Are Version 3 Characters Still Good? | Genshin Impact
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 เม.ย. 2024
- Today we'll be discussing Version 3 characters and ranking them based on how they've held up since their release!
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Guys I know that Tighnari/Dehya's sig weapons were in the Chronicled Banner. But that banner is over now, and conventionally standard banner five stars never get reruns (subsequently their sig weapons are unobtainable). We'll have to see if the Chronicled Wish is a regular thing and not a one off. You may now stop with the "smh you forgot chronicled wish banner" lol
You forgot about Chronacled Wish Banner. Smh.
In all seriousness, I am glad their weapons came out. I for one managed to snag Beacon for Eula using it. I like the system. I think it works well, and I think it will come back again. Next one undoubtedly being Liyue edition.
They said chronicled wish will be a semi-regular thing.
I think we can expect it to come back every couple of patches. They wouldn't let us build pity on smth that wouldn't come back. Right? Right?!
@@kiro-chan6179 They specifically said it would be available "from time to time", so we can surely expect it to come back - we just can't be sure when.
You're talking to the Genshin Impact community.
An overwhelming amount of "Actually"☝🏻🤓 regarding anything, no matter how insignificant, is inevitable.
Genshin's META being focused more on Elemental Reactions and party synergy than purely on a character's individual power really helps older characters remain relevant no matter how much time passes.
(Note: Neuvillette is the exception to the rule, but it's impressive that it took 3 years for someone like him to be released)
What also helps is the characters have gimmicks that allow them to do a dedicated supports. For example, Dilluc had oddly high plunge scaling. And now he was buffed with Xianyun.
"older characters" in question:
no im genuinely curious. what are those "older characters" you talking about?
Yeah, this is a small gripe I have with HSR currently. Endgame feels a bit too much like a character check. However, it's only 2.1, and some team archetypes have still yet to be properly explored (notably break)
@@kison7715Keqing, Diluc, Jean, Kazuha (he’s pretty old, despite being SS+ tier for years), Sucrose, Xiangling, Xingqui, Fischl, etc.
Diluc for plunge with Xianyun, Jean and Noelle for party heals with Furina, all Pyro and Electro for overload reactions with Chevy, Geo being viable outside mono Geo with Chiori/Navia. Outside from teams, Marreechausee and Golden Troupe is great on older characters like Xiao, Fischl, and Miko.
I feel like Layla's shield is quite underrated...
Hard agree. If you need a shield and lack Zhongli, Layla is probably your best option.
2nd strongest shield in the game behind the Big Dong Zhong himself, with HP scaling for her damage so she doesn't lose out on being a shieldbot, and a cheap-ass burst to boot.
It's one of the best shields in the game with 100% uptime and cryo application on top, what's not to love?
@@randomtology In fact, I could make an argument she's better than Zhongli, due to her element
Layla would be an amazing 4-star... if her shield time was slightly longer! One of her better uses is with Wanderer, but the shield duration is awkward with his rotations, making Thoma the comfier choice.
remember layla's shield is the second best shield in the game, and you can get a ton of energy from her. to use her shield to the fullest, you have to spam skills. plus, you have 100% uptime burst. she can even be a sub dps (you won't get massive numbers, but you can get consistent 10k stars). sub dps+battery+cryo aplication. i know diona as healer has better potential, considering fontaine mechanics, but layla is still a very good unit.
Pretty sure Layla is best in slot as defensive option for mono cryo. Shield that never breaks and sub dps potential with kazuha/shenhe buffs.
With no defense ganyu, kazuha, shenhe, Ayaka is better but if you need defense then replace ganyu with Layla.
@@denpaonice1442i actually doubt that, zhongli’s shred with Petra is probably better. People forget that Layla doesn’t buff the team and her dmg on a full hp build is not very good, she basically only offers a shield and single target cryo app (and the latter is often times not useful)
I'm using her in a double Geo double Cryo team with Navia. She's able to trigger both resonance's rather reliably all on her own
@@simonditomasso9868 nah. Layla actually has slight buffing capabilities with 4pc milileth for 20%atk with like 90% uptime. Even if zhongli gives more damage from res shred it won’t be by much since you’d have Kazuha/shenhe already for res shred, so the atk% buff is probably better if you already have res shred. Also Layla would be doing significantly more damage than zhongli. I have a full hp artifact set with good crit ratio and after Kazuha /shenhe buffs she does like 10k plus quill procs. So after 5 quills and entirety of her burst/skill she getting like 80k damage more or less . You won’t be getting that much damage from other mono cryo defensive supports. Also she’d be better at providing energy than zhongli. Plus her consistent cryo app makes cryo resonance more consistent to proc crit rate buff.
@@denpaonice1442 I’d have to try it since my Layla is raised and my Zhongli is on Petra. But like how do you even play that team? Ayaka without freeze? Sounds like a painful team to play begin with. And 80k per rotation doesn’t seem as relevant as increasing further your main cryo dps further
EDIT: after some testing, zhongli variant cleared slightly faster, while having A LOT more shielding since he wasn't on a dmg build like layla. another observation, the ayaka team variant with kazuha charlotte furina was a billion times better than any mono cryo team variant, we're talking 30-40s clears compared to the 70-80s mono cryo clears
I feel like Kaveh is probably one of the characters that suffers from not having his own team actually. Since Dendro works always around Nahida, Kaveh's best teams can't properly generate blooms, so the ones who generate blooms are the hydro units. An EM scaling hydro unit is the only way he could rise some tiers.
Its true. At time I feel that Nahida's strong dendro application works against her at times. She makes Electro swirl tricky, she makes generating blooms tricky as well.
Thats why you have to run Xingqiu. To my knowledge him (and maybe c2 Yelan) are the only hydro units that can actually overwhelm her dendro application long enough to have the Hydro Aura on enemies. She also still suffers from not being able to take on waves of enemies.
