to exit since the number of people exceeded the limit. Rogue shoved Ruby so nobody else would exit.
Hello my Duke, here are my thoughts. I don't mind the Doctor getting romantic with someone, but it was very forced. If the series was longer and Rogue became a part time companion to build it up then it would have worked better. The script was also really silly "we will cosplay this planet to death" was a perfect example. I'm also sort of losing it for Ncuti's Doctor, he's a great actor but I have absolutely no idea who this Doctor is supposed to be, and we only have two episodes left. Bad form all round this week. The cast are doing their best, but I'm losing interest.
It wasnt good there either. We all know the doctor can fall in love, he has a grand daughter in the original. But the entirety of the original run portrayed him as an asexual character that wasnt into all that nonsense and was all about exploring the galaxy in a family friendly show. So when Russel original came back he started to add this type of stuff into the doctors character, it wasnt so bad as for the most part nothing really happened. But with this newer season hes turend him far too human and made this stuff the forefront of his character. it doesnt work
I really liked this episode but totally respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from! Sorry about all the abuse you've been getting from misinformed people calling you out for opinions you don't hold. It's not on. People are allowed to dislike Who and not be phobes! Think we all had a few problems with the Chibnall era after all, and it wasn't because of Jodie Whittaker.
On the point of 15 crying all the time - I think there may be something behind that. It started in the Christmas episode when he asked Carla "why are you crying", and she then asks why is he. At that point he travels back to when Ruby is left at the church and a distant encounter with her 'mother'. I think he is crying for some reason that resonates back on him through time and from that encounter. I may be wrong 🤷🏼♂️ Regarding this episode, I felt your reaction was a bit harsh. I don't think this is a bad episode. I enjoyed a fair bit about this episode. To me, it's very believable to have an instant attraction to someone, and the Doctor would clearly see the signs of a somewhat 'broken' person and feel a connection. People kiss in a nightclub after 5 mins, so the kiss didn't bother me either (comments that the Doctor should be asexual - why? He had children, right?). However, I appreciate romance stories for the Doctor are not everyone's cuppa. The cosplaying bird aliens were fine - an average creation right out of 2005-2009. The 'twist' with Ruby actually being herself was a bit clunky as no one would have really believed it. Overall, I felt it was a perfectly decent and serviceable pre-finale episode. AND, Bowlstrek may have popped a few veins, the daft plank!
i really liked this episode! it felt like a classic who episode, actually quite similar to girl in the fireplace regarding this fast paced whirlwind romance that's doomed. i might be biased as i quite like jonathan groff as an actor but i hope we get to see more of him in the future (and he's stated he would be willing to come back whenever rtd calls him) and expand on their relationship as i thought the chemistry between jonathan and ncuti was amazing! i also loved the design of the monsters, i know some people might find them quite comical but there were actually moments they were quite creepy for me. i wouldn't say it's up there with boom and 73 yards for me but definitely one of my faves from the entire season.
@@HOTD108_ what I mean is when in let's go Hitler episode when Melody was shot the doctor was saying you stay alive and I'll marry get your parents on the phone
someone already brought this up below, but the doctor altered the Triangle Trap Thingie so that it could capture more people. he upped it to 6 people. rogue jumping in to take ruby off would have tipped its capacity over its maximum. something else i dont think was mentioned was that rogue told the doctor when he had him trapped earlier that he couldn't hack it w/ the sonic until it was fully charged. so we have the max persons & the fact that it can't necessarily be toyed with unless it's fully charged. both of those things were set up before rogue's little trick. it's a good enough excuse for me 😅 last thing-the whole doctor/rogue romance fling thing? i get that it feels kind of forced (rushed at the very least). but we're only getting 8 episodes for this season. criminally short, imo. they're bound to pull things that feel rushed/forced/underbaked-yet-quite-overt. we just simply don't have enough TIME to let things cook the way they ought to....which sucks!
I’m going to put this here to make you aware. If you’re going to call me homophobic because I’m not buying the romance, respectfully do some fact checking on my content first. Second of all, you can compare doctors other romances before that doesn’t mean I have bought into all the previous ones either. I was very much against River and the Doctor. This is a reaction for THIS episode. If rogue and the Doctor are explored in the future then happy days. But I wasn’t impressed with the poor story in this episode and a rushed romance that by the way, put Ruby (the one doctor promised he’d keep safe) in severe danger. Thanks 👍🏻
I understand your criticism but what will make a person's reaction to this look homophobic is how it would almost sounds like you seem to over-stress on something that is not new to the show and the time you show such reaction happens to be a same-sex romance, whatever the things that can be criticised may be. And, my personal view on their relationship is that yea sure it was kinda rushed but comparing to "The Doctor spends time with Madame de Pompadour " we must remember that for the Doctor it also happened on the same day. And that's when it's appropriate to praise the writing though I do not find this one that bad either, however "Girl in the Fireplace" was convincing to the viewers because the girl's timeline made it look like a very slow and natural relationship while for the doctor, it's not even a day. Also, yes 11th and River to the point that they got married did not really have a very passionate chemistry but rather that of a close friend that even almost felt more distant than the one that the Doctor had with Amy. But yea I get what you mean, but also, again, it's the unusual way we'd visibly react to queer stories unlike how we sometimes don't really see a very visible criticism on or how we just ignoring a bad straight romance if not we rather literally praise it that makes us look hypocritical. Like, we do not often see someone who particularly stresses on River and the Doctor's relationship even if they don't like it.
I've been gay forever and I had the EXACT SAME ISSUES with this episode. As a matter of fact, I hate "The Girl in the Fireplace" for the EXACT SAME REASONS. Your critiques are valid, not homophobic. Anyone who says otherwise is just as bad as the anti-woke idiots, and they should take a step back and get some perspective.
Please question yourself if you have reacted the same when this would have happend all with a female character. Just be honest, you would not. May be you even would have given applause to the Doctor being that quick by "making that girl clear"...that is the thing in normalization. We have not reach that spot as long there are differences made in showing hetero- and homo(b)romances. And just with a small tiny wink, it is said, we, who are fine with MtM attraction, shall be quite quick in bonding and getting deep! 🙃 So all fine with me in this what is between Rouge and The Doctor.
I've been online since the mid-1970s. (Really. See the PLATO project.) Saying you're not homophobic will increase the attacks saying that you are homophobic. That's just how brains work.
Honestly your takes are fair, its clearly a personal opinion that the episode didnt resonate with you and thats completely fair, It's probably too late but i do hope you dont get too much hate or negativity form this one, as even when someone doesnt like an episode, i find it interesting to watch their reviews to see a completely different take :)
In every doctor who season, there’s always one episode that you can tell isn’t anything amazing, and that’s fine because it doesn’t have to be, I get it’s doctor who’s revival so we’re expecting amazing all the time, but we’ve been graced with two amazing episodes in a row, so getting a decent one in comparison makes this one look trash with only ok writing and a plot that seems insignificant in comparison Edit: I know Rogue and the doctors relationship was a bit rushed, would of felt a little better if there were 13 episodes and we could see them develop feelings for each other, but I felt their chemistry with each other was another to sell their relationship to me ALSO THERE IS NO F**KING WAY THAT IS WORSE THAN SPACE BABIES, THAT EPISODE IS THE “FEAR HER” or “DINOSAUR ON A SPACESHIP” OF THIS SEASON
Man I'm feelin so mixed. The relationship was so rushed and felt only built on attraction which feels undoctory. I did like Doc and Rogue together in the latter half. Monsters fresh from the rejection bin of muppets parts.
