James again does an amazing job of explaining how the body works on flats and clipless. I totally agree that the cycling industry has been giving incorrect information to riders and largely ignoring the science and studies that indicate riding on the ball if the foot is perhaps not the best foot position. Also pulling up on the pedals as clipless pedals riders are told they should do, is actually not going to make then more powerful. Having ridden and raced in clipless for more than 20 years, I have a Catalyst pedal converted rider and only ride these pedals with Fivetens. Thanks to James for his dedication to the flat pedal...
Like most people, I started on flats then moved to clips thinking I need to make the switch to improve my cycling. I was at least advised to try to put my SPD as far back as I could so it wasn't under the ball of my foot. I've switched back to flats this season and don't plan on going back to clips.
Thank you for this video, I was looking into pedals for my new bike and my friend kept telling me why clipless is the only way to go. But I didn't like the idea of needing a specific pair of shoes for them, in any case this video was the final one I needed to watch and I just went ahead and ordered a pair within this last hour.
I've been riding since '96. About a year later, I started riding Time ATAC pedals because I could never get used to SPD. I'm 47 and I would love to learn the proper way to bunnyhop and manual so I'm thinking of getting a dirt jumper. People seem to say flats are the deal for that. I currently ride anything from Fruita to Ocala to XC trails clipped in. After all these years, I can honestly say I don't remember the last time I was trapped in a pedal. What makes me consider flats is that it stops any unconsiciuos cheating I'm doing now that might hold back my bunnyhop. What makes me reluctant to go flats is that with my busy schedule I don't want to too much time relearning. Tough decision! I do like the concept on these so they may be a player for my dirtjump bike if I go flats. Long story short - another good discussion Gene!
Thanks for the props! So my Iron Horse Sinister that I'm rebuilding (there's a play list on this build) is going to be my dirt jumper / manual bike. For that bike I think I'll also get a set of these pedals. Totally for jumping so I have that bigger and safer platform to land on.
I'm flats all the way. Tried Clipless for years before I finally just gave up. Too many crashes that I could attribute directly to the pedals. And then finally on my first visit to Moab I realized that I was just plainly endangering my life for no good reason, and it was taking away from the enjoyment of riding. I have never looked back. When it comes to MTB skills, I now see that Clipless pedals lead to bad habits and bad technique. Also bad for some beginners as they get extra nervous in exposed and technical sections. I'll take some scratches on my shin any day over a dislocated shoulder or broken arm/wrist. I might just try those Catalyst pedals next
Agreed, I run into very few situations that I feel Clipless would have benefited me. I like being able to quickly dab a foot and get back on the pedals in tight corners. Also I feel I like I am able to push my self just a little bit further before having to to dismount of on steep techy terrain since I know I can get my foot down faster.
I know this sounds so lame but I actually listened to this on my way into NY this morning HAHAHA! It's actually pretty damn entertaining and would make a great podcast (foreshadowing something maybe?).
Seems like the optimal solution would be a clip-less pedal that is centered under the arch of your foot. One of the 'pros' to clip-less pedals is that the shoe itself becomes the platform you are pedaling on. This is a bit more pronounced in road cycling with ultra-stiff carbon -soled shoes. Another drawback I would guess is that you don't get the benefit of using your calves to reduce shock and vibration when going over a slew of roots or rocks or when hitting jumps or drops. If you've got a FS rig you're set, but with a hard-tail I'd be curious to know if anyone noticed a difference. This seems like a good idea though, and I'm sure there is no such thing as a perfect pedal.
I agree with your approach regarding the road bike. Looking at that pedal and shoe combo, it does make sense. As for the calf sucking up the bumps, I might argue that we all need a better riding stance so that our legs and hips take the bumps. Big or small bumps, our legs have more mass to take the shots and spread out the work then just the calf. Your thoughts?