I can only recommend Kaveh only in Nilou bloom teams. With Nahida(especially c2), Nilou, Xingqiu, then Kaveh as th le driver. Not every bloom can belong to kaveh, thats just how it is, but the team slaps non-the-less. For a more comfortable, but lower damage potential experience, could trade Nahida out for Baizhu.
they need to drop a EM 5* weapon as well
So you're saying to pair him with Candace so he can proc his own blooms.
@@amandaslough125 I WISH it were that simple. Unfortunately his ult overides Candace ult. Which means he has no means of applying hydro. Granted, Candace has her C6, but the hydro application is peetty abysmal.
However, this does work on full EM YaoYao, since her dendro application is not contingent on her normals. Thing is, she might die.
If only Kaveh were hydro...
Candace actually increases all elemental normal attack damage, even if the character overrides the hydro infusion with their own element. This even applies to catalyst characters.
yes she is my buffer in my lisa team because of this xd she has 4pc noblesse since she is c6 and she buffs nicely and i love that she’s a quick swap tank! candace lisa aether are my main squad xd
She’s bad
@@alpha728 Riveting commentary, bruv, much persuasive.
@@alpha728 I won't say she's bad, she's pretty niche. If you need an extra NA buff, there she is.
@@sonofdeleniel007 truth hurts sometimes deal with it 😘
11:14 Loll I just can't hear "mediocre" anymore without thinking about Dr. Ratio throwing chalk 😂
ZERO POINTS, NEXT!
FAIL, GET OUT
KNOWLEDGE IS THE MEASURE OF ALL THINGS
For the fear of mediocre.
ESSEST PERCIPI
Tighnari consistently impresses me even with hand me down artifacts. I don't use him often but I'm pleasantly surprised every time.
Is he worth building properly? Mine is lvl 80 and with decent artifacts for weapons I have amos bow r2 skyward harp and thundering pulse. I havent 90 him yet since he doesnt feel very strong at level 80 is it worth investing into him fully? He is also c1.
I want to know as well mine is 80 as well but I'm not satisfied 27k spread, my Nahida does 33k spread and my alhaitam does 50k spread even with yae miko tighnari does the lowest dmg but I like his character and I want to play him
@@akashsaxena7607 What are the levels on Nahi & Haitham? If they're 90 then that's part of your answer.
@@thegurlama7356 Okay, first off, lv. 90 is huge for Quicken DPS units, it's like a 24% DPS increase (Base multiplier goes from 1350 to 1808 and that's added on top of the base damage before per cent DMG bonuses)
2nd, and this is coming from someone who actively uses him so I'm aware of the bias, yes. He's VERY MUCH worth the investment. Pair him with an Electro partner like Fischl, Beidou, or Yae; give him a decent Gilded or Wanderer's set, put a good bow on him (Slingshot, Stringless, Skyward, Amos', hell even Elegy's amazing on him). Ten 30k Spread crits in 6s plus another 60k in raw damage, per rotation, is smexy, lemme tell ya.
@@thegurlama7356 I'd say if you don't have a better dendro main dps then absolutely. I think Alhaitham, or a well built Nahida main dps, would both be stronger choices but Tighnari is definitely good.
Layla is better/more comfy than Diona with Wanderer & provides the cryo crit boost with Wanderer's E. Her shield animation happening much faster than Diona and Zhongli makes her competitive with both of these alternatives
diaona healing and freezing enemy is good your bad build use 2 hp 2 healing
@@xxx-lq7ho Notice how I never mentioned the difference in shielding/healing values or the fact that Diona heals as well as shields....my point was that Layla has been better for me for general exploration because her shield comes out so fast, but also in actual gameplay because her shield is much sturdier than Diona's. And interruption resistance is pretty important for Wanderer & we would not like the shield to break
I didn't even mention other subtle differences like how Layla can have consistent uptime on Tenacity of the Milleth's attack buff (a less common buff btw), while Diona would rely on the Noblesse Oblige buff instead. Though if you're running C6 Faruzan with Tenacity, Layla's Tenacity set can be replaced with Noblesse Oblige & still get the job done (because her ult only has a 40 energy cost). Layla's C4 also offensively buffs Wanderer more than Diona's kit does.
As a generalist, I would say Diona is better. But Layla has her uses & her shield is the 2nd best shield (only bested by Zhongli's shielding), and Layla does serve Wanderer a lot better (which is a character I play often in overworld & Abyss).
@@ElementUser Diona's shield is terrible imo. She's more of a healer in my eyes, and I only use her over Layla when there's an HP drain mechanic like Bond of Life or Rift Hounds corruption. Layla does more damage and has better cryo application than Diona.
@@ElementUser healing help furina stock fanfair and shield help neuvelet also em boost help kazuha swirl more dmg
@@EddyConejo your build is bad lmao neuvelet can use her shield all hp build and healing help furina stock fanfair tested in abys 36stars. diaona is undrated. diaona shield is worst than baizu
Things you missed about characters:
Candace: Also increases NA elemental damage during her burst time even without the Hydro infusion. Honestly if we get more Razor-like melee on-fielders, Candace would get a LOT more use because they can use the entirety of her kit. But even then, Catalyst users can use her quite well as is.
Layla: strongest shield in the game behind Zhongli with 100% uptime because it's skill-based
Dehya: *glares in C0 Neuvillette and Lyney teams* the fact so many Fontaine characters make themselves more frail and squishy through the HP drain mechanic means Dehya providing some interruption resistance and damage mitigation is MUCH more valuable than back in 3.5-3.8. I mean, she's still not top tier or anything, but at least her kit has a USE now.