He's been attracted to multiple people very quickly throughout the new series. 9 acknowledged Adam was attractive, then there were a lot of moments between him and Jack. Rose, Madame de Pompadure, River Song (Who also tried to kill him at first), Harry Houdini implied too...
okay? That's great, doesn't change what I've said about the episode. If the Doctor And rogue find each other in the future and its expanded on in the future then happy days.
for an explanation of the resolution, the doctor coded the trap thingy to have a max capacity of 6, so when rouge jumped on it, the trapped reached over max capacity and i assume stop working until rouge pushed ruby off, but it was still pretty lousy ill admit
I agree with you 😊 I walked away not liking the episode. Not a fan of period dramas so that didn't help matters. There were moments that were good and I wouldn't say it was a bad episode just a not for me episode. The biggest plus for me in this is the woke brigade are going to be going mental over the kiss and that amuses me greatly. The kiss didn't bother me just the whole set up felt off, the whole episode felt off and I am hoping my running theory is correct and this is something like a tv show within a tv show or similar. I would rate Space Babies above this one for ME PERSONALLY.
I'm so glad someone else is willing to say the emperor has no clothes as regards this episode. Mind you, I enjoyed the episode overall, but the "owl" aliens were simply absurd and not in the least bit scary, and The Doctor cried AGAIN!!!!!! The kiss between The Doctor and Rogue didn't bother me in the slightest, although I personally believe The Doctor should remain non-sexual. The script was clever, and I really liked the whole "cosplay" element of the story, and loved having the Richard Grant Shalka Doctor finally made canon, and overall I really enjoyed the episode, but I think it was not a strong episode, and included elements which were unnecessary and could alienate the fandom even more. And please, FOR GOD'S SAKE, don't have The Doctor cry anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I liked elements of it, very much a standard episode. But yeah the romance was way too rushed and it made it hard to care about their separation at the end. Imagine it Rogue had been with us since episode 1, would’ve been much more effective.
I didn't expect much going into the episode. I watched the preview last week, saw the bird people, and thought, "okay, filler episode incoming." It was definitely that. I'm more into Who when it's conceptual and Moffatesque, and we've had those in spades in S14. Even Space Babies had an interesting premise and decent social commentary, even if some people didn't like the execution (I didn't mind it). So we were bound to hit some filler eventually. One interesting thing to note was RTD spoke to Moffat in an Unleashed episode for this series and said, "you used to be able to get away with a monster in a warehouse, but that's not enough anymore." This episode was a monster in a warehouse. Cosplaying aliens was more of a gag than a premise. Two men dancing together could be interesting social commentary, but it falls slightly flat in this instance because it's not pointing the finger at anyone. No one is culpable (as a side note, culpability is the reason why 'Dot and Bubble' has a stronger anti-racism message than 'Rosa', IMO). And when you design the episode to look like Bridgerton, which is already a more diverse and progressive version of that period of history, two men dancing doesn't have the same kind of weight to it than if they'd have played the time period straight. No pun intended. 🤣 That being said, as a filler episode, it was a decent one. We've had some pretty shite filler episodes, and it was definitely no 'Love and Monsters'. It was good to see the Doctor in action for once, as one of my only criticisms of S14 is that we haven't seen enough of him. I'm interested to see where they go with the character of Rogue. Is he somewhat related to Captain Jack? There's some mystery surrounding him. I thought the romance with him with the Doctor was okay, I'll buy it, but it needs time to develop, which it likely will because we will probably see the character again. There's always the chance we have a romance on the same level as the Doctor and River, but I feel we won't have our answer until RTD finishes his second tenure as showrunner. S14 is probably one of the top 3 NuWho series overall, but will 'Rogue' be one I watch again in years to come? Probably not.
as a bisexual doctor who fan, imma be honest this episode was kinda fire. Idk i feel like our perspective on relationships is different i guess, and the Doctor is essentially a different person each regeneration so having a slightly horny gay sassy doctor im fine with. At least its not Jodie's relationship
This was the big surprise change in Doctor Who's life. I'm sorry RTD telegraphed this from the beginning, so this did not come as a surprise to anyone. The plot has always been better when sex tension in either form was kept as a minimum and the Doctor presented himself as a caring, but asexual individual whose concern for an individual character was not based solely on the physical, again in either form, but presented as portrayed when Rogue stated the need to kill the antagonists, and the Doctor strongly disagreed, coming up with the alternative of trapping them in a dimension they could never return from. This is the Doctor in his purest form and is seldom seen, if at all in this new incarnation of the Doctor. The Doctor again is not the hero of the story, but seems to just stumble his way through the events while always luckily escaping by means not of his doing. This is the strongest argument for the notion of poor writing while the emphasis was on the Surprise "Changes his life?" aspect of the storyline
It felt like they were trying too hard to recapture Captain Jack Harkness, the character and also the Torchwood episode in a way. Man out of his time in an anachronistic setting, making moves on another character also not of the time period. The whole mix up with the psychic paper and flirting between the characters as well as the scandalous (for the time) dance between two people of the same gender. But the biggest flaw of this episode was it was moving the relationship between the Doctor and Rogue way too fast.
One of the best episodes of Who I've seen in a longggg time. Romance didn't feel rushed - pretty gay accurate etc. Slightly baffled that you think it was so bad lmaoo, its SO RTD1.
I really enjoy your reviews. While I personally loved this episode, this video showed you reacting well to the best parts, and reacting appropriately to the bad parts. Really adds to your authenticity as a content creator imo
They weren't in love. Rogue was dealing with the death of their fiancé and the Doctor about the possibility of loosing Ruby. It was a kiss that came from all the sexual tension they shared and the stress of the moment. It's very common in high adrenaline situations.
So much of the episode is reliant on us believing the trap cannot be disabled because the world will be destroyed by the aliens. But we are only told they are too dangerous to let go, and never once in the episode did they feel a threat. So the ending just felt so messy to me. And, as you say, it seemed easy enough to push Ruby off the trap. If it was an easy transfer of matter, surely they could just get in the Tardis and find some sort of matter to swap her with. And it was so convenient no more than 6 aliens existed, otherwise the trap would have failed. That was a reveal I expected based on the dialogue emphasising the trap could only hold 6. And I also expected it, because RTD made a point to keep count of the aliens - which did not matter in the end, plus I don’t believe the episode showed who all were aliens until they transformed - you couldn’t work it out yourself, and it didn’t matter in the end. The marketing also ruined this episode so much. It could have been advertised as a murder mystery. But instead they revealed the alien design, the fact there are many of them, who the aliens were disguised as, and that Ruby would attend the wedding at the end.
I felt like the pacing was off in this one a wee bit. The threat didn't really mesh well with the development of The Doctor and Rogue's relationship. It felt like each story was temporarily pausing so the other could proceed. Seeing The Doctor kiss a man, and having it not be one sided like Captain Jack kissing 9, was pretty excellent. I just wish it didn't feel like that was the only reason for the episode to exist and everything else that happened was essentially disposable.
I heavily disagree! I loved this episode, so much so I think this episode is my favourite thus far and I thought the romance between the Doctor and Rogue was wonderfully done, I think with stuff like this you run the risk of it feeling "rushed" but I absolutely bought that they would fall for each other and a big part of that is the chemistry and how similar the Doctor and Rogue are even if they take different approaches! Loved it! Maybe a rewatch might help for you with this one? Also with Jon Pertwee's face that was taken from Dimensions in Time which means, yes it is canon! Richard E Grant is canon too, that's cute!
for me this was like a fun filler, and I've been missing those, despite loving all the bangers from this era. I've been loving this season, and i'm very glad that FINALLY it is getting more explicit with its queer themes and characters. i hope that continues. sometimes as a queer person it is good to watch something light and frivolous than a heavy-handed story about the bad stuff that happens to us... i dont know. but i really dont think this episode was bad!
This story didn't grip me at all, and found it frustrating and even annoying at times. That's a real shame, because I've been enjoying the RTD2 era so far, including Space Babies (which I actually liked).
i personally dont enjoy any dr romances between companion or otherwise thays why rose was my least fav and so is river song idk why it just doesnt feel right. i liked rogue as a character but tbey didnt have enough time together for me to make me get emotional about his sendoff really imo i enjoyed the ncutis performance tho especially whej he became more serious it was definitely a highlight
I think going into the episode thinking it’s supposed to be the bad one, which if I’m honest I’ve seen nobody insinuate that (that seemed to be Dot & Bubble). If you go into an episode thinking it’s going to be shit then chances are your opinion isn’t going to change. It was a pretty good episode.
