The biggest problems with the NBA "rings" argument
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Michael Jordan says there's just something about 5 that's better than 3. This opens the door for countless arguments regarding championship rings
So were just gonna ignore the fact that Michael Jordan thinks he could beat the GOAT Lavar Ball 1on 1
Right? Jordan wouldn't stand a chance. That's why they never went 1 on 1, MJ is too scared of Lavar Ball
Scalabrine is the real GOAT
Cough cough alex caruso cough
Bah, everybody knows that Len Bias is the REAL GOAT.
Juwanna Man???
I feel like finals MVP makes more sense than rings. The whole team gets a ring (even bad players) but only one person gets the finals MVP.
ViolentVz but that would be saying Andre iguodala is better than steph curry
Lit Ass Boobs But nobody is comparing those two.
+Donjamon7 I agree that was hands down his best finals. the entire 2015 warriors playoff run was ridiculous. I remember games 4-5 of that series he was cooking everyone
Is Iguodala better than Pipen just because he has more FMVPs?
So iggy is better than Mj or Durant is better than Kobe ?
Jordan has ALWAYS taken shots at LeBron throughout his career but has always shown much respect to Kobe.
My theory is that MJ sees Kobe as a little brother and never a threat to his legacy.
MJ is a VERY competitive person as we all know and if there was anyone, ever, to challenge his title as the G.O.A.T. I'm sure he'd take every opportunity to shun the said threat.
I honestly think his "paranoia" started when he first watched LBJ play in High School, it was then when he got his first look at what might be the only man to ever have a serious chance at dethroning him..
To Release is To Resolve
Yeah good one 👍🏾
Mark Ray P Jordan never really liked the goat title. He said its disrespectful to the players that he hasnt played against like bill, j.west, big o, wilt. Etc. He was competitive with his peers and thats about it.
Mark Ray P that's what I'm saying.
I can see where you're coming from but Jordan actually played against Kobe and saw his talents on the court. Yes, Jordan was on the outs and far from his prime but Kobe dropped 55 on Jordan as a retirement gift. Jordan also provided the blueprint for defending LeBron which Kobe used successfully in the 2013 All Star Game. With all that said though, MJ isn't the only legend to find fault in LeBron though. Also, many of the players in the league often choose Kobe over LeBron. It's many of the millenials (e.g. Lonzo Ball) who choose LeBron over Kobe. Both are great in their own right.
Mark Ray P dude lbj is a stronger faster mj. Guy is 50 pounds heavier and taller. Lbj just doesn't have a clutch 3 like mj or kobe
Using this logic,is bill Russell the GOAT
@Kenneth Erickson listen in that time he was still beating the best of the best....but no he's not the goat
@Sam Lim You tell that dumbass
You probably think Le3-6 is the goat
Zeb D yet you’re the one who brings him up 🤷🏽♂️😂
Did you not watch the video?
There's just something about 7 that's better than 6...
11 is better than 7. Lol
Eshaan K #robhorry
Funny things is, Horry might be the best performer ever in clutch moments
try 11
Bill played in the sixties against nothing but white guys (who let's be real only about 2/100 white boys good) so this accomplishments that great
MJ won 6 as the undisputed best player on his team (6 Finals MVPs, zero of which could have arguably gone to a teammate). 2nd place in Finals MVPs? Half of that, 3. A few players have that many
Ethiopian Pride Bill Russell end of your argument
1-9
LeBron James Dom2k already destroyed your argument
FOR ME, all around > scoring. So I rather have LeBron/Magic type of guy running my offense than a Kobe/MJ. That's the way I like to play/watch the game, but you can't go wrong in this decision, its a win-win.
Are you serious? MJ and Kobe are more than just scoring. They're both top defenders, specifically Jordan, and Jordan averaged all those points plus 6 rebounds and 5 assists over his career. More than just scoring. And Kobe averaged 5 and 5 plus the scoring. And I'm not taking away from Magic and LBJ, but that's disrespectful to Jordan and Kobe.
Jordan and Kobe had better defense than Magic and Lebron though...what are you getting at...
True. But you forget that Magic wasn't an elite defenders whereas Kobe and MJ have more All--Defense team selections than LeBron and Magic. MJ also won a Defensive Player of the Year in 1988, along with the MVP. MJ was also averaging 35ppg, 8 assists and 8 rebounds before Phil Jackson came, so those are good all round numbers and was still around 7 rebounds and 6 assists after he came.
The thing is MJ and Kobe played defense. Both sides of the court were covered especially in MJ's case, a DPOY player with 9X all defensive first team player who lead the league in steals 3X, 3rd all time in steals and a back-to-back seasons with at least 200 stl/ 100blcks. Find me a season where LBJ have 100 blocks or 200 steals.
MJ was an elite defender and a ruthless competitor. LBJ ain't one.
Give MJ LBJ's role, point guard, outside of the triangle offense like what those 23 games let's see what his numbers would be... Bdw, he averaged a triple double in those games. In the first 11 games he had 10 triple doubles and 7 of those were consecutive games (tied with Westbrook)...
I don't think the people replying to you know what all around mean
33.0 PPG, 10.9 RPG and 7.4 APG.Those are Lebron's stats when ever facing elimination in the playoffs in his career. 22.3 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 3.7 APG. Those are Kobe's stats when ever facing elimination in the the playoffs in his career. But apparently Lebron has a weak mentality and has no killer instinct and Kobe is one of the most clutch players of all time. Nevermind the fact that Lebron shoots 41% in the clutch in the playoffs and Kobe shoots 38% in the clutch in the playoffs awhile Lebron has played against far better defences then Kobe and even taking more shots.Lebron has more playoff gamewinning buzzer beaters than Kobe whereas Kobe has just 1 and Lebron has 3 (tied most all time). For shots to tie or take the lead in the last minute of a playoff game Kobe shoots 10-37(27%) whereas Lebron shoots 15-35(42.9%). For shots to tie or take the lead in the last 10 seconds of a playoffs game Kobe shoots 4-18(22%) whereas Lebron shoots 7-19(36.8). The perception that Lebron is choker and disappears in important games/important moments of games needs to be erased because it's simply not true. I'm not trying to give Kobe the image of a choker here but you cannot say Kobe>Lebron because of killer instinct and clutchness because Lebron has proved to have both of those intangibles on as many occasions if not more than Kobe. Regardless though both are all time greats but imo Lebron is better player.