Then one who got snubbed COMPLETELY by the devs:
Kaveh: he would be much better if they would let his buffs be activated with *any* Dendro reaction instead of just Bloom because his Dendro infusion is quite good for driving Dendro application itself. He SHOULD have been able to be played well in Aggravate and Spread too.
he can be played well in other comps with c4. He's a niche character, i don't get how he is "bad" when he's a whole driver
Bro, are you serious?! Layla is THE best 4* shielder in the game, and second-best shielder overall, and THE BEST Tenacity of Milileth user. Put some damn respect on her name!
she eepy
Dori has the most weird uses of all Genshin: you can use her with Jean to swirl electro and maybe trigger hyperbloom?, If you use Chevreuse, use Bennett to overload everytime
Extremely weird uses, but hey they exist
It's like an extra element application to the enemy if your applicator has a problem with cd or reaction icd. Well, dori has a fast tick on her burst either way. It can help electro applications if you run around using sayu while dodging enemy attack.
Dori is actually good with Neuv.
You can put Dori's lamp in midst of crowded mobs, and go around in circles with Neuv CA, this can trigger Dori's Electro application continuously. Really weird way to use, but she's actually not bad if used correctly.
She is best used with Furina because she is a team healer. Except only at c6.
I literally just thought to myself if the "are 3.0 characters still worth" video existed already or not and then this got uploaded 😭
I feel like version 3 characters are all good in their own way (except Dehya and Dori)
The dendros are still relevant while the others are good on their own (except dori)
Dehya has gotten better with neuvilette
Dori is good in coop. Maybe its her way
Dehya has gotten more useful with Fontaine units. Dori on the other hand…
@@zekkekeipa6521curious to why you say that
Kaveh being able to heal himself with Nilou's cores is pretty useful,
Even as a reaction driver I don't think he's bad
I think Kaveh is a relatively good dendro driver in Nilou comps. I've ran him with my Nilou team a few times and while he did have issues staying in range of enemies his blooms hit super hard.
He works perfectly fine, but Collei eats his lunch in Nilou Bloom thanks to her more heavy-handed application and significantly eased ER requirements (base 120% ER at C1 on a 60 cost burst means Sac Bow is enough to satisfy her ER needs allowing her to go full EM on artifacts, while also allowing her to front-load a f*ckton more damage in the process).
aren't the bountiful cores also healing him? i know he heals from normal cores depending on his EM, but i don't know about the bountiful ones...
also, they could be too damaging, so you don't feel the heal even though it's there. i think he is a solid driver in budget-nilou teams: kaveh, nilou (obviously), yaoyao and xinqiu should work.
@@Itsme-ty9udYes. He's practically immortal in Nilou teams.
exactly, he should be under niche, when was he ever "bad"
Candace does have an interesting use in nilou teams alongside yaoyao, infusing hydro then going to yaoyao bursts is a good source of blooms
Layla is still one of the best shields in the game, and one of the few permanent uptime shields in genshin, she also makes good use of shenhe's quills
Everything else seems pretty well placed
Layla is definitely better than okay. She is a good shielder, the second best after Zhong'li if i am not mistaken. And through reverse melt she can actually do decent damage as a shielder. In a circle impact team she even wrecks.
I swear that sometimes Baizhu is so underrated. He’s the perfect example of role supression.
3:42 Vars when did you record this? Cause that was not the case at all, his weapon could be obtained on the new Chronicled Wish Banner.
This shit must be months old.
@@Kokichus fr?
@@Kokichusthen why are you watching his videos?
So...hum...If I pull in the standard banner will I get his weapon? if not, what Vars says is true.
@@overlordshiina They introduced a separate banner with his weapon. The first run of the banner recently ended, it will come back again in the future.
8:56 even bro forgot freminet
His bigger damage output is from physical, so he's moreso closer to being a 4* Eula than being similar to other 4* cryo characters.
chongyun found dead in a ditch
Cyno is underrated asf. He is a boss killer, i eat every boss in every chamber in the abyss with him with no effort at all
Bro went to Inazuma irl 😭🙏
Goofy ahh comment 😭😭😭
I feel like Kaveh deserves to be in the Niche category rather than, "They Were Never Good." I've seen some impressive builds for him lately, including some that utilize the Marcheusse Hunter 4pc set.
Part of me feels like some folks just didn't know how to build teams around him and only with time, tests, and a few new artifact introductions has he shown more potential. Not only that, but it didn't feel like he was given much of a chance to show his full potential since lots of folks skipped Baizhu and, thus, Kaveh too.
He's far from the strongest Dendro character, no doubt, but he feels like a decently built mixture of a 4* Alhaitham and Nilou. Cause of that, I think he should get raised a few levels. The babygirl deserves it, lol.
exactly, like he was NEVER bad
Also Baizhu has had more reruns than him so lots of people don't even have Kaveh.
Kaveh the destroyer of worlds is literally broken tier
4*s of each Patch
1.0: Prime pick for a lot of Situations
2.0: Starts off Mediocre, gets elevated through circumstances
3.0: coin toss of either a Dud, decent to good
4.0: mediocre unless you're pyro
5.0 prediction: straight-up unusable
The only 2.0 *4 unit that get elevated through circumstances is Kuki shinobu
@bem3760 and Thoma. I've heard he is good in a burning or burgeon team
@@kwayke9Charlotte is very nice healer
problem with Kaveh is that he's released after Nilou, who's basically a 5* version of him, the only experimentation I see people try with him is shatter fridge, making use of his full EM build to also increase however meager a freeze shatter damage can do alongside the bloom pop, even then it was just a meme build for people who liked him
Raiden, Nahida, Furina, and Baizhu. You don't even have to auto hit with that team on over world, just use their skills and watch everything melt. And a great team comp for bosses and Spiral Abyss.
C6 Dori is actually a good hyperbloom/aggravate driver in Furina teams. So even though it’s kinda cope, Dori improved during Fontaine
It is not cope. It is a similar level of improvement how Noelle got better with Furina. She is much much more powerful than before because of Furina.
Dori is unironically good at c6 (she allows both yelan and nahida to do extra dmg with furina buff while also enabling hyperbloom damage from onfield)
how Dendo works, has its own meta so it cant be powercrept in my opinion, thus will remain future proof and its still a fresh element.
more dendro characters will release in future to expand its potential to new heights.