The aliens were interesting. Don't care for Bridgerton. See what the next season will have. If old enemies will return. Ncuti needs to stay on. If in the future Jonathan is available. Maybe he will be back. Maybe it won't happen.
Story wasn’t great but I kinda liked the dynamic between The Doctor and Rogue have at the moment Didn’t like Yaz and Thirteen This is better tho Excited to see more of these two 👀
@@DeusLucifer I think it's a bit harsh to call it "dumb writing" but I do think they just misunderstood who The Doctor is. He isn't someone to fall in love simply based on their appearance but also on their personality, Rouge tried to kill The Doctor and he was still flirting, just didn't sit right with me. These are 2 new writers who have never written for Doctor Who before, and it is unfortunately obvious to me
I’m so glad you didn’t like this. I struggled SOOO much with this episode. Super mid in my opinion. Thankfully it’s one of only a couple mid episodes this season so far imo.
i feel like they were going "ah yes dr and jack was romantic coded, so this character will woo the doctor" but im just like... idk.... its cute, its gay, its sweet, but its not heart wrenching ive only known rogue for 40 minutes so theres no attachment
Totally agree with you - that was just a bad episode. I was really surprised so many people like it. I ignore all the 'anti woke' channels as it's just endless poison there, but equally there has to be some objectivity. The basic story was interesting, but the aliens were poor, the Bridgerton references tiresome and the romance was forced. I fully accept forgiving Rogue trying to kill him, but to believe the Doctor forged such a deep relationship with such a one dimensional character in that space of time - No. It did though give a reason for the Doctor to cry again, now carrying less weight each time. Roll on next week and hopefully a great finale.
it was like a 6.5 for me, the monsters were sooo bad looking (the blue whiskers thing im looking at you), the instrumentals were nice, bad guy and bad romance🔥 tbh i really enjoyed the chemistry btwn rogue and the doctor. was it kind of rushed? yes, but they made it work, like the actors pulled their of roles of so well, i want to see more of rogue asap, the banter, the humour. & yeah the doctor doesn’t usually go around falling in love with people, but astrid and reinette were a thing, so its close enough + river was literally programmed to kill him😭 oh andddd i feel like the fact that the doctor could really relate to rogue helped - another lonely traveller, who lost a loved one? which other of his love interests did he ever bond with like this? it was predictable that he’d go out saving ruby tho
I think you are a bit harsh on at least 3 of those stories, space babies was the weakest of the season for me but was still a 6-7/10 The Devils Chord is very solid story 8/10 Boom is the best episode of the series for me personally 10/10 73 Yards is the second best of the season 9/10 Dot And Bubble is fun but definitely suffered with the reduced runtime a bit short like rogue 7/10 Rogue was on par with The Devils Chord maybe slightly better 8-9/10
I entirely agree. I've enjoyed the last 3 episodes, but this one was just pure cringe. The romance was too sudden for me, the Ruby fake out felt predictable (second fake out of the series) and how was Rouge simply able to push Ruby off the transport gate was unsatisfying to imo, why didn't The Doctor think of that? What was the point in killing off Rouge he has so much wasted potential, I would have loved him to be reoccurring character, but no they killed him off the very episode he was introduced. I'm not a fan of the time period they're in either. Yeah not for me this one.
@@Futurebound_jpg I have to admit, after a few days and I've rewatched the episode twice now, it is better than I first watched it. Perhaps because after Boom, 73 Yards and Dot And Bubble my expectations were quite high. It is nice to have a more light hearted episode even though I still have quite a few issues with it. But overall I still think it's better than Space Babies lol.
@@Tortoiz07 thats cool that you gave it another shot! Im glad u were able to find some more enjoyment! I also thought space babies was lame as hell! How am i supposed to sympathize with a violent booger monster trying to scare babies? They shouldve at least made the bogeyman look like an actual creature. I would be more inclined to sympathize with a monster like the aliens from Alien than a SNOT MONSTER. I dont even like HUMANS who pick their boogies in front of me 🤣 the episode was funny up until the lackluster ending
the plot itself was cheap and i really didn't like it, but if i just look at it as a story purely for introducing rogue then it's way easier to digest lmfao The character aspects were good imo but they were really all that it had going
Thought it was a mid tier episode storywise but with some nice lines. I did actually enjoy it. I thought it was interesting that it was written by Loki writers after RTD criticised that show for virtue signalling, and they're now giving us an explicit same-sex romance. But anything after a double whammy of 73 yards and Dot and Bubble would have to be pretty special to impress. Rogue will probably return, but depending on schedule and budget, and you know that when they cast a high profile actor.
Ok at least I can rest easy knowing that the only ones who dislike it aren’t the typical “anti-woke” bowlestrek type people 😂 Yeah idk, the Doctor being in relationships has always irked me except from him and river for some reason. Plus the dialogue was all over the place, Ruby was sidelined and contributed nothing to the story apart from causing the doctor to be put in an impossible situation at the end. A whole lot of nothing happened in the middle and kinda made this episode drag a tiny bit. But I will say rogue might’ve been an interesting companion but yeh I do agree him asking to travel with him was so random and didn’t feel earned. 5/10.
I agree with 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble Space babies - 7/10 The Devils Chord - 8/10 Boom - 10/10 73 Yards - 9/10 Dot And Bubble - 7/10 Rogue - 9/10 potentially 8/10 after another watch
This episode was definitely my least favorite of the season so far. Wish I was enjoying this season more, honestly. I was excited for Ncuti and so far, I've been fairly unenthused with the season outside of a few moments and ideas here and there.
There were some fun things in this epside. But yeah I mostly felt the same. I liked it more than Space Babies still. But the 'romance' felt so unearned.
@ridaa.f_ wrote this: "I actually believe Rogue met 14 and travelled with him, which is why he instantly removed his finger off the trigger when he saw tennant's face, and offered little to no explanation when talking about losing that person. It's like RTD does river song. " Maybe Rogue IS Jack Harkness who already loved the Doctor and their hearts already knew each other.
this episode really did not work for me either i found the story itself pretty boring and the 'love interest' really didn't work for me because rogue and the doctor really didn't seem 'in love' they just seemed rly fucking horny for each other felt like very strong one handed moffat writing imo.
your complaints are too minor to even consider this episode as bad lol. the story is wrapped up nicely, everything comes full circle, the day is saved, the scenes are fun to watch, and it gave the audience a reason to look forward to seeing rogue again😁
Their not in love, their in puppy love, the honeymoon and this is a different doctor, one without the baggage of the war and eternal loss. He still hurts, but is opening himself up, that includes to live again. He has grieved his planet, he has grieved River. He's moving on. And Bridgerton is the hottest property around right now. I know stoner surfer dudes who are INVESTED in the going ons of the Ton, it's that popular.
This episode was my least favourite so far. The flirty Doctor and the romance with Rogue was okay, but felt way too rushed. But what really bored me was the whole Bridgerton setting, so overrated and cliche. Would have been a better story set in 1913 or 2013. This Period piece needed a tampon to stop my eyes, ears and brain from bleeding.
Completely agree, loved the season otherwise but this one felt off..too rushed and forced? I wasn't buying Rogue and the Doctor's relationship. Onwards with next week though!
