So much value in these old Leafs. You squeeze every mile you can out of the vehicle and then take it apart and it's a powerwall for your house, plus motors for other projects.
@@vtorsi610 Cycle life is determined by temperature, and depth/speed of discharge. If you operate a Leaf module capacity bank within that sweet spot, they actually deliver incredible longevity. th-cam.com/video/hjJh4nJ3I44/w-d-xo.html Here is a Leaf with 210k miles on the original battery. Staggering longevity and performance when operated within ideal parameters
@@InnovativeSustainableSolutions Yes, we all know ... if you barely use the battery it will last much longer. But, your reply does not answer my question. Most Off-Grid homes, do actually discharge their battery bank, sometimes severely, on a daily basis. The seller has no idea what temperature these USED Nissan Leaf Modules where exposed to, when they were inside the vehicle. Or how many cycles, were already extracted. Or the min, average or max % DOD used by the car. The seller has no clue how many more CYCLES ( even say @ 50% DOD ) remain in the pack. How can the buyer make a wise decision when there are so few facts available? The only fact we have is ... the pack is already severely degraded down to 60% of its Original Capacity. 40% of the original capacity is gone forever!!! With only a 30 day warranty, this is a crap shoot and maybe a huge waste of time and money. At just 50% DOD daily how many more CYCLES can we get? I hear crickets! A Battleborn battery is guaranteed for 100% DOD every day for 10 YEARS !!! And then in 10 YEARS my Battleborn battery will be a USED pack ( for "FREE" ) that is equivalent to the above pack. So, why would I pay for a USED battery pack today, with essentially no warranty, when my new Battleborn will become a "free" USED pack in 10 YEARS? If this USED Nissan Leaf battery pack cannot be used at 100% DOD ( 38 Amp-Hours ) daily for at least 6 YEARS, or 50% DOD ( only 14 Amp-Hours ) daily for 12 YEARS, then a Battleborn is a CHEAPER purchase. This USED Leaf module ( with falsely advertised "100% Capacity" ratings via the ebay link ) is no bargain ...
@@vtorsi610 I know a little bit about off grid power, and heavy discharge cycles (I will cite my channel as my resume). I would respectfully postulate that you are overcomplicating the calculation by trying to guess what kind of abuse the Leaf Pack went through before you bought it. For the purposes of a DIY home powerwall it really doesn't matter. This is because the FUTURE degradation of the battery is what matters to the purchaser. And that is determined EXCLUSIVELY by the conditions we (the DIY home powerwall folks) expose the battery too. To answer your question about how many cycles you can get out of a Leaf module (Gen1 chemistry: lithium-manganese-oxide with nickel oxide) the answer is around 5,000. Rougly 60% the cycle life of the LiFePo4 chemistry used in battleborn batteries. So Battleborn batteries are BETTER than Leaf modules, but are they cheaper in the long run? I Leaf battery pack off Ebay will run you 1,000-1,100 dollars and have a capacity of 10-14kwh. We'll go with the underperformers and say 10kwh. Properly maintained (cooled, and professionally bms'd) you can get years of heavy daily use out of this pack, but honestly, I advise people to not even start until they can afford 2 or 3 packs. So we're out $3,500 and we have atleast a 30kwh powerwall, that can give us 3 years minimum (probably 5) of 90% DOD. Most of us off-griders are not rich, so I realize a $3,500 powerwall is a stretch. But compare that to a Battleborn bank. A 30kwh system would run you $30,000. Sure it would last twice as long, but it would cost you 9X as much. I'm not a huge Jehu fan, he's been pretty rude to me before when I was just getting started and asked a stupid question, and I think Battleborn's are good batteries, but for cost comparison in the long run, for large powerwalls: The Leaf packs blow them out of the water.
Thank You , i am the solar man of Lehigh Acres Fl and thanks to you i am now building my Plug N Play Solar Boxes with Lithium Batteries. It will cost more but i believe that it will be worth it when you figure 90% discharge rate.
All of the provided buss bars, covers, balance lead lugs and even the terminal bolts are original Nissan leaf pack parts. Compression plates including ones with welded nuts are built into the pack. Its a treasure box of parts.
I have a 2011 LEAF with a 2016 battery, perhaps these and crashed cars are some of the sources. 😀 Warranty upgrade to 30kw seemed possible on pre 2018s
Thanks for testing these. I'm looking into building a powerwall and my source of 18650's has dried up and I only have about 500 useful cells out of the 1300 I got. I had been looking at these exact cells as an easy option since it's just a few bolts and not 1000's of solder/spot welds. I'm sad to hear that they could already be 50% degraded. Not worth the money at that level, if they were better, then I could see them being a cheaper alternative to Tesla modules.
Those batteries are stacked with spacers in the leaf battery so when bolted with the all thread the pressure is spread across the top and bottom edges and not on the center of the cells. This allows for some pouch expansion and contraction with heat and avoids pressurizing the pouches by compressing the pack. Perhaps you can source the spacers with the cells? It would be safer.
If it gets hot/warm at all that is energy lost. A slight amount of heat can be huge in regards to Efficiency. If you are going to use these for a powerwall, for sure, use much bigger cables. Whatever size wire anyone tells you to use, double the size.
I did something similar, but instead of buying individual modules, I just bought a whole Leaf battery from a wrecker.. That cost me $3500 for the 48 modules in the battery pack, and I just reused the Leaf's hardware (plus some threaded rod) to make my own 48V packs. And I didn't mess with a BMS, because the Leaf cells are pretty robust, and after using them for nearly 4 years, they are doing fine. Maybe they don't have the pretty case, but that doesn't affect their function.
I'm in the process of building a 24 kwh 48 cell g2 solar battery, I was curious what you did for an invertor. How big off an invertor would you recommend for this large of storage? 10-12 KW? Any insite would be appreciated.
@@baileybonham1750 I am using a Xantrex XW6048 6kW inverter, and I used the full pack. You can program the charge and discharge voltages to make sure you never overcharge, or over discharge the batteries. The main use is to collect solar, and charge my EV. But it depends on what you are planning your system for.
