Thought I'd leave a comment here to address some feedback I am receiving as it seems that there are (at the time of this post) a few voicing their concerns about my takes. I appreciate such as it shows me that you care about this sort of conversation [of representation (much like I do)], though it also appears that most posts here don't do more than "I disagree" and nothing more. If you want your voice to leave an impact, I would encourage those that have such an inclination to make more of a substantiated case than the mentioned "I disagree" and dip combo™. To be fair, TH-cam comments are not the best place to have such a conversation. However, I am more than willing to have that conversation through discord or even twitter DMs if desired. Otherwise I am (and most individuals for that matter) not going to have the stance(s) changed and thus your efforts are futile. I do like the algorithm boosting you give me though so I guess I should just stop here so that I don't continue to strive after self growth rather than abusing the masses for their ignorance :) Have a day
Sure, squirtle outneutrals kkr heavily. Basically kkr side b means a free grab, whiff punishing krools landing aerials is no problem with sliding ftilt. Everything is a commitment for kkr vs squirtle. One opening usually means a true, inescapable combo offstage where squirtle can force kkr to go low with watergun + dtilt catching ads to ledge. And once kkr has to go low it's basically a mini game to dair him over and over again until he dies, there's no real mixup kkr can use once below the stage. Yes kkr advantage is great vs pt (which usually is the case for pt mus) but it's not a one opening = without hc reads. Also pt can easily camp with squirtle once in lead. Kkr being able to play around getting juggled quite well is also pretty irrelevant as pt always wants to get the croc offstage
This is a perfect case example of what I refer to as those with the strife but not the scope. There are many knowledge gaps being present in your argument as a result of not taking the extra step of how well different engagements befall differing levels of capacity. Sure a given character may be able to have some sort of means to play around a given thing, but this is similar to what is used for the typical "Low Tier's Lament" does to justify their stances of "my character isn't actually bad". One may see things such as "If my character just does ___, ___, and ___, then my character just wins this MU" despite needing to make several guesses to be successful from the interactions that befall. You speak on this later on of this sort of thing being in existence, but it appears that this connection has not been made as to the scope of the ideal (among other Fundamental logistical issues that spawn from this) thus not representing an augment well. Here's a core example that you use as a cornerstone of your argument which is categorically of the above classification: "One opening usually means a true, inescapable combo offstage where Squirtle can force King K Rool to go low with Watergun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge. And once King K Rool has to go low it's basically a mini game to D-Air him over and over again until he dies, there's no real mixup King K Rool can use once below the stage." Here is a conclusion onset via a vacancy of knowledge from not establishing the derivatives from the exchange(s) while also lacking some tools for such. This is because of 5 big components that make the exchange a mix-up at every step of the way making the apparent advantage not nearly as extreme as one may think. The first step on the chopping block is the combo component. Squirtle as a character is capable of dishing out solid combos on the majority of the cast with it relating to K Rool in that he will succumb to more damage from his characteristics. You make this connection well so I have no gripe with that. What I do think is not paid tribute though is the whole element of needing to guess correctly to get the combo in the first place. The next issue is what is said after in that you state "...combo offstage where Squirtle can force King K Rool to go low with Water Gun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge". This assumes that the actions that befall this are unavoidable and thus at no cost for Squirtle to go for. For one, the very nature of setting the opponent out from a combo finisher establishes a mix-up on its own. How this correlates to K Rool is that his weight is facilitating the double edged sword, as any attribute does, [while also being compounded by Squirtle's low knockback moves] to then not be sent far off stage making him in position to go for various mix-ups [with some of them even being named by you]. Additionally, attaining Water Gun charge is in and of itself another commitment for one needs to first perform the option and sacrifice positioning to get charge in the first place thus giving K Rool even more alleyways to success. It is better to try and make the matches as one sided as possible to better one's odds the most yet you think that going for an options that give more means to escape is ideal (note: I do not think the given options are categorically "bad" just that your perspective on them is shoddy). Let's assume that you opt to not attain charge and instead perform the combo and try to play around the established mix-up scenario. What you claim that is one sided here is: "...force King K Rool to go low with Water Gun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge. And once King K Rool has to go low it's basically a mini game to D-Air him over and over again until he dies...". Since certain recovery routes can be limited by Water Gun (given the parent mix-ups are won beforehand) in the horizontal department, what service does Squirtle D-Tilt have here? K Rool's hitbox on his Up Special is too large for Squirtle to challenge [as K Rool would potentially be forced to go low] so lets try going at this with a different approach. Switching to Ivysaur to then challenge K Rool's Up Special is one that can work in theory, but there are three elements of Ivysaur's D-Air that makes it still yet a commitment. The move has a only 2 frames of activity, a comparably high amount of landing lag, and has a 11 frame start up. This makes the move having a big timing dependency as to if Ivysaur can land the move at all. One may think that K Rool is more vulnerable to the move as a result of K Rool's Up Special being slow to ascend (and the established aspect of Ivysaur D-Air going through it), however there are still timings that K Rool can use to get around it while also having another tool to get around it entirely. Up Air. King K Rool's Up Air is a fast, disjointed, and armored that is capable of going through every single massive D-Air in the game thanks to the armor taking priority of K Rool's other hurt-boxes. There is also the aspect of switching itself being a commitment thus further limiting the timings one would be able to cover K Rool's recovery outlets. TL;DR The game is too complicated to be solvable with your misconstrued perspective making one seek satiation/ sanction rather than growth. I could go on about the rest of it, but I think this is sufficient as to what I am talking about. If you plan on returning to this, I would encourage you to come in with more robust ideals lest you take any given TL;DR at face value. I am not asking for you to be not biased (as this is an impossible ask), more so to try and become a better you as one should not ask more than that from anyone.