Not to mention, the element was only just introduced a year ago, so there's still ways to expand it in the same way niche units are being released for the other elements.
@@Eternity116 Example: We have no Dendro Sara/Gorou/Shenhe/Faruzan, and Nahida's technically a Support as opposed to a Sub-DPS, so a Dendro Fischl or Dendro Yae would be a fun addition. There's also only ONE dedicated debuffer in the game in the form of Faruzan, but not for any other element. A Dendro debuffer (I'm aware of Deepwood but let's talk not locked to an artifact set) would be interesting to see. We have no dedicated support for Burn, and it'd be fitting for it to be a Dendro unit the way Nilou is a Bloom Support.
imo, putting Cyno a whole tier under Tighnari is a crime, he's so incredibly underrated, his best team is one of the best in the game but is kinda premium (furina, baizhu and nahida/fischl/kazuha), people thinks he's worse than he is bc when he came out, everyone used him in aggravate, when quickbloom is where he thrives
if a character thrives using hyperbloom or any of its variations, this character is just not good
I believed his best team was furina baizou kazuha(or was nahida furina baizou?)
Anyway, yeah he is pretty ok.
My only problem is that in my test, he perform not much better than any other electro.
I remember testing him not long ago, there was a boss in 12-1-1 so I tested a lot of comp. He was actually able to clear the boss in 20 second, beating most of my other DPS (I only miss Lynley and alhaitam). Then I changed him for kuki, not aggravate kuki, her normal em build for hyperbloom, and I cleared in 22 second.
@@brunoafonso9084so, kuki shinobu is not good?😅
@@brunoafonso9084His kit was literally made for it though? Lol.
@@brunoafonso9084so you mean nilou and kuki is bad
Layla has the second strongest shield in the game, behind Zhongli. And with constellations, she can even become a NA/CA buffer, which is kinda nuts if you have c0 Neuvillette. (Or Wriothesley for that matter.) And personally, I always have 100% uptime between her shield and ultimate, so her energy regen isn't half bad.
I believe that Layla is okay, if not still pretty good.
I wished on Tighnari’s banner and have mained him ever since, despite having multiple c2r1 limiteds. His playstyle is just too fun!
Your "Baizhu is too underrated" statement is very true. I kinda remember this happened too when Kazuha was first released in 1.6, only to be considered as one of the best character in the game soon after 😂
Nahida is still great. And may be one of the only units to avoid power creep considering how good hyperbloom is and having the only Crit for it at C2 (Which i have).
3:45 It was in the chronicle banner along with Dehya’s sig.
Dori has a specific usecase over kuki,but only if she is c6.because with that she has access to teamwide healing which makes her the better unit for teams that inlcude furina.
so her placement should be niche,given that getting her c6 and having a specific furina team for this is a pretty niche situation.with said c6 she also becomes a reaction monsters,just to given a example she can cause up to 5-6 reactions with just her e+na string(n2 dash n2 is the best option as of rn)
similar i would argue for dehya but in chev teams,given the limited defensive units for these teams she is a strong contender,unlike thoma you arent restricted to na attacks aswell that she can be put on a tenacity set to buff the teams atk even further.while still on a dps setup in terms of mainstats(going full hp was always redundant).
She is basicly a more defensive option for a raiden chev team if you have issues staying alive/get interupted during setup.dehya can cover the whole teams setup time with her interupt res whilealso providing dmg reduction to support chevreuse low healing.aswell that her overall dmg in these kind of teams isnt completly bad(lower invests i seen do still about 23-28k per burst punch)so she is a decent subdps support.but similar to dori a very niche usecase.
I don't have Dehya but if you'd use her for the resist to interruption, Zhongli makes it a better choice because of his res shred + shield. You won't even need damage reduction because you are shielded. Agree with Dori tho (plus Dori is a battery monster if you use her with Sac Greatsword)
@@gibidroidz in a chev team you cant use zhongli. so in this case he isnt even an option.
but generally he is the king still when it comes to defensive.
doh dehya can generally compare to other 4 star options depending on the team,sometimes even outshining them,doh those are very rare cases and only in teams where she can even use her burst for something.(mostly chev teams or furina teams)
to give my own chev team as an example.
given im not using benny(really hate his small circle)my chev team consists of raiden/sara/dehya/chev. dehyas e protects the whole setup while also reapplying the chev vv effect for raiden burst where the lack of int res is redundant,which i then follow up with dehya burst into a new rotation.
its way smoother than the thoma variant(also less battery heavy given dehya doesnt burst offcd) and dehya even does good dmg in this(bout 400-500k with my c1r1 dehya)
you are massively overrating dori at c6 to even get that teamwide healing you need to on-field her which wastes time for actual dps
and even if u do dori dps team with her as the carry the overall team dps is low she not better than kuki in furina teams since even though kuki gives less fanfare she still gives more team dps through hyperbloom which she doesn't need to on-field to do unlike dori and doesn't need to be c6 to do it
going past that dori even as a pure fanfare generator is still bad compared to the likes of jean,sayu,charlotte (maidens beloved Bennett) since these characters not only have better particle generation but also give better supportive buffs or elemental application
she is still mid even now bro
@@TybossMaster They called Dori a driver. You know, the character who takes up field time and uses NA strings to drive off-field units attacks? Like Sucrose? Where exactly did you see them call Dori the hypercarry?
@@consciousnesshidden in teams where u use c6 dori with furina she not a drive it take more than 6 sec to skill spam and na a bit that's on-fielding bro
going past that if dori is used with furina it is a type hyperbloom/quickbloom (dmg furina cant buff) so the team is trying to buff a units skill/burts/na dmg with amp reaction team core is dori furina dendro flex
you wouldn't use cyno because dori takes up lots of field or alhaitham so that leaves either fischl or a anemo unit making these dori carry teams not driver teams
3:45 Both Tighhnari's and Dehya's weapon were featured in the Chronicled Wish banner during 4.5.