Big time RTD fan here, also wasn't too into this episode and wanted to lend my thoughts/support to back you up. For me personally, it's important to witness a relationship grow over time (even just across a couple of episodes!) so that I as a viewer feel invested in it. While I really liked certain aspects of Rogue, I think what's tough to believe is that he would so quickly hit several companion milestones with the Doctor across such a short period of time. We've got seeing the TARDIS interior, being invited to travel with him, and kissing him within a really short duration. This was also directly following a scene where Rogue did contemplate killing him (which you brought up repeatedly). That's where it was tough for me to invest in and felt rushed. If we had at least watched their relationship grow across a two-part episode arc and witnessed their dynamic change from enemies to lovers across more time, I think I would feel differently. Additionally, I feel the same way about the Madame de Pompadour episode and remember being surprised when initially watching it that Ten would leave Rose, Mickey, and the TARDIS behind for someone he met very recently. *This all being said, kudos to everyone who really enjoyed this episode! I'm glad we're all able to feel passionately about various aspects of this show
Exactly What you said is the exact point I was trying to get across! THANK YOU!!
@@DannyTDW in the girl in the fireplace episode the doctor fell in love in like an hour and it was just as fast as this one yet no one complained about it 🙄 WONDER WHY
@@Justhppy2behere Well obviously I can’t speak on behalf of all others but that episode as well is one of my least-favorites ever.
The answer to your conundrum is simple. Rogue was able to knock Rose off the trap because for a brief moment that only the Doctor and Rogue knew about it was not trapping anyone as the capacity of 6 was exceeded. Rogue shoved Rose off immediately which engaged the trap once again before any of the Chuldur could figure it out and step off the trap. The foreshadowing of this happened when the Doctor was telling Rogue, "max of 6 and no more," earlier in the episode. The quick-thinker Rogue is saved Ruby from the trap.
Rose?
@aziraphaleangel
He must have been auto correcting Ruby to Rose a lot or something.
@@aziraphaleangel LOL I meant Ruby. The other R. I fixed it. lol
10 fell in love with Madame De Pompadour when he saw her all grown up and even snogged her it’s no different to this, I don’t see your complaints with this story
the doctor had a lot of romances of 1 episode, people just conveniently forget lol
as i said in the video, Madame De pompadour didn't try to kill the doctor before they fell in love. Also in that episode where Time is messed up, The doctor spends a lot of time with Madame de pompadour before returning and checking in on rose. So it is different. all be it in the space of one episode we know they spent time together. The Doctor offering a bounty hunter to become his companion after literally 20 minutes is ridiculous.
@@dtdwreactsLots of people try to kill the Doctor who he becomes friends with, including someone he ends up marrying. If you rewatch Girl in the Fireplace, you'll actually see that the timespan difference between these two episodes is actually not that much from the Doctor's perspective. The biggest dark spot we have is a big party he attended, so a couple of hours, maximum. Other than that, this episode and that one quite easily can take place over the same span of around 2-3 hours from the Doctor's perspective, I don't find it hard to imagine him falling for someone within that time frame. He has been sold on companions quicker in the past.
It's also pretty apparent that in the scene in the TARDIS 20 minutes in that you seem to be talking about, he is not actually sold on Rogue as a companion yet. There is nothing definite.
I do think you generally find a lot more to complain about in this show than most people tbh, but that's why I watch your channel so like... I'm not complaining I guess 💀
It’s not really comparable, Reinette was a one off character and it was more her falling for the Doctor because she knew him her whole life on and off, with the Doctor just sort of falling for her in response. Here the Doctor falls in love with Rogue almost instantly because he’s attractive and they want us to have this big moment at the end to look forward to his inevitable return and I just don’t buy it.
No no no, do not compare this to the Tenth Doctor and madame de pompadour
That's completely different,
Madame de pompadour lunged herself onto the doctor, she literally made the first move onto him backing up against the fireplace wall
He didnt stand there like the 15th doctor did (in this episode) in the tardis and look into each others eyes and lean in towards each other (about to kiss) for 30 secs!!!
Also madamme didn't try and kill him
The doctor has fallen for people quick before. Whirlwind romances are a thing they happen all the time. I knew i loved my wife the day i met her I see this as no different.
I dunno, I quite liked this story. If Rogue was some random guy, I think the romance would be a lot more out of place and annoying, but Rogue having such a personal life like the Doctor, and losing people he cared for, it made their connection much more personal and easy to connecr with. I never liked the Doctors romances with humans, but it always felt more organic with characters like River, because they had an honest connection and similar complex life they could connect over. Rogue is the Doctor like how he was in 2005, even his ship is very similar to the scrapiness of 9s Tardis. 9 met Rose and made him better, Rogue met 15 and made him better.
I think all the Bridgerton references is because they also have the choreographer of bridgerton doing it so it’s like a double edged gag line
I actually like this episode a lot, 8/10 for me. The chemistry between the Doctor and Rogue was fantastic and the actors did a great job making the romance believable. The villains were a bit weaker and the stakes were not that high but it fitted the tone of the episode.
The reason for the romance between the Doctor and Rogue is simple: The Doctor just has charm. All their companions can attest to that.
About Ruby, because the cage was limited to only 6 people, when 7 people are in it, it temporarily disables the cage, like an overweight lift. Thats how Ruby was able to be pushed off by Rogue.
Finally, someone with some common sense, I think this guy has already watched the episode before he recorded his “reaction” notice how he liked the episodes that a majority of people didn’t but hates the one that a majority of people really like, it seems like a forced reaction
@@DoctorWhoManiaProductions23
Nah, I think you're projecting a little bit there. That aside, I'd argue the episode didn't do a very good job at setting up how the trap worked prior to the ending, so it's a fair criticism.
I’ve agreed with you on every episode this series…but not this time this was a good episode
I mean, that’s fair enough 😃
I loved this episode ❤
I liked it
Same
It and Devil’s Chord have been the only episodes in this season I really didn’t like. And this was even worse
i really loved this one, and i hope maybe on a rewatch you’ll find more to enjoy!
One of the best episodes of the series so far. Had everything a Doctor Who episode should have.
You must be joking
@@Gibson1976ukso your net letting him like it
I thought this episode was entertaining filler before the finale. I think the logic for the end was that the triangle thing holds max 6 people so when rogue jumps on it deactivates for a split second, and when he shoves ruby off it, it turns back on
Really liked the episode, a "standard" Who episode, the first this season. Ruby's b-plot wasn't much to write home about; felt a bit forced.
The flirting was great, the chemistry strong. I didn't read it as "I love him now" more like infatuation.
Made me think what the guy in "Blink" said: "Life is short and you are hot." I mean yeah, The Doctor is basically immortal, but the sentiment stands.
The Doctor has a track record for instant fascination / thinking people are amazing. This isn't a stretch.
I can tell that bowelstrek going to have a fit seeing the doctor and Rogue's relationship lol. This episode was pretty good, solid 7 for me and 5th fave (look the other episodes are just too good).
Edit: Yeah I get you weren't too in it. It was werid he suddenly loved Rogue but i actually thought that was the case so i wasmt too shocked when i saw it. For me I enjoyed it but not as good as the other episodes in the series (apart from space babies, that still bottom). Ngl I kinda forgot about earrings so I was shocked about her "dying". Overall the episode was good but nothing amazing, kinda like space babies.
River song literally made several attempts on the doctors life. I love rogue and I hope their relationship with the doctor is built on in future series’.
Exactly...
I hope so too! That way we can get it down to 1 million overnight and then get this travesty cancelled 😂
River only does that later on. And it's not like the Doctor fell in love with River in one episode. Hell, not even the 2nd episode since it was a two parter. NOT even the two parter after that NOR the one after that. It was a long build up
The Doctor has a type. I’m digging the romance tbh. A female love interest and now a male one.
He does. Man or woman, they all have very similar characteristics.
When Rogue kissed the Doctor, I genuinely thought it was to distract him long enough to press the button and send Ruby away with the Chuldurs, but I realise that would have been quite evil lol (and of course Ruby is in the next episodes so obviously that wasn't going to happen). But I did kind of want a big betrayal moment haha
The reason ruby could be pushed off the trap is bc earlier the doc set the max to 6 and at the time there were 6, so when rogue stepped in everyone could move for a moment and he then pushed ruby out replacing her and setting it back to six so everyone was stuck again
This episode might actually kill Bowelstrek
He’s gonna go into cardiac arrest and I can’t wait for DTDW to react to him
The 6 minute video won't even reach the kiss scene, watch.
