Javier is just being portrayed as extremely loyal to van der Linde in Rdr 2. Who knows maybe sticking side by side with Dutch turned him equally insane
Even the best guys irl will sometimes turn around to be worst fakest ppl u have ever met some ppl just not show their true intentions until it’s time to show it
Javier is a good character he didn't shoot marston when he was stunned and he didn't point at john and arthur in rdr2 at the end and he was bad things to john cause he got angry that john kidnapped him
@@faridagasiyev7042 I'll say that RDR2's greatest missed potential. It finally gave us a story and world vehicle (in the gang camp) that would've allowed them to explore these RDR1 characters fully only for the game to sidelined and retcon their personalities and roles in the gang. The only character that was left unaffected by this and benefited immensely from a prequel status was Dutch, he's how John, Bill and Javier should've been portrayed; consistent with RDR1's backstory for them and their roles in the gang while also showing how they gradually became the people from that game.
@@AntWZRD444 Tbf, all of them had minor roles in RDR1 and didn't have time to be fully seen for who they were like in RDR2. Regardless, it still wasted these better versions of Bill and Javier by sidelining them and focusing on the new characters like Sadie, Lenny and Charles instead.
Same but it was also pleasant to see a friendly side to them. In the first game we still very rarely see them on screen compared to all the other characters of the game so it was nice to see how much different things were 12 years prior
That’s why I’m glad I couldn’t get into RDR1 and stopped playing early in the game so I didn’t remember none of the characters when I was playing RDR2. So idek Dutch was a bad man until the end of RDR2
Javier, Uncle, and Abigail's VA is different in RDR2. Uncle's original voice actor died while RDR2 was in development...they named one place in West Elizabeth after him.
Did you guys know that John(the player) can choose to never have to shoot his former gang members? Javier can be spared, Bill is killed by Abraham Reyes, if you don’t shoot him, and Dutch kills himself. I always like that about the first red dead redemption; You don’t have to directly be the executioner of your former gang members, and I love that rockstar made that so.
Really one of the most clever workarounds was Dutch giving the same speech as he gave to John before he kills himself to the Army when he jumps off that cliff with Arthur. It sorta represents that Arthur had been on Dutch's mind for all those years and he could no longer escape the guilt.
Plus the other more apparent workaround that we all know about of course but where John confides in his family and Uncle that bringing up Arthur feels sad and pointless and that it's all in the past--nothing more could be said of his friend and he could never repay the sacrifice that Arthur made for him with words.
"Dutch wanted you dead. We all did." hits different after seeing Dutch's reaction to John being broken out of prison and later showing up after the train job
I really think that Bill is such an underrated character he was dumb, loyal and just a senior gun in red dead 2 but in red dead 1 straight away you see how much he has changed and leads the Del Lobo gang staying in a massive hideout and is the most wanted man aside from Dutch in the game
Fun fact, that final speech Dutch gave John there, is the same speech Dutch gave when he and Arthur were running off from the army during Eagle Flies mission before they jumped off into the river
Bill would’ve let Arthur in since Arthur wouldn’t have worked for the feds, the only reason John does is because his family is collateral but they have no leverage over Arthur. Arthur would’ve just been another outlaw and therefore no real threat to Bill. Bill already knew John was working for the feds at this point and plus his suspicion of John ratting on the gang would be confirmed in this moment (Bill and Javier didn’t know Micah was actually ratting they both run away during the final shootout at Beaver Hollow and never learned the truth)
@@charles_the_conqueror Bill definitely didn't respect Arthur in the end. I just finished the story for the 2nd time yesterday. The entire time at Beaver Hollow, all of Arthur and Bill's interactions are him giving Arthur shit for "doubting" and not being loyal anymore.
@@albozru1eThat's not the point. Often times prequel games fail to de-age the character models in a way that looks right, regardless of what the actor looks or sounds like.
Number 2 had such an upgrade in the graphics department too making it in a sense even more of a challenge. Well except for Uncle and his lumbago. Hell I think he looked older in 2 lol.
@@Whocares158I like happy satisfying endings. You know why? Because a mission name "Redemption" exists and it fucks up your whole existence, and then when you think you got a happy ending after "American Venom" there's a whole game called "Red Dead Redemption" and fucks up everything again.
In a fucked up round about way, just as Dutch would, the final scene with john is almost like dutches final goodbye to arthur. It's so crazy and genius rockstar pulled off rdr2's story so perfectly in harmony with rdr1. Dutch is talking to Arthur through John in that final scene. In his final moments, after exhausting all of his clever mindgames, Dutch is forced to accept all of his own failures. After everything is said and done, he says his final words to Arthur through John, and accepts everything he's done up to that point. And then even in death, Dutch continues to hold on to every ideal about the world changing for the worse, and justified everything he has done. Even in the end, he stayed the same Dutch he has always been, from the beginning. Genius, just genius.
I disagree that Rockstar pulled off RDR2 in perfect harmony with RDR1. It's an amazing story but only a decent prequel. The reason I think this scene works so well is because Dutch is the only character who's perfectly consistently written and portrayed across both games, and so his final monologue feels like the perfect culmination to his arc and development that we saw unfold across RDR2. The continuity and OG players from RDR1 like John, Bill and Javier were all retconned and sidelined in favor of new characters and telling a new story.
It's not really genius, it's just good storytelling. I'm not taking anything away from the writers, cause it's a good tale. But honestly, all the writers did was skip straight to the last lines of RDR1 and base a story off that.. it's how story writing works. To make it fit well is the art, and well they did 'alright'.. but it's not exactly a complicated story.
No, he was talking to John, telling him that he’s as good as dead too. “When I’m gone.. they’re just gonna find another monster.” He meant the Pinkertons are going to get John next, and they did. That’s also why he said “our” time is past instead of just “my” time has passed or something else along those lines.
i have a theory, since we know he hit his head on the boat to guam, i imagine he had hallucinations of Arthur, afterall Arthur's the one he raised and knew the longest(after Hosea), so i imagine his guilt made him see Arthur in his last image, a poor man with TB about to die, but he doesnt sound like it, and all Arthur does is questioning him, doubting, as Dutch alllways thought, they have full convos and such too, this is his punishment, and finally, the doubting and such turned out to be worries from Arthur, and he saw that before he jumped
Shows their moral standpoint at the finale of their lives, Arthur expends what little he has left to ensure the prosperity of his brother, while Dutch lives selfishly knowing he betrayed his sons and brothers.
Remember, it’s not just voice acting. It’s full on acting, with all the facial expressions and body movements being live captured on mo-cap film. And according to Benjamin Byron Davis who played Dutch, in RDR1 the technology was such that they had to do each scene in a continuous take to be able to use what they filmed. They couldn’t cut and edit takes together, which makes each scene like this even more impressive.
@@andyspendlove1019 "Remember, it’s not just voice acting. It’s full on acting" ... Exactly! So many people seem to think that it is all just voice acting but it's actually so much more impressive! As you pointed out, RDR1 was already incredible; but the performances in RDR2 by almost any actor, but especially Roger Clark as Arthur, were absolutely phenomenal! This level of acting is on par with the best performances in movies. These guys should receive far more credit than they are getting. They aren't just top-notch voice actors, no, they are ACTUAL actors! It becomes even more impressive when you consider that these performances were recorded in a mo-cap environment with almost complete lack of any set-pieces. Essentially, they are acting completely blind while also being plastered with mo-cap sensors! I have nothing but respect for all the people involved. The actors, the animators, the 3d-artists, etc... What they have pulled off in both RDR1 and RDR2 is simply unmatched!
The way javier changed chapter 1 going out in the mountains and rescuing John and then leaving him behind in chapter 6 then finally trying to kill him and hating him in rdr1
Him and Bill never learned that Micah was the rat. They ran before he was exposed, and still thought it was John who did it and backstabbed Dutch. That's the main reason for their hostility.