Corey Dacres-Lebrun It's a simple math man, count less buzzer beater + low fg% = most missed shot in history.
Kobe has had help and so have all the all time greats...team sports isn't an individual thing....you can't score even half your teams points so putting it all on 1 guy is dumb...mist okay don't ever average 1/4 let alone 1/3 their teams points totals ...so ...that always makes me laugh...
@corey dacres-lebrun
Great comment. Notice how this guy actually looked up OBJECTIVE stats and didn't base his arguments off of lazy arguments like "rings" and was smart enough to comprehend the analytics of the game. this is how sports fans should measure players. Ring counting is for judging the best TEAM, not the best player.
BLOOD RED BLAZE incorrect.
Travis Blankenship it’s only incorrect h en judging players who had the most impact on rings like lebron and jordan
If rings define who's the best than bill russel is the goat with 11 rings
Ronah - Bill russell has an argument for being goat tho, not just for rings
something tells me you didnt watch the entire video
The video doesn't put up a good argument for Bill Russell. He's done mad research on Kareem Abdul Jabbar but neglected Bill Russell. So he's not missing anything. There's more to Bill Russell than the rings.
Jeremy Santos Boston Celtics in the 1960s barely had any competition and thus there weren’t that many nba teams back then
@Jeremy Santos winning titles in a league with ONLY 8 teams while ur team was loaded with all the talent aint a real big accomplishment, thats why i laugh when people bring up Russell's rings like he had any REAL competition, his rings just as fraudulent as 🐍kd's🐍
This has been an argument that has annoyed me for a long time, and you nailed the explanation brilliantly! Looked at it from both sides, cut through the BS and summed it up perfectly! Love your vids bro, keep em comin!
Man I really wished he had picked a side, I feel like I was like at a cliffhanger..
I choose robert horry over mj cause 7 is better than 6
Ricardo Berumen He said a comment like this would be posted before watching the whole video.
Its a joke lol.
+Saimul Hossain so meaning the ring argument is only valid on lebron vs kobe?
Keywan Bernard dom 2k is treating that as a general statement even though when people say that they know that its a bad comparison and its to spread light on MJ's bad logic
Dude, don't think like MJ. Don't be like him. Get away from him.
In The NFL we don't care about champions. We only care about SuperBowls when the NFL and AFL merged in 69. In the NFL anything before 69 is not taken that seriously. Compared to Merger era. The NBA and ABA merged in 76 so In my opinion I believe champions before 76 shouldn't be taken as an amazing achievement compared to those after 76. Both each mergers the the two league's were smaller and only had like 8-12 team's no really so they were both amateurish before their mergers.
Nah
Odell Beckham Jr. #Odeezy #13Hunnit #BreakinRecords Buuut.... Wilt and Bill revolutionized the game even through there was only 8 teams and somewhat weak competition, Still the 60s are an Important era of basketball and it was the beginning of what was to come in the NBA's future.
Exactly but them laker n Celtics fans gonna cry also it shouldn't count since if we count rings since existence the browns got 4 rings
King madoX well, Wilt and Bill played against some pretty good centers
Except for Jim Brown
Just think about it you are comparing a 32 year old to a retired Kobe Bryant. Lebron still has 7-8 years to go :)
Finally someone said it
less than that
No playoffs to go tho
Not so Weeaboo he will be in the playoffs this year
@@alexs4849 won the championship btw
If you think about it even if rings do matter so much, Kobe wasnt even the best player on 3 out of his 5 championships,
So
Kobe was the main man on 2 championship teams
While LeBron was the main man on 3 championship teams
Adam W nice thought
Actually 2002 and 2003 are closer than you think but 2001 Shaq was averaging 35 and 2002 Kobe was averaging 29 in the playoffs which matters more than what Shaq did in the 2000-2001 season
Kobe in 01 and 02 wasn't carried. Shaq got finals MVP 3 times w Kobe on his team and the award coulda gone both ways. W lebron, Wade prob shoulda got the MVP vs OKC and Kyrie had a case for it as well in 15 (I think it was 15 or 16) besides finals MVP much like reg season MVP can some times be a popularity contest. I bet if Kobe was more media friendly, especially in his early years, he woulda got 1 whole playing w Shaq. Look at the numbers w the exception of the Pacers series Kobe n Shaq had numbers that were very capable w one another
Would you rather fight 100 bee sized bears that can fly, or a bear sized bee?
100 bee sized bears easily, I wouldn't go anywhere near a bee that big 😂😂
Mason Fan they can fly
Mason Fan your in a thunderdome. No escape until someone is dead.
Mason Fan you're no fun
Mason Fan you can kill the bee sized bears
The 60's was weak and anyone could dominate like they did argument is wrong. Michael couldn't have won really any runs depending on what team he was on then. The game was played so differently back then and the game isn't gonna change because 1 players shows up wth a completely different play style. Also anyone who says the 60's was weak, doesn't know a lot about the 60's. I think the most they ever had was 9 team then. And some stupid people say "only Russell and Wilt were good" that's completely false. There were so many great players back then. Wilt Russell Jerry Lucas Jerry West Gail Goodrich Elgin Baylor San Jones Bob Cousy KC Jones John Havlicek Lenny Wilkins Zelma Beaty Willis Reed Earl the pearl Monroe Walt Frazier Rudy Larruso Walt Bellamy Bill Bradley Oscar Robertson Dave Debbuschere Nate Thurmond and probably many more that I'm forgetting. You name Someone like that and people will say "everyone sucked back then, they benefitted from a weak era" well did it ever occur that all of those all time greats or just greats were spread out through 8 teams! That means there were more good or great players then bad players, which means the talent pool was probably the highest it ever was back then. And no one ever thinks, "these guys all played each other". Every game there was a great player playing at least one other great player, probably more. The competition was through the roof back then.