And they will most likely come back with other Chronicled Wish banners down the road, whenever those may come.
Can we talk how much different our perception of characters would changue if in the future comes a co-op endgame or game mode?
Imagine Cyno weing able to react his hole burst, or even Dori, healing and restoring energy to everyone at the same time.
3:42 his weapon was on the chronicled banner. And im pretty certain it will be on future chronicled banner's aswell
Go glad to see Baizhu in his rightful spot. Loved that man ever since 1.2
The only thing I was just flabbergasted was your take on Layla being a cryo bot for cryo app when she more excels at shielding.
If you dont have Zhongli, play Layla.
i've been wanting baizhu ever since i saw him early on in the liyue quests. i was so scared that when his release would come he'd get the cyno treatment. but i'm so glad they treated him with love
i feel like scara isnt quite niche only because he's an anemo catalyst, which means he can automatically be a driver on other teams with more focus on sub dps (taser, xiangling national, etc.) rather than strictly as a hypercarry
Yes but sucrose
@@lelolelo5441 not saying he'd be the best at it but its still a decent option, same case for heizou
@@angiewu8294 The problem is that Sucrose is quite LITERALLY the Anemo Queen right now next to Kazuha and Venti, and the three are so oppressively good that amazing characters like Jean and Scara look mid in comparison.
Scara's a Hypercarry, simple as. If you're gonna do a Tazer comp with him it's a 2x Anemo Tazer comp with him, Faruzan, Fischl, and and Xingqiu. If you're gonna do Aggravate it's him, Faru, Fischl, and Kirara (because he HAS to have stagger resist or he gets swatted like a fly). If you're gonna do Freeze it's Scara, Faru, XQ, Layla. If you do traditional Hypercarry it's Scara, Faru, Bennett, and a flex (Usually Layla or Thoma).
He doesn't simply slot into a team, he makes it HIS team, which can make all the difference in unit inclusivity. Kazuha & Sucrose just slot in, they don't have to be active drivers if they don't need to be. Scara HAS to be an active driver or carry.
@@sonofdeleniel007 i mean we may have different definitions of hypercarry but i take it to mean teams where there is 1 dps onfielder with almost every other character slot being used to amplify that dps's damage. for example, xiao-faruzan-bennett-xianyun, where you can maybe argue that faruzan or xianyun is a sub dps but if we're being real here, probably not.
but in the teams you've listed, the focus is on overall team damage or even on the sub-dps, like fischl-xingqiu (you can even swap faruzan for beidou and build him full em + get stagger resistance with beidou's c1) and have it still be a viable team because taser is broken. and once you're building him full em, he isn't restricted to only teams with faruzan, he can be like any other anemo catalyst driver. and of course he still has his usual hypercarry team
granted, as i said, he can't be as good as sucrose who has better aoe, grouping, and em buffing. but we're not talking about the absolute best teams here, we're talking about reaching the bare minimum damage ceiling to clear (barely existent) endgame, which he can reach despite not being the most optimal.
no he isn't built to slot into every team the way kazuha or sucrose is, but if we're saying nilou is niche (considering she literally only has 1 team), i'd say scara is way more versatile. anemo units are almost always versatile purely because of vv and their ability to swirl, which as an anemo catalyst he absolutely can do consistently. you see this in abyss challenges and speedruns (those cn speedrun tournaments with a lot of limitations especially) where literally any anemo unit can be chosen and put on 4vv.
sorry for the essay! just writing all my thoughts down :)
loving the p5 ost usage vars.
4:33 except C6 dori is. Do not sleep on her
Is a real shame that most 4⭐️ nowadays needs to be C6 in order to be viable. That electro infusion + healing could be great as a passive
Shinobu is better. Nuff said.
@@paulyvii A character being good doesn't mean others are bad LMAO. By your logic, even Shinobu is bad since EM Raiden exists lol.
@@consciousnesshidden but shinobu has healing, I don't get why raiden would be better
@@paulyvii in the off field pure em hyperbloomer role, sure. But the role that Dori serves is different and she's better at it.
She's an on field enabler. As she procs hyperblooms, she also does decent aggravate damage and heals the whole party for furina's stacks
Take cyno's premiere team for example, he needs baizhu to be there. Replace cyno with Dori and you have a quick swapable team first of all. But second, you can replace baizhu with fischl. This is a genuinely good team and I will build by Dori to play it once I have C6
The Dendro roster right now has the same issue that the Anemo and Electro roster has. You have 2-3 units who are so outrageously, ludicrously, OPPRESSIVELY overpowered that it makes even great units look dogsh*t in comparison. The whole "This unit is SSSSS+++ Tier so this S tier unit is D tier by proxy." bullsh*t.
Tigh, Yaoyao, DMC, and Collei are all amazing units in their own right. Collei's actually one of the best Nilou Bloom drivers at C6 because of just how insanely front-loaded her application is. DMC's actually really good, and can emulate some of what Nahida is able to do serviceably enough that you can - essentially speaking - have 2 Nahidas in Abyss (or a Nahida and a Nahida-lite). Yaoyao's a f*cking chaos gremlin with a good damage burst (it hits as hard as Tighnari's burst, like deadass), great application, amazing heals, decent off field battery, and such an insane team flexibility that she's borderline ubiquitous. Kirara's actually made quite a name for herself with her shield. (She uses Sac Sword as her preferred weapon but not for the ER, she uses it because it insta-stacks her shield to it's full 34% HP + 4300 value, which can average about 15k easily. For reference, Zhongli's shield at 30k Max HP and Talent lv. 10 is 9623 which goes to 14.4k after the omni-elemental thing that his shield has, while Kirara at 30k Max HP and Talent lv. 13 - which is C3 - hits 14.5k by default.)
The only unit who isn't in this list is Kaveh and that's only because he's *JUST a fine character, not an amazing one.* He's not bad, Dendro's just busted af.
