Are Version 2 Characters Still Good? | Genshin Impact
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 ต.ค. 2023
- Since many of you enjoyed the Version 1 video I decided to make the same video on Version 2 characters! Today we'll be discussing if units like Ayaka, Shogun, Itto, Yoimiya, Ayato, etc. are still good.
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So regarding my Yun Jin evaluation I zeroed in on her attack speed boosting aspect without giving enough credit to her attack damage boost via her ultimate and I should've at least mentioned that part too. But I stand by the opinion that at the present moment she's just outclassed by a number of other damage augmenting supports with better universal application that even within her own niche there are plenty of other choices you would want to pick before you arrive at her. She definitely has potential to return to form if we have other hp/def scaling normal attackers like @yeguang7095 said but compared to where she was when she first came out to where she is now, like I said in the video: instead of enhancing normal attack damage/speed there are supports who can either just boost total damage (not just for one person but for the entire party) or they themselves can bring the damage.
Technically speaking Yun Jin is niche, but pragmatically speaking her niche is extremely overrideable. She would need to provide offensive bonuses on the level of Shenhe to make players want to consider fielding her when they can field more damage, as opposed to Shenhe where her cryo enhancement is SO big and all encompassing (covers attacks, skills, bursts, etc.) that there's veritable reason to use her over Bennett/Xingqiu/Kazuha/Yelan/Shogun/etc. in regards to supporting. For teams where you could field Yun Jin such as boosting Yoimiya or Ayato damage, you could replace her with anyone else. Point being she does have a niche but doesn't do it good enough, which is why I consider her benched.
I would also like to add that atk speed isnt as bad of a stat as it may seem because its a multiplier that applied at the very end of your dmg calculation which makes it more valuable than atk%(sometimes)(something like resistance shred but not per hit and instead over time) its not that good but its noticable because for na characters youll find that being able to fit in a few more hits into your combo increases your dps
It mainly hasnt gotten the time of day like dmg% or other per hit stats but for characters that can make use of it it's pretty good
I never understood the Shenhe hype, she gives the same damage buff for 6 attacks so those being any attack type results in overall less damage than Yunjin anyway, unless you run additional Cryo units beyond your hypercarry to trigger the buff on all those units.
The real problem with Yunjin is that most top tier carries don't work with her, only the "okay" category does, like Yoimiya, Ayato, Wanderer, etc.
If Raiden's attacks were considered normal attack damage, Kokomi could Crit, etc, she'd be much better.
@@SeravySensei ?
i mean after arguing she is replaceable and almost put yae in god carry while she is also very replaceable (fischl for dmg/kuki for hyperbloom) is a little wut while yun jin offers more unique support
I think attack speed boosts could be a creative way of powering through ICD.
Alternatively ICD could just be reworked or, dare I say, removed entirely... Or maybe at the very least have the game officially address it.
Sayu powercreep everyone in exploration tho. She heals, giving anemo resonance, makes crystalflies easier to catch, mining ores, and going from point A to B so much faster all in one package
Honestly, decided to give her a shot and I was surprised that she’s as useful as she is
Yelan & Wanderer powercreep sayu
@@Benrir.Yelan works well with sayu.i have c1 yelan and I still use sayu. C1 yelan and sayu fit really well with eachother since their skill cooldowns align pretty well with eachother
@@Randomguy-fi5bt With C1 Yelan you never run out of stamina, there is no point to slot in Sayu.
@@Palcii sayu is still faster than sprinting (i think? haven't played the game in a couple months)
I would argue that Yun Jin belongs in niche since her Normal Attack bonus damage is comparable to Bennett’s Atk buff. She would be even better if future characters have normal attacks that purely scales of Hp and Def; being a dmg support means she’s always going to get better over time.
but Bennett buffs the entire party, their normals, their skills and their bursts.
Yunjin only buffs the normal attack, and you won't play a team with just Yunjin and a normal attack
And thats besides Bennett being a healer which makes him infinitely superior to Yunjin
While I do think judging characters on their future potential is a little too vague, I still agree that Yun Jin belongs in niche, mostly because we've seen how things have been developing in Sumeru and Fontaine. Sumeru did give us a non-reaction focused DPS than can do a lot of NAs (Wanderer), and Fontaine so far has had a lot of fun with HP scaling characters, NA-centric characters, and non-reaction focused characters.
Having an element-unreliant niche also means that she doesn't fall into the trap that Gorou did; If your element and/or archetype doesn't get anything new, your performance doesn't change (and possibly even gets worse). It's incredibly unlikely we go an entire region without getting an NA-centric character, while we've already gone one region without getting a 5* Cryo character and any Geo character. (And the only Pyro char is Dehya) Heck, the only new Electro DPS hates Sara with a burning passion.
same she works with normal attack units like wanderer very well too
@@Enric.True, and snapshotting truly makes or breaks certain characters *side glances at Xiangling*
I would honestly argue that she never been good, coming from a Yoi main who lvld and used her ones. She got released after Bennet who does the same in terms of dmg buffing, but with healing and she got released after Fischl and Xingqui who also increase my Yoimiyas attack dmg with their off field capability, probably a lot better. She's just is and always been so replaceable
Yun Jin’s primary role is buffing normal attacks, I think you’re mixing her up with Mika. She gets the attack speed buffing at I think around c4 or c6
Yea idk how they got that wrong
Yea the attack speed buff is just a bonus from c6, it’s nowhere near her main role. I think he doesn’t even look at the character for these and just goes off memory. Love ya Vars but come on at least glance at the wiki
She buffs speed and damage
@@BigRheno At C6 she buffs speed, otherwise she does not.
Yun Jin is a staple on my rainbow Yoimiya team for her NA bonus
Not a bad tierlist, but I dont agree with your reasoning for Heizou, the existence of better characters doesnt make characters out right bad. Heizou is still very much usable and capable unit.
I think the problem with this argument is that in these games you have to directly compare units to each other. If they fall short compared to everyone else, they are objectively “bad”.
@@ayy-din9116 great point, I won't contribute to the discussion though
@@LongDeadArtist lmao fair enough
Another problem with this argument is that content like the abyss is balanced to the better units so as power level goes up content difficulty goes up and heizou is left behind, even though his power level has not changed.