Brayden Wormer The game can and has changed because of 1 player. Most recently Curry. The 60's were overrated. Inflated stats from pace and possessions per game. For example Bill Russell numbers put in our league average out to a Ben Wallace type player. Not even to mention the fact players 50 years ago are no where near as fine tuned as today in terms of skill and athletic ability. As well as things like medical advances diets and training programs we have now. The 60's is easily the worst and most overrated in basketball.
Wyo no it's easily the most underrated. Just because there play styles were different doesn't mean they weren't as skilled. And Bill Russell would be like a taller Better defending Draymond Green. Russell's game is underrated, he ran the floor like a guard and was a very good passer for a big man even by today's standards. He also had a world class vertical leap. The stats may have been inflated but all of the great players stats were inflated, and considering how many great players there were, those inflated stats don't mean as much as they should. There is nothing you can say to prove that players today are more athletic. Take players like Wilt and Russell who could run like guards. Wilt was a track star at Kansas and is the strongest player ever. I'm sure other players weren't that far behind. Players to day might be athletic, probably more athletic, but that can't be proven.
Brayden Wormer The athletic aspect has been proven Google it or just use common knowledge. I agree players inflate stats but if you put Westbrook in the 60's with the pace possessions and minutes per game they had he will look like the best to ever do it. It's not fair stats wise to say who and how much they inflated when the eras games played out so differently. As far as Wilt there's always exceptions to the rule. LeBron is a genetic freak even compared to today's players. No one is and has come close to him physically. They aren't benchmarks for a eras athletic ability so no one was really close to Wilt as no one is with LeBron. Just look at some of the sets they run now compared to back then or even to the 90's it is way more complex now. The general IQ and understanding of the game has evolved. It's been 50 years. What they learned in their 20's kids now learn at 7. Too think the skill now isn't far superior is either plain ignorance or unwillingness to accept it.
*If this ant the truth lmfaoo Bill Russell gets credit for beating milkmen, custodians and part-time bus drivers*
Ask the players they said "if we don't have bill we get no rings"
Check out Shannons argument on Fox Sports Undisuted with Skip Bayless it illustrates the point brilliantly
chad hogan Dom's points are better because there's no basis.
chad hogan yea Shannon won in my opinion skip was trying opinion with facts. U just cant do that
Lebron vs Kobe matchup
Points: lebron-28.4 vs kobe-26.4
Rebounds: lebron-7.5 vs Kobe-5
Assists: lebron-7.3 vs Kobe-5.4
Steals: lebron-2 vs kobe- 1.1
FG%: lebron-47 vs kobe- 42
Wins: lebron-15 vs kobe-6
Lebron performed better than Kobe during matchup
Alex Lee except Lebron won 16 games against kobe
many games kobe past his prime
Victor Liang yea
In MY OPINION, rings are situational in a players legacy, what I really look at is finals MVPs, because that means you were the best player out of all the players on the biggest stage, and I also look at regular season MVPs (with a grain of salt), that being said MVPs are only for the regular season where some players like LeBron coast and rest. Then I look at player abilities and their flexibility to do things out of their comfort zone. Then there is the eye test. Then see what teammates he played or plays with.
So LeBron v Kobe, well, yes Kobe has 5 rings but only 2 finals MVPs, now 5 rings beats 3, but 3 finals MVPs beat 2, so Kobe gets the ring count, but LeBron gets my point there. Regular season MVPs, LeBron has 4 while Kobe has 1(ironically, I just talked about LeBron coasting) so again LeBron gets the point. Now their abilities, Kobe is a better scorer, better clutch shot taker, and he doesn't melt down, and a great defender if he really tries. LeBron is a better passer, better rebounder(due to his size and strength) again a great defender if he has to be, and just a better ALL AROUND player. Now I'm not saying the all around beats scoring or vice versa, but history has shown that the pure scorer has been better(Jordan, Kobe, Markelle Fultz over Lonzo cuz he scored a lot, not saying Lonzo is better). So point to Kobe cuz history. Now the eye test, Kobe is more fun to watch because of his ability to hit impossible shots, LeBron uses his godlike athletic build to bully people and rifle cross court passes, so point Kobe. Kobe played with the best player but LeBron had more good players around him, Kobe played with shaq who was better than Wade, Bosh, Irving, or Love individually, but LeBron has played with 4 good if not great players while Kobe has played with 2, gasol and Shaq. Point? There could be a whole other argument bout that, so you decide. I'll be honest, I'm leaning towards LeBron because I've grown up watching him so I'm biased, it's my opinion tho...
Wish all LeBron stans could be objective like this instead of just dickriding
Andrew Blackop W, but that goes for all fans really, instead of dickriding their favorite player, people should accept their weaknesses and just say that nobody is perfect
Freddy Huang I respect your opinion bro but in my opinion, I will go with kobe over lebron and the reason is, he was more competitive, has more heart in the game, willing to win with less talented teammates, his hardwork, mentality, and he was more skilled player than lebron. Lebron is gifted with his athleticism and his playmaking abilities but he lacks of heart in the game even though his great. It's just an opinion and I hope no one would argue with that.
John Gordon I hope you don't mind my opinion, yes kobe has more competitiveness and heart, but that doesn't mean LeBron doesn't, willing to win with less talented teammates, Kobe missed the playoffs many times with bad talent meanwhile LeBron was always considered a contender since he carried the Cavs in 2007 with no other talent, skill, they have different skills, neither one of them have more skill then the other, they just have skill in different areas. My opinion
Freddy Huang kobe missed the playoffs once but he came back next year. The saddest part of kobe when he was in his prime, is doesn't have a great teammates around him and if he only have great teammates in his prime, I'm sure not only 5 rings but maybe 6 or 7 rings.