I think it's very telling that Javier & Bill went south to Mexico and Charles went up to Canada. The most wicked characters went down south the join the Devil, while Charles went up north to live a more an honorable life adjacent to God. Meanwhile, Dutch remained in the same place he became his true self and turned wicked. This symbolizes the state of outlaws at the turn of the 20th century. Bill & Javier leave for Mexico as a way of turning back the clock and staying within the realm of the outlaw life. While Charles leaves for Canada as a way of embracing the future. Dutch is himself an amalgation of the two- he is stuck as an outlaw and doomed to wander as a modern Cain, however as your see in RDR1 he now embraces certain mechanisms of the future. His staying in Blackwater also shows how he is trapped in time. Blackwater is where his life had reached its climax- he changed from an outlaw, his own version of Robin Hood, into a ruthless, money-hungry murderer. Blackwater was the main point of contention within his gang. For him to remain there shows that he never moved on from his gang, nor his outlaw life. Whether he had the money to escape never truly seemed to matter for him. For the thing he had to escape the most was his own nature. Dutch staying in Blackwater symbolizes his innability and refusal to change as well as his innability to accept the changes of the world around him. Blackwater itself is a perfect metaphor for him. The town is gradually adapting to the wave of the 20th century, with new buildings sprawling alongside the older ones. The symbology and metaphors within this game are incredible and as a writer it amazes me how intricate the details are. Red Dead Redemption is as much a video game as it is a movie, book, or comic. Every detail is masterfully woven in to the story and years later I am still picking apart the pieces of this beautiful story. If you got to the bottom of this comment, I commend you 😅 I know it was a long tangent lol
People complaining that Arthur wasn't mentioned in the first game etc. The fact is he didn't need to be. The first game's story is centered on John dealing with who's left alive in the gang. Then getting what was always going to come to him in the end. Not mentioning even Arthur in the old game doesn't create plot holes etc. John is hunting the remains of his gang as his family is held hostage by the government. There's no reason to talk in detail about who's not part of his mission. Bill, Javier, and Dutch weren't going to reminisce with John around campfires with John about specific dead gang members while he's hunting them. Let it go and enjoy the games and their stories for what they were.
When he first met Bill , Bill canon wise would have mentioned Hosea and Arthur instead of John since they were actually in charge and John was just a senior gun. I think that’s the only time where Arthur could me mentioned
Yeah, not to mention to Bill and Javier, Arthur really wasn't that important in the first place. Of course, he's important to John (a man who doesn't like to talk about his past in detail, and certainly not with strangers, who comprise the majority of characters he interacts with in RDR1) and he's important to Dutch (who is an antagonist who only appears in the final act of the game). The fact of the matter is, Arthur is important to US, but it's not likely these men would be talking about him every chance they get, and certainly not in the situations they find themselves in.
in RDR2 arthur is called "uncle", and in RDR1 you have "uncle" at the farm. is it arthur? because in the secret ending of RDR2 arthur survives and is standing on top of the farm.
I always felt the gang was pretty underdeveloped, but I guess the real villain was Ross, who got almost double the screen time of these three combined.
I dont think Ross was a bad guy. Back stabbing John was very dishonourable but I mean he did get rid of the worst gang in the west and in the dialogue, you can hear John's crimes which was pretty terrible, he didnt really deserve a 2nd chance.
Thanks for this. I was starting to replay rdr1 after finishing rdr2 but decided to find something like this instead, being my only reason to replay. You saved me a ton of time. :)
@@Nobodynotable1 Still dosent mean playing the first isn't an experience in itself. Honestly it could just be bias since i grew up on these games, but i never think its worse to play the og's over the first games. Of course they're worse, but great in their own way.
@Mike Fitzgerald rag doll animation and the way npc react to getting shot is way better In the first game. You shoot them in the arm, they can’t use that arm. Shoot their knees out and they can’t walk. Shoot their foot and they’ll walk with a limp. It also still had fatal arteries shots as well, the game was far ahead of its time and is worth a play. And imo Rdr John is better than rdr2 Arthur
I didnt play red dead 1 before going into Red Dead 2, so I had no idea that dutch, bill, and JAVIER would go bad. This honestly broke my heart. Damn you rockstar
The main story is even better than rdr2s IMO, and even though it doesn’t have as many main characters every one feels pretty fleshed out and/or likeable from a writing perspective. Also the ragdolls are better and the guns feel much more powerful than rdr2s.
@@fps595 are you a kid? in what way is rdr2 story the best story in gaming? you are eating the overhype friend. rdr2 is amazing in a lot of aspects, but its story is not among the greatest by any means.
This is the reason why you should play this before RD2. Not because it’s the second game, but because of how Bill, Javier, and Dutch were such likable characters and we saw a bigger picture to how/why they went down a dark path. Not only that but understanding how John influenced from Arthur (making his character in RD1 have so much more meaning) It would be hard and depressing it would to play as John with his brothers and later have to kill them, let alone watching Dutch commit suicide with “Our time has passed, John” and then John gets betrayed by Ross, who was there since the beginning. It’s already a dark and depressing story but imagine having to play through this in chronological order.
Nah, I much preferred playing the 2 before the 1 because having to capture/kill your comrades is much more impactful, especially the suicide of Dutch. In the 1, you meet Dutch in only four missions, and you hear little of him before. Having known him throughout RDR2 makes you feel more emotions when he dies in RDR1, like with Bill and Javier. Especially with the speech he makes just before killing himself.
You know those movies that like to start off with the uhh… fucking ending and then a character does a flashback or time rewinds? (Any story like this is dogshit) That’s how playing RDR1 first would feel like
I watched this game pretty much immediately after I finished RDR2 and I must say, I'm glad I didn't see or watch this before I did the sequel. Everything just makes sense and even this very encounter with Bill, I instantly realized that this isn't the same drunken idiot Bill from RDR2. Javier was whatever, but Dutch especially shocked me how he shot the girl in the bank with no hesitation and just kept mocking John. Dutch grew to be a bastard as I played RDR2, but he still remained somewhat likable at least until the Beaver Hollow chapter. In RDR1, he's just a complete douchebag.
@@_MaZTeR_ imo it was more impactful playing RD1 first because we got to see why Dutch became this way. And it wasn’t just a cliché “He used to be good.” it was the fact that he was always greedy and narcissistic but it didn’t start showing until everyone started to doubt him. There are moments where you can catch it subtly throughout the second game.
AHHAHAHAHAHH holy smokes you’re right, I wonder what he thinks about Ray slow and all these other new guys the John Matt, kind of one of the conversation between our invisible Arthur and John
Even though we all knew Dutch went crazy and all but it’s so insane seeing how he was the type man to always try to avoid harming children and innocent women and yet in this game he just straight up shoots a young innocent woman in the back of the head with no remorse. He became ruthless
Well on the black water heist, the one that puts the gang on the run at the beginning of RDR 2, they mention that dutch killed a woman for no reason, meaning his downfall was already started
I need remake only for one line at 1:58 “No more dutch, no more arthur and no more you” I clearly get it that John doesn’t like to talk about his past, clearly stated by abigail in RDR2, but come on… why doesnt billl, Javier or Dutch mentions him.
That line would make even less sense if that happened. The context was "Now I'm in charge!" and then Bill listing off those who used to be in charge. John was always a foot soldier apparently, and Hosea would be excluded for some reason.
@@ApricityGlowJohn was kinda more valued than bill tho all the leaders were pretty cool with John. But they all kinda thought bill was dumb so it makes a little sense imo but it’s obviously they just didn’t have a plan for what happened before
I get the idea that they also don't like thinking about Arthur, whether out of spite for their perception of him as a traitor or (more likely) out of regret and not willing to admit or think too much about that they were wrong and kept on going with their way of life for nothing (especially Dutch).
Thats what made him so dangerous, all those years of being put down by all of his peers which just worsened his insecurities about his masculinity and his temper imo
His uncertainty in the second game makes his demeanor in the first game make a lot of sense. By Chapter 6, he is so lost, that by 1911, he has succumbed to a lower point.
I like how Javier kept calling john brother " because he really was once a good brother to john , and he also wasn't involved in leaving john behind , that was dutch himself who said , ill go back for him which he didn't , but javier was just focusing on their hiest mission.
The 1st encounter with Bill is kind of sad, John is trying to level with him but like Dutch he's gone mad and John realizes there is no saving them. But I hope if they go for a part 3, we can see what ends up of Charles. He's a really mysterious character and he ends up going North with Rains Falls
21:08 Dutch to John: You can't erase the past John, Killing me won't make it go away. John to Dutch in RDR2's final mission: Killing me won't solve nothing Dutch The analogy between the two encounters, both on the top of a snowy mountain, with Dutch saying "We gotta stop meeting like this" in RDR1, and with the whole RDR story beginning in a Snowy Mountain and ending on the same place, GENIUS.