I agree, he did judge him quite harshly, considering that Raiden suffers from the same issue, not actually being the BiS for any of the teams, but she was still evaluated as God carry for versatility
I'd honestly argue that heizou was a bit unfairly placed because he was never meant to support, and yet you compared him to three supports , it's understandable to compare him to wanderer and xiao cuz all three of them are DPS units and if you'd just compared him to them from the start it would make more sense for him to not be the best , but comparing a dps to supports and then saying he was never good cuz he doesn't support as well isn't really fair imo .
Him as a dps is laughable anyways😂
Compare him with Xiao or Wanderer still dont fair tho. He is a 4* DPS a role of 4* that can't be good anyways. Most of them is playable but cant be a good unit if use the same logic that Vars use to Heizou.
@@bas7489 well yeah but my main point was that comparing him to xiao or wanderer would be more fair cuz they fill the same role that he does and is atleast some grounds to criticise him, however comparing a DPS like heizou to a support like sucrose when they don't have the same role and then saying he's not good because he doesn't support as well as sucrose does just isn't fair. Because sucrose is a cc and swirl support while heizou's supposed to be a DPS
@@superherounivers4223 Yeah i agree with you with that point.
he probably did that bcs that's the only way he could be viable (as a driver). if he compared him to the dpses (scara n xiao) he literally wouldn't stand a chance. vars comparing him to sucrose was him being generous lol
I can't wait for "Why everyone uses Furina" in a few weeks
Legitimately the only archon with an actual "personality"
@@khadizaanwarjolly5779 venti mains in shambles
@@TheNratdrunkard and depressed don't count
@@khadizaanwarjolly5779 probs cause the other Archons feels one noted with their emotions, with the exception of Nahida, who went through hell and back during her Archon quest
Venti is just a drunk bard even when his city is under attack, steps in to help a bit, laughs a little, sneeze to cat, and leave
Zhongli is very much the definition of stone hard, he spews out either lore or wise shits and that's that
and Ei is played as a purely ignorant NEET just learning of the outside world after 500 years OR a literal war-machine with a rigid ruleset that is the Shogun
probably its because these characters are already so old they're just used to whatever things the world throw at them, they're probably a lot more expressive during the early days of the Archon wars. Furina is still an unknown case cause we don't know the circumstances of her character yet.
@@khadizaanwarjolly5779nahida?
Yelan is hands down one of the most insane characters to this day. She’s so insanely overpowered
and i wonder if furina will beat her in teams that requires less hydro app, like she has a bigger but riskier buff but less application.
And not only that, so damn comfy even at C0. She's one of the best designed characters in the game.
@@jeffulloa218 oh man she's so comfy and having a 2nd xingqiu is like a godsend.
@@usmanya5110ye, I’m also quite curious about that. Haven’t looked at leaks much, but my big hope for furina is that she takes a different niche from kokomi and yelan. Like, somewhere in between
@@jeffulloa218mhm. Also her early constellations r rlly good. I was vry lucky to get c1 and c2, and imo they’re not needed but they’re so good
Heizou vs Wanderer/Xiao would've been a better comparison from the beginning because of his role instead of comparing him with Sucrose and Kazuha.
The thing is - he can do both roles. Feels kinda bias to give others points for flexibility, but not to him.
Nah it's even worse if you compare him to Wanderer and Xiao, at least heizou could give you EM
I think just considering a simple fact that anemo options which are easily accessible to the majority of the playerbase outside of the limited 5 star category immediately showcases why Heizou is probably the best option. He's not Kazuha/Venti/Sucrose but those are literally the best anemo characters in the game. Add to that fact that he's a 4 star, he's the only reliable driver after Sucrose when you don't have the 5 star options.
Wanderer is still better at driving than Heizou. And does more damage.
The sole reason to pick Heizou over any other driver is the playstyle. No. Not even that. His animations. It looks freakin cool, but that's it.
@@mylittledota4653 "Wanderer does more damage" yeah, because Heizou is a _four-star._ How is that a remotely valid argument??
Yoimiya should’ve been given the normal attack ability like Itto and “Wriothsley”(idk how to spell it) where you can still complete your attack combo after you dodge
Even Nilou has this for her elemental skill, and she is a support character.
Honestly should just be basekit for every character it's not like normal atks don't need the help
I'm confused as to why you're comparing heizou with sucrose? They don't remotely have the same role at all and the only similarity is that they're anemo catalysts. Sucrose is a swirl crowd control support who's most comparable to kazuha, not heizou, and heizou is a main dps. I would understand if you said heizou isn't good because we have wanderer who's also an anemo main dps catalyst, but no, for some reason you compared him to sucrose? It kind of makes it seem like you don't know what you're talking about.
I would tend to agree with you, except that he can be used as an on field driver. If you look at some of the videos about how to build him when he first released, most of them focused on his on field driving ability. I use him as a dps though and he always surprises me with his damage.
They both can have roles as a drivers, Heizou can be built as dps and as driver as well, but he didnt get bonus points for flexibility in this tier list, unlike others.
@n0_re4lreasn.0_o7 he's clearly meant to be an on-field dps though by design. He's kind of like yanfei, where she is clearly meant to be an on field dps but you can chose to make her a support from her shield constellation. In fact i feel like heizou doesn't have much use for the same reason that yanfei does, the fact that they are 4 star dps when there are better options
he's noticeably far too opinionated in this video.
Because him being a anemo unit indirectly compares to everyone else.
Him being the only 4* anemo dps also makes him compare to wanderer or xiao which are infinitely better and there are bassically no teams where you cannot swap him out for someone with the same accessibility but give you way much more in return.
Him being a anemo dps and a okay - ish dps isn't an argument when this tier list is all about how powerful a character is on the current meta and how interchangeable they are
Heizou is good in nukes but his dps is really mediocre. Wanderer and xiao might have smaller numbers per attack but they make up for it for far better aoe and single target dps that completely outshines heizou's nukes
I would argue that him being in "never was good" tier is kind of wrong though.