I guess I was just thinking of his comparison between squatting weight and pedaling. If I were to jump from, say, 3 feet up to the ground while holding a barbell across my shoulders (as one does while squatting) I'm sure as ****, not aiming for a heels first landing. While I want that weight and my resistance to it to drive down and through my heels for power, I also want my calves to ease me into that endeavor. I guess I see cycling as a total leg effort, and perhaps good cyclists have refined that effort. I have a hard time buying that the calf is worthless beyond foot stabilization. Look, I haven't read or done any research on this, but I have played sports my entire life and a toe first landing seems natural to me - but I could be doing it wrong. Also, wouldn't it make sense given this idea of power transfer to remove crank rotation completely and power the bike through a piston-style vertical motion? WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY lol
I understand where the idea for the pedal is coming from as I tore my ankle early in the year and the only way I could ride was with the arch of my foot over the axle. I do hear where Jonathan S is saying as even though pedalling with the axle under your arch works great I couldn't wait to move my foot further back to get the axle back under the ball. I needed the spring from ankle & calf for bunny hops, popping off jumps and also to 'take up the slack' keeping contact with the pedals on root & rock sections. You also have a degree of sensitivity through the ball of your foot you do not get through the arch. This is easy to see by trying to operate the pedals of you car with the arch rather than the ball of your foot. Are you better running shorter cranks with this design? The axle being further back suggests turning smaller circles might be beneficial....
Any plans on more pins on the pedals? I read few reviews and they all say they wish for more grip & more pins? I am interested in these pedals, every thing said makes sense,I actually wished some one made a pedal like this.but never seen it until I found the catalyst pedal on pinkbike. I am currently using Straitline Defacto pedals with al the pins. But I definitely feel that the platform is too short. and of course I use FiveTen Freerider.
The flexing in my feet was definitely noticeable on my pedals, So I think these will be an improvement in pedalling, my pedals grip well with my Fivetens, but having so small pedals feel wrong, even though I have my feet in the middle of the pedal.
I think there is a time and place for both. XC, I am strictly clipless. Being able to utilize different muscles during the pedal stroke can be a lifesaver when your trying to push 110% during a race. With flats your stuck with the downstroke. You might be able to get a little out of the top and bottom, but you risk slipping off the pedal. Clipless allows you to move to a full upstroke which will help get that burn out of your quads. I used flats for my DH days and see their place in super technical or trials applications as well as riding in the snow. The last thing is weight. Everyone is trying to cut back in weight. Fox hollowed out the lowers on the XC shock to save weight. I don't foresee a huge flat to start showing up in XC anytime in the foreseeable future. This comes from a weight weenie's point of view.
I'm going to have to get these pedals on the scale because now you have me wondering. Just for the hell of it, what would be a good weight for you to consider a pedal? I also think that weight and and feature/function get tossed back and forth. Example, Tony and I just finished a BikeChat with Adam from Cush Core (will have that video up soon). The Cush Core does add some weight but the feature / function of the product seems to be out shining that weight cost. I think you might like the Cush Core Shane.
Whoa! Dude needs to work on his elevator pitch. I get that these are apparently an innovation but it's still just a pedal. If you can't articulate the benefits in a couple minutes at the most, you need to rethink your approach. One+ hours 😫😫 ? I ejected at 15 minutes. RGMTB-it's your channel. Unless you're receiving infomercial $$$, move the guy along ...
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 89 | คู่เอก "ยอดไอคิว vs คิริลล์"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Z3vYkHJ_5Ig/mqdefault.jpg)
James again does an amazing job of explaining how the body works on flats and clipless.
I totally agree that the cycling industry has been giving incorrect information to riders and largely ignoring the science and studies that indicate riding on the ball if the foot is perhaps not the best foot position. Also pulling up on the pedals as clipless pedals riders are told they should do, is actually not going to make then more powerful.
Having ridden and raced in clipless for more than 20 years, I have a Catalyst pedal converted rider and only ride these pedals with Fivetens.
Thanks to James for his dedication to the flat pedal...
Thanks so much for watching! James really put together a great pedal!
Like most people, I started on flats then moved to clips thinking I need to make the switch to improve my cycling. I was at least advised to try to put my SPD as far back as I could so it wasn't under the ball of my foot. I've switched back to flats this season and don't plan on going back to clips.
At least you tried both and made the choice for what works for you man. That's the most important thing.