I think my biggest gripe with RDR2 is how, despite being a great character, I feel like Dutch had more potential. Him unraveling and showing his true nature as the world closes in is really fun to watch and I do think they did a wonderful job... but I still have this feeling that they leaned too heavily on his charisma and not enough on his intellect. What I think is really fascinating about Dutch in 1911 is how he's completely hollowed out but obviously not a stupid man. Even John, years later, sticks by a lot of what Dutch taught him in his formative years and clearly quotes him every time he needs a quip or some hand-me-down philosophy. In RDR2, however, Dutch is kinda insecure about his intellect and apparently just quotes from books he reads while doing nothing at camp. He gets hissy at Lenny when he doesn't like Miller's writing, I mean he just comes off as insecure, like he knows deep down he's faking it. This does not make him a worse character but I just feel like that reading is distinct to RDR2-Dutch, where I always felt that RDR1 Dutch was more an animalistic killer but certainly not a dumb one. I don't know, I just feel like somewhere in an alternate universe we got a more lucid Van Der Linde, who was a bit more impressive. More of a Herman Melville type who was well-learned from life experience and curiosity, who let cynicism hollow him out rather than paranoia and delusions of grandeur. I just see him as more genuinely convincing in RDR1 despite him literally only doing evil shit for no reason. That either says something terrible about my character or there's a change in *vibes* from 1 to 2. Maybe making a more convincing Van Der Linde would have been a bad idea, you don't wanna actually convince the epic gamers that they should be flower-loving killers, or wear entirely too little clothing in the snow. Long comment lmao
To your last sentence there, I get the impression in RDR2 that we’re seeing a version of Dutch that is quickly unraveling. From the beginning of the game he’s all insecurity and chasing after sunk costs, and he gets really snippy with Arthur when he questions him even as far back as the Grizzly mountain camp. He’s a man who is still fooling himself that the gang’s best days are ahead of them. My headcanon for the character is that during RDR2 he truly was falling apart: he was surrounded by people he cared about and who cared about him, but he could see their trust in him eroding and it just forced him to make even greater and more reckless gambits. Meanwhile, RDR1 Dutch is a man on autopilot: he’s leading a pack of nameless, faceless bandits through the death rattle of the Old West. Way more lucid for sure, but also just going through the motions because he accepted long ago that his day is done.
@@geneparmesan8748 Hey thanks for responding, seriously. I don't think the Dutch we got is like *wrong* or anything, I'm just kinda nitpicking and wondering about how else he could have been written. Because, I don't quite agree that Dutch was on full autopilot with faceless bandits. Dutch's gang in 1911 was almost entirely native americans that he manipulated to his doctrine of rebellious chaos. I think in many ways Dutch is similar to Captain Ahab in his crusade against an abstract concept. I guess the only real bone I have to pick is simply that I don't think making him vain and a hypocrite was really that needed lmao I don't really have much else to argue. I just played the first game when I was like 13 years old and it always stuck with me how not entirely feral this weird man on the mountain was. That somewhere behind him there was a kind of revolutionary who understood what was wrong in the world but let himself be consumed by the hatred for it, by cynicism and simply the rush of conflict. A soldier without a war, an old gun in peacetime. I guess I was slightly disappointed that in his hayday he was just some lying dork that liked the idea of manifest destiny. I still really like that dork and his arc though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ That dragged on, sorry about that. What a cool game, eh?
I think you’re right about Dutch being insecure. In RDR1, he didn’t care about it anymore because he had nothing else to lose. In RDR2, he had a facade to maintain in order to keep his gang under control. In RDR1, he kept fighting because that was all he knew and did not trust anyone, just wanted to destroy his enemies.
I think the perception between games is different due to going from an ally of Dutch to an enemy of Dutch, of cource as his enemy and how he has changed he comes off as a lot more methodical, merciless, and cunning but as his peer it's easier to notice where his persona cracks
Until he’s running away and then caught he immediately reverts to “puto” and insulting his family. Javier didn’t care for John anymore at this point it’s shown he stopped caring for John in chapter 6 of the 2nd game and here he’s only being friendly because he has a gun to his face
@@josephstalin2606 John arrogantly, although rightfully so, deflected each of Javier’s attempts to reminisce. After being taunted that you’re going to be hung, slammed into the concrete of a jail cell and insulted as if the brotherhood you shared meant nothing (it’s widely understood Javier is the only gang member who actually gave a shit about John after the finale of rdr2), you’d be pretty pissed too.
@@lordogordo9407 Attempts to reminisce? You mean manipulate? You also realize Javier was one of the ones to actually leave John behind too and he had no problems doing so he just silently follows Dutch and Micah and let’s them blatantly lie to Arthur’s face. Javier didn’t care for John after rdr2 at all and him pointing the gun upwards was because he didn’t want to aim at Arthur, not John. Either way when the cutscene ends you see Javier pointing at John anyways so it’s a common misconception that he didn’t aim at all towards them. As for rdr1, Javier had a gun pointed at him the entire time, he was willing to say anything like “come on you wouldn’t shoot your own brother” not even apologizing for leaving John for dead, and then going as far as to offer up Bill instead (what happened to loyalty?) and even lying about Dutch “being in Columbia and I’ll take you straight to him” which is a blatant lie because nobody knew Dutchs location until he showed up just outside Blackwater so Javier was clearly lying and playing on Johns emotions to get the upper hand. Once Javier has a chance at running away he starts being his true self insulting John and his family and then immediately reverts back to “come on brother don’t do this” when he’s tied up. Once he’s in the cell and has no escape he calls John a “puto” and curses his family. He’s not a good guy at all he just did a good job manipulating the player into thinking so, just like Dutch
@@josephstalin2606 You speak as if Javier had any other choice given the circumstances. He was definitely trying to manipulate and use John’s emotions against him in an attempt to be spared, but when the voice actor himself cooperates with Rockstar to portray the character in a manner that shows he gives a shit about John and Arthur, calling him a bad person is naive
@@lordogordo9407 The fact that you say yourself that the voice actor took creative liberties for the second game, and had to fight just to make Javier seem more of a “good guy” literally proves my point how Javier was never meant to be one in the first place, he was meant to be a scumbag like Bill and Dutch were and the first game (a game the 2nd voice actor had no control over) shows just that. Even in the 2nd game Javier still left John for dead and if it’s something he was truly remorseful for he would’ve apologized to John but he doesn’t even do that, he instead tries to lie to him by saying “we thought you were dead” which Johns reaction after proves he knows Javier is just lying. And did John really have any choice himself? It was between a man who betrayed him and left him for dead and his own family, but John was supposed to just reminisce with Javier and let him go? No bud that’s not how that works. John clearly has wisen up and doesn’t fall for the manipulative bs anymore which is why he coldly deflects Javier Also, don’t get confused, Javier only cared for Arthur between him and John. I suggest you watch more Beaver Hollow camp interactions because he seems upset that Arthur doesn’t have much faith but in a disappointed way whereas he gets into an argument with John and tells him to get his head straight. And then leaves John for dead. The reason he didn’t point the gun is because he saw Arthur still as a brother, but John had been basically cut off from the gang by that point. You don’t realize that Javier has different relationships with Arthur and John so yes he seemed nicer in the 2nd game because we play as Arthur, once we switch to Johns perspective you see the man Javier was to him
This. Decanonize the first game so more can be done with the remake. Updated voices, updated dialogue so that Arthur and Micah are brought up, you could even encounter Sadie Adler in Mexico in a side mission as that is where she says she's headed in the epilogue. They could even give Jack Arthur's jacket in the epilogue or even expand on his story after he kills Ross.
@@GoodOlRollArthur Fanboys are so annoying. Leave the first game alone. So tired of my favorite game ever being disrespected by people who have only played the second game or played it first. Let The characters from the first game be their own characters, let the story of the first game be it's own story with its own new characters and don't drag John and his own game to elevate Arthur once again. Also Sadie said South America, that's not Mexico. Which is good, I couldn't stand her. Definitely wouldn't want her in a remake
@@gageowo9527 I'm no Arthur fanboy friend. In fact, I'm all for them portraying John as the badass he was in the first game. That being said however, the two games do not mesh well together plot-wise. Some updated dialogue is needed. Arthur doesn't need to be elevated but the way the characters just avoid talking about him or Micah or what happened on Mount Hagan is off-putting. Seeing Sadie in Mexico is just a fun idea, but I'd be just as fine with her not being present.
I haven't got the chance to play rdr2 yet, and i never expectrd john to just immediately get "fuck offed" when he tried to draw his gun in the first one. It was honestly kinda funny 🤣
Wow, so all the villain interactions combined in RDR 1 can be condensed to a 23 minute video? Rockstar really did them all a favor with the hours of characterization added in RDR 2.
This is honestly a story "a man who goes back to where he was to kill his family who has the potential to kill the world(etc.) Even tho he doesnt want to."
I remember playing red dead 1 all summer going into my senior year of high-school. I was so satisfied with it that when rd2 came out i didnt even care. 5 years later, i just started playing rd2 and its great. But red dead 1 will always be my favorite of the series, probably because of my nostalgia and playing as john.
I always thought it was strange how John is so nonchalant about everything like you straight fight in a mexican revolution and it’s like nothing to him after playing rdr2 you see why the gang brought mayhem everywhere they went
Of all things rdr2 showed I think thats the best. John is such a terminator it's nice to see it wasnt just out of nowhere. He was half groomed as arthur was to be a gang enforcer.