Also he is pretty flexible as a driver but somehow vars didn't give him credit for that? Maybe he just forgot idk 😬
Yin Jin’s main aspect of her kit is normal attack damage buff not normal attack speed that’s just her c6, I believe she should be in niche cus I can see how she would be more relevant as more normal attackers come out
right, and to think yunjin is a key unit to use with Ayato & Yoimiya both uses NA as main source of dmg in of itself should classify her as a niche. This is the most lazily put together video I've seen of this TH-camr.
Putting Sara in niche and then putting Gorou in benched just seems a bit contradictory. Geo works almost exclusively of Gorou and Itto relies on him a lot to get the proper support he needs.
You mention Sara not being BiS that much anymore for the very thing she's supposed to do in team comps but Gorou gets put in benched despite being very literally the best option for Geo focused teams doesn't make sense. You can argue that because of Itto's damage falling off a bit lately that Gorou doesn't have a place but that's more of an issue of his damage carry being worse than him not being able to do his job. He provides everything his teams need, it isn't him being the weak point. I think he still fills the niche he's suppose to but his carries aren't as good as they use to but still useable.
EXACTLY.
Eh, Sara has more versatility than Gorou. Sara provides a universal atk buff (electro crit damage buff at c6) and many many characters use attack (granted, no one is using her over Bennett). Gorou buffs defense which basically only geo characters scale off of (plus xinyan). I agree Gorou should probably be in niche, but he’s in benched because basically every geo character except Zhongli (who is also slowly being phased out) is benched.
Ah, you mentioned a point I haven't realized: "Sara not being BiS that much anymore for the very thing she's supposed to do in team comps but Gorou gets put in benched despite being very literally the best option for Geo focused teams doesn't make sense".
In one hand, the tierlist could be aimed towards measuring how valuable a character is meta-wise (e.g. Gorou only being in Mono Geo teams, which is already an off-meta team, makes Gorou get seen as Non-Meta). On the other hand, the tierlist could be seen by looking at each character's offensive contribution to a team, even if that team isn't Meta-relevant (e.g. Kujou Sara doesn't contribute much to Raiden Hypercarry teams and can be reasonably replaced with other characters, while Gorou is a non-replaceable unit in Mono Geo teams).
I'd also further argue that Raiden Hypercarry isn't a meta team either, which should put Kujou Sara to a lower tier than Gorou in my opinion.
@@thelobotomobile electro atk scalers dont even want sara in their teams. and electro is supposed to be the battery element, but she cant even battery nor utilize favonius
yeah, and kuki is niche too, cuz without dendro she is useless
With the predicted release of Navia in 4.3 and a supposed other 5-star geo character, I do hope they'll improve and utilize things like crystallization and stat buffs. With the 4-star HP claymore on banners, I wonder whether or not Navia or a future hydro claymore would be able to use its HP and EM benefits.
I don't really see how navia alone is supposed to improve anything. If at all navia will be a nice character to use individually but she's obviously not gonna change fundamentally the clunky aspects of geo, unlike how all electro units could more or less benefit from the introduction of dendro
Itto despite being a strong damage dealer didn’t lift geo off the ground or didn’t save geo by any means. Raiden didn’t save electro from the ground. It was DENDRO a new element who made electro relevant again.
What I’m trying to say is that Navia will not “save” geo regardless of what she does. She will only lift herself off the ground.
@@ghotifish1838Right.
The leaks so far about Navia show that she boosts her damage by absorbing crystallize shards- a sub DPS at lower constellations and a main DPS at higher constellations
watch navia be on standard and no changes made to the geo element
Sayu was almost forgotten it seems.
Yun Jin definitely deserves better especially if we're looking at her with constellations, she focuses on normal atk damage increase. She's indispensable for my Yoimiya team and she works on many different teams she's a versatile yet niche unit not benched. Only Yun Jin and Candace directly boost normal attack damage.
Definitely downplaying Heizou, he is one of the best elements in the game, with a small em buff and also has decent on field damage to drive teams that require normal attacks. He's a capable and decent unit for what he wants to do even if there's another who is better then him. He's a versatile unit who can be used in many teams even if he's not best, just like how characters like Ayato and Raiden can be used in a lot of teams but isn't best. I think he belongs in ok.
If anything the more normal attack characters we see the more appealing Yunjin becomes, she’s a Geo character who has a universal use, that’s priceless in her class
Heizou's niche is having the best birthday art.
Mono Geo is definitely still Okay at least. I play my Itto team every now and then just because I love playing itto and I'm always surprised how easily it clears abyss. Geo doomerism is so prevelant that I forget how strong my mono geo team actually is (it is high invested and really well optimized tho)
Mono geo is not ok, mono geo with characters that were designed for mo o geo is ok. There's a very big difference there your mono geo team works not because of Geo, or any inherent capabilities of the Geo element. It works because the characters were made to work in that specific environment. So geo is indeed bad, despite itto and others working very well together.
but the fact that as he mentioned mono geo being rendered obsolete is not true tho right becuz in the very context lynney bringing mono pyro didnt disappoint ppl...(atleast vars in this case as he sounds) so the fact that an element being bad shouldnt contribute to a character being bad like how vars just straightup put gorou and itto in benched....idk man
@@saiprasad3584 Yeah people like to say geo is obsolete because it hasnt changed or improved with new additions to the game (which is a huge bummer). But it was never bad to begin with so saying it is obsolete is just silly. If Mono Geo is bad because hyperbloom exists then so is every other team archetype. People will really just believe whatever they hear when it comes to teams they dont play/build smh
Just because something is over the top doesnt mean other options are bad if you can still clear content with ease. And Itto does just that.
But his tier list has still pretty good and okay tier. Obviously when you have the Mono Geo team it is still pretty good. There's no way he is benched in a sense he's not good anymore.
Saying mono geo is rendered obsolete makes it pretty clear you don't use it, "rendered obsolete" is implying it isnt even usable. i have C2 itto and he pretty much matches most of my teams dps and clears abyss with zero issue 2 years later.
Yunjin is Shenhe for normal attacks.
It's a massive flat damage buff of the same type.
ASPD is just a secondary effect and C6 locked too.
She should be in niche.
Also Thoma should be in niche because he does not trigger his shield without spamming normal attacks.