@@EleTruk Hi !! I m using an inverter quite similar but with normal batteries !! How did you configure the inverter charger to charge lithium packs .... I would like to switch to lithium ... thanks !
@@carlosgorjao4037 I just set the voltage to make sure they never exceed the max or minumum of the batteries. The absolute max voltage on a Leaf battery is 8.4V, so if you never go above 8V you are good. Also on the minimum if you make sure the inverter never draws below the battery's minimum voltage which is 7.2V (absolute minimum is 5V, but that's damage the cell territory). I use a solar MPPT charger to charge the batteries, not the inverter. I just set the absorption/float voltages to the same max voltage, so with 6 Leaf batteries per pack (for a 48V system), the max voltage would be 48V, and the minimum would be 43.2V. Stay within those limits and the batteries should be fine, they have been for me. You won't get the max storage the cells are capable of, but they will last much longer if you don't push the extremes.
@@EleTruk If you do not have a BMS then you cannot set the individual CELL voltage, you can control ONLY the min/max PACK voltage. You are like the guy who runs every red light ... Hey man, not a problem for me ... Until one day, you have a fatal crash = BIG problem ...
A much better question to cover is "HOW ARE THEY GETTING THESE BATTERIES?". When I tried to acquire them from the dealers, insurance companies, etc, none of them even wanted to talk to me. So how are they getting their hands on so many of them?
You have to go into places. Phone calls don't work for real bulk buys unless you want to pay a lot of $$$. I resell laptop batteries by the 100s, just went into a couple recycling places and started talking with people, got some contacts and found some good places.
Jehu - - - how many cycles can you get out of these? That's an important number for solar! (1 cycle = 1 day). I know they're listed as ~70% - but that's voltage, not remaining cycles! (anyone??)
@Dennis Jemison How long has your used Nissan Battery Bank actually been operating? How man CYCLES have you put on it? How much has the capacity degraded?
@Dennis Jemison These batteries have already LOST 30% of their capacity! And now you say we should not charge to 100% SOC, nor Discharge down to 100% DOD? Lets say we charge up to 80% SOC and down to 30% SOC. So, we now only get 50% of the already reduced 70% = only 35% of the original capacity - How is that a DEAL ???
@Dennis Jemison These are ( severely degraded - old style ) GEN 1 Packs, not the ( new style ) GEN 2 packs. Therefore, you did *NOT* buy what is being advertised in this video ... So, take your irrelevant BS and shove it, yourself ... I love it when idiots, like you, don't even watch the video ...
The first generation Nissan leaf batteries have a serious issue with battery degradation due to no significant cooling system in the car. My fear would be that that degradation percentage continues to increase over time making them not have a very long life after you have purchased them.
Very interesting and pedagogic video ! I will go to build this !! What will be the recommended voltage and current to charge this 48 v pack ? What kind of charger … does it need to regulate the voltage and current ? Or the BMS does it ? Thanks and regards.
Seems interesting to keep my Leaf pack with 97 modules instead of getting the ~ 1000 € refund from Nissan for my pack if i decide to replace it. Anyway a great solution for recycling in a powerwall. Most people in Germany argue against EV's because they think that the production of the EV battery causes more pollution than the car will save. But they don't look Yt videos like yours :)
@@gonesilent2814 interesting question. If Nissan solds a new one for about 6000 € and gives you 1000 for the old I assume the customer can decide what to make with the old one as long you are the owner of the battery that you bought with the car.
I am a Nissan tech and they will not even let me buy an old battery for the core charge. They make the customer sign a contract saying that they can't keep the old battery.
What is the Difference if i burn car fuel or Coal ? Right no differense ecsept the *huge* energy losses from Generators to the Car battery and on the road + the lithium waste.
From what I can tell, TechDirect lists the manufactures specs on all their ebay auctions. Its kind of deceptive because they list the "New" specs but give you a run down battery. So if they're selling a 7kw battery pack, you might only get 4 kw of actual battery. To get what you pay for, you have to know about the vehicle the batteries came out of. What year and how many miles on the vehicle.
I agree, I have purchased 42 Batteries from techdirect,(2 orders) and not a single one is greater than 43AH most are >40, discouraging when they advertise 66ah but in reality your 1/3 less I have since moved over to greentechybridbatteries (Ebay) purchased 45 batteries, all are closer to 45-52AH (they are also well balanced ) same general prices..
@ RGB VCoilro - Greenn Tech Auto does give some detail on their Ebay auctions - "... Nissan only replaced the batteries after the SOH level dropped from 12 bars to 8 bars or lower, so there is *NO* *CHANCE* they are going to be 70% capacity or more, the average we have been seeing is 65% capacity. The capacity within one pack can vary up to 3 Ah on average, sometimes up to 7Ah. We sort our modules based on the tested capacity and ship groups within 1Ah of each other, usually less. In large orders we might have a larger range. This listing is for modules near the 40Ah test range. You could receive anywhere from 38Ah to 43Ah modules. Whichever group you receive will be within 1Ah of each other. "OFFERS" received will lean toward the lower capacity, "FULL PRICE" buyers will receive the highest capacity available. Come with 1 month warranty. ..."
If you haven't already, maybe revisit these batteries? I have seen other videos where the used leaf battery packs have between 70-90 percent of their original capacy and the price is much lower.
Over in Australia, there was discussion of a class action suit because the first 3 years of Leaf has NO battery temperature control. As a result, instead of 70-80KM range, they are down to 20-30km range. Nissan's solution was "Buy a new $12,000 battery pack". That did not go over well. A 50-60% degradation in 3 years? UGH!! If you get those, or batteries from Souther California, Texas, etc, you will have a battery that is just about useless... Now if they are from the pacific northwest, and were driven by a grandmother to church once a week... well, Great!!! I'm looking at the lifepo4 types...