But Bill Russel played through Jim Crow laws
I'm a huge Kobe fan and I think,by far and wide he's the better entertainer bc you could tell by the look in him eyes that he was gonna go out and kill you on the basketball floor. You rarely see that from LeBron, but I also think that LeBron is just has so many options bc he can easily drive to the paint or make a great play for a teammate that he tends to think the game though instead of feeling it through like Kobe could. Kobe is amazing at analyzing the game and working incredibly hard (you should hear some of the stories about him), but LeBron can't be going to the finals for the 8th straight time as a 32yr old man without extreme dedication either, even if he is in the eastern conference ppl can't forget that this is still the NBA, not your local park. The guys that get in are legitimately the best in the world still. I personally believe Kobe is the greatest scorer to exist (ik Kareem is great too, so it's probably a tie cuz he had that unstoppable shot) and it's bc he's got the most impressive scoring streaks in the modern era. The man averaged 40+ for a month.. On 4 different occasions! Plus he's got that 82 game and winning a championship with a broken finger!! He, like LeBron also had bad games tho, and he would try to shoot his way out of it bc scoring is really all he knows. LeBron has a greater skill set bc even when he doesn't score, he's a threat on defense, rebounding, and getting assists. LeBron makes his teammates better and that's why players love to play with him, lemme ask you would DWade and Bosh would really wanna play with a guy who wouldn't pass them the ball? LeBron can at times be a bit more boring to watch bc he usually makes the right plays, but at the end of the day that's what makes him the better player. I'd rather not compare their dunks tho bc they both have had some pretty insane dunks, LeBron is like a monster truck hanging on the rim and Kobe is really acrobatic, so when either makes the highlight reel, its like a gift from God. Even tho Kobe isn't as great a player, he's the better entertainer and honestly, I'm just lucky I got to see both these guys in their prime.
tbh, Lebron's finals record is shifty, he lead a team full of nobodies to the Finals, and had to go up against team way better than them, and Kobe had Shaq and other solid role players to win the finals with.
Greatest of All Time 07 cavs were the second worst team EVER to go to the finals
Greatest of All Time This Team was one of the worst in the NBA after lebron went to miami?
Greatest of All Time they were still heavily out matched either way
Patrick Bateman he left Cleveland because he wasn't winning a championship, and the Cavs weren't doing anything about it, what else was his supposed to do stay and lose? Also after leaving Miami he came back to Cleveland to help win them a championship, he wanted to do that along time ago. Then Cleveland had a nice starting line up but a mediocre bench. My point is that LeBron can lead a team full of scrubs and get to the finals but fail. He just needed some help to win. KD left a winning situation with a whole team built around him and Russ to a team who just went 73-9
Greatest of All Time the Cavs dropped from 65+ wins to 19 the season after LeBron left... And LeBron was literally THE ONLY roster change the Cavs made
2:55
Robert earned his nickname, "Big Shot Bob".
Probably the greatest role player of all time (possible exception for a few Russell teammates that are in the Hall that are NOT named Havlicek or Cousy).
Amazing Video! I am a Kobe Fan, but like how you show the tic for tack argument. Very true
I guess Bill Russell is the best player in the history of the NBA according to MJ
If Michael Jordan was drafted by the Clippers, he wouldn't have 6 rings.
TEAMS WIN CHAMPIONSHIPS. Never in the NBA has one player *singlehandedly* dragged a team to the finals and win. Scottie is a HoF, they needed a big man in Rodman, and had great shooters surrounding Mike. Stop acting like Jordan carried the Bulls his whole career. They made it to the second round of the playoffs the year without him.
James Burgess dirk 2011?
Delonte [W]est They had great role player and also had Jason Kidd
AI carried the 76ers to the finals although he didnt win
James Burgess except Hakeem's rockets
Mike had to go through that Bad Boy Pistons team, the prime time Celtics, and then had to go through the Cavs with Mark Price. He carried that sorry ass Chicago team to the playoffs every single year. From his rookie year actually. 1984-85 was his rookie season BTW. Appreciate that.
dom2k you made the argument that if you put Michael Jordan in the 60s, then he would win 11 rings as well. But if you put Lebron in the 90s in the Chicago Bulls then he would be 6-0 as well. And if you put Michael Jordan in Lebron's old team AT BEST, MJ would be 4-3. Cuz he would have lost to the 2014 Spurs, 2017 Warriors and 2007 Spurs near guaranteed.
We continue to appreciate your cool and collected thought mentality Dom2k. Every topic you post is always grasping, even for those with limited basketball knowledge. We will continue to follow your channel and can't wait for new content. #YES #YoungEntertainmentSpecailists
I am seriously addicted to your channel
Dom2k can you put Scalabrine in your greatest of all time pls
I think the biggest problem with the ring argument is it's interpretation. Obvi horry ain't better than Kobe or bron just cuz he got 7 rings, but when you're the main factor on a championship team like if you're someone like Kobe Durant bron mj, then rings start to matter. This is because your performance greatly affects the outcome of each game considering you're the teams main option. Whereas horry was only looked at in the clutch and sometimes not even then as he had to share the court with people like Kobe also. Basically, when you're a superstar player rings start to matter because you are the main reason you're team will win or lose one.
Henry Nadile Exactly.
Did you just mention Durant?! 😂😂please stop
If LeBron made the finals in 2009 like he was supposed to this wouldn't even be a debate.
yes it would be lol. Kobe was more motivated than ever and he also had Gasol and Phil Jackson as the coach. LeBron didn't have any help, plus he was 24. It's like saying Hakeem Olajuwon is better than Shaq because he spanked him in the finals. It's something to add to the argument but it's not the whole argument.