@@Smabbott 🤫
DOCTOR GAY THEN TAKES HIS GAY BOYFRIEND AND DANCES ALL OVER THE GRAVE OF THIS ONCE BELOVED SCI-FI SHOW
Well, I suppose it could have been worse. I don’t know how. Tongues!
For me, this one was so much fun. They are trying to do a "Captain Jack 2.0" sort of thing with Rogue. I saw a comment somewhere pointing out that this was like Empty child/Doctor Dances with the roles revered (in that one, Jack flirts with Rose, in this one Doc 15 flirts with Rogue). The dance with Rogue at the end also hit a spot of a Torchwood S1 episode where Jack is trapped back in time and ends up dancing with the real Captain Jack (the guy he stole his name from who he knows is about to die on a mission).
I've been missing the Doctor in the last two episodes, so for me an adventure with lower stakes where the Doctor appears to have a lot of fun is just hitting the right spots for me.
The villains of the story were very camp but I didn't mind them for the first half of the story. It ruined it when they just stayed in bird form - arguably, it defeated the point of what they wanted to do which was cosplaying (LARPing, actually).
I loved the chemistry between Gatwa and Groff. The only reason I don't agree with your complaint is because this wasn't "love". This was attraction. They met, they were attracted to one another, they had a heartfelt conversation, and they kissed one another. That's it really. There were no sweeping declarations of love or grand gestures. Yes, this is romance but I saw it as a connection they shared, not a love. And I think that's alright personally.
Console yourself in knowing that Bowlestrek will be so apoplectic that only dogs will hear him
DTDW gotta get a good night's rest before watching Doccy Who
I wish people would stop hating on this episode. I loved the romance between Rogue and the Doctor.
I loved the whole episode, solid 10/10! This was the romance episode and it fits the genre perfectly. Also, Richard E. Grant. Maybe canon or maybe The Great Intelligence ...
bro voicemod is so trippy when you can hear yourself in the other voice lol
Is it just me or does Rouge sound exactly like Captain Jack? Like its lacking the same energy but i swear they have insanely similar voices
I personally really liked this episode but the ending is confusing. I also like seeing Capaldi and Smith again even if it's weird holograms.
Can't wait for the bowlestrek reaction. Mf is going to pop so many blood vessels.
What confused you about it?
Hows it confusing
I'd rather watch slitheen episodes, fear her or love and monsters than this crap
What a load of rubbish
Also the whole thing with rougue seems like a whole copy paste on when we first meet captain jack hardness in empty child just without the wokery romance
Give me farting aliens over this anyday!!! Or the drawing monster isolus from fear her
At least they were a threat!!!!
These villians seen to be a bunch wusses running around for Cos play
Jeez give me a break
This is what doctor who has became now
@@littleredruriRichard E. Grant's face.
@@OmniscientartistDon't act like Richard E. Grant's inclusion made sense to you lol
Anger is sadness that had no where to go.
Personally I disagree with you mate. I think Space Babies was the bad one, and honestly I think this is the best one yet. I honestly cried when the doctor and rogue where dancing.
Gay
this whole season is crap! the ratings don't lie.
I agree with you! I could NOT sympathize with the snot monster 😂 this episode was hilarious tho, u just cant take it seriously.
@@TheZodiacz fun fact mate blink couldn’t even hit 7 million after consolidated viewership yet it’s regarded by mane as one of the best stories in new who
@@TheZodiaczratings for literally everything is down because people just don't watch that much tv anymore. Despite this, Doctor Who has been consistent near the top charting shows each week
I've agreed with all your reactions so far this series but not this one. It seemed like you were already set up to dislike the episode before it started. To be honest, I didn't expect much because I have no interest in Bridgerton but this was a really solid monster of the week episode.
Madame de Pompadour was someone the Doctor already had a lot of admiration for and she immediately made a move onto him which made him slowly fancy her throughout the episode. It also was a great way of showing the jealousy side with Rose. This episode was just really weird and it’s genuinely not the fact that they were gay, Captain Jack was gay and he’s my favourite character ever. This episode just felt very forced with the romance. Don’t even get me started about “we’re gonna cosplay this planet to death” that alone is the worst line in the show’s history
I thought that line was hilarious! And Varma's delivery was superb.
And SHE WAS A CHILD FIVE MINUTES AGO FROM THEIR POV 😊 thanks for confirming that you rather have pedophilic kiss rather than gay one
I found it pretty good, I'd give it a 7/10, standard mid RTD-era episode. I was hoping that Rogue would turn out to be a timelord (or even Jack Harkness in disguise? since Barrowman is unlikely to come back), but there's still potential for a reveal like that in a future episode.
I'm in a similar position with this episode - I went in with mixed expectations anyway given the Bridgerton setting, which just isn't for me subjectively, but I thought it was messy and rushed. It's the one episode this season that could've most done with being a two parter. If they wanted a romance plotline for the Doctor it needed significantly more time to stew and make believable, and it would have given them space to ease into the monster reveal more.
Best intro ever 😂😂😂
Fifteen found him attractive, but I don't think he was in love. Also, the kiss was romantic but it was also so Rogue could get the trigger.
I also don't think the Doctor would hold the whole "killing" thing against Rogue because Rogue was trying to do his job and didnt know better. If I were Rogue I would have done the same thing and wouldn't have believed the Doctor at first either. You're acting like the Doctor should hold that against him, as if Rogue was intentionally trying to kill a Time Lord.
Lastly, the trap could fit six max. So once Rogue got onto it, someone was able to exit since the number of people exceeded the limit. Rogue shoved Ruby so nobody else would exit.
Hello my Duke, here are my thoughts. I don't mind the Doctor getting romantic with someone, but it was very forced. If the series was longer and Rogue became a part time companion to build it up then it would have worked better. The script was also really silly "we will cosplay this planet to death" was a perfect example. I'm also sort of losing it for Ncuti's Doctor, he's a great actor but I have absolutely no idea who this Doctor is supposed to be, and we only have two episodes left. Bad form all round this week. The cast are doing their best, but I'm losing interest.
Eleven had river, ten had rose and pompadour. twelve also river. 13 and yaz .... well... so the doctor can fell in love.
I didn’t say the doctor can’t fall in love..
If you personally liked the episode, that's fine, but c'mon bro you know damn well that wasn't the argument being made here.
It wasnt good there either. We all know the doctor can fall in love, he has a grand daughter in the original. But the entirety of the original run portrayed him as an asexual character that wasnt into all that nonsense and was all about exploring the galaxy in a family friendly show. So when Russel original came back he started to add this type of stuff into the doctors character, it wasnt so bad as for the most part nothing really happened. But with this newer season hes turend him far too human and made this stuff the forefront of his character. it doesnt work
Abandon all romance in Doctor Who
All of it
@@charg1nmalaz0r51 you know you are just a bigot when you bring in "family friendly" in the context of something you just don't like.
I really liked this episode but totally respect your opinion and can see where you're coming from! Sorry about all the abuse you've been getting from misinformed people calling you out for opinions you don't hold. It's not on. People are allowed to dislike Who and not be phobes! Think we all had a few problems with the Chibnall era after all, and it wasn't because of Jodie Whittaker.
On the point of 15 crying all the time - I think there may be something behind that. It started in the Christmas episode when he asked Carla "why are you crying", and she then asks why is he. At that point he travels back to when Ruby is left at the church and a distant encounter with her 'mother'. I think he is crying for some reason that resonates back on him through time and from that encounter.
I may be wrong 🤷🏼♂️
Regarding this episode, I felt your reaction was a bit harsh. I don't think this is a bad episode. I enjoyed a fair bit about this episode. To me, it's very believable to have an instant attraction to someone, and the Doctor would clearly see the signs of a somewhat 'broken' person and feel a connection. People kiss in a nightclub after 5 mins, so the kiss didn't bother me either (comments that the Doctor should be asexual - why? He had children, right?). However, I appreciate romance stories for the Doctor are not everyone's cuppa.