Do you think the jkbms with 2 Amp active balance would be a.good choice for a leaf battery. I have 24 cells set up in a 24 volt configuration and have been using it a year with no bms but people say it's dangerous and that I need a bms. I ordered a jkbms and I hope it works for what I need
Hi there! Thanks for your impressive video. Can you tell me a charger I can buy for 48 volt lithium ion batteries with 24khw? In other words, entire leaf batteries.
I love the design of the cell. But your right about the cost. How many cycles will the pack go through before you notice a performance degradation is noticed?
1 cycle. Doh. It is subjective, and whatever it is worth it, depends on a size, over size, how deep you discharge, exact price (plus BMS price and mounting), what was the capacity they were initial at, temperature, etc.
Did I hear correctly? You got 280 watt-hours from ONE CELL of a two-cell pack (technically 2S-2P)? Rated for 500 watt-hours, a total of 560 watt-hours is 110% rated capacity. I'm sure the provider of that pack would appreciate a correction in the video if warranted.
apologies, I am green in the subject. I would like the complete procedure. Is it a state of a health check? where I could find material to learn step by step, please.
Good Morning. I was thinking of a 12 Volt sys in a trailer that has solar power. What do you think of that and do think the cost over AGM batteries? Jack
@jehugarcia Tech Direct doesn't have any of this kit available in their ebay store. They have the cells, but dont seem to be selling the fancy metal brackets/box/bms.
All I ever get from them is the modules regardless of what is shown in the ads. Buss bars or brackets are never sent, they refund instead of offer the brackets you see on their Ebay pages.
Hey jehu, would you mind to ask to Community whats the batterysituation for used batterys/packs around the world like ?! I am especially interested in Germany and neihbouring countrys. the questions could be like; Is it legal to sell battery without protection? Where can I find a good deal ? and so on. A new videoseries called" Batterys around the world".
that woud be interesting to see. I live in Germany and as far as i know it is legal to sell any type of battery as long as it is as parts and not as a finished product. The problem woud be delivery in large amounts since the transport company will have to do some safety checks. Sadly as far as i have searched over the last 2 years there are no reliable and cheap battery sources like in the us right now.
The area I live in in the United States, the local scrap yards refuse to sell them to me. Cash in hand but will not sell them. It's legal but someone else must be getting them.
@@kevinroberts781 Germany has one big Problem..... Useless Laws. Im really good at repairing pretty much any electronic device. My local junk jard has containers full of laptop's and really extensive flat screen televisions. But it is forbidden by law to re purpose anything that people have brought there. Even if someone woud throw a 3000$ PC in there you woud get sued for stealing if you take it out.
Actually guys, living in Finland, I get most of my cells from Germany. "Shop dot Lipopower dot de". They don't sell used cells, but they have high quality cells at a good price. It's also possible to get sales from the Netherlands or Czech Republic, but in those examples you almost never know what you're getting. I know there's a big market for repurposed cells, but new cells are pretty reasonably priced for a big project with long lifetime. If I'm just building small DIY projects, maybe the new cells are too expensive for some. If I were back home in the US I would probably consider some used batteries but not here in the EU
Nice video. I have a question. Can I build a 3S battery bank with Leaf modules? For an example let's say I have two leaf modules. Can I build a 3S2P bank with them?
I got a really great deal here in Japan for a whole second generation 24kWh Leaf pack (All 48 Modules) for around 1000USD with only about 20% degradation...Thats about 45-50USD per kWh! It seems like anywhere else in the world they are way overpriced.
So... the way it looked in the video was as if this was a company product. The link Jehu is providing goes to an eBay sale to something that *looks nothing like* what he had in this video... *Am I Missing Something?*
I see where they have the pack of 7 batteries on the vendor ebay store. Do they also sell the kit you used along with the BMS and the metal box you used in your video? I don't see that in their store.
Hey boss I'm really in need of a battery bank for my new home unfortunately it's a RV I feel like a failure what should I look for in my search I have played around with ev batteries before but I need a professional opinion on what's best
I know you don't recommend capacitors but if you have appliances or tools with a high start up draw of current, they help, they can keep voltage at a constant rather then a several volt dip in power plus if your on edge, not much leeway with extra amps, they absorb that startup draw. Just a thought. I know you are far more knowledgeable then I but I have seen on a buddies system with capacitor, hardly a drop in voltage where he was getting 3to almost 5 volt drop without capacitor. :)
What is the total cost for that pack? The links in the description don't seem to include the brackets and bms, just the cells. Also would you say that 2kwh is the theoretical max of new cells or measured capacity of 50-60% degraded cells?
Hey bud I was wondering what you would say is a good or maybe even the best all around charger for large/normal size batteries. I like the way this one in the video looks. I'm tired of these crappy hobby chargers off of eBay and Amazon. Thanks ahead of time. Peace.
Did you only check half the cell? Need to check from negative to center post also. Then add the 2 tests together. Doubling the ah rating. Or if your charger will do it, check at 7.2 volt charge/discharge.
I don't get why people get excited by buying random used batteries. You have no idea what people did to them let alone how many cycles are likely to be left. Spend the extra bit and get new cells and less worry.
@@Gskill2011 It looks like they charged too much for batteries that were so degraded. With 56% of juice left in them they are not good for this application. Probably 7-8 years old first generation batteries. Compare with Tesla batteries, those will lose 10-12% in the first two years and then the process slows to 1-2% a year. Purchasing used or expired batteries is hit and miss and people are understandably cautious.
Could you run a custom built e -scooter?And if you could I was thinking this 7 batteries would be perfect I think let me know maybe we can build it together
I thought the GEN 1 Modules were rated at 66 Amp-Hours? But in the video, Jehu only got *38.5* Ah, which means 40% of this modules capacity is already gone, forever ...
Thanks for the video. I just purchased a complete package with 48 modules for my solar backup. My inverter can run from 10-16v systems. Do you recommend that I refrain from discharging all the way to 10v? Another video led me to believe that the sweet spot with these is between 3.6-4.1 per cell. If I set up my system to stay between 14.4v-16v, will they last longer? Does discharging all the way cause any harm to the batteries? My goal is to make them last as long as possible. I have a 7750w solar array and a 3600w turbine setup. I live in yucca valley where I have no shortage of generation. I currently have a bank of acid marine batteries that are about 5 years old and are wearing out. I simply just refrain from using much power after dark. Do you have any ideas on how long they will last if I start using them after dark? Should I stick with propane water heating and wood stove for inside the house?