I'm still using Alhaitham and Nahida for Hyperbloom comp for my 2nd team while Neuvillette + Furina for my 1st team
A god-like creature and their "feeble" (looking at you Alhaitham -_-) counterpart. Kinda cute
nahida still being used in abyss till this day since her release...having a nahida team/s is like having a free floor...
i have fully built both collei and dendro mc for my nilou bloom and tighnari teams and can i just say, i have literally every dendro character in game other than kaveh and i find these two to be really excellent buffers, ESPECIALLY with collei's skill. i don't think any dendro characters need to be benched at all if you like them or want to use them, they all have niches they fit into. i find that collei and dendro lumine both result in a lot higher of a damage output from your dps than more 'useful' units like baizhu (who i have level 90 talent 999 fully built)
Collei and Dendro MC are specially good when you have multiple comps...something many people don't do. But in my case I do make a ton of team. I have to say even thought Nahida often offer more dps, the dps difference is not massive enough to actually be noticiable.
This are my Dendro teams:
1. Al Haitham, Nahida, Yelan and Kuki.
2. Raiden, Xingqiu, Dendro MC and Diona.
3. Nilou, Collei, Yao Yao and Candance
However the final comp really needs C6 Candace. But the combo between Yao Yao and C6 Candace makes this Nilou comp suprisingly powerful. As Yao Yao have tons of Dendro applications if she is on-field...which she now can thanks to Candace turning her attacks into hydro and giving it Aoe explosion to cause even more Blooms.
Finally non of my dendro comp shared teammates. Meaning I can use them at the same time, if the abyss want Dendro on both sides...also I'm planning to build a burgeon comp, but as of now those comps feel incompleted. So I will wait for when they release a unit that make that comp viable.
I use dehya in the current abyss as she works fairly well in dealing with that plunge boss on floor 12-3. I think candace, dori, and dehya deserves to be niche.
I think Kaveh is in the same tier as characters like Lynette imo. He’s not the best, but he can still be used and work well.
Love the guide, you made us wait way too long, but at least you made it long to make up for it!
I know this is random but Alhaitum looks so sexy on the thumbnail hellooo??? Maybe it’s the saturation or his skin not being dead white, idk but he looks real good
I agree with most of the list, especially the logic concerning it, but am kind of confused about the logic concerning Layla. The commenters are right: she has one of the strongest shields in the game, with her passive and Q only increasing it further in strength. This even applies to allies and their shields. Plus a 100% uptime shield is pretty crazy.
I’ve heard from somewhere, don’t remember where, that Kaveh works as a frontline unit for Nilou, because of his passive where he heals himself when he’s hit by bloom explosions.
Don’t know if that’s true or not, since I can’t test Nilou and Kaveh, on account of having neither.
I honestly think that answer should be very obvious. The power creep in this game has been minimal to the point where endgame genshin is more similar to an interactive art museum than a rpg bc most of the time, the combat lasts for a minute; minus spiral abyss but if you have decent, well built characters then it shouldn’t be too difficult. Therefore, how are the 3.0 characters supposed to fall off when the 4.0 enemies are only slightly stronger than the 3.0 enemies
I’ve found a sweet niche for dehya since Fontaine arrived. Specifically for chevrouse overload comp. It gives you interrupt and dmg resistence that I’ve found to be very useful, especially when the Fontainians have self heal. It’s fairly decent damage as well, as I think it’s the highest off-field skill pyro damage in genshin. And there are other comps now where being able to tank damage and not get interrupted is useful so I believe she’s niche now.
Same. Esp if you reach C2 Dehya. I’ve been running Dehya, Fischl, Kuki, Chev for months and it’s great. I’ll eventually build out Raiden or something to throw in there.
As a Cyno main this video scared me, but you were reasonable. Relief all around.
Jokes on everyone, Dehya's E synergizes well with Neuvillette's charged attack. I 36 starred abyss for the first time with vape Neuvillette (a viable f2p option for Neuvillette is 4 pc. Wanderer's Troupe)
Yup. And can also be combo'd with him in a Burgeon team.
It depends on the enemies and who you're using. For waves of enemies, Nahida isn't the best for a burgeon team because you would have to keep using her E to tag them beyond the cooldown requirements. My Yaoyao isn't built, so not a viable option for me rn.@@kichiroumitsurugi4363
Tighnari’s weapon is obtainable in the new chronicled wish banner
*was
This was probably recorded before it was out but hunters path and beacon both came out on the last chronicled wish banner and I expect on future chronicled wishes we will see them again
My go to team is still Alhaitham quicken with Miko providing off field electro, Kazuha swirling electro & grouping as needed & Baizhu for additional dendro application, healing/shielding.
Layla definitely one of the better 4 stars, she doesn't need C6 only C1 and she's amazing. The only downside of her is no F2P 4 star HP sword yet. She works perfectly as intended, 2nd best shielder. I have c6 thoma and zhongli, most of the time i chose layla for consistency for first floor and zhongli for 2nd floor. Thoma are more of a offensive side shielder than her but his shield uptime not consistent even with 245%ER
IMO dendro traveller still holds up. Sure, there is no situation where I would use over Nahida. However, if you need a second dendro off field/buffer traveller is usually the best option. Whenever I run 2 dendro teams in abyss, I always end-up using the traveller.
Tighnari‘s weapon did finally get a rerun recently with the chronicled wish banner!
Hunter's Path was on the Chronicled wish, so it'll probably be rerun again sometimes.
When it comes to my nilou and Keqing teams I’m still quick to use dendro MC. Especially in multi wave combat. That burst field is huge, fine with energy, and lasts a decent amount of time. He also frees up Nahida if I need her on the other floor.