The cosplaying bird aliens were fine - an average creation right out of 2005-2009.
The 'twist' with Ruby actually being herself was a bit clunky as no one would have really believed it.
Overall, I felt it was a perfectly decent and serviceable pre-finale episode.
AND, Bowlstrek may have popped a few veins, the daft plank!
Loved this very entertaining episode. 9 out of 10 for me.
i really liked this episode! it felt like a classic who episode, actually quite similar to girl in the fireplace regarding this fast paced whirlwind romance that's doomed. i might be biased as i quite like jonathan groff as an actor but i hope we get to see more of him in the future (and he's stated he would be willing to come back whenever rtd calls him) and expand on their relationship as i thought the chemistry between jonathan and ncuti was amazing! i also loved the design of the monsters, i know some people might find them quite comical but there were actually moments they were quite creepy for me. i wouldn't say it's up there with boom and 73 yards for me but definitely one of my faves from the entire season.
Great episode buddy, one of the best of this series. Nothing different from other stories since 2005. Maybe taking it too seriously, dunno mate 😅😊😊
This was a good episode
Well river tried to kill the doctor
But it wasn't love at first sight was it?
@@cheteyaliyanage8721 pretty sure it was they going to get married before she was going to kill him
@@RedWolf0407No?
@@HOTD108_ what I mean is when in let's go Hitler episode when Melody was shot the doctor was saying you stay alive and I'll marry get your parents on the phone
Based on his love interests, I'm starting to think the Doctor might be into dominant people lol
someone already brought this up below, but the doctor altered the Triangle Trap Thingie so that it could capture more people. he upped it to 6 people. rogue jumping in to take ruby off would have tipped its capacity over its maximum.
something else i dont think was mentioned was that rogue told the doctor when he had him trapped earlier that he couldn't hack it w/ the sonic until it was fully charged.
so we have the max persons & the fact that it can't necessarily be toyed with unless it's fully charged. both of those things were set up before rogue's little trick. it's a good enough excuse for me 😅
last thing-the whole doctor/rogue romance fling thing? i get that it feels kind of forced (rushed at the very least). but we're only getting 8 episodes for this season. criminally short, imo. they're bound to pull things that feel rushed/forced/underbaked-yet-quite-overt. we just simply don't have enough TIME to let things cook the way they ought to....which sucks!
I’m going to put this here to make you aware. If you’re going to call me homophobic because I’m not buying the romance, respectfully do some fact checking on my content first.
Second of all, you can compare doctors other romances before that doesn’t mean I have bought into all the previous ones either. I was very much against River and the Doctor. This is a reaction for THIS episode.
If rogue and the Doctor are explored in the future then happy days. But I wasn’t impressed with the poor story in this episode and a rushed romance that by the way, put Ruby (the one doctor promised he’d keep safe) in severe danger.
Thanks 👍🏻
I understand your criticism but what will make a person's reaction to this look homophobic is how it would almost sounds like you seem to over-stress on something that is not new to the show and the time you show such reaction happens to be a same-sex romance, whatever the things that can be criticised may be.
And, my personal view on their relationship is that yea sure it was kinda rushed but comparing to "The Doctor spends time with Madame de Pompadour " we must remember that for the Doctor it also happened on the same day. And that's when it's appropriate to praise the writing though I do not find this one that bad either, however "Girl in the Fireplace" was convincing to the viewers because the girl's timeline made it look like a very slow and natural relationship while for the doctor, it's not even a day.
Also, yes 11th and River to the point that they got married did not really have a very passionate chemistry but rather that of a close friend that even almost felt more distant than the one that the Doctor had with Amy.
But yea I get what you mean, but also, again, it's the unusual way we'd visibly react to queer stories unlike how we sometimes don't really see a very visible criticism on or how we just ignoring a bad straight romance if not we rather literally praise it that makes us look hypocritical. Like, we do not often see someone who particularly stresses on River and the Doctor's relationship even if they don't like it.
I've been gay forever and I had the EXACT SAME ISSUES with this episode. As a matter of fact, I hate "The Girl in the Fireplace" for the EXACT SAME REASONS.
Your critiques are valid, not homophobic. Anyone who says otherwise is just as bad as the anti-woke idiots, and they should take a step back and get some perspective.
Please question yourself if you have reacted the same when this would have happend all with a female character. Just be honest, you would not. May be you even would have given applause to the Doctor being that quick by "making that girl clear"...that is the thing in normalization. We have not reach that spot as long there are differences made in showing hetero- and homo(b)romances. And just with a small tiny wink, it is said, we, who are fine with MtM attraction, shall be quite quick in bonding and getting deep! 🙃 So all fine with me in this what is between Rouge and The Doctor.
I've been online since the mid-1970s. (Really. See the PLATO project.) Saying you're not homophobic will increase the attacks saying that you are homophobic. That's just how brains work.
Honestly your takes are fair, its clearly a personal opinion that the episode didnt resonate with you and thats completely fair, It's probably too late but i do hope you dont get too much hate or negativity form this one, as even when someone doesnt like an episode, i find it interesting to watch their reviews to see a completely different take :)
In every doctor who season, there’s always one episode that you can tell isn’t anything amazing, and that’s fine because it doesn’t have to be, I get it’s doctor who’s revival so we’re expecting amazing all the time, but we’ve been graced with two amazing episodes in a row, so getting a decent one in comparison makes this one look trash with only ok writing and a plot that seems insignificant in comparison
Edit: I know Rogue and the doctors relationship was a bit rushed, would of felt a little better if there were 13 episodes and we could see them develop feelings for each other, but I felt their chemistry with each other was another to sell their relationship to me
ALSO THERE IS NO F**KING WAY THAT IS WORSE THAN SPACE BABIES, THAT EPISODE IS THE “FEAR HER” or “DINOSAUR ON A SPACESHIP” OF THIS SEASON
You're insane for calling this episode not good.
It wasn't very good. None of this season's episodes have been good.
@donovanjd3 Dot and Bubble? Boom? 73 Yards? Really
Man I'm feelin so mixed. The relationship was so rushed and felt only built on attraction which feels undoctory. I did like Doc and Rogue together in the latter half. Monsters fresh from the rejection bin of muppets parts.
I loved this episode. It‘s actually my favorite so far 🫣
Gay
@@bursty1382 period
He's been attracted to multiple people very quickly throughout the new series. 9 acknowledged Adam was attractive, then there were a lot of moments between him and Jack. Rose, Madame de Pompadure, River Song (Who also tried to kill him at first), Harry Houdini implied too...
okay? That's great, doesn't change what I've said about the episode. If the Doctor And rogue find each other in the future and its expanded on in the future then happy days.
for an explanation of the resolution, the doctor coded the trap thingy to have a max capacity of 6, so when rouge jumped on it, the trapped reached over max capacity and i assume stop working until rouge pushed ruby off, but it was still pretty lousy ill admit
by far the best episode of the season so far
I agree with you 😊
I walked away not liking the episode. Not a fan of period dramas so that didn't help matters. There were moments that were good and I wouldn't say it was a bad episode just a not for me episode.
The biggest plus for me in this is the woke brigade are going to be going mental over the kiss and that amuses me greatly.
The kiss didn't bother me just the whole set up felt off, the whole episode felt off and I am hoping my running theory is correct and this is something like a tv show within a tv show or similar.
I would rate Space Babies above this one for ME PERSONALLY.
I'm so glad someone else is willing to say the emperor has no clothes as regards this episode. Mind you, I enjoyed the episode overall, but the "owl" aliens were simply absurd and not in the least bit scary, and The Doctor cried AGAIN!!!!!! The kiss between The Doctor and Rogue didn't bother me in the slightest, although I personally believe The Doctor should remain non-sexual. The script was clever, and I really liked the whole "cosplay" element of the story, and loved having the Richard Grant Shalka Doctor finally made canon, and overall I really enjoyed the episode, but I think it was not a strong episode, and included elements which were unnecessary and could alienate the fandom even more. And please, FOR GOD'S SAKE, don't have The Doctor cry anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I liked elements of it, very much a standard episode. But yeah the romance was way too rushed and it made it hard to care about their separation at the end. Imagine it Rogue had been with us since episode 1, would’ve been much more effective.