It’s because it’s not really his fight, he jumps from side to side multiple times until he’s betrayed by the government and forced to find help with the rebels. He’s only really fighting just for information on Javier and Bill and once he gets that he leaves Mexico. This is also just a part of the war not the whole thing since Reyes says that after Allende he will march his army to the capital and fight there which John obviously wasn’t present for
It was more Hosea than anything that held the group together. He kept Dutch in check and listened to Arthur. Once he died and Dutch got that head injury, Dutch progressively became more unhinged.
Dutch really appears crazy and miserable in rdr1 when all shiny and leader in 2, But was mad all along, the moments he said the word "plan" for the 3rd time in rdr2 i knew it was over x)
It's like RDR1 was written for RDR2. Everything fit in just perfectly. My impression Is that Rockstar's writers already had a cheap backstory of the gang, but they put everything in a far background for another story. Maybe there was even an idea for Arthur Morgan, but there was no complete character for sure. All they did in RDR2 was taking the original backstory and just improve It with the main character point of view. The story Is too solid, they already knew how to write RDR2, they just added things later. Both games are masterpieces, the best of Rockstar's portfolio in my opinion, together with GTA IV and San Andreas.
Dutch broke my heart. I never played the first Red Dead but when I see those cutscenes it just makes me so emotional. Red Dead 2 is sad...but Red Dead 1 is hopeless.
I’m so glad we got so much more of Dutch through RDR2. I always felt so disappointed in the lack of time we seen him in the og game because he’s an incredible character. His monologues were the most memorable and to some extent, I seen him more as a cornered animal taking one last grasp of control in a world that’s got him. Now I’m like - “offt Splatty McCracksalot bouncing off the rocks too hard???”
I kinda want games to be more like that I jus can’t get into gameplay if I can run around taking bullets to the head and jus take a medicine to heal and then kill like 20 people with dead eye. I wish ur npc allies actually were really helpful and the enemy npcs were really dangerous
Man dude it’s Ben so long I remember it all now the desert the mountains the fort crazy I forgot about it just not the desert part but this brings it all back wow thanks for this awesome back to the future video literally feel like I’m back when this first came out and replaying it for the first time the graphics and all 😂👍🏻😭🤙🏻👏🏻🙏🏻
![Red Dead Redemption 2 & 1 - All Gang Members' Deaths (from Davey to Abigail) [PC, 4K]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/5gjVpYQ9DWQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I never wanted Javier to be a bad person. I always saw him as a good character
Javier is just being portrayed as extremely loyal to van der Linde in Rdr 2. Who knows maybe sticking side by side with Dutch turned him equally insane
Tbh the story is that Dutch gave Javier food when he was eating out of dustbins. So he’ll deffo be blindly loyal to him
Even the best guys irl will sometimes turn around to be worst fakest ppl u have ever met some ppl just not show their true intentions until it’s time to show it
Javier is a good character he didn't shoot marston when he was stunned and he didn't point at john and arthur in rdr2 at the end and he was bad things to john cause he got angry that john kidnapped him
@@freddym99 tbf that is what John says.
Can we all agree that Javier is way better in rdr2
They are all better in rdr 2..
@@faridagasiyev7042 except john
@@faridagasiyev7042 I'll say that RDR2's greatest missed potential. It finally gave us a story and world vehicle (in the gang camp) that would've allowed them to explore these RDR1 characters fully only for the game to sidelined and retcon their personalities and roles in the gang. The only character that was left unaffected by this and benefited immensely from a prequel status was Dutch, he's how John, Bill and Javier should've been portrayed; consistent with RDR1's backstory for them and their roles in the gang while also showing how they gradually became the people from that game.
Facts!! Bill was better too.
@@AntWZRD444 Tbf, all of them had minor roles in RDR1 and didn't have time to be fully seen for who they were like in RDR2. Regardless, it still wasted these better versions of Bill and Javier by sidelining them and focusing on the new characters like Sadie, Lenny and Charles instead.
It kind of weird playing RDR2 when it was new and thought " Yeah.. all these people will turn crazy and died, now lets sing a song in this camp".
That's my secret Cap, i never played the original rdr
Same but it was also pleasant to see a friendly side to them. In the first game we still very rarely see them on screen compared to all the other characters of the game so it was nice to see how much different things were 12 years prior
if you go back to the first camp after the end of the game you can hear echoes of you all singing around the fire.
That’s why I’m glad I couldn’t get into RDR1 and stopped playing early in the game so I didn’t remember none of the characters when I was playing RDR2. So idek Dutch was a bad man until the end of RDR2
@@SpaceGuy24lol "That's my secret Cap." 😂
the fact that they still have the same voice actors in 8 years apart game is incredible.
Uncle's original voice actor died. Abigail has a different voice in rdr 2.
Javier, Uncle, and Abigail's VA is different in RDR2.
Uncle's original voice actor died while RDR2 was in development...they named one place in West Elizabeth after him.
@@rosaria8384O’Creagh’s Lake i think
@@rosaria8384i remember hearing somewhere that when Uncle sings it's the original va's voice
@@ghoulsome9483 yep, it was O'Creagh's singing voice during Uncle's Bad Day. It's great that they kept it even after he passed away.
Interesting fact. At 6:30 that's actually Arthur Morgan's ghost holding that gun.
Nah that’s Gavin
@@Arthur-Morgan_ gavin!
That’s an average man with severe lumbago
lol
@@KentuckyWaterfall13that's how you describe uncle
It’s so crazy seeing how much the family grew apart
Honestly, to the point where they’re shooting at each other 😢
They should've stayed together and taken on Edgar Ross and company.
ong 😕
Frl
Thats how gangs works man
Did you guys know that John(the player) can choose to never have to shoot his former gang members? Javier can be spared, Bill is killed by Abraham Reyes, if you don’t shoot him, and Dutch kills himself. I always like that about the first red dead redemption; You don’t have to directly be the executioner of your former gang members, and I love that rockstar made that so.
I’m pretty sure if you don’t kill Javier he is hung shortly after
i would've liked to kill dutch myself after how he killed that girl
@@fearofowl5973 its left up to interpretation, he could have gotten life in prison as well
The final newspaper at the end confirms javier getting hanged if you chose to spare him
Kinda proud I didn't choose to kill any member, even though it was kinda hard on hardcore lol
Arthur “insists” while John “implores”
@@Vomer0sexist. RDR3 will have a female protagonist
@@mrtrolly4184 For the "m o d e r n a u d i e n c e s"
@@mrtrolly4184bruh
I implores you
@@anthonyt1t5no no no, I Insist
I know rockstar didn’t think that far ahead yet but i would like it if they at least mentioned Arthur once 😔
That's one of the reasons RDR1 needs a remake. But Rockstar won't do it, too much work for their greedy asses.
@@eduard476 instead of a Remake, they should make another Prequel with Dutch as the playable character. Let's keep RDR1 in our memories as it was...
Really one of the most clever workarounds was Dutch giving the same speech as he gave to John before he kills himself to the Army when he jumps off that cliff with Arthur. It sorta represents that Arthur had been on Dutch's mind for all those years and he could no longer escape the guilt.
Plus the other more apparent workaround that we all know about of course but where John confides in his family and Uncle that bringing up Arthur feels sad and pointless and that it's all in the past--nothing more could be said of his friend and he could never repay the sacrifice that Arthur made for him with words.
@@eduard476 let’s not remake it
"Dutch wanted you dead. We all did." hits different after seeing Dutch's reaction to John being broken out of prison and later showing up after the train job
Micah manipulated Dutch into thinking John was the rat when it was Micah all along.
21:48 i got a plan John. you always got a plan Dutch. those words hurt so much
Sometimes i am wondering what Dutch said to his new gangmembers in those 4 years.
What if Dutch when he jumped off last second he's like "oh wait there's no ri-"
@@masterm537he always had a way with words
@@greedyanimal3148 “aww shit my parachute”
on the last mission of RDR2 he even says that too lol
I really think that Bill is such an underrated character he was dumb, loyal and just a senior gun in red dead 2 but in red dead 1 straight away you see how much he has changed and leads the Del Lobo gang staying in a massive hideout and is the most wanted man aside from Dutch in the game
yeah, it just shows how much the gang splitting changed him, from being a fool of a follower, to a fool of a leader
Del Lobos?
@@GoodOlRoll it’s Bills gang in rdr1
@@Oli-nf4jw You mean Bill,s gang because there is no del lobos in rdr1
@@Oli-nf4jw they aren't the Del Lobos.