Hola saludos mi nombre es Kevin tengo 15 módulos de baterias leaf y estan configurados en 3 grupos de 5 modulos y esos tres grupos en serie para tener 24v quiero saver cual es el voltaje del cargador solar que debe tener por que mi cargador makeskyblue carga a 29v hasta que las baterias ya estan cargada pero es con las baterias de ácido es lo mismo o tengo que vajar el voltaje gracias anticipadamente
The Maximum Voltage per module = 8.3 Volts, slightly lower is much better. Therefore, 3 modules connected in series is 24.9 Volts Max = 8.3 x 3 modules. Your 29 Volt charger is set way too high ...
Is it possable it direct charge my new bmw i3 ev direct from a solor panel without going through a A/C conversion and then back to DC through my household power?
Hi, can you please recommend a 48 battery pack for portable use with ham radio use - need about 20ah capacity atleast and 30amp discharge rate. about 1 hr run time would be good
10 @ 18650 cells connected in parallel is about 20 Amp-Hours. Then connect many of these parallel groups in series, to get 48 Volts. If you decide connect 4 @ 12 Volt 20 Amp-Hour batteries in series, first verify that the BMS can actually handle 48 volts. Then recharge the 12 volt packs as 4 separate 12V units. www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-Rechargeable-2500-7000-lifetime-Applications/dp/B07X523S96
Love your video. Subscribing. Question: TigerDirect pairs a 48V charger for their 7 cell packs. Is this enough to charge these which are 7.4 volts each? At nominal 3.7V each cell, 14 cells is 51.8V. Did you charge the 7-pack with a 48V charger? Will the BMS you installed on the pack handle a 56V charger? This would make more sense since 8.3v is max. rated capacity and 8V would put it under that.
parallel dont matter just have a way to hook all of them up via distribution block make sure all battery packs are close in voltage after that they will match up on their own I have had no problem doing this. If its a good BMS and you have one pack dead and one full charge then charging will the dead pack will start if its with in the current rating. This is one way i test the bms boards i purchase.
![PASULOL รามเกียรติ์ ตอนที่ 4 นนทกพบรัก [Ramakien Ep.4: Nonthok in love]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/tMUQgmZzf_A/mqdefault.jpg)
So much value in these old Leafs. You squeeze every mile you can out of the vehicle and then take it apart and it's a powerwall for your house, plus motors for other projects.
The $64,000 question is ... How long will these very used modules last? 1 Year? 2 Years?
@@vtorsi610 Cycle life is determined by temperature, and depth/speed of discharge. If you operate a Leaf module capacity bank within that sweet spot, they actually deliver incredible longevity. th-cam.com/video/hjJh4nJ3I44/w-d-xo.html Here is a Leaf with 210k miles on the original battery. Staggering longevity and performance when operated within ideal parameters
@@InnovativeSustainableSolutions Yes, we all know ... if you barely use the battery it will last much longer. But, your reply does not answer my question. Most Off-Grid homes, do actually discharge their battery bank, sometimes severely, on a daily basis. The seller has no idea what temperature these USED Nissan Leaf Modules where exposed to, when they were inside the vehicle. Or how many cycles, were already extracted. Or the min, average or max % DOD used by the car. The seller has no clue how many more CYCLES ( even say @ 50% DOD ) remain in the pack. How can the buyer make a wise decision when there are so few facts available? The only fact we have is ... the pack is already severely degraded down to 60% of its Original Capacity. 40% of the original capacity is gone forever!!! With only a 30 day warranty, this is a crap shoot and maybe a huge waste of time and money. At just 50% DOD daily how many more CYCLES can we get? I hear crickets! A Battleborn battery is guaranteed for 100% DOD every day for 10 YEARS !!! And then in 10 YEARS my Battleborn battery will be a USED pack ( for "FREE" ) that is equivalent to the above pack. So, why would I pay for a USED battery pack today, with essentially no warranty, when my new Battleborn will become a "free" USED pack in 10 YEARS? If this USED Nissan Leaf battery pack cannot be used at 100% DOD ( 38 Amp-Hours ) daily for at least 6 YEARS, or 50% DOD ( only 14 Amp-Hours ) daily for 12 YEARS, then a Battleborn is a CHEAPER purchase. This USED Leaf module ( with falsely advertised "100% Capacity" ratings via the ebay link ) is no bargain ...
@@vtorsi610 I know a little bit about off grid power, and heavy discharge cycles (I will cite my channel as my resume). I would respectfully postulate that you are overcomplicating the calculation by trying to guess what kind of abuse the Leaf Pack went through before you bought it. For the purposes of a DIY home powerwall it really doesn't matter. This is because the FUTURE degradation of the battery is what matters to the purchaser. And that is determined EXCLUSIVELY by the conditions we (the DIY home powerwall folks) expose the battery too.
To answer your question about how many cycles you can get out of a Leaf module (Gen1 chemistry: lithium-manganese-oxide with nickel oxide) the answer is around 5,000. Rougly 60% the cycle life of the LiFePo4 chemistry used in battleborn batteries. So Battleborn batteries are BETTER than Leaf modules, but are they cheaper in the long run?
I Leaf battery pack off Ebay will run you 1,000-1,100 dollars and have a capacity of 10-14kwh. We'll go with the underperformers and say 10kwh. Properly maintained (cooled, and professionally bms'd) you can get years of heavy daily use out of this pack, but honestly, I advise people to not even start until they can afford 2 or 3 packs. So we're out $3,500 and we have atleast a 30kwh powerwall, that can give us 3 years minimum (probably 5) of 90% DOD. Most of us off-griders are not rich, so I realize a $3,500 powerwall is a stretch. But compare that to a Battleborn bank. A 30kwh system would run you $30,000. Sure it would last twice as long, but it would cost you 9X as much. I'm not a huge Jehu fan, he's been pretty rude to me before when I was just getting started and asked a stupid question, and I think Battleborn's are good batteries, but for cost comparison in the long run, for large powerwalls: The Leaf packs blow them out of the water.