Did you not read the comment he made?
@@Arisxgoni dont think he did 😱
I agree
Vars said thoma is good in burgeon and then said hes also OKAY in a hu tao team (while failing to mention that he could steal vapes from hutao) and because hes good in 1 niche team and just okay in another team hes better than niche somehow?
Also his analysis of yun jin and heizou was so wack, but hes biased about all the geo's and all the anemo/dendro dps's so i didnt expect him to say anything good about them
@@log3ckert386thoma is good as defensive option on hypercarries that use bennett. yoi, wanderer, even xiao with modified attack strings. thats 3 viable team archetypes (burgeon, hutao, hypercarry).
edit: also, burgeon is not just one team. there are so many team compositions that use burgeon, and thoma is the bis on more than half of them
@@log3ckert386he can be used in burnmelt with wrio so that gives him another really good niche so 🤷♂️
I will say this again and again, people underestimate the versatility of Ayato, Ayato was never meant to be a hyper-carry, he is best use as the Driver/ main DPS slot for any team archetype that needs hydro, he doesn’t need to change builds around, you build him as the normal DPS with good gear and you can slap him anywhere. In my opinion he should be a higher tier over Yoimiya just for the fact that he is a hydro character.
Of the characters you mention that compete with Heizou, only Sucrose is a 4 star. Heizou outlaces her for anemo damage as a DPS, and is on par with Ningguang for personal damage. The main reason Heizou's release was awkward was because he came so late that most players would have already heavily invested into better non-anemo 5 stars DPS, else a 4 star team that heizou wouldn't have added much to (unlike support Sucrose). Basically Heizou came too late to be useful to long-term players. It's not because he was outpaced by Venti (who was not very effective against Inazuma enemies), Xiao, or Wanderer.
True but then again he put Ningguang in "was never good" too so I feel like he just hates 4* main dps. He's ranked Ningguang, Heizou, Razor, Yanfei etc all at very low tiers.
Thoma is also used in other teams like Wanderer where he is even better than with Hu Tao. Thoma gives your Bennett energy and Bennett gives Thoma energy. The one advantage that Zhongli might have had with Tenacity set is eliminated because c6 Faruzan is a much better Tenacity user. In addition Zhongli resist shred is not as useful because Faruzan already shreds anemo resist a lot more. So his only purpose is a shield while Thoma provides pyro aura, pyro energy, and charge attack damage at c6. It is very minor but Thoma also lets you swirl pyro in AoE. This matters when you need to break shields.
"if we want, we also have Jean [for Anemo healing]."
Even for day one accounts that's not a given. I can't say that it's my situation, but the scattershot nature of going for *anything* that isn't featured means that it's still totally realistic that someone playing from Day 1 could still not have Jean, or Mona or whoever else.
You also forgot the "Aloy" tier.
Can’t wait to see Sayu’s value increasing heavily with Furina’s release
Fr I think she will be suprising
so hopium
Mid even in the best timeline
Zhongli's tenacity set and resistance shred actually overtakes pyro resonance in a Hu Tao team by a significant margin
Zhongli's strength imo is that by being geo, you can slot him into any team that needs a shield and he won't interfere with that team's reactions, while additionally providing 20% atk and 20% all res shred
idk if i agree with Heizou’s portion. I could potentially be convinced of his placement there, but the reasoning being that you can just use Sucrose feels off considering they’re entirely different and their only similarities are Anemo and Catalyst user. Sucrose, while she can do damage, is very much focused on buffing and supporting the reactions of her teammates. Heizou, on the other hand, is much more oriented to dps/skill dps. It doesn’t feel accurate to take Heizou, someone who’s usually meant to have the team built around him, and compare him to someone like Sucrose who’s entire purpose is different
I don’t think he belongs in Never Good. Maybe Benched would be better bc Heizou can certainly be a good unit if you build around him like you’re supposed to, as opposed to trying to slot him into other teams as a support
yeah he compares heizou to units that main role is buffing😂 "he was never that good to begin with" yet everyone and their mother lost their minds when c0 level 40 heizou can casually deal 80k skill dmg😂
If I’m being honest having yoimai and thoma in the same category is just crazy
Is it?
I agree
agree, yoimiya is 💩
thoma should be higher because stuff like burgeon and burn melt is just better than yoimiya LMAO
@@nezolar ?
you can always count on vars for bad takes
My only gripe about your approach to this is that its pure combat focused. You even realized that Sayu was prob niche for the fact she is S tier explorer. She might not be the best for combat, but she is really useful for farming and gathering as well as moving. She is so useful for the other half of the games mechanics.
This is purely focused on the Abyss. Every character is good on their own, but not all of them can keep up with the Abyss and other units, that's all.
This video is more about usability, flexibility and efficiency in the meta of genshin nothing else
I guess she is the best 4 star explorer but Yelan and Wanderer are far superior. So even in exploration she got powercrept.
I mean, there's not much to talk about outside of combat, though? Like "Ayaka can cross through water", "Yoimiya can light torches", etc. aren't interesting points for a video. They don't spark meaninful discussion nor do they require high levels of analysis.
That's kind of the point of the video
poor aloy was forgotten XD i was expecting her to be put in the "was never good" category but forgetting about her like mihoyo did is hilarious
L take. Heizou is not Kazuha or Sucrose, he is more like Alhaitham or Wriothesley. He is a very good unit with double atk arti pieces. His normals do 20k and his skill easily does 500k. You should not build him as an anemo support.
Exactly
hes even worse when evaluated as a carry lmao
@@googlrscholarhes a sub dps driver, not a carry
Where did this 500k comes from bruh?
yeah 500k is high, best ive done is 350k@@anyaaa2801
A lot of people are so focused on the tier placements of characters that they don't think about the reasoning behind why Vars puts those characters in those tiers.
You are free to disagree with his reasoning, of course (e.g. I think Raiden and Kokomi should have been put in a lower tier), but I can understand where his justification is coming from. Utimately, he values different things from a unit than what I value, and that's okay.