Fun fact, that final speech Dutch gave John there, is the same speech Dutch gave when he and Arthur were running off from the army during Eagle Flies mission before they jumped off into the river
Woah you’re right, thanks for pointing that out! Played RD2 and now watching these RD1 clips so had no clue! That’s awesome
@@basedboi3956 and Dutch voice actor is the master of crack voice. Truly amazing work of art
Arthur also tells Dutch "Our time has pretty much passed" in RDR2
Oh wow
ik i loved that little easter egg
If Arthur showed up for bill in that first screen bill would be scared
Considering he’d be resurrected 😂😂 but bill respected Arthur until the very end because he never ran and stayed loyal like bill and Javier
If Arthur pulled up on anyone they'd be scared shitless
Bill would’ve let Arthur in since Arthur wouldn’t have worked for the feds, the only reason John does is because his family is collateral but they have no leverage over Arthur. Arthur would’ve just been another outlaw and therefore no real threat to Bill. Bill already knew John was working for the feds at this point and plus his suspicion of John ratting on the gang would be confirmed in this moment (Bill and Javier didn’t know Micah was actually ratting they both run away during the final shootout at Beaver Hollow and never learned the truth)
"Marion! Get your ass out here!"
*Bill's gang all start laughing at him*
@@charles_the_conqueror
Bill definitely didn't respect Arthur in the end.
I just finished the story for the 2nd time yesterday.
The entire time at Beaver Hollow, all of Arthur and Bill's interactions are him giving Arthur shit for "doubting" and not being loyal anymore.
i gotta say, they did an amazing job de-aging them in a way that didnt make it seem weird you know, like you really recognised them all right away
Thats the beauty of voice acting/mocap. An actor doesnt need to worry about aging as long as they can do the voice and act out the cutscenes.
@@albozru1eThat's not the point. Often times prequel games fail to de-age the character models in a way that looks right, regardless of what the actor looks or sounds like.
Number 2 had such an upgrade in the graphics department too making it in a sense even more of a challenge. Well except for Uncle and his lumbago. Hell I think he looked older in 2 lol.
That “Mexico is mine!” At 7:18 always made me feel like “oh shit did I fuck up 😳” 💀
I searched up what happened to Mexico in 1914, and yes, you did indeed fuck up
yup, traded one dictator for another
@KeyUploadsA big theme of RDR is that no one really gets what they deserve, because life in the Wild West was almost never fair
The side missions proved this.
If only RDR2 side missions were like that instead of "Happy satisfying endings"
@@Whocares158I like happy satisfying endings. You know why? Because a mission name "Redemption" exists and it fucks up your whole existence, and then when you think you got a happy ending after "American Venom" there's a whole game called "Red Dead Redemption" and fucks up everything again.
In a fucked up round about way, just as Dutch would, the final scene with john is almost like dutches final goodbye to arthur. It's so crazy and genius rockstar pulled off rdr2's story so perfectly in harmony with rdr1. Dutch is talking to Arthur through John in that final scene. In his final moments, after exhausting all of his clever mindgames, Dutch is forced to accept all of his own failures. After everything is said and done, he says his final words to Arthur through John, and accepts everything he's done up to that point. And then even in death, Dutch continues to hold on to every ideal about the world changing for the worse, and justified everything he has done. Even in the end, he stayed the same Dutch he has always been, from the beginning. Genius, just genius.
I disagree that Rockstar pulled off RDR2 in perfect harmony with RDR1. It's an amazing story but only a decent prequel. The reason I think this scene works so well is because Dutch is the only character who's perfectly consistently written and portrayed across both games, and so his final monologue feels like the perfect culmination to his arc and development that we saw unfold across RDR2. The continuity and OG players from RDR1 like John, Bill and Javier were all retconned and sidelined in favor of new characters and telling a new story.
It's not really genius, it's just good storytelling. I'm not taking anything away from the writers, cause it's a good tale. But honestly, all the writers did was skip straight to the last lines of RDR1 and base a story off that.. it's how story writing works. To make it fit well is the art, and well they did 'alright'.. but it's not exactly a complicated story.
No, he was talking to John, telling him that he’s as good as dead too. “When I’m gone.. they’re just gonna find another monster.” He meant the Pinkertons are going to get John next, and they did. That’s also why he said “our” time is past instead of just “my” time has passed or something else along those lines.
No
i have a theory, since we know he hit his head on the boat to guam, i imagine he had hallucinations of Arthur, afterall Arthur's the one he raised and knew the longest(after Hosea), so i imagine his guilt made him see Arthur in his last image, a poor man with TB about to die, but he doesnt sound like it, and all Arthur does is questioning him, doubting, as Dutch alllways thought, they have full convos and such too, this is his punishment, and finally, the doubting and such turned out to be worries from Arthur, and he saw that before he jumped
Arthur Died At The Top of Mountain...
Dutch Died At The Bottom of One...💔
Shows their moral standpoint at the finale of their lives, Arthur expends what little he has left to ensure the prosperity of his brother, while Dutch lives selfishly knowing he betrayed his sons and brothers.
Micah died on one to
If you choose to go back to camp to get the money, arthur dies in the camp.
@tht921 yes
The red dead series 1 & 2 the voice acting is just so damn good
Remember, it’s not just voice acting. It’s full on acting, with all the facial expressions and body movements being live captured on mo-cap film. And according to Benjamin Byron Davis who played Dutch, in RDR1 the technology was such that they had to do each scene in a continuous take to be able to use what they filmed. They couldn’t cut and edit takes together, which makes each scene like this even more impressive.
@@andyspendlove1019 "Remember, it’s not just voice acting. It’s full on acting" ... Exactly! So many people seem to think that it is all just voice acting but it's actually so much more impressive! As you pointed out, RDR1 was already incredible; but the performances in RDR2 by almost any actor, but especially Roger Clark as Arthur, were absolutely phenomenal! This level of acting is on par with the best performances in movies.
These guys should receive far more credit than they are getting. They aren't just top-notch voice actors, no, they are ACTUAL actors!
It becomes even more impressive when you consider that these performances were recorded in a mo-cap environment with almost complete lack of any set-pieces. Essentially, they are acting completely blind while also being plastered with mo-cap sensors!
I have nothing but respect for all the people involved. The actors, the animators, the 3d-artists, etc... What they have pulled off in both RDR1 and RDR2 is simply unmatched!
Except John's family.
red dead 1 is revolver
All of these scenes are the definition of “Hello old friend”
especially now that we all know the backstory
6:25
Nice to see Rockstar had a good team for historic accuracy. They absolutely nailed the Victorian phenomenon of floating weapons.
1911 was tail end of the Edwardian era.
That was just Arthur behind him
The way javier changed chapter 1 going out in the mountains and rescuing John and then leaving him behind in chapter 6 then finally trying to kill him and hating him in rdr1
Him and Bill never learned that Micah was the rat. They ran before he was exposed, and still thought it was John who did it and backstabbed Dutch. That's the main reason for their hostility.
Remember how Javier sayed „I guess he would do the same for me“ bevore he rescued John im rdr2 😳
Bill was always the bullied one, insane how back in RDR1 he was such an interesting character already
Me as someone who played RDR2 first before RDR1, this is so sad and painful to see (especially Javier).
Same here
"Now, I'm in charge! No more Dutch, No more Arthur.... and no more you..."
If only.
Let's not forget about Hosea
@@ivan4838Who's Hosea? I don't remember them.
I think it's very telling that Javier & Bill went south to Mexico and Charles went up to Canada. The most wicked characters went down south the join the Devil, while Charles went up north to live a more an honorable life adjacent to God. Meanwhile, Dutch remained in the same place he became his true self and turned wicked. This symbolizes the state of outlaws at the turn of the 20th century. Bill & Javier leave for Mexico as a way of turning back the clock and staying within the realm of the outlaw life. While Charles leaves for Canada as a way of embracing the future. Dutch is himself an amalgation of the two- he is stuck as an outlaw and doomed to wander as a modern Cain, however as your see in RDR1 he now embraces certain mechanisms of the future.
His staying in Blackwater also shows how he is trapped in time. Blackwater is where his life had reached its climax- he changed from an outlaw, his own version of Robin Hood, into a ruthless, money-hungry murderer. Blackwater was the main point of contention within his gang. For him to remain there shows that he never moved on from his gang, nor his outlaw life. Whether he had the money to escape never truly seemed to matter for him. For the thing he had to escape the most was his own nature. Dutch staying in Blackwater symbolizes his innability and refusal to change as well as his innability to accept the changes of the world around him.
Blackwater itself is a perfect metaphor for him. The town is gradually adapting to the wave of the 20th century, with new buildings sprawling alongside the older ones. The symbology and metaphors within this game are incredible and as a writer it amazes me how intricate the details are. Red Dead Redemption is as much a video game as it is a movie, book, or comic. Every detail is masterfully woven in to the story and years later I am still picking apart the pieces of this beautiful story.
If you got to the bottom of this comment, I commend you 😅 I know it was a long tangent lol
Sadie went to Brazil
You’re thinking a lil too much into it
Beautiful analysis brother
you reaching bro you’re making something out of nothing but you have a creative mind I’ll give you that
if mexico is where people go to become evil sadie must be mecha hitler by now
15:44 is it me or dutch sounds incredibly sad saying he never took john for an errand boy?