@@smithers8360 No No, you are Missunderstanding This Video is Important for me since im a K rool Secondary and want to Main him some day...Its just that Beginning was hilarious and im not sure how to describe it
There is one of two ways to perform an instant B-Air... 1.) An iRAR (Instant Reverse Aerial Rush) with one needing to perform a frame perfect jump (upon the back input) amongst a quick back and forth motion during initial dash to get such an outcome. 2.) Slingshot (the often overlooked general movement aid as of the writing of this comment) is a means that removes the back input with a 135 degree rotation/ stick roll towards the other side to ensure one doesn't dash back [for even initial dash] thus adding a massive leeway as to when ought to jump during the sequence. Be sure to not bring the stick all the way to the other side to ensure one doesn't dash. Note: It is unideal to use such small/ frail controller for such a fast paced game like Smash (especially if you want to "git gud"). If you can help it, I would try to move over to another controller. I hope this helps!
I disagree with a decent bit but the upper half I agree with more but Pac-Man still makes no sense to me, I play Pac-Man and krool and I think it’s a top ten mu for Pac-Man, you have almost free edgeguards, ledgetraps, it’s if Steve wasn’t pressured as easily
I could go on about how your stances don't have that much merit, but I think spelling it out towards one (that is admittedly not as noted directly in the video) of such stances will suffice as to what is ideal for determining how various engagement can play out. Something I think that should be considered (of the things I did not mention in the video) is the interaction of hydrant towards edge guards. Note the similarities and differences per the notes about Kirby [specifically over stone] thus allowing one to conclude Pac-Man's lack of means to skew an edge guard nearly as well as Kirby. A key component towards this stance is that Pac-Man does not chase K Rool after making an attempt unlike Kirby thus not forcing constant pressure under the scenario. This allows for more alleyways for K Rool to come back through the varying of timings one attempts to recover while also having access to alternative options (with respect to Kirby) such as reflecting the Hydrant (which can be reacted to and guaranteed since the Hydrant cannot be stopped in it's path giving the possibility of disabling the use of Hydrant for a short time as a result of the Hydrant staying in play for longer and that Pac-Man can only have 1 Hydrant out at a time). Even in cases where K Rool is hit and is not sent into the stage, the launch angle is so high that DI-ing in yields more alleyways to recover there after making the following scenario at best a mixup squabble. This situation is even more complementary for Kirby despite the similar Knockback angle to Stone since K Rool is more susceptible to Kirby playing around what he does after being hit. This is a result of having a B-Air that can break the crown armor and that he has a command grab to beat even other armored options. There is also the aspect that K Rool cannot contest Stone with Up Air as he doesn't exceed the damage threshold with it (this is even if the move is fresh and Full Hopped). TL;DR K Rool has way more means to playing around Pac-Man than Kirby [in an edge guard] as a result of some smaller nuances that take a while to explain. I really tried to not ramble on about certain characters, especially ones with similar attributes to others/ are not nearly as relevant of a topic to cover, so that we don't have 500 parts to this thing. Be vigilant about what I am saying, but also think why I may not have talked about certain things as a result of the principle stated.