The cavs chocked that series away. ..LeBron played as well as he could but man he had trash around him .and the magic would not stop hitting 3s especially Lewis..Howard in game 6 was a man as well
It seems like a lot of people consider getting to the Finals and losing as worse than not getting to the Finals at all?
Kareem has six rings and ten finals appearances. That is better than six rings and six finals appearances. Because when you don't make the finals, that means you lost in an earlier round in the playoffs.
Bro I get so excited every time you upload
I would say beyond 2 rings, rings don't matter. Lebron has 2, Kobe has 2, Jordan had 2, but Lebron plays better than any other star in the current league or all time so he's the GOAT
To me it not about the rings it's about how the player won those rings.
Kobe fans say Lebron switched teams to win rings even though Kobe wanted out of L.A as well to do the same exact thing before Lebron
......... Cavs were out in the second round dumbass lmaoo
Kobe started his career with Eddie Jones nick van exel Byron Scott Horry shaq gets glen rice Ron Harper horrace grant lakers bring him Phil Jackson gasol fisher artest howard nash....but he still needs more help lol...la logic ..also kwame was not that bad in la...he just was no gasol. ...yes a bust as 1 pick but also is a solid role player ..neither was luke Walton..or smush parker....peole treat them like trash..
And remember before kobe was even drafted he bitched and complained until he was traded to the lakers on draft night
@@Red2Nicee They still made it in 07.
Great video, I literally just had this argument today and watching this video was just like watching the recap you're absolutely right in your observations and i was practically saying the same things. Keep up the great work i really enjoy your work #salute
His videos are best when you listen to them while doing other things . Nice vids Dom .
I hate when people say Lebron led the 2nd worst team to the finals. No it was the ABSOLUTE WORST TEAM EVER. Unlike Allen Iverson, Lebron didn't have a defensive player of the Year in Dikembe Mutombo (who was not old and washed up only 34 at that time) and they had the 6th man of the year in Aaron McKie. So in total the 2000-2001 76ers had the MVP, DPOTY, and the 6th man of the year all on the same team. Where Lebron had no other all star or award winner and led them to the finals where on the way they defeated a Detroit Pistons team who been to the ECF for the past like 4 years. So Lebron took the worst team ever to the finals Not Allen Iverson Period.
The Cavs on 07 were the 5th best defensive team in the league
Do you know what is UNFAIR, that you couldn't play zone defense in the 90's. If LeBron James or Kobe Bryant played then, they would have a lot more rings.
Yea and Kobe got a 3 peat during handchecking when it was allowed and zone defense
Ikr
Keep in mind, that LeBron went and formed the Big 3 in Miami because he couldn't beat the Celtics. The Celtics that Kobe and the Lakers beat in 7.
LeBron had to go join Wade and Bosh, to accomplish against an older Celtics team, what Kobe accomplished with Pau Gasol and a past his prime Artest.
Ask yourself this question, if LeBron James 2nd option was Pau Gasol, would he lead his team to 3 straight finals?
Keep in mind, this is the same LeBron James that complained that the Cavs didn't have enough when their third option Kevin Love put up 18/11 which was what Kobe's 2ND option Pau Gasol put up when they went to 3 straight finals.
And you got people still excusing LeBron saying he doesn't have enough. That says it all right there. Different mentality, different competitor, different animal. I'll pick Kobe over LeBron 10 out of 10 times. Kobe didn't need two superstars next to him, and even made it a mission to prove he could win championships without Shaq and he did, went again to three straight Finals and won 2 of them. Not only does 5 Rings beat 3 Rings, but 5-2 in the Finals beats 3-5 in the finals and 1-3 in your last 4. Especially when LeBron doesn't even have a winning record against the Rival teams and all you get are excuses. Facts of the matter is, he's 1-2 against the Spurs in the Finals, and he's 1-2 against the Warriors in the Finals. the two "Rival" teams he's had in the finals he has a losing record against. That kind of thing matters as well.
Exactly 😤✊️
LeBron took the 2007 Cavs to the finals. If you want to say he wouldn't have won his first two without Wade, Kobe wouldn't have won his first 3 without Shaq. Nobody wins by themselves.
I 100% agree with everything said in this video. You can't say rings don't matter at all and at the same time you can't only judge by rings. It feels like a lot of NBA fans can only have extremely 1-sided opinions. Such as the ring argument, as well as topics like comparing current players to people like Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain. Obviously they played in easier times so you can't only compare stats and awards, but at the same time you can't discredit their accomplishments simply because of their competition. I feel like a lot of NBA fans need to see the middle side of a lot of arguments.
Dom2K just leaped up the ranks of the NBA TH-camr elite for me with this video + his body of work.
If karl malone won 3 rings he would probably be a top 5 player of all time
I'd say ring do matter, but if you asked me to make a top 10 list of most important things on the greatest of all time lists, rings would be like 9 or 10. maybe even an honorable mention.
Jøséph Āntön how did you reach that conclusion with my "logic" when said rings would be one of the lower ends of the GOAT list requirements?
Kobe is more favored because there aren't any Mj Vs Kobe arguments
Love your videos Dom2k!
To win rings it's a combinations of things.
1) usually need a decent front office
2) A great player/players
3) decent/ good role player
4) good coach
5) good system for the team
I better not see a "Shaq was carrying Kbor" comment....
you don't wanna see the truth? 3 finals mvps vs 0...
BLOOD RED BLAZE Shaq even said Kobe was better than him
Kobe wouldn't have allowed his team to lose in 2011 vs Dallas?
He got SWEPT as the 2 time defending champ by the same team that year. 😅
Kobe also disappeared during the 2nd half of a game 7 vs the "mighty" Suns 😂
Also shot his team out the 2004 Finals, where the Lakers were the heavy favorites 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
2011 King? 2018 on the bench after JR's blunder? Continuous flopping? Constant complaints to referees when he doesn't get his way? Got a cast for a broken hand when it was bruised after getting swept in 2018?
Have you ever seen LeBron on the court?