Yeah, i thought the same.
sounds more like he's mocking John for doing the government's work.
he had a sad tone overall
John is the closest thing he had to a son besides Arthur
People complaining that Arthur wasn't mentioned in the first game etc. The fact is he didn't need to be. The first game's story is centered on John dealing with who's left alive in the gang. Then getting what was always going to come to him in the end. Not mentioning even Arthur in the old game doesn't create plot holes etc. John is hunting the remains of his gang as his family is held hostage by the government. There's no reason to talk in detail about who's not part of his mission. Bill, Javier, and Dutch weren't going to reminisce with John around campfires with John about specific dead gang members while he's hunting them. Let it go and enjoy the games and their stories for what they were.
When he first met Bill , Bill canon wise would have mentioned Hosea and Arthur instead of John since they were actually in charge and John was just a senior gun. I think that’s the only time where Arthur could me mentioned
Yeah, not to mention to Bill and Javier, Arthur really wasn't that important in the first place. Of course, he's important to John (a man who doesn't like to talk about his past in detail, and certainly not with strangers, who comprise the majority of characters he interacts with in RDR1) and he's important to Dutch (who is an antagonist who only appears in the final act of the game).
The fact of the matter is, Arthur is important to US, but it's not likely these men would be talking about him every chance they get, and certainly not in the situations they find themselves in.
in RDR2 arthur is called "uncle", and in RDR1 you have "uncle" at the farm. is it arthur? because in the secret ending of RDR2 arthur survives and is standing on top of the farm.
@@Dupheno??? There’s a character separate from Arthur called Uncle, there’s no secret ending where Arthur lives
@@dawsond4123 ok then I misunderstood the ending.
Our time has passed, John.
I'm so glad Charles, Sadie and Uncle never turned against John!
Dutch definitely shot the girl like that In the black water heist the exact way
One thing I wish in RDR2 was the opening was the Blackwater Heist going to hell and them running instead of just hearing about it.
@@CJVS995nah it’s better that they just mention it, makes the story more unique since everyone’s forced to imagine how they think it went down 😈
100%
6:32 the flying winchester💀
Only in Mexico
A very rare sighting
most dangerous gunslinger in the west
@@smileysatanson3404 and that's kinda weird because Ohio is in the east coast, maybe he moved in the west
@@LibertyPrime2072 most likely
I always felt the gang was pretty underdeveloped, but I guess the real villain was Ross, who got almost double the screen time of these three combined.
Ross just make killed all the main members of the worst gang of the wild wide west and you say he is the villain. 😅
I dont think Ross was a bad guy. Back stabbing John was very dishonourable but I mean he did get rid of the worst gang in the west and in the dialogue, you can hear John's crimes which was pretty terrible, he didnt really deserve a 2nd chance.
Lol great foreshadowing in rdr 2 that Ross' only lines in the game are to Jack to enjoy his fishing
Thanks for this. I was starting to replay rdr1 after finishing rdr2 but decided to find something like this instead, being my only reason to replay. You saved me a ton of time. :)
Bro the first game is so much fuckin fun
@@Nobodynotable1 Still dosent mean playing the first isn't an experience in itself. Honestly it could just be bias since i grew up on these games, but i never think its worse to play the og's over the first games. Of course they're worse, but great in their own way.
@Mike Fitzgerald RDR2 is so boring man, at least in RDR i had fun
@Mike Fitzgerald rag doll animation and the way npc react to getting shot is way better In the first game. You shoot them in the arm, they can’t use that arm. Shoot their knees out and they can’t walk. Shoot their foot and they’ll walk with a limp. It also still had fatal arteries shots as well, the game was far ahead of its time and is worth a play. And imo Rdr John is better than rdr2 Arthur
@@alejandro10751 lol someone didn’t make it past the first chapter
9:36 Fun Fact. John got this line from Dutch right after he fed Angelo Bronte to an Alligator in RDR2.
Dutch talks about nature of man and fighting change before he jumps off the cliff, and he does the same thing with arthur in rdr2
"I'm gonna hand you over to them and watch them tear you limb from limb." "What!?!?!" "Hehe just kiddin'" Classic John
Bro creasing
so glad someone else mentioned that 😭 had me dying laughing
This really makes you realise they gotta rework/remaster this game cuz damn they could do so much with it especially with how good rdr2 was
“We all had her, but he married her.”
So that explains why Jack looks like Javier. He was a group project.
I didnt play red dead 1 before going into Red Dead 2, so I had no idea that dutch, bill, and JAVIER would go bad. This honestly broke my heart. Damn you rockstar
Yeah after Javier sing "Canta y no llores" on RDR2 hurts more
Even now RDR 1 looks so fun
It is fun
The main story is even better than rdr2s IMO, and even though it doesn’t have as many main characters every one feels pretty fleshed out and/or likeable from a writing perspective. Also the ragdolls are better and the guns feel much more powerful than rdr2s.
@@Xpdiant wtf the story in rdr2 is the best story in gaming
@@fps595 that’s just my opinion. If you like RDR2s story better then good for you. Too many retcons for me though
@@fps595 are you a kid? in what way is rdr2 story the best story in gaming? you are eating the overhype friend. rdr2 is amazing in a lot of aspects, but its story is not among the greatest by any means.
This is the reason why you should play this before RD2. Not because it’s the second game, but because of how Bill, Javier, and Dutch were such likable characters and we saw a bigger picture to how/why they went down a dark path. Not only that but understanding how John influenced from Arthur (making his character in RD1 have so much more meaning) It would be hard and depressing it would to play as John with his brothers and later have to kill them, let alone watching Dutch commit suicide with “Our time has passed, John” and then John gets betrayed by Ross, who was there since the beginning. It’s already a dark and depressing story but imagine having to play through this in chronological order.
Nah, I much preferred playing the 2 before the 1 because having to capture/kill your comrades is much more impactful, especially the suicide of Dutch. In the 1, you meet Dutch in only four missions, and you hear little of him before. Having known him throughout RDR2 makes you feel more emotions when he dies in RDR1, like with Bill and Javier. Especially with the speech he makes just before killing himself.
@@Yamcha1717to each their own but I just found it hard to kill Bill and Javier and see what they’ve become compared to seeing what they were before
You know those movies that like to start off with the uhh… fucking ending and then a character does a flashback or time rewinds? (Any story like this is dogshit) That’s how playing RDR1 first would feel like
I watched this game pretty much immediately after I finished RDR2 and I must say, I'm glad I didn't see or watch this before I did the sequel. Everything just makes sense and even this very encounter with Bill, I instantly realized that this isn't the same drunken idiot Bill from RDR2. Javier was whatever, but Dutch especially shocked me how he shot the girl in the bank with no hesitation and just kept mocking John. Dutch grew to be a bastard as I played RDR2, but he still remained somewhat likable at least until the Beaver Hollow chapter. In RDR1, he's just a complete douchebag.
@@_MaZTeR_ imo it was more impactful playing RD1 first because we got to see why Dutch became this way. And it wasn’t just a cliché “He used to be good.”
it was the fact that he was always greedy and narcissistic but it didn’t start showing until everyone started to doubt him. There are moments where you can catch it subtly throughout the second game.
19:08
"Well that, sounds like a beautiful plan, John. . .But I got a better one! It involves Moneh, One Last Train, AND TAHITI"
When Dutch says “I got a plan “ it really makes you think about rdr2
That Cain and Abel comment was funny asf 11:34
6:30 Arthur helping John again!
AHHAHAHAHAHH holy smokes you’re right, I wonder what he thinks about Ray slow and all these other new guys the John Matt, kind of one of the conversation between our invisible Arthur and John
Same thing happened to me. Arthur showed up invisible with his gun. He’s like let’s take the fucking bill down and the other guy to.
I say they simply remaster this game and add a few dialogue changes
Agreed.Wouldn’t need many
Maybe some references to Hosea/Arthur?
@@thetotallyrealsusie absolutely, all of that
Gay@@thetotallyrealsusie
@@LouvreJaramill who… asked?
19:52 Johns intrusive thoughts won
Even though we all knew Dutch went crazy and all but it’s so insane seeing how he was the type man to always try to avoid harming children and innocent women and yet in this game he just straight up shoots a young innocent woman in the back of the head with no remorse. He became ruthless
Well on the black water heist, the one that puts the gang on the run at the beginning of RDR 2, they mention that dutch killed a woman for no reason, meaning his downfall was already started
6:31
Apparently, a ghost helped John fight too.
It’s Arthur
Think if remade RDR1 they could have Arthur appearing now and again like the mysterious stranger in FOs 3 & 4.