And now, a few nitpicky comments (not about the placements specifically, but about the reasoning behind the placements):
1. I agree with Thoma being okay, but I'd like to add that, outside of Burgeon teams, some noteable teams people have used him in are Burnmelt Wrio teams where he can be combined with Nahida to achieve burning for Wrio to melt off of and Wanderer/Xiao teams where he provides Pyro resonance and helps battery Bennett. Thoma isn't often used with Hu Tao, even in her VV Vape teams where you WANT to have off-field pyro for Kazuha/Sucrose to swirl. I think Thoma fits the "niche" category in this sense since these are the only teams where his kit actually offers some utility, and even in these teams, he's not the BiS or anything, but "okay" fits well too.
2. While I do think Ayaka stays in "pretty good", Cryo not synergizing with Dendro isn't the reason Cryo is falling behind. The reason Cryo is falling behind is that abyss lately haven't included freezable content, and Melt is a lot more janky to make viable compared to Vaporize. Mono Cryo is fine, though. In my opinion, she has fallen off a little.
3. I think Yun Jin and Kujou Sara share a more similar powerlevel than Shenhe and Kujou Sara, and while I understand Kujou Sara and Shenhe both fulfill the role of being "niche", it doesn't speak to their individual strengths (or weaknesses) when they're put side by side. And, if you're going to be putting them together in niche, Yun Jin might as well fit there too. I would PERSONALLY place Yun Jin in niche, but I can see an argument for her to be benched (however, that argument for her to benched should apply to Kujou Sara as well). The problem with Yun Jin is that she's a support that needs above average artifact and primogem investment while also having ER issues in any solo geo team. Yun Jin's buffs also run out quickly in anything outside of boss content. Her being Geo isn't useless though: She helps activate Geo resonance when used with Zhongli, typically seen in a Yoimiya team.
4. I agree with Yae Miko's placement, but I don't agree with comparing her to Fischl. Yae Miko currently thrives in Quicken-based teams, with her upsides best seen when playing her as an electro sub-DPS in a Spread team. However, she's most popularly played as an Aggravate driver alongside Fischl (which is why I think it's disingenuous to compare the two when they work wonderfully together).
5. I don't know about putting the Geo characters (Itto and Gorou) in benched. They have definitely fallen off, but they're not "unviable". Maybe a less polarizing word for benched could be used, or just put Itto in "okay" and Gorou in "niche".
6. In my opinion, Ayato's role in a team is more synonymous to Kokomi's role in a team, and if Kokomi can be put in "God Carry" when all she does is be a decent hydro driver in hydro-reaction-based teams, then Ayato should be given the same treatment as Kokomi. However, I won't deny that Kokomi DOES have higher comfort and has more teams where she's significant in compared to Ayato.
I would argue Ayato, because as you said, he fits perfectly in just any possible teams unlike Childe and gain buffs from any support in the game unlike Neuvilette. So if you put Kokomi in highest tier for the reason of being one of the most versatile units in the game, Ayato is the same case, but a little worse. So oblectively at least "pretty good" tier for him. If Sara is in Niche, then Junjin must be also, and as other guys said in comments, her na buff is comparable to Bennet's Q allowing you to put Benny in other party. Finally comparing dps unit Heizou with supports like Kazuha/Sucrose is just kekw
I think you were a bit harsh on sayu. Here's why, she is the only anemo healer that can scale off EM so she is a good user of swirl and on top of that she heals just as good as jeane, so she heals and does alot of dmg at the same time just like kuki (not as broken of course) but she heals infinitely better than her and well yes the exploration aspect is there too (I for one never slotted her out because of the exploration lol).
I agree with your spot for Yae, but for different reasons. Sure the triple electro team exists, but it isn't great unless you are mega invested and you are using it to speedrun since the damage distribution is uniquely good for speed running. The spread team is, yes, one if the better options but if that is all she had I wouldn't think so highly of her. Instead she is best in an on-field role in an aggravate team, where that team is one of the best in the game. Its a quick swap team that takes advantage of the way Fischl's a4 interacts with aggravate consisting of Yae, Fischl, Dendro, and flex. Dendro is either Nahida, DMC, or one of the defensive options, and the flex spot is between Kazuha, Sucrose, Zhongli, and then maybe kuki or a dendro defensive option. Best damage wise is Yae, Fischl, Kazu (sucrose technically provides better damage but Kazuha has better grouping), and Nahida, switch out Kazuha for Zhongli for what is IMO the best version of the team.
Thoma outside if burgeon teams is actually really good in Wanderer teams, but in vape teams he is a downgrade to Zhongli.
I would argue Shenhe can escape from Niche due to being used in 3 comps, mono Cryo, Freeze, and reverse melt. The other dedicated supports, however, dont have that much variety because all they really do is hypercarry.
Itto and gorou deserve a higher placement than that. Mono geo Really hasn't "fallen off" in fact it has similar damage to Yoimiya teams, and i would argue he should be higher than Yoimiya given that His team fills a niche whereas Yoimiya is effectively a worse version of hu tao except for flying enemies. Either way they should be in the same tier. Gorou deserves niche for obvious reasons.
Heizhou should not be in never good, he's not intended to compete with Kazuha, hes supposed to be a on-filder for a quick swap team. His teams aren't amazing but you have to think about on-fielders differently from off-fielders, if you had to be the best in your role or don't see play then a TON off on-fielders like Yoimiya Keqing and Tighnari would be in benched or never good. Granted i don't want to put him in the same tier as Yoimiya Thoma or Ayato but that is an issue of the tier list not his issue.
Ayato Mika Thoma is a really good team. The other one can be a dendro or another hydro.
There is a dramatic difference between Ayato with atk spd buff vs Ayato with no atk spd buff.
One thing I'll add is Ayato is very good at wide aoe hydro application when built as a burst unit. He is much simpler than hydro+anemo (plus role consolidation)and also has the advantage of being Nilou compatible.