Thank You , i am the solar man of Lehigh Acres Fl and thanks to you i am now building
my Plug N Play Solar Boxes with Lithium Batteries. It will cost more but i believe that
it will be worth it when you figure 90% discharge rate.
Bob, do you do consulting?
All of the provided buss bars, covers, balance lead lugs and even the terminal bolts are original Nissan leaf pack parts. Compression plates including ones with welded nuts are built into the pack. Its a treasure box of parts.
I like how you shorted terminals and didn't cause a boom at 2:08
I have a 2011 LEAF with a 2016 battery, perhaps these and crashed cars are some of the sources. 😀
Warranty upgrade to 30kw seemed possible on pre 2018s
The hemp rope handles are killers! :D
I own a 2014 Nissan Leaf and it's great, wonderful to see these batteries used for other things
Thanks for testing these. I'm looking into building a powerwall and my source of 18650's has dried up and I only have about 500 useful cells out of the 1300 I got. I had been looking at these exact cells as an easy option since it's just a few bolts and not 1000's of solder/spot welds. I'm sad to hear that they could already be 50% degraded. Not worth the money at that level, if they were better, then I could see them being a cheaper alternative to Tesla modules.
awesome time lapse video at the end, with clear view of the stars in the sky. wow.
Those batteries are stacked with spacers in the leaf battery so when bolted with the all thread the pressure is spread across the top and bottom edges and not on the center of the cells. This allows for some pouch expansion and contraction with heat and avoids pressurizing the pouches by compressing the pack. Perhaps you can source the spacers with the cells? It would be safer.
Thanks for the video Jehu! May you make a video comparing this pack with a Tesla capacity and price? Thanks
Can you please make a review for that battery workstation, it look so cool.
Hey thanks for the video. Actually I want to ask you to check and correct those links in the video description as they are no longer working..
Shame cost is so high. Nice video fella.
If you were worried about efficiency would you use higher gauge wire so it doesn't get hot and use power to make heat?
If you wanted more than 40A continuos yes, but then again you’d run out of battery in 40 mins
If it gets hot/warm at all that is energy lost. A slight amount of heat can be huge in regards to Efficiency. If you are going to use these for a powerwall, for sure, use much bigger cables. Whatever size wire anyone tells you to use, double the size.
Appreciated. Also, totally off topic, but beautiful Telecaster.
Any updates for these links? I can't find any source for these kits!
Wondering if i can put a pack like this one on an ebike. Any suggestions?
Thanks a mil finally a video that tells it as it is
on the Leaf batteries. I am new to this so the tutorial helps! All aroundgreat.
if your wires are getting warm, you're doing something wrong a 40A fuse does not a 40A rating on the wire make
Where are the accessories shown available?
Specifically the orange plastic plate and bms?
Ty very helpful vid.
I did something similar, but instead of buying individual modules, I just bought a whole Leaf battery from a wrecker.. That cost me $3500 for the 48 modules in the battery pack, and I just reused the Leaf's hardware (plus some threaded rod) to make my own 48V packs. And I didn't mess with a BMS, because the Leaf cells are pretty robust, and after using them for nearly 4 years, they are doing fine. Maybe they don't have the pretty case, but that doesn't affect their function.
I'm in the process of building a 24 kwh 48 cell g2 solar battery, I was curious what you did for an invertor. How big off an invertor would you recommend for this large of storage? 10-12 KW? Any insite would be appreciated.
@@baileybonham1750 I am using a Xantrex XW6048 6kW inverter, and I used the full pack. You can program the charge and discharge voltages to make sure you never overcharge, or over discharge the batteries. The main use is to collect solar, and charge my EV. But it depends on what you are planning your system for.
@@EleTruk Hi !! I m using an inverter quite similar but with normal batteries !! How did you configure the inverter charger to charge lithium packs .... I would like to switch to lithium ... thanks !
@@carlosgorjao4037 I just set the voltage to make sure they never exceed the max or minumum of the batteries. The absolute max voltage on a Leaf battery is 8.4V, so if you never go above 8V you are good. Also on the minimum if you make sure the inverter never draws below the battery's minimum voltage which is 7.2V (absolute minimum is 5V, but that's damage the cell territory). I use a solar MPPT charger to charge the batteries, not the inverter. I just set the absorption/float voltages to the same max voltage, so with 6 Leaf batteries per pack (for a 48V system), the max voltage would be 48V, and the minimum would be 43.2V. Stay within those limits and the batteries should be fine, they have been for me. You won't get the max storage the cells are capable of, but they will last much longer if you don't push the extremes.
@@EleTruk If you do not have a BMS then you cannot set the individual CELL voltage, you can control ONLY the min/max PACK voltage. You are like the guy who runs every red light ... Hey man, not a problem for me ... Until one day, you have a fatal crash = BIG problem ...
You r the king of li-ion battery
The Li-ion King, indeed.
what charger/inverter you recomend for houses ?
Have you done any reserch on reconditiined fork lift batteries fi sollar systems
A much better question to cover is "HOW ARE THEY GETTING THESE BATTERIES?". When I tried to acquire them from the dealers, insurance companies, etc, none of them even wanted to talk to me. So how are they getting their hands on so many of them?
Contracts... or bribes?
You have to go into places. Phone calls don't work for real bulk buys unless you want to pay a lot of $$$. I resell laptop batteries by the 100s, just went into a couple recycling places and started talking with people, got some contacts and found some good places.
The answer is: he's famous...
I'd like to know about the expected life of these batteries, this is needed to judge economy.
Jehu - - - how many cycles can you get out of these? That's an important number for solar! (1 cycle = 1 day). I know they're listed as ~70% - but that's voltage, not remaining cycles!
(anyone??)
Right, but we need some way to relate cycles to the number "70% capacity" that sellers give these batteries.