That puto line from Javier kills me every time 😂
Bill! Javier! Please think for yourselves for once!
-Arthur Morgan
6:28 lol that flying gun
it was drax
He is a stand user
Arthur came back to help
It was John Cena
I think John been watching Thor and Dr. Strange
I need remake only for one line at 1:58 “No more dutch, no more arthur and no more you”
I clearly get it that John doesn’t like to talk about his past, clearly stated by abigail in RDR2, but come on… why doesnt billl, Javier or Dutch mentions him.
its just the way it is..
That line would make even less sense if that happened. The context was "Now I'm in charge!" and then Bill listing off those who used to be in charge. John was always a foot soldier apparently, and Hosea would be excluded for some reason.
It's obvious, the rdr2 story wasn't even an idea when rdr1 came out.
@@ApricityGlowJohn was kinda more valued than bill tho all the leaders were pretty cool with John. But they all kinda thought bill was dumb so it makes a little sense imo but it’s obviously they just didn’t have a plan for what happened before
I get the idea that they also don't like thinking about Arthur, whether out of spite for their perception of him as a traitor or (more likely) out of regret and not willing to admit or think too much about that they were wrong and kept on going with their way of life for nothing (especially Dutch).
"Bill.. Javier... please, think for yourselves!"
:)
RDR 2 is a amazing prequel because it managed to make everything in rdr 1 feel more impactful.
Crazy think that in Red Dead redemption 1. Bill was a main villain but in Red Dead redemption 2, he was an idiot of the group
Thats what made him so dangerous, all those years of being put down by all of his peers which just worsened his insecurities about his masculinity and his temper imo
His uncertainty in the second game makes his demeanor in the first game make a lot of sense. By Chapter 6, he is so lost, that by 1911, he has succumbed to a lower point.
18:42 This further proves that Dutch's sanity was non existent by 1911
Good video my friend :) just the one I was looking for. Deserves more views.
I like how Javier kept calling john brother " because he really was once a good brother to john , and he also wasn't involved in leaving john behind , that was dutch himself who said , ill go back for him which he didn't , but javier was just focusing on their hiest mission.
Javier was involved, he was with Dutch when he left John
I'd like for Rockstar to remake RDR, improve upon some of the game mechanics, and add in some more dialog and references to RDR2
There are too busy not updateing RDR2 to do that
and its going to stay that way, cry more
They don't need to, RDR is perfect, no need to fix something that is not broken.
@@awarejoker what’s your problem?
No remake is needed. Only a remaster.
The 1st encounter with Bill is kind of sad, John is trying to level with him but like Dutch he's gone mad and John realizes there is no saving them. But I hope if they go for a part 3, we can see what ends up of Charles. He's a really mysterious character and he ends up going North with Rains Falls
21:08
Dutch to John: You can't erase the past John, Killing me won't make it go away.
John to Dutch in RDR2's final mission: Killing me won't solve nothing Dutch
The analogy between the two encounters, both on the top of a snowy mountain, with Dutch saying "We gotta stop meeting like this" in RDR1, and with the whole RDR story beginning in a Snowy Mountain and ending on the same place, GENIUS.
That hovering rifle always gets me
I wish Rockstar didn't abandon the game and installed Mexico in RDR2.
It woulda made the game too big. They never abandoned it, theres already plenty of map
0:24 Jesus Christ I never realized until now how loud he shouts.
I loved how these voice actors were the same in red dead 2 🤝
Man seeing all of these guys come back in the second game just goes so hard
I think my biggest gripe with RDR2 is how, despite being a great character, I feel like Dutch had more potential. Him unraveling and showing his true nature as the world closes in is really fun to watch and I do think they did a wonderful job... but I still have this feeling that they leaned too heavily on his charisma and not enough on his intellect. What I think is really fascinating about Dutch in 1911 is how he's completely hollowed out but obviously not a stupid man. Even John, years later, sticks by a lot of what Dutch taught him in his formative years and clearly quotes him every time he needs a quip or some hand-me-down philosophy. In RDR2, however, Dutch is kinda insecure about his intellect and apparently just quotes from books he reads while doing nothing at camp. He gets hissy at Lenny when he doesn't like Miller's writing, I mean he just comes off as insecure, like he knows deep down he's faking it.
This does not make him a worse character but I just feel like that reading is distinct to RDR2-Dutch, where I always felt that RDR1 Dutch was more an animalistic killer but certainly not a dumb one. I don't know, I just feel like somewhere in an alternate universe we got a more lucid Van Der Linde, who was a bit more impressive. More of a Herman Melville type who was well-learned from life experience and curiosity, who let cynicism hollow him out rather than paranoia and delusions of grandeur.
I just see him as more genuinely convincing in RDR1 despite him literally only doing evil shit for no reason. That either says something terrible about my character or there's a change in *vibes* from 1 to 2. Maybe making a more convincing Van Der Linde would have been a bad idea, you don't wanna actually convince the epic gamers that they should be flower-loving killers, or wear entirely too little clothing in the snow.
Long comment lmao
To your last sentence there, I get the impression in RDR2 that we’re seeing a version of Dutch that is quickly unraveling. From the beginning of the game he’s all insecurity and chasing after sunk costs, and he gets really snippy with Arthur when he questions him even as far back as the Grizzly mountain camp. He’s a man who is still fooling himself that the gang’s best days are ahead of them.
My headcanon for the character is that during RDR2 he truly was falling apart: he was surrounded by people he cared about and who cared about him, but he could see their trust in him eroding and it just forced him to make even greater and more reckless gambits. Meanwhile, RDR1 Dutch is a man on autopilot: he’s leading a pack of nameless, faceless bandits through the death rattle of the Old West. Way more lucid for sure, but also just going through the motions because he accepted long ago that his day is done.
@@geneparmesan8748 Hey thanks for responding, seriously. I don't think the Dutch we got is like *wrong* or anything, I'm just kinda nitpicking and wondering about how else he could have been written. Because, I don't quite agree that Dutch was on full autopilot with faceless bandits. Dutch's gang in 1911 was almost entirely native americans that he manipulated to his doctrine of rebellious chaos.
I think in many ways Dutch is similar to Captain Ahab in his crusade against an abstract concept. I guess the only real bone I have to pick is simply that I don't think making him vain and a hypocrite was really that needed lmao I don't really have much else to argue.
I just played the first game when I was like 13 years old and it always stuck with me how not entirely feral this weird man on the mountain was. That somewhere behind him there was a kind of revolutionary who understood what was wrong in the world but let himself be consumed by the hatred for it, by cynicism and simply the rush of conflict. A soldier without a war, an old gun in peacetime. I guess I was slightly disappointed that in his hayday he was just some lying dork that liked the idea of manifest destiny. I still really like that dork and his arc though ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
That dragged on, sorry about that. What a cool game, eh?
I think you’re right about Dutch being insecure. In RDR1, he didn’t care about it anymore because he had nothing else to lose. In RDR2, he had a facade to maintain in order to keep his gang under control. In RDR1, he kept fighting because that was all he knew and did not trust anyone, just wanted to destroy his enemies.
I think the perception between games is different due to going from an ally of Dutch to an enemy of Dutch, of cource as his enemy and how he has changed he comes off as a lot more methodical, merciless, and cunning but as his peer it's easier to notice where his persona cracks
I think his potential lies in what happened before rdr2 that was his prime regardless of what he might say in the game. That’s jus me tho
The way javier still calls john a brother
Until he’s running away and then caught he immediately reverts to “puto” and insulting his family. Javier didn’t care for John anymore at this point it’s shown he stopped caring for John in chapter 6 of the 2nd game and here he’s only being friendly because he has a gun to his face
@@josephstalin2606 John arrogantly, although rightfully so, deflected each of Javier’s attempts to reminisce.
After being taunted that you’re going to be hung, slammed into the concrete of a jail cell and insulted as if the brotherhood you shared meant nothing (it’s widely understood Javier is the only gang member who actually gave a shit about John after the finale of rdr2), you’d be pretty pissed too.
@@lordogordo9407 Attempts to reminisce? You mean manipulate? You also realize Javier was one of the ones to actually leave John behind too and he had no problems doing so he just silently follows Dutch and Micah and let’s them blatantly lie to Arthur’s face. Javier didn’t care for John after rdr2 at all and him pointing the gun upwards was because he didn’t want to aim at Arthur, not John. Either way when the cutscene ends you see Javier pointing at John anyways so it’s a common misconception that he didn’t aim at all towards them.