You could get both tighnari and dehya’s signature weapons from chronicled wish along with the weapons on standard banner so im assuming thatll continue if/when it comes back
Honestly I hate what Nahida did to dendro, it's Xiangling problem all over again. I wish there was an alternative AoE off-field dendro applicator character (not circle impact), but the only one other than her is Baizhu, and he's single-target and doesn't do any damage (but he brings so much to the table it's understandable). It doesn't have to be as strong as her, I just want an alternative but it feels like there wouldn't be any and I hate it :/
In my experience, Dendro MC makes a great support for Alhaitham because his main damage source (Mirrors) scales off EM and inside inside Dendro travellers burst, you gain up to 60 EM which can improve Alhaithams damage quite a bit since 60 EM is roughly the value you'd get from a nice artifact, considering you also need CT and CDMG. Their burst can also make use of the 4-Piece dendro res. shred artifact. I'd put them in niche, even though their only value is tied to supporting Alhaitham. My team is currently Them, Alhaitham, Beidou/Fischl and Zhongli/xinqiou to make a spread or hyperbloom team. works well for most spiral abysses
new to the game and focusing on making an alhaitham team, but I really don’t know who to run with him, I have xingqiu but what comps should I try to build?
there is a purpose for candace infusion, is yaoyao on field inside a nilou comps. and yes u can use other hydro unit like xingqiu, yelan, etc, however u can use these better hydro unit outside nilou for ur other dps like hutao, alhaitam, etc
so if u have nilou and candace but only have 1 or 2 good hydro unit, u can use candace for nilou and let ur other dps use ur best hydro support
If you want to free Xinqiu/Yelan out of Nilou bloom, there is Barbara. Heck she is even better than those two in that team. No need placing Candace in Nilou teams since Barbara is there. Unless you just really want to use Candace but that is just making life harder so I see no other point.
I don't think she's good enough for abyss, if you're f2p your other 3 characters would probably not have enough damage to compensate a missing Xingqiu.
No you can easily clear without xq. And you can do it with Barbara, but yaoyao Candance Nilou nahida is a strong version to. The end result is pretty similar, but with way more survivability than Barbara (unfortunately full em barb heal for nothing). I even tested baizou in place of yaoyao but the result was still basically the same.
@@vanxxx3043 true, and yea, it depend on what player have tbh, candace is alright but out of all the hydro unit we have, she's the least useable unfortunately (excluding the hydro traveller, we don't talk about hydro traveller ever be useable)
even Mona can be use as dps or nuke support
@@r0n1n-in nilou bloom Candace is definitely better than xingqiu she bulit pretty much exclusively for tank stats and em while on fav to give lots of energy also since when swap units u get the aoe explosion she gives lot off hydro in aoe which is what nilou teams are run for
since she's so uncontested as a unit she allows u to use your xingqiu or yelan on a different team
3:42 you can only get the hunters path in the chronical wish banner. along with the beacon of the reed sea
Would you be willing to stream the games you make videos of? More specifically League and Smash?
CYNO ON THUMBNAIL LES GOOOOOO
Hunter's Path was actually featured in the weird new banner thing in the top half of 4.5
Just reminding, both Tighnari and Dehya weapons can come back on the new banner (forgot the name, the one with Albedo/Klee/Eula) so they're not lost forever, just that they need longer time to come back compared to the others
Candace does provide a decent elemental normal attack enhancement with her burst: the buff applies to all infusion types, so it can be good for Yoimiya teams or even the upcoming "Father". She's is pretty bad otherwise though.
Candace does have a good team in Nilou bloom w/ on field Yao Yao. Also Furina has opened up on-field Nilou as an option for Mono Hydro w/ Jean or Baizhu as the healer.
I've waited 2+ years to C6 Baizhu, and I'm not disappointed.
I don’t have c6 Dori but I’ve always found her useful with Tighnari and Miko especially. For me Dori always felt like the flip side of Kuki. Kuki is given high EM for hyperbloom but her healing suffers for it.
I give Dori sac greatsword and Deepwood and suddenly I have 100% uptime battery that heals and shreds dendro res. I know she’s not Cyno’s first pick but she resolves his energy and hp flaw pretty well too.
When we do power scaling videos we need to add a category of “became better with furina comps” like dehya is actually solid with furina
I was satisfied for my most recent 50/50 losses to be to Tighnari and Dehya, completing my "standard" roster. As for constellations, though, I've yet to contemplate which losses I would appreciate, besides Diluc's, since I'm halfway there with him already.
The Chronicled Wish allowing Tighnari and Dehya's signature weapons to rerun, and without the Weapon Banner pity thresholds, is a FOMO relief.
And I've accrued C6 Dori (and what will be C12 Gorou, after the upcoming event) on these past banners, and I am curious to on-field her in that complete forme.
at 3:42 is wrong i think you can get his signature weapon in the past chronical wish banner
Even with the new meta and direction of fontaine w/ its characters, i still always see myself coming back to nilou bloom. I have a bias on her but she is extremely comfy for me esp w/ yao yao, kokomi, nahida. It doesnt require big brain rotations, and i just like how pretty she goes when everything around her blows up. It's the best team I've invested on (c2r1 Nilou, c2Nahida) next to my Neuv Furina team. And I've been using that team to clear abyss as always
Tignari’s weapon had a rerun in the chronicled banner just over two weeks ago… 3:38
fwiw this weekend i 9 star cleared floor 11 easily with a kaveh main dps shatterbloom team and an overcharge quickswap team with dehya (both level 80). i personally would put those two at okay. there are teams to make them work even if they're awkardly designed. Still have to find a way to make Candace work, but I'll get there cause she's worth it ❤
I feel like Candace would've been really cool if her shield was special in some way that actually could be used to help other party members instead of just like... parry in a way. like maybe if you held the shield it would get put down or turn into something like Zhongli's shield for the party and when onfield she would take more damage and does more damage with the shield up, but if she's off field she gives damage reduction or maybe if the character hits 1 HP she forces a switch and does either a mini burst of damage that staggers enemies or grants a small heal. just something to keep them alive instead of just being a on field shielder for ONLY HERSELF.