@@smithers8360 When I talk about Pac-Man edgeguards I’m not generally referring to hydrant, traditional or just going for a setup like soupys gambit, krool crown armor isnt a huge threat, you can just mash on it or just grab and get a combo off it or advantage state to charge fruit etc
Thought I'd leave a comment here to address some feedback I am receiving as it seems that there are (at the time of this post) a few voicing their concerns about my takes. I appreciate such as it shows me that you care about this sort of conversation [of representation (much like I do)], though it also appears that most posts here don't do more than "I disagree" and nothing more. If you want your voice to leave an impact, I would encourage those that have such an inclination to make more of a substantiated case than the mentioned "I disagree" and dip combo™. To be fair, TH-cam comments are not the best place to have such a conversation. However, I am more than willing to have that conversation through discord or even twitter DMs if desired. Otherwise I am (and most individuals for that matter) not going to have the stance(s) changed and thus your efforts are futile. I do like the algorithm boosting you give me though so I guess I should just stop here so that I don't continue to strive after self growth rather than abusing the masses for their ignorance :)
Have a day
Sure, squirtle outneutrals kkr heavily. Basically kkr side b means a free grab, whiff punishing krools landing aerials is no problem with sliding ftilt. Everything is a commitment for kkr vs squirtle. One opening usually means a true, inescapable combo offstage where squirtle can force kkr to go low with watergun + dtilt catching ads to ledge. And once kkr has to go low it's basically a mini game to dair him over and over again until he dies, there's no real mixup kkr can use once below the stage. Yes kkr advantage is great vs pt (which usually is the case for pt mus) but it's not a one opening = without hc reads. Also pt can easily camp with squirtle once in lead. Kkr being able to play around getting juggled quite well is also pretty irrelevant as pt always wants to get the croc offstage
This is a perfect case example of what I refer to as those with the strife but not the scope. There are many knowledge gaps being present in your argument as a result of not taking the extra step of how well different engagements befall differing levels of capacity. Sure a given character may be able to have some sort of means to play around a given thing, but this is similar to what is used for the typical "Low Tier's Lament" does to justify their stances of "my character isn't actually bad". One may see things such as "If my character just does ___, ___, and ___, then my character just wins this MU" despite needing to make several guesses to be successful from the interactions that befall. You speak on this later on of this sort of thing being in existence, but it appears that this connection has not been made as to the scope of the ideal (among other Fundamental logistical issues that spawn from this) thus not representing an augment well.
Here's a core example that you use as a cornerstone of your argument which is categorically of the above classification:
"One opening usually means a true, inescapable combo offstage where Squirtle can force King K Rool to go low with Watergun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge. And once King K Rool has to go low it's basically a mini game to D-Air him over and over again until he dies, there's no real mixup King K Rool can use once below the stage."
Here is a conclusion onset via a vacancy of knowledge from not establishing the derivatives from the exchange(s) while also lacking some tools for such. This is because of 5 big components that make the exchange a mix-up at every step of the way making the apparent advantage not nearly as extreme as one may think. The first step on the chopping block is the combo component. Squirtle as a character is capable of dishing out solid combos on the majority of the cast with it relating to K Rool in that he will succumb to more damage from his characteristics. You make this connection well so I have no gripe with that. What I do think is not paid tribute though is the whole element of needing to guess correctly to get the combo in the first place. The next issue is what is said after in that you state "...combo offstage where Squirtle can force King K Rool to go low with Water Gun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge". This assumes that the actions that befall this are unavoidable and thus at no cost for Squirtle to go for. For one, the very nature of setting the opponent out from a combo finisher establishes a mix-up on its own. How this correlates to K Rool is that his weight is facilitating the double edged sword, as any attribute does, [while also being compounded by Squirtle's low knockback moves] to then not be sent far off stage making him in position to go for various mix-ups [with some of them even being named by you]. Additionally, attaining Water Gun charge is in and of itself another commitment for one needs to first perform the option and sacrifice positioning to get charge in the first place thus giving K Rool even more alleyways to success. It is better to try and make the matches as one sided as possible to better one's odds the most yet you think that going for an options that give more means to escape is ideal (note: I do not think the given options are categorically "bad" just that your perspective on them is shoddy). Let's assume that you opt to not attain charge and instead perform the combo and try to play around the established mix-up scenario. What you claim that is one sided here is: "...force King K Rool to go low with Water Gun + D-Tilt catching [air dodges] to ledge. And once King K Rool has to go low it's basically a mini game to D-Air him over and over again until he dies...". Since certain recovery routes can be limited by Water Gun (given the parent mix-ups are won beforehand) in the horizontal department, what service does Squirtle D-Tilt have here? K Rool's hitbox on his Up Special is too large for Squirtle to challenge [as K Rool would potentially be forced to go low] so lets try going at this with a different approach. Switching to Ivysaur to then challenge K Rool's Up Special is one that can work in theory, but there are three elements of Ivysaur's D-Air that makes it still yet a commitment. The move has a only 2 frames of activity, a comparably high amount of landing lag, and has a 11 frame start up. This makes the move having a big timing dependency as to if Ivysaur can land the move at all. One may think that K Rool is more vulnerable to the move as a result of K Rool's Up Special being slow to ascend (and the established aspect of Ivysaur D-Air going through it), however there are still timings that K Rool can use to get around it while also having another tool to get around it entirely. Up Air. King K Rool's Up Air is a fast, disjointed, and armored that is capable of going through every single massive D-Air in the game thanks to the armor taking priority of K Rool's other hurt-boxes. There is also the aspect of switching itself being a commitment thus further limiting the timings one would be able to cover K Rool's recovery outlets.