As for rdr1, Javier had a gun pointed at him the entire time, he was willing to say anything like “come on you wouldn’t shoot your own brother” not even apologizing for leaving John for dead, and then going as far as to offer up Bill instead (what happened to loyalty?) and even lying about Dutch “being in Columbia and I’ll take you straight to him” which is a blatant lie because nobody knew Dutchs location until he showed up just outside Blackwater so Javier was clearly lying and playing on Johns emotions to get the upper hand. Once Javier has a chance at running away he starts being his true self insulting John and his family and then immediately reverts back to “come on brother don’t do this” when he’s tied up. Once he’s in the cell and has no escape he calls John a “puto” and curses his family. He’s not a good guy at all he just did a good job manipulating the player into thinking so, just like Dutch
@@josephstalin2606 You speak as if Javier had any other choice given the circumstances. He was definitely trying to manipulate and use John’s emotions against him in an attempt to be spared, but when the voice actor himself cooperates with Rockstar to portray the character in a manner that shows he gives a shit about John and Arthur, calling him a bad person is naive
@@lordogordo9407 The fact that you say yourself that the voice actor took creative liberties for the second game, and had to fight just to make Javier seem more of a “good guy” literally proves my point how Javier was never meant to be one in the first place, he was meant to be a scumbag like Bill and Dutch were and the first game (a game the 2nd voice actor had no control over) shows just that. Even in the 2nd game Javier still left John for dead and if it’s something he was truly remorseful for he would’ve apologized to John but he doesn’t even do that, he instead tries to lie to him by saying “we thought you were dead” which Johns reaction after proves he knows Javier is just lying. And did John really have any choice himself? It was between a man who betrayed him and left him for dead and his own family, but John was supposed to just reminisce with Javier and let him go? No bud that’s not how that works. John clearly has wisen up and doesn’t fall for the manipulative bs anymore which is why he coldly deflects Javier
Also, don’t get confused, Javier only cared for Arthur between him and John. I suggest you watch more Beaver Hollow camp interactions because he seems upset that Arthur doesn’t have much faith but in a disappointed way whereas he gets into an argument with John and tells him to get his head straight. And then leaves John for dead. The reason he didn’t point the gun is because he saw Arthur still as a brother, but John had been basically cut off from the gang by that point. You don’t realize that Javier has different relationships with Arthur and John so yes he seemed nicer in the 2nd game because we play as Arthur, once we switch to Johns perspective you see the man Javier was to him
I wish they would remaster both games and combine them into one. I'd pay good money for rdr1 to acknowledge arthur's existence.
This. Decanonize the first game so more can be done with the remake. Updated voices, updated dialogue so that Arthur and Micah are brought up, you could even encounter Sadie Adler in Mexico in a side mission as that is where she says she's headed in the epilogue. They could even give Jack Arthur's jacket in the epilogue or even expand on his story after he kills Ross.
200 gb game
Will be released 20 years later
@@GoodOlRollArthur Fanboys are so annoying. Leave the first game alone. So tired of my favorite game ever being disrespected by people who have only played the second game or played it first.
Let The characters from the first game be their own characters, let the story of the first game be it's own story with its own new characters and don't drag John and his own game to elevate Arthur once again. Also Sadie said South America, that's not Mexico. Which is good, I couldn't stand her. Definitely wouldn't want her in a remake
@@gageowo9527 I'm no Arthur fanboy friend. In fact, I'm all for them portraying John as the badass he was in the first game. That being said however, the two games do not mesh well together plot-wise. Some updated dialogue is needed. Arthur doesn't need to be elevated but the way the characters just avoid talking about him or Micah or what happened on Mount Hagan is off-putting. Seeing Sadie in Mexico is just a fun idea, but I'd be just as fine with her not being present.
I haven't got the chance to play rdr2 yet, and i never expectrd john to just immediately get "fuck offed" when he tried to draw his gun in the first one. It was honestly kinda funny 🤣
" I'm gunna give you over to them and watch them tear you limb from limb!" " I'm just kiddin."
Antagonise + defuse
I’d passed this game when I was 16 and I didn’t appreciate it until the second game. I didn’t realize how amazing this game was.
I feel bad for them
6:27 the flying gun is the best charakter in this whole video
Wow, so all the villain interactions combined in RDR 1 can be condensed to a 23 minute video? Rockstar really did them all a favor with the hours of characterization added in RDR 2.
Well yeah, literally the whole point was hunting them down dude.
Its definitely canon that john and arthur struggle with the horse functions
This is honestly a story "a man who goes back to where he was to kill his family who has the potential to kill the world(etc.) Even tho he doesnt want to."
Damn, grand theft horse has come a long way
I remember playing red dead 1 all summer going into my senior year of high-school. I was so satisfied with it that when rd2 came out i didnt even care. 5 years later, i just started playing rd2 and its great. But red dead 1 will always be my favorite of the series, probably because of my nostalgia and playing as john.
I always thought it was strange how John is so nonchalant about everything like you straight fight in a mexican revolution and it’s like nothing to him after playing rdr2 you see why the gang brought mayhem everywhere they went
Of all things rdr2 showed I think thats the best. John is such a terminator it's nice to see it wasnt just out of nowhere. He was half groomed as arthur was to be a gang enforcer.
@@kestrel1917 Dutch, Arthur, Bill, Micah and Javier ended up on Guarma...not John. He was locked up in the Pen...
It’s because it’s not really his fight, he jumps from side to side multiple times until he’s betrayed by the government and forced to find help with the rebels. He’s only really fighting just for information on Javier and Bill and once he gets that he leaves Mexico. This is also just a part of the war not the whole thing since Reyes says that after Allende he will march his army to the capital and fight there which John obviously wasn’t present for
@@zeked4200 Just as well as can’t swim.
0:53
"You always did think I was an idiot"
"That ain't fair Bill...
Everyone thought you were an idiot"
Arthur Morgan was the glue that kept it all together I’m just now realizing it that’s why his character resonated so much in rdr2
It was more Hosea than anything that held the group together. He kept Dutch in check and listened to Arthur. Once he died and Dutch got that head injury, Dutch progressively became more unhinged.
I wish we saw Charles in RD1 helping John out
He left to Canada I believe
Or probably John mentioned about him
@@redhawktanaka8826 yeah he went to live and help out Rains Fall
Dutch really appears crazy and miserable in rdr1 when all shiny and leader in 2, But was mad all along, the moments he said the word "plan" for the 3rd time in rdr2 i knew it was over x)
It's like RDR1 was written for RDR2. Everything fit in just perfectly.
My impression Is that Rockstar's writers already had a cheap backstory of the gang, but they put everything in a far background for another story. Maybe there was even an idea for Arthur Morgan, but there was no complete character for sure.
All they did in RDR2 was taking the original backstory and just improve It with the main character point of view. The story Is too solid, they already knew how to write RDR2, they just added things later.
Both games are masterpieces, the best of Rockstar's portfolio in my opinion, together with GTA IV and San Andreas.
The music in rdr1 was just next level
Dutch broke my heart. I never played the first Red Dead but when I see those cutscenes it just makes me so emotional. Red Dead 2 is sad...but Red Dead 1 is hopeless.
I’m so glad we got so much more of Dutch through RDR2. I always felt so disappointed in the lack of time we seen him in the og game because he’s an incredible character. His monologues were the most memorable and to some extent, I seen him more as a cornered animal taking one last grasp of control in a world that’s got him.
Now I’m like - “offt Splatty McCracksalot bouncing off the rocks too hard???”
6:28 John is so good with guns he uses Arthurs ghost as weapon stand.
Imagine if he put the strange man who everyone thinks is josiah trelawny
I think Dutch was actually interested in Johns life in the past 4 years
Imagine a shooting western like this but like elden ring.. Hard npcs so you don’t need 40 enemies to make it seem epic
I kinda want games to be more like that I jus can’t get into gameplay if I can run around taking bullets to the head and jus take a medicine to heal and then kill like 20 people with dead eye. I wish ur npc allies actually were really helpful and the enemy npcs were really dangerous
Man dude it’s Ben so long I remember it all now the desert the mountains the fort crazy I forgot about it just not the desert part but this brings it all back wow thanks for this awesome back to the future video literally feel like I’m back when this first came out and replaying it for the first time the graphics and all 😂👍🏻😭🤙🏻👏🏻🙏🏻
I was on PlayStation though baby all good I had the ps2 and 3 and the Xbox 360 and x whatever for halo and gears of war
In a sick way dutch was totally right when he told john he was ashamed john was working with the government, they turned on him just like that
Imagine if Javier tried to push the box only to find the box too heavy and he just awkwardly laughs before making off like Speedy Gonzalez.
Red dead 2 is great I love it but I'll always love this one more. So much nostalgia
Dutch is right you can’t erase what you did and nothing will make it go away
Didn't see much of this game until after the second, aeeing the gang members so. . .crazed and animalistic, especially Dutch, REALLY breaks my heart.
It’s you or me might as well be you. Love how they use a similar line in RDR two it’s us or him might as well be him.