@Dennis Jemison How long has your used Nissan Battery Bank actually been operating? How man CYCLES have you put on it? How much has the capacity degraded?
@Dennis Jemison These batteries have already LOST 30% of their capacity! And now you say we should not charge to 100% SOC, nor Discharge down to 100% DOD? Lets say we charge up to 80% SOC and down to 30% SOC. So, we now only get 50% of the already reduced 70% = only 35% of the original capacity - How is that a DEAL ???
@Dennis Jemison These are ( severely degraded - old style ) GEN 1 Packs, not the ( new style ) GEN 2 packs. Therefore, you did *NOT* buy what is being advertised in this video ... So, take your irrelevant BS and shove it, yourself ... I love it when idiots, like you, don't even watch the video ...
The first generation Nissan leaf batteries have a serious issue with battery degradation due to no significant cooling system in the car. My fear would be that that degradation percentage continues to increase over time making them not have a very long life after you have purchased them.
love you from India man!!
I saw your couple of videos
you have so much knowledge for 18650 battery or other batteries
Very interesting and pedagogic video ! I will go to build this !! What will be the recommended voltage and current to charge this 48 v pack ? What kind of charger … does it need to regulate the voltage and current ? Or the BMS does it ? Thanks and regards.
Let us know how many more cycles you get and your % DOD ( like 50% DOD ) because these GEN 1 batteries are already severely degraded !
Seems interesting to keep my Leaf pack with 97 modules instead of getting the ~ 1000 € refund from Nissan for my pack if i decide to replace it.
Anyway a great solution for recycling in a powerwall. Most people in Germany argue against EV's because they think that the production of the EV battery causes more pollution than the car will save. But they don't look Yt videos like yours :)
good luck not giving them a pack back. I tried to keep mine and was told no even if paying core charge in USA
@@gonesilent2814 interesting question. If Nissan solds a new one for about 6000 € and gives you 1000 for the old I assume the customer can decide what to make with the old one as long you are the owner of the battery that you bought with the car.
I am a Nissan tech and they will not even let me buy an old battery for the core charge. They make the customer sign a contract saying that they can't keep the old battery.
What is the Difference if i burn car fuel or Coal ?
Right no differense ecsept the *huge* energy losses from Generators to the Car battery and on the road + the lithium waste.
From what I can tell, TechDirect lists the manufactures specs on all their ebay auctions. Its kind of deceptive because they list the "New" specs but give you a run down battery. So if they're selling a 7kw battery pack, you might only get 4 kw of actual battery.
To get what you pay for, you have to know about the vehicle the batteries came out of. What year and how many miles on the vehicle.
I agree, I have purchased 42 Batteries from techdirect,(2 orders) and not a single one is greater than 43AH most are >40, discouraging when they advertise 66ah but in reality your 1/3 less I have since moved over to greentechybridbatteries (Ebay) purchased 45 batteries, all are closer to 45-52AH (they are also well balanced ) same general prices..
@ RGB VCoilro - Greenn Tech Auto does give some detail on their Ebay auctions -
"...
Nissan only replaced the batteries after the SOH level dropped from 12 bars to 8 bars or lower, so there is *NO* *CHANCE* they are going to be 70% capacity or more, the average we have been seeing is 65% capacity. The capacity within one pack can vary up to 3 Ah on average, sometimes up to 7Ah. We sort our modules based on the tested capacity and ship groups within 1Ah of each other, usually less. In large orders we might have a larger range.
This listing is for modules near the 40Ah test range. You could receive anywhere from 38Ah to 43Ah modules. Whichever group you receive will be within 1Ah of each other. "OFFERS" received will lean toward the lower capacity, "FULL PRICE" buyers will receive the highest capacity available.
Come with 1 month warranty.
..."
Is it necessary to use a bms when using two Nissan Leaf modules for a 12 volt application?
If you haven't already, maybe revisit these batteries? I have seen other videos where the used leaf battery packs have between 70-90 percent of their original capacy and the price is much lower.
Over in Australia, there was discussion of a class action suit because the first 3 years of Leaf has NO battery temperature control. As a result, instead of 70-80KM range, they are down to 20-30km range. Nissan's solution was "Buy a new $12,000 battery pack". That did not go over well. A 50-60% degradation in 3 years? UGH!! If you get those, or batteries from Souther California, Texas, etc, you will have a battery that is just about useless... Now if they are from the pacific northwest, and were driven by a grandmother to church once a week... well, Great!!! I'm looking at the lifepo4 types...
How would the buyer know if the used battery pack was exposed to excessive HEAT or not ?
great video, just one question if used without a BMS what will be the end result?
Hello friend, excellent video, where could I get cells for a 27kw battery of a kia soul ev from 2016?, I have some damaged cells
Do you think the jkbms with 2 Amp active balance would be a.good choice for a leaf battery. I have 24 cells set up in a 24 volt configuration and have been using it a year with no bms but people say it's dangerous and that I need a bms. I ordered a jkbms and I hope it works for what I need
I already have a wrecked leaf bit it would be great to have the containment system.
Hi there!
Thanks for your impressive video. Can you tell me a charger I can buy for 48 volt lithium ion batteries with 24khw? In other words, entire leaf batteries.
I love the design of the cell. But your right about the cost. How many cycles will the pack go through before you notice a performance degradation is noticed?
1 cycle. Doh. It is subjective, and whatever it is worth it, depends on a size, over size, how deep you discharge, exact price (plus BMS price and mounting), what was the capacity they were initial at, temperature, etc.
What type of Lithium Ion is this battery?
Poly?
Phosphate?
How much longer are they expected to last or cycles ?
Did I hear correctly? You got 280 watt-hours from ONE CELL of a two-cell pack (technically 2S-2P)? Rated for 500 watt-hours, a total of 560 watt-hours is 110% rated capacity.
I'm sure the provider of that pack would appreciate a correction in the video if warranted.
apologies, I am green in the subject. I would like the complete procedure. Is it a state of a health check? where I could find material to learn step by step, please.