As an Ayaya main, I’m sad to agree with you, I wish the “Frozen” aura was there even when they can still move, that alone would make a bunch of Cryo units so much better. Also, a tip for anyone who wants to main her that I wish I knew before I picked her, she can not farm for her own artifacts. The enemies are immune/resistant to Cryo in her domain, so make sure you have some other team/characters that can farm for her. That, or just strongbox all the Shiminawa pieces that we got when we were wanting Emblem pieces (please oh please have mercy on me domain gods)
Some fun ideas for geo reactions if crystalise were to be removed:
Splash: hydro and geo, applies aoe hydro damage that also staggers
Shatter: cryo, just the shatter in the game, but can also be activated by geo application
Molten: geo and pyro, damage over time, increasing with increased pyro application, and provides some crystalise shards of geo allignment
Static: applies jolt of staggering electro in aoe
I have pulled C2 Itto and he is so much fun to play. I don´t have to worry about reactions at all and i really enjoy using him from time to time. However, he is not my "go to" carry, when i need to clear the abyss. I still use Raiden as hyper carry because i don´t really enjoy hyperbloom, i usually only use a Nilou Team if i want to play Dendro.
The one trait I like about crystallize on YunJin is that it actually works sometimes with Yoimiya, I don't and won't have Zhongli on my account, so occasional shield surprisingly helps as a bonus feature
Ofc it's not reliable and never really saves the day, but it's a little ray of sunlight :D
//Will probably replace her with Layla once I get her con which buffs normal attacks for that added feeling of ✨ synergy ✨
Heizou is a good unit, his issue is that he's competing with broken unit like Kazu and Sucrose
Not only that.
He has two roles
Support (in which he competes with the mentioned chars)
Damage dealer/Driver (in which he is just outclassed by Xiao or Wanderer. Maybe even Faruzan if she is C6 and in driving stuff he was outclassed by Sucrose overall except maybe Single Target).
So while he does both okay he wasn't really great anywhere. So was her ever good? Not really. But was he bad? Not really.
He does fit in the last tier because he was never good because he was outclassed. But if we ignore that he was actually a good unit. So benched could also fit.
I would say you should probably add the traveler to each version because each time they get a new form and especially in the beginning of version 3 you'd be looking at very skewed data about dendro characters without mentioning dendro traveler.
every traveller pretty much has no usage nowadays (even dendro traveller got replaced by the prevelance of dendro ppl only used dendro traveller back in the day due to a lack of options)
@@lakshans6962 But at least dendro traveler's elemental burst has a large area and also could increase the active character's elemental mastery. He/She's very useful
I love Kuki's redemption story, such a cool character have a powerful place now fills me with joy
Kuki went pretty unnoticed in her debut but Dendro has been the best thing for her. I’d argue that she’s the one character that benefited more than anyone else in when we unlocked Sumeru.
Archons like Raiden Shogun, Zhongli, Nahida, etc. should ideally be timeless which is why it's good that their kits are catered toward support rather than main dps (though, obviously, almost any character can be a main dps depending on their build). There won't be a patch in the game where you can't benefit from teamwide buffs or energy generation or a giga shield + all of the other crazy passives their kits offer. I'm honestly really glad that the archons serve the role that they do, except for my boy Venti who they kinda fumbled with by giving Kazuha and Sucrose more versatile/useful kits.
Tier lists are always a tricky thing. Sayu is actually almost good the issue is that she has no CC at all, even in teams where she could be a good mix of anemo and healer it's better to run Kazuha with another healer and it's not even about the damage it's just because Abyss punishes teams so much if enemies are spread apart and Kazuha fixes that
Geo's underrated big time as usual, it has a rough start but at a high level it performs well and comparable to most non top teams
The Niche category feels odd, some characters like Venti are legit niche units, works in almost any team as long as the enemies can be grouped, its niche isn't tied to a comp but to a situation. Shenhe is tied to the Cryo element but she's not niche to any given situation, she's just a Cryo support just like Ayaka is a cryo dps, if Ayaka is not niche why would her support be? Sure Shenhe has less team comps than Bennet but Bennet isn't universal either, transformative teams or non ATK scaling teams don't really make use of him. There are very few truly universal supports like Kazuha who you can put on almost any team and he will be a good team option. And no element is "niche, they all work in most situations except vs their natural counters. How is Thoma less niche than Shenhe? They both have a few specific teams that make use of them. The only team tha truly wants Thoma to my knowledge is Burgeon.
Yoimiya is at her best vs a single target, the more targets you add more her performance diminishes, isn't that literally a niche too? This ties to Yunjin, her main team is with Yoimiya because she just buffs normals that is her niche normals just as much as elemental buffers have a niche with their elements.
Now Kuki's kit is actually not very good at face value it's flawed and for a long time she was at nearly never used tier but hyperbloom gave her a place in a comp with a good consistent performance so she became as good as that comp itself, take her out of hyperbloom and her value goes down a lot, isn't that niche as well?
I just think perhaps tier lists have a lot of room to evolve. Not disagreeing with the overall placements based on the way the tier list is set up tho. It's still a good reflection of the amount of investment needed for each unit/comp to perform sufficiently well to clear , the impact they have on their team's performance or the amount of teams they can fit.
Agree. This video feels biased (or too biased compared to usual Vars), even uninformed at times (Yun Jin being just a atk speed buffer, when that's locked behind her c6). And the list goes further than what you mentioned, like comparing Heizou to anemo supports, when he's not a support or not in the sense that Sucrose or Kazuha are.
Um kuki works so well with any cryo character especially kaeya. Just use kuki's elemental power and couple it with kaeya's elemental power and the resulting elemental reaction can even break shields.
Geo would be much better if mihoyo buffed it as a universal shield breaker dealing more damage to all shields(abyss mages, lectors and wooden shields)
Some may not say.. but your way of doing video where pictures of characters pops in or shown, its such smooth transition that makes me wants to watch more
If you're not gonna do version 3 anytime soon, what do you think of Tighnari currently? He came out in exactly 3.0 so I'm really curious about what you think of him now in 4.X.
So the heizou problem is that he is anemo, so he gets compared to venti, kazu, sucrose... but his personal dmg might be lacking... let's look at his play style, take a 4 star team, Bennett, xinqiu, xiangling, And heizou... his personal dmg in that team dwars the rest of the team, I play that team in abyss for fun sometimes and even screenshared it with a friend who thinks heizou is bad. When you start seeing the consistent 100k hits, realize they are aoe. Tons of swirls everywhere. Energy particles everywhere I think you realize he is actually... on the better side of ok but not good.