TL;DR The game is too complicated to be solvable with your misconstrued perspective making one seek satiation/ sanction rather than growth.
I could go on about the rest of it, but I think this is sufficient as to what I am talking about. If you plan on returning to this, I would encourage you to come in with more robust ideals lest you take any given TL;DR at face value. I am not asking for you to be not biased (as this is an impossible ask), more so to try and become a better you as one should not ask more than that from anyone.
Im not Sure what Brent is gonna say about that Beginning But thanks for the Matchup Guide
I appreciate your gratitude, but do you mind explaining who/ what you are referring to about the beginning of the video?
@@smithers8360 No No, you are Missunderstanding This Video is Important for me since im a K rool Secondary and want to Main him some day...Its just that Beginning was hilarious and im not sure how to describe it
hey wanted to ask how you are able to jump backwards so fast for forward throw into bair ive tried but im too slow ( i play on joy cons)
There is one of two ways to perform an instant B-Air...
1.) An iRAR (Instant Reverse Aerial Rush) with one needing to perform a frame perfect jump (upon the back input) amongst a quick back and forth motion during initial dash to get such an outcome.
2.) Slingshot (the often overlooked general movement aid as of the writing of this comment) is a means that removes the back input with a 135 degree rotation/ stick roll towards the other side to ensure one doesn't dash back [for even initial dash] thus adding a massive leeway as to when ought to jump during the sequence. Be sure to not bring the stick all the way to the other side to ensure one doesn't dash.
Note: It is unideal to use such small/ frail controller for such a fast paced game like Smash (especially if you want to "git gud"). If you can help it, I would try to move over to another controller.
I hope this helps!
@@smithers8360 thx for the advice i've been thinking of picking up a pro controller i think ill try sling shoting first
I am once again making a comment on my own video because I am now in too deep on a running gag.
Also... second... ecks dee
yayyaayayaa
Dang, ya beat me to it 😔
I disagree with a decent bit but the upper half I agree with more but Pac-Man still makes no sense to me, I play Pac-Man and krool and I think it’s a top ten mu for Pac-Man, you have almost free edgeguards, ledgetraps, it’s if Steve wasn’t pressured as easily
I could go on about how your stances don't have that much merit, but I think spelling it out towards one (that is admittedly not as noted directly in the video) of such stances will suffice as to what is ideal for determining how various engagement can play out.
Something I think that should be considered (of the things I did not mention in the video) is the interaction of hydrant towards edge guards. Note the similarities and differences per the notes about Kirby [specifically over stone] thus allowing one to conclude Pac-Man's lack of means to skew an edge guard nearly as well as Kirby. A key component towards this stance is that Pac-Man does not chase K Rool after making an attempt unlike Kirby thus not forcing constant pressure under the scenario. This allows for more alleyways for K Rool to come back through the varying of timings one attempts to recover while also having access to alternative options (with respect to Kirby) such as reflecting the Hydrant (which can be reacted to and guaranteed since the Hydrant cannot be stopped in it's path giving the possibility of disabling the use of Hydrant for a short time as a result of the Hydrant staying in play for longer and that Pac-Man can only have 1 Hydrant out at a time). Even in cases where K Rool is hit and is not sent into the stage, the launch angle is so high that DI-ing in yields more alleyways to recover there after making the following scenario at best a mixup squabble. This situation is even more complementary for Kirby despite the similar Knockback angle to Stone since K Rool is more susceptible to Kirby playing around what he does after being hit. This is a result of having a B-Air that can break the crown armor and that he has a command grab to beat even other armored options. There is also the aspect that K Rool cannot contest Stone with Up Air as he doesn't exceed the damage threshold with it (this is even if the move is fresh and Full Hopped).
TL;DR K Rool has way more means to playing around Pac-Man than Kirby [in an edge guard] as a result of some smaller nuances that take a while to explain.
I really tried to not ramble on about certain characters, especially ones with similar attributes to others/ are not nearly as relevant of a topic to cover, so that we don't have 500 parts to this thing. Be vigilant about what I am saying, but also think why I may not have talked about certain things as a result of the principle stated.
@@smithers8360 When I talk about Pac-Man edgeguards I’m not generally referring to hydrant, traditional or just going for a setup like soupys gambit, krool crown armor isnt a huge threat, you can just mash on it or just grab and get a combo off it or advantage state to charge fruit etc
No pt krool is not even wth are you on about lmaaaaao
Most biased K rool player
Dude he doesnt beat bowser
He zones out bowser and nair beats every approach option besides side b but it’s still kind of inconsistent.