Good Morning. I was thinking of a 12 Volt sys in a trailer that has solar power. What do you think of that and do think the cost over AGM batteries? Jack
0:00 Awesome TH-camr growl art!
@jehugarcia Tech Direct doesn't have any of this kit available in their ebay store. They have the cells, but dont seem to be selling the fancy metal brackets/box/bms.
All I ever get from them is the modules regardless of what is shown in the ads. Buss bars or brackets are never sent, they refund instead of offer the brackets you see on their Ebay pages.
CncObsession good to know. Thanks.
Hey jehu,
would you mind to ask to Community whats the batterysituation for used batterys/packs around the world like ?! I am especially interested in Germany and neihbouring countrys.
the questions could be like; Is it legal to sell battery without protection? Where can I find a good deal ? and so on.
A new videoseries called" Batterys around the world".
that woud be interesting to see.
I live in Germany and as far as i know it is legal to sell any type of battery as long as it is as parts and not as a finished product.
The problem woud be delivery in large amounts since the transport company will have to do some safety checks.
Sadly as far as i have searched over the last 2 years there are no reliable and cheap battery sources like in the us right now.
The area I live in in the United States, the local scrap yards refuse to sell them to me. Cash in hand but will not sell them. It's legal but someone else must be getting them.
@@kevinroberts781 Germany has one big Problem..... Useless Laws.
Im really good at repairing pretty much any electronic device.
My local junk jard has containers full of laptop's and really extensive flat screen televisions.
But it is forbidden by law to re purpose anything that people have brought there.
Even if someone woud throw a 3000$ PC in there you woud get sued for stealing if you take it out.
Actually guys, living in Finland, I get most of my cells from Germany. "Shop dot Lipopower dot de". They don't sell used cells, but they have high quality cells at a good price. It's also possible to get sales from the Netherlands or Czech Republic, but in those examples you almost never know what you're getting. I know there's a big market for repurposed cells, but new cells are pretty reasonably priced for a big project with long lifetime. If I'm just building small DIY projects, maybe the new cells are too expensive for some. If I were back home in the US I would probably consider some used batteries but not here in the EU
Nice video. I have a question. Can I build a 3S battery bank with Leaf modules? For an example let's say I have two leaf modules. Can I build a 3S2P bank with them?
If you only have two (2) Modules ( 4 Cells ) then no you cannot do 3S2P cells = 6 cells, because you only have 4 cells! You can do 2S2P cells.
I assume 10 modules are needed for 72v application?
I got a really great deal here in Japan for a whole second generation 24kWh Leaf pack (All 48 Modules) for around 1000USD with only about 20% degradation...Thats about 45-50USD per kWh! It seems like anywhere else in the world they are way overpriced.
I got one for 800 CAD. Click on my name to see vid :)
Zai, can you tell me what company you got them from in Japan? Thx
@@BahamianCanadian did you get the company in Japan?
What is a good, not too exspensive charger that's good for the Nissan leaf batteries? Any help greatly appreciated 😁
1:18 they been stealing those from bird scooters
Hi what s the different between Nissan leaf bat and Samsung bat ess
Which one the better
How many of these modules can make 300 volts ?
So... the way it looked in the video was as if this was a company product. The link Jehu is providing goes to an eBay sale to something that *looks nothing like* what he had in this video...
*Am I Missing Something?*
j35.us/Leaf-PowerPack
center post is for the BMS red to black is 2 series 2parrallel or 7.6 +-
Every post gets an electrical connection to the 14S BMS ...
I see where they have the pack of 7 batteries on the vendor ebay store. Do they also sell the kit you used along with the BMS and the metal box you used in your video? I don't see that in their store.
j35.us/Leaf-PowerPack
Hi there. I’m looking for the bms kit you used in this Nissan Leaf battery all links fail ? Can you help pls ?
Hi, could I make 2x24V from 7 cells?
Can you repair them or regenerate them?
Hey boss I'm really in need of a battery bank for my new home unfortunately it's a RV I feel like a failure what should I look for in my search I have played around with ev batteries before but I need a professional opinion on what's best
I built one of these packs and two of my Leaf cells have become swollen. should I throw them out immediately or will they still be usable like this?
Really should measure the voltage on the bus before you plug it in
wait wait wait... are half of the leafs in the US? because i think Norway has the rest then :P
I know you don't recommend capacitors but if you have appliances or tools with a high start up draw of current, they help, they can keep voltage at a constant rather then a several volt dip in power plus if your on edge, not much leeway with extra amps, they absorb that startup draw.
Just a thought. I know you are far more knowledgeable then I but I have seen on a buddies system with capacitor, hardly a drop in voltage where he was getting 3to almost 5 volt drop without capacitor. :)
2nd law of thermodynamics says it's inefficient
@Ronald, Yes, super-caps can help reduce the voltage drop during a high initial surge.
Can we still get the kit? Where can I get the orange top bus bar connector? Thank you!
What is the total cost for that pack? The links in the description don't seem to include the brackets and bms, just the cells. Also would you say that 2kwh is the theoretical max of new cells or measured capacity of 50-60% degraded cells?
j35.us/Leaf-PowerPack
Hey bud I was wondering what you would say is a good or maybe even the best all around charger for large/normal size batteries. I like the way this one in the video looks. I'm tired of these crappy hobby chargers off of eBay and Amazon. Thanks ahead of time. Peace.
Did you only check half the cell? Need to check from negative to center post also. Then add the 2 tests together. Doubling the ah rating. Or if your charger will do it, check at 7.2 volt charge/discharge.
Unnecessary
Yep, your right, they are either degraded by half or overrated by double. :)
Hey Jehu, Your Videos are only getting better and better!!!Love this for sure!!!
Did you ever manage to finish your range rover project for your buddy?
no he lost interest
I don't get why people get excited by buying random used batteries. You have no idea what people did to them let alone how many cycles are likely to be left. Spend the extra bit and get new cells and less worry.
That way of thinking is what's wrong with America and other countries. Sure you could buy new, but not all used are in bad shape.