Too many characters do his job easier, safer, and better. I love heizou but he really suffers from 4 star.
i agree with you about sayu but i have been clearing abyss since forever with her as a healer with vv in one of the teams i just find her easy to build if you have c6 then its easier
I use thoma since his introduction because he was the only option for my hu tao team (that i pulled on the same banner). The team was hu tao xingqui kazuha and thoma. This team is acutally super solid, especially with c6 thoma to boost hu taos charged attack as well as give her pyro resonance interruption and a solid shield which she refreshes pretty well. I like the double hydro and I use it but this team has a special place in my heart becasue i learned how to use thoma in a good way.
I look forward to a future review of fontaine characters if that happens. Subbed!
Nah you are BIG TIME BUGGIN' on Heizou, why does he need to compete with Venti, Kazuha, and Sucrose when he's not even designed to do any of their jobs?! 😂😂 He's more comparable to Xiao and Wanderer since he's clearly an on field DPS just like them. Now I know how much you underestimate Anemo main-DPSs which is still absurdly stupid but still, Heizou IS good. B-tier good, he's a good on-fielder. Nothing you can say can debunk that, ever.
This dude is a joke. He spreads so much misinformation.
it makes me wonder.
with navia and chiori in the horizon, it seems that hoyo is not ready to give up on Geo yet, now that dendro is out of the way I think geo is going to be their New focus alongside pyro.
This was fun, can’t wait for the 3rd!
I love the octopath music in the background
So Raiden is in godtier because She's versatile but Ayato is in OK because he fits into many teams but it's not bis in many? Like by the reasoning given in Raiden's placement, either She's in OK tier as well or Ayato is on godtier lmao
raiden is not even that versatile nowadays. She only really has raidenational (kinda overrated as of now imo) and hypercarry as raiden-must have teams, other teams that feature raiden can swap her out for other electros with ease
Then how does it make sense to hv raiden in godtier lol
Sayu deserves to be in nieche cause without her exploring would be so tiring
I am so glad to see someone give Kokomi an honest review. I love her design and kit due to me being obsessed with catalysts and healers so she was an easy choice for me, but I've seen so many people trash anyone not using Yelan or Xingqiu
I don't know why people don't like long video, I love the long format video. You can do alot of things while listening to Vars talking about games, or maybe I'm just old
Sayu is also helpful in farming Crystalflies due to her passive.
I feel like comparing heizou to sucrose, venti and kazuha isn't a fair comparison, considering they are all anemo supports. Heizou is not that, he is meant to be a dps so yeah idk. Otherwise though i agree with your video! And nice production value😊😁
Heizou works so well for quick swap teams. He needs 3 seconds for 100k and because of his low energy cost he can do this easily every rotation
Im starting to think that Vars knowingly puts controversial decisions in his videos. He not only have no clue how Heizou or Yun Jin are used, but straight benched whole geo team just because. And its just this video alone.
will vars ever do a good tier list...
If your a controller player ayato is much smoother to control and honestly i also feel he is more adaptable and useful.
I've been loving neauvillette but atm his rotations just feel slow and for most people you likely only have enough characters for one of his good teams
While i appreciate finally having a character who isnt ping sensitive (i play at 250 to 280 ping usually) ayato even with his ping issues is still just more fun because i can chuck him in any team and he will be the goat 24/7.
Maybe furina will get neauvillette there soon but honestly i just dont like character who are relient on other characters to be fun to play
Ayato just makes any team you put him in worse
"Everyone who's been playing the game for a reasonable amount of time has Sucrose"
My AR 60 ass missing Sucrose and Fav Codex:
I believe Ayato should've gone into still pretty good. Despite Childe and Neuvillette have better hydro application and damage output, one aspect of ayato that most people look over is how flexible and huge his AoE is. And his ER need for consistent burst uptime isn't bad (around 140%-150%) w second hydro unit. I just think in terms of huge AoE hydro coverage, Ayato does the job pretty well.
Heizou being extremely fun to use as an on field driver is enough reason to use him
You and me my man, you and me. 🤝
@@izzuddinfaruqi1493 I'm glad we see eye to eye brother, cheers🤝
But now his gimmick is not even unique to him anymore😂
@@Oly876 I have both Wrio and Heizou and I love them both to bits, changed absolutely nothing for me
@@dragonsstars7734 Cope🤣
Damn I figured Sayu would be benched since she can be better than Jean sometimes but I suppose that died quickly since she’s not battle balanced, I will argue Shenhe is more OK since she’s much stronger and little more flexible than Sara.
As for Ayato, while i don't have him (yet) I'd be willing to argue he can go up a tier due to how massive his burst is and while he's likely to be slowly creeped up on as is what happens with Gacha's (Neuvillete is already showing that) he can still deal good personal damage while being far more versatile with Neuvillete's passive being team based and as for his comparison to kokomi, XQ and Yelan it may just be because I either would and or do only slot those 3 as sub DPS/Support comparing them to the main DPS slot of Ayato feels...wrong. fun video tho.
Shinobu being that high feels off like yeah she got buff but outside hyperbloom yeah idk. damn ayato being in okay. is kinda sad but understandable, like he's more of a jack of all trades master of none, he has solid damage not high, and large aoe. compared to the other on field hydros i think he's the best for burgeon since Neuvi doesn't really work well thoma and dehya can somewhat feel worse outside of her in hyperbloom. as for childe since outside of grassional he tends to have uptime issues.
ofcourse hyperbloom. How the hell would you use kuki in melt and vapes. She has a niche and she works as intended.
Yelan and itto are my absolute favorites for different reasons.
Shinobu is awsome when she came out i was not impressed by her kit but now i like her a lot.
Tartaglia wasnt included in the version 1 in his previous video because he will be later included in Version 6 along with the Cryo Tsaritsa so please be patient Childe Lovers.
I will probably never stop using Sayu for exploration, even if I get a character like Yelan or Kirara, the reason being is that her skill is too useful(for me personally). Being able to go around and make up for, say, not having a hydro character to get rid of the fatui agent’s pyro shield, well Sayu can just roll in a puddle of water and then I’m all good. She’s just to valuable to me as, with seven elements now, she helps to make up for what I can’t put on my team, she applies the vv debuff, she heals, and she helps to explore faster(she also lets me go past the Piamon barrier).