I'm working through the Ryan Leach lessons now. My goal is to be able to bunny hop and manual by the end of summer.
Thank you for this video, I was looking into pedals for my new bike and my friend kept telling me why clipless is the only way to go. But I didn't like the idea of needing a specific pair of shoes for them, in any case this video was the final one I needed to watch and I just went ahead and ordered a pair within this last hour.
Really glad this video was able to help you make your choice! Thank you for watching and commenting ;-)
I've been riding since '96. About a year later, I started riding Time ATAC pedals because I could never get used to SPD. I'm 47 and I would love to learn the proper way to bunnyhop and manual so I'm thinking of getting a dirt jumper. People seem to say flats are the deal for that. I currently ride anything from Fruita to Ocala to XC trails clipped in. After all these years, I can honestly say I don't remember the last time I was trapped in a pedal. What makes me consider flats is that it stops any unconsiciuos cheating I'm doing now that might hold back my bunnyhop. What makes me reluctant to go flats is that with my busy schedule I don't want to too much time relearning. Tough decision! I do like the concept on these so they may be a player for my dirtjump bike if I go flats. Long story short - another good discussion Gene!
Thanks for the props! So my Iron Horse Sinister that I'm rebuilding (there's a play list on this build) is going to be my dirt jumper / manual bike. For that bike I think I'll also get a set of these pedals. Totally for jumping so I have that bigger and safer platform to land on.
This makes sense I can feel more direct power to the pedal when not using the ball of the foot, will order a pair.
I'm flats all the way. Tried Clipless for years before I finally just gave up. Too many crashes that I could attribute directly to the pedals. And then finally on my first visit to Moab I realized that I was just plainly endangering my life for no good reason, and it was taking away from the enjoyment of riding. I have never looked back.
When it comes to MTB skills, I now see that Clipless pedals lead to bad habits and bad technique. Also bad for some beginners as they get extra nervous in exposed and technical sections. I'll take some scratches on my shin any day over a dislocated shoulder or broken arm/wrist.
I might just try those Catalyst pedals next
Agreed, I run into very few situations that I feel Clipless would have benefited me. I like being able to quickly dab a foot and get back on the pedals in tight corners. Also I feel I like I am able to push my self just a little bit further before having to to dismount of on steep techy terrain since I know I can get my foot down faster.
I did not even think of that, but I agree about pushing yourself further. I felt like I needed to keep some energy in reserve when clipped in.
I'm very happy with this Bruce. You will feel the difference in the rough stuff. That's where I noticed it first.
I like this guy!!! Can't wait to watch more of this this weekend this could be a perfect stogi video!
I know this sounds so lame but I actually listened to this on my way into NY this morning HAHAHA! It's actually pretty damn entertaining and would make a great podcast (foreshadowing something maybe?).
Dude I'm on episode 1
Great stuff!, keep things like this coming! Live-Life-Loud!!
Thank you Ryan. I plan to put together some more live shows and want to pull in some of my subscribers. You're on my hot list buddy!!
Regular Guy Mountain Biking sounds good Buddy
I ordered 2 more pairs, finally remembered to use the affiliate link:-) ordered 2 sets of rebuild kits just in case.
Johannes Nilsen Sweet man! I'm going to have to grab another set as well for my new bike I plan to get.
Missed the live show. We had lacrosse games last night.
I could feel you with us in spirit ;-) Great show man. Hope you enjoy the recording.
Hey from new Zealand
Woot! Going to need to get you on the show my friend!
Thanks Gene, Sounds like a bit of fun! :)
Seems like the optimal solution would be a clip-less pedal that is centered under the arch of your foot. One of the 'pros' to clip-less pedals is that the shoe itself becomes the platform you are pedaling on. This is a bit more pronounced in road cycling with ultra-stiff carbon -soled shoes. Another drawback I would guess is that you don't get the benefit of using your calves to reduce shock and vibration when going over a slew of roots or rocks or when hitting jumps or drops. If you've got a FS rig you're set, but with a hard-tail I'd be curious to know if anyone noticed a difference. This seems like a good idea though, and I'm sure there is no such thing as a perfect pedal.