With mj logic James Jones is better than 3/4 of the league
Bro I love your videos man iv been a fan for a couple of months and I always in the mood to watch your videos your so educated on this sport that you made me fall in love with basket ball I do so much research about it now I watch old games on TH-cam sadly I'm a new fan of the sport but you make it feel like I been watching for years thanks man keep up the great videos 👍🏽
Dom2k never change your intro
At this moment, my list for greatest of all time based on if I was putting a 2-squad team together (given some leeway, some positions are a little flexible):
1st team:
Magic
MJ
Lebron
Kareem
Wilt
2nd team:
Stockton
Kobe
Bird
Duncan
Russell.
my .02c
I been a Kobe fan for 10 years. Kobe is a better scorer, ball handler, and clutch performer. He had way more of a killer instinct than Lebron will ever have. But I have to swallow my pride. Lebron is the greater player. People fail to realize how great he really is. It's funny to me how people were calling him the goat, then he loses in the finals and all of a sudden he's not even on Kobe's level. But regardless of any of that, they're both all time greats
But if you check the stats lebron is better in the clutch, lmao😂😂😂
"If you check the stats" Yeah but how many times is LeBron relied on in the clutch, who has 36 game winners on their career? Kobe. Kobe was getting double teamed and shit, he always took the last shot. That was his job, and he was fine with it. He was usually the best player on his team, the only exception is when Shaq was on the Lakers. Kobe is far better in the clutch whether you like it or not. And I'm always gonna say Kobe is the better player, LeBron is the better athlete but Kobe is the better player.
Sarken there is no help for you, lmao. You are pathetic. The stats are the thruth and you still dispute the truth😂😂😂. Lebron is just the better athlete, hahahah. You basically are saying Lebron has no skill. Cry little kobe fan, cry...haha. These kobe fans just cant accept, that there are better players than Kobe. Even Durant is a better scorer and player than Kobe.
Sarken there you said it...kobe wasnt even the best Player on his damn Team. Hahahahahahahahahaaahhhhahah😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Big Trillin you're a worthless bronsexual. Lebron is not a clutch player he disappears in the 4th quarter
Where's case for goat series
Vid starts at 0:26
Terrific points. U could go on forever with this stuff so there is no actual answer. The best thing is to look at maybe players peak and talent or other stays beside rings to make the argument less political if all possible
Kobe vs Lebron isn't a question . The real debate is Lebron vs MJ
Everything Ballers LBJ will never reach Kobe's level of success
meezy buts lbj has passed him in ever stat but points which Lbj will soon do to so that means Lbj has more rebounds, assists, blocks, wins, fg%, 3% and will soon pass Kobe in points so there isn't an argument anymore for who is the better player it's Lbj
You're right, lebron isn't close to either Kobe or Jordan
Travis Blankenship
All kobe has on lebron is longevity
Kidd khamalah incorrect
I hate when people say " LeBron is only good because he is in the east". Like the reason the east is weak is because of LeBron people would rather go out west and play the warriors than run into LeBron in the playoffs
Jøséph Āntön Well I mean the Eastern Conference is weaker right now than it was when Mike played
+Jøséph “JA-8” Āntön the east was actually better than the west back then. Knicks, Magic, Hornets Pacers
except the warriors lol
@Jonathon Bravo
Dude, none of those teams even won a championship. When the East really was good with Bird's Celtics, Jordan's bulls kept getting swept/losing in 4 in a best of 5 series.
At least LeBron beat champions in the east like the big 3 celtics and the larry brown Pistons.
BLOOD RED BLAZE thats stupid comparison because Jordan didn’t have any good teamates at the time it was basically jordan vs 4 hall of famers so dont bring that up
Honestly, Larry Bird is better than all four of the players discussed in this video /:
Agreed.
Jordan is so overrated
Chim Ritchellsdick No, Jordan is for sure overrated, but still an all-time great. But Larry Bird better than all 4? Hell, he’s not even a top 5 all-time.
If I had to put numbers on what is most important on how players should be ranked I would do it like this (with 1 holding the most weight and then going down):
1. Finals MVPs
2. Rings
3. MVPs
4. All NBA appearances including Defense
5. Career stats
6. All star appearances
7. Records broken/made
Also compare their teams without them:
Jordan left for two years and the Bulls in 94 went 55-27, went to 7 with the Knicks and got robbed out of an NBA Finals appearance
LeBron left Cleveland, and both times they’ve been abysmal. You can’t really say the same about Miami because Bosh was out and they lost a piece or two as well, but they also were in the East, so their record made them look better than they were.
Not saying LeBron is better, but I think you can argue he’s overall more important to their successes and could take less talent farther
LBJ is obviously the better player. Kobe had a prim shaq and gasol to help him get his 5 rings LBJ on the other hand didnt have any body in there pim to dominate the NBA like kobe did u might say he played with D.wade, BOSH, and Kyrie but non of them could dominate like shaq. A good example of this is GS how there gonna dominate the NBA and win rings like kobe did and nobody can stop them until sone body wants out or there career is about to start ending.
Lebron will always win in general states, because his body never gives up, he plays most minutes and never gets injured, but ypu gotta look what did he accoumplish with that body ??? going 2 times to form superteams, 3 out of 8 (or 7 lets not count 2009), he also comes short at tje clutch like in game 6 2013, game 4 2015, game 3 2017, yea he got great states in those games but he screw it hard in the pivotal moments.
he also plays no D, because his body has still a big man on him, he doesnt have the agility to change direction, he even blows layups in the finals because of that.
for Kobe his averages will look waeker, but that is because of injuries and lack of relieble teammates + age, but in a period of time, he won 5 rings and played spectacular, while having the most 40+ and 50+ games with high efficiency, plays good defense, and delivers when needed (game 7 2010 he had a fucking broken finger and in injury), let alone he was robbed of MVP 2 times and 1 time of finals MVP.
MJ saying that lebron going to the heat was wrong is stupid. Even though it didn't work out, Kobe got Dwight Howard and Steve Nash on a team that was already very good. Lebron went to the heat who had Dwayne wade and no one else.