Yelan is faster but sayu skill is longer
Honestly i would put yunjin one down and ayato one up. Ayato (i dont have him) just can be used like yae miko to cover more area and with nahida in example nilou bloom oor something like that he is a better option.
I absolutely love sucrose and ive been playing the game for a reasonable amount of time yet i dont have her (or heizou). Literally the only other 4 stars im missing are kaveh and freminet bc i didnt pull on their banners. I did pull on sucrose and heizou banners many times and yet they elude me.😢
Hey Vars. Can you do the same kind of video but like, for every charcter in the game? I was watching the video and reflecting about your opinions (I want justice for sayu, she could be on benched at best), when you started the outro. I was like, thats it? Its over? But it was soo good! Without the fact that you just bullied my best girl because of her NAs
pretty good over all, but for me both itto and ayato are at least in pretty good (maybe itto in the "okey") because ayato can be in so many teams and the diference with tartaglia is not as much, and honeslty he does to much damage even if it looks really low (if u want a hydro on field tartaglia is not always worth it and kokomi can't do ayato's job, and yelan in aoe is no that great) and itto... he is kinda misudertood, many people play de 4 geo team but that's not the best geo team, is 3 geo (itto albedo and c6 gorou) with a fischl, bennet, shongun , etc. unlike xiao, c0 itto is a beast on his own.
The problem with freeze is that Hoyo has shifted the meta.
Like with the rift hounds, making shielders useless, Hoyo has introduced a lot of enemies which cant be frozen …..
rift hounds are freeze teams btch tho
13:59 Bro ate his words on the yelan to furina comparison 😭💀☠️
My favorite part of your videos is by far the Octopath background music.
Ayato should at be in the still pretty good tier imo he doesnt fit well next to thoma and yoimiya. He doesn't lose out in terms of DPS againt childe in national by a huge amount and the same can be said with him in hyperbloom etc swapped with neuv. His versatility makes up for that performance drop since he can work in more teams which is good pull value. Only problem is he doesnt have any good 4star weapon options. I have a well invested yoimiya and ayato, the yoimiya having better overall crit value and ayato outshines her on my account hes a clear tier above.
You missed Sayu's most important niche: crystalfly farming 😉
Yaoyao can do it too. She can also do dmg and better heals. ☹️
@remko7559 And? I'd be ok with "Benched," it was "Never Good," that had my head scratching.
Plus, between cystalflys and fast movement, it was weird to not mention the QOL benefits Sayu was mostly known for 🤷🏼♀️
I mean looking at the order of the list i would say it looks about right, but the names for the tier list really aren't matching it that well. (except for niche i guess, gotta have those in an extra category, understandably)
For the longest time I only had Sucrose and Sayu as my anemo units (Anemo MC is not a unit) and the only other healer on my team that was built was Bennett, so Sayu is mega useful in situations like that. If she's compared to any other anemo units she obviously pales in comparison but I'll always think fondly of her for being indispensable in the early game. I still use her a lot on the overworld where she is S+ tier. Totally agreed on Shinobu, she's definitely in the top 5 four stars. I think I'd put her above Sucrose but just below Fischl.
Tier lists are stupid and the meta doesn't matter. I clear abyss with Sayu, I clear it with Dori, I clear it with physical Xinyan. Genshin is too easy to make any sort of fuss over meta. Build your team smart with decent artifacts and you're fine.
mono geo is still fine its always been nieche and it feels the same atleast to me although i understand your reasoning
If Itto is benched what does it say about all my other teams which cannot keep up with him.
Bro really put Yoimiya in the same category as Thoma 😂
yunjin increases the damage too tho 😞
When it comes to ayato, he is hands down the best hydro applicator for nilou bloom teams, thanks to his burst.
kokomi exist, candace exist, barbara exist
I’m pretty sure that’s Kokomi. You might want to check your reference.
@@naufalsadewa223 I didn't say ayato was the only hydro, and tell me which of those has a wider aoe range of hydro application?
@anyaaa2801 kokomi is only considered good because she consolidates hydro application and healing. She can't compete with ayato and his huge aoe of hydro, there are other healers besides kokomi you know
Neuvillete exist
can anyone tell me what the ost is thats playing in the video, I can't find it
I hope kuki is on furinas banner. It will be insane to get those two at same time. I think i need to just get kokomi at this point if she reruns not that i care for her. Sayu at C6 is okay, with right team i think. Use xiangling, kaeya and fischl and a good and i think you can still get great damage. Heizou and sayu have something in common... they change the play style entirely. This may mean future relevance, but either way they have huge fun factor.
I think Ayaka is top tier still, but otherwise agree completely with the list. I have Shenhe and I like Shenhe, but she is an Ayaka accessory and nothing more
I no joke wanted to find a niche for Sayu only to literally never come up with a team that could fully utilize her talents and not be stupid at the same time... the closest I got was basically budget thundering furry with her, dori, nahida and dehya for overload + burning with constant pyro shred with vv, but even that never really got past the theocrafting phase
Since she heals up to 70% like Bennet, I've been trying to make her work for a Wriothesley team. Since I'm not running Xiangling I'm relying on burning for the melt team, which feels kinda ehhh. The freeze team with Xingqiu and C4 Layla has potential though, would maybe even be good if I had Shenhe to replace Layla.
Hi! exc video, can you do a comparison between International and Raiden National team, bc of the comparison between the two teams damage is not as clear for me and many people, it will be very good and helpful to watch, I dont if a build Nobile or Shougn bc of this debate
Sayu is best in slot for exploration.
You get your mining, movement, anemo resonance, healer, and butterfly catching in one slot.
Abyss though, she is just 4 star Jean. Still useful for enemies that run away a lot, like the Thunder Manifestation but that's all.
Wish she was sword, catalyst user or anything except claymore
@@alsonaarif7367The claymore helps for mining in my exploration teams
I admit it looks silly though, especially if she’s supposed to be a nimble but lazy spy character in story.
@@studiesinflux1304 for mining geo is there Ningquang can do the work