Yes, that is Richard E Grant. Shalka is canon!!!!!
I didn't expect much going into the episode. I watched the preview last week, saw the bird people, and thought, "okay, filler episode incoming."
It was definitely that. I'm more into Who when it's conceptual and Moffatesque, and we've had those in spades in S14. Even Space Babies had an interesting premise and decent social commentary, even if some people didn't like the execution (I didn't mind it). So we were bound to hit some filler eventually. One interesting thing to note was RTD spoke to Moffat in an Unleashed episode for this series and said, "you used to be able to get away with a monster in a warehouse, but that's not enough anymore." This episode was a monster in a warehouse. Cosplaying aliens was more of a gag than a premise.
Two men dancing together could be interesting social commentary, but it falls slightly flat in this instance because it's not pointing the finger at anyone. No one is culpable (as a side note, culpability is the reason why 'Dot and Bubble' has a stronger anti-racism message than 'Rosa', IMO). And when you design the episode to look like Bridgerton, which is already a more diverse and progressive version of that period of history, two men dancing doesn't have the same kind of weight to it than if they'd have played the time period straight. No pun intended. 🤣
That being said, as a filler episode, it was a decent one. We've had some pretty shite filler episodes, and it was definitely no 'Love and Monsters'. It was good to see the Doctor in action for once, as one of my only criticisms of S14 is that we haven't seen enough of him. I'm interested to see where they go with the character of Rogue. Is he somewhat related to Captain Jack? There's some mystery surrounding him. I thought the romance with him with the Doctor was okay, I'll buy it, but it needs time to develop, which it likely will because we will probably see the character again. There's always the chance we have a romance on the same level as the Doctor and River, but I feel we won't have our answer until RTD finishes his second tenure as showrunner.
S14 is probably one of the top 3 NuWho series overall, but will 'Rogue' be one I watch again in years to come? Probably not.
as a bisexual doctor who fan, imma be honest this episode was kinda fire.
Idk i feel like our perspective on relationships is different i guess, and the Doctor is essentially a different person each regeneration so having a slightly horny gay sassy doctor im fine with.
At least its not Jodie's relationship
This was the big surprise change in Doctor Who's life. I'm sorry RTD telegraphed this from the beginning, so this did not come as a surprise to anyone. The plot has always been better when sex tension in either form was kept as a minimum and the Doctor presented himself as a caring, but asexual individual whose concern for an individual character was not based solely on the physical, again in either form, but presented as portrayed when Rogue stated the need to kill the antagonists, and the Doctor strongly disagreed, coming up with the alternative of trapping them in a dimension they could never return from.
This is the Doctor in his purest form and is seldom seen, if at all in this new incarnation of the Doctor. The Doctor again is not the hero of the story, but seems to just stumble his way through the events while always luckily escaping by means not of his doing. This is the strongest argument for the notion of poor writing while the emphasis was on the Surprise "Changes his life?" aspect of the storyline
It felt like they were trying too hard to recapture Captain Jack Harkness, the character and also the Torchwood episode in a way. Man out of his time in an anachronistic setting, making moves on another character also not of the time period. The whole mix up with the psychic paper and flirting between the characters as well as the scandalous (for the time) dance between two people of the same gender. But the biggest flaw of this episode was it was moving the relationship between the Doctor and Rogue way too fast.
I thought it was really good. Not as good as the last 3 which were basically all time greats in my eyes, but no slouch all the same.
One of the best episodes of Who I've seen in a longggg time. Romance didn't feel rushed - pretty gay accurate etc.
Slightly baffled that you think it was so bad lmaoo, its SO RTD1.
I really enjoy your reviews. While I personally loved this episode, this video showed you reacting well to the best parts, and reacting appropriately to the bad parts. Really adds to your authenticity as a content creator imo
Wow, thank you! 😅
100%
They weren't in love. Rogue was dealing with the death of their fiancé and the Doctor about the possibility of loosing Ruby. It was a kiss that came from all the sexual tension they shared and the stress of the moment. It's very common in high adrenaline situations.
So much of the episode is reliant on us believing the trap cannot be disabled because the world will be destroyed by the aliens. But we are only told they are too dangerous to let go, and never once in the episode did they feel a threat. So the ending just felt so messy to me.
And, as you say, it seemed easy enough to push Ruby off the trap. If it was an easy transfer of matter, surely they could just get in the Tardis and find some sort of matter to swap her with.
And it was so convenient no more than 6 aliens existed, otherwise the trap would have failed. That was a reveal I expected based on the dialogue emphasising the trap could only hold 6. And I also expected it, because RTD made a point to keep count of the aliens - which did not matter in the end, plus I don’t believe the episode showed who all were aliens until they transformed - you couldn’t work it out yourself, and it didn’t matter in the end.
The marketing also ruined this episode so much. It could have been advertised as a murder mystery. But instead they revealed the alien design, the fact there are many of them, who the aliens were disguised as, and that Ruby would attend the wedding at the end.
I felt like the pacing was off in this one a wee bit. The threat didn't really mesh well with the development of The Doctor and Rogue's relationship. It felt like each story was temporarily pausing so the other could proceed. Seeing The Doctor kiss a man, and having it not be one sided like Captain Jack kissing 9, was pretty excellent. I just wish it didn't feel like that was the only reason for the episode to exist and everything else that happened was essentially disposable.
I heavily disagree! I loved this episode, so much so I think this episode is my favourite thus far and I thought the romance between the Doctor and Rogue was wonderfully done, I think with stuff like this you run the risk of it feeling "rushed" but I absolutely bought that they would fall for each other and a big part of that is the chemistry and how similar the Doctor and Rogue are even if they take different approaches! Loved it! Maybe a rewatch might help for you with this one?
Also with Jon Pertwee's face that was taken from Dimensions in Time which means, yes it is canon! Richard E Grant is canon too, that's cute!
I know you just posted this video, but I think you can guess which part I skipped to, and I just wanna say, I had the exact same reaction.
for me this was like a fun filler, and I've been missing those, despite loving all the bangers from this era. I've been loving this season, and i'm very glad that FINALLY it is getting more explicit with its queer themes and characters. i hope that continues.
sometimes as a queer person it is good to watch something light and frivolous than a heavy-handed story about the bad stuff that happens to us... i dont know. but i really dont think this episode was bad!
This story didn't grip me at all, and found it frustrating and even annoying at times. That's a real shame, because I've been enjoying the RTD2 era so far, including Space Babies (which I actually liked).
i personally dont enjoy any dr romances between companion or otherwise thays why rose was my least fav and so is river song idk why it just doesnt feel right. i liked rogue as a character but tbey didnt have enough time together for me to make me get emotional about his sendoff really imo i enjoyed the ncutis performance tho especially whej he became more serious it was definitely a highlight
I think going into the episode thinking it’s supposed to be the bad one, which if I’m honest I’ve seen nobody insinuate that (that seemed to be Dot & Bubble). If you go into an episode thinking it’s going to be shit then chances are your opinion isn’t going to change. It was a pretty good episode.
The aliens were interesting. Don't care for Bridgerton. See what the next season will have. If old enemies will return. Ncuti needs to stay on. If in the future Jonathan is available. Maybe he will be back. Maybe it won't happen.