Chris Bosh. Don't do him like that. Ray Allen came later but still
People who choose LeBron over Kobe
- Shannon LeSharpe, Nick Wright, Collin Cowherd, Jason Fatlock
- Fans who started watching after 2011
People who choose Kobe over LeBron
- Michael Jordan "GOAT"
- Kareem Abdul Jabar, Larry Bird, Dr.J, Reggie Miller, Charles Barkley, Shaq, Scottie Pippen
- Dwayne Wade, Tracy McGrady, Allen Iverson, Kevin Durant, Stephen Jackson, Damian Lillard,
Andrew Wiggins, Ron Artest, Paul George, Tayshaun Prince ETC.
I think I'll agree with the opinion of NBA legends or people who actually played over some kid who looked up some stats on ESPN... The best athletes don't care about stats. You play sports to win, not for stats.
Love your videos and your viewpoint. Thanks for sharing
Just my opinion but I think Kobe is better than LeBron
When Lebron gets at least 5 rings before the end of is career. There should be no arguement. Not that there's any argument now.
Rings are just part of it, jordan never lost a finals. Lebron lost 5 about to be 6. Jordan is the goat nuff said
Man,you'll probably not going to see this comment,but you are by far the best NBA youtuber and maybe my favourite youtuber in general.I've learned a whole lot about the NBA history from you and i love that you always go in depth,always being objective and not taking sides or hating on players/teams.
I look forward to the Kobe vs LeBron vid you hinted on.
Keep up the good work!
Yessss that goat list is gonna be lit when do you think it'll be out by
According to me, Lebron is better than Kobe. Both are legendary, but Lebron is better. Please don't kill me Laker Nation
According to me, Gintama is better than DBZ
Ritvik Dutta why do you feel that way tho?
Jøséph Āntön he's the better all around player
Mj>lbj>kb .....end of story..
kobe isnt even.the greatest laker?😆😆😆 lebron greatest cav and heat player ever😆😆
kobe case for goat and mike case for goat (cant make a bronsexual case for goat his career isnt done yet)
like so dom can see
Tell me how Kobe is better without mentioning "mamba mentality" or rings, ill wait
Kobe’s the better scorer, defender, team leader, etc. Watch some prime Kobe highlights, then watch some prime Lebron highlights.
Russell Westbeast, Triple Double Machine yeah then look at all of Kobe’s stats than LeBrons and LeBron still got like 5-7 years left only thing Kobe will have more is rings and everyone gets the ring on a team when you get carried by shaq that’s why he only got 2 finals MVP
"Big Shot Rob" was so smooth ‼️🤦♂️
To be real, Dom u spit complete facts like always this was another perfect video. Also to be honest these guys are uncomparable and yes they're compared bc people think that they're fighting for who's the greatest and I get that but they're complete polar opposites and idk why people spend so much time arguing over something so opinionated. Instead why can't we stop hating and criticizing Bron and Kobe and just admire them. Then again videos like this one wouldn't have been created if they were just admired so tbh its all fucked I hope all of you have lots of fun debating while I look at what all of you think lmao
First off dom2k let me start by saying, I'm pretty sure Michael didn't mean to use only the ring argument 100% he thought about alot of things that Kobe has an advantage over LeBron but the end of it was Kobe has 5 LeBron has 3. And for u stupid people out there who say "well Russell's better than u Jordan." No lol no he isn't it's not only about the amount of rings it's how u won them when u won against who, a lot into consideration. Now, It's got to be Kobe, I really can argue for hours on who's better because I love a good argument but I think mentality and scoring ability raps this argument up. That guy is is just the clutchest player ever. He could score 50 points a game if his team needed it. I'm pretty sure he scored like 1400 pts in like 3 months or something like that in 05or maybe 06. In my opinion MJ is the goat but Kobe is the boat ( best of all time) as in most skilled, it's probably Kobe Hakeem and MJ for best ever but MJ or Kareem r the best and most accomplished. Kobe worked so hard to perfect his game and he was waiting for the big moments LeBron on the other hand doesn't like big moments and tends to pass for last shot( which is great) my point is LeBron needs a closer Kobe is the closer. Kobes was so motivated and passionate for the game that he played with broken fingers and all kinds of injuries just so his team could get the win not "a flu" broken fingers dammit. Much respect to LeBron, 100% top 10-7. By the way great channel really. Love it.
Itamar Shapira Exactly.
Bron>Kobe
#FAX
Grandmaster Bushido Brown How?
Randy Orton #Opinions
fake news
In my opinion lebron is better if I had to draft either lebron or Kobe lbj wins every day cuz Kobe may be better individually but lebron is still great athletic and makes everybody around him better
Dom 2K cleaned it up
Anyone who watched NBA in the 90's would choose Kobe
Wow
Kareem > Jordan
*lmfaoo Bill Russell won his rings by beating a bunch of custodians, plumbers and off-duty firefighters lmao those rings don't count 😂😂😂*
Javian Johnson Word 😂😂😂
Javian Johnson You do know the other teams like the Lakers had as much talent as the Celtics?
Kobe Bryant the lakers had 6 HOFs? Name them
You should check out "Why bill russell is the most disrespected nba player of all time"
Don't say the era was weak, it wasn't. Now you wanna talk about parity, you got a point there.
Lets see if lebron drops 60 when he retires🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
•kylo's- retros• we ain't see kobe drop 25 points his first game
•kylo's- retros• Kobe took like 50 shots
•kylo's- retros• Kobe averages about 2 less points over all of his career, playoffs he has less too, also finals but yeah apparently one game matters? Haha
•kylo's- retros• lebron fans be like :"nah he gonna get 101
He already did that, when he was in miami. You didn't know?