I agree with your approach regarding the road bike. Looking at that pedal and shoe combo, it does make sense. As for the calf sucking up the bumps, I might argue that we all need a better riding stance so that our legs and hips take the bumps. Big or small bumps, our legs have more mass to take the shots and spread out the work then just the calf. Your thoughts?
I guess I was just thinking of his comparison between squatting weight and pedaling. If I were to jump from, say, 3 feet up to the ground while holding a barbell across my shoulders (as one does while squatting) I'm sure as ****, not aiming for a heels first landing. While I want that weight and my resistance to it to drive down and through my heels for power, I also want my calves to ease me into that endeavor. I guess I see cycling as a total leg effort, and perhaps good cyclists have refined that effort. I have a hard time buying that the calf is worthless beyond foot stabilization.
Look, I haven't read or done any research on this, but I have played sports my entire life and a toe first landing seems natural to me - but I could be doing it wrong. Also, wouldn't it make sense given this idea of power transfer to remove crank rotation completely and power the bike through a piston-style vertical motion? WE HAVE THE TECHNOLOGY lol
You make a very good point. Would you mind checking out this video and giving me your feedback? th-cam.com/video/vLbmbpTLd78/w-d-xo.html
I understand where the idea for the pedal is coming from as I tore my ankle early in the year and the only way I could ride was with the arch of my foot over the axle.
I do hear where Jonathan S is saying as even though pedalling with the axle under your arch works great I couldn't wait to move my foot further back to get the axle back under the ball. I needed the spring from ankle & calf for bunny hops, popping off jumps and also to 'take up the slack' keeping contact with the pedals on root & rock sections.
You also have a degree of sensitivity through the ball of your foot you do not get through the arch. This is easy to see by trying to operate the pedals of you car with the arch rather than the ball of your foot.
Are you better running shorter cranks with this design? The axle being further back suggests turning smaller circles might be beneficial....
Any plans on more pins on the pedals? I read few reviews and they all say they wish for more grip & more pins?
I am interested in these pedals, every thing said makes sense,I actually wished some one made a pedal like this.but never seen it until I found the catalyst pedal on pinkbike. I am currently using Straitline Defacto pedals with al the pins. But I definitely feel that the platform is too short. and of course I use FiveTen Freerider.
I'll send this to James. Very good feed back.
I have not tried these Yet, But These pedals are definitely something I should try.
The flexing in my feet was definitely noticeable on my pedals, So I think these will be an improvement in pedalling, my pedals grip well with my Fivetens, but having so small pedals feel wrong, even though I have my feet in the middle of the pedal.
Interesting, just watched and thanks for the link. He makes some good points.
I think these pedals will offer the support you are looking for. Another idea is to replace the stock pegs with longer ones?
Got 19 min in though
I think there is a time and place for both. XC, I am strictly clipless. Being able to utilize different muscles during the pedal stroke can be a lifesaver when your trying to push 110% during a race. With flats your stuck with the downstroke. You might be able to get a little out of the top and bottom, but you risk slipping off the pedal. Clipless allows you to move to a full upstroke which will help get that burn out of your quads.
I used flats for my DH days and see their place in super technical or trials applications as well as riding in the snow.
The last thing is weight. Everyone is trying to cut back in weight. Fox hollowed out the lowers on the XC shock to save weight. I don't foresee a huge flat to start showing up in XC anytime in the foreseeable future.
This comes from a weight weenie's point of view.
I'm going to have to get these pedals on the scale because now you have me wondering. Just for the hell of it, what would be a good weight for you to consider a pedal? I also think that weight and and feature/function get tossed back and forth. Example, Tony and I just finished a BikeChat with Adam from Cush Core (will have that video up soon). The Cush Core does add some weight but the feature / function of the product seems to be out shining that weight cost. I think you might like the Cush Core Shane.
Whoa! Dude needs to work on his elevator pitch. I get that these are apparently an innovation but it's still just a pedal. If you can't articulate the benefits in a couple minutes at the most, you need to rethink your approach. One+ hours 😫😫 ? I ejected at 15 minutes.
RGMTB-it's your channel. Unless you're receiving infomercial $$$, move the guy along ...