Story wasn’t great but I kinda liked the dynamic between The Doctor and Rogue have at the moment
Didn’t like Yaz and Thirteen
This is better tho
Excited to see more of these two 👀
at least yaz and 13 had a build up this is total nonsense already started kissing and shit before they know who each other are such dumb writing
@@DeusLucifer I think it's a bit harsh to call it "dumb writing" but I do think they just misunderstood who The Doctor is. He isn't someone to fall in love simply based on their appearance but also on their personality, Rouge tried to kill The Doctor and he was still flirting, just didn't sit right with me. These are 2 new writers who have never written for Doctor Who before, and it is unfortunately obvious to me
I’m so glad you didn’t like this. I struggled SOOO much with this episode. Super mid in my opinion. Thankfully it’s one of only a couple mid episodes this season so far imo.
i feel like they were going "ah yes dr and jack was romantic coded, so this character will woo the doctor" but im just like... idk.... its cute, its gay, its sweet, but its not heart wrenching ive only known rogue for 40 minutes so theres no attachment
Totally agree with you - that was just a bad episode. I was really surprised so many people like it. I ignore all the 'anti woke' channels as it's just endless poison there, but equally there has to be some objectivity. The basic story was interesting, but the aliens were poor, the Bridgerton references tiresome and the romance was forced. I fully accept forgiving Rogue trying to kill him, but to believe the Doctor forged such a deep relationship with such a one dimensional character in that space of time - No. It did though give a reason for the Doctor to cry again, now carrying less weight each time. Roll on next week and hopefully a great finale.
it was like a 6.5 for me, the monsters were sooo bad looking (the blue whiskers thing im looking at you), the instrumentals were nice, bad guy and bad romance🔥
tbh i really enjoyed the chemistry btwn rogue and the doctor. was it kind of rushed? yes, but they made it work, like the actors pulled their of roles of so well, i want to see more of rogue asap, the banter, the humour. & yeah the doctor doesn’t usually go around falling in love with people, but astrid and reinette were a thing, so its close enough + river was literally programmed to kill him😭
oh andddd i feel like the fact that the doctor could really relate to rogue helped - another lonely traveller, who lost a loved one? which other of his love interests did he ever bond with like this?
it was predictable that he’d go out saving ruby tho
My favorite 10th doctor and rose
Bit of a meh episode tbh, but cool to see Richard E Grant is cannon at last!
Richard E. Grant is a cannon? Bro that's nuts. Incidentally, did you hear Richard E. Grant is canon now?
@@HOTD108_ you just answered your own question with another question
My ratings so far:
Space babies 1/10
Devils chord 2/10
Boom 8/10
73 yards 8/10
Dot and bubble 6/10
Rogue 4/10
Space babies 2/10
Devils chord 6/10
Boom 8/10
73 yards 9/10
dot and bubble 7/10
rogue 7/10
I think you are a bit harsh on at least 3 of those stories,
space babies was the weakest of the season for me but was still a 6-7/10
The Devils Chord is very solid story 8/10
Boom is the best episode of the series for me personally 10/10
73 Yards is the second best of the season 9/10
Dot And Bubble is fun but definitely suffered with the reduced runtime a bit short like rogue 7/10
Rogue was on par with The Devils Chord maybe slightly better 8-9/10
I entirely agree. I've enjoyed the last 3 episodes, but this one was just pure cringe. The romance was too sudden for me, the Ruby fake out felt predictable (second fake out of the series) and how was Rouge simply able to push Ruby off the transport gate was unsatisfying to imo, why didn't The Doctor think of that? What was the point in killing off Rouge he has so much wasted potential, I would have loved him to be reoccurring character, but no they killed him off the very episode he was introduced. I'm not a fan of the time period they're in either. Yeah not for me this one.
I loved it and we can still agree its cringey as fuck. U gotta be able to cringewatch and genuinely laugh at how bad some moments may be 😂❤
@@Futurebound_jpg I have to admit, after a few days and I've rewatched the episode twice now, it is better than I first watched it. Perhaps because after Boom, 73 Yards and Dot And Bubble my expectations were quite high. It is nice to have a more light hearted episode even though I still have quite a few issues with it. But overall I still think it's better than Space Babies lol.
@@Tortoiz07 thats cool that you gave it another shot! Im glad u were able to find some more enjoyment!
I also thought space babies was lame as hell! How am i supposed to sympathize with a violent booger monster trying to scare babies? They shouldve at least made the bogeyman look like an actual creature. I would be more inclined to sympathize with a monster like the aliens from Alien than a SNOT MONSTER. I dont even like HUMANS who pick their boogies in front of me 🤣 the episode was funny up until the lackluster ending
the plot itself was cheap and i really didn't like it, but if i just look at it as a story purely for introducing rogue then it's way easier to digest lmfao
The character aspects were good imo but they were really all that it had going
9/10 for me personally but would have liked to have seen more with the Chuldur
Personally I absolutely loved this episode
Thought it was a mid tier episode storywise but with some nice lines. I did actually enjoy it. I thought it was interesting that it was written by Loki writers after RTD criticised that show for virtue signalling, and they're now giving us an explicit same-sex romance.
But anything after a double whammy of 73 yards and Dot and Bubble would have to be pretty special to impress. Rogue will probably return, but depending on schedule and budget, and you know that when they cast a high profile actor.
Ok at least I can rest easy knowing that the only ones who dislike it aren’t the typical “anti-woke” bowlestrek type people 😂
Yeah idk, the Doctor being in relationships has always irked me except from him and river for some reason. Plus the dialogue was all over the place, Ruby was sidelined and contributed nothing to the story apart from causing the doctor to be put in an impossible situation at the end. A whole lot of nothing happened in the middle and kinda made this episode drag a tiny bit. But I will say rogue might’ve been an interesting companion but yeh I do agree him asking to travel with him was so random and didn’t feel earned.
5/10.
Space babies 2/10
Devils chord 6/10
Boom 8/10
73 yards 9/10
dot and bubble 7/10
rogue 7/10
sorry you got hate for this review 😭😭
I agree with 73 Yards and Dot and Bubble
Space babies - 7/10
The Devils Chord - 8/10
Boom - 10/10
73 Yards - 9/10
Dot And Bubble - 7/10
Rogue - 9/10 potentially 8/10 after another watch
i would say dot & bubble is better than boom, boom just didnt click with me. otherwise agreed!
This episode was definitely my least favorite of the season so far.
Wish I was enjoying this season more, honestly. I was excited for Ncuti and so far, I've been fairly unenthused with the season outside of a few moments and ideas here and there.
There were some fun things in this epside. But yeah I mostly felt the same. I liked it more than Space Babies still. But the 'romance' felt so unearned.
@ridaa.f_ wrote this:
"I actually believe Rogue met 14 and travelled with him, which is why he instantly removed his finger off the trigger when he saw tennant's face, and offered little to no explanation when talking about losing that person. It's like RTD does river song. "
Maybe Rogue IS Jack Harkness who already loved the Doctor and their hearts already knew each other.
this episode really did not work for me either i found the story itself pretty boring and the 'love interest' really didn't work for me because rogue and the doctor really didn't seem 'in love' they just seemed rly fucking horny for each other felt like very strong one handed moffat writing imo.
your complaints are too minor to even consider this episode as bad lol. the story is wrapped up nicely, everything comes full circle, the day is saved, the scenes are fun to watch, and it gave the audience a reason to look forward to seeing rogue again😁
Their not in love, their in puppy love, the honeymoon and this is a different doctor, one without the baggage of the war and eternal loss. He still hurts, but is opening himself up, that includes to live again. He has grieved his planet, he has grieved River. He's moving on.
And Bridgerton is the hottest property around right now. I know stoner surfer dudes who are INVESTED in the going ons of the Ton, it's that popular.
This episode was my least favourite so far. The flirty Doctor and the romance with Rogue was okay, but felt way too rushed. But what really bored me was the whole Bridgerton setting, so overrated and cliche. Would have been a better story set in 1913 or 2013. This Period piece needed a tampon to stop my eyes, ears and brain from bleeding.
Completely agree, loved the season otherwise but this one felt off..too rushed and forced?
I wasn't buying Rogue and the Doctor's relationship. Onwards with next week though!
Falling in love with someone who wanted to kill you is not unprecedented for the Doctor...