@@Gskill2011 It looks like they charged too much for batteries that were so degraded. With 56% of juice left in them they are not good for this application. Probably 7-8 years old first generation batteries.
Compare with Tesla batteries, those will lose 10-12% in the first two years and then the process slows to 1-2% a year.
Purchasing used or expired batteries is hit and miss and people are understandably cautious.
@@jcrnda Agreed. For now most of these batteries are over priced potential junk.
@@jcrnda right but when building a power wall mass and size is less of a problem compared to EV applications.
@@Gskill2011 Buying used batteries is cool if you don't have to depend on them....
Could you run a custom built e -scooter?And if you could I was thinking this 7 batteries would be perfect I think let me know maybe we can build it together
That's because those are generation 1 modules. They had a considerably smaller capacity to start with.
I thought the GEN 1 Modules were rated at 66 Amp-Hours? But in the video, Jehu only got *38.5* Ah, which means 40% of this modules capacity is already gone, forever ...
Podrias hacer los videos tambien en español ? por favor.
Thanks for the video. I just purchased a complete package with 48 modules for my solar backup. My inverter can run from 10-16v systems. Do you recommend that I refrain from discharging all the way to 10v? Another video led me to believe that the sweet spot with these is between 3.6-4.1 per cell. If I set up my system to stay between 14.4v-16v, will they last longer? Does discharging all the way cause any harm to the batteries? My goal is to make them last as long as possible. I have a 7750w solar array and a 3600w turbine setup. I live in yucca valley where I have no shortage of generation. I currently have a bank of acid marine batteries that are about 5 years old and are wearing out. I simply just refrain from using much power after dark. Do you have any ideas on how long they will last if I start using them after dark? Should I stick with propane water heating and wood stove for inside the house?
How is your mind turbine working, also which model is it?
Is case big enough to allow aluminum cooling plates in between cells?
Almost anything that wasn't Nissan's design would be an improvement
@Donald - Why would YOU need cooling plates ?
I have been trying to fins a 12s lipo battery checker, only looking to read the voltage on each cell
Hola saludos mi nombre es Kevin tengo 15 módulos de baterias leaf y estan configurados en 3 grupos de 5 modulos y esos tres grupos en serie para tener 24v quiero saver cual es el voltaje del cargador solar que debe tener por que mi cargador makeskyblue carga a 29v hasta que las baterias ya estan cargada pero es con las baterias de ácido es lo mismo o tengo que vajar el voltaje gracias anticipadamente
The Maximum Voltage per module = 8.3 Volts, slightly lower is much better. Therefore, 3 modules connected in series is 24.9 Volts Max = 8.3 x 3 modules. Your 29 Volt charger is set way too high ...
JEHU... learning so much from you!!! Thank you very much for your content sir!
Could do a video on 24v solar home system using electric car lithium batteries
Is it possable it direct charge my new bmw i3 ev direct from a solor panel without going through a A/C conversion and then back to DC through my household power?
your car is 400Vdc most likely so you will need some kind of conversion unless you have a matching solar system volatge
You can buy a used leaf for $2500, why not use the complete pack as a home storage unit?
Hi Jehu, I've gone to the kit.com site you refer here and I;ve put in 10kWh lion battery pack but get (0) results - what am I doing wrong here?
Which one you looking for?
Hi, can you please recommend a 48 battery pack for portable use with ham radio use - need about 20ah capacity atleast and 30amp discharge rate. about 1 hr run time would be good
10 @ 18650 cells connected in parallel is about 20 Amp-Hours. Then connect many of these parallel groups in series, to get 48 Volts. If you decide connect 4 @ 12 Volt 20 Amp-Hour batteries in series, first verify that the BMS can actually handle 48 volts. Then recharge the 12 volt packs as 4 separate 12V units.
www.amazon.com/ExpertPower-Rechargeable-2500-7000-lifetime-Applications/dp/B07X523S96
I need this battery how much price
Jehu--- @ 3:10, you say you are putting such-and-such "in the Tesla battery"... I do assume you mean the Leaf battery?
Tesla battery under the workbench that he is charging with Leaf cells at 5 Amps
Is this BMS made specially for Lithium Manganese batteries like the Leaf-batteries are. Or does any BMS with 14s work?
Love your video.
Subscribing.
Question: TigerDirect pairs a 48V charger for their 7 cell packs. Is this enough to charge these which are 7.4 volts each? At nominal 3.7V each cell, 14 cells is 51.8V. Did you charge the 7-pack with a 48V charger? Will the BMS you installed on the pack handle a 56V charger? This would make more sense since 8.3v is max. rated capacity and 8V would put it under that.
Do you have the specs on the CHARGER ?
Hmm... So what if I subscribed and hit the bell button then what? Just kidding love your stuff! New Subscriber...
Good video Jehu, thanks for sharing
Love your videos.
@@sbollmeyer thanks Steve :)
@@OH8STN , you're welcome.
All new to me. How many amp hours would that be? You might of said it.
He did not say exactly. The mfg claims 66 but at 4:40 he says he measured 38 which would be really low.
What would be a good AC power supply for this BMS to charge this project?
How would you parallel connect 2 of these batteries with each having their own BMS?
Glenn Pearson yes
parallel dont matter just have a way to hook all of them up via distribution block make sure all battery packs are close in voltage after that they will match up on their own I have had no problem doing this. If its a good BMS and you have one pack dead and one full charge then charging will the dead pack will start if its with in the current rating. This is one way i test the bms boards i purchase.
@@battery_solar_ev Slightly badly written
@@battery_solar_ev ... I do not understand this please explain in different sentences
for all of us total newbs in EV can you show the wiring slower for the leaf
do you still have those uni solar flexible solar panels? or can you get me a good deal on a few for my camper. i may need to live in it soon.
Would these be good to put on an RV/skoolie? Looking to get some major power on my rig.
No, get the newer GEN 2's ...
Is there a new link for the kit?
Hi, thanks for video. Could you pkease give a contact info on where I can buy leaf modules. Thanks.
j35.us/Leaf-PowerPack