or instead of that maybe she could give a unique shield that could react to other elements in special ways? like if dendro hits it she would create either a unique dendro core that cannot hurt her or her team, but does a little less damage or if electro hits her it either imbues the next normal attack with electro or gives the electro charged reaction to the enemy! geo would just make it stronger and Hydro would either replenish the shield a little or cause her to give a small heal to herself or the party. maybe anemo would cause a small knockback to occur that staggers small enemies and just moves bigger ones a very tiny bit back? Cryo could freeze the shield making it fragile and when enemies hit it maybe it would deal shatter damage to the on field character and the enemy? or maybe the cryo would solidify it and make the shield a lot stronger but lower movement speed a little? I'm stuck on Pyro though and am having difficulty coming with something for that one. maybe vaporize would somehow grant the player movement speed at the cost of the shield breaking easier against pyro hits?
even though it's almost absolutely certain her kit will never change I hope they change future stuff up and make unique characters when they give them such a sick backstory like hers. leave the shitty kits for characters like Dori who people already dislike for being greedy and annoying to them (even if i personally like her and find her greed slightly charming I won't ever use her because of the bad kit and I'm good with that). so hoyo please, let the cool characters have fun kits, and leave the ones that people barely like with the bad kits. I like almost all characters but don't mind some of the ones I like being shit. just don't do it to the ones like Candance ever again Hoyo PLEASE.
So I wasn’t gonna mention it but I think it is important to point out with tighnari and Deyha they have a chance to come back with their weapons in the future. Thanks to that new banner they introduced. Granted I don’t think the banners are worth it outside of pulling for the weapons but i figured I should at least point that out.
Missed the chronicled banner? That was the chance to get Hunter's Path. (where I got Beacon of the Reed Sea)
I still use DenMC, but I don't have Nahida. Or Alhaitham (who wouldn't work for my Cyno as an on-fielder anyway)
I run agg Cyno, Raiden, DenMC & Baizhu. Maybe I could replace DenMC w/ Kirara...?
Would recommend support mika for physical freminet, and the "dialogues of the desert sages" spear work great on him 👍 (not a must have but fun to play)
3:45 tighnari's weapon was recently in the chronicled wish banner and I was thankfully able to get it 🥳🥰 (let's not talk about the aquila favonia I got as well 😢)
I actually completely agree with this list for once. Usually I have one or two nitpicks, but no, I think this is 100% correct. My only "correction" would be Cyno is so much better now with Furina and Baizhu, but I don't believe in bumping characters up a tier because of specific supports (especially when those supports are limited 5 stars). So yeah, perfect list IMHO
That said, for sickos like me who enjoy using low tier characters, allow me to tell you how to use each and every "Were Never Good" character in a way that's actually fun to play! Optimal? Probably not, but they can still be played!
Candace can be played in a Xingqiu team letting either one of them be the main DPS/Driver (which ever you prefer to call it), if you really want that. I wanted to with Candace and I know people have wanted to main DPS Xingqiu, and this duo actually lets you do that! If you choose to put Candace as main DPS you will run into energy recharge problems, tho. The way I countered this was by putting her after Xingqiu. Xingqiu bursts, then E's then DODGES, then switch to Candace. That's the only way to guarantee Candace catches Xingqiu's particals because unfortunately Xingqiu is the game's only real hydro battery. If you have C6 Candace you can also use her in a Hu Tao team because C0 Yelan can't apply enough Hydro for her alone, but together the two can give Hu Tao all the hydro she needs along with extra HP from the Hydro Resonance
Dori is very much usable but, unfortunately, her main use comes from C6 when she can be an effective driver. But DAMN is she an effective driver because she basically becomes the Noelle of HYPER BLOOM! Because of her c6 she can act as both driver for that team and the healer to keep Furina's buffs ongoing! It's one of those insane teams like Razor's Thundering Furry, but is still quite good. And again I want to stress these are not meta builds, these are "I want to play X character builds and not feel like I'm wasting my time."
This may come as a shock to you, reader, but of all the characters here, I am most confident in Dehya. The reason being I use this team all the freaking time, because it's my favorite Neuvillette team. If you have Neuvillette at C0, then one of his best teams is Dehya, Nahida, and an Electro Support (I use Raiden because that makes this team non-burst reliant, but other characters like Fischl work, too.) The thing about this team is because Dehya applies so little pyro but Nahida applies so much dendro, they actually become a synergistic pair that allows for a burning reactions while *keeping* a dendro aura. Neuvillette can then use the burning aura to trigger vaporize, and you have 2/3 elemental reactions for Neuvillette's passive, the third of which is taken care of by the electro character. This along with the stagger resistance at the beginning of Dehya's E means this is a scuffed version of Neuvillette's C1. I mean it sincerely when I say of all the teams I think could actually be at least close to meta, this is the one. And the fact the Dehya is irreplaceable on it fills my heart with joy.
Lastly there's Kaveh. Unfortunately I don't have a killer team set-up for him like I do with the others. His only real good team where he can shine is as the driver for Nilou teams since his kit basically is still a supportive one rather than a DPS one, but that means his job is basically to make backline characters stronger. You know, like Xingqiu and Fischl. Because *they* really needed the help! Either way, this is still a good team for him and if you love Kaveh, pick up a Nilou and don't let anyone talk you out of playing him!
layla is wanderers bis if you need a shield on him (+20%crit)
also her shield is crazy strong
You gotta check Jello's video about Dori.. even he was surprised at what Dori can do and she's definitely underrated..
I didn't pull for many version 3 character so this is an interesting retrospect for me
Feeling so sad for Cyno, I got him c6 r1 and my Neuvillette surpasses him in every scenario, I still hope Sethoes will make him better
I found 1 very specific use for Mika where he's best in slot.
Wanderer freeze team:
Wanderer, Furina, Mika, Layla (or flex). Mika is very good here since his healing output is needed for Furina burst boost and his skill fastens Wanderers NAs. Layla as shielder preferably since Wanderer likes stagger resistance and she gives a small NA damage boost with her C4 and she also is the needed Cryo application to enable freeze.