That was a point well made sir.
i got to say great video personal i rank using 1/3 stats (using a self made stat rubric) 1/3 personal accomplishments ( mvp, fmvp,etc) 1/3 team accomplishments(rings, finals record, overall record ect)
I don't get why this is an argument ... LeBron is better than kobe for so many reasons .. face the facts. Kobe cant led a team to the playoffs by himself like LeBron did. Lebron never had great centers like kobe. Lebron average 25 5 n 5 in his rookie season. played with triple doubles throughout his career and stood CONSISTENT !! Dude had a triple double in the finals against okc. Ppl say kobe is a better shooter yet LeBron averages a higher percentage in shooting( throughout career).. kobe is more clutch then LeBron yet he missed more shots in the clutch then he made... these are facts not opinion. You can put LeBron on any team and they can make it to playoffs , you cant say the same about kobe .... and to me this is one of the biggest things that separate one from the other... LeBron does so much more on the court. If both players at there prime were free agents ... more teams would try to get LeBron. ALmost every category LeBron is better and ppl still try to agrue .. I don't get it . Style over substance !
I don't see why any forward would need a great center versus a guard but okay 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️
Your argument is flawed one LeBron didn't avg 25 it was 20ppg lol. Two LeBron can take any team to the playoffs is kinda true you really think he'd dominate in the West?? Put Kobe in the East he'd make the conference finals almost every year
Yes you are right , it was 20 that's my bad. Lebron will dominate with any team , any conference. I'm not saying because of "fanboying" Im saying it because his style of play benefits the team. Kobe is a good player, but kobe needs a good team WITH a good center to get far, lebron has took a average team to the finals.
The east had some monster squads Lebron had to go through. Celtics and Pistons are just a few examples.
KING LOS That's a lie he would not dominate on any team in any conference the Spurs and Warriors have his number and the Rockets aren't a pushover. Celtics were good for about 2-4yrs total 08,09,2010,2012 after that they pretty much fell off. The Pistons were good and LeBron never beat them until they started falling apart. LeBron play style is predictable all he can do is drive and kick. LeBron can't dominate with a true big man because he needs shooters to open up driving lanes example Bosh and Love he turned two good post player's into catch and shoot player's to space the floor. LeBron is great no doubt but he isn't dominating the West
Each their own opinion , I'm just saying I would rather play with someone who shoots close to 50% and makes their teammates better instead of someone who chuck bricks.
Kobe is overrated. People who think Kobe > lebron don't watch basketball
Lelongy wtf
I belive Kobe is better than Lebron because Lebron still have at least 5-7 more years to play in the leauge. The problem is, If Lebron have a case like Kobe or Shaq (Terrible injury or become a role player for young star) then may be at the end of his career, he won't be better than Kobe. But If he can stay healthy and can still dominate the game at the end of his career, he'll be better than MJ.
Lebron>kobe
I think that the biggest problem with using the rings argument against lebron specifically is that it insinuates that it's Lebron's fault that he only has 3 rings and has 5 losses in the finals. besides 2011, he's put up great numbers in the finals. He just never has had the supporting cast to win.
2007: 22/7/6.8 (led the entire playoffs in scoring, assists, and WS)
2014: 28.2/7.8/4 (leaps and bounds ahead of anyone on the spurs. their highest scorer was parker with 18 ppg)
2015: 35.8/13.3/8.8 (almost averaged a triple double in this one, put up 32 points and 18 rebounds in the elimination game)
2017: 33.6/12/10 along with 1.4 steals and 1.0 blocks, put up 41 points in game 5
I believe the "must have a ring to have an important legacy" is ruining the NBA and forcing players to join super teams
All i got to say is 81 points. Period!!! End of discusion
Clorox Bleach if thats your point then wilt chamberlain is the greatest player of all time
Rayshaun Hook Kobe still beats Wilt. He has taken less shots to reach 81pts. While Wilt needs to rely on free throws to reach 100.
100 > 81 tho
Rayshaun Hook yea against no talent
You are Clorox bleach everything you say is a meme you don't get an opinion
The ring argument dumb LeBron is clearly the better player but Kobe had the mentality of a killer 5-3 is a dumb argunent bcuz Kobe can't carry a team to the finals LeBron can if anything LeBron is easily the most skilled player ever
ima Legend What? He didn't carry a team? are you serious? What about when kobe carry a team to 3 straight finals with less talented teammates? I give lebron his props for the 2007 but in miami, he has full of great players than kobe's til now. The spurs beat the miami even duncan was already out of his prime that kobe use to beat the spurs in the playoffs when duncan was in his prime and that year spurs beat the miami, I expected that miami will win because they have great players. And remember shaq was not able to win without kobe and he admitted that kobe was the best player in 2001. Did you see his performance in playoffs while being 22 years old? The west teams that time was clearly better than east that they face in finals so they give the ball to shaq in finals coz the east centers was not able to guard shaq.
ima Legend And kobe was clearly more skilled player bro. Lebron was gifted with his athleticism and playmaking abilities.
I would like to see Kobe win 7 straight east titles...doubt he could do it with the 2014-2017 cavs ...or the 2007 cavs
Prime Kobe would beat Prime Lebron
Nah
Maxwell Bado.... two words, eighty one
Clorox Bleach oh ya and Devin Booker scored 70 points and MY never did so Devin Booker is the goat...🤐🤐 see how your logic is flawed?
Clorox Bleach MJ*
Flappy Nugget 7... i like Booker and he could be. And he could surpass Lebron. Time will tell. Now Lebron in the other hand. Too Soft.
Lol, I don't think the argument between Kobe and LeBron is close. LeBron has passed Kobe years ago.
I don't think the amount of rings should matter but rather the magnitude of each ring.
The analysis is spot on. Rings are neither the only measure of a player's value, nor are they irrelevant. The truth is in the middle, especially when comparing the leaders of the teams that made it to the finals. The Kobe vs Bron argument particularly could go on for days cause even some stats can lie. My pick is Kobe but I'm not sure if that will stay till LBJ retires. Let's appreciate the King while he's still around.